/OMG/ Occult and Magick General - Tierra Tiembo edition

What happened to frater k?

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>>18350856
I think he's just busy at the moment.
No worries.

>>18350856
Reptilians ate his soul.

>>18350882

I thought he was ducking alimony payments to that sphinx he was shacked up with for awhile?

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at last

>mfw going back to regular meditation practice after a couple of years
I can't enter gnosis even for a second, I feel like a complete fucking noob, holy shit
I'm stuck with just reading occult material until I get my mad skills back, really sad

this is what untreated severe depression, anxiety and substance abuse do to your mind lads

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The 45 Paths of Obatala.
In Palo Mayombe, he is the spirit name Tierro Tiembo.
He is the father of Lucero, Zarabando, and Watariamba. (The Warriors)

FIRST PATH: OBATALA ORISHA AYE

Here we find the purest and most mystical aspect of Obatala. S/he is feminine and born of the sea. S/he is represented by means of a large shell, named Okinkonko. In Santeria this path is tied to the Orisha Ochun. The necklace for its adoration is fashioned with twenty-five stones (?) the color of egg yolk and (to make the connection?) you sacrifice white doves.

>>18350905
>I can't enter gnosis
What would it be / was it like if/when you could? Superpowers or just the usual ole yogi-meditation peace-of-mind yabbadoo?

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>>18350925
SECOND PATH: OBATALA ORISHANLA

Is imagined as a trembling old woman who wants to be covered with a white sheet. She protects you from traps and has large hands She eats cocoa butter. Her necklace is made with egg-yolk yellow and ivory. In Santeria she is syncretized with St. Anne.

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>>18350954
THIRD PATH: OBATALA IGBA IBO

Represents divine thought and is symbolized by the eye of Divine Providence. It cannot be seen, and those who manage to see it are left blind. It is symbolized by an old person with wrinkles and white hair.

>>18350925
>>18350954
>>18350964
Is this gonna be 45 posts in total? :D

>>18350949
literally empty mind

when I wasn't planning on using that state to start doing magic and instead just tried to maintain it as a part of training, sometimes some weird things would happen
mostly spontaneous insights, very symbolic in nature, sometimes ESP, often just astral projection

I find it really hard to describe because we think all the fucking time so non-thinking is pretty damn abstract concept if you ask me

>>18350971

Really? Thinking is the foreign state for me, and a whistling breeze between my two ears is as natural as breathing.

>>18351003
you wouldn't be able to function without thinking most of the time

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>>18350968
Maybe MORE!!!
MWAHAHA

But, seriously. All jokes aside. Some of these things you may never have another opportunity to learn about. Some of these traditions and stories are guarded pretty fiercely.

>>18350905
I had a spell like that too. But, I went and got some bit of help. I have lifelong treatment resistant major depressive disorder and social anxiety. Youll get through this, promise. Any chance of a low income mental health center nearby? Thats where I go. They judge you less, dont try to drag you into inpatient, and they have pretty fast turn times when youre in for an appointment. If you earn under a certain amount per year, your visits and any meds can be for free or reduced cost. They help me tread water, which is better than sinking. Its not for everyone, but its just a friendly suggestion.
Im rooting for you, Anon!

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>>18350964
FOURTH PATH: OBATALA OBA LUFON

Represents the sun and is identified with Jesus of Nazareth. It was he who gave man speech and taught him how to have sex. (That's right..Sexy Jesus.)
When you want to request something from him, you must place sixteen parrot feathers on your head. It was he who taught man to weave with
needles. He is the inventor of carpentry and is the protector of mothers.

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>>18351079

FIFTH PATH: OBATALA OCHA GRINAN

He is the messenger of Olofi. He raises the mountains from the low places. Represented by the Crucified Christ. He is also considered a soldier (guerrero) and he taught to Orula the secrets de pelar el name.

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>>18351159
SIXTH PATH: OBATALA ACHO

His presence stimulates the dance and directs the rhythms. He is a soldier and wears a red waistband.

This is one of my favorite paths of Obatala. Obatala as cosmic dancer.

Bho Shambo Bharatynatyam:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d4DmP94-Epk

How would you consecrate an object to get it rid of possible bad energy? I know I could google, but I want to hear how would YOU do it. Just for to see different approaches to a same purpose.

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>>18351250
Do you mean the object has been used before and retains some residue, and you want to start over with it?
Or is this a newly made item that for whatever reason needs to be cleaned before use?

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>>18351250
Fill a tub with mineral spirits and scrub it with a toothbrush, then anoint with oil. It's how I get the slavgrease off anyway.

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What is the /x/ consensus on Goetia summoning?

>>18351255
the first one

>>18351316
you will very probably become homosexual. If you already are, go ahead, no trouble.

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>>18351250
Anon, can you wait for me to get back from the grocery?
Sorry, irl things to do.
When I get back I can send you some ideas.
But, I really need to know the answer to this >>18351255

I want to have the energy of a succubus or someone that people are drawn to. I want to be popular in the sense that others will have the unconscious feeling to flock to me. I used to have it and it was nice because I could help people and communities and give advice and be a very good person, even when no one knew me. However, somehow I lost it, and I still want to help others. What do.

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>>18351322
K, give me about an hour to run and buy some dog food so these mogrels dont chew my foot off in my sleep.
Ill be back with your answer.
Dont time me, cause I need drive time.

Hello, very recently I've started reading a lot more on the subject of occultism and magick. What I hadn't realized before is that it's a tool of autosuggestion that can be very useful for self improvement. The thing is, and I don't mean to shit on you senpaitachi, I don't believe in the paranormal, I believe the occult arts and magick work because of how our brains function, autosuggestion is an incredibly powerful thing.

And so, I find that most of the techniques in the occult are needlessly 'ritualistic'. I understand their point, but I don't agree that it's the only way, and I believe you can achieve the same results with more pragmatic, more grounded, less 'rpy' ways, as you call it. Is there no school follows this?

From what I've read, chaos magick seems to be the closest to it. I read the Psychonaut field manual and the first few chapters were okay with me, but it's already too much for me when it talks about protection and banishing rituals, and summoning servants and the latter parts are already obvious how badly they meld with me. Again, I understand it's all symbolic and in your mind, but I don't believe this is the best way. I've also noticed people use chaos magick as a blanket term for all magick that doesn't fit into any other school.

So I believe this is simply not for me, unless there's indeed some school like what I believe. I still believe in the mechanics and principles in which magick and occultism opperate though, and people here seem well read, so you lads can probably point me to some book or concept more like what I'm looking for, because I can't find the proper term with which to googlefu this.

Cheers lads.

>>18351347
>>18351359

There is no hurry man. Dont worry!

>>18351522
What you're searching for is plain Hypnosis. There was a guy called Surgo Ad in this threads that had a great library about it. You should search for it in Occult threads around past february/March.

Also, even if you choose to believe that is all autosuggestion, you should remember that the rituals are never too "rpy"; they can "trick your mind" more than not doing them. Also, your mind may be bigger and stranger than you ever dreamed of

>>18351003
Perhaps you lack the awareness to realize your ego is jabbering away underneath that breeze.

Or perhaps you have acquired the skill naturally. Do you practice any kind of magick?

>>18350925
I am very new to all this and was wondering, what exactly is Lucero?

When you need to curse someone what kind of stuff you do? Im not talking about the typical conflict that can be resolved with balls, but these situations were you can't do nothing but curse them.

Is this a good resource for coming up with my own rituals also from a kabbalistic and planetary standpoint?

If not, other than the internet at large, what good extensive publications on correspondences are there? No need to touch on spirits, as I have grimoires for that.

t. Chaos Magician. Pls no bully

>>18351688
https://books.google.es/books?id=QNbUBYBejO0C&lpg=PA141&ots=UkLFTaQu11&pg=PP1#v=onepage&f=false

Forgot link.

>>18351583
I'll look into Hypnosis, but what I forgot to add is, it seems like the occult and magick are also good tools for introspection which I'm also interested in, whereas hypnosis is exclusively transformative.

I don't mind the rituals too much either and I understand their purpose, but they feel too dramatic, as a better word, to me. Exploring my mind and the strange things there can be in it greatly appeals to me definitely.

Thanks for the answer, I appreciate it.

>>18351798
Thinking a little bit more about it, I figure I can just make my own rituals and techniques, taking those which already exist as guidance and inspiration

inb4 i end up D A M A G E D

What's the best way to do nadi shodana? HYP says to hold your breath as long as manageable, but some people like to do 4-16-8 or whatever.

>>18351688
>good extensive publications on correspondences
numberman.net
Godwin's Qabbalistic Encyclopedia
Crowley's 777
Skinner's Complete Magician's Tables
Agrippa's Three Books

You guys have probably been asked this a lot but I'm just getting into magick and I'm interested but from what I've seen they mostly involve sexual pleasure and the like, I'm interested in Wiccan texts but I don't know how to start, any advice?

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>>18351567
Ok, Sorry that took longer than expected.
So, when surgeons go into surgery they start with prepping a sterile field.
You wouldnt go in to surgery with dirty hands, no gloves, no iodine - and we need to think along those same lines here.
First we need to make sure the area we are working in, and the mundane tools we may be using to do this are clean.
So, if I tell you "use a bucketful of this", assume you are going to need to take some dish soap to your bucket first. If I call for a mop, be sure to wash your mop head in the washer with hot water and soap first.
You will need to make enough Florida Water to clean yourself and the room you will be working in.
If you want to get fancy, you can also have a big seashell and a large turkey feather. It just depends on what floats your boat.
You can make Florida Water from any of these plants:
Lavender, Rosemary, Thymme, Mint, Hollyhock, Chamomile, Espanta Muerto, Bleo Blanco, Sage, Bay leaves, Ruda, Kosher Salt, Hyssop, Rose, and a variety of others you can find with a Google search if none of these float your boat.

You need to make enough Florida Water that you can clean yourself, mop in the room where you work, and keep a tiny bit over to wipe the item you are wanting to clean.
I would smudge the air in the work room too, but thats just me.
Wouldnt hurt to smudge the item as well.
If you really want to nuke that item from orbit (its the only way to be sure) have some of your Florida water in a spray bottle. Rub the item down with kosher salt, spritz it with the Florida Water, the smudge the hell out of it.
Take all of your cleaning mixes, smudge ashes, and the item you were cleaning, mop, etc outside to the east. Dump out the water, wring out the mop, dust off the item if you rubbed it with salt, dispose of the ashes all when facing to the east, on the east side of your lot, yard, whatever you have where you live.

