Luciferianism

>>18360313
God, Adam, Jesus and Lucifer working in unison to end all suffering. I like this idea a lot.

Lucifer was a catalyst for the human experience, so that eventually we may turn to God out of free-will. He is simply another angel that works with the Creator.

God = Ace of hearts
Adam = Ace of clovers
Jesus = Ace of diamonds
Lucifer = Ace of spades

>>18360343
Mankind =KEK =Joker
Did i correctly explain meme magic?

>>18360355
Bump because i want to know if this is how magic works. If true i am completely open to learning magic. If false i still would like to learn.

>>18360313
His name isnt Lucifer, that is the name Roman eggheads gave to him. Fuck the Romans.

His name is Satan, and you have been decieved

>>18360450
So is satan/lucy a good guy?

>>18360464
No. He was always a liar and always our adversary, nothing has changed.

>>18360497
He gave us free will, though. Without free will, being one with the Creator is almost nothing. Free will is what makes our love to the Creator so much stronger.

This is biblical Lucifer/Satan, associated with the Apple/Snake. The modern Christian version of Satan was only created to induce fear and control the masses, which was never God's intention.

>>18360523
God gave us free will, Satan is the one who testifies before us against our fellow man. "Abel gave better sacrifice than you, you must kill him to save yourself".

Luckily God gave us the will and grace to ignore him.

>>18360523
The biblical serpent in the garden is a liar.
His promise was immortality and godhood, neither of those have ever been achieved by any man. You're in denial if you believe otherwise.

>>18360313

Satan is a worm that will be crushed under the foot of our Lord Jesus Christ. Read Revelation and watch the end unfold.

I always thought that Satan could have been the good guy and God brain washed people. We never heard about lucifer much and if Jesus or God was so good why did people hate him. Why was he executed. I realise it was bc he was spreading religion or whatever but it sorta doesn't add up to me... :/

>>18360546
Man's existence in the Garden of Eden was akin to a robotic slave.

God gave us free will because Love towards Him is infinitely stronger with free will than without.

Do you seriously think that the Creator would create something purely evil? All of God's creations are filled with love only, and God created *everything*. The real evil is not "satan" or anything else. Evil is simply distance from the Creator.

>>18360553
Satan's entire goal is to lead us away from God. So by your own reasoning he at least isn't very nice.
Also, man's existence in the garden I would say is more akin to a child being allowed to play in his Daddy's garden. Do i seriously think God would create something purely evil? No. I believe God created an angel who got too big of an ego, and now that angel holds a prettt big chip on his shoulder. Satan is our enemy and you're a fool for holding him so dear to your heart.

>>18360559
The only thing leading us away from God is our own free will. Everything else He created is under His love. All of His angels have nothing but endless love towards Him.

Our enemy is being away from God. If you want to personify being away from God and give it a name, go ahead. But in reality, there is nothing but free will here.

I do not hold a concept dear in my heart. I am simply explaining that Lucifer is nothing but another servant to God. If you hold God dear in your heart, there is nothing but your own free will that can ever take you away from Him.

>>18360567
A counterfeit, a good one at least, attempts to mimic the real thing in every way. Fake diamonds are made to look real. While you may seem to be preaching some sort of truth, you have been decieved by counterfiet theologies. May I ask, have you ever read the Bible? If so, you need to read it again.

>>18360450
His name is Helel, you idiot

>>18360577
What is the point of personifying evil, anyway? You claim Satan wants to bring you away from God. What is even the point of personifying that concept? You claim Satan merely wants to get you away from God. Why are you so adamant in externalizing the desire to get away from God?

The truth is, you and only you are "responsible" for going to God. No one is forcing you either way. You have free will and you alone must decide if you want to be one with God or not. There isn't any external entity working against God. It's only you. There is no heavenly war going on with God in a constant fight against Satan. God is all-powerful, all-knowing, omniscient. The one thing He does not have power over is our own free will, and that is due to His endless love for us.

