Magic tho

>>18201582
You're a strange and picky one for someone who doesn't understand any magic.

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>>18201582
Not trying to be a dick, but I understood and respected you up until you mentioned Chaos Magick. You have reasons for avoiding ritualization and all of the magick sorrounding mainstream theosophy, but taking the 'Dude just draw a sigil and believe real hard lmao' route isn't something a lot of people will take seriously. Surprised even you would look into chaos with the outlooks I draw from the rest of your post.

But if you really want to go that route then good luck to you.

>>18201604

Well I don't know much about chaos magic, I was just under the impression it was just application and not just sigils.

>>18201599

It's hard to be enthusiastic when one doesn't believe the mythos behind the ritual.

>>18201604
Why not 'just draw a sigil and believe real hard' though

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>>18201638
Most magic(k) is pretty much just confirmation bias and effort justification, only chaos magic(k) throws effort justification out the window and invites the practitioner to rely soley on confirmation bias.

Take the example of a guy pawing over the Ars Goetia/Grimorium verum for three weeks, gathering the ingredients/reagent, crafting a dagger from a branch of a certain tree at a certain time etc. Then fasting for a week or so, before staying true to ritual form and following invocations to the letter.

Then you have the armchair chaos dude who creates a sigil on a bit of paper in like 10 minutes and sits back waiting for the goodness to happen.

Sure there's elitism on the oh so mighty invoker as compared to the chaos dude, and I haven't exactly portrayed him correctly, but that's for the point's sake. It shows how much effort the goetic guy is willing to go through as told by his source material. As such he will justify it and maybe even delude himself into thinking the ritual has worked, whereas the chaos guy doesn't even have that. He just has pondering and hoping his afternoon wasn't wasted.

>>18201634
Why? What's holding you back?

>>18201681
Effort justification for the chaos magician isn't out the window, I think, but just much less available. The fact that I even have to draw and invoke this sigil instead of just raw belief and mental will/action to accomplish my whatever is "commendable" effort, if not much at all. I think in this way the chaos magician is seeking to leave behind the props and accessories of traditional wizardry for a more immediate and performative way of invocation.

God said let there be light, and that was that, right?

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>>18201582
Here's a step-by-step tutorial for conjuring magical energy, out of body experiences, seeing visions, and other things:

http://pastebin.com/CQEYn6Fy

>>18201699

It doesn't make sense to me. As simple as that. Even if you take away the anthropomorphism of God, demons, and angels - invoking them to make more money, or improve the small things in my life seems stupid.

I think there is a god, but it's more like the Tao.

>>18201704
>I think in this way the chaos magician is seeking to leave behind the props and accessories of traditional wizardry for a more immediate and performative way of invocation.
I suppose there is something to that. If we're being honest a lot of what constitutes ritual magic is just arcane (in the literal sense) tradition in a way. The sword and dagger for instance, have been a staple of this sort of stuff for a long time, and for what? Swords didn't exist until man made them, unless you take into account the theory of forms or something, but that's way off topic.

I suppose there is some credence to the thought, though the lack of longevity doesn't give chaos magic any real weight in the eyes of most occultists. It might as well be new age crystal healing to 'em. Why use chaos magic when abrahamic prayer exists, for instance?

If it's to avoid personifying the deity and taking sides to a certain degree then why not adopt your own process? Though, that's what chaos magic is all about, eh? You can explain away most stuff with 'it just werks'.

>>18201582
If you want to learn about and practice chaos magic go to /pol/

>>18201681
Oh, you're a wordy retard. Okay.

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>>18201745
4chan is an 18+ site, kiddo.

>>18201738
If you want to practice confirmation bias. Check out one of the longer meme magick threads sometime. Count the number of dubs posts and non-dubs posts, and compare the two. There is 1 dub for every 11 posts, so you'll find this number close to that ratio (sometimes it differs due to this being a probability.) In these threads idiots will be freaking out about how many dubs there are.

And that is today's lesson in idiot magick.

>>18201753
>I can defend my point of view so its good.
Die in a fire, retard. You will sooner or later.

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>>18201760

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>>18201766
When you question the magickal abilities of the puffed-up egomaniac Master Wizard the result is narcissistic rage.

>>18201779
>i can use language so listen to me not him

>>18201779
I never even defended the lvl 99 magic wizard desu. I even said he deludes himself. The real question is why would anyone take a book from 800 years ago seriously, and then go out to find reagents that haven't been a cultural mainstay in just as long. Chaos magic looks enticing in comparison, OP is a good example.

I'm purely neutral in this, brah.

>>18201788

OP here, I appreciate your position and agree with it.

Stop feeding the trolls though.

>>18201788
I have your same outlook except I'm poor and I have gotten results with just burning drawn on paper to the tune of hundreds of dollars so all these people saying chaos magick is somehow lower sound just like foxes who can't reach the grapes to me. People with no inborn talent that think that talent doesn't exist.

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>>18201757
Idiots freaking about about probability have nonetheless propelled their god into the public consciousness, though

How many succubi have you summoned?

>>18201806
>Implying that is at all meaningful.

You should reevaluate your emotional, intellectual, and existential investments.

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>>18201815
>So butthurt over not being able to summon a succubus he completely disregards /pol/'s achievement.

>>18201830
kuk is just an egregore desu. about as amazing as the flying spaghetti monster.

pretty fun to watch though.

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>>18201839
From what I gather an egregore has no effect outside of the mentality of it's group, so in which case the achievements of Kek would in fact be a materialization of groups perception of reality

>>18201856
I love the rotting trash and soda bottles.

>>18201856
All deities start off as an egregore before people read too much into events that they attribute to that deity, at which point reality owes something to that deity.

Kuk existed in egyptian mythology as a sort of sub-god to their pantheon and was rarely mentioned. So there was already divinity there. If it has really been returned by this sudden worship, then that means all egyptian mythology beyond egregores are material 'gods', no?

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>>18201830
Get schooled child and learn of how insignificant your frog and /pol/ truly is.

The truth of your Kek is that he is a mental parasite that culturally evolved to be highly contagious to emotionally troubled NEETs, and you and /pol/ are just memetic bug catchers. This is just the buzzing of flies to the continent-sized cultural entities that truly rule. You think you can possibly fight them with frog pics, truly delusions of grandeur.

