Enlightenment

So, mysticism as I practice it, is actually a form of skepticism.

Non-mystics usually have a dogmatic mindet:
They have certain truths they believe to be actually true, a believe system they cling to.
The goal of all philosophy, religion (and for some even science) is to build up a logically consistent system
to understand the world. That's usefull, as long as it isn't mistaken for literal truth.
It's all just models.

The goal of mysticism is thus to remove all attachment to such systems, to get to the point
where you can still use them as they can be helpful, but you're aware that
they aren't true.

By removing attachments you get to the enlightened state of mind.
This state will also mean no "suffering", which should not be confused with no pain or unpleasant experiences.

Why do mystical mystics always lift sticks?

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>>18284258

can you remove my attachments for me ?

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>>18284258
You seem to have a dogmatic mindset concerning non mystics.
Almost like you have certain truths that you believe to be actually try and a belief system that you cling to.
The goal of your system is to build up a logically consistent system to help you understand the world.
Apparently this is useful to you, I just hope you don't mistake it for literal truth.
It's all just suppositions.

>>18284258

So what is attachment?
All our experience is just perception. We perceive with our 5 senses and we perceive thoughts with our minds.
Attachment means to be resistant to change of these perceptions.

We can split this into 2 kinds of attachment:

1. Attachment to thoughts and ideas, or "the truth": Picking some ideas and believe them to actually be true
Actual ultimate truth can't be grasped by ideas, so any attempt is futile and believing some ideas to be the literal truth will cause confusion

2. Attachment to sense perceptions: Believing that pleasurable states should be sustained and unpleasurable states need to be avoided.
Live will always change, everything is impermanent and clinging to pleasurable state and rejecting unpleasurable state will cause frustration.

>>18284261
I don't know lad

>>18284276
>can you remove my attachments for me ?
You'll have to do that yourself, I'm afraid

>>18284285
Of course, I'm just talking because I hope it's useful to some.
The goal of this system is not to describe the truth, it's to enable others to abandon such systems.

Stop shitposting on 4chan, OP. There's wood to be chopped and water to be carried.

>>18284288
Just knowing about this can already be useful, but getting to the non-attached mindset is of course the primary goal of mystic practice.

There have been many approaches in many different traditions.
Often these approaches are based on practices such as meditation, but I don't practice any of these.
I think there is a different approach, that may work better for many people.
Practices such as meditations have many downfalls, that can actually be obstacles in your way to enlightenment.

Attachment will vanish after you're starting to directly experience the true nature of reality beyond conceptual thinking. At that point, the futility of attachment is so obvious, that it just no longer happens.

The way this can be done is getting to the limits of conceptual thinking and then going beyond them.

>>18284329
>Stop shitposting on 4chan, OP. There's wood to be chopped and water to be carried.
Nah, I'm having a lazy as fuck sunday. The wood can wait until tomorrow.

>>18284338
Now how do we get to these limits?

One metaphor that is used is that of a fly flying around a fire:
The fly can settle down anywhere, but on the fire.

The fly is your mind and the fire is the ultimate truth about reality.
You can think of anything, but the truth.
This is the limit we must try to direct our minds at.
This can be done through paradox and double binds.

A buddhist master might tell you to stop desire, but now you're desiring not to desire. That's what I call double bind.
Often the only way to truly get out of a double bind is to get into the enlightened mind state.

The double bind I usually use is that of so called "non-duality":

First we observe that we describe in a dualistic manner:
We distinguish bewteen existing and not existing, good and bad, self and other, and other dualities.
All of this can be grasped by the mind, since the actual truth is off limits, it is beyond duality, it is non-dual.
There are no pairs of opposite in non-dual reality.
Seeing the true nature of reality means seeing the non-dual.
The double bind in this is if there are no opposites in this non-dual reality,
then non-dual and dual are also not existing opposites.

This is the most successful double bind I found until now. Of course, none of this is the literal truth.
But it's an extremely useful pointer to the truth.

>>18284382
That's already it.
Ask me anything, I'll stay for some time

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Describe what the ultimate mental representation of the macro state is, in your own words. (What's your version of the set that contains all sets?)

