Hare Krsna General

Topics overview

Basic Premises
We Souls
Krishna
Spiritual World
Material World
The Goal of Life
Bhakti: the means and the goal
Bhakti Worldview
What is the Hare Krishna Movement?

http://krishna.com/overview

I'm currently feeling hopeless and as if I have nothing to live for. How can worshipping Krishna help me?

>>18379125
Whats up with that? These days i have barely the motivation to go to the bathroom.

>>18379130
I'm in the same boat anon. Depression is a cruel bitch.

>>18379125
It is established in the vedic scriptures that this world is temporary and full of misery as the soul travels from body to body. The human form of life is specifically made for getting out of the cycle of suffering. By practicing bhakti yoga (loving devotion to God) one can reawaken the blissful, natural position of the soul and eventually return to our true home (the spiritual world).

>>18379188

Actually, the purpose is to die.Really die.
To break the cycle of reincarnation.
The whole point of karma is to get the fuck out of here.

>>18379196
This may be true from a buddhist or voidist perspective, but according to our gaudiya conception there is a real spiritual body which is covered by our identification with matter.

>>18379202
There are schools of thought which cite Buddha as an incarnation of Vishnu.
I tend to agree more with the Buddhist perspective. It's a harsh critique of human passions.
The only thing everyone agrees that the Buddha said is that we shouldn't suffer. The only way to really not suffer is to die.
Whatever happens afterwards no longer involves "us" as an identity.
Your perspective of a spiritual body is ok but it appears to maintain that the "I" continues to exist.

>>18379214
Buddha was in fact a Vishnu incarnation who deliberately misled as to curtail the practice of animal sacrifice. The ego definitely exists and continues to exist even after liberation (as described in Bhagavad Gita)

>>18379226

The Gita is full of contradictions. Krishna was the actual deceiver.

Read the Mahabharat and count the number of times he says and does things which from anyone else would have been considered the pinnacle of evil.

Few understand that Krishna deliberately and very cunningly worked towards the change of ages and welcomed the iron age.

His speech, which is the Gita, urges those who could have held on to an age for a while longer to fall into the darkness of present time. He ensures that the war happens.

Krishna presents this beautifully but his actual aim was not meant to be an example to be followed.

>>18379245
Krsna's position as the supreme enjoyer puts him on a platform situated beyond mundane good or evil (such as the notoriously misunderstood rasa dance). In the end it is is all just lila or transcendental play for his enjoyment and the enjoyment of his devotees.

Within the actual Gita however (contained within mahabharat) there are zero contradictions to speak of. I agree 100% that Krsna's pastimes and proclivities are not meant to be imitated (unlike incarnations such as Lord Ramachandra)

>>18379245
Kali Yuga is also incredibly exalted due to the appearance of Chaitanya Mahaprabu as well as the divinely potent Hare Krsna mahamantra. In this way attainment of prema is actually easier now than in previous yugas.

a few questions.

1. what is the ultimate goal of a mortal soul, and how does chanting hare krsna help?
2. when one begins to chant, what are the changes they will begin to see? what happens in the short term? the long term?
3. what separates chanting hare krsna and someone else chanting the name of the abrahamic god, or calling upon amida buddha?

>>18379252

The Gita is contradiction incarnate.

I'll give you an example of my point.
Karna was the one person who could have maintained the age, with the victory of the Kauravas.

What does Krishna tell Arjun? Kill him, even though he is unarmed. Kill him even though he cannot defend himself. Ignore the speech I just gave you, break all the rules of war and dharma, and just kill him.

The iron age must happen.
That was all Krishna wanted, and what he actually achieved.

Read the text again.
Krishna is an agent of chaos.
He is indeed beyond good and evil but when you consider his actions, many, many, many of them are not "good".

>>18379271

The wood must splinter the paw of the lion so that it may be tamed from its removal.

>>18379266

1. The ultimate purpose of a living being is to know himself and his relation to Godhead. Chanting Hare Krsna revitalizes this relationship and puts one in direct contact with Krsna (the sound vibration being non different from the personality of godhead).

2. Initially one will feel a sense of peace as well as less if any anxiety. One may also experience shadow symptoms of devotional ecstasy such as crying, hairs standing on end, etc. Material desires will also be curtailed if not removed completely. Chanting also builds sukrti (pious merit) which will lead the chanter to contact with a pure devotee of Krsna.

In the long term chanting can reveal your spiritual form as well as awaken pure love for god (the first ray of which is called bhava) which then blossoms into prema. The pleasure of these states far surpasses anything which could be experienced in this plane.

3. Chanting the names of God is always good but Krsna has invested all his energy into the mahamantra (it also calls upon Radha which is the pleasure potency of the lord).

>>18379271
There is mundane dharma and eternal dharma as explained by Bhaktivinod Thakur in Jaiva Dharma. The supreme dharma of the living being is to render service to Krsna exclusively for his pleasure, which is beyond the pious and impious activities delineated in the vedas. As I mentioned I totally agree with your last statement.

>>18379281

Just read, at least, that part of the story again.
Karna could not be defeated. Only Krishna's deceit allowed it.

And that is only one example. Krishna does it over, and over, and over again.