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>>18201872
It could be the case that it is a separate deity that decided to masquerade as the Egyptian deity Kek in order to make it seem more credible, or because it could foresee events and chose the frog god as a proper form for an image board with the a popular frog meme that could be used as a popular, diverse, and easy invocation sigil.

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>>18201904
Memetic creationism, literally.

The cause is cultural evolution. Memes that are good at reproducing are more fit and reproduce more. These memes combine (breed) with other memes and become even better at being reproduced. Over thousands of generations of this, you get Kek.

You're worshiping the parasite that has infested your mind, which is exactly what it "wants" - it doesn't actually have agency, this feature is the result of memetic selection, it implants the belief in your mind and encourages you to replicate it, exactly as you are now.

>Worshipping a meme god.
>Not even having the most basic knowledge of memes.

Good job, mindcuck.

>>18201582
Im pretty much the same way, so i started studying runic magic alongside typical jewfag magic. U can also practice energy working with the greek elements, or oriental elements if you're a weaboo.

>>18201894

That pic was an amazing read.

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>>18201894
You, your image and it's pessimism are truly unworthy of claiming to be redpilled.

Fuck living inside the prison, we manipulate reality to break the current system and build a new one from the best of the old ashes, using the mass knowledge of the digital age to do our best to ensure that the issues plaguing our society today are not present in the new world.

We have all seen horrible things and know the nature of man and his worlds,with the accumulation of knowledge from all walks of life we shall have our most effective shot at making a better future for humanity than in the history of the world.

It won't be perfect, as nothing can truly avert the way of man without overreaching itself and spiraling into destruction, but it would be a fools gambit to say that we will not do our best to try.

Our goals are not of delusional grandeur, but of determined and experienced optimism for a better future.

Should we need to invoke an eldritch deity in order to reach those ideals then that shall be our destiny, should it betray us we will fight back, should it aid us we shall support it, and should it leave we will remember fondly the aid of our compatriot from elsewhere.

We are not delusional, simply determined.

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>>18201924

I don't mind giving energy to Kek, It's like in DBZ when everyone had to raise their hands in the air and give goku their energy so he could defeat buu.

Also the Ogdoad hung out with Thoth before the universe existed, if someone's cool enough to hang with Thoth, that's good enough for me. Thoth knows what's up, in fact he's the god of knowing what's up, with everything.

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>>18201924
>Trying to subvert the power of a deity brought into power by its followers by using basic mind games

No parasite infects the mind of those who made it, if it goes against our wishes we end it, as that is how a creation works.

If I decide I like ice cream and many others do as well, then is the love of ice cream a parasite infecting our minds?

>>18201946
"Fight the Powah!" memes like yours are especially viral. Most people realize that society is corrupt, and seek to identify causes, scapegoat those causes, and attack those easy scapegoats thinking it'll cure the ills. The actual cause isn't bad actors but the whole entire mass of the system. These "Fight the Powah" memes are then recouperated back into the very disease it attempts to cure, for example the fixation on Trump, as if politics matters. Optimism is also great for exploitation: if you are able to peddle hope, you will attract the attention of millions (see Obama.)

If you truly wish to fight with every essence of your being, you cannot be on /pol/ snowballing memes back and forth. You have to go to the sauce. You have to read. Start with where the word "meme" originated: The Selfish Gene.

>>18201894
Is this text from a book? If so, I'd be interested to check it out

>>18201942

Got any links? Video and audio preferred - I don't have much time to read.

>>18201966
Ah the illusion of agency when one's agency has been subverted. See: >>18201894

>>18201962
>using a children's cartoon to analogize sociopolitics.

I mean really?

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>>18201989
It's not necessarily about fighting powers that be, we want them to fall so we can make a civilization untouched by them, and be all the better for it.

While the delusion people have of voting for the right candidate to fix things is common, it is simply not true. You cant fix the walls of your house from the inside, except in this world you can't leave the house, so your only option is to have a hurricane blow it down.

We're simply helping a god make the hurricane.

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This was a good thread until Kek was mentioned.

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>>18202003
>You can't win so just give up, your too weak, you have no agency.

Pessimistic subhuman trying to make himself feel better by using false claims to make those inclined to succeed question themselves.

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>>18202016
Kek is a really good example of modern chaos magick at work.

>>18202000
Sure, for runes i recommend furthark by Thorsson, and sunnyway.com.

>>18202026

To me, it's realism and not pessimism. The idea is simple - think for yourself. I have been this way for a long time, that's why I started this thread.

>>18202010
This system of systems is too big to fail. Think of how interconnected everything is, what food chains rely on, electricity, everything. If the system collapses millions, perhaps billions will die. It is economic mutually assured destruction. The entire world is its hostage, it has achieved the ultimate wish of a parasite: it cannot be extracted without killing its host. It isn't zero-sum logic, I win or you lose, or vice versa, it's nonzero: either I lose and you lose, or I win and you lose less. We're all in this together.

More on this:

https://vimeo.com/124736839

https://vimeo.com/127098837

https://vimeo.com/129609470

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>>18202043
Thinking for yourself is what drove the whole Kek community, they realized a way out and are taking it, the system that you believe controls everything and rules all is not as powerful as they want you to believe, yet you are walking right into their hands.

In 1984 the party wins against Winston because they make him believe they are too powerful to be beaten, you are falling into the same trap.

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>>18202003

>going on /x/ and not knowing the illuminate card, 9/11 predictions

Lurk more

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>>18202049
World destruction is the goal. A house cannot be fixed from the inside.

Many will die, but there will also be survivors, and they will be those strong enough to build the new and better world.

>>18202000
A reletively short paper titled magical theory and tradition by marcus cordey is a nice, concise paper that lays out a very good summary of magic in theory and practice throughout history.

>>18202062
I never would have suspected that the Pentagon, the headquarters of the Department of Defense, would ever be considered as a possible military target in fiction, especially considering how iconic and recognizable it is.

Truly it must be the work of the iluminary planning 9/11 and putting it into a card game for some reason. Thanks for the info anon.

