/Buddha/ - Buddhism Thread

I think Buddhism is the most sound spiritual practice there is. I have a Psychology degree and pretty much everything ive learned about cognitive psych is confirmed in Buddhism.

>>18179856
>Buddhism is about the teachings of the Buddha
Would it not be more effective to attempt simulating Siddhartha's path to Attainment rather than the teachings of the Pali Canon?

>>18180664
Bonus question.

If the older Buddhist Tantras are taken at face value, they advocate the usage of their methods ASAP to build conditions leading to instant Attainment.

Why, then, do the five major Vajrayana schools conceal these teachings, particularly in the upper degrees, behind oaths and aescesis? Moreover, if the earliest Buddhist Tantras are correct in their assertion that the mantras of Saivism can produce Attainment with zero need for Buddhism at all (remember, the Five Schools revere Abhinavagupta as a Bodhisattva despite arguing STRONGLY against Buddhism), then why not go straight to the wellspring?

>>18180685
>their methods

Not who you're responding to, but what are these methods? What is the wellspring?

>>18180895
https://mega.nz/#F!wZBSkQQb!1bh07cpLYEB-niJzy5Kh6w

Vajrayana Buddhism developed out of state sponsored debates between Mahayana and Saivist mystics. I'd give my right testicle to have participated.

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>>18179856
>What do you think of Buddhism?
Comfiest religion.

>>18179856
I've become very interested in Buddhism and meditation lately, right now I'm reading "In the words of the Buddha". Hopefully that will be a good foundation in Buddhism instead of just wikipedia articles. If anyone can recommend me more books that'd be awesome.

>>18180664
From what I've read so far, Siddhartha's enlightenment was the result of the culmination of countless past lives, and he was in a way 'chosen' to be the Buddha to bring the information to mankind, like it was his destiny. Maybe I'm completely wrong though.

Anyway I really like the philosophies of Buddhism but it's hard for me to accept reincarnation, Karma I can kind of accept because it's true that doing good things does tend to reap some kind of benefit later in life, but as an atheist/skeptic I just have no way to accept in rebirth except in ways that obviously aren't meant in the Buddha's teachings (like a metaphorical sense). At best I can be agnostic on it but even then it feels like something's missing from the teachings.

So to end this blog post, the past two weeks have been the most spiritual I've ever been in my life and it feels good, atheist or otherwise. The Buddhist philosophies resonate a lot with me and it's been an eye opening experience for sure, I'll definitely keep learning more.

>>18180996
Did you mean "In the Buddha's Words" by Bhikkhu Bodhi?

The fully translated volumes of the sutta pitaka would be the logical continuation. They are also available from that publisher, translated and/or edited by Bhikkhu Bodhi, except for the Digha Nikaya iirc, which therefore might read a bit differently.

Alternatively check out the free translations by Thanissaro Bhikkhu and maybe have a look at accesstoinsight dot org

>>18181088
Yeah that's the book, my bad. I do have the four main nikaya's downloaded from the same publisher.

since there is no self there can't be rebirth.
buddhism btfo

>>18180921
how the fuck is it comfy?

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>>18181196
Meditating is pretty comfy

Until you meditate so much you loose your attachment to comfiness and you realize comfy only leads to suffering

>>18181189
you don't get reborn if you reach enlightenment, because you've successfully killed the illusion of the self

Do not listen to what people say of the Buddha. Listen to the Buddha.

The sayings of the Buddha are closer to the source than what people say about the sayings. Simple logic, no?

If you see buddha on the road. Kill him.

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>>18179856
You have a fun and empowering way of talking about this stuff - nice change of pace, thank you. Happen to have the sutta with the alcoholic being declared sottapana?

On another note, I've been into Mahasi-style Theravada practice for the past 3 years or so. I've benefited greatly from it, but I've recently become curious about Mahamurdra / Dzogchen practices. Does anyone have a source that explains the practices a down-to-earth, no bullshit kinda way?

>>18180685
I fear secrecy and concealmeant you've spoken of answers my question. Maybe one day someone will break their Samaya vows and just throw the technology out there? I can dream.

>>18179856
Look for the truth behind the Buddha's words, do not try to make the words into truth.