If you want to personify the part of your free-will that wants to get away from God, go for it. The truth is, nothing is taking you away except for yourself.

(I'm not claiming that you specifically are not one with God. I'm only saying that the only thing "pushing" people away from God is each person's free-will)

>>18360550
Jesus never actually spread a religion, Jesus never existed

>>18360593
The pasage you are refering to uses the word Helel as a sacrastic moniker for the king Nebuchadnezzer, a babylonian king. Idiot. His name is Satan.

>>18360596
And what I'm saying is that you need to read the Bible.

>>18360597
Nearly all scholars agree that Jesus Christ was a real human baptised by a man named John and crucifed under the order of Pontius Pilate. Do your research.

>>18360607
Why? So I can read a random passage meant as a metaphor for exactly what I explained?

It's plain logic. Why would God let anything exist that is blatantly against him? (that is not a human with free will)

>>18360610
I have done my research and the methods to draw history out of the Gospels is fallacious. We'll see what scholars are saying in 10 years

>>18360611
What makes you think you could understand the will of God?
The Bible is very clear on what is to be taken literally and what is to be taken figuratively. The evil one Jesus warned us about is not a concept, not an idea, not a personification but a person. An entity. And he loves it when people make make claims that he does not exist.

>>18360620
>loves it when people make make claims that he does not exist
How the fuck do you know this?

>>18360616
And what about the numerous extrabiblical accounts of Jesus? Not all of those scholars are christian, you know. They just know that the man was real.

my clinical opinion is that you are all faggots.

>>18360624
I'll admit, that's an inference. But I believe it's a pretty obvious one. If you don't believe he exists, you'll never be able to tell if he's around.

>>18360625
There are no extrabiblical accounts that aren't brought into question

I don't care that they're not all Christian, they still have to sign a statement of faith

>>18360628
There are more than enough for me to believe.

>>18360634
If you think they're reliable, then that's on you, you haven't actually read the books in which the extrabiblical accounts are in

>>18360620
I cannot convince you because I dont follow the Bible as you do. Both of us are correct.

At any rate, if you love God and only God, what does it matter? No concept, being, entity, or person could ever affect you if you have God and love in your heart.

>>18360641
What if your idea of who God is is false? Then you have a false God in your heart.
God knows who His children are. If God is in your heart, He will find you. And if He does, He will tell you that His name is Jesus.

>>18360646
Everyone is God's children. No exceptions.

>>18360639
Not the entire books, no. But the individual accounts, yes. They're on the internet as well as everything else.

>>18360646
Well that's the thing. My concept of god is very different from the biblical god.

If you really want to know what I believe in, look up the Law of One. Granted, there's a 99.9% chance you will immediately dismiss it as some low-/x/ tier garbage so I don't expect anything out of it, and it's perfectly fine.

>>18360649
False.

Everyone CAN BE God's children. Not everyone has made that choice, and the tragedy is not everyone will.

>>18360651
>Law of One.

You're hopeless.

>>18360650
Then you can't get the full context, you took it out of context

In context there are problems

if there is a God and a Creator, then that God made us as lesser beings than itself.

what does the creation tell us about the creator?

that somethings wrong that's what.

>>18360661
These were documents written by historians documenting events that had taken place in the region. The context is that they are historical events.

>>18360663
When you born, did you immediately assume the grandeur and glory of your adult mother and father? No. You were a pitiful child. A infant. Could barelt stand on your own. They created you as a being lesser than themselves.

What does that say?

>>18360664
No, the context is that they're interpolations and hearsay from Christians and what they believe

>>18360666
it says they are selfish to bring a life into a horrible world and created me because they can't help but obey their biological programming and all those hormones made them fuck and make me.

Did God create the universe because creating pain and suffering brings him immense pleasure?

"The beast that you saw was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the abyss"

so I guess not seeing as how the beasts are beaten and not redeemed later on

>>18360670
Wrong.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_for_the_historicity_of_Jesus

>>18360677
>Believing people who have to sign statements of faith to keep their job
Kill yourself

>>18360672
What a terrible world view you have. I am sorry that you feel this way about your parents, the world and God. I can tell you without doubt in my mind, the answer is because they wanted to have a family.

