Where did the idea of santa claus come from? Is he an elf? How

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Wrong Holiday Season OP

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>>18253247
Well can we talk about krampus? Sorry bout that. Just want to discuss lore with people.

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Santa Claus is the Fly Agaric mushroom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTkmzbTILUw

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>>18253257
i once evoked santa claus on christmas eve. santa claus and krampus are one and the same.

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>>18253126
Turkic shamanism is the origin of Santa Claus.

Saint Nicholas is a patron saint of Turkey.

As a dude with the patronym phonetically equivalent to Noël, I am an expert on this bit of history.

>>18253126

>Where did the idea of santa claus come from?

Your mom.

>Why does NORAD do that tracking thing every year?

Because it's a fucking magical dude with manifestation and teleportation powers flying through our sovereign air space.

>>18253259
Very interesting. Tool has a write-up about this on their website.

>>18253296
I would like to see that image edited so the aghori priest is holding a lit joint.

You know, for the sake of authenticity.

Do you really despise christianity so much that you can't accept that Santa Claus comes from Saint Nicholas?

>>18253364
The theological issue is that christianity in Turkey had more in common with christianity Finland and Iraq than: Armenia, Ethiopia, or Iran.

These days the separate traditions are collated into a singular 'church of the east'; even though Nestorians and Copts are different sects.

The Sami of Finland have the reindeer herds; The Turks have the color scheme; and the Iraqis have the oranges and gingerbread.

From those traditions we synthesize Santa Claus.

>>18253364
No he just knows that Christianity is recycled cafateria Paganism (Syncretism won hearts and minds to become Christian converts) with a Gospel added in. Councils happened where men decided what dogma and tradition made the cut, all this after Paul had screwed up the message of Christ. Furthermore, Protestantism had watered it down more than Catholicism did. Good luck with that, I stopped blindly following after I left Seminary and researched further. Truth hurts. Either your beliefs stand up to facts and challenges or you change them.

>>18253257
Krampus predates Santa. Winter was a dark time. People could die from it so folklore came to reflect it.

>>18253333
Quads of knowledge, I need to know. Share us this wisdom.

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>>18253388
This book that talked about the origins of santa claus. It's a pretty good read.

>>18253409
I summarized the origins here:>>18253388

Another thing that people refuse is: Christianity and Islam were absolutely contiguous in those regions. Our modern notion of Christmas is fused with Mawlid, especially in America.

The Yazidi are the major group in Iraq who contributed to this tradition. It's a fundamentally syncretic notion that peoples of Abrahamic religions all worship the same god, and thus should not be in conflict.

That is why you have historical anomalies like the Caliphate of Cordoba delivering lemons to Armorica despite treacherously icy seas in the winter.

>>18253389
>Protestantism had watered it down more than Catholicism did.
There are over 30,000 different Protestant denominations, many of which uproot Paul's authority in favor of Jesus and the Jewish roots of the Torah. So your comment doesn't really make sense.

>>18253422
I have not read that book, I have had the blessing of knowing original source material.

>>18253405
That's beautiful desu. Imagine just living back then when all people had fpr entertainment was stories. I heard that people used to tell ghost stories during Christmas eve, sort of like halloween lore where they used to try amd get spirits out of the houses by scaring them.

>>18253444
It's really interesting. It tells the why of Christmas traditions. Also where it's celebrated and lots of other cool stuff.

>>18253461
It looks like pop culture from the Amazon description.

I told you the history of the symbols.

>>18253485
It's really more history anon. I've read it twice. The first and second editions.

>>18253499
Can you comment on the material?

>>18253436
The King James version did a lot more damage further from the books decided to make up the Bible. Among other things which you can research. The message was WATERED down and OCCULTED. The Rosicrucians do their best as far as Christians Mysticism goes, and they are of Protestant origin. Good for them.

>>18253510
I dont have the books right now in my possession but I can give you like an ezercpt from the book.

"Did you know that Iraqi Christians celebrate Christmas Eve with a bonfire of thorns? That farmers in the Netherlands practice Midwinter Horn Blowing throughout the Advent season? That people in Caracas, Venezuela, roller-skate to midnight mass on Christmas Eve? Find these fascinating facts and hundreds more in this new edition of William Crump's acclaimed Christmas Encyclopedia. From Charles Dickens to Robert Frost, from Mele Kalikimaka to Messiah, and from Charlie Brown to the Waltons, all our favorite Christmas traditions--modern and vintage--are covered here.
Crump's second edition of this comprehensive reference work adds 120 new entries, bringing the total number of Christmas-related topics to more than 480. Subjects include individual carols and songs, Christmas episodes of television series, literary figures, and popular Christmas symbols, as well as the origins of some of our most celebrated Christmas traditions. Unique to this work is its emphasis on Christmas as depicted in the popular media, with entries covering literary works, motion pictures and television specials expressing holiday themes."

