Can drugs be used to enhance meditation? Tons of Vajrayana Buddhist

You're the seasoned meditator with the drugs. I should be asking you.

>>18248703
Drug shit goes in >>>/b/

>>18248703

That lady has a wonderfully developed pair of anahata chakras.

>>18248720
I almost tried making a chakra reference too.......

>>18248714
It's relevant if used for spiritual purposes as they have been for millennia. That's like saying people can't talk about Crystals here because I don't think they have paranormal or spiritual relevance, but to some people they do

I don't know. I'm sure some drugs work with meditation. But most drugs I take would make it hard for me to focus. Maybe peyote. I've never taken it, but would love to try.

>>18248703
Weed absolutely definitely does for me. Not so much for mindfulness meditation, but for perception-bending meditations. For example laying on your back, visualizing yourself on a board, and imagining the board moving to literally feel sensations of acceleration and movement. I think this is because psychadelics help to blur perception and visualization/imagination, which on the extreme end would be hallucinations.

Also works great for things such as concentrating on phantom tingling on the forehead, fingertips, and elsewhere, reaching trance states (not sure what to call it, I do it by focusing on the blackness with my eyes closed and sort of imagining myself sinking while slowing my breathing), and experiencing visuals in deep trance states.

>>18248703
>enhance
You will become an easier target for demons.

stop being a faggot

>>18248830
Don't let my appearance deceive you. I am beautiful on the inside.

>>18248714
hmmm, this guy is using different methods to reach higher level of conciousnes, he might be able to reach certain points that could break through spiritual boundries...

>>18248851
no. kindly remove yourself from 4chan

As a western man, you should never try what some Thibetian monks do. Some form of Buddhism, often found in Tibeth/Korea are holding shamanistic elements associated with demons. I study this as a part of my BA (east asian studies) and my prof told us to avoid quite alot of versions of Buddhism. I am 'sceptic' about most of this, however, since I myself have had experience with spirits (could greentext it if theres intrest in it) I would rather be careful. Be safe anons and pardon my shitty english pls

>>18248893
Since when has /x/ denied greentexts about demons, spirits and shit? Give us that shit my friend.

>>18248899
Its my third time on /x and my very first greentext so it might will take some time (also on mobile and currently in class, so please be patient)

>>18248893
This. Buddhism has many sects, each with their own ideals and practices. Buddhism and Daoism have pretty close roots and are practiced nearly side by side to this very day, but while the mainstream side of both promotes peace and harmony, once you go a little deeper you stumble upon some questionable practices and rituals that managed to raise some eyebrows even in ancient times, let alone if they were to be made public knowledge today.

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>>18248714
Cry more bitch nigga

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God dayum the titays on this woman

>>18248965
>hurr durr I got high and saw shit

isn't /x/, deal with it, stoner

>>18248703
>Can drugs be used to enhance meditation?

Yeah. Weed can help, so long as you don't use it for anything else.

>>18248805
>concentrating on phantom tingling on the forehead, fingertips, and elsewhere,

How do you interpret this phenomenon? I'm curious.

>>18249107
Tactile illusion based on something like a feedback loop between expectation and perception. Imagine yourself biting into a lemon and imagining how sour it tastes. You start to salivate. It's somewhat similar to that. My experience with other things such as inducing the feeling of movement via visualization reinforced this interpretation. I think that many mystical experiences are like this: self-induced perception-bending. This interpretation led to me figuring out a way to replicate it that works in many others, that was also independently figured out by many others on the internet.

Point a pencil at your forehead just above the brow. Imagine how sharp it will feel as vividly while focusing your awareness on your forehead - you want to create a vivid anticipation of a sensation. You should feel a tingling sensation. If this doesn't work use a knife to really create that expectation, if that doesn't work use a mirror, if that doesn't work have someone else hold the object and point it at your forehead.

Once you have experienced the sensation a bit you can learn to induce it by remembering what it felt like and anticipating feeling it again while concentrating in your forehead / fingertips. Concentrating on the sensation amplifies it because physically perceiving it reinforces the anticipation of feeling it even more strongly. This makes it useful for concentration meditation as it gives you a physical sensation to focus on that also is a gauge of how focused your concentration is.

>>18248703
Damn. Them tits. I can't even concentrate enough on your question to give a valid response. Use a less god-tier hoe next time. You have been admonished.

>>18248714
Fuck off hoe.

>>18249082
You're not even the one who the comment was aimed at.. SHUT THE FUCK UP.

>>18249085
Lies. Cannabis expresses it's true beneficial properties when used in teas and tinctures,

>>18248893
So instead of teaching facts, you was thought opinions about demons, sounds like most of the universities, desu

>>18249261

What a sad child!

>>18248883
My crystal ball tells me you like telling people they will go to hell if they do not share your beliefs.

