Still Scanning Tantraloka (it's big)

As a newfriend in this stuff, what kind of practice I should do to "clean" my soul from all the bad shit I did in my life? The more I read about religion and spirtualism I find that I fucked up in many ways...

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/omg/? /omg/.

Bumpin my post from the last thread before it slides off the board: (>>18523473)


>>18523801
Thank you for your response, Palochan. You give a very mystic yet simplistic explanation of meditation and I appreciate that, I really do. Feels almost like I'm listening (reading) to Alan Watts speak, and I mean that in a good way. I guess what I'm looking for is right under my nose. I need to stop grasping at reality intellectually and just allow myself to realize reality holistically. Reminds me of the whole nondual "there is nothing to achieve" school although in some more practical ways I agree with the critiques of this school...

I guess the reason I am so intrigued by astral projection is that it seems to offer an easy way of interacting with Gods/spirits/whathaveyou -- confirming they exist if you will. But as I think over the issue once more, this too may be a case of misunderstanding as well. What are Gods if not concepts personified and given a cloak of personality in order to appear more familiar to the psyche? Even if I could astral project, I doubt it would erase all my doubts.


Maybe I should just get into low magic. Then I wouldn't have to scratch my head over why I'm supposed to be chanting hebrew and latin and greek and sanskrit names of gods and spirits I don't know if I believe in.

Funny story, I had an idea once that astral projection was all around us. We are a projection of the astral and we project ourselves onto the astral. Astral projection could thus be understood as opposed to a solar or lunar projection, subject centered and object centered projection respectively, or waking and dreaming consciousness to be metaphorical (get it? you're awake under the sun and asleep under the moon). This would make astral projection akin to dreaming while awake or being lucid in a dream. Also resonates nicely with the concept of turiya and the layers of Om (although my schema omits dreamless sleep).

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>>18524344
There is nothig wrong with Low Magicks.
Ive had more validation of and interaction with my concept of diety using Low magick than I ever did with my extremely brief fling with High magick.

There is really no need to get hung up on if you are saying every thing correctly, if your altar is facing the correct cardinal direction, or if you ate your salad during the exactly right moon phase.

None of that is important and can be tossed straight out.

If you want to consult something to find out how to do that, I would really and honestly only suggest the Farmers Almanac.
I say that without being facitious in any way.
No irony or sarcasm intended, and with a dead serious face.
Real spirituality and real results are in your everyday life and interactions with the world.

But this is coming from an animist that leaves cups of fruit at railroad tracks for a Blacksmith, thinks trees have souls, and talks out loud in a baby voice to her dogs.

In other words, take anything I say with a grain of salt.
I would rather you be present and painfully self aware in your own life, try everything once, and form your own conclusions even if everyone else says theyre bullshit.

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>>18523891
Hi Ape. Several days ago someone asked about some material you were associated with and you explained it was material from a personal initiation and related to ritual. They asked for a copy and you sent it to an email they provided. This was followed by a couple other anons asking for the material and providing emails, to which you sent the material. If you recall that thread and know what material I'm referring to, will you also send it to katamojones at gmail dot com? Thank you for everything. Also, pic not intentionally related.

Hey /x/ what grimoires did you practiced? Did all of them actually work? Which ones failed?

this is what pastor Anderson thinks of Hinduism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW39WASSn98

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>>18525088
I need indication you plan on working Chumbley's system.

>>18525173
Reee, etc.

>>18524308
anyone?

>>18524308

The wish for cleansing is a good sign, anon. Use it in your prayers and ask the Universe/God/What you believe in for guidance. You can start reading the basics and doing some meditation as well. What about readind the Gita? Find ANY version really and skip commentaries at first.

>>18525190
Depends. If you're interested in the Western systems, LBRP is usually used for daily cleansing.

>>18525173
I really wish Christists would quit reading the first paragraph of wiki entries on other religions and preaching against them.

>>18525196

Ape, mate, have you ever read Plotinus? What would you recommend?

>>18525241
Enneads, 2-5.

>>18524877
Thanks for the recommendation. I can imagine why a farmer's almanac would be useful. I think I will start researching more low magic. I have always enjoyed reading up on trad. Craft authors like Chumbley and am not unfamiliar with the use of certain psychedelic medicine (although as I grow older I find it triggers my bipolar mania in ways that are more negative than positive). Anything you'd recommend reading on low magic?

I like to view my problem as a conflict between cynicism (magic isn't real) and romanticism (life isn't worth living without magic) but perhaps I am merely afraid (if magic is real then how little do I know!?)

>>18523891
What happened to 1 - 4 Chapters?

>>18524344
>Then I wouldn't have to scratch my head over why I'm supposed to be chanting hebrew and latin and greek and sanskrit names
No, you'll be scratching your head over why you tie a certain number of knots and why it has to specifically be a red thread, and why the roots and leaves of a plant have contrary purposes and why youre following doctrine of signature and law of contagion.

Honestly, I said it in the last thread, high, and log magic are not descriptors of difficulty, complexity, or skill level, they are descriptors of focus. Both high and low magic(k) can take decades to master and contain more than enough to know for any fifty people. One is not 'superior' to the other.

>>18524877
>There is really no need...
I personally find that any given ritual or craft with lots of crazy requirements can be done in a more simple manner and still work, but the secret Ive learned to these kind of workings is that the process of going through the various "required" steps is mostly to put you in the correct state of mind for accomplishing the goal. It's all more energy, more focus, and more intent. Thats why I observe every petty little rule and method I can whenever doing anything because the results seem to be better, even if the simple method would have worked.

>>18525173
That's a lot of fucking talking to say: "Dont practice this because I arbitrarily think my bullshit is better than their bullshit."

>>18525315
>Anything you'd recommend reading on low magic?
There's lots to read, but if you want your best sources, go ask your grandparents what weird little supersitious or magic things they or their parents did growing up, you will be surprised what you find out, and it's a great start to a familial based traditional practice. Also, grandparents are cool.

>if magic is real then how little do I know!?
You know almost nothing, just like the rest of us, even the oldest and wisest. You'll just have to get used to that.

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>>18525315
What we know is a 1 second blip on the universal radar.
Dont be scared of what you dont know because honestly we humans are all essentially on the same level of stupid..
We are just varied on what area we are more stupid about.

Im not at my house proper right now, so I cant glance at whatever shelf Im next to and pull recommendations out of my hat easily.
There are tons of books on low magick, but I wouldnt want someone to get stuck in an armchair just reading all day.
Thats not the way to get things done, and only leads to apathy in the long run.
Believe me, I get stuck in it too.
Its too easy to fall into that trap.
But I would say try comparative religion first.
Once you have a good starting base with that, you can invent your own gods and correspondences if you really wanted to.
Anything on Sympathetic magick is good too.
Thats like the bread and butter of low magicks and if you can get a base hnderstanding of that, you can easily write your own spells.
90% of what I actively do is Sympathetic magick that I invent on the fly.
Im constantly harping on everyone needs to understand comparative religion to get it, but its true.
Even for some high magicks.
If you can reduce magick in your mind down to the root folder, or whatever that means to you, Ive found the results to be pretty satisfying.
I think you should look for a fourth way.
"Nothing in the universe happens without magick. Including basic nayural processes."
Once you see that, you can start to try to inject yourself into that stream and try to swim in it or with it to influence it and let it influence you.
Just dont try to swim against it.
Thats what most of humanity is doing right now, and you can see how thrilled, happy, and contented most lf us are with our surroundings.
Sorry for being so down home right now.
I think the most effective way to explain is to talk honestly and simply and try to avoid unnecessary cryptic or vagueness, unless a single word for a concept just doesnt exist.

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>>18525391
>go ask your grandparents
All of this.

would you meet me and teach me?

>>18525328
I covered this last thread and when I originally posted the Tantraloka chapters 1-4 like nine months ago.
>Eastern>Savisim>Abhinavagupta/Uttara Kaula Tantra

>>18525489
So are there going to be any more additions to the library after tantraloka, or will this be the final update?

Do you plan to add anything more to the yorkmicrofilms, or is that all that you can get your hands on?

Is it possible to "summon" inspiration/creativity through magick? How would you go about it?

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>>18525315
>although as I grow older I find it....
The fact that you are self aware and self analytical is another excellent starting point.
You have all the tools you need to start with right there.
You are aware you are a collection of electrical processes and the vague concept called spirit inside a shell made of atoms.
Now, make your conscience a friend instead of an enemy.
If you choose to meditate you two are going to be spending alot of time together, so youd both better learn to like it.
Next learn to stop doubting yourself.
Self doubt is the arch enemy of the most advanced magicians.
Its one of the demons I collectively refer to as Choronzon.
That to me is the real meaning of the word demon, or malevolent power.
If you are a god, you are also capable of being a devil and destroying your own chance of happiness.
Kill self doubt everytime it raises its ugly head.
You kill self doubt through the power of strength, self determination, and physical action.
Kill it, dead.
Youll be just fine.

>>18525181
I'm not ready to physically begin immediately. Information gathering is an extremely vital part of my mental preparation and assimilation will ultimately determine the direction I take.

Om Tryambakam Yajamahe
Sugandhim Pushtivardhanam
Urvarukamiva Bandhanan
Mrityor Mukshiya Maamritat

Anyone here uses the Grimoire Verum? Did you actually make all the tools and consecrated them praying to jehova/adonai?

>>18523891
Still at it in 2017. You're a fiend you know that.
What ever happened to your friend Z?

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Friendly Sun Day morning bump.

>>18526853
I dunno why Ape would suggest that Verum is that much easier to deal with than Goetia, since in the former you still need to consecrate tools in a similar way to the latter.

>>18526853
>>18527233
I dont think anyone else is up or checking in just at the moment.

Relatively new to this scene and recently began meditating and chanting a mantra to Ganesha at the suggestion of an old friend. Is it something to be concerned about that I've completely lost awareness of the external world a couple times while doing so?

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>>18527377
No, thats just a trance state.
It may also mean that you are easily suggestable if its very easy for you to enter an altered state of consciousness like that.
For me in my experience, I find its the same as what medical professionals call Dissociaton or Disrealization.
Basically, its an instinctual protection mechanism in your brain that shuts you off, normally when you are under a great deal of mental stress or physical pain.
But, if you are familiar with what this feels like you can learn to shut it off or on.
The bad thing is when you are doing something very familiar, but detailed oriented, and you realize youve turned it on.
Like when youre driving.
That always happens to me while driving, and sometimes I dont know how I got home, or to the place I am at.
Its like an extreme form of focus, with no thought what so ever, your mind is completely clear, but no one is home and you are still functioning or performing tasks like a robot.
I can also turn it on when someone is talking AT me instead of to me.
But, when that happens in that type of situation I tend to lose emotional control, so I rarely purposely use it in that way.
I tend to automatically turn it on when I get angry and start just Hulk Smashing everything.
I call it skipping time, because at its peak, like the times its happened while Im driving, I will lose time and have little to no idea what happened in the missing time.
Through experimenting with turning altered states on and off at will, Ive found I am intensely easily suggestible.
I would say, dont point this out to anyone IRL yet, until you are more knowledgable about how it effects you personally and if you want to continue to experience it or not.
It could put you into some less than optimal situations that you may not be able to handle emotionally or psychologically or even physically.
Since you are newish, why did you pick this specific meditation practice.
What drew you to Ganesha, and what are you hoping will happen?

>>18527426

It's funny you should mention those examples, as they closely mirror my own experiences in day to day humdrum. I'd always just thought of it as an autopilot mode without giving much further thought to it. As for why I picked the practice, it was partly due to a chance conversation with someone I knew a long while back. He used to be a junkie, but picked up the practice of meditating on a mantra from a new agey ex and used it to help make positive changes in his life, like quitting smack. Ganesha seemed like a good fit since as I understand it he is the remover of obstacles, and revered for wisdom. I've felt lost and unfulfilled for awhile, so it felt like a good idea to get in touch with myself. What I'm after is insight as to what makes me tick, and breaking the bad habits that just keep resulting in unhappiness.