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>>18352043

You're really giving me an urge to start looking at hoodoo seriously. Seems interesting.

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>>18351682
Lucero is a liminal spirit or diety.
He stands at the door between this world and the next.
Two of his other names are Papa Legba, and Elegua.
He is different things to different people.
Crossroads demon, old man with a cane, young child playing on a front stoop.
He is always the first spirit you call when doing any work in Afro-Carib tradition.
Sorry, its taking me a while to post because my router is jacked up and my wifi connection keeps cutting out.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GsB_cGdgPTo

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>>18351222
So, were up to number 7.

SEVENTH PATH: OBATALA OBA MORO

Represented by an old person and represents the pain and sacrifice necessary to reach one's goals. Is represented by a crown of thorns.

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>>18352226
EIGHTH PATH: OBATALA EFUN YOBI

In the past he was worshipped in ways which are forgotten today. He is represented by San Jose de la Montana.

Saint Josef is the patron saint of laborers and fathers.

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>>18352292

NINTH PATH: OBATALA YEKU YEKU

The protector of health, syncretized with the Holy Trinity. Represents patience and humility. Its necklace is made of white beads with balls of mother of pearl and ivory.

Palo-kun, what would you say are the three most important books that someone who wants to understand ATR should read? Likewise for Palo Mayombe.

>>18351861
Hey thoth, How problematic would joining OTO be if i were to further pursue tantra? With time, my interest in crowley grow nd i cant help but wonder about the order. Is it worth joining? Would it limit my possibilities?

also, if you could reccomend some reading order on OTO materials from you rlibrary, it would be p. dank.

>>18352749
Don't. He'll say the same thing. The OTO is mundane, meme-tier nowadays. If you want to further pursue tantra, why would you go with something like the OTO?

>>18352776
honestly, community of people who are interested in any shape or form in any type of occult, tantra or not, would be nice.

>>18352781
You'd think so, until you're getting fisted by a 9th degree and you think to yourself "hey wait, I haven't learned anything new yet, and I've been here a year, and now my asshole is bleeding profusely". If you want to pursue tantra, there are much better things to do. Go to India and meet some aghoris, seeing as that's your trip. I will bet you any amount of money than it would be 500 times more productive than wasting your time with any OTO buffoons.

>>18352799
been to India, met agoris which is where my trip came from. But couldnt stay there with them as before initiation the Guru required a permission from my family to do so, as he knew they are alive. Since they werent ok with their son "becoming a homeless freak in dindunuffinstan", m fucked untill they are alive. (not that i hate them for it and want them to die, but i think you know what i mean)

but if you say its completly pointless maybe il find some other similar, less fuked community or organization.

>>18352810
That's pretty sweet. Next time around, tell the Guru your parents are dead, maybe it will work? Not sure if that's unethical but I mean...if sitting on corpses isn't unethical then a little lie shouldn't be too bad.

I'd say that you should maybe look into the OTO a bit before saying "no". Wait for Ape, he'll say pretty much the same thing iirc, and I'm sure you take his opinion more seriously than some nobody like myself.

>>18352823
I find it unethical in lieing to my guru, so would he if he were to ever find out, and i find angerying any aghori a bad idea. I take your word for OTO though, i had second thoughts myself as i dont think theres many communities that focus on spirituality anymore. Freemasons became a drinking club, OTO seems to be a fetishist club for those who need intense rationalization for their kinks as they feel guilty about it ( probably because of christian backgrounds and feelings of sin)

its sad .

>>18352878
True about the lying to the guru. I guess you have to kill your parents.

Yeah it's a shame. I was thinking about joining the OTO as well but I got put off by their superficiality. I guess it's my fault for having expectations but I didn't find them to be unreasonable. Likewise with the Freemasons. At least in the city that I live in and the surrounding cities, the masons are a glorified networking group filled with boring, mundane, superficial people. It's almost like a rotary club. What a joke. Let's start out own organization, with blackjack and hookers.

>>18352889
Tbh starting an organization less focused on their set of beliefs and more on personal pursuit of whatever field of occult/related activity would be an ok idea. Maybe having some unifying principles, for which thelema seems an ok candidate (do what thou wilt shall be the whole of law- do your thing, we wont mandate jack shit)

What is the best initiate for white magick? I'm very new and would like not to waste time or get turned off with a poor start, but i'll pour through any book if it's good.

Does anyone have a pdf?
I only have a phone for internet currently. Help greatly appreciated.

>>18352914
Ehh, I don't know. I've kinda been put off by all the meme-organizations and how the cool ones turned into memes as time went on. I don't think they're more conducive to spiritual progress than solo work, and when solo work reaches its limits, it's much more interesting to go to a faraway land to find a guru and take your practice to the next level than it is it to meet up with some local neckbeard thele-meme-ites, ya dig?

>>18352923
practical sigil magick by frater U. D. , once read (its a short book) practice sigils, add daily atleast 10 minute meditation (from personal experience, its best to take a cold shower before. overall cold showers are good both health wise and magic wise) and some kabbalah reading (thoth will better reccomend something for this)

thatd be a good beginning, imho. If you enjoy not only reading one tradition of magic but the general structure of all systems, Liber Kaos by peter j carrol. It is about chaos magic, but the structure presented in it does apply to practicly every system ever. Makes further reading into any tradition ezpz.

>>18352939
i dig i dig, but its always nice to have the ability to find somone likeminded, and actually talk with them about what you do. and solo work has very hard limits.

>>18352951
Finding someone likeminded =/= necessity of an organization. Just find some peeps. Shouldn't be too hard (it'll be easier than starting an organization, for sure). Also, solo work doesn't have limits. Just say the mahamantra seven hundred billion times and you'll be Saved(tm). I heard some Krishnite faggot say something similar to that; he's gotta know something we don't. O Krishna, release me from the torment of having to listen to your retarded followers!

>>18352953
>Krishnites
REEEEEEEE!

finding peeps in a cathocuck country does not belong to the easiest. Plus most of the modern occultism is completly newage candycoat. It hurts to even listen to a wiccan.

hey boys

I'm trying to develop a deeper understanding of the occult. I have the the Kybalion coming in the mail. Can you recommend any other good books relating to this subject? Preferably ones that are good for beginners. Thank you.

Is it really possible to practice witchcraft effectively in a way that just takes from multiple cultures and beliefs?

>>18352959
Ree indeed. I use "wiccan" as an insult a lot of the time with the practioners that I am friends with. It's a pretty useful wildcard, like "meme". Sometimes I'll chain them together, like the other day. I saw a really bad looking new age-y book, and I turned to my friend and said "look at this fucking author, he's just a meme-peddling wiccan". Gotta thank wiccans for being so bad that their name becomes an insult/catch-all for garbage modern new age bullshit.

>>18352914
I'm sure someone of your stature will get pissed off by me saying this, but that's not what "do what thou wilt" means.

It has nothing to do with "do whatever you want".

>>18352951
Solo work has limits? Now I know you're full of memes.

Go back to meditation and do something about that ego, son.

>>18352966
At this stage the Kybalion will seem weird and useless. Don't throw it away and re-read it down the line.

Liber Kaos and The Octavo. Kabbalah and the Great Work of Self-transformation. It depends on what you want to do.

i have very reactive ego, i can control my behaviors, but inside i react already, all time. what can i do? hatha ? meditation?

also i do some kind of cleansing and shielding which it works. but its halfass and kitbashed chaos thing. so what do i need to do

>>18352966
>paying for fucking kybalion
I'm stunned
how much money did you waste on it?

Holy fucking shit.Yesterday I did the enochian SIRP and the usual LBRP.I have to say that this ritual really fucked me up.Not only did something play with my dreams but I also had constant malicious and disturbing visions.I always felt an eerie vibe around my room like I was being watched and I heard things cracking and screaming.

So is my mind playing tricks on me or are the enochian spirits fucking with me?

>>18353284
May have been the merging or something, I was acting like a fucking animal for some reason.

Probably to get people in line. About what time were your visions occurring?

>>18353182
can i have a practical advice for it? thanks in advance.

>>18353293
I woke up at like 3 a.m. So the visions started at this time. I saw a lot of different black and hideous entities piercing me with daggers, burning me with wands, drowning me with water from their cups and draining me with their pentacles.
At times I could clearly see in my mind that something was standing before me and looking at me.

>>18353325
Oh yeah, I woke up at 3 too. Sleeping is a big irregular right now. Maybe I'm pulsing out shit randomly and it's hitting people.

>>18351583
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwLJ8mj-ZuoGc0NKUEtoLTBmQXc?usp=sharing

>>18351798
>it seems like the occult and magick are also good tools for introspection which I'm also interested in, whereas hypnosis is exclusively transformative.

Hypnosis is a pre-requisite to the occult. And yes, it works significantly better for introspection as well.

Look into Roy Hunter's work, as well as R2C modalities of therapy.

>wasting time trying to acquire magic powers instead of working on yourselves and getting closer to your true selves instead of feeding your mechanical egos

talking to spirits isn't gonna help you in your next lives

>>18353415
look at this egoless hippie cuck
lmaoing @ ure ((no))life

>>18353415
>unironically using cuck outside of /pol/

>>18353317
You are not supposed to kill off your ego. You are supposed to learn to control it as a part of yourself, which seems to be what you're doing.

>>18353325
Holy fuck. I'm just about to get started with enochian magick. I didn't know I'm in for this much !!fun!!

>>18353450
>unironically being a cuck

>>18352823
>Next time around, tell the Guru your parents are dead
If your guru can't tell you're lying about such a personal thing, he's a shit guru.

>>18352959
>finding peeps in a cathocuck country does not belong to the easiest
So leave. Go tell your guru you've disowned and no longer acknowledge your parents and become a necromancer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA-fM9navPQ

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>>18353412
>that smug folder
kurwa filip

>>18354180
What?

>>18354184
never mind, I mistook some stuff on google drive for being yours

Is there anything left of nazi occultism or is it all hidden away in secret ex-soviet libraries?

>>18354197
>>>/pol/

>>18354074
Unexpectedly dank.