They can be used to shift your perspective but ultimately should not be used as a crutch.

>>18249274
Are you talking to me or the person I replied to?

>>18249291

You, seems like.

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>>18249235
I am on your level, Onii-chan
I never thought my ultra empathy was something that helped me with my spiritual training but it makes sense now

It's made me a huge masochist, though

>>18249305
Ruminating is somewhat similar: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/overcoming-self-sabotage/201002/rumination-problem-solving-gone-wrong

ultra-empathy could be this if it means "feeling painfully powerful emotions about other people's suffering and suffering yourself." That isn't really empathy though. Empathy is awareness and understanding, not self-flagellation.

>>18248949
Does it not matter that all sects and religions raise eyebrows now from a logical point of view?

It's not even that "god is dead", the idea killed itself. It was based in nonsense and the minute people started making sense out of life and stopped believing whatever people told them, it was very simple to see that some imaginary friend actually doesn't control everything and life is just as it is.

>>18249262
I might have misrepresented it, we study about various religions, buddhism is one of them, we study about the religion and Buddha himself, not my profs opinions, however he often tells what he thinks/experienced and why we are listening to it is cause its intresting, also not like they would be part of our exams or anything. You might have a positive point of view on demons and such, that I did not intend to hurt, sorry.

>>18248703
Are her eyes pointing in different directions?

>>18248703
better to do it sober imo, better to avoid a reliance on anything

but i find that i can induce out of body experiences easily when drunk

>>18249298
That reply doesn't make sense though.

>>18248899
Sorry I had to listen to the class and when I got home super tired I just slept. Even though I would like to deliver so here it is. Not a spooky one or anything but its current/ongoing.

>be a kid, more than 10 years ago
>playing in my room with my buddy
>mom storms in, starts yelling wtf are we doing
>wtfmom.wmv
This was the first piece in the puzzle
>around 2 years ago
>mom got very hyped over being spiritual
>she found the normiest ways of being closer to 'spiritual' like reiki and such
>she studied from a lady that I believed is a scammer [im sceptic after all] later now, I think shes actually knows her shit
>we live in the countryside and lady travels here, in our home to teach reiki for a newbie group
>at that time I was at one of my buddies house for the weekend, but my parents told me what happened
>during the class there was very loud, continous knocinkg on the front door
>dad storms out cause he tought theres someone trying to break in
>404 no one been found
>lady asks my mother if the previous owner died outside
>mom is amused, exactly what happened
She fell outside and couldnt get up (like in the meme)
>i got home
>parents told me what happened
>i shat my pants
>later on at night
>playing videogames, my parents already sleeping
>hear knocking on the door
>told the spirit to go away
Lady told me to tell a poltergeist that I can't hear nor see them so go away, and they will
>10 minutes later I hear it again
>well then ill just go to sleep cause it creeps me out
>this happened for like a week after the reiki class, then I couldnt hear it anymore or when I did hear something, it wasnt obvious
>around a year later or so, there was a reiki class again in my home
>now im participating too
>middle of the class there is a very fucking loud bashing on the door
>like someone is trying to break it down but also that someone is a weak / old person
(sorry thats the best way to put it)
>we all freak out

>cont

>>18249407
>Lady says the poltergeist is angry for something [probably/blames/the/house/for dying.theory.com]
>can hear knocking ever after, for some reason late at night ~ around 11pm to 5am
>I always either ignore it or tell her to go away already - never did
>lat time I heard it was like 3 weeks ago
>dunno what to do with it so we just live with the fact
>nothing moved in the house, no one got hurt, just the knocking
>son of a bitch never knocks when one of my best friend is there even tho we tried to pull a few all nighters

Well that is the story so far I guess. Its just knocking. Outside of the family only the classes heard it.
Whats your toughts anons?
Also forgive my bad english please

I love to meditate on acid, that's something else, I have had genuine epiphanies in that state, there's nothing like it.

>>18249367
They do seem to be somewhat askew, yes.

>>18249329
The point wasn't about religion itself, or the views of it in modern times, but certain practices that you wouldn't associate with religion at all. I was supporting the Anon who mentioned to stay away from certain buddhist sects because of their shamanic and demonic ways, but that doesn't even scratch the surface. The good thing is there are almost no written records or manuals available online, atleast in english, the best you'd probably find is how to refine a blood spirit and that's like child's play compared to what's out there.

>>18248703
absolutely. so many drugs and in so many ways.

kratom is excellent for meditation and it's no wonder considering it comes from the far east

marijuana is good, amphetamine at low doses can be good.

>>18248703
Yes I usually get my hands on some krokodil and climb up the highest crane I can find

>>18249427
The spirit's fucking with you because you fear it. Next time it starts knocking, get angry as fuck, strip completely naked and open the door. Proceed to scream at the old hag that if she doesn't quit you're going to find a way to catch her and seal her soul into a cock ring so the only thing she'd be knocking on is your twink boyfriend's backdoor. I suggest you do it when your parents are away, unless are actually gay and they're ok with it.