>>18253510
It's divided into sections, first is history, facts and then pop culture at the end.

>>18253581
That excerpt was pretty close to the Amazon description. 'Iraqi Christians' are not a homogenous group in their religious traditions; so I do not think the book is a good source of information for me.

>>18253572
>Rosicrucians are of Protestant origin
>Protestants went on Crusade & collected Sufi/ancient Greek teachings & incorporated it into Catholicism
Ultimate tiptophue

>>18253436
Which "Protestants" are you referring to? Messianic Jews?

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>>18253741
>>18253893

You can with bonus points in history class for pointing out that those people were ethnically Kurdish, or religiously Yazidi. That is why we are being persecuted by ISIS and the Alawites.

It is a fact that was widely acknowledged in contemporary French sources. The subject is later middle ages translations of Genesis.
Rosicrucians receive a better translation of the Kurdish story of Creation, and the Protestants of Northern Europe receive a better translation of the Yazidi story of the Fall.

The English usage of the term 'sufi' is never quite accurate in this context.

In between the Abbasids and the Ottomans, we have a peacetime between Abrahamic religions when the Ayyubid caliphate was in charge. They shared a lot of knowledge with Europe, and that transfer is now erroneously referred to as 'sufism'. The ancient Greek stuff probably came from Turks and Kurds, too; because it originates from the point in time when Greece became monotheistic like Mesopotamia and Anatolia.

Our tradition of Christmas comes from the altruism of that substantial transfer of knowledge.

>>18253985
>The English usage of the term 'sufi' is never quite accurate in this context.
Yes, especially when it was a German Catholic who went into modern day Saudi Arabia to meet with Sufis, not a protestant Englishman who went into Iraq to meet Yazidis.

Further to this, I can tell you're a European talking about Arab culture without any knowledge of Arab culture proper; the Pax Arabia existed since the Umayad dynasty & that's when knowledge that the Arabs saved from the Translation movement trickled down into Spain & Sicily (when Spain & Sicily were nothing more but provinces of the Arabian empire).

And at that, the Ayyubid dynasty, when Jerusalem was reconquered from the Europeans in the 3rd Crusade, was very much into funding & protecting all the sufi schools of thought, while at the same time persecuting Yazidis for being Muslim Satanists. There was never any support or respect from Suni Islam towards Yazidis.

>>18253985
You also forget the fact that the Greek & Macedonian knowledge that was saved by the Arabs existed since Alexandre the Great & his invasion of Asia Minor. The only thing you can really thank Islam for is the preservation of bits & pieces of knowledge that would have otherwise been completely lost when the library of Alexandria burned. Other than that, when Catholic Europeans got a hold of this knowledge, that's when you start to see the Renaissance emerge (along with the Western tradition of occultism).

>>18253126
It came from some shit saint nicholas did way back then.

But you can thank coca-cola for the red tub of lard we know.

>>18253985
Furthermore, it even states in the Bible something about the traditional use of the Christmas tree...

If you're a true Christian, you wouldn't set up a Babylonian idol to put your gifts under; decorating cedar trees was a Babylonian custom, as the Easter tradition of the rabbits & eggs for fertility are customs from the Zoroastrians & Yazidis.

It's too bad that Christians claim that Babylon is the whore, without realising how they whore themselves to Babylonian traditions.

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>>18253741
I am going to extend another hand of friendship and point out the liturgical connection between Catholicism and Yazdanism. The book of Tobit is a shared story from just before the time of Jesus Christ; and it codified the angelology of both religions. The story was better received in Western Rome than Eastern Rome, and it relates to popular notions that Jesus escaped to France or Spain and fathered a royal bloodline. The most likely historiography is that Jesus was a Yazidi 'synod', since they were the jews in the province- and the responsibility for convening a council was assigned to individuals. There are some westward sea routes between the levant and the Pyrenees already used by Carthagian and Punic sailors. The Basque conversion to Christianity occurs contemporaneously with the life of Jesus Christ. Before that, they have animism, through symbolism consistent with Yazidi temples.

>>18254082
Yes; I never denied that Yazidism or any other pagan tradition had heavy influence on Christianity as a whole (including the Orthodox church & Eastern Catholic church).

My only point of debate was the anon who said that it was Protestants & not Catholics who founded Rosicrucianism.

>>18254038
>Yes, especially when it was a German Catholic who went into modern day Saudi Arabia to meet with Sufis, not a protestant Englishman who went into Iraq to meet Yazidis.

To whom do you refer?