>>18353415
>implying ego is bad
>implying the Highest is an aspect of "true self"
>implying physical and mental discipline isn't cornerstone

>>18354218
I don't think you got the memo but occultism isn't exactly politically correct. You can leave that pathetically childish Pavlovian response to politics you don't like at the door.

>>18352167
No worries, friend, I greatly appreciate it.

hi guys

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>>18354238
>mfw a stormnigger replies to me

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>>18353415

peter carroll's liber Kaos:

"There are dangers inherent in the development of the sleight of mind (anon's note: akin to fire and forget by this book) technique for enchantment and divination. It is easy to become obsessed with what might or might not lurk just below the threshold of consciousness waiting to be triggered by a stray analogical thought. Thus a feeling of omnipotence can begin to develop, particularly if the magician starts to misinterpret divination as enchantment and comes to feel that everything going on around him is the result of his subconscious desires. The final madness begins when one starts interpreting even the disasters which befall one as expressions of what one must really have wanted. Paranoia can also become a vicious downward spiral. Those who harbour subconscious fears of things going wrong, or going against them, will find it remarkably easy to actually make things go badly for themselves with even a small degree of expertise at sleight of mind. The only defence against pitfalls is to adhere to the formal techniques of enchantment and divination, to ignore random results where possible, or to accept them with laughter, and as a general principle to think positive at all times, for such thoughts will permeate down to the subconscious"

Read this and felt that it was pretty relevant to my situation. Is there any way to clean the subconscious from unwanted shit?
As far as I know, maybe keeping all my possible troubles on the conscious mind can help, but at some time, i need my waking mind to perform common life. Any help there?

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>>18354593
Here. You are forever safe now.

>>18351684
Cut your balls off and make an offering of them to some deity of destruction. Unbeknownst to you, your type of conflict can be resolved with balls.

when you banish, do demons retreat into the subconscious? If so, isn't even worse to have them there than on the waking mind?

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>>18352685
Im going to go about this a little differently than you might be expecting, but hear me out.
Hopefully it will be worth your time.
There are some skills that you need first that can not be taught in a book. You cant be trained to have these. If you dont find them inately in yourself, then I cant promise that any sort of mumbo jumbo is going to work for you.
The skills you need are:
Self awareness
Curiousity
Imagination
Empathy
Ingenuity
Determination
Humility
It helps if you have ever been involved in theater, dance, singing, playing an instrument, or some type of painting, drawing, etc.
You need to understand and be completely open to immersing yourself in culture and comcepts that may be completely foreign to you. Some things will be alien because your sum of life experiences is completely different from a native practitioner. Things that you may think are stupid, make perfect sense to them. If you can be ok with that, because you have any of the skills previously mentioned, then its lkay to proceed. But, if for some reason, you cant be ok with that then there is no reason to proceed.
The first thing you need to do is a THOROUGH research of European conquest in North America and the West African slave trade. DO NOT half ass it. You really need to get deep in the shit, and know what these people went through on all sides of the equation. Once again, if you arent ok with that, then no reason to proceed.
You need to really get into comparative religion. I have no clue if youve ever reasearched anything about comparative religion. A good book is The Golden Bough. Its an oldie but goodie classic.
Here is a Project Gutenburg link: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3623
This book is free in the public domain for anyone to read or download. If Ape does not have this in his library already, then he should add it.
>>(Cough, cough, ahem)
Continued.....

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>>18354784
You may get into this book and realize that you dont want to know about ATR, you want to know about something else that fits you better. ( I cant guess what that might be, it could be anything.)
You should watch any documentaries ormshows that you can about Paleolithic and Neolithic hominids.
An excellent one is The Cave of Forgotten Dreams by Werner Herzog. Everytime I watch this, I literally feel my soul tingling. I cant really describe what thats like. Its a really primitive, instinctual response. Its almost the feeling of looking at something so beautiful that it is painful, and you can feel you heart being stabbed by the beauty of it.

Here is a link to Cave of Forgotten Dreams:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dfE-xmC7gMI

You need to really be relaxed and open minded, and let the music in this film help to take you somewhere, not here. Maybe in the cave, maybe back in time. I cant dictate how it will make you feel. Im just trying to base this on my responses that I know, and I can only hope yours will be similar.
For any animist style system, you really need to try to deconstruct you DNA psychologically and get back to the ability to have a primitive child like sense of wonder, and the ability to suspend your disbelief - because you need to be at 0 and know nothing about anything, so anything is possible.

Now, if you havent found anything else you like better and you still want to ATR I would strongly suggest you watch lots of shows about Africa. Not about big cities, but about the rural areas of Africa. The animals, the Dinka, The Bushmen. But, mainly the animals. Pay attention to the interactions of the animals and the natural hierarchy. I need you to see and pay attention to this like a hunter would, if all the hunter had was a sharpened stick as a tool. If you can go to Africa and sit for a long time and quietly was and listen for animals, even better. Most people cant afford that, so we have to content ourselves with the tele.
Continued...

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>>18354814
Okay, so now that we are in that head space ( and hopefully ylu didnt zone out half way through) I can tell you the books that I would suggest.
Some of them may not be cconsidered "important" or "groundbreaking", but I own them, Ive read them, I use them, and they have informed me and my process and maybe they will be helpful to you too.
The Goblin Universe by Ted Holiday
Santeria The Religion by Mignene Gonzalez Whippler
Practical Sigil Magick by Frater UD
The book of the mysteries of the Heavens and the Earth translated by EA Wallis Budge printed by Ibis Press
The Sign and the Seal by Graham Hancock
Mind Magic I dont see an authors name on this, but it was printed by Ourobourus Sundown Press.
The Maya by Michael D Coe
The Golden Bough by Sir JG Frazer
Devotions to the Saints by Anna Riva
Magick with Incense and Powders by Anna Riva
Culpeppers Color Herbal by Nicholas Culpepper
The Curious Lore of Precious Stones by George Frederick Kunz
Carlos Montenegra is usually a pretty good author on this topic, and so is Gonzales Whippler, as far as the Afro-Carib traditions.
Im sure Im leaving a few things out, because Ive loaned some books out to people who never brought them back, and Im going by what I see on the shelf in my bedroom right now.
The books that I reference the most, I keep in that shelf.
There are others, but I dont feel like they would be necessarily helpful to list here.
Im sorry to end it on this note, but really it took me 33 years to get to this point with what I know. Its really to condense everything into this format in a way that will be instructional to others.

>>18353487

Imagine the !!fun!! when you finally finish your masterwork tin Sigillum Dei Aemeth, decorated with table-cut tigereyes and studded with sterling silver, and all the happy thoughts you'll have everytime you use it; it won't matter if your pet dog is rotting in the backyard because your uncle forgot to place a casket in the basement.

How woke are freemasons? I know one.

Would he be able to tell I practice too?

I've been practicing on and off for three years not really doing much

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>>18354814
PS the first link is jacked up.
Use this one.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zvpQBbW7P8E

>>18355053
Not at all and nope.

>>18355060
Makes sense, he would have to be a really good manipulator since he seems very normal and goodhearted

>>18354814
>Cave of Forgotten Dreams by Werner Herzog. Everytime I watch this, I literally feel my soul tingling.

I knew I loved you Palo Kun... this is the other rootworker who chimes in from time to time, I cannot agree with you more here.

If you are interested whatsoever in primitive spirituality, the beginnings of human magical practices, the origins of initiation, or the significance of dreams and abstract representation to our souls... this is not a movie you should miss.

If you see Cave of Forgotten Dreams and feel nothing, you are dead inside.

Hey PaloChan.

I have this encyclopaedia of occult symbols... I'm still on the fence whether it's trustworthy at all, but it *is* a good quick reference if you can check the individual attributions elsewhere / already know them. (I.E. the shit I'm familiar with seems to be right, other stuff I can't know)

Under the "Signs and symbols of secret orders and societies", there's a section scantly titled "Vudú", which makes me think you could help me here.

In this section, symbols attributed to a "loa" (which I have zero actual knowledge about) with a given name and a short paragraph describing the powers/domain of the particular loa.

Thing is, two of these symbols are virtually identical with two Goetic sigils.

Ring any bells?

>>18355126
Not Palo, but Im familiar with exactly what you're talking about. You're not hallucinating, it's a thing.
I have even seen certain symbols being used actively, outside of a book, that are shared by goetic entities.

I am not certain what the significance of this is.

Theres a couple options:
1. We know that the diaspora has been heavily influenced, corrupted, or fed by european magical traditions and interpretations. It is not impossible that someone from within the diaspora got ahold of some goetic text, or document, and seeing a symbol/spirit they liked, sycnhed it up to a diasporic spirit (a loa or an orixa), or alternatively, not speaking a european language, saw a symbol that just LOOKED like it would relevant to that spirit, and made the assumption.

The other option is that these spirits ARE the same and are using different names. Given that their attributes in the goetia and in ATR are pretty different, Im not sure I believe this.

Third option, its not impossible to recreate similar, and simple symbols, but unfortunately I dont think this is the case as most of the symbols you're talking about are fairly specific and complex.

Im going with option one, whereby the symbols were borrowed into the diaspora through european contact.

>>18355168

well thanks for the swift reply my dear anon

Yeah well, the two option I was juggling were:

A) the symbols are nearly the same because of some historical reason

or

B) the book is bullshitting me on the loa symbols - not expert or anything on goetic stuff but at least it looks right and is damn easy to check.

I don't think your third option is the case, either. Also these two pairs of symbols, both show similar mirroring or transposition of elements (on top of other minor differences) which looks muchly (lol) like one is derived from the other, in whatever order.

Also, I'm wondering for completeness sake, is there any possibility that the goetic sigils are derived from the loa sigils, and not the other way around? Or both from a common precursor?

Or do the relevant timelines exclude such possibilities?

It's one of those little weird nagging things... like when in my teens I kept confusing Strength and Justice from the tarot and years later I learned there was an actual controversy over switching the numbers of those two particular cards.

>>>/his/1985237

>>18355234

I'm not part of any religion and have no idea about nearly anything these guys are talking about, yet somehow it seems interesting.

>>18355126
Post the Veve so I can see what you are talking about. Not the Goeticc symbol, but the Veve of the Lwa.
Most of them only share some vague similarities, but Im curious now.
I am eagerly awaiting being shocked.
Bring it on!

wtf it's you too D:

>>18355197
in regards to your option B, it is possible, but I find it unlikely. Ultimately this ruse would be very transparent and the author would be found out. It would be WAY easier just to make some shit up than to use an existing symbol thats known. The author mustve known hed be found out. Also, again, I have SEEN these symbols being used in legitimate rites, so it's a thing, I dont think author is bullshitting you.