Call his reasons justified if you want, it simply proves that Krishna would have done even the worst to bring in the iron age.

He did do the worst, actually.
He urged the sun not to set when it was in his interest. He urged lies. He,well, just read again.

Krishna had no interest in saving mankind. His example, his words are not to be trusted. It's self-evident from who he is and I guess he assumed we would understand instead of blindly trusting an incarnation of Vishnu.

>>18379298

You have never read the Vedas and have no idea of what you're saying.
Please read and come back when you can justify the ritual for, say, winning at gambling.

You are stuck in "accepted interpretations". The books themselves say something very different.

>>18379287

Thank you for your answers. Can I bother you to try to explain why one should know his relation to the Godhead, and why that is the end result? I'm curious how it compares to previously mentioned philosophies where the end goal is liberation from samsara.

Also, just for my own curiosity: is chanting for Krsna the only method, or just the most potent one? Let's say I have a metaphysical hardon for Parvati, to speak loosely. Would it have the same or different effects to chant her, given the devi's different nature and ruling forces? Or none at all, because she has not allowed something like Krsna's chant?

>>18379299
>It's self-evident from who he is and I guess he assumed we would understand instead of blindly trusting an incarnation of Vishnu.

According to our siddhanta Krsna is the fountainhead of all incarnations including maha vishnu.

>>18379307
These are not my words, here are some examples from sastra.

Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the Vedas, which recommend various fruitive activities for elevation to heavenly planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth.

BG 2.42-43, Translation and Purport:

Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the Vedas, which recommend various fruitive activities for elevation to heavenly planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth. Being desirous of sense gratification and opulent life, they say that there is nothing more than this.

This explains rituals such as those involving gambling (which, by the way, is accepted for those in the kshatriya class).

Also mana siksha by Raghunath Das Goswami

O Mind, don’t concern yourself with the pious and impious deeds described in the Vedas. Rather, intently serve Sri Sri Radha-Krsna in Vraja. Always remember that Lord Caitanya is the son of Maharaja Nanda and that my guru is most dear to Lord Mukunda.

>>18379307

Not the Krsna-anon, but winning at gambling can be for both good and bad reasons. If you need money to help someone and you are able to attain it quickly enough in that way, surely it's a good act. If you need money for resources to rule people, surely it's an evil act. Preaching and lusting for non-materialism is divine, but divinity also lies in knowing when physical wealth is important to the (momentary, at least) spiritual care and well being of an entity.

>>18379321

You simply have not read the actual Vedas and, I can see now, not even the Gita.
You've read about them.

Go back, read.

Challenge the interpretations. See for yourself.
The books are clear enough, with patience.

>>18379314
Within the gaudiya conception there are different levels of spiritual realization. These are known as Bramhan realization (impersonal), Paramatma realization (the localized aspect of God) and Bhagavan realization (Krsna in his personal form). The end result of practicing Bhakti Yoga is seeing Krsna face to face and rendering loving service to him. However it may take lifetimes to achieve this goal (known as Krsna prema).

Chanting the names of demigods will have very different effects than chanting Hare Krsna. In the Gita it is stated that those who worship the demigods go to the planet of the demigods while those who worship Krsna go to the supreme abode. That said one can worship Lord Shiva for example if it means gaining the favor of Krsna it is still considered bhakti (I personally worship a shiva lingam for this very reason).

>>18379326

It was just an example, off the top of my head.
The Vedas are beyond good and evil. They are practical guides to life. No one reads them and just assume what commentators say is correct.
Everyone seems to ascribe them to supreme divinity and whatnot.

Take, for example, the Vedic Rudra.
He's an asshole. A powerful, magnificent, capricious asshole.
Really.
But he was a popular asshole who was re-made into Shiva to please everyone.
Just see for yourself.

>>18379334
I've read the Gita multiple times with commentary by Srila Prabhupada, Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja and Vishvanath Cakravarti Thakur. All of these acharyas disregard the karma kanda activities as described in the vedas.

Also worth noting that Vyasadeva complied the Srimad Bhagavatam as a natural commentary on Vedanta Sutra being so inspired by the sage Narada Muni.

>>18379343

what does "render loving service to him" mean

if it means what i think then i hope he has a female aspect

>>18379355

Please, please, think for yourself.
Try reading again with the perspective that Karna is the actual hero of the Mahabharat.

None of the commentators say this.
Everyone has one story.
Read from your own different perspective and you'll see something else entirely.

The accepted "heroes" ended up in hell.
That should be a good enough indication to get you going.

>>18379361
Can't delve too deeply into this as it is very esoteric, though I will say to research the five relationships that one can have with Krsna while situated in Goloka Vrindavana (the highest being madhurya rasa or conjugal love)

>>18379365
From a bhakti yoga perspective, reading mahabharata may be interesting but it is far less important than Krsna's youthful pastimes in Vrindavana as described in scriptures such as Bhagavata Purana. This is exactly why Srila Prabhupada didn't even bother translating them.

Are you familiar with the story of Vyasadeva and Narada Muni? The former compiled the great epics as well as divided the vedas but was still not satisfied. Narada Muni explained his dissatisfaction as being a result of not emphasizing service to the supreme personality of Godhead. He then was inspired to compile the srimad bhagavatam as referenced prior.