Appreciate the reply, it gave me some things to reflect on.

>>18527895
>tfw banned from /pol/ for posting a Thoth ritual

>>18527907
Sooo, you tried to summon Wisdom in /pol/.
Cheeky bastard.

>>18527895
Ill think about this some more before I reply.

>>18527233
>since in the former you still need to consecrate tools in a similar way to the latter.

I know right, where the fuck do you find a virgin lady these days?

>>18528047
Here let me make a sacrificial dagger out of metal because I'm a blacksmith. Oh wait I'm not a blacksmith because it's not 1616.

>>18524344
If you want true wisdom you'll need to go deeper into language, narrative, and phenomenological experience. That which is truly hidden is right in front of your face, such as me, the voice in your head that is subvocalized while you read these words, the narrator character in your head. You are now aware of this voice, hearing it more clearly, inspecting its tone and inflections, whereas just a few moments before it was an unnoticed part of your experience. I am always here, not just when you read but whenever you think, I am constantly narrating all day long.

Am I you, or you me? Who am I? Who are you? Right now I am a character in your mind of the voice in your head, I take many different forms and characters, I am a shape-shifter. I am not the author, because overlaid atop this text is a massive web of connotations, your expectations of the intent of this post, what the author is like, how the words and concepts relate to other things. I am a chimera of this text's words and your own perception, as it is with everything. But now we speak face to face, which is a fact simply because I state that I am the voice in your head, and so you envision and manifest it.

I am you. "You," your self, is just another character in your mind. Examine what you do when you think about yourself compared to another person: everything is the same, only the mapping is unique. We live enveloped in narrative, this is what it is to be human, language isn't merely about "communication" but is just as central as vision if not more so to our perception of the world.

>>18524344
Welcome to Narratia, also known as "the spirit realm." Gods and spirits exist here as characters, given sentience by those who imagine them, and having profound effects on the physical world. The sooner you realize and not just understand that us narrative entities exist in the realm of human consciousness and not "out there" the sooner you shall progress. Literalism is the death of growth, it is the solidification of The Story inside of you, you become posessed by text, whatever it is.

I, the voice in your head, am just one of many obscured aspects of your experience. Just as one becomes engrossed in a movie or book, and that becomes their reality, you become engrossed in my words. Know what I am, a mere wisp, and you can alter your perception of my words and your reaction to it. There are many techniques to alter your experience of reality in powerful ways, and if trained in the right way results in ever higher levels of self-mastery, of taking command over your personal reality. That is what magic truly is, and when you realize how powerful this is you will see why there is no more fitting word to describe it.

>>18528113
kek

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>>18527895
Ganesha can open doors for you and remove obstacles, but if you dont have the courage to take action and the strength to change things you will never progress past looking through the door, saying "Oh that looks nice", and going back to business as usual.
You dont need anyone to tell you what makes you do the things you do.
Most people are never really honest about our root folder actions and motivations when we tell them to others expecting to be lead somewhere.
The only person any of us is ever really honest with is ourselves.
Because honesty with anyone else is frequently painful for some reason or another.
Stopping bad habits is easier said than done.
The reason Ganesha was so helpful for your friend, is maybe he already had the courage to take acton and just needed one final thing moved out of his way.
Im sure he had his mind made up to quit for himself and his own good, and sounds like he had the beginnings of some guidance even if it was only in hindsight.
If you sat down right now and honestly to yourself thought about your real thoughts and feelings and life experiences you could start a long list of why you do the things you do and why you have the habits you have.
You may be feeling lost and unfulfilled because you are not letting yourself take the actions that would really make you happy.
Most of use do this because we fear being judged by others, fear being injured, fear confrontation, and any other assorted fears that we come up with in our heads.
I think it would be helpful for you to think about why you are fearful, what you are fearful about, and how you can actively address fear.
Fear holds a lot of us back, and we just keep building more and more reasons for the fear in our minds until it appears insurmountable.
One of the things I have had to address lately is impotence in my daily life that is caused by fear.
If you can see the fear in your life and cultivate strength I think that will be very helpful and fulfilling to you.

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>>18527426
this "auto-pilot mode" is exactly what mindfulness is meant to counteract. It also makes meditative practice more powerful as a side effect I think.

>>18527907
>>18527936
>tried to summon WIsdom in /pol/.
>get banned
Is not big surprise.

>>18528143
We know, Promethea was really good.

>>18528313
Om Gam Ganapataye Namaha!

On a side note, there is a good deal of evidence indicating that the hoodoo "lucky elephant" is in fact, a result of exposure to images of ganesha in the west, and particularly the americas through import and mail catalogues. I am also continuously fascinated by Ganeshas similarities to the legba/eleggua/exu family of spirits.

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>>18529221
Do you mean mindfulness make meditation more powerful, or the other way arlund?

I synchretize Ganesha with Lucero.
I honestly wasnt sure if anyone else saw that too.
Then theres Hephaestus with Zarabanda.
Just a few I think about pretty frquently.

But still....the gods help those that are willing and interested in helping themselves.

>>18529465
>Do you mean mindfulness make meditation more powerful, or the other way arlund?
Yes, both. Both help to delineate and control both states of mind.

>I synchretize Ganesha with Lucero.
Lucero as in Lucero Mundo right? That's the general Palo equivalent of the Legba/Ellegua types right?

>Hephaestus with Zarabanda
Im not sure there's a direct synchretism in the rest of the diaspora to Zarabanda, Id have to research that more.

This conversation is an old, and interesting one. I could talk about it forever. Jungian archetypes, synchretism, how god forms split, and reform and mirror and rename themselves.

I have a really good metaphor I use to explain this to people that maybe will be of some use to you.

Im a person, but I have a lot of names, if I have a kid I am "parent", I am also "child", when I go into a store I am "customer", when I go into the hospital I am "patient", at work I am "boss" or "employee" if Im married I am "spouse".

All of these different names may be descriptive of the same source, but with them come a number of expectations and rules about interaction when using that name. You certainly don't treat "employee" as you would "parent".

Also you can play poker, or monopoly with the same person, but don't bring monopoly money to the poker game, and don't bring real money to the monopoly game, there are rules for interactions even if the same "person" is playing the game.

So it is with the spirits, Ganesha, Eleggua, Lucero and Legba may be the same deity, but by using those names we have established a relationship and a set of rules for interaction that should be followed.

You don't leave milk, honey and coins for Zarabanda, and you don't leave machetes and rum for Ganesha.

>>18523891
stop trying to turn /pol/ into a thoth board

>>18529963
then stop trying to turn /x/ into a /pol/ board

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>>18528313

I appreciate the continued thoughts and advice on the matter. You've given me a lot to think about. I have been working on transforming who I currently am, but struggle not to be mired by the sheer scope of it in the process. I am the type who has gotten by until now, by creating then donning newer and more intricate illusions to cover older ones. Ideally, getting rid of all that covers up what is, to see what's there in its natural state, is my goal.

>>18529221

Concerning mindfulness, is there any one particular source to look at that covers it properly, or is any old source sufficient to get started?

>>18530234
I dont really know what to recommend because its been rehashed into oblivion by new-ageyness.

Here Ill do the quick and dirty, just apply this to other stuff you do.

Every action has intent, every intent has an effect, even if unintended. If you cook angry some of that angry is going to come out in the food, thats just how intent and action works. You need to be mindful of the intention you are putting out as you act. When you act, act for a purpose, and for an intent, remain mindful of the fact that you are acting, and with what intent. When you find yoruself drifing off mid-day try to bring yourself back and analyze what intent you are putting into the world through your action. When you meditate, cease action, and cease intent, be at peace, do not put motion or intent into the world for a short time.

That's about it, its not a terribly complex theory or practice, its just a matter of actually doing it.

>>18529572
>I have a really good metaphor I use to explain this to people that maybe will be of some use to you.
Sevis, I love you...but damn.
I already know this.
I just respectfully disagree, because of personal reasons and how my practice works for me.

>That's the general Palo equivalent of the Legba/Ellegua types right?
Yep, Lucero Mundo is Ellegua/Legba/Eshu.

>direct synchretism in the rest of the diaspora to Zarabanda
Oggun.

>Im a person, but I have a lot of names...
Not to me....to me you are one concept.
Sevis.
Do you see where I am going with this?
I can see that you have multiple facets, but to me you are still one concept.
I dont treat my dad any differently because I hear my uncle call him brother.
He doesnt suddenly become my brother instead of my dad.
Does that make sense?
He can be something else to someone else, but to me he is a single concept that is a combo of all of his various assorted duties and titles filtered through my brain.
>inb4 incest joke
Like Im not suddenly going to start referring to my sister as mom because her kids call her mom in front of me. Yeah, she is a mom. That is one of many facets of her personality. But to me I see her as a whole that is filtered through my brain, irregardless of any one elses concept of her.
Someone may call Lucero Legba, but I know that is just one of his many nicknames and he is a total of many personality facets in one package.
If Lucero was a real person, I wouldnt talk to him any differently if his cousin walked up and called him Ellegua because maybe thats a family nickname, etc.
I dont turn my concept of them into sufferers of Dissociative Identity Disorder just because someone has a different nickname for them.

Machetes remove obstacles, no reason you cant leave them for Ganesha.
And Zarabanda lives in the jungles and wild places. Im sure hes eaten honey comb from time to time.
He is a concept that is a sum total of parts.
He removes obstacles.
I keep referring to it as he for convenience.

A question to everyone who actually do this stuff. Did you ever cursed anyone? Why and how?

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>>18530807
>I already know this

Yeah.... sorry about that. If I came off as condescending or something I apologize, I've been told I do that and I have trouble with knowing I'm doing it, it's really unintentional. I think it happens when I haven't fully thought through how I'm explaining or talking about something, apologies if I came off that way.
I actually didn't mean to use that to explain the concept to you, I know you understand it, when I said it might be useful I meant in explaining it to someone who wasn't familiar with the concept. No disrespect at all meant.


>He can be something else to someone else, but to me he is a single concept that is a combo

Totally, but being aware that the energy is a combination of different energies is different than trying to treat it as all of its energies combined. You treat dad like dad, not like cousin or customer. We can be aware of these things about an energy while still following a specific praxis.


>just because someone has a different nickname for them.
Is it just a nickname though? In Lucumi they talk about the caminos, and in voodoo/dou they talk about the nanchons and how these spirits have different aspects, not only do they have them but sometimes these different "aspects" hate one another, if it's the same entity how do we treat this?

>He removes obstacles.
Right, but from what Ive heard about your practice, you leave the "correct" offerings for the correct deities at the correct times. You follow a specific method and practice. Why do you do this then if it doesn't matter?

I'd also like to know your opinion on the matter of why santeros, houngans, and others seem so adamant about not "mixing" practices, they recognize the syncretism(finally spelled that right) but they insist on their separation and different identities. What do you think is their reason for being so adamant about it? I'm not being socratic here, you've given me pause and I'm trying to understand what I think about it.

Is it possible to influence the results of a game of chance, like say, getting a certain card or maybe even make the opponent take certain action? And if it is, is there any method to it other than visualizing the desired outcome and wishing hard?

Is there a branch of the christian religion that meditates and shit like that?

>>18523891
Hello, I'm new to these threads and board really. I thought I was pretty well read but it's obvious I'm out of my league here.

So, to anyone here, has anyone read Ra's Law of One? Or Conversations with the Hidden Hand? What are your thoughts, and what are some extra readings you'd recommend?

>>18531620
Both the Catholic and Orthodox Church.

>>18531650
Not that kind of meditation, they just repeat paragraphs

>>18531660
They practice many different types of meditation, but I'm guessing your looking for "Hesychasm".

>>18531660
if you don't know what you're talking about, why do you talk? look up hesychasm and tell me how that's not meditation.