>goetic derived from loa
I seriously doubt this for several reasons:
1. As far as I am aware, the goetia predates much of the diaspora traditions. Now to be clear it does not predate ATR itself, which is possibly 14-16 thousand years old, or older if you count pre-human practices.. However the common use of veve and inscriptions of these sort is very much a diaspora thing. Im nearly 100% positive that it came from european influences.

I think the bigger and more interesting question is:
If I take a symbol dedicated to say... kuan-yin, or shiva, or whoever.... and I synchretize just the symbol over to some other, unrelated god, and that information becomes disseminated and practiced.... to whom does the symbol belong? Who does it call when used? Both? Neither? Whoever intent is focused on?

Its a very interesting topic.

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I've looked a bit but can't find it. Is there a copy of the lesser key of Solomon in the mega link? If so where is it located?

The Joseph H Peterson edited one preferred

>>18355277
JSK links goetia with ATR (among other influences) in the introduction to geosophia. It's entirely possible that it came into goetia 5000 years ago or vice-versa.

Most likely though is the french connection, especially if tripfag was getting it in a secion labeled "vudu".

>>18351250
Wash it with running water, that will erase any etheric patterns the object is storing. No special ritual is necessary for this, that is a "natural magic" effect.

>>18353043
Thank you.
>>18353184
Less than 5 dollars

I like to have physical copies of books, I know I could've read it for free

>>18355284
Grimoires > Solomon

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>>18355246
Pic related 0:

>>18355277
Yeah, that was the kind of explanation I was looking for :)

About the book bullshitting me, that doesn't mean the author is doing so intentionally, it might be drawing from unaccurate sources

>the bigger and more interesting question

Well if it's used for two different gods, it belongs to two different gods. To what extent they are different gods and why should be a matter of further scrutiny.

I'm tempted to say that if a symbol is imported into a form of synchretism, probably some meanings are carried over too. Maybe if these symbols were brought from goetic magic, at the time of doing so, the attributes of the two spirits/demons/gods/whatever they represent in the two different traditions had recognizable stuff in common, but later diverged as time passed and traditions changed.

Still, the "not speaking a relevant european language" clause is a counter-argument to that; but maybe it was associated to a pictorial representation that DID have attributes in common.

>>18355303
>french connection

I'm suspecting this too

>>18355303
>JSK links goetia with ATR
maybe there is an earlier connection then, I dont know what I think about that without reading the relevant text.

I guess the thing that continues to bother me about that explanation is, given the practices and beliefs of ATR, and the diaspora... I highly doubt a symbol would remain unchanged for over 5000 years, these systems just dont work that way... even individual veve change from house to house in the same time period... over 5000 years? It feels unlikely.

>>18354876
>The Goblin Universe by Ted Holiday
Do you have a digital copy of this that you would be willing to share?

>>18355336
>drawing from unaccurate sources
leme say it one more time:
I have seen legitimate diaspora rites using symbols that closely resemble, or literally are the same saymbols as used in goetia. Whether the authors sources are accurate or not, I know for a fact, that symbols have been used in "proper" rites, that makes them correct in my book.

regarding the discussion about the "french connection" do keep in mind that french occultists were the single largest influence on haitian vodou from europe. They had an enormous impact on the foundations of the practices of Haitian vodou.

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Im getting lazy, and its time for bed.
Go here for the rest of the 45 paths of Obatala, otherwise aka Tierra Tiembla.

http://www.luckymojo.com/esoteric/religion/african/diasporic/santeria/obatalapaths.html

This is an old UseNet text file archive.
You can find some kernels of wisdom here.

>>18355364
>leme say it one more time:

Yes yes, I was only explaining the reasons for my initial epoché, not leveling it against your first-hand experience.

>>18355361
I dont right at the moment, but I will try to scare one up.

>>18355336
K gonna take a close look tomorrow after work.

>>18355375

yikes why does it have untranslated fragments

>>18355332
Thank you

>>18355381
oh my bad, that came off super hostile of me, shitty wording. I actually thought you just hadnt read it because you were excited in chasing down a theory, no offense meant truly.

>>18355433
None taken, my comment could be read as being dismissive of your input or just plain hard-headed so I just explained my stance more thoroughly.

BTW, what we've been discussing is actually regarded to in passing at the start of the /sum/ pastebin, which I hadn't read beforehand.

>>18351922
Tumblr. I don't see wicca as legit. Go with typical occult type stuff or reconstructionist paganism imo

>>18350846
What introductory texts on the Qliphoth can you recommend?

>>18355495
>Tumblr. I don't see wicca as legit. Go with typical occult type stuff or
Wicca is technically one of the re-constructionist pagan schools, but I agree with you, its wandered too far from its course.

>>18355442
>/sum/ pastebin

hey thanks anon

>>18355737
I don't really think so. It was started by Gardner as a mish mash of different systems. Either way it definitely has wandered too far, if it was not always too far.

Considering the wandering of wicca, is eclectic the way to go?

>>18355752
I see your point, but since its "attempting" to "recreate" western "pagan" practices, its technically of that school, even if it was a total clusterfuck from the start.

>>18355756
"eclectic" is the polite way of saying that you fucking hate being restricted in your magical practice. "eclectic" and "chaote" are half a breath away from one another.

>>18355784
>hate being restricted in your magical practice.

So basically anyone who says fuck you to wicca and stuffy old fashioned paganism?

>>18355802
in practicality thats been my experience, yes.

In theory though it's supposed to mean "I do not limit my knowledge and practice to one magical school, and incorporate multiple techniques"

>>18354876
Thank you for taking the time to write all of that. The reason why I asked initially is because I've already spent a great deal of time studying various religions and spiritual systems, and something has been pulling at me to learn about ATRs. I have a few books on my shelf right now, one about the Dinka, one about the Azande, that Curious Lore of Precious Stones. I've read about the African slave trade though not enough, yet. Thank you for all the suggestions, I will take them to heart.

>>18355802
>>18355833
I'm eclectic, and im a combo of both.
It makes getting info from places like tumblr both a blessing and a curse.
I have lots to pick through, but the nature of following multiple schools and culture is a breeding ground of "MUH APPROPRIATION"

>>18350905
https://youtu.be/bTvU3BELZEo

What did you used to practice, and what do you practice now?

>>18355858
>"MUH APPROPRIATION"
I'm so fucking tired of this exhausting argument and I feel your misery.

Here's my take on the thing if you're interested, if not, just ignore the rest of the post.

First of all appropriation in its modern context is used incorrectly, if you look it up, it means the exact fucking opposite of how it is used in this context.
Second, there is a difference between appropriation and appreciation. That difference comes in study, earnest interest, care, and respect.
Third, the argument that "appropriation" is bad, is fucking stupid. People forget shit. All the time, it is the natural tendency for information to die. Traditions die, languages die, cultures die, practices die, magic fucking dies. The reason this happens is because people forget about it. If you limit the number of people who are allowed to know, remember, or practice something, you are actively participating in its destruction.
Fourth, I happen to be in a position where I am around a great number of people from all different cultures and backgrounds, practicing all sorts of shit. Ive met korean wiccans, Ive met Mediterraneans practicing western witchcraft, Ive met Native Americans practicing greek paganism, Ive met whites who practice voodoo, Ive met hispanics that practice hinduism, and Ive met black asatru practitioners.

All of these people were very earnest, knew the backgrounds of their craft, and their interest, taught me things and were happy to teach me things. This is what keeps traditions alive, people healthy, and culture thriving.

Practice whatever the fuck resonates with you, all magic is human.

/rant

>>18355921
I love you, my friend.

Literally the only shit i wont touch are tribe/culture specific things that have been stated to not be for outsiders.

>>18355935
even those I will at least study and understand if possible.

The only thing I personally don't touch is titles or culturally granted positions. You are not "a shaman" if you've studied shamanism, any more than you are "a priest" if you've read the bible. If that culture accepts you and grants you the title, you've every right to use it, if not, tough, figure it out.

>>18355869
chaos magic with my practices rooted mostly in gnosticism, hermeticism and christian mysticism

well now I'm just reading stuff and working on being able to easily reach and maintain trance states again because without that you can't do much if anything at all, really

>>18356158
My advice is to go reread what ever worked for you before. Whatever got you initiated the first time will probably still be waiting.

>>18355921

You Sir, are a gentleman and a scholar, regardless of gender.

>>18354602
not the anon.you are doing sweet things. thank you.

does working with solomons goetia requires belief to yhwe?

I'm reading Practical Sigil Magic by Frater UD, and I'm confused by something.

Does his sigil magic actually work with the paranormal? It's not clear about it, he says a lot of times that sigils work by transforming your wish into an image, only for it to be absorbed by your subconscious. It sounds like sigils are simply for internalizing wishes.

>>18356668
According to the Illustrated Goetia recommended further up, NOPES.

I think I'm going to try and come up with a list mixing impersonal/cosmic and strictly egoic stuff to substitute all the yahweite drapery as previous groundwork for eventual goetic practice.

>>18356780
>actually work with the paranormal

Whatever do you mean by this?

Also, friendly reminder that trying to judge from an armchair stance why, where and how a given practice unfolds its effect is an absolute exercise in futility.

It very often is still an exercise in futility even after getting hands-on with it.

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What did he mean by this?

>>18355358
The Book of the Spirits is older than these two, and in it appears many demons that can be found in the Ars Goetia. It would be very interesting to know from where this stuff comes.

>>18355375
what is the end goal of palo mayombe and santeria?

>>18357275
He means it's personal.

>>18357528
>1857
>older than Ars Goetia
who taught you how to count?

>>18354602
anon here, i posted some porn as agreement but mods deleted it. May you have a nice breakfast tomorrow instead, coffee and some doughnuts. Thanks

>>18357694
>agreement
I meant offering

Has the study/practice of the occult changed your overall morality? It seems to me that all people writing on the internet about it are either edgy sociopaths or staight buddhists. It seems to avoid plain good folk

>>18356780
You do it, it works.
You try to explain it, and there always seems to be an exception to all the rules you can come up with.

But it works. So do it already.

>>18357698
I will have a nice breakfast then!