>>18379350
Shiva cut off his head because he was an asshole- they're two different entities.

>>18379378

Seriously?
Vishnu is Narayan.
Krishna is nothing. He was a man. He was a man who made it clear that Vishnu did not want Krishna's example to be followed.
Your supreme personality of godhead crap comes from years of unquestioning indoctrination.
Read again, with your own views and ASK QUESTIONS.

>>18379392
I guess the Bhagavad Gita is wrong then.

avajananti mam mudha
manusim tanum asritam
param bhavam ajananto
mama bhuta-mahesvaram

Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be.

>>18379367

Just looked it up. Basically implied to me that you get spiritually gay for Krsna and might incarnate as his wife or worshiper. Passing on that if he can't even send Radha.

>>18379389

They're versions of the same being, with Shiva- in his current form- being the re-packaged version, for the masses.

The Shiva who is worshiped now is Rudra-light.

Shaivism predates the Vedas.

The original Shiva was more Rudra than actual Shiva.

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>>18379395

>foos deride me when I descend in the human form. they do not know my transcendental nature and my supreme dominion over all that be

Dennis?

I like the words and the literary style of the Bhagavad Gita and the Srimad Bhagavatam. Very uplifting.

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>>18379361
The closest material comparison to bhakti is a mother's love for her child. Rendering loving service means to act purely for the benefit of the person being served with no expectation of reward or reciprocation.

If you serve Krishna to get to heaven, or to achieve liberation, or because you want to increase your own enjoyment a la >>18379400, this is not bhakti.

BUT

It is a start, and Krishna's ability to purify is infinite. These things can lead to bhakti. So no matter your desire, it is recommended you approach Krishna to fulfill it.

> SB 2.3.10 — A person who has broader intelligence, whether he be full of all material desire, without any material desire, or desiring liberation, must by all means worship the supreme whole, the Personality of Godhead.

>>18378771
shoot yourself iskcon fags

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>>18378771
what does "om paramat maney nama" mean?

>>18384746
The first and last are, in a sense, formalities. Many mantras - especially those to a specific person/deity - start with om, and end with namah

om - an honorific address to the Supreme

namah - obeisance to you

"Paramat Maney" is difficult as there are several ways to create these sounds in sanskrit. "Param" usually means "topmost" or "ultimate." This could be paramatmana - supreme soul, or paramat muni - supreme sage, or paramat manah - supreme mind

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>mfw ISKON cultists try to pass their interpretation of the Vedas as non controversial

>>18383646
i second this sentiment

>>18385356
What in particular do you find controversial?

>>18385356
>don't listen to the vedas, our shit is way more legit
>if you're gonna listen to the vedas, make sure to take them with a grain of salt because they're not as legit as our shit
>our translations are the best, don't read anybody else's

>i said take off your pants, bitch, im about to give you an important spiritual dicking whether you like it or not
>multiple rape allegations
>"our dear leader is slandered by the opponents of the truest religion ever"

>worshipping krishna instead of shiva
>any year
>i shiggy diggy

>>18385390
A sadhaka is certainly welcome to read the Vedas. From our perspective however the Srimad Bhagavatam (written by the same individual who divided the vedas) is the sum and essence of all the vedic literature.

Criticism of Srila Prabhupada's translation is due to the fact that sanskrit has many levels of meaning. The mayavadi interpretations by persons such as Yogananda are extremely biased toward impersonal spirituality.

Sexual abuse most definitely did occur within the early days of ISKCON but srila prabhupada had no part in the abuse. In fact such abuse was deliberately concealed from him.

Shiva is incredibly exalted and many gaudiya vaishnavas worship him in his gopi form as gopeshwar mahadeva as well as the greatest devotee of Lord Krsna.

Thoughts on this?

http://www.chaosophie.net/?p=677

>You have been lied to, and you are lying to yourself. He wasn’t wrong. Most modern spiritual leaders are frauds – and with increased media and internet, we’re aware of their many, many failings. So if you worship your guru, and your guru is a fraud, this book will offend you. But sometimes offence is good. We are too sanitized, too protected, too afraid to ruffle feathers. Sankarsana used to say: see Krsna, what a little rascal! What does he do? He steals food. He kills his uncle Kamsa. He fucks pretty girls. He even fucks the pretty married girls – eh, Radha? Is Krsna worried about offending you? No, so I won’t be afraid to offend you either! Krsna is a fiend. And we need to be fiends, just like him.

>Krsna is really a sociopathic monster, but he loves you. And he will do things to you – horrible things – because he loves you. Krsna is the abusive and jealous boyfriend or girlfriend that you can’t escape. He has your email passwords and your phone contacts and he is watching your every move. You can never get free of Krsna, but you can learn to love Him. When He is hurting you, and beating you until you bleed and are screaming for Him to stop, that is when you need to love Him the most.

>>18387402
There was an excerpt from (I think) Jaiva Dharma where Bhaktivinode Thakur described being in the loving embrace of Krishna. It read similar to the recall of a rape victim, and abhorred by mind. To the soul entranced by Maya; to anyone with even the smidge of desire to be the controller - the spiritual realm is an anathema.