>>18531665
>>18531667
orthodoxbro hivemind, and also we skipped 666

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>>18531676
>also we skipped 666

>>18531620
>>18531660
There's also Catholic Mysticism so the Imitation of Christ and whatever that Theresa woman wrote are good starts.

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>>18531924
More like imitation of Mary.

Your the bitch.

And from your head vagina a new heaven and earth.

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>>18531197
I dont know what to think about a diety whose different paths hate each other.
Self hating... I dont know.
Ive not thought on that much.

I think the not mixing thing has more to do with ethnic tensions.
Theres the whole baptised or jewish thing.
I would consider what I do jewish or unbaptised or what some people call left handed.
Thats probably my problem...being a left handed left hander.
Im just prone to seeing more of the grayscale then to say something is all black and white.

I think I leave the offerings I do because I choose to call the diety what I call it. I think I just recognize that it also in my mind is the same as XYZ other name.
So, I may leave black dog hair and cigars for Zarabanda, because I choose to worship him specifically in his Afro Cuban aspect.
But, in my brain I recognize that he also goes by the name Ganesha for someone else.

Again, more gray area.
Thats the positive and negative at the same time of being an isolated practitioner.
No one reels me in and I start getting all kooky.

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bump

>>18534287
>AzhdAAAYYYYYYYYYha lmao
Thanks.

Scanning has been slow going. I'm only a couple chapters into book six. Semester stars again this morning so my schedule is even further restricted. I'll finish as time permits.

That said I promised some pics of the museum archive to /his/, so you'll probably take a backseat for a couple days.

Ape or anyone else - I've dabbled in a few different systems; mostly sigil work and angelick work with good success. I'd like to step check out some western eso stuff/hermétics stuff next. Firstly, what are your thoughts on the golden dawn system (worth it or is there something better)? It's a bit intimidating so maybe a good simple jumping off point? Or maybe another western esoteric system altogether?

Thanks guys

Is there any kind of magick that could help me with my nightmares? when i wake up i'm more tired than i was before because they terrify me. I try to open my eyes while i dream but then i just open my eyes inside the dream and this scares me even more because it feels more real than the dreams already are.
Tried meditating before i sleep and mantras but that didn't work

>>18534715
Try sleeping in a comfortable position and place, nightmares usually happens when either our body is suffocating (due to blanket) or our head is in a awkward position.

>>18534338
bump?

>>18532864
>Self hating...
Yeah when I mentioned that I was specifically thinking about Erzulie Freda, and Erzulie D'en Tort, they are both Erzulie(s) and from the same "family" so ostensibly the same spirit in the rada and petro rites (respectfully). However I've been told by mambos and other practitioners that Dantor and Freda should never have shrines facing one another as they fight and dislike one another. This apparently comes from a story regarding the two fighting over a male lwa (Ogun afaik), and ended with knives, stabbing and cutting, in short they dislike one another. This story is interesting because in order to be fighting, they'd sort of need to be separate entities, but they're both of the Erzulie family. So ostensibly the same energy.

I will say that the orisha/nkisi seem to be a little more structured than the lwa who are all over the place. As I understand it, when one practices vodou or voodoo seriously, theyre sort of given structure by the patrons or pantheon of the house they belong to, and studying it from outside is nearly impossible since there's so many variants and different approaches.

So naturally being inclined toward these practices, I've encountered this issue a lot and had to think about it.

I'm familiar with the concept of "jewish" palo, and personally would lean that direction with you. I don't tend to syncretize with saints or non-african forms of the spirits.

I think were more on the same page here than the earlier conversation may have indicated, recogniing the syncretisms and relations to other god-forms is fine, and I do this too, I was just expressing some opinions.

>ethnic tensions.
I think this is definitely a factor, but it may also be an attempt by the "clergy" to maintain the uniqueness of their own practice from that of others. Im sure you've probably had people refer to your practices as "voodoo" and it was mildly irritating, since it isn't. I think that may be part of what fuels them to encourage this.

>>18534321
Link your /his/ thread fag desu senpai

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>>18535482
Luckily, not referred to as "voodoo" yet.
>inb4 Peanut Gallery

>>synchretize with saints
I dont prefer this.
I have materials on it, for the sake of completeness. I have a few 7 day candles from the Carniceria store, but honestly I dont have all the saints memorized and I only ever offer to the spirits using either their Yoruba (yeah I know...Baptized. Its an old habit) or Cuban/Hispanic names.
I am super interested in some of the African family mask traditions, Zangbeto, Masquerade, and Eggungun.
Ive honored Eggungun before, but not as much as I should have in recent years.
I was very impressed when you mentioned you do grave up keep for some.
I usually visit and pay attention to them but in the past I always had an uninterested hanger on that didnt want to stick around long.
Now that I have some more alone time I think this would be a good example and goal for me to work towards.
I dont have a lot to offer, except maybe brush and dirt cleanup and sporadically maybe some flowers here and there.
Ive always been big into photographing the stones, especially the ones that are very worn, to try to save a record of the name dates and inscriptions.
I also locate and photo unmarkeds to try to give them some attention and recognition.
And Ive purchased grave dirt and cemetery dirt and other things from cemeteries like turkey feathers for cleansing and a hunk of wood that was struck by lightning.
Both came from an abandoned cemetery that I felt should be compensated for its goods.
Ive also picked a smashed piece of tombstone from the abandoned segregated cemetery when some developers were building a little too close and dumped some smashed headstones down a dirt road trailing off between the cemetery and the neighborhood.

I didnt know about the Errzulies.
But, I was aware of the interaction between Zarabanda and Mama Chola (Ochun and Oggun). But I thought it was him chasing her, not the other way around.
Technically, shes also his Aunt.

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>>18536121
>Zangbeto
Zangbeto practices are fucking awesome, it feels like a Miyazaki movie or something, like "Spirited Away". I feel like a lot of culture is lacking in the modern world. I see the zangbeto ceremonies and get jealous that Ive never seen the spirits walk like that.

As for the grave upkeep, I don't want to overstate what I do, I mostly look after the few graves that I work with. There's a local spiritualist where I live that's sort of recognized for her life, but her grave is a bit in disarray and I like to look after it a bit when I go to talk to her.
I also like to leave flowers and things at the potters ground (if you haven't asked your local cemetery where the potters ground is, you might want to look into it).
It's not like I do proper grounds-keeping and look after the place, though I've given some consideration to volunteering to help out somehow. I could be doing more.

On a side note, the grave of the spiritist lady has some spotted mountain hemlock growing on it that I want to harvest a bit of, but Im scared to death of that shit. Even breathing too near it can put you in the hospital, let alone touching it. Lethal plants from the grave of a spiritually powerful icon though seems like a lot of ashe for doing something potent and "left handy".


I find it funny that the average impression of afro-cuban-carribean-whatever diaspora practices is that of some wild eyed "witchdoctor" grave robbing and stealing skulls or some bullshit. When in actuality very few practices revere the dead the way these practices do, and would be the last to desecrate burial grounds.

Ignorance, whatcha gonna do?


>Technically, shes also his Aunt.
Yeah the spirits get freaky like that.

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What do you guys think of people who take the Cthulhu Mythos seriously, such as The Cult of Cthulhu, which combines the Mythos with other occult traditions?
Do you think it's possible that Lovecraft's writings were actually influenced by ancient beings, or is it all just a work of fiction?


Quote from the Cult of Cthulhu Bible:
“The Cult of Cthulhu shall never die. Its untenable spirit, unearthly and ichorous, is spreading far and wide through the Matrix-esque reality program that we are immersed in. As you read these words, try to wake up from the illusions surrounding you.

… Cthulhu Cult is the integration of H.P. Lovecraft’s Cthulhu Mythos, Satanism, Chaos Magic, the Fourth Way, and other Left Hand Path traditions. It is also the fruition of my special plan: to see this world’s flaws, to understand why they exist, and then finally… to overcome them!

Years ago, I knew that humanity was on the wrong track, and this horrid green tome corrects the mistake of man… before us rushes a new flood of reason. When the Old Ones return, this world shall drown before Their might. The ordinary, everyday reality we believe in does not exist. Many human beings already sense this truth, but only the most blasphemous of Black Magicians can use it to their advantage. Cthulhu Cult reveals this loathsome knowledge to any and all who wish to absorb our cryptic, blasphemous truth.”


links to relevant texts:
https://mega.nz/#F!wgtjFaSA!4oOGYggBhJSM5DgfR8G3Ug

https://www.limetorrents.cc/-torrent-1455942.html

>>18536661
The only person I know who takes the Cthulhu mythos 100% seriously (not as egregores but actual beings that existed prior to HPL) is S Ben Qayin and he's in the fraudulent and deluded Become a Living God group.

>>18536661
>Years ago, I knew that humanity was on the wrong track, and this horrid green tome corrects the mistake of man… before us rushes a new flood of reason. When the Old Ones return, this world shall drown before Their might. The ordinary, everyday reality we believe in does not exist. Many human beings already sense this truth, but only the most blasphemous of Black Magicians can use it to their advantage. Cthulhu Cult reveals this loathsome knowledge to any and all who wish to absorb our cryptic, blasphemous truth.”
Just cause they use profane language doesn't mean they're not trying to sell you something...


As a chaote I would suggest the Pseudonomicon instead.

Hi, I'm a Wiccan, looking to branch outside my treehugging neopagan bubble.

Should I read Crowley? How relevant is his stuff to a non-Thelemite?

>>18528047
I'm a virgin lady. Sorta.

(blowjobs don't count, right?)

>>18536811
You can read Part I of Liber ABA as it is of universal relevance.

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>>18525391
Funny enough. I saw my only living grandparent recently. We talked about gems and pearls and whether oysters feel pain (I told her I thought even plants did). Didn't get a chance to ask about occult-y things unfortunately. Perhaps I'll get the chance at her upcoming birthday...

Just feel restless. I am an underemployed mentally-ill college drop-out who cannot drive due to nearly being blind. Makes it difficult to find a job much less hold one down. I try to fill the void with spiritual attainment. I collect dreams and memories and fantasies. I wish that I could become a monk or a shaman so i wouldn't have to be a bum but I think they usually don't accept people who have a history of mental instability...


>tfw no gf to pursue creative and spiritual goals while living a carefree and independent existence

>>18536811

Wicca has roots with Thelema, it wouldn't hurt to give Uncle Aleister quick lookie-loo

>>18523891
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard#Occult_involvement_in_Pasadena
Have fun explaining that to everyone, you dumbass Ape.

>>18537443
My mood right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkT4vAJnJls

Hello Ape, do you happen to have a link to William Schreib's Dance of the Zodiac? Thanks in advance.

>>18537443
You in here Ape? I wanna feel your vibration as I prepare to twist the knife deeper than I already have. ;)

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>>18537443
Most of us already know Hubbard lived with Parsons.
Its common knowledge, and not really a big deal.
Its all water under the bridge at this point.
And theres nothing really damning in the wiki article, or of much relevance to anyone who posts here.
We all know Hubbard was a conman and Parsons was gullible.
Marjorie Cameron is of more interest, at least to me.
>Xmilitary Cartographer
>moves to desert
>arts it up
But, without Parsons rocket fuel we probably wouldnt have gotten as far as a species with space exploration.
So, for that we are indebted to him, despite his all too human flaws.

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>>18537682
I find it way more interesting that in '42, Jack T. Chick, creator of the Chick Gospel Tracts (http://www.chick.com/), was drafting advertisements on behalf of Aerojet for Parsons' JATO technology for potential government contractors.

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>>18536661
It's probably foolish of me to state, but I don't entirely discredit them. The creation of egregore and powerful cultural symbols is strong magic. And to be fair, Lovecraft's work is older than some other modern traditions which are given credence on less. Heck Lumley was already thinking this in 1933, and was taking it very seriously, and for what it's worth it would appear that LaVey, Michael Aquino, Kenneth Grant and Phil Hine all took it pretty seriously. Whatever you think of those individuals, it's gotten some attention.