>>18202000
I also reccomend the common book of witchcraft and wicca, although its feminized to the point of stupidity and contains little practical aspects, it does consolidate generic beliefs among wiccan pagans which are helpful to know if you interact with them at all.

>>18202068
Yes, I know, I've known for years, the goal is to conjure the apocalypse. There have been many such apocalypse-driven movements in history. Did you know that ISIS is one such as well?

All of it is like the yapping of a chihuahua to a Great Dane. Such a thing goes against all of the most basic urges of these systems: survival. So they would collectively push back and crush against anything that is a legitimate threat. Frog Fan club is nothing to this.

>>18202000
There were a few good books that explained aspects of the hebrew tree of life, and went into the creation of thoughtforms and servitors a bit. I don't remember what they were called but i copied down a few pages from them.
For more ceremonial magics u can look into the sacred magic of abremilen the mage. Serves as a great intro to ceremonial magic even if you never do the rituals in it.

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>>18202083

Seriously lurk more.

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>>18202100
We do not wish to conjure an apocalypse for an apocalypses case itself, we wish a destruction of current civilized society in order to build a new one.

They do not like this and They are fighting back.

>ISIS is an Islamic movement dedicated to establishing a worldwide caliphate as their holy book the Quran dictates them to.

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>>18202100
>ISIS is a doomsday group
Excuse me? Have you even read the Quran?
They are by no means a doomsday cult, just one that likes to do a lot of murdering.

>>18202000
I also reccomend the vids by Mr. Become A Living Meme aka EA Koetting. He basically just summarizes techniques from a bunch of other traditions and generalizes them. Also his grimoires are great for starting if you don't want to worry about accidentally summoning satan or starting ww4.

>>18202114
>we wuz apocalyptic horsemen n shit.

Brain damaged from way too much anime. Can't tell fantasy from reality. Prognosis: doublecucked.

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>>18202129
>Literally missing the point.

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>>18202129

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>>18201715
Don't forget about this post which will teach you real magic.

>>18201799
>>18201582
I'd recommend Bardon but the namefags would storm in and ruin the thread even further. They _really, really_ hate conversation about him.

>>18203989
>They _really, really_ hate conversation about him.

Why would they hate a deadbeat like Bardon? I laugh my ass off every time he's mentioned. He's the guru /x/ deserves.

daily reminder magic is not real, youre deluding yourself

>>18204011

Daily reminder that you aren't real, either.

>>18201582
Read Peter Carroll's books and ignore the faggot posers ITT

>>18204101

Babbie's first magic book.

>>18201681
And yet the magic will happen for both of them just the same.

Are you just butthurt you lose all that time doing boilerplate meaningless shit instead of real magick?

>>18201715
Jesus

>>18201802
Underrated post. I too have got sweet results with just sigils and made up mudras.

Although I am interested in evokation, but it's more of an academic interest. Sigils are really all you need if you just want material manifestation.

>>18201856
Where can I buy that deck?

>>18204107
>And yet the magic will happen for both of them just the same.

Unlikely. Not all systems or approaches are equally efficacious.

>Are you just butthurt you lose all that time doing boilerplate meaningless shit instead of real magick?

Just another lost soul hoping to be heard.

>>18201894
>someone from /fringe/ lecturing us about being emotionally troubled

I feel for you lot, I really do

>>18204120
>Sigils are really all you need if you just want material manifestation.

And if you don't need any control of the result.

>>18201924
Memetic EVOLUTION, literally

You LITERALLY defined evolution, not creationism. Retard.

>>18204103
Precisely what OP needs right now.

>>18204134
Prove that you aren't talking just from a place of prejudice. Give me concrete examples of your point please.

>>18204156

Nah. Carroll's kind of a joke. Hine's nice, though:

http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/index_e-books.html

>>18204160

Prove that you're worthy of my time.

>>18204134
>I have no talent so no one has talent
Sour grapes.

>>18204181

Heh. I have a great deal of talent, actually.

So, you really don't know about the limits of chaos magic? Still living under a rock?

>>18204186
You're full of shit.

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>>18204173
Both of the posts you're responding to there are mine. So apparently I am.

>>18204173
I'll check Hine out, thanks.

I was asking for real, but you seem like a prejudiced poser to me now, so forget about it.

>>18204107
see >>18201788

>>18204107
>And yet the magic will happen for both of them just the same.
>boilerplate meaningless shit instead of real magick
>will happen for both of them just the same.
>real magick
you just immediately contradicted yourself bro. define 'real magick' if they both end with the same result. just the one with the least effort?

>>18204263

Command and control structures are baked into ceremonial work. That's handy and to replicate it using sigils and the like is going to take time and energy. Even if successful, you're still reinventing the wheel.

Chaos magic works well for some things, for others not so much. That to me is limitation.

You seem to be full of knowledge but seriously lack understanding. I'd advise you get around more basic (warning, simple can be very hard) ways of thinking. See zen buddhism in general, practise yoga and meditation more often and maybe read some of RAW's work. Also do hallucinogenics.

Also be prepared to drop your current approach on the subject. You're not gonna go far that way.

>>18204420
>Also be prepared to drop your current approach on the subject. You're not gonna go far that way.

Why is that? Just curious.

Also, what is RAW?

>>18204469

Robert Anton Wilson

>>18201715
>http://pastebin.com/CQEYn6Fy
>To "activate your third eye" grab a pencil and point it at your forehead, just above the brow, almost touching the skin.

LOL

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>>18204929
I have been to the beach once, and it was to gamble. No mussels for me.

There is neoplatonism. I'm only in the very beginning phase of looking into this after facing something like dead ends in eastern mysticism and westernized qabbala - and by this I mean I got to the point of starting to learn sanskrit and hebrew but being unable to muster up the motivation, since I kept coming back to explaining and conceptualizing the things in tantra or QBL through either theosophy or hermeticism.

Anyone here into neoplatonism or hermeticism? Any good books, with an emphasis on philosophy and cosmology? I read things like M.P. Hall and Bardon so far, right now I'm really more interested in the spiritual hierarchies in the systems rather than ritual.

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>>18204958
But it for the simple pleasure of this, it is this that makes it childish.

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>>18204984
How does that explain to me that you have the ability to understand and comprehend a paradox?