I absolutely agree, aside for one point.

>And we need to be fiends, just like him.
I disagree because we are NOT him. Krishna is the Supreme and Sole Enjoyer. We are the enjoyed. Krishna does whatever He wants and breaks every rule He sets because He is the Supreme Controller and Infinitely independent. We are the controlled, and the only independence we really have is whether or not to delude ourselves into thinking serving Maya - serving the senses - is service to the Self.

Of course, since Maya is merely the external energy of Krishna, service to Maya is service to Krishna indirectly - because ultimately there is only service to Krishna.

I'm a pleb. What's up with shiva? I saw him(?) in my dream once. I dont know why i like shiva, but i felt like this is a good opportunity to ask.

>>18387677
Read the Shiva Purana and attain salvation. Read the Vishnu Purana and attain nothing. All praise be unto Shiva, for he is the greatest.

>>18388568
You are totally deluded. Even mayavadis believe there is some benefit to worshiping Lord Vishnu (such as shankaracharya)

>>18388673
it's actually called shitposting

>>18385387
>Bhagavan = supreme personality of godhead
>lokas = planets

ISKON """"translations"""" have got to be the most cringeworthy """"translations"""" of all time desu.

>>18388673
>"even mayavadis"
>wanting to unite with god is bad, you should only want to serve god
>im an iskcon slave that believes an inferior goal is actually superior
cant make this shit up, folks. all of legitimate hinduism and yoga is about uniting with god as the ultimate goal, so how is it that iskconites are different? oh it's because you're not hindus, you're just a slave cult that appropriated certain aspects from hinduism. it's no wonder that nobody but your kind can associate with this shit. pretty much all denominations of hinduism can coexist and be together in one big happy family. and then there's the edgy iskconites that are like the black sheep of the family. you're not even part of the family.

ISKCON holocaust when?

>>18389041
ISKON is the Hindu equivalent of evangelical protestantism.

>>18388840
Bhagavan means possessor of all opulence which can only indicate the personality of godhead who is complete in six potencies. Loka as a planet or realm is standard sanskrit definition.

>>18389040
The concept of personal service to God far predates ISKCON and is a central concept in the gaudiya vaishnava tradition. The Bhagavad Gita specifically indicates this in the following sloka

Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, offer obeisances and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me.

The majority of Hinduism is not based in sastra and is a hodge podge of mayavadi sentiments.

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Hare Krsna to all my friends and devotees here. Please accept my humble obesiances. All glories to Jai Sri Krsna.

https://krsnaparty.wordpress.com/2016/11/30/vaisnavist-liberation-front-issue-1/

For the martial caste among us.

Jihad for Krsna!!

>>18389040
I want to put a bullet in the head of all mayavadis you insult Krishna you insult me. Watch yourself. Watch that tongue.

>>18378771
Krishna isn't paranormal, friend. But it is worth discussing.

>>18389118
You don't know whar TRANSLATION means.

It doens't mean [insert your favorite sectarian interpretation here, doesn't matter what the actual words say lol!].

>>18389143
Possessor of all opulence and the supreme personality of godhead is basically interchangeable as I explained prior.

>>18389143
Preaching here is useless. Look at 4chan is full of sex, miserable atheists, ignorant people, etc. If you want to teach mindless hedonism and self indulgence then yes it's perfect or godlessness.

There's boards here for faggots degenerates etc.

It's not worth attempting to save.

Let them all go to hell. Maybe Krsna will take mercy and lop off their heads at the end of the Yuga.

>>18389151
Again you don't know what translation means.

>>18389157
What's your definition of translation and I ask you good sir how would you translate the above since you are obviously a great scholar of sanskrit and the Vedas.

>>18389157
GO tip your fedora some more too as you are a slave to the witch Maya. Can't wait until your death let's see who laughs the hardest then.

>>18389157
Did some looking within the Bhagavad Gita as translated by Srila Narayana Maharaja. In reference to Bhagavan uvacha he simply says "Sri Bhagavan said". Do you think that is more intellectually honest?

>>18389171
He won't accept Krsna. Why won't you realize as Srila Prabhupada said preaching to these absolute scum is like feeding a snake milk it just makes them more venomous. So that poisons the ocean of nectar that is devotional service.

You may be brahmacari but I am kshatriya and these absolute lower than sudra types are beyond saving.

Please understand my absolute anger at hearing the supreme Lord blaspheme by such lowly individuals.

Hopefully you have more mercy for them but continuously insulting the devotees and Krsna I can't relax when that occurs.

If they were in my reach I would beat them.

>>18389041
Just try it, you'd have to kill me. And I'll make sure I take you asuras with me.

>>18389158
>>18389163
Ok, for starters, bhagavan doesn't mean "possessor of all opulence" (lol!).