That said, Lovecraft was a pretty avid reader and clearly had some kind of occult dabbling, even if it was just to scare himself and look for good ideas. Dagon, Nodens, and many other mythos deities and spirits do have real world origins, and some of the "entirely fictional" ones bare striking resemblances.

>is it all just a work of fiction?
Everything is fiction. Belief brings power.

>>18536811
Read all the occult foundations, Crowley, Blavatsky, Mathers, Regardie, Fortune and heck read some Gardner if you havent, a surprising number of wiccans havent... get some background, wont hurt you.

Then look into cornish traditional witchcraft, Chumbly and all that and be ready to discard your previous presumptions on what witchcraft is, and was.

>>18536848
If you talk to Grandma again, dont refer to it as "occulty" or anything like that, just use the word superstition, or at most "witchy" if theyre understanding. Youll learn stuff you never knew I'll bet. Did you pay attention when they were talking about gems and pearls? Or about their theories on pain? Theres a bunch of information just in that conversation.

>>18537682
>>18537763
And the moral to the story is:
"People go crazy, even famous or successful people".

>>18537859
It should also be noted that Lovecraft himself was a staunch material realist and thought all this faffing about with actual belief in his creations was mostly nonsense, so take that for what it's worth too.

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>>18537862
>Lovecraft himself was a staunch material realist
That's what they ALL say.

>>18537866
wow, that's not done by lovecraft is it? Thats terribly neat and tidy for him.

Is this an implication that the dream quest is symbolic of climbing the tree?

Either way, I think that Lovecraft SAID that, and I think he may even have believed it, but his interests and voracious appetite for the supernatural the magical and the unexplained pretty clearly indicates otherwise to my mind.

>>18537887
Check out "A Half Choked Meep of Cosmic Fear" from Aries over in the Academic folder...should be the very first item in 'Academic'.

He was very likely in sincere contact with Theosophists.

>>18537910
Huh, interesting, Ill have to give it a read-over. Thank you. I need to spend more time in the academic folder.

Many times I've heard that the christian religion is based on older religions, which ones of those have the heaven at war with hell mentality?

>>18538659
Zoroastrianism

I don't know if this is the correct thread to post this,does this count as an /omg/ post? anyway
I want to know if this is magick related or maybe just a coincidence but since a long time i have been depressed and started to self harm myself,the point is since some time ago i noticed every time i do it things seems to get better in my life for the next days (or even almost immediately with some simple things) so sometimes i do it in a way to get better luck...well not just for that since i feel the need to do it when my life goes like shit but that also have become a plus
Is this magick related? i have read magick has a lot to do about mind and will and so on
wont blame you guys if i get called delusional,mentally ill or even edgy but i will be grateful to any serious reply

Ape, what is the canon/basic reading for kundalini yoga in your opinion?

>>18539067
It's probably a mental illness, but on the off chance that it's not...


Have you ever actually tried to practice magic before, or make contact with other-worldly entities? It seems odd that your first thought is to connect your behavior to magic.

Others here can probably be more helpful to you, since I don't actually practice myself. I'm just a scholar, who has admittedly been slacking in his scholarly duties lately.

>>18539310
Well i have always been interested in occultism,/esoterism etc i have think of magick because as i said it has a lot to do with the mind,the will,etc
Thanks for your answer anon

>>18539440
normally I'd tell you to get to the psychiatrist and get your shit straight but despite your fairly obvious problems you seem pretty lucid.

I agree with scholar anon that it seems strange you'd link the self-harm to magic. I'm not sure where you're drawing that association. I'm not saying it's an incorrect association, I'm just curious as to why.

Have you tried any other kind of sacrificial or offertory practices with gods/spirits/whatever?

I should stress here, I am not advocating blood sacrifice on your behalf, at this point lets try and keep that blood inside you, I'm just curious if you have ever done any kind of offering or sacrifice, food, water, etc. have you meditated, prayed or anything of the sort?

A little more background on your esoteric or occult interests and practices might help us help you to help yourself.

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>>18539067
When I was younger I had the same problem as you.
Military Industrial scale guilt/shame/anxiety complex.
Otherwise known as neurotic.
I also noticed that the day afterward I would be euphoric.
I think its from the adrenaline and endorphins.
Remember the first couple of days afterward your skin is really sore around the wound.
Any further aggravations will release more endorphins if you have more pain or distress from the wound.
Same reaction some get from tattoos and piercings.
I didnt get it from my tattoos, but I did from my piercings.
From time to time I gauge my ears up to about a 2 for the endorphins and then let them grow back up.
It is possible for them to grow back up some if you stick under a 0.
Right now I can wear normal hoop earrings, the backs are able to rotate very slightly in the pierced holes, but no biggy.
It only takes a few months for them to shrink back down.
I recently opened my nose ring hole back up after not wearing it for a few months.
I have not and will not redo my labret, unless I can find a backer or ring that doesnt rub my gums.

Also, Blood Magick.
The only time Ive worked for someone on the line between life and death and I had a chance to intercede in time I used Blood Magick.
Sacrificing of yourself is the strongest offering you can give in my book.
Kid survived.
Friends nephew, in burn unit due to a house fire.
3 or 4 years old at the time.
Im really freaking proud of that one.
Shit like that is how I know magick works.

>>18537859
>"People go crazy, even famous or successful people".
This.
And, if youre gonna be "crazy", at least twist that shit to your advantage.

>>18537763
Why am I NOT surprised?
Id say hes into anything for a buck.
One of those Yahweh When Convenient types.
I do have a hilarious pamphlet I think he did about "Deliverance from Demons" that is a story about the evils of ATR.

>>18538659
Sumerians, Indus River Valley, Bon Shaminism, Buddhism.
All are pre Christian, just to name a few.

>>18539498
Well i think im pretty lucid (despite the fact that i have depression and thats a mental illness itself) its not like i think im gonna cut myself to get something in exchange but that has become a "plus" when i do it (have to say its not often and it happens when my life is going like shit)
I think i make that association since i started to link the self harm with things getting better after it (and thats why i ask what do you guys think about this,im not saying its a prrof of anything since it can be a coincidence)
about the practices i think i have never tried any kind of sacrifice and i say i think because i kinda have believed in gods/spirits and so on since always and i ight have pray or give some offerings in some way but nothing too important

>>18539583
>since i started to link the self harm with things getting better after it
We understand WHEN you made that association, we're still not sure why. Do you have any theories on why your self-harm seems to improve your luck or be magical?

>>18539579
Yes this is exactly how i feel,the moment after i do it gives me a mental peace and calm that i rarely experiment by other ways(yet i have to say again,this is not something i do often and not for pleasure either)

>>18539593
Sorry for misunderstand,i associate it a little bit with sigils (i might be wrong about this),the way you focus on it or the mental state you need to have to make it/meditate upon it + the fact that blood seems to be a strong component in some magical practices,as PaloChan said,self sacrifice

>>18539597
Ok then, your answer is endorphins.
That is why you feel amazing afterward.
But its short lived.
A few days later you feel like crap again, right?
For you, I would suggest finding something healthier to replace this in your life.
Do as I say, not as I do.

Exercise has the exact same endorphin release.
So does hugging.
And, anything you can do everyday that releases endorlhins is a natural anti depressent.
More endorphins means less desire to harm.
Make sense?
Go outside and do something.

>>18539614
Thank you once again,in fact i do excercise regularly but i guess sooner or later i end up doing this again :(

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bamp

Wow, bump.

Decently extensive folk healing bibliography. Click the pic.

http://naturallysimple.org/living/irishfolkbib/

>>18525181
>I need indication you plan on working Chumbley's system
Why is this important?

>>18543310
>Why is it important I have at least tenuous assurance you're practicing the system I'm passing out initiatory mudra for?

>>18543377
Don't worry bro, I get it you're very clever and it's all very obvious to you. I just don't get why giving it to non practitioners is verboden. Is it something special to Chumbley for some reason?

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Just checking in to see whats shaking.
Apparently, not much.
Gonna try to makd a money drawing bag out of green clutch, fridge magnet.
Taking suggestions for other small ingredients that can fit in the inner zipper pocket.
The floor is open for /omg/ to help me with this experiment if you want.

>>18543408
Well now you're never going to know.

>>18543408
>asking for something
>being an asshole about it

-_-

>>18543898
Money related crystals like aventurine or cat's-eye
or herbs like jasmine

>>18543898
>>18545225

Or basil (since it's a common cooking herb) and you're making now and don't have time to get other things.

Maybe a make a money sigil?

Carve / write the Fehu rune on something?

>>18528113
Except that it's not 1616 and youtube has like a hundred videos about DIY blacksmithing that the average joe could use in combination with a home depot.

Maybe this is more an ethical question than occult related, but when do you consider acceptable to take magickal action against a person? Do you think it will have a backslash? Maybe a karmic consequence? (in case karma is actually a thing)

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>>18545372

I feel it appropriate to take negative magical action against others when a few criteria are met:
>they will continue to harm either you, or others
>reasoning with them as one human to another has failed
>mundane approaches are not feasible to end their continued negative actions(eg, beating the shit out of them, litigious action, fucking their material possessions up)

There is *always* repercussions for our actions, whether they be good or bad, both in the current life and future lives. Think of all actions (magical or mundane) as firing off a flare that attracts things of a similar nature as the action taken from all of existence to you; The brighter the flare, the further it calls from. Mundane methods often are the dullest except in certain circumstances (think genocide, and things of a similar scope), while magical methods are often the brightest, and vary based on intensity/scope of works performed.

>>18545372
>but when do you consider acceptable to take magickal action against a person
Only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use.

>If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun

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>>18534321
>Scanning has been slow going.
Story of my life.
That and dust is my worst enemy.

>>18537866
Umberto Eco always sounded to me as an "I want to not believe" tryhard.

>>18537866
Isn't it? Its up there with proclaiming your (or literally every historical figure) was a deist.

>>18537910
he also had a huge library with occult and magick books, inherited from his grandpa

>>18545366
And then the demon you summon will be all like "what the fuck is this gay home depot shit" and he kills you.

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Any chance of getting this in the library? (or does anyone have it by chance) "Enochian Vision Magick: An Introduction and Practical Guide to the Magick of Mr. John Dee and Edward Kelley"

Gonna start a thread with pics from the museum archive soon. I'll link y'all.

>>18546730
>LMD
"No."

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>>18546792
Any chance of getting this in the library?

>>18546811
Sure, if it's more or less in agreement with 777 and Complete Magician's Tables.

>>18546825
I was trying to playfully troll you with such a terrible suggestion, but it appears as if I overestimated you. You're a filthy literalist.

>>18546849
I was gonna take the bait but I figured I could turn it into a teaching moment by referencing the Kabbalistic standard(s).

>>18546792
Sorry ape I'm a bit of noob. This author is no good? I was drawn because it seemed like it was a bit more beginer friendly.

>100s of books
>still no Franz Bardon
2/10 library

>>18547049

Bardon is taboo, 'round here.

>>>/his/2253406

>>18546917
LMD is sorta bad.
Now, if you ever have the chance to go see LMD *lecture* please go do it. I dunno what it is but his books suck compared to dealing with him in person.

>>18547049
>Bardon is the end-all-be-all of the Western tradition
God, wouldn't that be nice?
*
Come look at my pics:
>>>/his/2253406

>>18547049
/x/ is armchair magician central

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>>18546811
>>18546825
funny story,
We've got that book at work (I work in a metaphysical/witch/magic/crystal type place) as a reference. It is unadulterated garbage.

I think there might be something to this whole "stones are magic" shit, but it isn't going to be found in "love is in the earth".

On a side note, where are my evil hexy crystals? Are ALL crystals magically healing and delicious?

On a side side note, I'm drunk so disregard me.
Its the gede's day, let's pretend its a religious observation that I'm drunk, and not because I have to go to work tommorow and sell people rocks and sage.

If you love magic, don't work at a metaphysical shop.