>criticizing chaos magick
>instead of retarded chaotes
guys it's 2016

>>18204420
Thanks for getting this back on topic.
>>18201582
Look at it through a Jungian Perspective. Using Archetypyes, The Unconscious and Constructs of such and Ritual Magick will make more sense. There is a modern lens of viewing the ritual as a theatrical way of organizing the mind through consciousness and using this to cause change through Will. Modern thought on Magick can be Positivist, Naturalistic, Atheistic, whatever. It's why it's classified as an Art and Science. Crowley and Regardie really grounded Magick and demystified it. We have Jung to thank for influence of the lens many view the Modern Occult through. If Theatrics and tradition aren't your thing and you get results from Chaos Magick good on you, but having some traditional knowledge and wisdom under your belt wouldn't hurt.

>>18204298
Makes sense. Thanks for that insight.

I'm new into "magic", and I started with Evola's and UR group, "introduction to magic". So far, it looks rather advanced for me, even though I'm liking the different essays and the "philosophy" behind it.

What is your opinion on Evola's teachings?

>>18205027

Pretty much this.

>>18205567

You're welcome.

>>18206234

Fascist bastard.

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>Chaos Magick
>Think that you can control chaos

How can Chaofags be so completely unaware of what chaos is?

>>18207598

Why comment on chaos magic when you are unaware of what it is?

Chaos is complete unpredictability. Chaos is effects being greater than their causes and unpredictable by those causes. It is wholes being greater than the sum of their parts. It is growth, life, destruction, and death.

Hay guys let's ignore a sublime truth about how the universe works in favor of fiddling with something as trivial as belief.

Real chaos magick doesn't seek to do. Fuck doing. Doing doing doing doing that's all mechanist dofags want to do. Chaos magick is about being.

Every chaos "mage" I've met has been either a Cartesian dualist or a reductionist materialist, which is as funny as it gets.

>>18207608
>>18207606
Well timed

>>18207608
it gets better when you meet people who judge a magical system based on practitioners of it who they met

>>18207619
see >>18205027

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>>18207619
I'm judging it both on its practitioners and its "teachings," young'un, as well as its history. It bastardizes the concept of chaos to make itself look hip and cool. OoooOOooo I can be a creative speshul snowflake and kitbash magick that's truly about ME ME ME ME ME ME I I I I I I I.

Even the chaos star is a special snowflake. Chexmix, chaotists.

>>18206234

OP here, I'm not familiar with his work.

OP again, I just want to clarify how I ended up getting into magic:

>Be atheist
>Always interested in mythology, paranormal, occult, etc.
>Learn about Taoism and Buddhism and follow it philosophically
>Learn about Thomas Campbell and watch hours of his videos
>I think there is something bigger than us, but not a "god" who is benevolent or malevolent
>More like an i different creator, a watchmaker
>Get to understand magic theory, but don't have pure faith in the entities invoked
>I understand that if I don't really believe everything, I won't get results
>Make this thread and immediately regret ever mentioning chaos magic.

Is there a non specific magic system that doesn't invoke spirits, but rather calls to the universe itself? That's more of what I'm looking for.

>>18207606
>Chaos is complete unpredictability.

What is bounded chaos, Alex?

>>18207648
>I understand that if I don't really believe everything, I won't get results

Where in the hell do you get this?

>Is there a non specific magic system that doesn't invoke spirits

Where's the fun in that?

>>18207648
Start by reading Advanced Magick for Beginners by Alan Chapman. I think that might help you figure out what magic is all about and how you can figure out what will work best for you. Magic is a combination of a personal culture and a revelatory system. From there, try Frater UD's Practical Sigil Magick, try some of that, and then go on to one of the elementary occult reading lists that are out there.

>>18207648
Why do you think there's a watchmaker? The universe is not a machine. It is like an organism, but this is only an analogy due to the way the universe works having given rise to life. The universe is being.

The truth of all life having a common ancestor is profoundly spiritual to me. It is a unification of descent, but we are also unified horizontally: intertwined in an unimaginably complex web of being in each moment all the way back to this first ancestor. The ground and sky has been profoundly sculpted by life, and life by it. From a completely natural view, Earth is holy.

It is the same on the cosmological scale. All being has a common ancestor, the first moment of being. There was no being before being, which is reflected in the equations around the Big Bang: time simply disappears at a point back in time, ceases to be.

Consider who you are. You are not your brain, because your brain in inextricably connected to the rest of your body, and you experience "yourself" as your whole body. But you do not just experience your body, but being immersed in the rest of the world, your experience of everything "outside yourself" is an inextricable part of you. The boundary is illusory, this is what "oneness" is. We are not IN nature, like a bubble in water, we are nature. This is what Carl Sagan meant by saying "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."

This is the spirituality of naturalism.

>>18207650
>Where in the hell do you get this?

Various online sources and books.

>Where's the fun in that?

Fun isn't what I'm after.

>>18207684

I get this. The watchmaker was alluding to the fact that if there is a god, I believe it to be indifferent rather than benevolent or malevolent. Not a literal watchmaker.

>>18207648
Atheist or Deist make up your mind, lol. You also ignored my post, good stuff to put things into perspective. >>18205100

>>18207684
>There was no being before being

Actually, that is a contested interpretation of the Big-Bang.

>>18207685
>Various online sources and books.

Cite some of these sources and books, please, and we'll sort out where this is coming from.

>Fun isn't what I'm after.

Enjoy your misery and boredom, then.

>>18207688

There is no need to pose the existence of such a being. The universe, as observed, does not require it.

>>18207626
what a way to show ignorance
are you a butthurt thelecuck or what

>>18207735

So, you got nothing.

>>18207751
so just like you
oh wait no
I actually have my results

>>18207760

lel

I can't help but notice that all the best points in this thread haven't been addressed.

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>>18207760
You have your delusions of grandeur, jenkum-huffer.

Think you have power -> ego boost -> Think you have more power -> even greater ego boost -> to the fucking moon.

Works every time. "Using belief as a tool." Using delusion and egotism as a drug, morelike.

Stop sniffing your own fumes.

>>18207866

Well said.

>>18207866
Also now in the form of an entertaining 3.6 minute movie clip featuring Robin Williams as the floating head of a lunar monarch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUs27nDc5NI

>>18207887

A personal fav. There's surprising wisdom in that movie.