>>18180996
The thing about rebirth in Buddhism is that I think it is very metaphorical. There are parts of Buddhist texts, but unlike the texts of Abrahamic religions, they are not usually considered infallible. There are some parts of various texts that seem to point to a literal reincarnation, but I consider these (and many people do) as either a simplification or mistake by the transcriber since they seem to directly contradict the much more important idea that there is no eternal "self".

Personally I see it more as being just about the idea that your perceptions and desires will live on past your death. This gets very difficult to explain, though I'll do my best.

Basically the only things that make up "you" are your clinging to a sense of "you". There is no part of your body that make up "you", rather it's a collection of inanimate things working together to create an illusion of a self. When you get down to it, all people are bound by a sense of themselves, and this creates a collective where the sense of ego is a universal sense that everyone (unless you're in deep meditation, crazy, or on a ton of drugs) can relate to. When you die with a sense of "you", you do die, but (here's where it gets tough to explain) the fact is that there are other people with a sense of self, and they might as well be you.Because of this, your perceptions and everything that was you, exist somewhere else or in a combination of elsewheres. And now "you" are "you" again. If you die while enlightened though, there is no sense of self to move on, and "you" don't have to exist anymore since there wasn't a "you" when you died.

>>18180996
>Siddhartha's enlightenment was the result of the culmination of countless past lives
At the end of which he found himself in a position much like you...or me. Suffering bears down. How to we not only quiet our own, but assuage that of others? Siddhartha ended up using a few monastic routes to understand the puzzles of self and suffering but at the end of the day, the final key came under the Bodhi tree, from the hard won fruits of self-reflection.

>it's hard for me to accept reincarnation
Oddly I have little issue with this largely because it's irrelevant.

>Karma I can kind of accept because it's true that doing good things does tend to reap some kind of benefit later in life
That's playing a touch fast and lose with Karma but sure.

>The Buddhist philosophies resonate a lot with me and it's been an eye opening experience for sure, I'll definitely keep learning more.
I'm just here to prod, mate. Buddhist rhetoric and logic is a thing. You'll need to get used to discourse if you pursue things deep enough.

>>18181310
But man you don't have to wait and there's a pile of English tantra with Tibetan script and the lines of transmission are already in "just fuck my shit up senpai" territory.

I've been thinking about practicing Buddhism for a long long time but just being from a majority Christian country like Ireland I just feel it would come across abit inauthentic(?) I've read alot of books on mindfulness and meditation and been to some Buddhist temples while I lived in Japan

>>18181470
You might come across as inauthentic to some people, but that shouldn't stop you, and I think the really inauthentic thing to yourself is not practicing it just because you care about how authentic it seems to others. It's not like everyone has to know, I don't bring it up unless people ask.

>>18181484
ah thanks buddy! you are so right I'm pretty private in the first place, but I get anxious with stuff like this but I'll just keep reading and learning about it like I am now

>>18181470
>>18181484
'Authenticity' is mostly bullshit.

>>18181487
That's not to say don't study closely :^)

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>>18181461
Any good places to start? I'm not too smart - I got into practice with MCTB, and I was only able to comprehend the meditation instructions because Daniel makes it so braindead simple. Pls spoonfeed.

>>18181530
https://books.google.com/books/about/Introduction_to_Tantra.html?id=3iELAAAAYAAJ

https://books.google.com/books/about/Making_Sense_of_Tantric_Buddhism.html?id=bGQKWr9CAMwC

Tantra Illuminated on the Hindi side; all are in my library referenced above.

meditation is great. buddhism a shit chink cult

you guys recieve inner wisdom of the universe when you sit and meditate on thoughtlessness.
r-rr-right?

like, im not the only one who would sit and meditate and think of things and then come on /x/ and be perfectly able to answer questions i found asked here on completely seperate and intensely nuanced categories and beliefs for over a month...
r-r-riight??

how do i start thinking im a person again and stop thinking i am just a region of errant space that performs functions of action and logic in order to create the greatest possible gain for myself and others mentally spiritually and physically, or am i missing the point.

>>18181539
Sweet, thank you.

>>18181556
Some monasteries sure, but Buddhism as a whole fails to fulfill the definition of a cult by pretty much any definition.

Buddha found some superb psychological methods, among the best. Hook up a bunch of nonsense to that and the nonsense sells along with the valid teachings. Over hundreds of years buddhistic religions became encrusted with nonsense.