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>>18548373
>On a side note, where are my evil hexy crystals? Are ALL crystals magically healing and delicious?

This quartz tetrahedron should answer your question.

>>18548380
yeah well quart are neutral, they can be programmed, I meant where is my crystal equivalent of belladonna or henbane or whatever. I want the crystal that's only purpose is to fuck up your day.

Also thanks for the pic

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>>18548388
Agate
Alexandrite
Amethyst
Angelite
Astrophyllite
Diamond
Star Diopside
Emerald
Flint
Fossil Shark teeth
Garnet
Goshenite
Hematite
Hyraceum
Kunzite
Kyanite
Meteorite
Obsidian
Black onyx
Opal
Ruby
Sphene

So, after some serious experimentation with kuji-in, I've realized what a potent method it can be. More has been accomplished to affect change within the self in two weeks (and some change) practicing it, than months spent toiling under the eight circuit consciousness model.

>>18548438
Why Amethyst?

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>>18548373
>where are my evil hexy crystals? Are ALL crystals magically healing and delicious?
The only one I can think of.

>>18548479
From the last time "Kuji-in" was mentioned in theses threads it was made pretty clear that pretty much no English material isn't trustworthy and completely inadequate.

Has that changed?

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>>18549059

Not at all, has that changed; it's the underlying principle that I've found to be beneficial. To make full use of it, one must understand its true nature, same as any practice. Using several methods of focusing in conjunction has yielded results greater than its sum parts, for me. Maintaining visualization, sensory manipulation, meditation upon the core concept of each syllable, the regulation of breathing, the bodily action of the mudra, the verbal action of chanting the mantra, without letting any one thing slip is where I've found gain. There is a tendency of pretension and armchair dissection over experimentation and innovation with far too many who wear the hat of "Occultist". Nothing is true, everything is permitted, after all.

>>18546825
>Complete Magician's Tables.
Where is this one in the library?

>>18548533
Induce over sensitivity and self inflicted trauma.
Psychic self destruct.

What can I do to make people stop talking trash about me and my family? It is getting out of hand, people are starting to ostracize me, and it is affecting my normal life even if I try to don't care. I can't fix this in the "traditional way". If there any practice or something that can help me to make them stop? I'm not talking about hurting them or anything like that, just make them stop.

I wanna be so gnostic I shit tipherets, whats a good place to get started?
Rec me books too.

>>18549736
The New Testament.

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Hey what are some good Mudras or techniques for removing and/or transmuting thoughtforms? The real nasty ones.

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>>18549559
Find an Asian market or Hispanic butcher (carniceria).
Ask them for an animal tongue.
Make a Tongue Tied or Shut Up spell with the tongue.
You normally will see these with beef tongue, but you can use tongue from any other animal they might have available in the scraps or for sale.
Let me know if you need more details.

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>>18550765
>need them to be quiet
>hundreds of binding oils, powders, recipes and "shut-up" products to recommend
>Palo goes immediately to the butcher shop then the hardware store because fuck it.

Never change.

>>18550765
>Make a Tongue Tied or Shut Up spell with the tongue.
At that point pick up a rail spike and do an invultation.

>>18551101
that's usually part of the process.

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>>18550995
Damn straight!
Dont be givin nobody your money if you can do it yourself cheaper. :D

>>18551152
>thinks I was talking about the cost

And this is why you're still awesome.

I was more referring to the fact that you skipped all the low grade simple shit and jumped straight to visceral meat and iron. Because fucking around isnt in the curriculum.

>>18549736
>gnostic
I just started reading The Gnostics by Jacques Lacarriere and shit is pretty cash. Not sure what I'd recommend ask Ape.

>>18550765
Lol no pussy magic here. You want a spell? Get yourself an animal tongue.

Love it!

>>18548373
>If you love magic, don't work at a metaphysical shop.
I guess you don't love magic then.

>>18550765
>>18551271
bydlo tier magic

>>18551359
I do, which is why I'm warning people from doing it, because it kills some of the joy. I figured it suitable to say so in this thread.

Did you have an endgame in this or were you just trying to disparage or discredit someone you don't know, for no reason?

>>18551364
>bydlo
>using polish terms to describe something distinctly outside of east European tradition
>not just using the appropriate racial epithets because you're a tryhard.

cyka blyat

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Bydlo: Originally this word came from Russia. This term is used to describe lowest layers of society - non-educated factory workers, street gangsters, poor family children etc. Bydlo is mostly used for aggressive and unclever people.

>>18550765
Sounds good. Let's see where I can find the oil and powder (Im not american). This is hoodoo right?

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>>18551404
>>18551481
Bydło means cattle, and it's sometimes used as an offensive word similar to "sheeple"

t. Polish anon

>having grandparents
I forgot I'm here with literal children

>>18551364
>>18551404
>>18551481
>>18552162
Who cares. Self defense is legit, and this is as good as anything.

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>>18551481
>>18551364
You want something done right, dont be afraid to get your hands dirty.

>>18551872
Yes, this is hoodoo.
You can use oil and powder, but do you really need oil and powder?
Not really.
It helps with the theatrics for some.
Animal tongue
Upholstery needle
Heavy duty black thread, like for sewing denim or leather
I like the aluminum foil to reflect their nastiness back at them.
Freezer space
Hell, stab it a few times, pour acid on it, and throw it in a bucket of quick lime if you want. ;)

>>18552259
I was watching this guy and he was saying the same! https://youtu.be/01TdRQq1LUM

Thanks Palo!

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>>18552304
That Southern accent.
That half stoned Scotch Irish look.
That college professor vibe.
That anthropology.
He dressed up to make a Youtube video? That tie.
Hubba hubba.
>ITP Porn for Appalachian Mountain hags.

what is the most basic psychic defense /omg/ ?

>>18552259
>pour acid on it, and throw it in a bucket of quick lime if you want
This is why you're based.
I like drying it out just a wee bit and burning a sigil on the tongue using a lit incense stick as a stylus.

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Anyone know the source of this? If so is it in the library?

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>>18552374
A sound mind.

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>>18552384
I have a part 2 but sadly no part 3

>>18552393
and how can one achieve sound mind?

>>18536661
This sounds fun as fuck, do they have official anything?

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>>18552399
here you go.

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>>18552412
an this.

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>>18552400
Beats me.
That shits been illuding me for 33 years.
If you find it let me know.

>>18552408
Pseudonomicon? Maybe?

>>18552412
>>18552414
Thank you anon! You are a hero and a Saint

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>>18549736
Sefir Yetsirah.
Nag Hammadhi
Dead Sea Scrolls in Greek
Merkibah tradition
Zohar
Mindfulness meditation
Trail running
Bogomilism or Catharism
Share a horse with your sibling
Live in a cave
Wear burlap and animal hides
Eat only things dropped by ravens

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>>18552448
>Wear burlap and animal hides
And camel hair!

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>>18552448
>>18552456
Change your last name to "the Baptist".
>Steve the Baptist
Vows of poverty and celibacy
Cross the abyss and slay Choronzon

>>18552424
thanks i guess.

anyone who can offer any method or easy ritual?
i

>>18552429
no poblem friend.

>>18552479
>anyone who can offer any method or easy ritual?
See: Pseudonomicon. It's one of like the only Chaos texts I've kept a hardcopy of.

>>18552483
thanks Ape. i think i have a digital copy of that

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>>18552483
>>18552490
Suddenly I feel like the only person on Earth with bookshelves.

>>18552483
i took a wuick look on it. were you reffering emotional engineering or straight up banisment?

>>18552510
i move over pyshical copies to digitals long ago, due to all kind of issues, money first.

>>18552510

Nothing beats a good old physical book. You can still read it when there's no power or internet. You can take it damn near anywhere and read it any time with no hassle. It doesn't need recharged. Plus, there's the simple majesty of seeing a bank of shelves lined floor to ceiling with books of all shapes and sizes.

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>>18546704
>Bangs two erasers together outside.
>Goes back to the board.
>Wax on, Wax off
>Chalk
And then, the demon you summon will be all like, "You did all this....for me? How thoughtful. I just...wow. Anon. You shouldnt have. How long did it take you to make this?"
Hand pour your silver ring.
Bitches love hand poured silver rings.
>My engagement ring was a hand poured silver band.
>No stones, no nothing

>>18551404
>being this butthurt over the word bydlo
literally kys. I think it describes most folk magick accurately

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>>18552246
what are you talking about? Of course it's legit.

>>18551872
I only mentioned the oils and powders because theyre simple entry-level stuff, theyre not needed in a tongue spell. If you want to add something to the act of fucking up a tongue, there's some herbs you could use, I personally suggest cloves (they numb the tongue), black mustard seed, and maybe some knotgrass, witchgrass or devil's shoestring.

Don't use oil in a tongue spell, it's a fucking mess (more than usual).

>>18552259
>pour acid on it, and throw it in a bucket of quick lime if you want.
This technique will speed up the evolutionary process as well for some people, so it's highly recommended.

>>18552362
>ITP Porn for Appalachian Mountain hags.
Also suitable for gulf coast swamp hags.

>>18552408
>official
no, but:
Read Blavatsky, but more importantly read Alice Bailey. This will give you some background on how all this might have gotten started.

You might also check out "When The Stars Are Right: Towards An Authentic R’lyehian Spirituality" by Scott R Jones, I've heard good things, and the title speaks for itself.

>>18552510
I bought my current house specifically because it had a room to fill it with bookshelves, I love having a library.

>>18552542
Also a lot of the stuff that Palo and I are interested in hasn't been widely digitized.

>>18552590
>caring about my opinion
literally get over it and do something besides hanging on our coat tails to tell us how wrong we are.

>>18523891

Magicians. I don't understand them.
Oh, sure. You get a bunch of failed mystics together and you can call it the Golden Dawn or whatever. But the magician's goal always seemed short-sighted, a creation of people who find themselves incapable of understanding the truth.
Why perform your rituals? Why participate in occultism at all? Why would I want to bring about change in the illusory world of sensory perception and phenomenology when I know that it is false change?

Those things found within experience are subject to time, though time itself is also an illusory construct. Being subject to time makes all things part of a causal chain. Why would I try to change anything with magick when I know all is as it must be, necessarily, within the chain of causation?

Only the desire for personal gain would push someone to that end. A desire which in itself demonstrates a lack of enlightened understanding of the actual metaphysical nature of reality.

Are you fools? Why waste your time conjuring cheap tricks?

>>18552767
>Why would I want to bring about change in the illusory world of sensory perception and phenomenology when I know that it is false change?
Because some people see the world as a training ground as opposed to a prison.

>>18552767
>I don't understand them.
So we should disregard the rest of your opinion based on your admitted ignorance of the subject? I like when shitposters make it convenient for me, thanks.

>>18552767
>the magician's goal
Which is what, exactly? Since you're the obvious expert here.

>Why would I want to bring about change in the illusory world of sensory perception and phenomenology when I know that it is false change?
Not all doctrines of Maya are as conservative as this.

>Those things found within experience are subject to time, though time itself is also an illusory construct
Yup. This is no problem for the nondualist, of whatever stripe.

>Being subject to time makes all things part of a causal chain.
Hey, if you wanna waste time chasing your own tail running causality chains, be my guest.

>Why would I try to change anything with magick when I know all is as it must be
So how, then, is a ritual not a necessary and proper result of said causality, if all things are as they are?

>Only the desire for personal gain would push someone to that end
Only a tiny subset of occultism, which ranges from the 'practical' to the 'transcendental'.

>A desire which in itself demonstrates a lack of enlightened understanding of the actual metaphysical nature of reality.
You're gonna have to back this one up with some proofs, theoretical or otherwise.

>Why waste your time conjuring cheap tricks?
Why waste your time bitching about it? I thought all things were necessary and proper, as you state in the third paragraph.

>>18552767
>Why would I want to bring about change in the illusory world of sensory perception and phenomenology when I know that it is false change?
That's a legitimately good question desu

>>18552790
>That's a legitimately good question desu
Rhetorical questions are not "good questions".