The Yazidis went to France, and then England; traveling along with Sephardim. Both of those Jewish groups are in the tradition of Moses.

There is practically no sufism in Saudi Arabia.
It was typically the center of orthodoxy in Islam, so the veneration of individuals was prohibited strictly. I would like more details, because it sounds like a bad translation.

>Further to this, I can tell you're a European talking about Arab culture without any knowledge of Arab culture proper

I revealed my background here subtly, it shows that English might not be your first language for ignoring that word.

The problem with that term, as used in English, is that it collates a large group of people over a wide geographical area, and very few of those people agreed on everything. There are separate sects of sufism where you can claim a single ideology or leadership structure.

>Pax Arabia existed since the Umayad dynasty

That is a flawed, Roman-centric view of the middle east.

Do you want to talk about the etymology of the word 'Arab' as it is used in Yazidi or Sephardic sources prior to Mohammed, or even Rome?

>that's when knowledge ... trickled down into Spain & Sicily

You are talking about the translations of Aristotle. He cribbed from Carthage, so Sicily and Andalusia carried the knowledge. You are wrong to use an anachronistic geographical term when the correct term is still in modern usage.

>(Spain & Sicily ... provinces of the Arabian empire)

The Iberian peninsula was an independent caliphate, not really a province.

Sicily was a province, but it was always somewhat autonomous.

>while at the same time persecuting Yazidis for being Muslim Satanists.

You're misquoting Izady.Yezidi and Yazidi are Iranian or Iraqi, respectively different ethnic groups.

>>18254063
The coke/red suit connection is wrong.

Okay but for real. Can anyone give me a sigil to summon this jolly fat ass? I've already got the coal ready to circle around it, and the milk and cookies as an offering. I want this Christmas pay out to be big baby

>>18254183
>The Yazidis went to France, and then England; traveling along with Sephardim. Both of those Jewish groups are in the tradition of Moses.
Proof? Because Yazidis aren't an Abrahamic tradition at all; they're a combination of Suni Islam & Zoroastrianism, native to Northern Iraq, Northern Syria & Southern Turkey. The Sephardim, however, are Jews that follow the Abrahamic tradition of Judaism.

Also, there is Sufism in Saudi Arabia; not necessarily the Dervishes or anything you're familiar with, but there is Sufism there (which, by the way, is mysticism that revolves around orthodox Suni Islam). And since when were individuals venerated in either Suni Islam or Sufism, other than Mohammed & all the other prophets as strictly prophets?

And yes; I did read your "subtle" hint of your background; you speak like a European with no knowledge of Yazidism & its total pagan roots in Zoroastrianism.

>Pax-Arabia is a flawed Roman-centric view of the Middle East
Yes; the same flawed view you stated that there was an actual peace between all Abrahamic religions within "only the Ayyubid dynasty." This is the term used by historians to describe what you've described, except from the time of Haroun Al Rashid up until the Mamluks.

But yes; I know that the term "Arab" is a separate ethnic group, completely separated from the Kurds (i.e.: Yazidis) & the Caananites (i.e.: Sephardim, Druse & others).

>The translation of Aristotle
No, I'm talking about the Translation movement, where much, MUCH more than just Aristotle was translated & kept in the great libraries of Syria, Iraq, Egypt & Andalucia. Aristotle made no mention of anything to do with the Hindu methods like the Chakras & Ayurvedic magic, for example. This knowledge, however, was there since the Renaissance, in the hands of Europeans in Spain because of the Arabs actually having a global trade in knowledge from different countries along the Silk Road.

If you want a good documentary, look up Science & Islam.

>>18254046

One thing you misinterpreted is that the ethnonym 'Yazidi' is to the Sunnah as 'Mizrahi' is to the Shia. The term 'yezidi' is not synonymous with 'yazidi', because it refers to a group that was held in Babylonian captivity, in a place that is now southern Iran. Mehrdad Izady is a very bad source on the subject, because the conflation borders on confabulation. Yezidism, Yazidism, and Yazdanism all mean very different things; only the last is technically a religion.

>You also forget the fact that the Greek & Macedonian knowledge that was saved by the Arabs existed since Alexandre the Great & his invasion of Asia Minor.

That part is mostly attic greek words for phases of matter, and geography.

>The only thing you can really thank Islam for is the preservation of bits & pieces of knowledge that would have otherwise been completely lost when the library of Alexandria burned.

On the contrary, no one can deny the invention of chemistry occurred under islam.

> Other than that, when Catholic Europeans got a hold of this knowledge

They started to have kitab al-kimya translated by the Ayyubids; and then they learned chemistry. The western tradition of 'occultism' is not possible to specify historiographically, by definition.