>>18357708
It was the path I was on already anyway, but it has accelerated me along.

I've realized morality is an illusion, much like consciousness itself probably is. I can be the cruelest, coldest creature one minute, and the most loving and compassionate one the next depending on the circumstances. And I'm not talking about hate, spite or bane. Especially when you quieten the ego, you realize you love the people you love, and then there's the rest of the universe. And all of it is nothing else than pieces of the same neutral system. The only meaning it all has is the meaning you give it given a certain context.

There are no victims, once the curtain drops, we are one and the same.

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Thanks for making the thread palo, I've always loved these ever since they started in like 2011 2012 or some shit. It'll be a sad day once they finally go
Pic related
O L D M E M E S

>>18357833
Yeah, I wish I had more time to actually spend on these.

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I found a few mentions of it throughout the Yorke Microfilms (which are amazing), But could someone please guide me in the right direction of information on astral remnants
Thanks

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>>18357536
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
At least thats how it works for me.
Cant vouch for anyone else.

Honestly though, theres no "goal" that I know of.
Its not a contest.

What's a good intro into Alchemy? Specifically, I only care about the spiritual side of it.

>>18357708

Not really.

What it did is completely nuke whatever shreds of respect for metaphysics I had.

I try to do what I think is good, and live and let live, but I definitely think there are tons of people we'd all be better off without.

>>18357769

>There are no victims, once the curtain drops, we are one and the same.

Bullshit of the highest caliber.

If you go and kick some dude in the back for fun, there you have a victim - and you'd deserve to be made a victim in the exact same degree, hopefully by the same one you screwed.

"once the curtain drops" matters jack shit square when you're being abused for fun here and now.

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any kabalah mofuckas got any sauce on this. just a fake shit or some shit

>>18358425
Fake or not fake, whats the big deal? Some dudes did some shit, who the fuck are they?

Also fuck Kabalah.

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>>18358434
Na not saying it matters just like what is it from like why did it happen aha just curious chill lil brobro

well this seem like the best place to ask this. Whats so bad about doing saturn invocations?
I hear alot of people don't like doing them for obvious reasons but is it really as bad as people say?

>>18358643
>saturn invocations?
lmao have fun fucking your life up

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>>18355234
Hi Thoth.

I saw a thread a few days ago that you were in and you recommended a bunch of reading. I began studying into the occult in Octobter and nothing resonated within me as much as the Corpus Hermeticum did. Shit was so cash. I felt almost reborn. Thank you for the recommendation.

Hi friends. I just read the Principia Discordia (nothing major, I know) and am looking for ideas of what to read next. This has been my first 'full' text reading of an occult topic and I reckon I'm willing to continue down the realm of Chaos Magick in the meantime although other suggestions are appreciated as well. Preferably shorter texts, if possible.

>>18358445

I hadn't previously entertained the notion of that movie being about a thalidomide child...

Hey guys, just curious. Are they are any guides to really brainwash someone to your liking?

>>18359086
No.

>>18359086
Sure there are.

Is it useful to stop practicing after years to try and build up a normal reactive basis of being to then study the psychology of it and then compare them to previous states of mind conditioned(or deconditioned depending on your ideas here) through your former practices?
Do note this takes months or up to a year to actually achieve a significant difference.

>>18359181

I'm talking out of my arse as usual, but what you described does sound like it could be useful, if done properly, attentively, and probably taking notes of it.

Different spiritual regimes, in succession, in all likelihood grant a deeper understanding and perspective than the same time of those spiritual regimes taken separately and summed up abstractly.

>>18355397

Not pressuring you, but I'm still really really curious as to what can you come up with for this

>>18357681
>1857
I'm talking about the french book from the 15th century released much before the pseudomarchia daemonum

https://www.grimoire.org/grimoire/book-of-spirits

>>18358910
Read part I of Liber ABA

>>18359623
>>18357528
>older than these two

Im going to be gentle and remind you that ATR stands for "African Traditional Religions". Given human history, if you want to claim anything is older than the earliest beliefs and superstitions on earth, you kind of need to support that.

The Book of Spirits is older than most of the diaspora certainly. It's actually contemporaneous with the first discovery of haiti (by European powers).

Im still going with "the french connection" for how goetic seals made their way into haitian magical traditions and then on to the rest of the diaspora.

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>>18358910

Anything in the library >>18350846
under Chaos Magick by Phil Hine, Peter Carroll, or Frater UD, if you just want articles, simply go for the smaller archives, there are several files in the 5-10 pages and 40-70 pages range.

Condensed Chaos is probably to your taste, and PsyberMagick is actually pretty funny, which is a virtue in itself.

>>18360049
I never claimed that book to be the source or anthing like that. I was just following the conversation on how really old are the goetic spirits and how they can be found in older books like this one.

>>18360105
oh no no, I follow I know that, I was stating it because a lot of people are not aware of the difference between ATR and the diaspora.

One is old beyond all record and possibly pre-human, the other probably started spinning up around the late 15th early 16th century and didnt really root in place until the 18th century, or even the 20th century if you take the rest of the diaspora into consideration.

I followed what you were saying, I just wanted to clarify for people reading the conversation.

Its very interesting to look into the provenance of these symbols and wonder how they got where they are.

The term gets overused here, but this is an interesting study into memetic propagation.

>>18359782
Where is that under? Saw a bunch of Libers but not that one.

>>18360074
Picked up Condensed Chaos. Thanks.

whats ya take on quareia?
any good?

>>18360122

The thing here would be locating the earliest depictions, mentions, and (this would be the best) artifacts in which the corresponding symbols appear in the context of african diaspora practices.

It'd still be suboptimal, but we can't *know* what practices were actually performed, so we have to settle for second, third or fourth best.

>>18359547
Yikes sorry.
I pretty much came home from work, completely forgot and watched a movie, ate, went to bed early.
I didnt mean to leave you hanging.
Im taking a look right now.

>>18360150
not free while not bringing anything new
shit

>>18360337
>quareia
It's free?

>>18355328
>>18355328
thank you, it feels right!

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>>18360325
>>18360304
Ok Nox, here are my two cents.
You can add or remove salt as needed.

First, Ill be the first to admit I am not the end all be all of knowledge of Haitian Vodou.
They have houses, and Lwa, and Paths and SubPaths.
I deal with enough flow charts at work.
I dont wanna deal with flowcharts in my outside of work.
So, how I usually say "I could be wrong" or "This is my experience" -that will DEFINITELY be a factor here because we are dealing with what youve described as being a veve of an Lwa.
Nkisi, Orisha, Eggungun - those I can do.
Lwa Im a liiiittle bit shakey on, just because of all the different subpaths.

The first one looks similar to the symbols for: Zarabanda in Palo, one of the many for Baron Samedi in Vodou, one for Sim'bi in Vodou.
There are a lot of spirits that use crosses and x's in the diaspora. And really, the dont stand for christian crosses. They actually stand for the cardinal directions. North, South, East, and West.
Now, in Palo Mayombe the technically correct term fkr a Veve is a Firma. A Firma can be drawn to not only invoke or evoke the Nkisi, but also to direct the spirits on a specific task you need help with, or need them to do for you.
(When I say help with a task I mean you are actively doing a task, and you just need a little boost. I differentiate that from something you cant do that you need the spirit to do for you.)
Every stroke in drawing a Firma is meticulously planned and executed. This because even drawing the sigilis is broadcasting to the universe that you are phoning home and you expect someone to answer.
Even the materials you use to draw the Firma are symbols of the intent of your request or the task you need completed.
Its a very big thing to draw an original Firma request to a Nkisi spirit in Palo.
Its very different from western sigil magick, even though it seems like it would be very similar.
Continued....

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I've just watched The Wailing. I was surprised by how nicely rituals were portrayed despite being theatrical.

Also the ghosts and the demon. I liked it. Plus it's called The Wailing.

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>>18360443
Now, in Palo the type of horizontal or vetical line you draw can have a meaning. Also, what you use to mark the end points has a meaning. anything int the perimeter or running across the lines has a meaning.
The first symbol uses these elements:
Cross, line with circles on both ends, arrow, waxing moon, waning moon, water, and another symbol that I cant quite place. Ive seen it before, and Im trying to look it up now. It looks like another moon phase, but doesnt make sense with the other lunar cycle glyphs and the way they are formatted in this picture.
A line with circles at both ends usually represent the border between the physical world and the world of the spirit. So, obviously something is being done that is going to have something to do with that border zone. Next you have an arrow crossing that border. The point of the arrow is going down. Normally, if this line was another line with two circles we would know the symbol is talking about the connection and interractions of the two worlds on each other. But, instead, we see an arrow point down. So, this could mean that we are indicating primarily something taking place in the spirit world, or something being sent to the spirit world.
Im a little confused by the right side moon and the left side cross. But, something tells me this is describing a full cycle of the moon.
The cycle would be read widdershins, or counter clockwise, around the crossed lines.
Water, again in many cultures, is symbolic of spiritual forces. Its very mysterious, and can be deep and dark. In the diaspora 2 of the feminine goddesses are associated with water (Madre Agua/Yemaya and Mama Chola/Oshun). In European cultures, the goddess is usually connected symbolically with the moon.
So, we have alot of symbolism here about feminine water/moon spiritual energies, and descending into the underworld.
Did they list this symbol as having anything to do with Mamiwada or Yemaya? She might also be called Le Sirene.
Continued...

>>18360443
>>18360304
>>18360325
Hey Palo and nox, found somethign interesting, that in my opinion is pretty telling:
http://jwmt.org/v1n10/modern.html
(scroll down until you see the veve and goetic seals)

My first observation is that the veve on this page are NOT common veve for the lwa they are supposed to represent. I draw veve for Legba and Freda regularly and neither of these look like the common ones I am familiar with.

I think I know what has happened.

In order to understand this you need to understand a bit about how vodou functions.

Even more than other diaspora traditions, vodou is very non-dogmatic. The practices of any given house will be different than the house down the street, almost invariably. They will have slightly different veve, slightly different days of worship, or different acceptable offerings, even to the same spirits.

This is because the practices of that house are dictated and guided by the spirits, via the mambo or houngan of the house. Let's say house X and house Y both started out with the same symbol and the same offerings to the same deity...
If Mambo X has a dream in which the veve they are using changes, she will change it for their house. If Houngan Y divines that the proper offering should be candy instead of chicken, he will change it. This ends up in two different houses with slightly different practices and symbolism.