>>18248720

You can even attain nirvana with photoshop these days!

>>18248805
I've felt this too, after smoking weed.
A "whoosh" of spirit, a tickling electric spark creeping up down your spine to the middle of your chest, a buzzing throughout your arms and legs.

I experience it infrequently, but I love it when I do feel it.

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>>18249514
I thought of pic related when reading your post.

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Chamomile, Kava Kava, and Valerian can all be used to change your meditation practice. Certainly with Chamomile I noticed a deep, serene kind of calm.

Binaural beats can also be majorly helpful and it's kind of just nice knowing that you've got some training wheels when you start.

lsd is perfect to meditate on. your brain is so incredible, the universe is so incredible, my god.

>>18248703
Our bodies (of which our brains are a part) are definitely at least a collection of chemicals. Arguments that they are more than that are surely valid, but not sound in the strictest sense, because proof would be unverifiable through traditional means of repeatability via objective measurement. Therefore, we can conclude that perception and thought are at least a product of chemical interaction, and that introducing chemicals to this balance will by definition alter or augment that perception. Because our reality is defined by our interaction with the world around us to a large degree, and perception is the proverbial window through which we "view" this world, chemicals are a method by which we release our control over perception. It's literally taking a trip in this sense, if we consider our empirical senses as the vehicle through which we travel in time and space (which are the same thing, of course).

This is not to say that drugs are required to achieve "enlightenment," or that they are even necessarily beneficial out of context, but rather that they do assist us in giving up control over our reality and allowing us to transcend our ego.

Perhaps a useful metaphor is to think of drugs as training wheels (I don't love this metaphor, but it basically works): you use them until you realize you don't need them. This may not be a linear path, but more of a general concept.
tl;dr: yes.

>>18251683
Hmm. Didn't even read >>18251511 before mentioning the training wheel thing. Weird. Hivemind FTW?

I dont think its a question of whether or not they help.

Meditation is meant to be a daily practice. So are you going to be using drugs every time you meditate? Indefinitely? Or will you stop using the drugs after some time, losing any advantage they may have given you and have to start from scratch?

Its like using steroids to bodybuild. If they help you gain results, you have to keep using them to maintain otherwise you're just gonna lose your progress.

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The only way to know a system in physical reality is to introduce a change in that system, and track the change in your senses, as the system changes due to the initial change you introduced. This is true for particle physics. It is true at the quantum level. It is true for your own body.

The only way to understand the relationship between your body and your mind, is to introduce a change to your body, that changes your mind, and track how that affects each part of the system over time. The mouth noise people make to describe changes to their body by way of their metablism which affects changes to their mind, specifically is "drugs," but they're really referring to a very specific set of neurotransmitter agonists when they make that mouth noise.

Think of it like a scientific experiment. You have a control--your body not on drugs. You have an experiment--your body on drugs. You note the differences in between, and in this way gain a better understanding, both linguistically and spatially, of your body, since understanding is the mouth noise people use to talk about when their mind's pattern overlays the pattern of that which they understand--in this case, your body, by way of metabolism.

Meditation is the process by which one allows their body's metabolism to normalize in rhythm with their mind. So yes, there is some overlap between meditation and drug use, although I would say they operate in different directions. Meditation introduces a change into the mind, to affect the body's metabolism. Drugs approach the same process, but with a reverse causality.

>>18252708

But if you are introducing two experimental factors (meditation, drugs) at once, how can you tell what is effecting your body, the drugs or the meditation?

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>>18252723
You are not introducing two experimental factors. That is incorrect language. The way experimental factors are measured are in total system states. People who don't understand this don't understand quantum mechanics. You cannot change even *one* thing without changing the entire system.

If you introduce meditation and drugs, then you are introducing one experimental factor. "Meditation and drugs." There is a version of you that is not meditating and on drugs, and there is a version of you that is meditating and on drugs. Two total system states. Doesn't matter which you call the control and which you call the experiment. It's the same difference between left and right.

If you understand this, then you understand the answer to your question. If you didn't already know the answer to your question you asked it, then you don't understand this.

>>18248714
BENUS

I've used DXM while meditating before. I find that it makes inducing sleep paralysis or OBEs quicker and easier, which makes sense since it's a dissociation. I've tried Xanax, but honestly it's kind of boring. I feel like it doesn't change your mental state that much besides making you relaxed. I thought that if I tried a higher dose I would have a more intense, cerebral high, but that just put me to sleep.

This isn't really meditating, but I like to go into the wilderness and smoke weed, then just marvel at the natural world. It makes me notice/appreciate things I didn't before.

