Mexican Witchcraft & My Dad's Experiences With It

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>>18434822
Bump

My dad grew up with his grandparents, since both of his parents split on him when he was very young, so his grandfather knew a lot of people where they lived.

So my dad told me another tale of a different cursed person. He said, a witch put what a black magic on some guy and he ended up wandering around aimlessly in his grandfather's cornfield, looking like he was lost. So when my dad's grandfather went to see what the guy was doing on his land, the guy acted just "out of it," like he had no idea why he was there or anything. Apparently, the guy was well-off and either his wife had the black magic put on him or someone put the black magic on the guy and his wife, since shortly after, she left him and went with a different guy for no reason at all.

He mentioned that the lady who was cursed who had run into cacti and just acting crazy, they called the Loca (La Loca), and her mother was also cursed. They ended up having to take both of them to a place in Mexico called Trancoso to see a differerent witch to put white magic on them and remove the black magic.

Here's another one that personally affected me. Kind of strange. So, back in 2001, my dad just up and left us randomly for about 6-10 months (can't remember exactly how long). Just, an out of the blue kind of thing. My parents used to argue and bitch at each other from time to time, and my mother was really hateful. So I figured being about 11 or so, that my dad had had enough of her bullshit and just left. Sure I was pissed, but what could you do.

Anyway, since he left without a word, my mom called in a missing person's report on him, found out he'd all but cleaned out the bank account, credit cards, etc. and boogied on out of the state. After a few days, sherrif's dept concluded he left of his own volition since no one was coercing him to doing what he did, and closed it up as "lol your husband done left your ass."

So, as an 11 year old with a completely blind mother, I got the duty of playing detective when I wasn't at school. We searched for whatever family we could find on his side and asked around about him. Most weren't very helpful and seemed almost secretive about letting us know anything about him, but the ones who did pointed us to California. We found out he'd taken one of his uncles to Mexico to deliver a small truck to his family's farm or something.

He'd also stopped by to see the white witch, called Don Juan (I almost laugh at that name when my dad mentions it). He asked Don Juan if my mother had been cursed with black magic since my mom had a mysterious brain tumor develop that destroyed her eyesight, and at times seemed like she had a bad case of bipolar disorder, and just randomly got SUPER bitchy at us for no reason.

Don Juan, after looking at the photos my dad showed of us, said that there was a lady that both my parents knew, who had a curse put on my mom. (my dad's words) "He said, they put a frog on her eyes, and a curse on her spirit to make her act like a bitch."

(tbc)

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>>18434822
>He also talks about people being cursed with black chickens.

Yep, thats a thing.
You can use them to remove a curse, or purify a person too.
Lurking since this is related to my interests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXm0IX9aiBA&index=5&list=PLbSRCnxsLhfUGzaGRkHYNXGiJ330DhQTx

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>>18434822
>>18434901
>>18434925
Mexican magic sounds similar to meme magic.

Further information will be appreciated, OP.

Maybe you can tell us about how the magical tradition is interwoven with the native cultures of the Mayans and Aztecs?

Lastly, I would like to know how Capsicum and Theobroma are used in Mexican magic, because the plant genera are not used widely enough in other traditions.

>>18434822
>He also talks about people being cursed with black chickens.
Interesting, (black) chickens are also a witch "ingredient" here in Romania

>>18435013
Is that a Vlach tradition?

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>>18434822
In Mexico the worship of the death Saint is still common among Catholics.

Its a carry over form the Aztec culture of death worship.

The saint is decried as false by the Mexican Catholic and Roman catholic church. Worship of the Death saint is common among people that are criminals and involved with the cartel.

The most common is Santa Muerte in Mexico.
Depicted as lady death she watches over gamblers, prisoners, drug dealers etc.
THey give her offerings as she doesn't judge and will bless anyone if you give her proper offerings and homage. Agian why those that do illegal activities are drawn to her for protection.

Further south in Argentina you have the more traditional version. A male saint more directly connected to "Ah Puch" (pronounced Auh Pu-osh) names San La Muerte.

The death saint has a closed and open cult.
The closed is private and usually black based on curses and more powerful aspect, while the open cult is white and is allowed to be seen by others. This is why you see statues in public etc. The black closed aspect is not allowed to be seen by anyone other than the owner and is uaully kept in a shrine/cubbard/closet of worship.

I cna go on if interested.
>Actual practicioner

>>18435086
>I cna go on if interested.
Please proceed to explain.