>>18254064

>If you're a true Christian, you wouldn't set up a Babylonian idol to put your gifts under;

That part comes from Northern Eurasia and it relates to how the Ottoman Empire engaged in commerce during Christmas/Mawlid.

>, as the Easter tradition of the rabbits & eggs for fertility are customs from the Zoroastrians & Yazidis.

You are referring to the customary holiday of newroz/nowruz. It predates Zoroastrianism.

>It's too bad that Christians claim that Babylon is the whore, without realising how they whore themselves to Babylonian traditions.

That old testament stuff refers to polytheists from central asia taking over the middle east. 'Babylon' is not used specifically enough in modern times.

>>18254183
>The Iberian peninsula was an independent caliphate, not really a province.
>Sicily was a province, but it was always somewhat autonomous.
Again, you're thinking like a European.

The Arab empire was still all provincial. Only when Andalusia started to fall, do you see the different cities plinter into city states, as the Caliphate in Syria shifted towards Iraq during the transition from Umayad to Abbasid.

And then, with greater focus being put on the Crusades & fighting in the 3rd holiest place for Muslims/1st holiest place for Jews & Christians (Jerusalem,) Of course the West would be largely neglected & allowed to fester into civil war, but that brought the Reconquista, which was a positive action towards Europe's Renaissance (i.e.: rebirth, because Europe was reborn from all the knowledge that was brought to them from the Arabs, during a time where knowledge was strictly controlled by the Vatican).

>while at the same time persecuting Yazidis for being Muslim Satanists.
>You're misquoting Izady.Yezidi and Yazidi are Iranian or Iraqi, respectively different ethnic groups.
No; I'm not misquoting anybody. Yazidis are actually persecuted by Suni Muslims (most notably ISIL, Al Qaida & Al Nusra Front,) but also very disrespected by the Sh'ites (most notably Hezbollah) because of their view that Iblis isn't a djinni, but is still an angel called the Peacock angel & the idea that God kept him in the realm of angels as the antagonist (which is still similar to Judaic views of Satan, but is different in that the Yazidi Iblis is still a firey deity).

>>18254260
>'Babylon' is not used specifically enough in modern times.
>He's never read any of Aleister Crowley's works

>>18254104
>Yes; I never denied that Yazidism or any other pagan tradition had heavy influence on Christianity

First of all, 'Yazidism' is not a synonym for 'Yazdanism'; the former term refers to knowledge or stories from a Yazidi, whereas the latter term refers to bronze age monotheism.

Second, you should never use the term 'pagan' in an interfaith discussion. It is a hateful and derogatory word which denotes persecution. Your understanding is thusly crippled by an ethnocentric bias.

>My only point of debate was the anon who said that it was Protestants & not Catholics who founded Rosicrucianism.

I am more on your side about that because of how I separate the translations from the book of Genesis during the Ayyubids.

>>18254289
>Second, you should never use the term 'pagan' in an interfaith discussion. It is a hateful and derogatory word which denotes persecution
But it's the truth; Yazdanism (in keeping with your lingo) is persecuted as if it were a pagan religion, namely because it retains the Zoroastrian element of the Peacock angel being a diety of fire.

So yes, technically, the term pagan isn't offensive at all & is actually apt in this context. This said, I still don't feel that ISIL or any group has any right to persecute anybody, regardless of how they practice Islam or any other faith.

Also, Palestinian Maronite Catholic reporting in.

But yes; Christianity as a whole is a clusterfuck of everything, both right & wrong. Now, if only we could get rid of everything wrong with it...

>>18254233
>Proof? Because Yazidis aren't an Abrahamic tradition at all; they're a combination of Suni Islam & Zoroastrianism, native to Northern Iraq, Northern Syria & Southern Turkey.

No, Zoroastrianism is younger than the Yazidi religion, Yazdanism. The tri-consonant root 'Y-z-d' is autologous to the autonym of jews, in hebrew. You are extremely mistaken about time periods, in errors of more than one thousand years.

>The Sephardim, however, are Jews that follow the Abrahamic tradition of Judaism.

They call themselves a name from about the time of moses, whereas the Yazidi name comes from about the time of adam. Those are the eldest and closest jewish groups.

>Also, there is Sufism in Saudi Arabia; not necessarily the Dervishes or anything you're familiar with, but there is Sufism there (which, by the way, is mysticism that revolves around orthodox Suni Islam).

Why have you not yet referenced a specific group? My point is that different groups of sufis have different original teachers, hence there are sects.

>And since when were individuals venerated in either Suni Islam or Sufism, other than Mohammed & all the other prophets as strictly prophets?

The veneration of individuals is the main thing that separates Sufism from the Sunnah.