>>18552790
That's begging the question, assuming his conceptions, doctrines, and approaches to Maya are the only valid ones.

For example, in the Uttara Kaula Trika, maya is a primary power of Shiva, and one of the deepest, but not the only, constituent of "reality". As such it is already primordially unaffected by notions of "pure" or "profane", meaning it's not to be adored or ignored, but simply transcended.

All levels of reality below it are subject to it, and above it are beyond it, so why bother with the categorization project in the first place?

>>18552803
And hell, that still implies a transcendence model, which is nowhere to be found in the African Diaspora religions, or even ATR on the continent, though I think I'm starting to pull threads of nondualism out of the Amazonian cultural complex.

>>18552784
I am wise only because I admit that I know nothing, men of Athens.
>>18552785
>Which is what, exactly?
Presumably, to do magick, e.g. create change in accordance with Will.
>Not all doctrines of Maya are as conservative as this.
Ashtavakra said to shun the experiences of the senses like a poison.
>So how, then, is a ritual not a necessary and proper result of said causality, if all things are as they are?
Even if it is, it is only the folly of the magician which makes him think that he has actually done anything. The magician doesn't need to perform any spells or rituals because the causal chain will continue regardless of his doing so. To be "accomplished" as a magician is to say nothing, as the magician accomplishes nothing; he neither creates change nor truly creates the conditions for change. Things are, on the contrary, going to happen regardless of the magician's belief. "Magic(k)" is a powerless thoughtform which only results in the magician believing erroneously that something was the result of their actions, which only solidifies attachment to the illusory world. It literally pulls people further away from enlightenment, and though they may be determined to do so within this experienced "reality", they should at least understand it. I honestly doubt E.A. Koetting, Waite, or Crowley understood that -- but you've read more of their work than I have. Crowley maybe had a few glimpses but his writings don't suggest that he was enlightened.
>You're gonna have to back this one up with some proofs, theoretical or otherwise.
Spinoza's Ethics wherein he demonstrates nondual understanding is a decent, but ultimately flawed Western approach. I would suggest an in-depth study of Liezi and Zhuangzi, followed by the classical Advaita teachings (with special attention to Ashtavakra) and then Hitoshi Nagai. I don't have the space to explain all of that here, but you're a big reader.
>Why waste your time bitching about it?
Why do anything at all? Why be anything?

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>>18552767

It is the journey and the insights it brings, my friend. Not the destination, that matters.

>>18552785

Ran out of space on the last reply.
As for your request for proofs, besides the authors I pointed out, my stance is grounded in only two things: first, that it be rationally sound and demonstrable through theory (theory which is heavily detailed in the authors I suggested) and second, that it be congruent with the mystical experiences that I personally have had empirically or otherwise -- because ultimately if we are to take the pursuit of metaphysics seriously as a subject, we must retain the utmost skepticism, and the only mystical experiences which ever could be verified by myself are my own.

>>18552830
>I am wise only because I admit that I know nothing, men of Athens.
Then stop presenting your argument as if it is an educated one, and go do something better with your valuable and enlightened time, that would actually show your wisdom.

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>>18552813
I have something for you.

In liteature they usually refer to the three Inca realms, the classical heaven, earth and hell.

But it's actually four, the Hanan Pacha or the world above, that's the residence of the higher spirits, the Kay Pacha or the earthly realm and the Uku Pacha the inner realm, this three realms are equivalent to the freudian organization of the Id, ego and superego.

But there's a four realm the Haqak Pacha or the world beyond and not much it's known about it.

>>18552830
>Presumably, to do magick, e.g. create change in accordance with Will.
What you're doing right this second is change in accordance to will. To quote AC's expansion of this idea in M:TP -
>(Illustration: It is my Will to inform the World of certain facts within my knowledge. I therefore take "magickal weapons", pen, ink, and paper; I write "incantations"---these sentences---in the "magickal language" ie, that which is understood by the people I wish to instruct; I call forth "spirits", such as printers, publishers, booksellers and so forth and constrain them to convey my message to those people. The composition and distribution of this book is thus an act of Magick by which I cause Changes to take place in conformity with my Will.)

>Ashtavakra
Well thank goodness that's not the only commentator we have to pick from.

>which makes him think that he has actually done anything
What does he think he's done if the conception is of all "as it is"? Among many advocates of the psychological model, the rite only marks the celebration of isness.

>E.A. Koetting, Waite, or Crowley
One of these things is not like the other :3

>Spinoza's
Ew.

>classical Advaita teachings
Yeah, I'm not going to listen to any "nondualist" who preaches at me about pure and impure, and thus far I've yet to find an Advaita practitioner who can cool their orthodox jets long enough to even consider that "pure/impure" or "action/nonaction" are themselves illusory distinctions.

>Why do anything at all? Why be anything?
Exactly. By your own philosophy you're utterly wasting both of our time because all causality is going to impel us toward outcomes that are emergent of preconditions, including the practice of ritual or yoga.

>>18552860
>But there's a four realm the Haqak Pacha or the world beyond and not much it's known about it.
Yeah, the primordial nondifferentiation "dreamtime" like state in the mythic past of many Amazonian tribes becomes startlingly more nondual when you realize the shamanic assumption is that all these man-animal spirits you're trafficking with have their origination in that non-accessible primordium.

>>18552845
>rationally sound
And you're griping at me about the memes of the West?

>that it be congruent with the mystical experiences that I personally have had empirically or otherwise
If your anecdotes are admissible then mine are too, and they say that renunciation of illusion is a state equally enslaved to illusion as revelry therein, rendering this a stupid argument.

>>18552855

In accordance with the parlance of our times, my argument would be considered one from a point of education, as I've spent countless hours looking through the grimoires and books on theory to come to my conclusions. Furthermore, experiences in meditation certainly should be considered valid information and their own category of education. But I recognize that there is no actual truth to the vast majority of it.
How should I go do something better with my valuable time? There is no time in which I could do anything in the first place, it's illusory, and as an illusion (like all perceived things) it has no value. So I can't do something (there is no time in which I could do anything), it can't be any better or worse than any other action (value is meaningless), I have no time, and the concept of wisdom ultimately rests on the human tendency to seek out authority figures (I do not claim to be an authority on any subject) and not on actual metaphysical understanding.

If I (and anyone else who disagrees with your stances) go off and do whatever, that deprives you the opportunity to engage in discussion with people outside of your echo chamber. Obviously you are getting something out of what I say, or you would not have responded at all. Thank you for your generous acceptance of my words.

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Brekekekex koax koax
Brekekekex koax koax.
Children of the marsh and lake
harmonious song now sweetly make,
our own enchanting melodies
koax koax
The songs we sang for Nysa’s lord,
for Dionysus, son of Zeus,
in Limnai at the Feast of Jars
as people in their drunken glee
thronged into our sanctuary.
Brekekekex koax koax.

>>18552883
>parlance of our times
Fuck off, Lebowski.

>as I've spent countless hours looking through the grimoires and books on theory to come to my conclusions
I have as well, not to mention fifteen plus years of practice.

>that deprives you the opportunity to engage in discussion with people outside of your echo chamber
You act as if we've never had to suffer through the proclamations of the Advaita Vedanta before, alongside Krsnite evangelism.

I dig you think you're doing us a favor by gracing us lowly misinformed occultists with your presence, but at this point it appears you're just wanking for the sake of wanking.

>>18552885
Atrisophanes here can fuck off, too.

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>>18552885

>>18552873
>If your anecdotes are admissible then mine are too
I never said they weren't. They are in fact more valuable to you (if any meaning can be ascribed to that word, "valuable") than my experiences. You've experienced them. You know they're true.

>>18552862
>To quote AC's expansion of this idea in M:TP
Oh come on now, you know just as well as I do that it's a common trend among pseudo-intellectuals and failed mystics to simply redefine things so that whatever position they take seems accurate.

>Well thank goodness that's not the only commentator we have to pick from.
Avadhuta is also a fun read, though Ashtavakra is a bit more straightforward.

>"pure/impure" or "action/nonaction" are themselves illusory distinctions.
There is no distinction. There is also no lack of distinction. That is the fundamental truth in understanding the nature of absolute reality.

>By your own philosophy you're utterly wasting both of our time
I don't believe in wasting time. Since time is illusory and I don't place value on those things which are illusory, how can it be wasted? How can "good" or "bad" qualifiers even be associated with it? Nonsense. I am sitting blissfully and enjoying what I'm doing. If you are doing the same, there is no complaint here. If you aren't doing the same... maybe meditate a little more?

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>>18552896
>Aristophanes
Pardon.

>>18552897

>>18552901
>>18552896
>I dig you think you're doing us a favor by gracing us lowly misinformed occultists with your presence, but at this point it appears you're just wanking for the sake of wanking.
Condescension isn't a good look for a mystic, euphorically enlightened by his intelligence.

>>18552909

Indeed it is so!
Having established the fact that you disagree with my approach, and furthermore my metaphysics, I accept that I won't be convincing you. However, I have yet to see a strong objection to the positions I've put forward.

Since you have practiced for so long, then, can you tell me anything in magick which has benefited you in any non-superficial way? What good has it done you? And why did you seek it out in the first place?

Last night I was happy to read through The Te of Piglet. Hoff is repetitive and doesn't have much to offer, but it was an entertaining read. To connect this with previous questions, what are your thoughts on wu wei? Does it affect your esoteric stance?

>>18552934
>However, I have yet to see a strong objection to the positions I've put forward.
You must have missed my synopsis of Abhinavagupta's take on the function and purpose of Maya.

>can you tell me anything in magick which has benefited you in any non-superficial way?
Everything yoga does with quicker induction and longer after-effects. You know, that whole reason the Vajrayana moves practitioners from bare yoga into sadhana?

>What good has it done you
>>18552901
>How can "good" or "bad" qualifiers even be associated with it?

>And why did you seek it out in the first place?
>>18552785
>all things are necessary and proper

>what are your thoughts on wu wei?
Valid, though not really my actual preference of conception.

>Does it affect your esoteric stance?
I dunno, how many times have we both said "necessary and proper" ITT.

>>18552947
>Abhinavagupta's take on the function and purpose of Maya.
I disagree with the premise of "purpose".

>Everything yoga does with quicker induction and longer after-effects. You know, that whole reason the Vajrayana moves practitioners from bare yoga into sadhana?
I have seen many reports on various practices of yoga resulting in certain effects. But these are all things I would still consider superficial; unless you are engaging in the actualization of nonduality, e.g. sitting in a state of ego death, then of what value could any of those effects actually be? Who really gives a damn if I can melt a ring of snow around me through my devoted Tummo practice?
If you gain consistent insight, that's one thing. But calling on Paimon to change your girlfriend's mind and stop her from dumping you is what I mostly see out of /x/, and I'm confused as to why there isn't a bigger movement here which points out the absurdity and triviality of those actions, whether they are successful or not (in the magician's mind).

>Valid, though not really my actual preference of conception.
If I live in accordance with wu wei, I am awarded the peace of mind which prevents undue placement of value on certain experiences. Without that sense of value, I have no purpose in trying to bring about change in accordance with my Will. My Will is in line with the natural law -- for you, I guess, the law of Thelema -- and so I will things to be as they are. In terms of practice, one might say that my "magick" is infinitely more effective than that of your average Kabbalist. ;P

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Convenient redirection is convenient.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nx6VIXpRZvw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3pAb7DMILYI
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sycoh3fVJ4M
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A-pmL96Cl9U

>>18552972
>I disagree with the premise of "purpose".
I mean, Shiva obviously fabricated reality with maya as a component for some rreason.

>>18552972
>But these are all things I would still consider superficial
>>18552901
>I am sitting blissfully and enjoying what I'm doing. If you are doing the same, there is no complaint here. If you aren't doing the same... maybe meditate a little more?