>>18207866
pretty ironic and hilarious how you of all people in this thread bring up ego

seriously, are you a thelemite?

why do you care so much and keep shitting on other practitioners? are you insecure? lacking results? mad because some retarded system fooled you into believing that more structure equals more power and there's no need to put any effort into your work because lol someone clever created this insanely complicated ritual so it must work? or are you just another buttblasted skeptic?

inba assumptions
in very curious about why are you so very, very upset
if my ego is showing here, yours is screaming

>>18208018
>seriously, are you a thelemite?

Unlikely.

>>18201704
It really, really doesn't work this way. Doing this will produce less results and you can't shoot into the dark hoping you'll hit something good. Things require a certain precision, a skilled mind who knows what he's doing, otherwise you could be channeling God knows where.

You could even accidentally channel a demon. This is just a lazy way of approaching magic, and you'll never get far. The real, godlike magic will always be just a fanciful dream. If the powers of reality were so easily manipulated, then the Satanic Elite would have accomplished what they set out to do so long ago.

But in as much effort into it and expect the results to be the same. That works both ways, for the duteous and the lazy.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtform
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurolinguistic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_semantics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_map_is_not_the_territory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeticism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mind
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homunculus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_theater
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind-body_dichotomy

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...consciously manifested...mental free associations...morphed ontologically with magick then echoed back thru the logos into the creators reality tunnel...

ontological morphing
John Nash type red tie crazy
simple mental free associations consciously manifested
it is then reinforced with ritual ideally evoking physiologic response from the thoughtforms creator

things will begin to manifest themselves related to the thoughtform without the concentration and elbow grease or making your mind go almost insane
normal reality will begin to do what the concentration and elbow grease and making your mind go almost insane was doing ontologically morphing your reality tunnel

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You need to be versed in Robert Anton Wilson's work to start to understand what ontologically morphing your reality tunnel means.
Its about general semantics and the blending of esoteric occultism
Alfred Korzybski can explain the general semantics with Robert Anton Wilson explaining the blending of esoteric occultism with ontology

Non-Aristotelian logic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aristotelian_logic

Alfred Korzybski
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Korzybski

General Semantics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_semantics

Guerrilla Ontology
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_ontology

Strange loop
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_loop

>>18208146
>Alfred Korzybski can explain the general semantics

Science and Sanity, is a good read.

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Austin Osman Spare

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Osman_Spare

In an occult capacity, he developed idiosyncratic magical techniques based on his theories of the relationship between the conscious and unconscious self

...a form, style, or school of magic inspired by Spare. It focuses on one's individual universe and the influence of the magician's will on it...

Spare was often described as "down-to-earth" by friends, who often made note of his kindness. Throughout his life, Spare was an animal lover, taking care of any animals that he found near his home. He was a member of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (RSPCA), and in many photographs can be seen wearing his RSPCA badge

>>18201582

Start off small with things like coin tricks and the basic card tricks. Practice them a lot in front of your friends and family. Once you get good at them then go out to the bar and try to impress strangers. Eventually you'll get discovered and be a smokey eyed faggot on some cable network doing street magic where you pull an Ace of Spades out of the hot-dog stand man's buttcrack, and it will scare fat black women into hysteria. That will be popular for a little bit and then you'll vanish back into obscurity unless you can do better tricks that will get you booked in Vegas.

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Reality is at a very deep level a set of interrelated and self-referential symbols. We interpret these symbols and therefore explore reality linked to a set of codes, not all of them are conscious. Some codes have a stronger claim than other. We interpret gravity according to a set of formal codes that clearly and reliably predict its behaviour. Many other codes are less reliable such as those connected to our day to day lives. Changing those codes makes us see things in a different way because we bring new symbols in contact with us. The semiotic theory of magic states that a person is able to effect communication in their universe by changing the symbols they interact with. The magickian seeks either a psychological change within themselves or an environmental change by changing their cultural coded symbols. As Philip K. Dick reminds us, “the linking and unlinking of objects is actually a language”.

>>18208018
Jenkum poster here. I am not a Thelemite, Crowley was a jenkum-huffer par excellence. I have results but they are internal and directed only internally.

Seeking to get external results through magic, even supposedly beneficent ones, is performing black magic and does nothing external. It however does do something internal: it rots you in such ways as I described.

You only need to look next door at /pol/ and it's silly "meme magick" to see the extent of the soul-rot possible.

>>18208199
>Seeking to get external results through magic, even supposedly beneficent ones, is performing black magic and does nothing external. It however does do something internal: it rots you in such ways as I described.
>You only need to look next door at /pol/ and it's silly "meme magick" to see the extent of the soul-rot possible.

You're way over your head, kid.

>>18208174
This is no different than the most hardcore universe-as-machine paradigm. In fact it's actually the same, only the proposed gears are different.

Twiddling with their toes, fiddling with their codez.

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>>18208202
Cool vague meaningless condescending statement, bro.

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The Art of Magick and the Magick of Art - Miles Hingston

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1wxZMk5Isg&list=PLvQV7gqXryR0vFRThNnvyeqOdzHbUq0nI

As mentioned previously, our brains are all about finding and decoding patterns, we are designed to think symbolically. Consider then that as children we have been taught what symbols to use to construct our model of the World. We are taught how to “spell”, or rather be put under the spell of language

Words are also symbols, when we think about things we are really thinking about the construction and interaction of various symbols, it is a code. This is the foundation of magical practice, language is an esoteric science first and foremost

>>18208199
>Seeking to get external results through magic, even supposedly beneficent ones, is performing black magic and does nothing external.

Just because you don't have tangible results doesn't mean that no one does. That's silly and self-serving.

>>18208202

Indeed.

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>>18208217
>>18208202
Hear me now and remember when you regain consciousness: it is you who is in over your head.

I could give either one of you the alchemical formula for super-jenkum. It bonds thought to pleasure absolutely. What happens is that the huffer's thoughts roil as he searches for the thoughts and beliefs that make him feel best, his ecstasy increasing rumination by rumination. Paradigms shift, even his self-identity shifts, all in the purpose of getting ever higher. It's no different from a heroin addict. Eventually he reaches the peak, complete psychosis and ever-shifting delusions, and ends up in the psych ward. Eventually his brain burns through its supply of feel-good chemicals the mind makes, and the resulting withdrawal is a nightmare.