It's the same case with God, and that's why Christians call Him our Father.

>>18360682
You clearly didn't open the link. Tacitus was not a christian, and Josephus was a Jew. They were under no obligation of faith when documenting historical facts.

>>18360691
I'm talking about recent historians, you pleb.

There's problems with the fucking texts, you imbecile.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Josephus

>>18360658
It's literally the same God though.

>>18360698
I'm aware of the problems and am not surprised; there are many enemies of God. Doesn't shake my faith, and no ammount of name calling will.

>>18360702
The law of one is a bunch of pseudoscientific nonesense babbeled on by "alien channelers," some of the biggest lunatics of the occult fringe.

It's bullshit spread by charlatans.

>>18360703
You think a human can die and resurrect and that godmen exist, nothing you say will ever be the truth. You don't even know why there's two creation accounts. Jesus might have died and resurrected, but it wasn't on Earth.

>>18360710
>>18360703
fuck this is cringey to watch

>>18360708
It might be, but at any rate it is a belief system that reconciles all religions, all paranormal events, all life, all of Creation into one "theory".

What do you have to say of all the other religions? Is everyone that is not Christian going straight to hell?

>>18360497
Except he didn't exist in christfag mythology until the concept on binary deities was stolen from zoroaster.

>>18360710
Surely you have access to the akashic records and are among those who have achieved a higher understanding, a gnostic perhaps. What are you doing arguing with a mundane such as myself? You have the hidden knowledge that I lack, clearly.

>>18360714
I'm not a globalist, I'm not a moral relativist, I don't need all the religions of the world to be reconsiled for me. If there ever was a Truth -and there was, is, and ever will be- then that must mean there is also an absence of that Truth. A lie, if you will.

Jesus christ told us that He is The Way, The Truth, and The Life, that there are none who come to The Father except through Him. That is what I believe.

>>18360718
Could you please reveal to us exactly when that took place? For, if my translation is at all accurate, there's a book in the Old testament called Job that has a lot to say about Satan and this was written before Christ on earth.

>>18360710
Here's the Truth: this is God's universe. Whatever His will be, it will be done. If God wants to ressurect somebody from the dead, are you under the assumption that God would be unable to do so?

>>18360744
I'm saying it wouldn't happen here because this place is a place for the dead. One of two places, the Abyss is also located here but it is not physical. If any god exists, he wouldn't want anything to do with this place. This dimension belongs to Satan and his demons, if indeed they do exist

>>18360698
>literally no one tries to prove Jesus never existed for nearly 2000 years after his death
>his existence was never a question until thousands of years later, long after many of the primary sources and condiments regarding him have been destroyed, long after the empires/nations that he lived in ceased to exist.
There's a reason this argument is so stupid. If Jesus never existed, why did it take nearly 2000 years for LITERALLY ANYONE to make he argument he didn't exist?

Surely someone in 100ad could have said something.

>>18360749
Or actually start talking to the spirits and find out they are actually some of the best people that have existed throughout all of history. They want to help humanity in whatever ways they can.

>>18360753
We know there were Christian sects saying Jesus wasn't on Earth based on the text in 2 Peter which is a forgery. Just because nothing survived challenging the historicity of Jesus, doesn't mean it was never challenged.
>>18360754
When you speak to 'spirits' you're just projecting your own understanding to them.