>>18181530
Throw away Buddhist beliefs. Focus on mindfulness meditation and cultivating mindfulness.

Any so-called Buddhist that disagrees with this is a fake Buddhist.

what's the distinction between the Buddhist notion of Restraining oneself, cultivating discipline, and practicing mindfulness and meditation and the Christian notion of surrendering to god and praying?

>>18181610
>how do i start thinking im a person again and stop thinking i am just a region of errant space that performs functions of action and logic in order to create the greatest possible gain for myself and others mentally spiritually and physically

Are you a person? Are you "region of errant space that performs functions of action and logic in order to create the greatest possible gain for myself and others mentally spiritually and physically"?

Is that who and what you are?

>>18181707
This. In addition it has a lot to do with Chinese literary conventions. A huge part of classical Chinese stories are very highly embellished historical accounts, and it isn't surprising that the same thing would happen to stories about the Buddha when brought over.

>>18181610
Humans are just regions of space that perform actions and logic to create the greatest gain for themselves. Once you stop seeing a divide between those two things, it won't matter.

>>18181751
>>18181778
do you guys ever just think of names that you might have for yourself?

like just call yourself a name, even if just for a moment, and hold on to the power that it feels to be called that right then.

>>18181470
Ya this is hard in any country, fitting in. I heard sometimes teens in Thailand don't even want to say they're Buddhist because it isn't cool in some circles, and that's a 95+% Buddhist country.

Just practice because you thinks there something to it, you don't have to convince everyone else, you don't even have to tell them.

>>18181707
If you don't believe in the "nonsense", don't. There's no blind beliefs in Buddhism. Even if you go to a monastery, they won't make you do anything you don't want to short of killing people. Here's an article if you're interested.

http://www.arrowriver.ca/dhamma/faith.html

>>18179856
Thank you for posting this. I am in a really dark point of my life after everything being headed in a positive direction before. I used to be into Bhuddism and it would help me. Reading the op has brought back feelings and realizations I haven't felt in at least over 5 months. Thank you.

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>>18180921
this desu

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this is a really nice thread

>>18181721
Christians don't seek to end their suffering, only to endure it long enough until they get to heaven

Buddhists seek to end the suffering in this life by detaching themselves, which makes more sense, an afterlife isn't a sure thing, so why hedge your bets

I had a dream a few months ago that really fucked me up, and ever since then I've been thinking about giving Buddhism a chance, but I don't think I'm capable of detaching myself from the earth that much.
How do you people do it?

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>>18183004
>Buddhism
>detachment from materiality
>not a middle path

buddhism is pretty much redpilled but these two concepts are shit
>inexistence of the soul
>inexistence of an omnipotent God

I think they're corrupted and that the messiah will teach their opposite.

>>18183039
>inexistence of the soul
But mindstream. Also Pali Canon seems to posit that a soul exists but it's fuckin' useless to talk about because it's functionally irrelevant for most people.

>inexistience of omnipotent God
Well, I think the position's closer to nondualism, at least in the tantras. In the Pali Canon the implication seems to be that 'yes, gods exist, but these praxes remove you from them as much as they remove you from the layperson'.

>>18183043
>Also Pali Canon seems to posit that a soul exists but it's fuckin' useless to talk about because it's functionally irrelevant for most people.

I mean... do you have a specific sutta that comes to mind for you to say that? That conflicts with the third mark of existence pretty starkly.

>>18183171
Jaliya Sutta

Supports nondualism and the idea that the question's irrelevant at the core.

>>18181716

This right here. The whole point of Buddhism is to strip away the layers of the ego through being mindful and present. If you are more concerned about Buddhist teachings than just being present you are only adding more layers of conditioning in the mix

>>18183181
Huh, not too familiar with this one. But I don't think it's implying a soul exists.

>Now of one who thus knows and thus sees, is it proper to say: “The soul is the same as the body,” or “The soul is different from the body?” “It is not, friend.” “But I thus know and see, and I do not say that the soul is either the same as, or different from the body.”

The way I read this is he's saying both positions individually are wrong. Not that, the soul exists, it's just neither of these.

>>18183685
>I do not say that the soul is either the same as, or different from the body.”
This is classic nondualism, meaning both options are equally false and not false.

The point of the sermon was to get these two Brahman fucks to stop speculating functionally irrelevant questions: If the soul exists it's a mystery only revealed to the attained. If the soul doesn't exist there's still the work of liberation to do.