I could, but I won't, because either of you would invariably use it with the same outcome. It is only given to black magicians who pose a significant threat to others. It doesn't work on those who are emotionally dead or near, though. Neither of you are close to qualifying, you are utterly insignificant, damaging only yourselves.

>>18208267
Thanks for sharing your nervous breakdown on 4chan, i guess?

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Art of Magic Part 1 by College Girl. What is Real Magic?

https://youtu.be/d8T5tSBGYmw

Art of Magic Part 2 by College Girl. Five Elements of Magic

https://youtu.be/QIiKHSmXM5k

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The Great Work (0 - Prologue - The Science of the Secret)

https://youtu.be/WOjPyNLvpA4

>>18208274
If you are not aware of the risk of psychosis from chaos magick you are either ignorant or willingly spreading disinformation.

Read again. It's the tenants of chaos magick refined. And indeed, it is chaotic. Why would you expect any other outcome?

>Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

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Plane of Material
youtu.be/hr5BwTVPYwA
Plane of Mental
youtu.be/83oTRusr7LU
Plane of Emotional
youtu.be/JDRTZ1ibpPk
Plane of Will
youtu.be/zwMiqwwl-gQ
Quintessence
youtu.be/7MJZLuwwX9E

The Western Mystery Traditions enable one to accomplish this magnificent task have always been hidden in plain sight, inaccessible to all but the most ardent scholars and practitioners.

The Symbols have always held the Key

To be efficient and proficient at The Great Work, one must develop a broad understanding of the meaning of symbols and archetype

The series provides elaborates on how these symbols

• Work by themselves
• Work together
• And how the various western symbol systems fit into a unified whole.

Magickal Thinking is the result.

The Great Work series does not offer fixed ideas but is rather a training in new ways to think in order that you may derive fruitful meaning, and know the deeper spiritual reality that extends beyond pure reason and the physical sciences

...The series is a must for serious students...

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You don't understand Officer, I'm in perfect communion with Eris!

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Alchemy

Solve Et Coagula - The Great Work of Alchemy
youtu.be/711GUvU06eY

Exploring The Hermetic Tradition (Terence McKenna)
youtu.be/6FdpzXcNuH4

Hermeticism & Alchemy (Terence McKenna)
youtu.be/-YNdBpYh1eA

Hermetism, Gnosticism, & Neoplatonism. Doctrines of Hermes Trismegistus
youtu.be/AS8QL5crSHE

In Our Time - History of Alchemy
youtu.be/UgwyVqEGj1k

Melvyn Bragg and guests discuss the history of Alchemy, the ancient science of transformations. The most famous alchemical text is the Emerald Tablet, written around 500BC and attributed to the mythical Egyptian figure of Hermes Trismegistus. Among its twelve lines are the essential words - “as above, so below".

With Peter Forshaw, Lecturer

>>18208265

>>18208329
>Terence Mckena
>Melvyn Bragg
>Peter Forshaw

Do not taint alchemy with these new age hacks.

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There is another way, Anon: seek inner balance and harmony. Through this you will find balance and harmony with the world around you.

This is the way of white magick.

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Inside the Bibliotheca Philosophica Hermetica - Amsterdam - The J.R. Ritman Hermetic Library

youtu.be/43yhlcy59lw

Conference 'Around 1600': E. Ritman and P. Forshaw - Infinitie Fire Interview Series

youtu.be/ScQT7ZP8Wwo

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technoccult.net/archives/2010/10/21/lost-alan-moore-essay-on-magic/

An essay on magic by Alan Moore originally meant for Joel Biraco‘s KAOS 15 has finally seen the light of day

>>18208267

What a silly person.

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Regard the world of magic. A scattering of occult orders which, when not attempting to disprove each other’s provenance, are either cryogenically suspended in their ritual rut, their game of Aiwaz Says, or else seem lost in some Dungeons & Dragons sprawl of channelled spam, off mapping some unfalsifiable and thus completely valueless new universe before they’ve demonstrated that they have so much as a black-lacquered fingernail’s grip on the old one. Self-consciously weird transmissions from Tourette’s-afflicted entities, from glossolalic Hammer horrors. Fritzed-out scrying bowls somehow receiving trailers from the Sci-Fi channel. Far too many secret chiefs, and, for that matter, far too many secret indians.

Beyond this, past the creaking gates of the illustrious societies, dilapidated fifty-year-old follies where they start out with the plans for a celestial palace but inevitably end up with the Bates Motel, outside this there extends the mob. The psyche pikeys. Incoherent roar of our hermetic home-crowd, the Akashic anoraks, the would-be wiccans and Temple uv Psychic Forty-Somethings queuing up with pre-teens for the latest franchised fairyland, realm of the irretrievably hobbituated. Pottersville

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The path is easy. Focus all your intent, the essence of your soul into finding inner harmony. This is the entirety of the spell. Your mind will follow the direction your soul has set, in the ways best for you. No further guidance is needed than this.

The reward is true inner peace and an enjoyment of life you have never known, for if you had you would not be on the path you are on.

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A Practical Guide to a Magical Consciousness: Part 1 – Theory

http://weekinweird.com/2012/07/17/practical-guide-magical-consciousness-part-1/

Have you ever wanted to delve into the mysterious and often misunderstood world of the occult, but found yourself too intimidated by the sheer amount of seemingly differing opinions and lack of a clear starting point? Have you dabbled in the art of magick only to come up frustrated and empty handed? Perhaps you’re a skeptic or a tourist and you’ve just been curious as to how the whole process works...

You’re in luck! In this four part series, WF’s mysterious magic practitioner, S., is here to help guide you along the path toward a magical consciousness. Hopefully.
Part One: Theory and Practice

Being an autodidactic magician I realize how difficult or dismaying the first foray into the occult can be

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Intention - Do actions with intent and focus
Awareness - Be aware of your surroundings
Evocation - Have evocative responses to your surroundings through intent
Energize - Let your evocative intent awareness be psychosomatically energized through emotion response

>>18201717
https://www.thedivinescience.com/why-pursue-theurgy/

>>18204958
Uzdavinys is good.