Semi relevant: does anyone have any books on more "scientific" meditation? Techniques based on neuroscience, rather than chakras and whatnot? I don't see why meditation can't be studied scientifically.

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>>18249283
Your Crystal Ball would be correct about him.

>>18248754
Well there is a line between discussing crystals in general or discussing the uses of crystals in spirituality. Much like how talking about drugs isn't paranormal, but using drugs to enhance your spirituality technically is.

>>18249313
You're awareness could prompt self-flagellation

>>18252780
This. Jumping Jehosephat on a pogo stick, this.

Why would you waste a drug high on meditation? When I get high or wasted I like to fucking relax not sit still and kill the buzz.

>>18249503
Please, continue, anon

>>18248703
Kinda, I mean its like a powertool you have to respect it, because otherwise you can end up doing alot of damage. Its not like hey i blazed one now i'm enlightened.

>>18255726
but meditating is the ultimate form of relaxing..

>>18249235
just back from your behavioral psyche class? Fuck pavlov and his dogs. It honestly goes deeper than all that, if you say that you perceive reality through a set of feedback and control mechanisms and owe in essence all of your utility and to a very literal sense your identity and reality itself, than you not only have to question yourself but reality itself. Going further if we dictate that our relationship to feedback mechanisms permeates not only physical realities, but through information biological and sociological ones, than we can say that our interaction with it can say that through mere understanding of information & subtle action upon it can not only change perception, but identity, society, and to a possible and actual extent reality itself. Its all about how much of a realist you are and how much you can ascribe to the properties of emergence in systems. Food for thought.

...Jordan Carver, if anyone was wondering on sauce.

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>>18248714
Drugs can be /x/ related.

Daoism follower here.
I train and recieve teachings from a daoist lineage and happen to know a vajrayana temple that is near my town. None of them ever spoke of drugs for meditation positively. It may get you places you wouldn't get into normally, but it also means disrupting your natural development and open you up to energies you don't understand. Know people well who do drugs for meditation, and all of them tend to be either 20+ year olds with recurrent family issues, people too dependant on religous systems and dogmas to freely develop their spirituality past their insecurity problems. On the other hand, people I know who experimented drug meditation and got done with it/didn't use them at all on spiritual practice tend to live healthier lives.

Basically drugs take you off of the real world, and meditation is made to do the opposite. If you get outside this plane of reality in meditation, you go through it. You'll only be free from the ordeals of this world and your own self when you are the one who finished your business with it.

That being said, your path is your path, do what you believe is right if your intuition tells you to. Not the path I recommend, but maybe it will be what ends up floating your boat.

If you want to have herbs and stuff to help you, it won't be through smoking them. You can add gold berries to your diet if you don't suffer from low blood pressure (from 5 to tops 10 grams a day) and look for a daoist herbalist if you can. Make sure to know where he learned his practice from.

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>>18255726
If you do it right, meditation can potentiate a high. Or it can do the opposite. In the wise words of Mr. Lahey, you don't want to "drink against the grain of the liquor". I think the reason this works is that thought yield like thought. E.g. anxious thoughts lead to more anxious thoughts, which lead to more anxious thoughts, etc.. The same is true with drugs. High thoughts lead to more high thoughts. You can keep this thought train going with meditation.

>>18256820
>drink against the grain of the liquor
kek i love lahey

>>18248703
It's little wonder that she needs yoga, without daily practicing for a sense of balance she'd probably spend most of her time falling over from the weight. Damn if those were/are real...

>>18249085
You're a nigger

>>18249283
>>18253074
your crystal balls are wrong as fuck. I am an atheist who is more than sympathetic to the beliefs of others.

>>18257479
same guy, I just believe that drugs impair meditation and lead you astray in your search for wisdom. I am someone who has done drugs and meditates regularly, sometimes at the same time. But its pretty obvious that it is a cheap out and doesnt bring you to the same place meditation is supposed to bring you to.

>>18248703
Certainly.

I think that it depends on the person, though. Some benefit from psychadelics. Some benefit from weed. Some require sobriety to clear their head, and for some sobriety is what clouds their minds.

Hell, some of the most intelligent people in history have been alcoholics.

>>18248703
Dont listen to any faggot OP. Drugs are the way. Why do you think theyre illegal? To keep us here prisoners. REMEMBER the more drugs you take in one go, the surer your ascension to the next dimension will be. The more the better. Just do it and thank me later.

>>18248720
Am I the only lyrics one that noticed her eyes are fucked up?

>>18257490
Okay then

>>18248703
Why would you drink coffee with Xanax? They cancel each other out. Weed and Xanax I can see, but mixing that with coffee is retarded imo.

Coffee is a stimulant and weed/xanax are depressants. You don't mix stimulants and depressants because they have the opposite effects and don't synergize with each other.

>>18260351
Weed and coffee have great synergy!