>>18360313
Look OP, all these people, while some of them do have educated ideas, the fact of the matter is that, none of us truly know. If anyone says they do, then they are misunderstanding. History books, including the bible, are all written by human hand. I personally believe, that there is no such thing as good and evil in the historic sense we give it. However, there are definitely malicious and benign entities that we encounter every single day, whether you can feel them or not. I don't deny the existence of a benevolent creator, or a malicious overpower, but I do believe that these entities are greatly misunderstood, especially the popular idea of heaven and hell, good versus evil. The only advice I can give you, is become aware of your metaphysical being, intimately. Once you can say that, you have a deeper love for your person, that goes beyond our physical realm, then I would begin to ask the universe your self. You will be surprised in the answers you are given. Not all those answers, mind you, are truths. Don't ever forget that there are most certainly malicious entities in our realms that are infinitely more powerful than yourself, and they do know how easy we are deceived. That deception does certainly come for a reason, because of how our physical forms can be used by them. So, ask the universe, just use your natural intuition in your belief of what is and is not. If you are calm enough, and insightful enough, you will find the answers you seek.

>>18360749
Well you are right about one thing, Satan is the ruler of this earth. But the good news is that Christ came here to frew us from death and sin, and did in fact rise from the his tomb. He now sits at right hand of the Father, and when the Kingdom comes, God will throw the beast into the pit once and for all.
>>18360754
Before I was a Christian, I was an occultist. I have spoken with many spirits. There are angels of God and there are "spirits" from the "other side". They are demons. All of their promises are false, they have their own agenda and it does not involve your best interests.

>>18360763
But it didn't happen on Earth, he never came here

>>18360762
I see your sincerity and respect that. I would appreciate if you could acknowledge that I am preaching this message because I genuinely and sincerely believe that Christ is God. One day I hope He will reveal himself to you as he has to me.

>>18360760
Perhaps my understanding comes from a place of love, and so I see that love in them as well.
>>18360763
There are many that have their own agenda, just like on earth. Thats why I desire self determined spiritual reality. I learn from them, but I don't require them in order to know what I know within myself.

>>18360768
Then where did it happen? Zebulun genubi?

>>18360772
In the lower Heavens

>>18360771
Well I am telling you as a fact that you are meddling with something that may one day mean the second death.

>>18360777
He's already dead

>>18360775
As told by who?

>>18360779
A lot of people are.

>>18360780
By Paul and the possible original version of the Ascension of Isiah

>>18360782
We all are, that's why we're here, we are physically dead

>>18360784
Ah so you're a Gnostic. Good luck with that, never did me any ounce of good.

>>18360770
I have no doubt in the power of your beliefs, and neither do I disrespect them. I by no means hold any answers outside of my own soul. You very well could be right about Jesus Christ, and I don't condemn your belief either. The important part is that you truly feel deep love for your messiah, and belief. That's wonderful. If more people were like you, in this world, than maybe it would be a better play. Nay, it would be a better place. All I simply imply, is for people to be wary, and find their own beliefs, instead of asking. It is infinitely more powerful to come to your own conclusion through meditation and love for your own self, than to be told what to believe.

>>18360777
If that is my destiny so be it. Death is not so frightening as you believe it to be. Mostly I just really don't like other people and dying seems to be the only way ill ever really be free of them. I did see a spacecraft and the beings were sending me a message about Krishna. I have died many billions of times my soul is 22 billion years old now. After all this time one just wants to go to sleep forever more. The dimensions I miss I was in before living was a reality. The god of this universe is wise and just, I just really don't feel like staying here forever.

>>18360788
Not all are. Some are alive through Christ

>>18360760
>Just because nothing survived challenging the historicity of Jesus, doesn't mean it was never challenged.
And just because we only have a dozen or so documents that provide secular historical validity to his existence, doesn't mean there weren't hundreds of documents from contemporary historians that were lost.

>>18360804
Nope, you are physically dead and you'll never figure the way out. You'll probably end up in the Abyss

>>18360728
Why do you believe in a God that hates/dislikes/is indifferent to His Creations?

He made all, so why would he make so much people (Non-Christians) and then abandon them?

Why does your God require you to worship Him? Doesn't that sound exactly like a False God? One that feeds from worship and has spread lies about not-worshipping him in order to become more powerful and stay in control?

Why do you believe in a God who does not have infinite love towards ALL of His Creation?

>>18360805
Why wouldn't Christians have saved them? There's more evidence of them not saving things that talk about 30-33CE. Why is that?