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>>18435097
What do you want to know about?
CLosed sect?
Open sect?
rituals?
Modernization and crossing lines?
Offerings?

>pic of a closed sect, small alter. (not supposed to be shown but the owner is an idiot and posted a picture of it)

>>18435128
Closed sect please.
A to Z introductory.

>>18435046
dont think so.

>>18435128
>Modernization and crossing lines?
>Offerings?

These two topics are the items that I can best respond to with a scientific analysis to remain open-source for the sake of public safety.

The other topics are also interesting, if you want to explain those as well.

>>18435146
Might it be Roma?

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>>18435137
The closed sect I can't give you limited info on obviously. as its for the initiated and not public.
But I can cover the basics.

The closed sect is agian usually for stronger magic. Usually black specifically.

One thing you should note is in this sect the hand holding the scyth is the LEFT hand, (Left hand path) while the white aspect (public/open)is usually holding it in the right hands. as you see with the OPs pic, the common ones sold are show like this as they are allowed to be in the open.

The days associated with this aspect are Monday Saturday (SOMETIMES Friday).
hours between 00:00 - 03:00 And other hours governed by Saturn.
Celestial: Saturn and luna/moon
Metals Lead, copper, gold silver (sometimes Iron)
Stones: Onyx, rubyy, obsidian, jet.
Colors: Black (open white, sometimes red or green aswell for different aspects/needs)
Cardnal points: North, west.
numbers 3, 7, 13, 182(secret)
Elements: wind of soul, chthonic fire, water of death.
Animals are the black dog, pig(sometimes), snake, raven (sometimes Owl) scorpion.

Candles are black, red, half red/black, half black/whiteetc.

Common food offerings Raw pork chops, pig or lamb heart, pigs blood unsalted bread, chopped onion etc.
99% of his working is Necromancy, as most rituals require cemetery items or bones. The beginer initate is usually taught how to barter with the dead and how to take things from cemetaries without pissing off the lord of deaht and the price of said itesm you must offer in return.

Most offerings given at your alter are roses or carnations, raw pork, peppers, tobacco, beer, red whine, Rum/vodka (rum preferably)taquilla, marijuana.

Never salt.

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>>18435156
Most modernization is teh two versions Ive mentiond.
San La Muerte (SLM)
Male saint/lord of death.

Santa Muerte
Female GODESS (sometimes saint)

AN even more modernized version is crossing the lines of death and the bloody scythe weilder with more biblican traditions... equating him as an aspect of Qayin, the first murderer and tiller of the earth. (obvious reasons) and the first to bring the end to Eden.

I dabble in this extremely modern Qayin line.

In some forms he also associated with Chronos (god of time and tiller/scythe weilder) as liek with many religions these aspects cross and have similar identities.

>I ask this picture of Sancte Qayin not be saved or spread more than it already has been.

>>18435169
maybe.
suspect usual rural folk magic, though.

>>18434822
Some youtubes on the saint.
Normie level nothing too, too informing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssI96kBTQF4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ds3ebUm-VU

Alex Johnes has done several videos sperging about the death worshipers too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErWteSb69Ik

I remember some brujas called me diablo. And wouldn't make eye contact with me, or they'd totally avoid me.

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>>18435186
Is there any similarity between Santa Muerte and Oya/Centrella?

Ive read Falxifer, and youve pretty much confirmed some of my thoughts on that book.

Lets talk Xipe too.
I feel like there is a little bit of the Flayed One in the Reaper.
Am I totally off base?

>>18434993
Mexifag here. Most people are catholic and our natives live secluded from the rest of society; so you really don't see aztec/mayan motifs related to witchcraft. The figure of Death (La Santa Muerte, La Parca) is ever present, though.

>>18434993
That's because meme magic operates under the same principals as all other kinds of magic: ideas and purely psychological forces such as will or desire can make tangible changes in the world that can't be verifiably correlated with cause and effect. It's all magical thinking. Everything else is just window dressing.

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>>18435305
The problem is MOST death deities cross in some form.

Xipe has similarities in many ways.
Death, aggriculture smithing etc.

Most death deities are attributed to being the originators of agg and technology. As tehcnology was needed to properly harvest.

The aztecs and Mayans had numerous Death gods usually 7-9 depending on who you ask. So its hard to nail them down without them overlapping directly or indirectly, much less with other gods of death form other cultures.


