What's the most accurate definition of magic?

Imaginary.

>>18274196
it must be hard being that edgy

>>18274196
/thread

The most accurate would be the standard, Webster's.
Any true definition would be highly relative since many different groups claim to have the right idea on what is magic.
Then the definition in most cases changes over time.

The act or ability of the soul to alter or otherwise manipulate its environment. This could be as humble as you using your hand to move an object or as grand as drawing up a bunch of weird sigils and directly channeling your soul in order to make mad bank or something. Cause and effect is a basic component of our reality, however the fact that we have consciousnesses and souls grant us awareness and control over the ways we cause certain effects. Practicing that control in any form is magic.

the undefinable.

>>18274196
First post = best post. Always.

Fucking with your own head until change occurs.

>>18274197
>I believe the magician actually DID conjure a rabbit out of the top-hat!
>anyone who disagrees with my blatant down syndrom is edgy

>>18274203

I've often heard people decribe certain music or rituals being magical. Things people do in order to bring about a change in oneself. I think altering the environment ect with chi energy would be very difficult since what your describing is a form of magical thinking. I see people have very similar concepts but also differences on what magic is.

>>18274186

"Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will." -- AC

>>18274676
This

>>18274676

I would qualify that with something to the effect of "...through mechanisms currently not accepted by the scientific mainstream," otherwise effectively anything is a magical act (which is another debate all-together).

Some other worthwhile contenders:

“Magic is the Highest, most Absolute, and most Divine Knowledge of Natural Philosophy, advanced in its works and wonderful operations by a right understanding of the inward and occult virtue of things; so that true Agents being applied to proper Patients, strange and admirable effects will thereby be produced. Whence magicians are profound and diligent searchers into Nature; they, because of their skill, know how to anticipate an effect, the which to the vulgar shall seem to be a miracle.”
-The Goetia of the Lemegeton of King Solomon

“Sorcery has been called Magic: but Magic is Wisdom, and there is no wisdom in Sorcery.”
-Paracelsus

“A thorough familiarity with the occult faculties of everything existing in nature, visible as well as invisible; their mutual relations, attractions, and repulsions; the cause of these, traced to the spiritual principle to manifest itself, in other words a profound and exhaustive knowledge of natural law – this was and is the basis of magic.”
-Helena Blavatsky, Isis Unveiled Vol. I.

“Magic is the exact and absolute science of nature and its laws.”
-General Albert Pike

>>18274676
>causing Change to occur in conformity with Will
Wouldnt that mean, that achieving a personal goal by mundane measures is magic? Or even switching the channel on my tv

>>18274684
True magic is the sacred art.

>>18274186
No. Stop. Your hippy thread is destroying /x/

>>18274680
>I would qualify that with something to the effect of "...through mechanisms currently not accepted by the scientific mainstream," otherwise effectively anything is a magical act (which is another debate all-together).

And, indeed, any intentional act can effectively be a magical act. Your qualifier expresses a desire, not necessarily fact.

>>18274684

Could be, sure.

>>18274688
Yeah, us skeptics, right?

>>18274686
>True magic is the sacred art
Not sure what you mean. Sounds pretty vague to me.

>>18274708
>Could be, sure.
So doing things, that are completely normal and that everyone does is magic under this definition.

>>18274884
>So doing things, that are completely normal and that everyone does

Nope. Only if they are in conformity with will. That's more difficult than it looks.

According to Pythagoras;
>"“Magic is the Highest, most Absolute, and most Divine Knowledge of Natural Philosophy, advanced in its
works and wonderful operations by a right understanding of the inward and occult virtue of things; so that true
Agents being applied to proper Patients, strange and admirable effects will thereby be produced. Whence
magicians are profound and diligent searchers into Nature; they, because of their skill, know how to anticipate
an effect, the which to the vulgar shall seem to be a miracle.”

Magic is the art of pretending to have done something when you actually haven't and convincing yourself (and/or others) you have.

