What is the abyss? How does one overcome it?

somewhat off-topic but I really like the designs of human disorders such as in the OP

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>>18218779

Yeah, they're great. Anyone else gets the idea that mind disorders can be tied to evil demons? OCD seems to me very akin to Chronozon.

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I think I'm gonna use this one as a monster for an RPG campaing

>>18218700

Also, Is it possible to understand the abyss outside a qabalistic point of view? I'm not familiar with the tree of life, and all descriptions of it are either very vague or very tied to sphere transitions which are not my thing.

>>18218798
>OCD seems to me very akin to Chronozon.

Not really.

>>18218869
>Also, Is it possible to understand the abyss outside a qabalistic point of view?

Sort of. Conceptually, the abyss is what separates that wch is from everything you can say about it.

>>18218870
>>18218871
could you both expand? Or maybe point to something you consider a valid source?

Is the abyss a name for that uneasy feeling when you realize that the world is not as real as you thought? I mean that derealization inherent to the manifestation of thoughts in reality. You suddently feel like reality is the matrix.

Or is it more an embodiment of all the possible fears that can materialize in your life?

>>18218932

I see no connection between OCD and Mr C, so there's nothing on which to expand.

What is confusing about the second comment?

>>18218947
>Is the abyss a name for that uneasy feeling when you realize that the world is not as real as you thought?

No.

>>18218947
>Or is it more an embodiment of all the possible fears that can materialize in your life?

More like this, sort of your worst nightmare come true.

>>18218958
>More like this, sort of your worst nightmare come true.
So being in the abyss is having your worst nightmare come true? or just the impending, very real threat of the danger coming true? Because living with OCD is totally the second

>>18218958
Are you supposed to get into the abyss willingly? or is just something that happens naturally by practising magick?

>>18218978
>So being in the abyss is having your worst nightmare come true?

Pretty much.

>>18218980
>Are you supposed to get into the abyss willingly?

Yes, it's probably the most critical moment in path of the adept.

personifications of mental illnesses are so fucking corny

>>18218700
Why does it need to be overcome? Why not explore it?

>>18218997
>Why not explore it?

Because it is, by nature, highly corrosive.

>>18218991
so, for example, if your deepest fear is losing your kids, in order to fullfill your adept path, you have to kill your kids?

So it's your deepest fear and you do it willingly. I'm I right? because if its like that, only the most insane guys will reach the top of the magic hierarchy

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>>18218993
>corny

I find them very real. Even the looks of them seem awesomely fitting

>>18219094
>you have to kill your kids?

Nope. The more obvious alternative is letting go. That's how you make it across the abyss.

>only the most insane guys will reach the top of the magic hierarchy

What would you expect? Masters an Magi are going to be kinda out there. They've seen some shit.

>>18219004
What happens if you stay there too long? Death? Non-existence? Corruption?

>>18219106
>Corruption?

And dissolution. For the, "Babe of the Abyss", there is that which remains.

>>18219096
>I find them very real
t. neurotypical

Where is Schizophrenia?

>>18219162
just imagine a poorly put together monster with teeth and death and some text about how it's crazy frightening rather than how frightening people treat you when you're schizophrenic

>>18219115
Can you elaborate?

>>18218700
Avoid the green demons. They are bad. Red demons are your friends. Heed their mechanical mutterings. It is what passes for wisdom in their realm.

>>18219171

Can you be more specific? When an exempt adept takes the oath and enters the abyss, if successful they become a babe, eventually washing up on the shore of Binah.

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib156.html

>>18219199
Just wondering what you meant by "dissolution" and "that which remains".

What specifically happens to you if you take your sweet time and just decide to go poking around in the abyss?

>>18219209
>What specifically happens to you if you take your sweet time and just decide to go poking around in the abyss?

How do you propose doing this?

>>18219213
No idea. Just curious.

OP. You are basically listening to a man's rambling and asking him questions on it. If you really want to know about the abyss, take DMT. You will ego death and realize that letting go to the powers that be is an exhilarating thing.

>>18219102
>The more obvious alternative is letting go.
So, following my analogy, it would be like "don't giving a fuck if your kids live or die"? It doesn't seem too bright, anyhow, since cultivating that detachment would make you a shit dad

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>>18219162

>>18218700
Idk really but it realllyy fucked up Oolacile

>>18219199
do you need to get into a sect to enter the abyss? what kind of oath is that?
speak christian!

>>18219221

Depends on who's doing it. A master can go there without harm. Anyone else will be torn apart, eventually. The black brother, the one who refused to let go, walls himself in a fortress, where he slowly dissipates.

>>18219235
>It doesn't seem too bright, anyhow

What else would you say?

Seems one destined for mastery would have more control over their life choices than your hypothetical punter.

>>18219224

lel

Druggie wisdom.

>>18219241
>do you need to get into a sect to enter the abyss?

No.

what kind of oath is that?

Oath of the Abyss.

>speak christian!

wtf?

>>18219282
>Seems one destined for mastery would have more control over their life choices than your hypothetical punter.

I don't understand that. I thought you had stated that it wasnt about life choices, but about detachment. Am I right?