This is not only considered 'ok' it is considered vital and natural. The spirits work with each of us in different ways, and houses have different practices for reasons that only the spirits know, and that's fine. Naturally depending on the mambo or houngan's personal experience with magic and the occult, the flavor will change.
(cont...)

>>18360541

At some point, its not unlikely whatsoever that a mambo or houngan upon working with goetic scholars, or texts (probably from france) 'absorbed' or adapted some seals that they liked. Theyre not IDENTICAL to goetic seals but close enough that there was clearly an influence.

Borrowing, cribbing, and remixing stuff from other traditions is a vital and central theme of the diaspora in general, and specifically of hoodoo/vodou/voodoo. Why this happens is a subject for another time, but I am now about 99% positive, that this is what occurred because the symbols are just close enough to show influence, but not close enough to show direct connection.

Some mambo somewhere liked the look of Gomoris seal enough that they stole it for their houses Freda and it became tradition within that specific house.

>>18360443
>hey have houses, and Lwa, and Paths and SubPaths.
>I deal with enough flow charts at work.
>I dont wanna deal with flowcharts in my outside of work.

Het Palo, since you've always been so informative, I thought Id clear this up a little for you since I know that the various vodou and voodoo teachings tend to be more variable and disorganized compared to the palo practices.

I mentioned above about the fact that different houses have different practices, but I can put this in terms that a palo practitioner will instantly understand.

So let's say Ive got a magic tree. If I snap a limb off of that tree, each limb still contains the ashe or life energy or magic of the original tree. If I give one stick to person A and one stick to person B they are now both in posession of that trees ashe.

Person 1 ties a red ribbon around their stick, puts some bells on it and names it "george" person B attaches beadwork a handle on the side and a long ribbon on top and names it "martha".

Let's say person one breaks "george" in half and gives half to a student who adds a small bone to one end, and then calls this stick "boney george"

All three of these sticks have the same fundamental ashe, they came from the same source and carry fundamentally similar energies, but through spirit communication, each has adopted a slightly different personality and practice around it.

This is the difference between the houses, the lwa and the various paths.

The reason this all works is because very very few people attempt to follow, or understand ALL the paths, that would be impossible. You practice your path, your houses path and the traditions you've been taught.

It's only us scholars who run into issues attempting to unravel an endless knot that was never meant to be untangled, or for whom these 'contradictions' bother us.

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>>18360536
There are some male Lwa that are connected with water but normally in a different capacity.
Agwe, for example, pilots the boat that carries the souls of the dead to the uderworld. But he is more like a Pirate.
Mamiwada is often depicted as a mermaid who drags men into the water and drowns them. (Or, who drags men kicking and screaming into the underworld.)
The fact that she is connected to submerging things into the spirit realm is what makes me think this symbol would be connected to her specifically.
You could say that of the 2 water godesses, Madre Agua represents the spiritual side of water. Mama Chole represents the physical side of water that deals more in emotions like love.

The second symbol also shows things descending into the underworld. But, it doesnt have the same sort of feminine mysticism. it looks like a veve of the Marassa twins. They are liminal dieties and serve as messengers between the physical world and the spiritual world. I dont know alot about them. They are hermaphrodites, for lack of a better term. There are two diamonds in this image, which symbolize wisdom.

Thats all I got for now.
Ill think on it some more tonight.

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>>18360563
>> Boney George
Love it!
Makes sense.

what level do you have to be before you can cast spells?

>>18360629
it should! The metaphor actually comes from a palero who explained it to me!

all these different paths are fundamentally the same spirit (as they are still from the same dource, like the sticks), but they will have slightly different personalities, practices or purposes. With so many people practicing, and the spirits working with each of us on an individual level, there's no point figuring out what EVERYONES spirits are doing as it's not relevant to your own tradition or spirits, even if theyre the same one!

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Listening to a podcast about Jack Parsons. Did he write anything worth reading?

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Very much obliged, Palo and anon. Thank you.

You'll forgive me for ignoring proper spellings for stuff, right?

>>18360443
>importance, gravity, precision and repercussions of Firmas and their characteristics
Very interesting and very cool.

>>18355336
The first one is indeed attributed to Baron Samedi in my reference book.

>>18360536
>Meaning of line shapes, intersections, endings, et al:
Wow, that sounds really tight and thorough. I won't forget about that.

Looking at goetic and other western stuff - they LOOK like they SHOULD be like that, or they were but we no longer know, or sometimes it is but doesn't go beyond a personal level.

Astrological and alchemical symbols look somewhat more meaningful... but they represent comparatively older and simpler/more coherent concepts. Graphical stylings feel like they've inherited the style from these and maybe a couple more sources / elaborated upon.

>>18360541
>Non-dogmatism and inherent plasticity/willingness to change of vodou
This is very pleasing to hear and very intuitively feels like a good idea

I'm glad to hear that there are people in the world that BOTH belong to a tradition and DON'T have a broom up their arseholes.

>>18360547
>Why this happens
I'm going out on a limb here and please excuse the crudeness:

If I was a slave or colonized <witch/priest/wizard/medium> thrown in a medley of my own, related, unrelated and hostile cultural elements; I sure wouldn't take shit from nobody telling me any version of "don't take this spiritual tool because it's unorthodox" if I was convinced it would give me or my own any sort of advanatage (or wreak havoc on my masters!)

>>18360563
I know this isn't directed specifically at me, but still:

The theory I can''t see that clearly, but the acts themselves make perfect sense.
And I don't care much for one magical theory over another.

>>18360633
√-1°

>>18360845
> intuitively feels like a good idea
There's a reason the african diaspora refuses to die despite horrific conditions.

>if I was convinced it would give me or my own any sort of advanatage (or wreak havoc on my masters!)

THIS understanding is why some people consider vodou to be proprietary and not for outsiders.

To be fair, a modern, middle or upper class person, who has never struggled for food, for freedom, for basic safety, who has never truly been oppressed or trod upon, who has never had to suffer some of these indignities... is going to have an extremely difficult time understanding the importance and power of these beliefs and techniques, but you (I presume some things about you here, please forgive my assumption if I am incorrect) are evidence that this is not always the case, and as time and culture progresses, and people are waking up to one another... it's becoming more common.

This is why I always always advocate a cultural understanding of the people from whom you are borrowing or learning magical technique, it's vital to understanding the systems they've developed.

>The theory I can''t see that clearly,
Yeah that's kind of difficult to wrap your head around at first... I think the best way I can say it is that an objects significance and magical power is not tied to it's size or shape. In effect every limb of a tree IS that tree as far as magic is concerned. Even if they are named differently and decorated differently. This continues to be the case until that tree limb is ground down into the finest specks of powder which all contain that same magical essence. This is a fundamental principle in ATR and the diaspora.
Physical matter can be separated, reduced, destroyed, and lost. Magical essence multiples infinitely, and without regard to size or component.

If you have an elm piece then... in effect, you've got the energy of every elm that has ever existed, and ever will exist, even if its the size of a dime.

>>18360882
(...continued)

And no matter how you decorate, name, or use your piece of that elm, it's both the same, and different, from every other piece of elm in the world. Your tradition has it used in a certain way, named a certain way, revered in a certain way... but even if your methods diverge from anothers, neither of you is wrong on the fundamental essence of the thing.

I cant really explain it much better than that.

>>18360882
>who has never had to suffer some of these indignities... is going to have an extremely difficult time understanding the importance and power of these beliefs and techniques

Indeed. It also makes perfect sense to make it proprietary.

>I presume some things about you here
And you are in all likelihood 80% right overall

>theory
It makes sense... but what if it is lost, forgotten about, destroyed in a disaster, or spent until there is nothing more? As in, materially spent. Or taken by your enemy and desecrated, even worse: repurposed to something mocking of your tradition or offensive to the spirit in particular, or as an hostile backdoor to the original practitioners.

I guess repurposing in good faith would be a bit of a crapshoot but at least possible in principle

>>18360833
Apep: chaos & duality
nice dubs

>>18360909
0909

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>>18360909
danke shane
That he managed to fit that much weirdness into just 37 years makes me feel like I'm wasting my life.

>>18360905
>what if it is lost
spirit can't be lost, you may not know where it is, but it's just fine on its own.

>forgotten about
ditto

>destroyed in a disaster
the spirit itself doesnt fundamentally change. If you lose a finger, you are still you. If a tree loses a limb, it is still a tree. Its impossible to destroy the entire spirit.

>spent until there is nothing more?
You cannot expend the entirety of a spirit, it does not operate under those laws of entropy.

> As in, materially spent
the material composition does not effect the spirit, unless it is to multiply it into smaller equally powerful pieces. It's material size and shape is irrelevant.

>Or taken by your enemy and desecrated
>or repurposed
This may be a bit of a problem, but fundamentally again, the spirit only changes gradually. Its like sigil magic... every time that sigil is redrawn and charged, it only increases its presence and power. If one person defiles that sigil it doesnt change the sigil, if a million people defile that sigil and fundamentally altar its meaning, THAT is a problem. But in general that doesnt happen, it only creates secondary forces.

>>18360960


Hmmm. Right right.

Thanks for answering :)

I'm going to pose a more specific question:

If (hypothetically) thunder strikes, the temple catches fire, and Boney George can't even be recognized when picking through the rubble, what happened to Boney George?

Is Boney George trying to escape your grasp in the confusion of the disaster, or what?

>>18360992
Boney George is still around, the fact that his icon on earth, of a stick with a bone on it is now gone, doesn't destroy the spirit.

Call this quantum chaote magic stuff, call it the immortality of spirit, call it the principle of mentalism, whatever you want.

The best way I can do this is to compare it to software... if you delete the shortcut to an exe, the exe doesnt cease existing, if you make 1000 shortcuts and name them all different things with different icons, they all go back to the same .exe, none of them are diminished, and the .exe is not diminished either.

Only in this hypothetical metaphor, the hard drive is infinite and no .exe can ever be deleted. It could be duplicated, or potentially have its code changed, or both, but the actual program can never be removed.

>>18361027

That's why I was advancing the "escaping your grasp" idea: he's still around, you just can't pick it up anymore.

>>18361033
exactly, the stick that represents him is not him, its an extension of him, the same way your finger is an extension of, but not the totality of you. Indeed, the way your BODY is an extension of you, but not the totality of you. Just as we are all extensions of the one thing without end.