When you can't change something but really want to, the result is hopelessness and despair and/or fear, or frustration in less important situations. A ritual is performed to dispel this unwanted toxic mood via symbolic action. A classic example is magical rituals used to try to change the weather or prevent famine, which were impossible to control. A community that feels in control in such a way has more hope in the face of adversity.

Realizing that you can't control something and accepting this by letting go of the desire to change it is ultimately the most empowering to yourself, but not so much socially (Witchdoctor Bob says he can control the very elements, screw that guy who says we should just accept things.)

>>18274887
>Only if they are in conformity with will
Yeah, sure. I got that.
see
>>18274684

I mean, I am not sure if I got that, but to me it seems, that under this definition, everything that people do on purpose is magic

>Magick is the use of natural energies, not currently explained by science, to bring about a needed change.

>>18274905
>everything that people do on purpose is magic

It depends on how we interpret "on purpose". Many acts that appear superficially intentional are not.

>>18274950
Well, I dont want to derail this into a discussion wether free will exists or not.

I mean "on purpose" as in the every day usage of that term. Clear intent. actions with a done with a precis goal in mind.

But yeah, I think we can conclude from this back and forth alone, that
>>18274676
isnt really an accurate definition. Too vague, too much room for interpretations

>>18274899
this, also checked

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>>18274186
spirits doing ones bidding, compelled by contract.

this is illegal, and will land you in the eternal prison.

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>>18275540
i should clarify, this is sorcery/witchcraft.

general "magic", allowed by The All Mighty God, is that done in service to and in submission to God, for edifying his name "Yeshua".

the other form (witchcraft) is rebellion, since its mainly for the self and going against the kingdom of The All Mighty.

for an example, see the old prophets all their actions were in edification and service to Jesus.
The prophets higher than Moses, the son of David, the lamb that takes away the sin of the world.

Everything that can't be explained circa the stone age is magick. Anything else is revisionist. I am opposed to the redefinition of magick.

>>18274186
>>18274196
Genuinely, the first post is right, but not for the reasons you might think.

'Real' magic is all about deceiving yourself into doing the impossible, basically.

>>18274186
Bullshit?

>>18274186
Science before the modern era.

This planet is an illusionary thought construct within the larger one of the universe. Magick is fucking with the unconscious mind to mess with the coding and manifest changes.

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it's bullshit and
.
.
>>18274186
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>>18274186
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>>18274186
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>>18274186
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>>18274186
.
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>>18274186

Jews

>>18275841
Carnivora boy, is that you?

>>18275841
Where did you find that zombie photo at?

>>18275597
you mean deceiving yourself into thinking you're doing the impossible when you're really just affirming your own delusions

>>18274186
shit a nigga can't explain

>>18274676
Best explanation. Heed all uppercased words and seek the right interpretation

>>18274676

thats pretty fucking vague. so moving a chair or boiling some coffee would be magic according to this

>>18276270

It's not vague, it's broad. Learn the difference.

Gaia.com
Cosmic disclosure series
Season 5 has an hour long summary episode
Explains everything about everything

>>18276274

whats there to learn?

>>18276277
didnt that used to be a weeaboo kids forum

>>18276578
I don't think so lol. It just explains a lot about those missing pieces in science and history, aliens and spirituality, etc.
The free episodes were enough for me to pay the dollar for a month of access and I power watched the whole series. You can just unsubscribe right away and it won't automatically renew at the end of your month.

>>18274186
The most accurate definition of magic is science abrogated by plagiarism and obfuscation. The etymology stems from the priestly class of Zoroastrianism, 'Magus'. We can distinguish their work from early monotheism on the criteria of transparency and logic. Therefore the practice of science derives from the holistic and rationalist view of reality, integrated through monotheism. We catalog the practice of magic as an esoteric aside which is only fruitful when treated scientifically, with some degree of transparency or logic.