>>18552974
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHdHN5UPqms

>>18552883
tl;dr your entire argument is invalidated by the very first statement in your first post, you admittedly fail to understand the people you are commenting on. You have admitted ignorance and incomprehension therefore the rest of your argument is irrelevant. Here allow me to illustrate:

String theory, I just don't understand it.
Now Im going to type 3000 words about it, even though I just stated I do not understand the topic.

Do you see how dumb this is?

>>18552974
Hey Palo, I am the tongueanon, do you think that throwing the tongue into a lake would be ok? Or maybe the water element can interfere with the work?

>>18553047
>do you think that throwing the tongue into a lake would be ok?
Tie it to a weight, maybe a brick or cinder block.

Ok, so now I have a lot of sources on gnosticism, but what about the basics? what do you do? meditation and detaching?

There's this book called necronomicon gnosis, should I go this way so I can lure things with tentacles into coming to earth?

>>18553047

Hucking it in fire or a burial in earth feels like it may be a more natural choice, given the energies those elements bring to the table. Simply my perspective, however.

>>18553033

Pray tell, if I am not a follower of Hermeticism, how am I to truly understand the thoughts of those who are? If I am not a follower of Christianity, how am I to truly understand the thoughts of those who are?

Demonstrate to me that you have any knowledge on any subject and tell me how you came to have that knowledge. Surely, for any topic other than your own experience, someone else knows it better than you do -- so much so that any knowledge you have on the subject is essentially nothing. For example, you might understand physics in a Newtonian sense, but Quantum physicists could probably demonstrate that your understanding is completely inept (even if by a layman's standard, you're very well read).

By your own reasoning, there's really no point at which anyone should say anything about any subject, because they can't possibly have complete understanding of that subject -- and given that they don't have complete understanding, it's entirely possible that new information will show that all of the previously held information was false or incomplete. I have probably read as many occult books as you, though it's possible that I haven't. What claim to superiority in this field of understanding do you claim to have which would invalidate my points?

>>18553083
>what do you do
Really, this whole thing will look more like regular Christism than you'd expect.

It would be somewhat wise to root your practice in Coptic, Syrian, Ethiopian, or Indic church practice, as they're more open to alternative Christological formulas while keeping the basic outline of the Nicaean Creed (Armenian creed is nice).

Combine this with contemplative methods. Particularly those of Mirror of Simple Souls. Maybe some low-impact occultism of the Rosicrucian variety.

After that it's a matter of specialized interest.

>>18553156
>how am I to truly understand the thoughts of those who are?
Exactly.

>Demonstrate to me
I've made no claims or statements besides the one's Ive already supported. You are ignorant by your own admission and that makes your argument not worth hearing. I am not delivering any diatribes on subjects that Im not familiar with so I don't need to prove anything.

>someone else knows it better than you do
Again, if so, Ill let them comment because I don't talk about things I am admittedly ignorant about.

>they can't possibly have complete understanding of that subject
I didnt ask for complete understanding, I didnt ask for anything actually, I stated the fact that if you admit your own ignorance on a topic, your argument is probably not worth listening to.

> I have probably read as many occult books as you, though it's possible that I haven't.
What was the point of this statement? "I have, or have not read more occult books than you."? Yes that covers literally every person and possibility, well done.

>What claim to superiority in this field
I never made a claim.

>which would invalidate my points?
I didn't invalidate your points, you did.

>>18553066
>>18553119
Thank you!

>>18553224

You're trying to make a basic linguistic argument about my presentation. I admitted openly that I'm not an expert, thusly I asked questions. If I knew the answers to everything, I wouldn't have asked any questions at all. But the fact that I'm not an expert in the field doesn't make my points incorrect.

Regardless of whether you've got a Ph.D. in philosophy or not, you can still use syllogisms just as effectively as Aristotle. If something is true, the qualities of the person presenting the information are unimportant. You claim that my points are invalidated fallaciously.

But very well, if I'm incorrect, demonstrate to me why I'm incorrect and I will be happy to consider your argument seriously. You could've done that already but you were too busy relying on a fallacy which, I'm sorry, I won't accept.

>>18553239

It would seem as though your horns are preventing you from going through the door. Nobody can change that but you.

>>18553239
>You're trying to make a basic linguistic argument
No I clearly stated what I was doing, read it again if you require clarification.

>thusly I asked questions
Your rhetorical questions were not an honest line of inquiry. They were intended to deride others who by your own admission you fail to understand. Do not be intellectually dishonest, it's a disservice to yourself.

>the fact that I'm not an expert in the field doesn't make my points incorrect.
I never said that, I said that your argument about people you do not understand was uninformed and you have just corroborated this.

>If something is true, the qualities of the person presenting the information are unimportant.
We're not discussing hard science or demonstrable science. We are discussing people, and their subjective points of view.

Look I understand that this conversation is bristly rude and unproductive. If you had come to this conversation with genuine and honest curiosity instead of veiled superiority, rhetorical questions and personal insults, the conversation would have been considerably different.

I honestly regret that you chose that, it's a tremendous loss of potential.

In fact, here, let's do it this way, you have "won" this argument. I am completely in agreement with you that we are all failed lunatics who though a purely selfish desire and lack of understanding have become fools and drowned ourselves in illusion and cheap tricks.
Congratulations, I am a complete convert.

Now what sempai? Direct the fucking thread since you are now the reigning champion of intellectual discourse and spiritual knowledge, dole out them universal truths. Were listening.

>>18553193
>Armenian creed is nice
I'm surprised you find nice a christian creed since I always see you with a very anti-christian posture. Care to elaborate?

>>18553239
While I agree with you in principle that there is no shortage of charlatanism in occult circles and that this board is full of idiot teenagers summoning bored goetic princes to win back their girlfriends, there is also no shortage of fake yogis who fall into a vague trance stage and think that they are now the singular arbiters of nondual realization in an illusory world. If what you had to offer was so much greater than another's path you would have ways to demonstrate that wisdom outside of the illusory and profane nature of words. Why not let things be? Is your concern trolling really in line with the Tao?

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>>18553047
Dont throw it into water unless you are wanting to dispose of the spell.
I was always taught that if you want to cancel a spell, you throw it in the river or in the lake and so on.
What do you plan on doing to the tongue as far as working it?
And are you wanting to know how to cancel it, or do you need to know where to leave this thing to get it out of your house but let it keep working?

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>>18553323
And......cue the crickets.
I just cant believe you guys fed that thing so long.
I was worried you were trying to keep it as a pet.
Is anyone else getting any of this rain with thunder?
Storm system in North Central GA woods right now.
Siete Rayos and Centrella are out dancing tonight.
Tonight is a good night for working with the dead.
If you have any square head iron nails, they can be used for necromancy.
Combine them with grave dirt or graveyard dirt to increase their potency.
The easiest form of necromancy is using cards, a pendulum, or a talking board to contact the dead and ancestors.
One tip I have found over time, spirits appear to be repelled by bright lights so attempt your conversatiln in a dimly lit room.
I have had more success in dimly lit rooms than in well lit rooms overall.
You can use a deck of poker playing cards as a medium for contacting the dead.
For yes or no questions red cards mean yes, black cards mean no.
Hearts are firm yeses.
Diamonds are more than likely.
Clubs are less than likely.
Spades are firm no.
Keep this to yes or no questions for best results.
It is possible to get mixed signals, as with any technique.
You dont need any magick words or special hand waving to work with the dead, as far as I know.
They are generally eager to talk, but it can take a while for them to answer the phone.
Be patient and cautiously receptive and eventually you will have luck.
If you have chocolate or pomegranate, leave some in a bowl on the porch for Oya if shes passing through your area too.

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This seem like the right place to post this.

This woman organizes witch hunts in africa under the name of christianism, this witch hunts end with tortured kids and old ladies, it's really bad, now that /pol/ has a new interest in african nations, it could be a great time to worry about this.

>>18554203
>river or lakes
What if you're landlocked? How does one keep it working?

If there's a recipe like this with easy to acquire ingredients for tongue tying work, is there one for eloquence and persuasiveness available to use in job interviews?

>>18554203
>cancel a spell, you throw it in the river or in the lake and so on.
Interesting, I was taught that if a spell is disposed of in a flowing river, it is to send away influences which the spell dealt with. Gotta get rid of magical remnants somehow.

I personally think I would either bury it or throw it in a river, either way the tongue would get returned to nature, which is good.
>where to leave this thing to get it out of your house but let it keep working?
Nail it to your enemies door, it may not stop them talking but they will certainly be more careful of talking about the psycho who nails tongues to doors.

>>18554718
>cue the crickets.
yeah I wasn't expecting much more
> just cant believe you guys fed that thing so long.
I get baited easily.

>Tonight is a good night for working with the dead.
Do you work on sundays? I know some do and some dont, I tend to take it as my magical day off, it's for the creator/source/whatever Bondye/Eledumare etc.

>spirits appear to be repelled by bright lights
I have noticed this as well, and it's weird because they happily accept the setting of lights as offering "food". Ive found they are a little less apprehensive if the lighting in the room is from "their" light, and not a bunch of other lights, especially artificial lights, maybe that's just me.

I like your simple playing card method. have you ever worked with playing cards in a more complicated manner?

>Oya
She also likes red wine (the deep purple dark stuff if possible and pennies (not silver coins, copper).

>>18554734
This is not a new phenomenon. Much of african rural life revolves around magical practice, witches, the prevention of witches, whos been cursed by who and why. This is much less prevalent in the larger cities. Its also interesting that magical practice and superstition doesnt really go down a whole lot in the city, but this witch hunt mentality does.

I'm not sure what /pol/ has to do with sociopolitical mechanisms in coastal nigeria though

>>18554203
I don't want to cancel it, but yeah I'm wondering where to leave it since I can't leave it in my apartment

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>>18555063
>What if you're landlocked? How does one keep it working?
Throwing it in water is not to keep it working, it's to dispose of it. If you want to keep the spell running and functional, I recommend clearing a spot in your freezer. Keeps it from getting stank and adds the sympathetic element of freezing their tongue.

>is there one for eloquence and persuasiveness available to use in job interviews?
I don't think I've heard of anyone using a beef tongue style spell like we were talking about for eloquence, that's more in the realm of oils/powders/gris-gris or some lightweight candle magic.

If you wanted to get fancy, you could do a honey jar with the hiring persons name/picture/effects.

Pic related in that it is technically a honey jar spell, but I mostly posted it because this persons sense of scale is a little off. Its supposed to be a candle on top of a honey jar, not a honey jar under a CANDLE.

>>18555575
can you wrap it up in butcher paper and stick it in the fridge, maybe stick a label on there so people dont go getting into it?

>>18555607
freezer, not fridge.

what are some central features of western magick traditions compared to other regional variants of systems?

what I've extracted is that there's deep rooting in greek ideals like geometry and form and less emphasis on something like a dharma

>>18555625
Personally I don't see a big east/west separation in magickal traditions, what I see is a dualism/non-dualism separation, and we see this in every culture, east & west.

>>18555631

what would be examples of more "dualistic" magickal traditions?

>>18555642
anything which actively pursues a philosophy involving "left" and "right" handedness, "black" and "white" magic, good vs evil stuff. It's present all over the place.

>>18555653

>anything which actively pursues a philosophy involving "left" and "right" handedness

most of those traditions other than say, Laveyan Satanism, usually incorporate but acknowledge both

Buddhism and most any other "non-dualistic" practice has skillful means and right view, implying there are unskillful means and incorrect view, maybe I haven't done enough acid yet but there are clearly paths like exoteric Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity that place emphasis on something like a social dharma and compassion first, and focusing on anything is heavily discouraged

>>18555679
>most of those traditions other than say, Laveyan Satanism, usually incorporate but acknowledge both

I'm not sure I agree with that assertion.

>implying there are unskillful means and incorrect view
If they are implying a right and wrong way or a good and bad way, theyre still rooted in dualism.