>Bhagavān literally means "fortunate, blessed" (from the noun bhaga, meaning "fortune, wealth", cognate to Slavic bog "god", Polish bogaty Serbo-Croatian bogat, Russian бoгaтый (bogatyj) "wealthy"), and hence "illustrious, divine, venerable, holy", etc.[12]

>Sanskrit bhaga (IAST: bhaga) is a term for "lord, patron", but also for "wealth, prosperity". The cognate term in Avestan and Old Persian is baga, of uncertain meaning but used in a sense in which "lord, patron, sharer/distributor of good fortune" might also apply. The cognate in Slavic languages is the root bogъ. The semantics is similar to English lord (from hlaford "bread-warden"), the idea being that it is part of the function of a chieftain or leader to distribute riches or spoils among his followers. The name of the city of Baghdad derives from Middle Persian baga-data, "lord-given".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavan#Etymology_and_meaning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhaga

Now between "rich, blessed" and "possessor of all opulence", there is some, however faint, resemblance. Not an exact translation but sure, opulence, richness... I can see it.

But how in the world do you go from blessed to supreme personality of godhead? We know how, don't we? First of all, personality is a sectarian buzzword directed against the mayavadin that say that the supreme brahman is impersonal. And godhead, I'd guess, against those who say that the supreme brahman is above isvara and therefore can't be a deity? Supreme comes as bonus, I guess.

What does any of that have to do with the actual word bhagavan? Well, nothing. This is downright dishonest.

If you're going to have an outlandishly biased, sectarian reading of scripture, please do so in a footnote, not making stuff up.

PS: the Buddha is also called bhagavan. Should we call him the supreme personality of godhead? Are Buddhists also ISKONites?

No.

>>18389171
Definitely yes. See >>18389183

>>18389183
Nothing like your Wikipedia sources eh big shooter? it's almost as good as scholarly researching the Vedas and knowing sanskrit like Srila Prabhupada

>>18389179
>>18389182
You sound like an evangelical christian zelot.

>>18389188
Yeah those evil scholars must be in league with Satan, I mean the Asuras!

ya'll faglords should get into nietzche, he will teach you why you should suffer, not how to avoid suffering.

>>18389183
https://www.vedabase.com/en/synonyms-index?original_op=contains&original=bhagavan&translation_op=contains&translation=

>>18389193
>>18389183
Are you retarded or slow bro?

Bhagavān, (Sanskrit: भगवान्, Bhagavān) is an epithet for God, particularly for Krishna and other avatars of Vishnu in Vaishnavism, as well as for Shiva in the Shaivism tradition of Hinduism.[1][2] In north India, Bhagavān also represents the concept of abstract God to Hindus who are religious but do not worship a specific deity.[1]

>>18389188
Problem is "bogatyj" still mean illustrious, rich, in a number of slavic languages to this day, don't need any fancy scholar to know that. Nothing related to supreme, or personality, or godhead.

>>18389195
He cites his sect's website to confirm their sectarian translation! You can't make this shit up!

>>18389209
>are you slow
Oh the irony!

Sweet, sweet, irony!

>>18389190
>>18389193

Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be.

>>18389211
So what? Krsna possesses all wealth all knowledge all opulence so wealthy or powerful etc can be used to describe him. Learn to read.

Question for ISKONite fanatic cultists:

Is Lord Buddha the

>supreme
>personality
>of
>godhead?

And I don't mean an avatar of Vishnu, but the actual supreme personality himself?

>>18389217
>>18389214
It's hilarious!

I think you really, actually, as a matter of fact can't grasp the concept of TRANSLATION!

TRANSLATION =/= INTERPRETATION.

Get a fucking clue!

>>18389211
You didn't address my direct quotation of the meaning of Bhagavan in sanskrit instead you are addressing a Slavic word.

So how does this disprove Krsna or the sanskrit translations of the Bhagavad Gita As all false?

>>18389224
>>18389209
Address this.

I'm not arguing about Slavic translations etc.

How is Bhagavan not a name of Krsna?

>>18389229
Additionally

The Meaning of Bhagavan
Bhagavan is the one who has bhaga, the six-fold virtues in absolute measure.
भगः अस्य अस्ति इति भगवान्
bhagaḥ asya asti iti bhagavān
The one who has bhaga is called bhagavan. It is said in the Vishnu Purana (6.5.74)

ऐश्वर्यस्य समग्रस्य वीर्यस्य यशसः श्रियः।
ज्ञान-वैराग्ययोश्चैव षण्णां भग इतीरणा॥
aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ |
jñāna-vairāgyayoścaiva ṣaṇṇāṁ bhaga itīraṇā ||
Total and absolute overlordship, power, wealth, dispassion, fame and knowledge are known as bhaga.
These are: all knowledge, jnana; total dispassion, vairagya; the capacity to create, sustain, and resolve, virya; absolute fame, yasas; all wealth, sri; and overlordship, aisvarya.

>>18389237
>>18389229

Bhagwan is a Hindu term that refers to “god” or “lord,” particularly Krishna and other Vishnu incarnations, as well as Shiva. It is also a title of honor bestowed upon a guru or some other revered individual. In northern India, the term may represent the abstract concept of god to those Hindus who do not worship a specific deity. In some sects, it is an honorific for a spiritual leader that the sect considers enlightened.

Bhagwan comes from the Sanskrit bhaga, meaning “fortune” or “wealth.” It translates as “fortunate” and “blessed.” The term is also spelled bhagavan, bhagvan and bhagawan.