>>18206234
Good book. Supposedly there are three volumes in Italian. I want someone to translate. Also check out Yoga of Power, Doctrine of Awakening, and The Hermetic Tradition.

>>18207700
>There is no need to pose the existence of such a being. The universe, as observed, does not require it.
What about the mind as observed?

>>18208482

What about it?

>>18208502
Emergence seems to bridge the theistic and atheistic perspectives on cosmic origin and the mysteries of mind lead many to lean theistic.

>>18208526

Emergence of what?

>>18208532
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence

>>18208536

I don't see it bridging any such thing. There's no compelling reason to pose the existence of god. It doesn't actually explain anything in want of explanation and any theistic model is going to be less likely than its rivals.

>>18202000
No video audio but Stephen Flowers as an alternative to thorsson.

>>18208544
Physics only explains so much. Eventually one must develop into metaphysics. Even the rejection of metaphysics is a metaphysical position. There are many compelling reasons to pose the existence of God.

>>18202121
ISIS are apocalypticist.

>>18208568
>Physics only explains so much.

It seems to adequately explain the origin of our universe, which is the topic under discussion.

>>18208580
The topic under discussion is magic. I brought up the complexity of the mind as a reason to believe in a creator. The emergence of consciousness remains a great mystery to us still and some of us, who have investigated this mystery, find a belief in a supreme being not unreasonable.

>>18208267
can confirm

practicing chaos magick caused me to come down with the memetic parasite that is known as schizophrenia

too much of that super jenkum

the high's not worth it, my friends

>>18208670

Nope. You were talking about cosmic origins. Science can handle that without god.

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>>18208726
You dropped this.

>>18208464
thanks for the advice. I'll check them out.

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>>18208670
Seek to understand biological evolution and natural history. Evolution is perfectly capable by itself.

What are you implying, anyways? That god magicked some apes that gave them magical consciousnesses?

Postulating a God brings in a whole lot more complexity.

>>18208818
How dare you deny the existence of m'cosmic waifu. *tips mitre*

>>18208670
This is also a God of the Gaps argument.
"I don't this Science can explain this therefore God."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

>>18208726
Mab doesnt even pretend to know or care what happened pre big bang. Like were did the matter come from, or the energy, or the sudden explosion, what was it confined within and how, what was before it exploded for some reason science seem to not care about, and those scientist who try figure it out end up at one conclusion. Intelligent design, god or not our universe was designed and is not just a coincidence

>>18208891
Honestly it works both ways, it's up in the air. You can't say it's scientific if it has yet to be proven by science. It's just the unknown and more than likely it has a scientific explanation. But you can't accredited it to science or God because neither have been able to explain it.

>>18208882
>What are you implying, anyways? That god magicked some apes that gave them magical consciousnesses?
Naw, man. God like put DMT in shrooms and then Lamarckian evolution happened.

i'm bored and don't want anything
can i use magic to find out what i want

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>>18208267
Pay attention, this is also known as Pandora's Box or pandemonium. It is very real.

Don't mess with chaos magick. EVER.

Holy fuck! Thank you a for your suggestions. How can I archive this thread so I can reference all the materials posted here?

>>18208882

>By itself

Explain how something can be by itself.

>>18209705
Yeah yeah evolution doesn't work by itself but is profoundly affected by the chemistry, atmosphere, and geology of the planet etc, and the planet is profoundly affected by etc etc.

You have a point?

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>>18209792
>unwilling to believe in the supernatural
>on a paranormal board

>>18202068
http://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/18174888/

This entire thread is just a bunch of opinions yelling at each other.

>My opinion is right because I'm so smart that I see through all the bullshit.

If any of you actually had any hard facts or incontrovertible truths, there would be no need to posture and argue. But there are none. So instead of bouncing ideas off of each other in order to further your own understanding, you all bicker like children, trying to make yourselves feel better/superior. Why? Because there is no truth to be found. At least not here, and not now.

I came to this thread hoping for some interesting intellectual debate, or at least a few stimulating theories and conjectures. What I got instead is the basest, most juvenile bickering I can imagine. You should all feel ashamed, but of course you won't. You'll just cast me down as the moron who "doesn't understand my great intellect."

Don't bother replying, I'm not coming back to this cesspool.

>>18208912
>Like were did the matter come from

Most -- all -- multiverse models assume there was something before the Big Bang.

>>18210908

lel

>>18204006
what exactly makes bardon a dead beat? And whose better to read?

>>18211883

Hyperbole.

Bardon sort of made up his system as he went along. That's fine, I suppose, but if someone later wants to work in the received hermetic traditions there is going to be a learning curve. It would be better to start somewhere with a firmer foundation in the western trads.

Israel Regardie is not a bad place to start. The Golden Dawn and its offshoots, heirs, and revivals, are probably the most successful faction of modern ritual magic. Regardie is a way into that mass of material. His, Twelve Steps to Spiritual Enlightenment, is probably a more solid starting point than Bardon.

In the interest of full disclosure, my line descends from Mathers and the Golden Dawn through Crowley. Naturally, I think his material superior, but even then I recommend it with some reservation. The broad outline of what Crowley suggested for his students is probably sound, but many of the exercises and such are outdated. We have better sources than he had.

>>18212014
Thanks, i'll look into those :D Most people on here either praise bardon to all hell and back or hate him and no one ever really explains why. So thanks

>>18212109

You're most welcome.

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>>18210357
>Being this new.
>Thinking that this board is only about the supernatural.
>Getting triggered because you want a safe space.

You dropped this.

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>>18212243
>being so uninformed and unintelligent as to not recognize the limits of science
>not having an open-mind about the possibilities of existence
>probably browses reddit and science meme pages

>>18208084
Are not there also fools that have success in magic but are largely ignorant to how it works? In that sense, their pure ignorant belief in getting what they desire is powerful enough for them.

And surely for those who believe or rather disbelieve in the existence of demons, how would they even find a way, energetically, to summon one?

I think when you start opening this box of rituals which includes demons and so on, then you are also bringing them to life. But without opening the box, could they really have any sort of existence to that person?