>>18274186
Sufficiently advanced technology combined with ignorance as to how it operates

This is true for all incarnations of magic throughout human history

>>18276578
It still is. Ignore the blatant shilling

>>18274196
That's one of it's attributes

>>18274186
Its like an old car, unreliable and utter shit but by some miracle manages to work every once in a while. Magic is bullshit and most things are coincidences but once in a great while something unexplained happens. One thing I will say about "magic" is that the like attracts like shit is real and has to do with psychology and the way the brain unconsciously processes information. Magic is a bullshit excuse for something we can't explain yet, remember; any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, so think on those terms. I hate /x/ spreading the myth that "hhhh look I can do mayjycks now look at mu cool sygel it summons a succubus when I say the magic words" actually has anything to do with it. Sigils are just another thing to unconsciously process, an unexpected correlation arises when many things are used in conjunction and is falsely attributed to magic.

>>18274686
Don't be a mysterious vague prick, "the sacred art" well what the fuck is it? Why is it sacred? Why is it any different from mundanity? You don't look cool being mysterious, you look like a pretentious asshole

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cant play it in mathematics calls

>>18276856
>>18276990
People believe in a creator > that we were designed
Things that are designed are often considered technology
> Sufficiently advanced technology combined with ignorance as to how it operates

The occult is the study of that which is hidden

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>>18274186
The use of unknown or (perceived) supernatural ability or assistance to perform an otherwise (seemingly) impossible task.

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one word, science.

>>18277025
biology is too complicated for science

>>18274186
corrupting space time with your will

>>18274186
Gay faggots stealing peoples noses, but not really...

quantum physics

>>18274210
>stage magic and magick are the same

Reeetarded

>>18276578
that's gaiaonline

>>18277102
The difference is that when you go to see a stage magician, you know it's fake.

>>18274197
it must be easy being that stupid

>>18276274
its vague

>>18276270
>>18276115
This definition is meant to be explored with discursive meditation.

>>18274186
Fake.

>>18277414

How?

They will break up.

>>18277639
read the thread

see for example:

>>18274684
>>18274884
>>18275424

>>18277663

But that's not a contradiction or a problem in any way. You just don't like it. Not liking something doesn't make it a flaw in an argument.

>>18275424
>I mean "on purpose" as in the every day usage of that term.

Okay. The author of that definition meant no such thing.

>>18275424

You don't practice.

>>18277664
>that's not a contradiction
Never claimed it is, thats not the problem

>You just don't like it.
Thats a dumb thing to say, when there are so many posts that describe the problem with this definition.

Since you seem to have a problem with reading, I will repeat it again:

It is too fucking vague to be accurate or useful definition of magic

>>18277681

Argument by repetition.

No, it's not too vague. The only argument given for why it's "too vague" is that it implies something you think is weird, but which is actually perfectly natural and intuitive to anyone who isn't retarded.

>>18277679
>Okay. The author of that definition meant no such thing.
Then what did he mean? What else does "on purpose" mean? He should have included a specification if he uses a wildly different definition. See how vague and confusing this is

>>18277682
>Argument by repetition
No, I repeated it, because you missed the point.

>No, it's not too vague
I desribed how non-magic things also fall in that definition, which is making it vague and useless. It has nothing to do what I think or feel, so stop strawmanning.

>hurr, no
>hurr u retarded
see
>>18277663
it was demonstrated how it is vague

>>18277687

>non-magick things

Well here's your problem. In following the logic of another system of thought, you have introduced your own logic and called the resulting confusion a contradiction in theirs. Those things you call non-magick aren't non-magick by the argument in question. That's not a shared premise. You're literally retarded.

>>18274186
stuff that hasn't been recognized as physics yet

>>18277684
>Then what did he mean?

Will was basically, for him, the intersection of one's nature and environment.

>What else does "on purpose" mean?

Anon introduced that phrase, as it wasn't in the definition given.

>>18277690
>Those things you call non-magick aren't non-magick
So switching the radio channel is magic. Alright
Cant you see how it is a useless definition of magic when it doesnt make clear what is and what isnt magic


>>18277704
>the intersection of one's nature and environment
what is "ones nature". Isnt environment pretty much the whole fucking universe? I see, this guy liked his vague definitions

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>>18276578
so like this one?