>Depends on who's doing it. A master can go there without harm

What does the master know that makes him invulnerable? again, is it detachment? Would a psycho have any kind of advantage due to his lack of empathy?

>>18219224
>You are basically listening to a man's rambling and asking him questions on it

He was the only one to answer until you appeared. I hate psychedelics, I hate the lack of control they induce over the mind, thats why I prefer to use meditation for now. But, If i understand correctly; the Abyss is not something you undergo in a short trance (that would be more a Dark night of the soul) but something that can span months, years and even a whole life.

But again, I'm here to ask about the nature of the abyss, not to preach about it.

So, the abyss is all your fears becoming true, or just embracing the possibility that they might become true? because If its the former, your life is fucked from the instant you become a magician, so it seems a little weird that people swears the oath in the first place if there is not at least a chance to prevail.

>>18218947
Then surely the escape is the destabilisation of fear through a new set of belief?

>>18218700
The abyss is your girls ass after she went on "girls night with her friends"

>>18219708
>I don't understand that.

Why not? Maybe having kids was a bad choice in the first place. It seems to be causing you some difficulty.

>What does the master know that makes him invulnerable?

Wrong thinking. What has he lost?

>I hate the lack of control they induce over the mind

Learn better control or don't do them.

>it seems a little weird that people swears the oath in the first place if there is not at least a chance to prevail.

Weird assumptions.

>>18219236
Real schizophrenic here. This is retarded.

>>18219731
>hy not? Maybe having kids was a bad choice in the first place

If it wasn't the kids, it would be another thing. There is always a fear to be exploited. I'm just using examples. What I mean is:
a. Do you have to activelly enact your fears?
b. Does the Abyss bring those fears through fate manipulation, becoming true into your life?
c. Does the Abyss use this fears as an intimidation for the adept, but is more a mental thing?

>Learn better control or don't do them
thats what I do

>>18219751
>b. Does the Abyss bring those fears through fate manipulation, becoming true into your life?

Probably the closest answer.

>>18219766
then, how do you beat the abyss?
by losing everything so you can't lose anything more?

Also, If you deal with the abyss you are putting your most loved ones in danger. It doesn't seem fair to me, they didn't swore no oath. Also it clashes violently with the "all men and women are stars" from Thelema.

Does the abyss end by itself given time, or does it even stay forever influencing your life without end?

>>18219859
>then, how do you beat the abyss?

See >>18219208.

>It doesn't seem fair to me, they didn't swore no oath. Also it clashes violently with the "all men and women are stars" from Thelema.

What led them into your orbit? If it's wrong, someone fucked up somewhere.

>Does the abyss end by itself given time, or does it even stay forever influencing your life without end?

You either cross, fail in the attempt, or become a black brother.

>>18219873

So, you must renounce to your health, wealth and love. Thats it?

Would just changing your mindset until you get a "Im a psycho who doesnt give a fuck" mentality allow you to cross? Thats why all the yogic bums go bumming around in india?

Could you once crossed go back to normal life?

It seems weird, because Crowley itself was a rich, married guy.

Can the abyss manifest itself without you activelly searching for it?

Also, If anyone is reading this, I'd love to have non-thelemic versions of the abyss to compare

>>18219766
Why "closest" and not "totally right"? could you specify how does it work?

>>18218871
Go on...

something taken from an old reddit

" Personally I took a similar oath when I sought after the angel (its important to remember that seeking after the angel, by most accounts, turns into an oath to seek the abyss. But maybe not always.) Here's my version of the oath: I WILL ACCEPT THAT ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING I EXPERIENCE, WHETHER I LIKE IT OR NOT, WHETHER I PERCEIVE IT AS GOOD OR EVIL, OR WHATEVER, IS A DIRECT COMMUNICATION TO ME FROM ___ (my holy guardian angel, god, source, aliens, you fill in the blank...) And then the other part of the oath, the hard part: you actually have to believe that! Everything you experience must be evaluated in that light..."

I have something to ask: How do you know that you've crossed the abyss and that you can return to normal life, and start taking things as random instead of HGA messages?

“CHORONZON: I am a dire wolf, prey-stalking, lethal prowler.

MORPHEUS: I am a hunter, horse-mounted, wolf-stabbing.

CHORONZON: I am a horsefly, horse-stinging, hunter-throwing.

MORPHEUS: I am a spider, fly-consuming, eight legged.

CHORONZON: I am a snake, spider-devouring, posion-toothed.

MORPHEUS: I am an ox, snake-crushing, heavy-footed.

CHORONZON: I am an anthrax, butcher bacterium, warm-life destroying.

MORPHEUS: I am a world, space-floating, life-nurturing.

CHORONZON: I am a nova, all-exploding... planet-cremating.

MORPHEUS: I am the Universe -- all things encompassing, all life embracing.

CHORONZON: I am Anti-Life, the Beast of Judgment. I am the dark at the end of everything. The end of universes, gods, worlds... of everything. Sss. And what will you be then, Dreamlord?

MORPHEUS: I am hope.”

-drops the mic-

SOURCE: the sandman comics

>>18219873
>What led them into your orbit?
It's not an excuse. Its just plain irresponsible to attempt a magic that puts other people than the magician in danger.