>>18435303
Brujera is becoming quite common aswell in south/central America and even parts of the USA mroe closely related to the Caribbean (new orleans New york etc).

>>18434993
Wish I could shed light on those for you, but my dad doesn't like to talk more about what he witnessed when he was growing up - he just claims it's super evil and doesn't like to think about it if he can help it. I'm glad to see others posting helpful info about it - it's been bugging the crap out of me for over 10 years now.

>>18435086
Can you give more information about the open sect? For instance, does the open sect have the ability to (sorry for incorrect verbiage) "heal" those that have had black magic cast on them??

Also, how would one even get into the art of magic? My dad said the strangest thing about the people in his hometown is that they all went to church every Sunday, but some still practiced this art otherwise. Does it somehow tie into Catholicism in a way, or is it just leftover from "inheriting" the art?

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>>18435407
The open cult is usually associated with white magic and protection, yes.
Usually house protection and removal of the evil eye or curses.

MUCH less fickle and demanding form of death. Very indifferent and 90% non vengeful if libations/offerings are missed.

Most south american followers are self identified catholics. And as much as the church tried to dissuade followers of worshiping death (for obvious reasons: Jesus supposedly overcame/destroyed death, pagan worship etc.) they still do. Its either traditional as in inherited with family values as somone raised catholic stays catholic, or they have a need for the protection and seek her/him out.

I'm not from mexico so I can't say with confidence more than that about ti culturally and its followers and how they/most are introduced to it.

>>18435086
Does the icon have the same gender ubiquitously?

>"Ah Puch" (pronounced Auh Pu-osh) names San La Muerte.

Implies that there is external equivocation but internal acknowledgement.

>>18435128
Was the scythe used in mesoamerica as a pre-columbian tool?

>>18435186
>Common food offerings Raw pork chops, pig or lamb heart, pigs blood unsalted bread, chopped onion etc.

Good list. If they do any electrical engineering with the lighting around the altar, do they tend to use car batteries, or something more conventional(like lithium or nickel).

>The beginer initate is usually taught how to barter with the dead and how to take things from cemetaries without pissing off the lord of deaht and the price of said itesm you must offer in return.

That is good knowledge for /x/.

Technically you are describing heuristic means of microbiological sanitation for mortuary environments in mesoamerica.

>roses or carnations, raw pork, peppers, tobacco, beer, red whine, Rum/vodka (rum preferably)taquilla, marijuana.

What cut of pork is usually offered?

Do people bring other illegal drugs to offer in secret?

>Never salt.

I assume you mean table salt or sea salt.

Are certain types of more valuable salt to be used as an offering in special cases?

>Candles are black, red, half red/black, half black/whiteetc.

Do you know the colorants that practitioners historically prefer?

>>18435200
>AN even more modernized version is crossing the lines of death and the bloody scythe weilder with more biblican traditions

I would like to know which branch of catholicism produced that syncretism.

>equating him as an aspect of Qayin, the first murderer and tiller of the earth.

That bit is consistent with pre-Nicean, pre-Gothic, and pre-Arian Christianity in Northeastern Spain. Thusly the congruence in settlement patterns of Northwest Mexico and the pattern of worship emerges.

>I dabble in this extremely modern Qayin line.

I would like to learn more about it.

>In some forms he also associated with Chronos (god of time and tiller/scythe weilder) as liek with many religions these aspects cross and have similar identities.

That is an Elohist allegory in the historiography of the Eastern Mediterranean.

>I ask this picture of Sancte Qayin not be saved or spread more than it already has been..

I respect your license.

>>18435211
The Roma have some distal connection to Aghori.

If you let them provide medical marijuana in a controlled setting, then they might use their knowledge of ethnopharmacology in the western black sea to help with the Romanian healthcare system.

>>18435310
>so you really don't see aztec/mayan motifs related to witchcraft.

Is anything overheard or implied?

>The figure of Death (La Santa Muerte, La Parca) is ever present, though.

I'm thinking it may be resultant of a pre-columbian contact.

>>18435331
>That's because meme magic operates under the same principals as all other kinds of magic

If that were true, then we would not need to specify anything with a noun.

>>18435393
I meditated on your problem in terms of my own knowledge in herbalism and biophysics.

Give your mom epazote tea on a daily basis, and your dad will come back.

>>18435305
Hey Palo,
we always seem to meet at these crossroads when the topics come up.