>>18277722

It makes it perfectly clear.

Let me put it this way since you're having trouble. In examining another person's definition of magick, you literally assumed they shared your definition of magick, then called the results a contradiction.

>>18277726
Well, yes I assumed that mundane things like taking a shit or making a coffee are not magic. This definition contradicts my assumption. This is what happened, you are right. I guess I am just baffled, that mundane shit that isnt "magical" in the slightest, is called magic. I just dont see the point in calling it magic then. Seems a bit misleading

>>18277731

It's the iceberg in reverse. 90% of what's called magick is in plain sight. It's only the remaining 10% that's "supernatural" or hidden. But it's all part of the same structure, derived from the same principles.

>>18277722
>what is "ones nature".

That's for you to find out.

>>18277732
Sure, I'll take your word for it. But this isnt specified in the definition and I still dont get why it is focused so much on the "doing normal shit" part. Why isnt magic just about the 10% that is actually extaordinary?

>>18277738

Because you can't build just the top floor of a skyscraper.

>>18277734
"Magick is the Science and [extremely broad term that can desribe almost anything that people do] of causing Change to occur in conformity with the intersection [find that out yourself] with evertything else"

It is the job of a definition to actually define something. It doesnt matter if it kind of makes sense to people who already know about magic and have tons of examples in their head. This isnt an accurate definition by any standard,
I am not shittalking magic here. I am just saying that I get the feeling that it might be one of those things that cant be clearly defined in one or two sentences (like "love" or "pride")

>>18277747

How you feel about a definition tells us nothing about its accuracy or utility.

In what way has your magical practice proved this definition wrong?

>>18277760
>How you feel about
This again?

It is objectively vague, by including other undefined terms and/or terms that have wildly different meanings depending on who you ask.
A definition has clear rules and should precisely define something without much room for interpretation.
You FEEL, that it is accurate, because I assume you already know what magic is about.
But yeah, apparently it cant be clearly defined.

>In what way has your magical practice proved this definition wrong?
nice reading comprehension. Thats not what I am trying to do.

>>18277774
>It is objectively vague,

Again, how you feel is irrelevant.

>Thats not what I am trying to do.

Okay, can you answer the question?

>>18277776
(You)

>>18277801

How long have you practiced magic?

>>18277806
You are either trolling or extremely obtuse. fuck off, you had enough (You)s already

>>18277813

So, you've never practiced, yet sit in judgment of what is and is not an accurate definition?

/x/ is the only place I've seen where actual knowledge and experience are considered a liability.

>>18277823
>So, you've never practiced
By your definition everybody is practicing magic.

> actual knowledge and experience
No, you showed here
>>18277776
that you are extremely obtuse

fuck off

>>18277839
>By your definition everybody is practicing magic.

Obviously not. I'm starting to suspect that either you're arguing in bad faith, or simply lack the logical skills to participate intelligently.

Science for dummies

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>>18277507
Is that Kaz talking to Charles Manson about magick? Where can I get rest of the fanfic?

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What if Ruby as like whoa what hold up shut up

>>18277846
>Obviously not.
Why not?
see
>>18277731
By that definition that was discussed, doing mundane shit is considered magic

>>18278027

Perhaps they mean to introduce a distinction between doing a thing and doing it willfully.

>>18278027
>Why not?

Your claim. Defend it.

>By that definition that was discussed, doing mundane shit is considered magic

Not necessarily. Try reading for content >>18277704.

>>18277904
My bet would be on Alan Moore and his tulpa.

>>18274197
If magic is real, why has no act of magic ever been caught on camera? Or witnessed by more than a small group of people (most of whom would be occultists themselves, and thus be in on the hoax)?

There are several recorded miracles of God, some of which have been witnessed by tens of thousands of laypeople, yet no recorded instances of magic.

>>18278246

The God stuff is magick, genius. Also, by that standard of proof every holy text is proof of magick.