>And yes; I did read your "subtle" hint of your background; you speak like a European with no knowledge of Yazidism & its total pagan roots in Zoroastrianism.

You are the one who used the hate speech and ignored the invention of chemistry. There is no archaeology to show that Zoroastrianism is older than Yazdanism; unless you want to say that ruins in southern Pakistan are not either baalist or hindu.

> peace between all Abrahamic religions within "only the Ayyubid dynasty."

Did really you use double quotes to paraphrase me incorrectly?

>the term "Arab" is a separate ethnic group,

Did you look up the etymology?

> look up Science & Islam

Are you the same person who ignored the invention of chemistry?

>>18253259
why is this mushroom blamed for literally everything.

Alegheri has an entire book about this mushroom and christianity.

>>18254346
>the Yazidi name comes from about the time of adam
But there was no religion than, according to the Old Testament & the Torah; only Adam, Eve, Lilith, the angels & God.

>>18254346
>You are the one who used the hate speech and ignored the invention of chemistry
Hate speech? Where was there any hate speech?

Also, Arabs didn't invent chemistry, nor did Europeans, or any other group; it was exported from China through the Silk road & then developped by the Arabs, then taken over by the Europeans when the Ottoman Empire crushed the Arab Empire.

Besides, if you think the word "pagan" in an interfaith discussion is politically incorrect, then tell me why the Abrahamic religion still follows the King of the Nabatean pagan pantheon?

>>18254346
>Butthurt politically correct sand nigger lover detected
You're the reason why Europe's being raped by refugees, man.

>>18254261
>Again, you're thinking like a European.

Do you want me to explain the doctrinal difference in sharia as espoused by either Hanaf or al-Munzar? I think you need to understand the term 'sufi' first.

>The Arab empire was still all provincial.

Why can you not use the local term for the system of government? It was not an empire, because there were multiple branches of government.

>No; I'm not misquoting anybody.

You are misquoting Izady about the Ayyubids, that is English translation which supports your claim.

>Yazidis are actually persecuted by Suni Muslims (most notably ISIL, Al Qaida & Al Nusra Front,)

ISIL is a ba'athist group. AQ is qutbist. AN is wahhabist. These groups do not represent the sunnah as an entity.

>also very disrespected by the Sh'ites (most notably Hezbollah)

Hezbollah and Assad are just as bad as the aforementioned takfirist groups.

>because of their view that Iblis isn't a djinni but is still an angel called the Peacock angel

That part of Yazdanism is judaism during the book of Genesis.

>the idea that God kept him in the realm of angels as the antagonist (which is still similar to Judaic views of Satan, but is different in that the Yazidi Iblis is still a firey deity).

Satan and Ibliss are completely separate entities- that is the translation which catholics missed, but protestants got.

>>18254280
Crowley cribbed from Gurdjieff after G.I went around abetting genocide while the Ottoman empire collapsed.

>>18254407
>ISIL is Ba'athist
No they're not; they were a splinter cell of Al Qaida in Iraq, which is also Wahhabist.

>>18253126
There's actually an excellent Last Podcast on the Left episode about this very thing.

That show has really grown on me, at first I thought it was like wacky morning radio bullshit but Marcus does excellent research and they do say some horrendous shit that makes me lol

>>18254315
>But it's the truth; Yazdanism (in keeping with your lingo) is persecuted as if it were a pagan religion

You should not use words that correspond to inquisitional charges unless you want to be called out on hate speech.

>namely because it retains the Zoroastrian element of the Peacock angel being a diety of fire.

Those two entities are not eschatologically the same, and the assumption of likeness is off by thousands of years and miles.

>So yes, technically, the term pagan isn't offensive at all & is actually apt in this context.

It is offensive as a pejorative.

>This said, I still don't feel that ISIL or any group has any right to persecute anybody, regardless of how they practice Islam or any other faith.

Then you should not use jargon which is consistent with their persecution.

>Also, Palestinian Maronite Catholic reporting in.

Franco-American yazidi here.

I understand why you are making the anachronistic equivocation between yazdanism and zoroastrianism, now.

>>18254364
>But there was no religion than, according to the Old Testament & the Torah

That statement is an oxymoron in terms of how religion is philosophically defined.

>Also, Arabs didn't invent chemistry, nor did Europeans, or any other group

The instrumentation and original list of atomic elements are attributed to the author of kitab al-kimya. Hence works written by 'Geber' are prized by Europeans during the early renaissance.

>Besides, if you think the word "pagan" in an interfaith discussion is politically incorrect

It is used to persecute people.

>Abrahamic religion still follows the King of the Nabatean pagan pantheon

The lowercase word 'pagan' is unnecessarily interjected.