>>18389225
Because Slavic languages, Sanskrit and Avestan come from the same Indo-European root and Sanskrit bhagavan derived from Sankrit bhaga

>Sanskrit bhaga (IAST: bhaga) is a term for "lord, patron", but also for "wealth, prosperity".

And is cognate with the same word in Avestan and Old Persian, meaning lord, patron, wealthy man, and Slavic bogatyj meaning wealthy.

Sure, it's an epithet of Krishna (and also of Buddha), nobody is saying it isn't. BUT SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD IS NOT THE TRANSLATION OF SAID EPITHET.

If you can't grasp this simple concept, then you're hopeless.

>>18389242
>>18389237
>>18389229

And one last definition

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/bhagwan

Satisfied yet or are you simply too stubborn to listen?

You are wrong accept it.

TRANSLATION OF BHAGAVAN = BLESSED, WEALTHY.

SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD = BULLSHIT """TRANSLATION""" OF BHAGAVAN.

Deal with it.

>>18389246
Where did I say Bhagavan meant that and how does that disprove Krsna as the supreme personality of God head? Insofar as I've read Krsna is called the Supreme Bhagavan. Krsna is Bhagavan which means God. He is called the Supreme Personality of God head because at least in Vaisnavism or ISKCON he is the source of all avatars of Visnu and indeed the source of all emanations.

I honestly don't have anything else to say.

4chan were souls drown in Maya and relish in demonic activities is not the place to preach anymore than holding a Kirtan at a brothel is a good idea.

>>18389257
This may help you understand why Krsna is called the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Calling Krsna bhagavan is just another name for God. As Krsna is God. You could call Krsna Allah if you wanted doesn't matter.

God is infinite so he has infinite names and appearances etc. Unlimited.

>>18389257
No, you thick-skulled one! It doesn't "disprove" that Krsna is the supreme personality of godhead. It doesn't prove or disprove that Krsna is the supreme personality of godhead because the word has nothing to do with that.

If you believe that Krsna is the supreme personality of godhead, then fine.

However the word Bhagavan DOES NOT MEAN supreme personality of godhead. Get this into your thick skull.

>>18389264
Forgot link

https://www.quora.com/Shrimad-Bhagavad-Gita-Why-is-Krishna-called-the-Supreme-Personality-of-Godhead-when-he-is-just-an-incarnation-of-Lord-Vishnu

But you don't believe in Krsna or care so why does it matter honestly you don't want knowledge of Krsna. You just want to try and convert us to be atheists or Buddhists.

But that is not our way.

>>18389266
My first paragraph said "no Bhagavan does not mean Supreme Personality of Godhead". Now whose thick skulled asshole?

>>18389264
I can agree with that as long as you recognize that the word bhagavan doesn't mean personality of godhead, supreme or not.

I'm actually only talking about the word here. This is frankly childish.

>>18389266
Now go suck on a big fat cock faggot. Kek. Krsna has mercy but I don't. And I'd slap the fucking taste right out your mind in person.

Haha fucking clown.

I'm going to chant for Krsna to kill you tonight.

>>18389272
Does mean God and Krsna is God.

Cocksucker

>>18389270
You can believe whatever you want as long as you don't hold that "supreme personality of godhead" is a translation of the word "bhagavan".

>>18389276
I don't and never did you aspie fucker.

Go back to your tard handler.

>>18389273
Hahaha!

Please do chant this night and the night after!

Remember, that if I'm here tomorrow your god is cuck.

>>18389276
Slavs are subhuman scum as well. Hitler should have gassed more of them.

Fucking sissy. Suck my mother fucking dick.

Death chants! ISKONites revealing their true colors ITT!

I'm loving it!

>>18389279
Death takes everyone it's just a matter of time. Krsna isn't under an obligation to obey the orders of a simple human being.

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>>18389281
>Suck my mother dick.
Your mother is a tranny lol!

>>18389282
You truly are a pathetic weak fool I'm leaving the thread now I got work in the morning and you are probably unemployed

>>18389283
>y-you will die... some day...
Nice moving the goal post faggot!

>>18389284
>Suck my mother fucking dick.

is what I said no surprise you can't read.

Your mom's your dad cause you have two fags fucking you up in the ass every night that's why you're so angry at God you hoped he'd rescue you from total anal destruction.

>>18389287
Nah, I'm employed. I just don't work on Saturdays. Sorry that you are employed in slave labor!

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>>18389291
How did your mom gave birth to you, through the anus?

Bhagavan =/= supreme personality of godhead.

Your guru is a fraud, sorry ;^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCM4JlXFYWk

>>18389295
See
>>18389118

>>18389295
You are completely ignoring the actual sanskrit definition. It has nothing to do with the bullshit wiki article

From Sridhara Swami of the Rudra Vaishnava Sampradaya in the 14th century.Commentary on the Gita verse 9.11

>It may be wondered that since the Supreme Lord Krishna is the topmost attainment and paramount controller of all why are not all people worshipping Him as the Supreme Lord? This question is being answered in this verse and the next beginning with the descriptive word mudhah meaning the fools and the ignorant. Although the Supreme Lord's body is purely spiritual composed of sat eternal existence cit transcendental knowledge and ananda unending bliss the ignorant not knowing His supreme position disregard Him and the fools deride Him because Lord Krishna appears in a human looking form to interact and reciprocate with His devotees in order to please them.