All it would take to access boney george again would be another shortcut. Make another stick, say an invocation, hell just remember him...

This ties into the akashic record concept... every god or spirit, every thought, every emotion, every object, everything that's ever existed, ever will exist, ever could exist is sort of hanging around in the record, waiting to be accessed, even boney george.

Even in our half-joking metaphor here we are begining to birth something called "boney-george" it's not a strong thought-form, it's not even a sigil, but the fact that it now exists by virtue of being spoken (or typed) into existence gives it at least some spiritual weight. We even have a rough idea of what one of it's icons is, and maybe one of its purposes... this is how all gods all magic and all everything is born.

>>18357275
Apologetic response to a question that cannot be answered.

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New, curious, and want a no frills grounding in the processes/theory used by active practitioners. Any of you fine folks that could point an anon in the right direction? Suggested must-reads would be appreciated.

Thought this would be the best place to ask this rather then making my own thread.

Does anyone know of an entity etc. that has some sort of association with briar roses, chained black dogs (perhaps rottweilers) and ravens/crows. Wears black and has an elongated pale sickly green face.

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What are some simple spells I can perform?

Looking for a good book to help me get started with chakras, energy work, and auras.

>>18361107
briar roses arent a thing, its the name of a fairy tale among other things.

The dogs and ravens has too many correspodences to guess.

Dunno about the sickly green face

>>18355053

Woke mason here. Most don't delve into the esoteric but a lot more do than you might think.

>>18361129
>briar roses arent a thing, its the name of a fairy tale among other things.
It's a thing, climbing roses exist. It was the first common name I could think of without getting too specific. Technically Rosa rubiginosa is a briar rose, except not the fairy tale one.

Regardless it's the imagery that is more significant here then the existence.

>>18361049
If this thread is still around tomorrow, I am going to send you a gift Anon.
I like to make things.
I hope you will like it.

>>18361159
>Rosa rubiginosa
thats sweetbriar not briar rose.

but either way the imagery isnt familiar with any forms I know.

I really am inclined to say that the imagery is in tune with hekate... the dogs, roses, ravens, a lot of that fits, but the green face is kind of throwing it off, I dont know. Perhaps its the crone aspect of hekate?

>>18361215
If it's a sigil for boney george, let's make sure we actually want to birth that as a concept, considering we've publicly given it a proper noun for a name it's halfway to a servitor already and with public awareness could explode into something larger quickly.

Thanks OP

does satan prefer to be called him, her, or it? I never can tell.

Are there any good beginners guides for scrying? preferably using a bowl or mirror

>>18361952
check /div/'s guides, theyre the ones to talk to about divinatory practice.

Is there any documented use of unicursal hexagram before Golden Down?

>>18350846
If some one from omg discord woukd like to share info with the div discord there is a few who woukd luje the invite

>>18361952
http://hermetic.com/achad/crystal/crystal-vision.htm

I bet it is in the mega too.

>>18361097
See this post:

>>18360074

Otherwise, anything in the beginner folder that catches your fancy.

Also, don't forget to pay attention to anything that reaches you by chance.

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>>18361279
:(
You see right through me.
I want to just speculate for a moment. A kind of creative exercise. It doesnt have to go anywhere from here. Ive just noticed some fortuitous synchronicities that I want to point out. I dont know if they were puposely done, or not.
Well first we have to figure what Boney George is.
He was born on a Wednesday, which is appropriate because Wednesday is ruled by Ochosi/Watariamba . This spirit is the divine hunter, and is called upon when justice is needed in any situation. He also rules over animals, and defensive magick. He is very intelligent and a skilled marksman whose arrows never miss. His colors are blue and yellow. His numbers are 3 and 7. He prefers to eat fruits and liqueurs, and his offerings are left in the wilderness. He will also accept animal sacrifices.
Watariabe is the third child of Tiabla Tierra and Madre Agua. He is the younger brother of Zarabando. After Zarabando fled into the wilderness, Watariabe is one of only two spirits he has allowed to visit him. They frequently hunt together. Zarabando uses his machete to clear the brush, allowing Watariabe a clear view to take a shot with his bow and arrows.
Unlike other diaspora spirits, there is only one path of Watariamba.
A solitary arrow represents defense and protection. It can also be a symbol of movement.
Is Boney George a representation of one of the arrows of Watariamba?
Pic related - one kind of primitive arrow with a bone arrowhead.

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>>18358910
>>18361097

...Other entertaining shit I forgot to mention:

The recent internet-original manual "The Psychonaut's Field Guide" by Archtraitor Bluefluke presents a system of discordian/chaos magic through snazzy pictures.

Alan Moore's Promethea comicbooks also come with several lessons on western occultism built in: tree of life, tarot, astrological and grecorroman gods symbology, god formation, magical correspondences and recent historical figures of western occultism.

>>18362401
I'd like to voice that Watariamba sounds like a good deity to have on your side and find him personally appealing due to some of the correspondences/domains/attributes you listed.

This represents a VERY positive reaction coming from me, very few deities have my sympathy.

A named arrow in the quiver of a divine archer must by definition act as a subordinate spirit, maybe with a particular utility or intended against a specific type of target.

>primitive arrow
I don't know about you, but I sure don't know how to make such high-tech arrows >:O

..please don't read this as any sort of hostility, I just mean to reflect on how easy it comes to adopt third-hand evaluations that have NO legs to stand on when you make them face personal, actual fact :)

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>>18362354
>>18360074

Much obliged..

>>18361272
Looked hekate up, doesn't seem to match as it was definitely a male figure. The face might not be accurately described as it was the most vague part.

It was a dream I had where these images and figures occurred and I had interactions/conversation with. I was just curious if it rang a bell to anyone or if it was just my crazy subconscious mind making imagery.

Thanks anyhow.

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>>18362490
Nox, no offense taken.
I cant archery either.

>child of Zarabando
>chance to shoot a bow and arrow around 10 years old
>Fuck yeah
>Robin Hood
>Check this out

Guess how this ended?

>>18362617

Not really following you, except for Imperial Stormtrooper Markmanship lol, so tell us.

I have horrible aim too, but I REALLY enjoy archery; it's one of the very few sports I actually like, at least I know how to grab and draw a bow and will pick it up again sometime in the future (when I can get a license, a bow and go somewhere I can actually shoot it without getting in trouble)

>>18362566
You're very welcome

>>18362617
oh and thanks for the handle upgrade ;)

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>>18362629
Well, cant nock an arrow for shit.
Cant hit the arrow rest.
How the fuck to grip the bow?
Pull back, arrow slips right off.
Cant aim for shit, cant even catch a thrown object in real life. Cant even properly high five, I literaly will miss someones hand by an inch.
Painfully self aware, with 0 hand eye coordination.
Arrow goes maybe a foot from me, and hits the ground.

Im better at designing things, or making things.
If I can imagine something, its like I can 3D rotate it my mind, and draw how to make it.
And when Im angry, Im more likely to pick something up and beat someone with it, instead of throwing it at them.
If I throw something, its with the intent to break it.
Because Im sure as hell going to miss you if I throw it at you.
But, I think my throwing and beating days are over.
Now, I just design and make things.

>>18362656

If it makes you feel better, I can't team sports OR dance :___D

So even if in different fields I can totally feel your feelings of inadequacy.

When I attended archery classes, the bows had this modern thingy of a mechanical sight, and I didn't know what the fuck to do with it. Why the hell is it going to point where the arrow is supposed to land? I'm aware all shooting weapons have different sorts of sights, but since I couldn't grok it I couldn't do it.

So I asked the instructor if I could remove it, and he allowed it, but halfway through the course when I was starting to grasp how to aim without it (by the way the arrow, your arm and the bow all "fall together in place") the instructor had me put it on back again.

The instructor said it's entirely legit to tell the sight to GTFO, but that you need a lot of time and a fuckton of arrows to learn how to "shoot instinctively", and we didn't have either.

>>18362670
In my defense I have to add I one out of maybe two pupils who NEVER whip-lashed their own wrist with the string.

Which came in handy, because the instructor chastised me on the first day for having a tattoo on the probably-to-be-lashed wrist...

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Today is Thursday, which is ruled by Siete Rayos the god of lightning.
He is the son of Brazo Fuerte, the volcano.
When thunder is heard, it is the sound of Siete Rayos galloping on his white horse.
He wields a powerful axe in battle, and his colors are red and white.
He is the sworn enemy of Zarabando, after he stole Zarabandas wife Centella.
He never accepts rum or tobacco, but can be pursuaded to drink a little red wine.
He symbolizes power, fire, and virility.
The skull and horns of a ram are often used in his rituals.
He is related to the Yoruba Orisha Shango in Santeria. Anyone who knows nothing about ATR or the diaspora has heard of the name Shango.
He is similar to Zeus, and shares the trait of being a rampant womanizer.
His number is 6, and in Santeria he is synchretized with Saint Barbara.
It is rumored that Adolfo Costanza, the leader of the Matamoros Cult Killers, was a child of Siete Rayos.

Guys last night I dreamt Archangel Uriel hugged me. She had pretty comfy breasts and it felt really safe and motherly.

I've never really worked with this archangel.

What do?

>>18362656

It's kept nagging me... does this particular inability carry any further negative connotations? Maybe it did and flew over my head...

You said child of Zarabando, but the archer was the other guy... Watariamba? Watariabe? If Watariamba is one of the few people Zarabando wants to hang out with, and they get together to hunt, and when they do it's Watariabe who shoots; I'd say Zarabando relies on other skills to be a badass wilderness guy.

If you have something to do with Zarabando, rather than feel bad about not being able to shoot; maybe you could think that when the time really comes, there should be some Watariabe person around to do the shooting for you, you'd just have not to miss out and let them in if they're just.

My apologies if I went from not reading into something to then suddenly reading too much into it.

Also 100% talking out of my arse as usual

>>18362772
merely a dream
but you try evocation

>>18362401
>>18362490
>>18362617
Hey Palo and Nox!

Does Ochosi have a syncretic deity in vodou/voodoo? It reminds me a bit of Loko but its not quite the same and clearly Zarabando is syncretic with ogoun/ogun no?

If we're now titling Boney George with "The Arrow of Ochosi" we've already started birthing him...

what's the plan?