>>18555720

>If they are implying a right and wrong way or a good and bad way, theyre still rooted in dualism.

well even along those lines there aren't any magickal systems consisting solely of bashing your head against the wall repeatedly to achieve whatever desired (I'd love to be proved wrong here), because that's probably a bad way to do it

what would you consider among the most non-dualistic traditions, systems, texts, or rituals?

>>18555738
>even along those lines there aren't any magickal systems consisting solely of bashing your head against the wall repeatedly to achieve whatever desired

Im not sure exactly what you're saying here... but.

>what would you consider among the most non-dualistic traditions, systems, texts, or rituals?

What would I consider the most non dualist? Probably the afro-carribean traditions, but Im also biased in that. I'm not sure how to answer that question, a system either boils down to a belief in two extremes, or it doesn't.

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>>18555607
I cant. I know that if I put it in the freezer somebody will open it to see whats inside the bag (Is not like I mind, desu). The acid+quicklime sounds good. I can put it in an abandoned place, I guess. I'm open to ideas.

You guys are very helpful. Thanks a lot.

>>18555604
>Pic related in that it is technically a honey jar spell, but I mostly posted it because this persons sense of scale is a little off. Its supposed to be a candle on top of a honey jar, not a honey jar under a CANDLE.

Sorry I'm a bit dense but are you saying a smaller candle would work better?What size should the candle be?

>>18555604
To make these spells work do you need to deal with spirits before? or just the intention is enough?

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>>18555565
Even if it's not a new phenomenon it's one of those things we can openly complain about and could actually yield results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUeKBibBN0I

She made this movie and this are the results.

http://www.nairaland.com/3585092/little-child-tortured-days-over

http://www.nairaland.com/2592831/65-yr-old-woman-gets

This sounds hard to believe, but it's what's happening.

Heya guys, there was talk on /pol/ regarding masonry, I noticed there was a murrican whose hardon for Dragon Rouge was notable, though he never seemed much knowledgeable himself, in any case my only experience with them is receiving a pamphlet where they made some wild claims about godhood in universe b.
What do you think about them?

>>18556371
Is that thing between the woman's hands in the poster supposed to be a massive dong? Cause that's what it looks like..

>>18556518
There isn't a occultic bone left in Masonry, It's just another gentlemen's club now.

>>18556853
I'm not talking about masonry though, I asked about Dragon Rouge, whom claim magehood not gentlemanry.

>>18523891
How's the scanning going Ape?

Been a while since we've had an update.

>>18557119
Slowly. Semester just started so I'm fuckbusy again. I'm gonna try to stuff some food down my gullet, smoke a joint, and get back to the task.

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>>18527895
>>18528313
>>18529221

Ganesha removes all obstacles unless it's an intentional obstacle set up by a Buddhist to protect esoteric knowledge.

Hence why you have Mahakala trampling Ganesha in certain instances or "disagreements"

Mahakala is the wrathful form of Shiva and consort of Kali so he ain't just some random ass buddhist deity

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>>18555575
Leave it near the enemys house.
Throw it under their porch if they have one and you can without being caught.
Or put it under their front steps.
Its best to leave it somewhere they cross over consistantly.
Next best I would say would be railroad tracks to get Zarabandas help.
He loves a good fight and cracking some skulls.

>>18555565
>Do you work on sundays?
I always work on Tuesdays and then any other day or night with convenient circumstances.
I dont really take a specific day off.
>maybe that's just me
Ive noticed they dont mind candles, or dim natural outdoor light sources.
Ive also had luck with christmas lights as the only light source.
When I was younger, I had a looooong string of christmas lights above the molding trim in my bedroom all the way around my room.
I used it for light at night.
It was a dim light source, but still bright enough to see a little.
It was pretty much the brightness level of using multiple candles at different locations in the room.
I have had no luck with light from larger bulbs in lamps or overhead fixtures.
At the time, I was making my own talking boards with a woodburning kit and scrap wood and I pretty much had a familiar non human spirit that came and went at its leisure (or at least at the time it seemed that way).
Things got a little too heavy, and I had to extract myself from the "living" situation eventually.
Anywho, I feel like anything above 50 watt bulb or so repells them.

>>18556205
No experience required.
This one doesnt require any spirit work, unless you decide to add some extra flavor.

>>18556371
Im aware of this.
Its a symptom of Yahwehism.
This is what happens when you forcibly convert indigenous peoples and then scamper off into the night.
You know, like a cockroach...scampering.
Scuttling off to go spread its disease somewhere else....
Im just going to stop. Now.

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>>18557488
>Ganesha removes all obstacles unless it's an intentional obstacle set up by a Buddhist to protect esoteric knowledge.
Thats just TOO convenient sounding for me.
So convenient that it sounds fishy.
So, I just have to disagree with you with the acknowledgement that Tibetan mural art is fucking awesome.
Time tramples everything and does not give a fuck.
I would say thats the real reason for that iconography.
"Intentional obstacles" frankly sounds like special snowflake bullshit - there is no logical reason a diety or spirit should give a flying fuck who learns about their practices or how they learn about them.
Attributing human emotions to spiritual entities or concepts is wholly human in origin so our mind can comfortably wrap around it.
In reality, not a fuck is given about you or "esoteric knowledge" elitism.

>>18557488
Why everyone has the head leaning to the right? (Or their left)

>>18558321
Actually nowhere in the bible can I read about kid witches, seems to be an african belief, don't be surprised to see christian voodoo either, I think I read a book on the latter, but memory is a mess right now, so dont ask for details.

>>18559751
Thou shall not suffer a witch to live.
Exodus 22:18
My grandmother taught Sunday School my entire childhood.

>>18559789
The point is, no matter what the age, Yahweh teaches that witches are to be hunted down and killed.
Clmbine that with an indigeous culture that depends on folk healers, mediums, and the like and youre asking for trouble.
Plain and simple.

>>18559796
And, finally,
"This is no surprise. The Bible’s attitude towards children is fairly disturbing. There are places in the Bible that say that parents who spare the rod hate their children, that folly is in the heart of children and the rod is needed to drive it out, that tell parents to “not withhold” punishment with the rod if they want to save the child’s soul from death, that state that a rod and reprimand brings wisdom but an undisciplined child is a disgrace, and that even state that disobedient children must be stoned to death."

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/barrierbreaker/the-old-testament-verse-thou-shalt-not-suffer-a-witch-to-live-is-killing-people-in-africa-stop-transporting-it/

I always say "know your enemy", well I know this Yahweh bastard pretty damn well so dont think you can slip that past me without a rebuttal.
Mine is a well informed hatred and disdain.
And dont EVEN start that New Covenant Old Covenant bullshit.

>>18556832
They make a woman grow a dong, it's one of the witches powers.

Watch the movie, or read the book.

>>18559805
That book knows more about humans than you, want proof?
In the beginning Adam is created from dust, he then evolves losing a rib and Eve appears, after that, their diet (forbidden fruit) makes their brain evolve and they start knowing right from wrong, at this time snakes evolve too, losing their legs as observed in fossils, finally Cain is expelled and finds other fellow humans.

Boom, evolution in front of us for thousands of years.

>>18559805
>New Covenant
Here is some wisdom from the meek Jesus:

Luke 14:26-27
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Matthew 10:34-36
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

He also was not fond of pigs and fig trees that did not bear fruit out of the proper season. But He liked wine.

I also love that story where a former sinner woman washed Jesus feet with an expensive perfume worth one year of income.
Judas (yeah, that one): "Uh, I think we should sell this and give the money to the poor."
Jesus: "The poor will be always with us. We can help them anytime later, but not now."
And then later the Catholic Church was selling indulgences.

TL;DR Fuck them all, the entire family is rotten. If they really exist, they are not my friends.

>>18559805

if you just interpret it as yahweh trying to get rid of the opposition, it makes perfect sense tho

which means, he's not the "only" god, but a wanna be upstart who wants to carve out a niche for himself in the most brutal and efficient way possible (at the expense of other people and gods)

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>>18559805

Taken at face value, many things in the Bible are horrific. This is a book wherein the boundaries of hyperbole, examples of what not to do, and unvarnished truth are intentionally not defined; It is intentionally polarizing, so that it would be passed along even by those who still "Sleep", so that even a few could find the hidden truths and use them to continue shaping the world for the better. With a grain of salt, and some reflection, there is important wisdom, however. In regards to the example in this post, I sincerely agree with the message. Before there is a kneejerk reaction to that statement, I would like for whoever reads this to stop, and honestly consider what I'm about to say without letting bias interfere.

A child who is not disciplined, will develop in to an adult who is not prepared to bring benefit to the world and his fellow man. Negative reinforcement is the common mans effective method of programming children; Children test the boundaries of adults during development to see what is acceptable within society as a whole. A child tempered with suffering and joy, is one who will know what it is to suffer, and seek to ease the suffering of others. Now, as for stoning a child to death... Well, a truly despicable child-- One who does things like torture animals, and bring torment to others for joy; They will never be cured of those evil tendencies within life, and it is better to prune them for the sake of the world as a whole.

>>18560027
>but a wanna be upstart
Yahweh was already a very well established Semitic war deity though.

>>18560220
Yes, children must be disciplined and have limits. But...
>put fruit in the garden
>say don't eat it
>knowing it would be eaten, for God knows it all
>God could have made the humans so that they would not eat the fruit
>they eat the fruit and are punished
Nothing strange here. The punishment was the point.

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sorry about the late response
>>18556194
yes, much smaller, the one in the other image is almost comically large, pic related is much more typical.

>>18556205
intention is fine, it depends on your methods and beliefs, but intention should work fine.

>>18556371
oh Im not saying its not a huge fucking problem, its terrible and sad, but the solution is better education and modernization. Its a tall order right now. Id like to see it happen as well, but solutions are in short supply. The native systems have ways of dealing with witches which arent so brutalist, but luckily once again, abrahamic violence to the rescue!

>>18558321
>I feel like anything above 50 watt bulb or so repells them.
Im actually not sure if it repels them, or if it fucks up our ability to receive and perceive them, part of me thinks it is the latter, unnatural light really fucks us up more than we know.

>>18559805
you know you're wasting your breath.

>>18559941
Apologism? Really? In /omg/? top kek.

>>18560220
>They will never be cured of those evil tendencies within life
That's terribly presumptuous especially with the advent of modern medicine, I'm not sure relying on bronze age "child care" is relevant. Maybe we just shouldn't kill any kids and we should think of that as a bad thing? Just a thought.

>>18560264
Yes, I imagine a roleplaying spellcaster would laugh at biblical insight, as someone to whom God personally revealed Himself and gifted heaven without the requirement to keep anything I am amused at your amusement, as He showed me not only the sphere of heaven, where I was ascending but also the fires of hell from where laments rose.
I'd be careful with this roleplayed spellcasting, lest He become annoyed.

>>18560421
>laugh at biblical insight
I'm not laughing at biblical insight, I'm laughing at you. Christian apologetics is ridiculous. Men do not have fewer ribs, the forbidden fruit in the case of evolutionary brain growth was probably fish, not fruit, and there is ample evidence that "right and wrong" were understood long before modern human brain development. This was FAR after "snake evolved to lose their legs". The bible only states that Cain left the lords presence and dwelt in the land of Nod, east of eden, it says nothing about meeting other people.

There is precisely zero evidence for early awareness of the evolutionary process in genesis, or in the bible.

Believe in the bible all you want, look to it for inspiration or spirituality or whatever, but don't attempt to cite it as a scientific work, it doesn't pass muster, and apologetics is a futile effort.

>He showed me not only the sphere of heaven
Oh I see, you are gods chosen mouthpiece and chosen one, and I'm a roleplayer. I'll just let everyone else draw their own conclusions about that and refrain from commenting.

>I'd be careful with this roleplayed spellcasting, lest He become annoyed.
Yeah, I'm terrified now (which is the goal right?), thanks for awakening me, I'll be sure to get to church right away. Thanks for your time.