>>18284388
I think I've already done that in my last post. The part about duality and non-duality.
If that's not what you're asking for you'll have to word your question differently so I can give a useful answer.

what do you think about magic mushrooms, are they good for spiritual guidance? what age do you recommend using them if using them?

>>18284411
I never experimented with drugs, so I don't know anything about this. Sorry.

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>>18284397
I dig it. Dao's your version of the macro-est macro state, if I read it correctly. That place that rests in between contradictory viewpoints.

It's a pretty good one. I haven't found anything more macro than that yet. I used to think that the most detailed description of history of the physical universe was the most macro state a person could hope to attain. Then I learned that by constricting myself to only one version of history, I was in fact chasing a micro state. Then I learned that by avoiding chasing micro states, I was still putting myself into a box. What's left is just to kind of wander in between the micro and the macro, including those moments when I just don't even know.

That's Dao, if ever I knew it.

>>18284420
>That place that rests in between contradictory viewpoints.
Yes, that's good

>Then I learned that by avoiding chasing micro states, I was still putting myself into a box.
This is also very important and a point that takes most people a while to get.

>>18284382
I've been thinking a lot about opposites lately. Like,how people use them to create arguments.They ask opinions expecting to be bipolar about like "which is best x or y?" and everyone says x or y and arguments or bickering ensues. Nobody ever considers the middle ground. If this sounds fucked up I'm sorry it's just a thought I don't know how to describe that's been bugging me for a few weeks. It just seems weird that we all focus on extreme ends of spectrum and disregard all that land in between.

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>>18284454
An over exposure to digital media has trained certain types to think only terms of binary data; 0 / 1 : True / False

They're forgetting their organic roots, whose advantage over digital computation is the ability to overlay discrete framework over gradient fuzzy data. And in this way grasp the overall concept of data, without having to visit each and every individual point.

You're just restating common religion you dumb faggot. Nobody cares what "you" are, they want some kind of innovative system to help them, and you're not providing that. Attain samadhi now

>>18284524
Sorry that I don't sell magic tricks

>>18284561

Every great mystic did magic tricks. If I wanted generica about breaking attachment I could just find an old Asian man

lrn2wizard fgt

Hey OP, do you listen to UG Krishnamurti?

Good stuff op but you should espouse some methodology as well. For many, descriptions of these states are not sufficient to let them reach those experiences of consciousness.

>>18284635
Not on a regular basis, but I've seen a few videos and I really like them

>>18284651
The only "method" I've ever used is relinquishment. Relinquishment of all methods, believes and even relinquishment of relinquishment. It's simple, it can be done in just a moment.
Although most people will probably need a while until they actually succeed.

I think that to many people, common methods like various kinds of meditation are actually obstacles they need to overcome.

>>18284240
As someone experienced with the sensation of enlightenment, I find most people who claim to be enlightened once were and no longer are.

I do not think OP is enlightened, but OP may still have valuable concepts worth sharing.

This one is up to you my se/x/y pals.

>>18285253
>I find most people who claim to be enlightened once were and no longer are

What does that even mean? How would you know?

>>18284240
OP Are you still here? I have a very important question to ask.

After a long time of spiritual activities, such as meditation and lucid dreaming, I felt a rapid feeling of awareness and calmness for a few days.

Now I am incredibly numb, I can barely feel any emotion or anything spiritual

I can't even meditate anymore or I get too bored.

I am afraid that I have cut myself off from all things spiritual.

If OP doesn't answer someone else answer it please. I feel like I am really screwed.

>>18285422
I believe I was enlightened once.

The book Three Pillars of Zen explained a period of my life where it felt like everything woud be okay in the eternal long run, and i was overcome with bliss with life on Earth.
While sober. It also made me realize I had a very religious side to me.
Anyway, the few people I've met who've come off as enlightened don't usually like talking about it due to the personal experiences had which makes explaining the sensation of enlightenment hard to describe in a way people understand.

But who knows. OP seems okay.

What is a two headed snow leopard?

When I'm relaxed there's crazy, whirlwindish tingles and pressures on my forhead and sometimes my hands, feet, chest. I can control them. I can make my forehead feel like some disconnected palm laying on me, up there.

I can make myself extremely happy and scary at will.

What's next?

>>18284240
pleased to be antiquated with your presence

I'm thinking of starting a war against death, where do I begin?