>You're the reason why Europe's being raped by refugees, man.

I thought that was Russia and Assad bombing civilians. Since when do I have the power to enforce customs and migration laws within the eurozone?

>>18254411
>No they're not; they were a splinter cell of Al Qaida in Iraq, which is also Wahhabist.

The people who fought for Saddam and then joined AQ are still technically ba'athist- especially if they migrated to Syria during the US invasion of 2003.

>>18253126
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4JB0ZqeyMk

>>18254477
skip to 1:40

>>18254356
It was the most accessible hallucinogen in the entire history of mankind and the hallucinations it gave fits every vision, paranormal experience, alien encounter and divine visitations ever recorded.

>>18254455
>You should not use words that correspond to inquisitional charges unless you want to be called out on hate speech.
How is the word PAGAN (meaning belief in a multi-god faith) a word of hate speech?

You're mistaking HEATHEN for PAGAN, though neither are hate speech (HEATHEN refers to those pagans wh follow the Norse pantheon of pagan gods).

Note how I use the word PAGAN to refer to something factual, as I have throughout the whole debate.

In other words, >>18254379

>>18254455
>Hurr pagan is such a racist word
>Durr Zoroastrians don't follow multiple gods in their pantheon
Uh... Yes, they do; that's why they're called pagans. Nothing's pejorative about the word pagan, or else nobody would be calling themselves pagans if they followed a pantheon of multiple gods.

>>18254455
>The word pagan is consistent with the ISIL's persecution
So... You're offended because you're one of those pagans that ISIL persecutes for being a pagan?

It's like you're an African guy telling everyone to stop calling you African. If I called you a nigger instead of African, then that's racist. But calling a pagan a pagan instead of "a person who follows a pantheon of many gods," isn't pejorative.

I guess that proves you're a pagan sand nigger, though; you clearly don't know English well enough to know that the word pagan isn't the "p" word.

>>18254455
>Pagan is a bad word, so don't use it
>My feelings are hurt because one religion with many gods is called pagan
So hold on now...

Look up the word Pagan in a dictionary. Tell me what it says. And if you want to tell me anon's being pejorative for calling Yazidis pagans because their Peacock angel is a combination of the Hebrew Satan & the Zoroastrian Ashmadai, you ought to be lucky he didn't call the Yazidis kafri, infidels or heretics.

>Sephardim
The devisive Jew has struck again

>>18254356
Fools be trippin'

>>18254578
>How is the word PAGAN (meaning belief in a multi-god faith) a word of hate speech?

Because you are confusing it with the word polytheist. It is defined as an adherent of a religion which is not mainstream; or as a non-christian.

Heathen means non-abrahamic.

>HEATHEN refers to those pagans wh follow the Norse pantheon of pagan gods)

I think we can both agree that polytheism is overlapping because of lax limitations on worship.

>In other words,

Are you granting me the authority to act as a magistrate or customs official?

Europe would be better off under secular law than with religious zoning, regardless of the religions zoned.

>Uh... Yes, they do; that's why they're called pagans.

One of the major differences between zoroastrianism and abrahamic religions is the polytheism. Your problem is that you are misquoting Izady without realizing where he has contradicted himself.

Why do you insist on using your own definition of 'pagan'?

>>18254601
>Yazidis pagans because their Peacock angel

That is the archaeological point I made.

The peacock angel is older than zoroastrianism by about 1000 years. Satan is a separate term used in that same context.

>Yazidis kafri, infidels or heretics.

He's doing the shiite equivalent and calling them apostates to zoroastrianism. Assad and ISIS are both ba'athists committing the same genocide.

>>18254643
>Because you are confusing it with the word polytheist
>Pagan doesn't mean polytheism
Uh... Yes it does. look it up, man.

If it's not, point out to me in a dictionary the actual definition of pagan. Because paganism is polytheism & nothing more; the same way as infidel & heretic in a religious context are the same thing (i.e.: simply a non-believer of any specific doctrine).

>>18254654
pagan |ˈpāɡən|
noun
a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions.
• dated, derogatory a non-Christian.

>>18254643
>Heathen means non-abrahamic.
Heathen means Nordic, not "non-Abrahamic." Heathen was used only in European contexts when it came to religious views against Vikings who followed the pagan ways (or "polytheistic" ways to you, since you seem so retarded to acknowledge the fact that paganism is a synonym for polytheism).

In the meanwhile, seeing how polytheistic religions aren't really mainstream, doesn't that also make polytheistic religions pagan religions? Because paganism is polytheism.

>>18254661
heathen |ˈhēT͟Hən|
nounchiefly derogatory
a person who does not belong to a widely held religion (especially one who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim) as regarded by those who do.