>>18363265

I have no friggin' idea anon, it's Palo and other anon who know about this shit, I just say whatever I want (o:

>>18363423
I am 'other anon' I guess I might as well trip since it seems like the cool kids are doing it.

Im more familiar with the dahomean/hatian side of the diaspora, I thought Palo might have an idea about the syncretisms.

>>18363487

it's quite funny how tripfaggin' conventions vary from board to board, and sometimes between different generals in the same board

In some other boards people would be foaming at their mouths in rage bordering on aneurysm just at the amount of tripfaggin' going on in this thread.

Can someone suggest a good book on energy manipulation?

>>18363505
i trip on /div/ because Im one of the readers, I havent had a need to do it over here until now.

>>18363533

all's cool, recurrent anons are a great way to exercise guesswork

I very rarely use this trip outside of /x/ and here usually only in relation to occultism

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Question: How does Mr.Blaine do the trick when he sticks an ice pick through his hand? Is it alchemy or something.

>>18354814
>The Cave of Forgotten Dreams

That moment they said Neanderthals didn't leave any recorded symbolic representations, artistic nor ritual. It really activates your almonds...

>>18363639
Alchemy is turning lead in to gold. So it's not alchemy. It is sleight of hand. Look up the trick online. I am sure you will find a more logical explanation.

>>18363677

I'm pretty sure by this time pix by neanderthals have been found already...

>>18363639
David Baline isn't the only person who has done this. Chris Angel has done it, but also stuck it through solid objects such as a table.

The interesting thing about this is that I watched this older BBC documentary that interviewed a secluded monk who did healing with his hands using Qi. He showed how he could create heat with his hands etc. Later in the documentary he also did this exact trick, he stuck a chop stick through a table and once it was half way in, he broke it off with his hand.

Here's the link if anyone is interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F3ovb2kZ9Q

>>18355969
this was a mistake I recently made

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>>18363265
I dont know what the plan is for Boney George.
No other interest in fully birthing him.
I think hes more of a magickal tool than his own being.
I might make a Boney George wand for shits and giggles.

I dont know about Watariambas counterpart in Vodou, if he has one. I know in Santeria he is associated with Saint Norbert. I also saw an image of him as Saint George slaying the dragon today.
Apparently as Saint Norbert, he protects pregnant women and women in labor.

Im just kind of neutral on Wataraimba. He seems chill, though.
Im more partial to Zarabando and Centrella.
Though, Im pretty sure Ive been in the presence of Seite Rayos and Madre Agua once, and they came down together. Which isnt surprising, if you know any of the stories from Ifa on the creation, and the interplay between the spirits and their relationships with each other.

Seite Rayos dance party in Cuba.
Either this dancer is a great actor, or he is being ridden by Seita Rayos for at least part of this performance. I can tell by his mannerism at the start that he is at bare minimum trying his best to call him to come down.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7rRqbFZGDM8

This library is amazing. I hope at least some of you have a soft copy of all of this outside the library, it would be a huge loss if all this stuff went down because mega had an error.

>>18363910
It's not an uncommon mistake, but it's a good thing to keep in mind.

>>18363914
Well honestly at this point, he's kind of birthed.
As a tool (the arrow of Ochosi) I can see him serving in a capacity which specifically oversees magical tools. I can also see him serving in a way much like Ochosi, in guidance for desires and paths. Perhaps he's a bit better at finding a path, rather than guiding on the path like Ochosi. We're definitely inside Ochosis territory there, and it makes sense that he's a subordinate spirit.

Very interesting, and if you want to make his wand, remember it's got a red ribbon tied around it, bells, and a small bone on one end.

>>18361279
Yes. Let's do it!

>>18363505
I am raging. I just don't say anything.

Using trips like this should be against the rules.

>>18364844
dubs confirm, and it's already done, he's got a name, a sphere of influence, a background and even a ritual tool... nature will take it's course now

>>18364861
while normally I agree, if thees an ongoing conversation over a number of days (as there is in /omg/ or /div/ and people need to identify their posts just for internal consistency, a name is a good idea. Trip is a natural evolution since having a name stolen only derails the conversation worse.

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>>18350846
If Secret Societies are secret than how do people know about them and join them?

>>18364861

well your capacity for self-restraint is then indeed commendable.

Why is it so offensive?

>>18365122
I would tell you, but its a secret.

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Hey guys, I've been reading through 973-eht-namuh-973.com and I barely understand any of it.
I figure I'd ask here instead of starting a new thread or asking faggy reddit.
I read through the evocation and looked through some of the math/gematria and it almost seems pointless except for when things add to 9.
Has anyone cracked the code so to speak, or is the meaning something that each needs to find individually?

>>18365546
Which parts of the site are you reading? If you're going through the index of indices then everything should be more or less well cited.

>>18365549
>>18365546
http://973-eht-namuh-973.com/coloured%20site/start/evokation/indices.htm

>>18365122
There are no secret societies, just societies with secrets.

>>18365552
>>18365549
>>18365546
There's also a forum:
http://973-eht-namuh-973.com/forum/

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>>18365549
>>18365552
Like I said I just started reading it. I got through the evocation and the gematria, and I skimmed the first button part 1 which is a lot of new testament which I've already read.

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>>18365567

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>>18365573
This guy does place emphasis on language and writing being a magical way to communicate.

http://973-eht-namuh-973.com/coloured%20site/first%20button/1.htm

>973-eht-namuh-973.com
what the fuck is this shit

>>18365587
>8 Who can write the Psalms of the Lord, or who read them? 9 Or who can train his soul for life that his soul may be saved, 10 Or who can rest on the Most High, so that with His mouth he may speak? 11 Who is able to interpret the wonders of the Lord? 12 For he who could interpret would be dissolved and would become that which is interpreted. 13 For it suffices to know and to rest: for in rest the singers stand, 14 Like a river which has an abundant fountain, and flows to the help of them that seek it. Hallelujah.

~Songs of Solomon, Ch 26

>>18365598
And old artfag and mystic having a giggle at your expense.

This thing is older than dogshit too, in terms of internet years.

>>18365587
>>18365573
>>18365567
>>18365561
>>18365552

This shit makes the Azoetia look like a technical manual.

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>>18365598
How the brain develops language centers:
http://brainworldmagazine.com/the-magic-of-human-language/

Language and story telling importance to humans:
http://creativewritingguild.com/lesson/srs/write-brained-p2-origin-of-language-need-for-stories/

I was trying to find some articles on language and mysticism for you too, but Im having to dig even though I know the research exists. Eventually Id find something but not right this moment.

Figure I should post in this thread. I feel like I've stumbled back into magick by accident (I read a bit about it like 4 - 5 years ago when I was in my acid phase), basically.

>Be 70k in debt because poor financial habits
>Start to learn about money, manage my shit, rational brain shit, do budgets, over 4 months get debt down to 60k
>Realize this shit is taking too long, try and find a way to make more money
>Start following the election, spend time on pol, all the gets, all the praising of kek, start to believe in meme magic
>Realize Trump is likely going to win, put a small bet on it where if I lose, it hurts, if I'm right, I'm out of debt, think about betting more money
>Go on the Donald, it's up to 250k subscribers, think ok, I'm going to win 250k from the gambling
>Want some sort of trigger to go 'all in'
>Start thinking about what I would do with the money, how I would buy dream car (R35 GTR)
>Start watching videos on youtube, feel & meditate on really intense desire
>Like an hour later, the Clinton FBI email shit breaks
>Put all the money in, apply for a personal loan to gamble coz great credit
>The next day, I think, was me watching video & the shit breaking related, no ... of course not, but what if...
>Start watching GTR videos again, the second video I watch has a piece of footage spliced in that doesn't fit, it's a cut of a metal beam with a picture of a FUCKING FROG on it
>Holy fuck what is happening, scrounge every dollar I can get to gamble
>Each day leading up to the election spend more and more time on pol, praising kek & ritualize my dream car watching
>Now here's the fucked up part, I had a variety of bets at different odds, most on Trump winning the election, and one single 5k bet on him winnning the popular vote at 4:1 odds
>If Trump won both, I'd clear 270k, but with him winning just the EC I cleared ... you guessed it, 250k
>Not sure what the fuck to think about anything anymore, is it literally just intent + action = shit just happens

>>18365851
>intent + action = shit just happens

Its more like:
1. Intent
2. Action
3. ???
4. Profit

where 3 is all the shit we dont understand about the nature of reality.

Holy shit Liber Zelotes actually unveils everything about the The Order of the G∴D∴ of the A∴A∴

http://documents.mx/embed/liber-zelotes.html

was crowley a pedophile?

>>18366433
certainly, he was also a cannibal, a muderer, a rapist, possessed, high on every kind of drug, he had seventeen venereal diseases, and he was the living embodiment of the beat spoken of in revelations who brought about the end times.

Im sure all of that is true.

>>18366371
No, no it doesn't.

>>18365851
Take your meds.

>>18366433
No. He wanted to BE the little boy.
*
I've been thinking of putting together some thoughts on the O9A from my experience through the lens of their current with some criticism and praise. Interest?

>>18366710
>O9A from my experience

Do you actually have extensive experience with the O9A?

>>18366786
>extensive experience
Define your terms.

>>18366710
How do you be the little boy? I've been trying but all I've got down is the excessive masturbation and compulsive desire to shitpost.

>>18366843
Get yourself a daddy.
>>>/r9k/
Cerebuz is always around, but he's a Turk.

>>18366855
Are there spiritual gains to be had from that? I'm torn between being the little boy and being the little boy who tears off skydaddy skin and wears it.

>>18366873
Seek professional help.

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>>18366887
^

>>18366890
>>18366887
>not stealing godskin in a moment of passion
Low energy.

is magick real or is it just larping?

>>18366989
a lot of it is larping 2bh phamalam. not all though

>>18366842
Have you actually had membership in or participated in rites from the O9A?

>>18367311
2001-2003 plus change I was associating with a nexion out of a local metropolitan area and did the quaint little self initiation myself on instruction from this girl we called Flame because red hair and something-to-prove temper/drinking habits. Myatt was the last of my edgelordy Satanism phase, but the ideas and concepts have stuck with me even as Myatt's posting new Hermetic translations.

>>18367366
good enough for me, Id be interested in your take on it.

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>>18367366
AHA!
Youre finally awake.
Welcome back.

>>18367430
I've been over on /his/.