>>18360792
If you ask sincerely, with a genuine heart, for God to come into your life and to steer you in the right direction, I know that He will. It happened to me and it'll happen tk everyone who asks earnestly. On your search for the Truth I have full confidence that if keep searching, we will meet each other when the Kingdom comes.

>>18360812
Because I get it and you don't, I guess. I hope one day you will.

>>18360805
Also, there are problems with the texts, there's only 3 said to be legit references to Jesus and they all have problems with them. Two of them are from Josephus and the 3rd is from Tacitus

>>18360814
Because there were plentt of herasies going around. The greeks have a habbit of overintellectualizing things to the point that they're nonsense. Look at Plato, for instance.

>>18360823
Even if they are heresies, do they not care about historical context? Are the 'heresies' so damning that they have to ruin history. Plus, they didn't save stuff from Tacitus that talked about the 30CE, small part

>>18360734
http://www.sacred-texts.com/evil/hod/hod07.htm

https://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/d/devil_and_the_pathology_of_history.html

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>>18360313
>If lucifer willingly went to hell, to turn hell into earth, and earth into heaven when Jesus comes back, would that redeem him?
Once you're on the highway to hell, you're irredeemable and an abomination to God already, so fat chance. In fact, he'll suffer the worst pain imaginable in the lake of fire.

>>18360818
Please do elaborate. I am interested nevertheless. Often I like to play devil's advocate for no reason other than to learn more. Keep arguing with me pls

What is it I don't get? Is it that God lies in the search for Jesus/Himself? Is it that one must willingly go to Him?

>>18360881
Read Exodus, this is the God we are talking about. Then read the Gospel of John. This is the man that He became. Have an open mind and pray to Him. The rest will fall into place.

>>18360814
They did save them. The library at Caesarea had tons of books and documents and was destroyed by Islamic conquerors.

Sometimes you try to save the dox and you get fucked and lose them. Israelites, for example, were taken to Babylon and made captives--they had to recreate their Torah and books as best they could while in captivity. The Romans sacked Jerusalem and ran off with treasures and documents and all sorts of stuff. It happens.

This isn't the modern age where there are thousands of copies of everything and all information is networked/decentralized. Origen's hexapla was a massive, massive tome and was likely one of a kind. It's lost forever, like many other docs. Some get stolen, some get destroyed--that's just the way it is.

>>18360898
I am glad that you know what I don't.

>>18360523
Also, he didn't give us free will. If we didn't already have free will, the serpent never could have tempted us to disobey. What he gave us is a disease and that disease is sin.

>>18360497
>our adversary
Speak for yourself

>>18360559
>Satan's entire goal is to lead us away from God.
Yay thanks for confirming me as a satanist!

>>18360596
>The one thing He does not have power over is our own free will, and that is due to His endless love for us.
Then if there is no Satan, there eventually WILL be one.

>>18360666
>>18360684
But our parents begat us with the hope that at some point, we'd become our own beings, as great as them, and possibly greater.

God can hold no hope for this, and sustaining so is heretical ;)

>>18360728
>If there ever was a Truth -and there was, is, and ever will be- then that must mean there is also an absence of that Truth. A lie, if you will.

Yeah. When logic agrees with you it's welcome, when it doesn't throw it out the window.

>>18360887
This does not explain why I cannot worship the same God under a different name. The one I worship is the same as yours. As well as Jesus, except that I believe that all of us is as important as Jesus is to Him.

>>18360626
Better get back to the (((Clinic))) since your work is done here

>>18360713
So leave
>why do heavily indoctrinated people come to places they claim to hate?
Makes zero sense

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>>18360313
And everything written is true because it's old. Questioning the validity of things is for idiots, right? I'm not an atheist. But stories and parables are just that.

>>18360898
Funny because there's evidence of them not saving specific excerpts of documents that coincide with when Jesus was crucified

And that's of stuff we have.

>>18360313

We're in the process of finding out as we speak.