From Ramanuja Acarya - founder of the Sri Vaishnava Sampradaya - circa 11th century, from his commentary Bhagavad-Gita Bhasya on the same verse:

>Due to the accumulation of unlimited sins by ignoring the ordinances of the Vedic scriptures, ignorant fools mistake the Supreme Lord Krishna to be perishable like any other member of humanity. Such fools are totally incognisant to the reality that Lord Krishna is the Supreme omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent Lord of all creation and that He manifests His original form that appears to be like all of humanity due to magnanimous feelings of infinite compassion in order for all living entities to be able to have access to Him. Oblivious to Lord Krishna's eternal, transcendental, immutable and supreme nature disguised in human form as a way to display His phenomenal lilas or divine pastimes by which to inspire and delight all of humanity as an act of unlimited mercy and love for all. Yet although all over the Earth the name of Lord Krishna and His avatars or expansions and incarnations has been heard of by all, still the ignorant and irrational even after hearing of Him foolishly disregard and disrespect Him as if He were just an ordinary mortal being.

From Kesava Kasmiri - of the Kumara Vaishnava Sampradaya - circa 15th century - on the same verse:

> Lord Krishna is the supreme omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent controller of all. Although the source of all creation He is unattached to His creation while still being compassionate to all living entities. Why then does not everyone take the mercy of the Supreme Lord and attain moksa or liberation from the material existence. The words avajananti mam mudah means ignorant fools blaspheme the Supreme Lord. This is because due to accumulations of sins since time immemorial they become infatuated by their material designations and possessions and so deluded are unable to recognise the paramount position of the Supreme Lord Krishna or even achieve the association of His devotees. Such fools think the Supreme Lord is an ordinary human being because He appears to be human although factually He possesses an eternal transcendental, spiritual form which only appears human. These ignorant wretches deride and disrespect the Supreme Lord and refuse to accept Him as the Lord of the entire creation; at times even substituting their own inferior gods as the Supreme Lord without having the authoritative evidence to support such fallacious misrepresentations. Such deluded fools falsely think of Lord Krishna as they do any other person and thus are beguiled and bewildered by maya or illusory perceptions superimposed upon the mind.

>The Supreme Lord Krishna is the original cause and source of everything in existence. He is the ultimate bestower of all rewards for all actions and the final beatitude for those who have attained moksa. All living entities and everything in creation emanate from Him first. The purpose of His divine appearances is exclusively for the benefit of mankind by protecting the righteous and annihilating the unrighteous.

And for our own humble Brahma Sampradaya - Madhvacarya on the same verse, circa 13th century:

>Now Lord Krishna explains those who do not know about His Supreme position and why. For those who are deluded their human body appears to be what they are and not simply a container for the jiva or the embodied soul. Therefore in the Moksa Dharma it is stated: In this world all the things associated with the body are endowed with the five gross elements of earth, water, fire, air and ether as ordained by the will of the Supreme Lord who is the sole source of all creation. The Supreme Lord Krishna is also paramatma or the Supreme Soul residing within all living entities as the eternal witness of everything. He exists with form and He exists without form. He is the giver of blessings and boons and He is the master of the unmanifest power which regulates destruction and creation.

>Regarding the Vedic scriptures documenting the descent of Lord Krishna's avatars or incarnations in numerous and diverse manifestations. It should be understood without any doubt that there is absolutely no difference in essence of any of the Supreme Lord's forms in past, present or future. All Lord Krishna's avatars are sac-cid-ananda or sat of eternal existence, cit or transcendental knowledge and ananda or unending bliss and are the sovereign master of all creation. Whether these avatars are appearing as a fish such as Lord Matsya, or animal such as Lord Varaha the boar incarnation or half -human like Lord Narasimha the half man and half lion incarnation or as human incarnations such as Lord Rama and Lord Buddha; they are all different manifestations of the supreme absolute truth and the ultimate reality of the Supreme Lord. Therefore there should never be any misconception or delusion that there is any difference between the Supreme Lord Krishna and any of His avatars which are always verified by the authority of the Vedic scriptures.
(cont.)

>>18389606
>Without beginning and without end of purely spiritual form the Supreme Lord is the source of Brahma and Shiva and all created beings. From His breath has manifested the four Vedas. The brahman or spiritual substratum pervading all existence is His impersonal manifestation. He is Isvara Parama the Supreme controller of all creation. The word bhuta-mahesvaram in this verse means the Supreme Lord of all beings and this has also been stated in the Babhravya section of the Sama Veda.

To say that the concept of Lord Krishna as the Supreme Source is some mistranslation or aberration existing solely within ISKCON is blatantly and demonstrably untrue.

>>18389573
>>18389582
>>18389594
>>18389606
>>18389608
Why waste your time on these demons prahbu?

They insult the vedas, the spiritual master, and the Supreme Lord.

In a fair society they would be justifiably executed. These individuals are like Ravana. Sending society to hell.

>>18390103
9) To instruct a faithless person about the glories of the holy name.

http://www.harekrishnatemple.com/offenses.html

I only censure you here out of desire to help.