>>18254653
>Assad & ISIL are both Ba'athists
>Just because they hate everybody
No; Assad hates everyone who's trying to jeopardise his seat in power. That's Ba'athism. He's an Alawi, which is shi'ite.

ISIL, on the other hand, are Suni Muslims who follow Al Qaida's doctrine of anihilating all non-Suni Muslims, declaring them all as kafri (from Jews, to Christials, to Shi;ite Muslims & to all the other minority religions in the region). That's called Wahhabism.

>>18254660
>>18254677
Link to the site you found that in?

>>18254660
>a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions.
And you think polytheism is mainstream?

It's like you're the hipster who gets offended for being called a hipster.

>>18254643
See >>18253659

If you get offended by this, then I really pity you.

>>18254685
>Link to the site you found that in?
So, you are in need of a dictionary.

>>18254679
>o; Assad hates everyone who's trying to jeopardise his seat in power. That's Ba'athism. He's an Alawi, which is shi'ite.

That sounds like you do not understand what I said about Ba'athism; or you are trying to write an apologetic for Assad.

>ISIL, on the other hand, are Suni Muslims who follow Al Qaida's doctrine of anihilating all non-Suni Muslims, declaring them all as kafri (from Jews, to Christials, to Shi;ite Muslims & to all the other minority religions in the region). That's called Wahhabism.

Wahhabism is much older than ISIL, and it is espoused by others who do not share those same goals.

You should learn about the ideology of AQ as espoused by Zawahiri, who is a qutbist. ISIL was a political party formed by loyalists to Saddam who escaped to Syria during the invasion of 2003. Ba'athism and Qutbism are very similar, aligned ideologies.

>>18254695
>And you think polytheism is mainstream?

Do you think it is a synonym with paganism, or a subtype?

>>18254707

I do not get offended by photoshopped tarot cards.

>>18254711
>Qutbism are very similar, aligned ideologies.
Not quite.

You see; the Ba'ath party is, indeed, secular by virtue of its being the Arab equivalent of the Communist party of Russia.

But yes, I know that Wahhabism is older than ISIL; obviously. It's also older than Al Qaida; that doesn't mean they don't follow it to some degree (as in 100%, unlike you seeing things so biased because you still think ISIL's better than Assad, or whatever).

But why even give a fuck about it all if you don't live there? Just be lucky that you're in a better place. And be as pagan as you want to be; religion shouldn't matter, as long as you do good.

>>18254720
You would get offended if you found out the person who created that was using MS-Paint if you're a /g/entoomen.

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Santa claus is actually a demon the last real representation of pan.

He's not a man he's a satyr.

Also glass the middle east like Shiva did it worked then why wouldn't it work again.

>>18254660
>>18254677
How can you type so well like that? Are you using a character map or something to type up your own dictionary-like definitions? :^)

>>18254744
Allahu cuckbar

>>18254731
>You see; the Ba'ath party is, indeed, secular by virtue of its being the Arab equivalent of the Communist party of Russia.

No, you are confusing the Syrian Ba'athist party with the Syrian communist party. Iraqi Ba'athism was still islamist. Currently, the Assad regime espouses shiite fundamentalism.

>But yes, I know that Wahhabism is older than ISIL;

Then you should not conflate ideologies over three centuries.

>It's also older than Al Qaida

There is a list of writers and a section of history which distinguishes the two.

>as in 100%, unlike you seeing things so biased because you still think ISIL's better than Assad

They are both equally bad, and cooperate more often than the mainstream media covers.

>But why even give a fuck about it all if you don't live there?

Why do you feel the need to curse in writing?

>Just be lucky that you're in a better place.

Do you mean "feel lucky"?

>And be as pagan as you want to be

Zoroastrianism is being conflated with Judaism ITT.

>religion shouldn't matter, as long as you do good.

Then we are in agreement that IS and Assad are both evil, because of ba'athism

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>>18253126
per-christian rome used to celebrate a week long holiday called Saturnelia in december, ending on he 25th. during this day roles reversed, your slave could be you for a day. during this time everyone switching roles with each other would share gifts. christianity came in and wanted to get rid of this holiday but the people loved it so much so they used the excuse of jesus' birthday (which it isnt) to party instead.
now heres where it gets confusing...
saturnelia was made to honor the planet saturn. the god of that planet is chronos, the father of time. he is depicted as old with a white beard, who loves children (so much that he eats them). he lives on the north pole of saturn (where that famous cube/hexagon is). keep in mind the constellation capricorn (half goat thing) begins on the winter soltice.
now, saturn is universally known as satan's (depicted as a goat) planet. the cube at the north pole represents a cross folded up, but thats a whole nother story. so basically santa is satan.
the jews and illuminated laugh at christmas cause the masses are unknowingly supporting saturn. but santa gave me a playstation in 1996 so idgaf

>>18254779
side note: satan is also known as the devourer of children, just like chronos whom santa is modeled after.