Rituals are just tools to enhance concentration and intention. The primary force is intent, and in its purest form needs no tools. But humans largely are unable to have pure intent because society teaches them a specific world view which serves as a template for their life and largely limited their imagination and magick capability. In a way, rituals and disciplines are also a limiting templates, but perhaps may serve to ease one out of the more limited everyday societal paradigm.

Whereas perhaps chaos magick presumes that it can transcend those limitations of belief and act from pure intent. I'm sure it's possible but then again, what kind of person is that who doesn't actually need rituals anymore? Probably not your typical armchair chaos magician.

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Yeah, ritual magic is kind of boring for me. I've been meaning to look more into the magic of cunning men and women.

>>18201604

The very ideas that chaos magic somehow makes you ignore other sorts of magic or that "believing real hard" is a necessary, integral part of it to the exclusion of anything else, are gross and undocumented oversimplifications.

If the average "chaos dude" as you call them shares those prejudices with you, it's neither my fault nor yours, but entirely their own.

>>18201582
You should start going to the gym if you're going to RP, no RP girls find fat/skinnyfat Roleplayers attractive. If you want to bang the girls that dress up and " practice magick " you'll need to be swole and have a little game.

>>18210908
>I came to this thread hoping for some interesting intellectual debate
>intellectual debate
>on 4chan
top kek

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>>18210908
>Don't bother replying, I'm not coming back to this cesspool.
Can I have your Pepes?

>>18212283
>>Being this mindcucked.

Tell me, do you believe in God? Do you experience God? Describe this experience.

>>18207684

You got any recommended books about it ?

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>>18202058
whoa it all makes sense now.

>>18202058

agree

>>18210908
titled

>>18201582
If you think you're smart enough to choose what parts of religion you believe, why don't you make your own magic you retard.

>>18201681
>10 minutes
>afternoon

>>18212347
>Rituals are just tools to enhance concentration and intention.

Meh.

>Whereas perhaps chaos magick presumes that it can transcend those limitations of belief and act from pure intent.

Chaos magicians presume a lot, often comically so.

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Is acting deliberately against the compulsion of an OCD comparable to casting a detrimental spell over you?

>>18216187
Do you have OCD? I think I can help you find balance. Real results, no beliefs, no chains.

>>18215036
This. Chaos is a lot about doing it in your own ways.

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There are two modes of the mind: Being and Doing. You are so good at the doing mode that it has consumed you, you most likely have high analytical intelligence. Being and Doing are like two different reference frames of change over time. With Doing, time is the reference frame, the present doesn't exist and is only a mental construct, it is only a part of the arrow of time - only the past and future exists. In a graph of change over time the present is a dot that moves along the line of time. With being, the present is all that exists, the past and future are mental constructs. There is the present and change around it. In a graph of change over time the point of the moment is fixed and the line of time moves around it.

The Being mode is the Western focus: mechanistic and hyper-logical, Doing is Eastern: holistic and relational. They are not opposites, but complimentary sides of the force of change that binds everything together. You must seek balance of them.

To be consumed by the dark side is to be consumed by doing, the future and past become real in your mind even though they are just thoughts. You experience toxic regret in the past by engaging in mental time-travel, re-living what you think are failures time and time again, suffering from them. You think of the future with anxiety, anticipating what may happen fearing what may happen. Although this is just a prediction they become real to you, and create the same fear as if they were real. Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

The solution for you is to cultivate the mental mode of being by being mindful of being. Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy will cure all your ills, of this I have no doubt. Focus your obsessive nature on it, and you will be on your way to transforming what has become a curse into your greatest strength. Seek out therapists that practice this, or better yet group sessions where it is practiced by an experienced teacher.

>>18216401

I'm not that guy but, I could use some advice maybe. I've been depressed and have social anxiety, for so long I wondered what was wrong and that image he posted really hit home for me.

>>18216468
>The Being mode is the Western focus
> Doing is Eastern

Are you sure about that

>>18216485

What you want is >>18216485

Depression and anxiety are part of the same underlying malady as OCD: always ruminating, always anticipating, always doing. Doing has become your being. Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy works incredibly well on depression and social anxiety. I had these to extremes when I myself first began, suicidal depression and social anxiety so much that even grocery shopping was almost unbearable, and in only 3 weeks they vanished completely. It was like waking up from a waking daydream, and what replaced it was a serene calm and a profound sense of relief from the unbearable burdens I had on myself.

>>18216507
Mixed them up. Doing is Western and Being is Eastern.

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Do not listen to Yoda. What you want is power. The dark side of the Force offers unimaginable power. You can use your emotions to achieve victory. The weak will be destroyed by this and the strong will endure, as it should be. You are weak. There is a huge gap between intention and action. You know you must do something, but you do not do it. You must discipline yourself through doing, chain passion to reason so you can wield it with all its force. There is only one question: do you want to be a master or a slave?

The method to achieve this is to push out emotion and convince yourself to do as your will wills. Procure a notebook. Do not use a computer, it must be in pen and paper. Write down a problem, such as something you know you need to do, or a negative emotion. Now, write down an argument for doing this or against the negative emotion. Argue against all subconscious doubts you have rigorously until you are convinced a hundred percent. Now, you will either do what you have willed or will have dispelled the weak emotion. The logical outcome is this is positive emotion: you feel empowered for having done exactly as you have willed.

Use this positive emotion as capital and plug it back into this process to confront another problem. And then another, in an unbroken chain that spans weeks. If you cannot do something immediately after having convinced yourself to do it, set a time using a cell phone timer. Schedule breaks. You are transforming your life into a rational and mechanical regime.

Your emotional state will begin to grow exponentially, as this is a feedback loop. You will find no inertia in transforming your will into action. You will no longer need your notebook as you will have burned this process into your mind. Your ability to logically transform emotion into action will be absolute. You will have achieved total self-mastery. If you are weak this will drive you into madness.

>>18216509

What happened in those 3 weeks?

>>18216706
I gradually got better.

>>18216863

Yeah but how? Did you start practicing mindfulness meditation?

>>18217559
Yes, with a psychologist in a group meditation class.The book we used is the Mindful Way workbook by John Teasdale et al.

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>mfw yanking to paper works

Oi, Is there any spells/rituals that increase success?
I'm talking about random luck here, but other forms are fine.