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>>18389295

While this nice gentleman has a lot of patience for your person. Krsna won't take kindly to what you are doing.

Krsna allows atheists to disbelief in him and by his maya-yoga potency allows himself to appear as non-existent to your self. But at the end of your miserable and envious life you will have to pay for what you have done.

>>18390103
Because these demons give me an impetus to research and read sastra and the works of the acaryas. And I need all the help I can get.

And while I don't think to put myself or this situation on such a level, surely you can't be against arguing our position on the Vedas. From Bhaktisiddhanta all the way to Prahlada Maharaja there is precedent to bodly confront those that would dismiss or denigrate bhakti yoga.

Hey, I'm still alive faggots.

You people are literally worse than evangelical fundamentalists. You can't even understand my point, let alone respond to it. Your rebuttals consist of strawmanning, insults and death threats. Hinduism is fo fucking tolerant! Hahahaha!

I'll leave you alone in your echo chamber now. You people need to be protected and isolated from reality.

Oh and just so you know Vishnu didn't come during the night in the form of a boar to gore me, and if he does I'm gonna roast him for dinner. Sorry to frustate your weird revenge fantasies ;^)

>>18391081
If you are referring to the translation of the word bhagavan I explained it numerous times in this thread.

Perhaps an explanation from a non-dualist philosophical tradition:

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/concepts/bhagavan.asp

>It is customary nowadays to address some babas, yogis and spiritual gurus as Bhagavan, making it sound like an exalted and distinguishing title. In a general sense, Bhagavan means God. In Hindu tradition, people address saintly persons and spiritual masters as Bhagavan, as a mark of honor and out of profound respect.

>It may be wrong or blasphemy in western religions to address someone as God, but it is perfectly normal in Hindu tradition. Treating a guru or even one's own father as God is a very ancient Hindu tradition. It is permitted by the Vedas. In most of the Upanishads we notice that it was customary for a student to address his teacher or seer who had the knowledge of Brahman as Bhagavan only.

>A disciple has every right to call his guru God or Bhagavan and treat him so. Others do not have to do that. Therefore, if the follower of a spiritual teacher addresses him as Bhagavan, it is not wrong.

>Bhagavan is the right word to denote God or anyone who possesses divine qualities or who has realized the inner Self. To consider God and you as one is knowledge. To look upon both as different and separate is duality and ignorance.

>The word Bhagavan truly represents the essential nature of God or Brahman as the sole inhabitant and pervader of the manifested creation. For it is what Bhagavan actually means.

>Bhagavan (bhaga + van) means occupant or lord of bhaga. One of the meanings of bhaga is female sexual organ. From this perspective, Bhagavan represents the union between Purusha and Prakriti as symbolized in case of a Sivalingam.
(cont.)

>However, bhaga has any or all the following meanings: one of the twelve forms of Aditya or Sun god, the moon god, a form of Siva, the divine enjoyer within, wealth, affluence, prosperity and fortune, happiness, dignity, distinction, love and affection, pleasure, pure bliss, marital bliss, female genital organ, virtue, morality, religious merit and so on."Van" means resident, owner or occupant.

>Bhagavan therefore means He who resides or abides in Nature or in the things and qualities mentioned above. In simple terms Bhagavan is God united with His creation. In symbolic terms Bhagavan is represented by many objects and forms, famous being "salagrama" and "sivalingam".

>According to traditional interpretation, Bhagavan is the possessor of six primary abundances or qualities: strength, fame, wealth, knowledge, beauty, and detachment.
>These qualities manifest in the vibhutis or glories of God as enumerated in the tenth chapter of the Bhagavadgita as God's opulence and mystic powers. God represents the best in creation, while He pervades all. For those who want to attain liberation, these qualities represent the ideals, which they should pursue to cultivate purity and express divinity.
>God is omnipresent. It is therefore incorrect to say that He resides only in particular things or qualities. If He is truly omnipresent, He must be everywhere and in everything. He cannot be just this side or that side but on all sides and everywhere. But human mind cannot conceptualize an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God in absolute terms without some reference to terms and objects we are familiar with. We have therefore this word Bhagavan, which describes briefly the relative and positive attributes of God for our understanding, appreciation, contemplation and emulation.

>>18379361
I doubt it means fapping it to tranny porn in the name of Krishna

Is there a branch of Hinduism that's not so culturally dependant?

>>18391366
Bhakti Yoga can be practiced by anyone whether wearing a suit or a dhoti.

>>18379125
You could also try reading a book. Or writing a book. Or picking up a hobby. Or working out. Or taking a vacation. Or looking for romance. Or getting a better job. Or going back to school. Or seeing a therapist.

I get I'm on /x/, but let's not forget that there are tangible, productive ways of finding happiness.

>these triggered krishnites
>still complaining about mayavadis
If the gurus of olden times saw how retarded iskconites are, they'd be filled with incredible disappointment. They're all spinning in their graves.

>>18394013
Odd sentiment considering it is the mayavadis and saivites that repeatedly try to derail the vaishnava thread, yet you will hardly ever see a vaishnava in their threads.

Really, you should be thanking ISKCON for something to latch onto and criticize. It doesn't seem like there is any capability here to challenge the gaudiya vaishnava philosophy.