>>18254654
Literally Google search pagan..

>>18253126
satan. the bearded guy symbolizing chronos, the greek god of time, death, harvest and decay (with the scythe also being the reaper). saturn being associated with satan, and the date of christmas, santas day falls on the same timeperiod they previously celebrated SATURNalia, a holiday dedicated to saturn which is satan.

also santa is an annagram of satan

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>>18254779
this pretty much, but let me continue where i think you stopped:
we know the elites worship satan/moloch(/lucifer?) which you can see at bohemian grove. now lucifer is associated with saturn. saturn has a hexagon on its northpole. put triangles on the flat sides of the hexagon and you get the star of david, put 3 lines inside it you get a 3D cube (look at pic related) like the black one in mecca where people walk even around in circles like the rings of saturn. open up the cube you get the christian cross.
now in the bible it says we shouldnt worship tin gods or false idols, yet we have those things? considering the symbolism, in christianity the idol is even lucifer killing the messiah. thats what people pray to. the elite made all the abrahamitic religions worship satan without them even knowing.
now if there is something behind those believes i dont know. but im pretty sure thats what the elites believe, and thats what they did, and if its real the symbols might lead to all the "mememagic" we put into those symbols we think we are giving god actually to satan. and people wonder why their prayers arent heard.
the number 777 is the number of god, the number 6 is the number of the human. 666 is the number of the beast, man trying to become god.
saturn is the 6th planet in the solarsystem, hexagon on its northpole is 6 pointed, satur(n)day is the 6th day of the week in most calendars. remember the cube? that could be a prison right? humans are carbon based lifeforms, carbon is the 6th elemenent with 6 neutrons, 6 protons, and 6 electrons, making a cube of the carbon would be 6x6x6 again. the earth is tilted on its axis by 23,4 degrees to the vertical axis, making it 66,6 degree to the horizontal ones. the more i look in it, the more i feel like this materialistic world is a prison.

>>18254779
Holy shit anon. Interesting....

>>18253709
It's a book to read for fun. Not for studying. Dont take it seriously.

>>18254779
Did you play metal gear solid?

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>>18254779
I have a different interpretation.

Saturnalia was turned into Carnaval. Pic related.

Saturn eating children is symbolic: Children grow up, they lose their innocence.

Saturn is not the Christian Satan, but the Pagan concept of destruction. Pagans worshiped fertility. Plants would grow, but then they would die and make room for other plants, which grew on their remains.

Pic subtext:
The bull, bored of the butcher's lust to murder,
Will now slaughter the butcher
Patiently he walks tied to the rope
Awaiting his dire fate.

>>18254884
Other common features of carnival include mock battles such as food fights; social satire and mockery of authorities; the grotesque body displaying exaggerated features especially large noses, bellies, mouths, and phalli or elements of animal bodies; abusive language and degrading acts; depictions of disease and gleeful death; and a general reversal of everyday rules and norms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival

>>18254884
the bull (already a symbol of satan with its horns) bored of the butcher's lust to murder,
Will now slaughter the butcher, basically rebelling against the boss, like chronos castrated his father, and threw him off the thrown, or satan rebelling against god.

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Santa Claus in its US incarnation was an invention by Coca Cola. They used the European tradition of celebrating Saint Nicholas, which in turn was a Christian adoption of an amalgam of Pagan / Old Norse Gods and Godesses, like Odin (would fly at night with his helpers and leave gifts for children), and Frau Holda (German Goddess of winter, people used to leave milk and honey for her around Christmas), and the Druidic Holly King (would save starving people in the winter and rode on a sled pulled by reindeer).

>>18254891
do you mean feast of the fools?

>>18254922
With things like the Electro magnetic drive being made, do you believe someone will take the role of santa and warp space deliver presents every year? Just a thought.

>>18254929
>feast of the fools
No, I meant Carnival. The Catholic adoption of Saturnalia.

Feast of the Fools: Its later reception history has considerably obscured modern understandings of the nature and meaning of this celebration, which originated in proper liturgical observance, and has more to do with other examples of medieval liturgical drama than with either the earlier pagan (Roman) feasts of Saturnalia and Kalends or the later bourgeois lay sotie.

>>18254868
just the first 2 when they released, i rented snake eater but didnt like it. i hear its the best one tho...

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>>18255162
Play mgs v it's great.

So many diamonds

>>18255162
I played Subsistence like ten times over.