As someone who has attachments to Brigitte (who is somewhat syncretic with Oya) and Santisima Muerte, they are different at a core level, they have overlap in their realms (as would Oya), but the mythology and lore behind Santa Muerte differs heavily from that of the ATR deities. I work with both of them, and I treat them pretty differently.

I think though, from what OP is talking about, were seeing something different here, OP keeps talking about something that has masculine characteristics and is taking masculine offerings, I think, if you're looking for a palo correspondence, you might want to look at El Christo Negro or maybe San Simon.

Correct me if Im wrong on that OP but your "saint death" seems to be masculine?

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>>18435669
>Do people bring other illegal drugs to offer in secret?

Yes. Nothing that speeds you up though. Depressants only.

>Are certain types of more valuable salt to be used as an offering in special cases?

No salt period.

>Do you know the colorants that practitioners historically prefer?

Pure black and red for closed. Pure white or pure green for open. (green was also used in closed for herb workings and mastering the "green")

>>18435684
>I would like to know which branch of catholicism produced that syncretism.

It was a combination of Brujera gnosis and Mexican Catholic influences. Mostly interpreted via missionaries in Brazil and Chile if im not mistaken.

>Thusly the congruence in settlement patterns of Northwest Mexico and the pattern of worship emerges.

Yes it fits very conveniently withe Mediterranean Catholicism and their south American Pagan faith.

>I would like to learn more about it.
Liber Falxifer is sought a lot for the beginnings, also Sabbatica I/II. Also Salve Honorous Mortis, but good luck finding a copy.

>>18434993
> the plant genera are not used widely enough in other traditions.

This is actually untrue, capsicum is used HEAVILY throughout most american traditions stemming from the african diaspora (much of South American and Mexican practices included).

Theobromines would be fairly unique to the Mexico/border medicine practices, but I think it's actually used a lot less than you would think for magical purposes. I don't know any correspondences for it actually.

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>>18435860
Ive mentions several deities at this point and I want to make it quite clear.

This is not a god/godess/saint you approach lightly. Just with all folk inspired magic it is exceptionally potent and even more so being a primal force of death.

Second and even more important arguably is never cross/mix dieties. If you begin worship/praxis,
You can gain gnosis form them and get inspiration as to suitable new offerings etc. But NEVER mix San La Muerte and Santa Muerta. Or any of them with the Qayin aspect or Chronos etc.

Every diety/saint must be kept separate or it muddles the currents and is a big taboo. VERY big taboo.

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>>18435860
>Yes. Nothing that speeds you up though. Depressants only.

Are edible fungi provided as an offering?
I intuit that might cause the same effect.

>No salt period.

Are works of plaster permitted?

>t was a combination of Brujera gnosis and Mexican Catholic influences.

That sounds like Kurdish and Lebanese influence, respectively.

>Mostly interpreted via missionaries in Brazil and Chile if im not mistaken.

Therein may be evidence of precolumbian contact.

>Yes it fits very conveniently withe Mediterranean Catholicism and their south American Pagan faith.

Pre-Nicean Basque Christianity chronicles the truncation of hominid speciation.

>Liber Falxifer is sought a lot for the beginnings, also Sabbatica I/II. Also Salve Honorous Mortis, but good luck finding a copy.

I am taking an academic approach for public good.

>>18435868
>This is actually untrue, capsicum is used HEAVILY throughout most american traditions stemming from the african diaspora (much of South American and Mexican practices included).

I was alluding to Eurasia, where the rise of trans-oceanic trade coincides with the fall of magic.

>>18435888
My approach serves as a secular ward against spiritual harm. I pray that I do not offend you.


Mood music for the holidays:
Los Reyos Magos - Aquabella ~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPqyWAqwPBM

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>>18435850
Hey hey.
Thats what I was wondering - if there any similarities, and what the differences were just for curiosities sake.
I dont care for Qayin currents per se.
I dont use them myself.
But, if there eere similarities to something else I already know about, I can compare and file in the memory banks.