>>18274186
Alchemy
aka big pharma

>>18278169
>Your claim. Defend it.
you claimed "obviously not". Regardless, other people itt seemed to agree that magic indeed encompasses mundane activities. So by that logic it is obvious that almost all people practive magic.

>Not necessarily
doesnt sound so obvious now.
I also already answered to that post you quoted. follow that reply chain and come up with a point

>>18278264
>The God stuff is magick, genius
It's not performed by humans though.

Or, are you implying that those miracles were actually created by a human whom, in his nearly bottomless capacity for humility, decided to attribute his own powers to God?

I find that slightly hard to believe, since all the magicians (magickians?) I've talked to are boastful and proud.

>>18278304

There's traditionally a distinction made between magicians and mystics, or left hand path and right hand path (not entirely the same thing, but close). But it's common among the latter group to hold that there is no magick without God, albeit not God in the standard Christian sense but in a magician's sense.

Think about the sin of Moses, who split the rock. He did this, but attributed it to himself. That was his sin. But God didn't prevent him from doing it, and in fact must have assisted him regardless of anything.

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>>18278213

You got one of the two right.

The break up is coming next month...

>>18278279

>Alchemy aka big pharma

If you study the Greek language the word for a magician or sorcerer is Pharmakos.

Cognate: 5333 phármakos – properly, a sorcerer; used of people using drugs and "religious incantations" to drug people into living by their illusions – like having magical (supernatural) powers to manipulate God into giving them more temporal possessions.

http://biblehub.com/greek/5333.htm

>>18274186
>What's the most accurate definition of magic?
Have you even tried a dictionary?

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>>18274186
>What's the most accurate definition of magic?

Magic IS a definition... DUH!

>>18274186
meme magic

>>18279733

are you really that dense?

>>18274186
I suppost magic would be best described as nature that doesn't have a rigorous explanation. Everything we don't understand yet can be perceived as some kinda magic.

>>18274186
Will.

>>18279998
I just came

So who exactly were the 3 Magi?

Hm.

Some of you might be interested in joining the /x/ occult discord.

We have discussions about things like this a lot pop in and you might learn something.

https://discord.gg/VhbnY3d

>>18274186

prout

>>18277743
I've been reading every reply and this just made it for me thanks XD

>>18280077

... so wait what is myrrh for / who by?

Gold and frankincense fit with my (lay)understanding

>>18281691

I think it was some rare fragrant

>>18277904

whos Kaz?

>>18274186

Unexplainable manifestations.

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>>18274203
Well said fellow, well said.

>>18282096
>posting Besinski's best work for literally no reason
You. I like you.

Language. Word is law.

anyone adept enough will understand what I mean

>>18274186
The art of practical deception.

>>18274186
A BIG DICK FUCKING EVERYONE IN THE ASS
THAT'S MAGIC
JUDGEMENT
THAT'S GODDIC

>>18282134
More than language.
What comes before words?
INTENTION. KNOWLEDGE. UNDERSTANDING.

The law became manifest as words/language, not the other way around.

I want to believe in Magic but i hope its not some demonic trickery like the Bible says it is

>>18282385
"Ur".
The only word that matters amongst slaves to the metallurgy of this plane.
"yew, arr"
"yewr"
"uhh"
"err"
You'd be amazed at how easily you are controlled by putting faith in words 'like law'.

If Magic is real then what is Mana?

>>18282694
Strength to continue casting.
Ever talked yourself into a state of exasperation?
Ran out of mana.

>>18282702

and why is it that the mana bar is always blue?

>>18282777
Your trips suggests you know the answer to your query.

>>18282617
You've got my attention.

manipulation of rule of nature

>>18282382
Are you on a Commodore 64?

>>18282910

ayy

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>>18280077
>So who exactly were the 3 Magi?

Zoroastrian priests. The modern three-headed Magian monster of monotheism has its roots in Zoroastrianism.

>>18274186
Schizophrenia + RP.