Noted on Christo and Simon.
I was first intriqudd by black dog sacrifice ( reserved for Zarabando in Palo) and the black roosters that pop up everywhere.
The rooster is also associated with Jesus/Osun in Santeria. (Not Oshun, the river goddess sister of Yemaya. Osun is a different spirit Ive always assumed is male, but is almost more androgenous in the few times Ive heard mentions of it/him.)
Im wondering, is the black rooster associated with Qaying is a tongue in cheek mocking of this.
This sounds like a stereotypical cyclic time diety no matter what gender its taking.
But in the underworld aspect, also strikes me as a Hades/Persephone dynamic. Ive always considered Persephone a cyclic time diety as wwell, with some dying and rising aspects.
Im not sure WHY the closed sect is closed, because all of these concepts are pretty much common knowledge and accesible to anyone these days. Thats why I asked to be described the closed sect specifically.
>>18435860
Qayin bro, come out of the closet and get with the times. Were leaving you guys behind back there. You should stop in /omg/ once in a while, if you dont already. You and Xipe are welcome anytime. :)

>>18435650
no it's imported from spain.

>>18435868
Chocolate is used in love spells and as an offering to gods.

Theobroma is of Quetzalquatl.

>>18436058
>My approach serves as a secular ward against spiritual harm.

No offence taken, was simply a warning to those if they were using this thread as a beginners look into the practice. The two points made needed to be stated clearly for anyone planing on working with this style of necromancy.

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>>18436644
>Im not sure WHY the closed sect is closed, because all of these concepts are pretty much common knowledge and accesible to anyone these days. Thats why I asked to be described the closed sect specifically.

True but because we aren't allowed to explain much more to the uninitiated.
We arn't supposed to go into details about bartering with the dead and how/when. Or specifics in herbal formulas for incense or oils/mixtures.

The current has become quite well known and you can get most info online these days since people upload the books in PDF. THats all I can recommend without divulging too much publicly, as we are not supposed too.

As I mentioned If you want more info I'd download a PDF of Liber Falxifer. THe author has given his blessing for people to do this, and LF I goes into the closed sects and practices (vaguely) of San La Muerte the male aspect in south america.

LF II goes into Qayins wife and herbal formulas, but if you want to follow a similar line as LF definitely start with LF I, don't skip. to LF II/III as they are mostly focused on the Qayin line after LF I.

Salve Honoris Mortis is a closed sect look at Santa Muerte still within the 182 current. But as I mentioned it may be hard to get a copy, if at all.

>>18434822
OP, tell us some more Dad stories.
It sounds like your dad came back.
But, what else did the witch tell him?
What happened after that?

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OP from another thread here. My friends and I found this in an abandoned brewery in my hometown. Some anons from that thread pointed me here.

>Pic related.

>>18437101
Clearly it isnt abandoned than hah.
Leave it alone, its clearly very fresh. (less this pic was taken long ago)

Private shrines lose power when others see them, (thus a big no-no) clearly he didn't want ti being seen if it was in an abandoned building.

Was it facing North?
Apples are usually for open shrines, odd its multi colored and left handed yet was hidden in an abandoned location.

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>>18437101
Was the wine sweet or sour?

Obviously it would send a clear message to any intruders if he left out a glass of sweet white wine for them

>>18437210
Facing North? I'm not sure. Wasn't paying attention. And we left it alone. Just thought it was an interesting find. Usually we just find lame and typical graffiti.

>>18437220
Ahhh we didn't touch any of it (in case perhaps the one who left it all there was still in the building).

>>18437220
Never take/taste/eat/drink offerings left at an alter.
They are not for you, they are for the Icon.

If you do you are cursed.

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>>18437346
Hahaha
Kids these days..
afraid of a haunted cup... hahahaha..

>>18437346

Bump

Interesting thread need more info on Mexican brujeria and death worship

>>18435702
The only native stuff i've heard of are the "aluxes". Supposedly, these are gnome like creatures, live underground, and kidnap babies to raise them as their own shamans/magicians.

>>18435723
Are you trying to say she was too flatulent?

>>18438525
>aluxes
That is an interesting point. Wikipedia mentions a tradition of building miniature houses for aluxob.

Does it relate to the folklore about cenotes?

>>18438767
No, is that the assumed implication?

>>18438525
Tfw grew up in southern nevada desert.
Tfw see what I described as a "mexican lepracaun or native american gnome"
Tfw tried to catch it and it played with me by teleporting around

>>18434822
>hexes
>black magic
ahHaHaHaHahAahahaHahaHAhahaAhaha...ahAHaHaHaHahaAHhaaHhaAHa.

that shit is not meant to actually do damage. its just a test. any who cant convert / absorb / null it intentionally or automatically are fair game for worse

any one who cant defend themselves is not even considered human but any who cant do worse than a hex are just amatures