>both positions are individually wrong
But there's no refutation of 'soul' here, only a comment on the nonduality of its nature.

Really Salayatana Vagga is an entire discourse about the supra-consciousness which carries the seeds of karmic discord from one life to the next, and again, that's ignoring the concept of mindstream and sticking with the Pali Canon.

Buddha realizes life is meaningless in the end and lives happily ever after. He simply had the unavoidable realization before he actually died.

Is Nirvana basically the same as non existence? Like no more rebirth, no more suffering. No more self.

Sounds very similar to non-existence to me.

>>18184096
>Is Nirvana basically the same as non existence? Like no more rebirth, no more suffering. No more self.
Sort of? Mindstream is still a thing but the implication appears to be that it becomes subsumed in a greater emergent whole, less 'non' existence than 'all' existence which includes 'non' as part of its subset.

That's not even getting into notions of Pure Land.

>>18184096

No, you Can reach Nirvana while still alive. Nibbana means that you don't create any Karma anymore because of being enlightened, thus getting out of samsara

>>18184096
Not really, obviously you can be alive and attain nirvana. I think nirvana is just a state where you realize there is no divide between life and death, so both of them become meaningless. You realize that you exist as a physical entity, but you are no longer clinging to such a strong sense of disconnect from everything else.

>>18184428
So just simplifying: it's not that you become non-existent, it's truly internalizing that you never really did.

>>18184103
>That's not even getting into notions of Pure Land.

Why not? The nimbutsu is your friend.

>>18185972
I'm mostly attempting to stick with concepts directly rooted in the Pali Canon.

>>18186033

Won't be long until the Pure Land is all that's left, I suspect. May already have reached that point.

>>18186046
I feel ya.
See: This thread.

>>18181196
It's comfy in the sense that it's about nothing but self-improvement, and there's no punishment or pressure to conform to it's beliefs.

>>18186323
But there is no self to improve, the first section of the Pali Canon's monastic regulatory pressures on behavior, and while there's no spanking at the eschaton, all Śramaṇa traditions hold doctrines of karma and samsara, so less punishment than non cessation of suffering which is still pretty fuckin' bleak.

The folks who think these praxes are comfy need to spend some time studying under Bodhidharma, because what he subjected Dazu Huike to was the opposite of 'comfy'.

>>18181716
Is nice to see someone thinking alike me. Do what the buddha does, not what the buddha says

Can I ask an open question to all practitioners?

Do you feel that having a family, wife, kids, etc and doing a family life is compatible to destroying all desire and ties? I mean, you're supposed to destroy all ties with the world in order to end suffering and reach enlightment. But on the other hand I must ensure the good of those who are counting on me. How do you deal with it?

>>18186868
Buddhism is about moderation not self-denial. Unless you're serious enough to enter a monastery, don't worry about it.

I've been to some Buddhsit monasteries.
They are full of the same crazy assholes of any religion.
Lots of them just sit around and point out the flaws in other people instead of focusing on their own practice.
And they all felt like authoritarian cults with a bunch of pointless idiotic cultural/ritual nonsense.

>>18186868
>Do you feel that having a family, wife, kids, etc and doing a family life is compatible to destroying all desire and ties? I mean, you're supposed to destroy all ties with the world in order to end suffering and reach enlightment. But on the other hand I must ensure the good of those who are counting on me. How do you deal with it?
see:
>>18186943
>>18183018
In some sense we can view Buddhism as a de-extremization of similar Sramana practices, and as such appears to have a householder tradition, if not in that name, given that the Pali Canon has distinctions between codes of life for the layman and codes of life for the devoted monk.

>>18186943
>>18187282

thank you. I'm at the moment practising mindfulness with awesome results, and I just want to go wherever it takes me, but I cannot compromise my earthly duties

>>18187314
Take my advice with a grain of salt; I'm not a Buddhist. I do, however, have a decent grasp of the Canon and feel spiritual alliance with one of the main sects.

>>18186972
And your pointing out the flaws in them.

Buddhism monasteries aren't perfect either.

>>18187321
I'm not a buddhist either, but I cannot help considering that it might be a way to take in the future. I only know that meditation works to levels i couldn't fathom

>>18179856
basically buddha make a mental trick to "not suffering".
that doesn´t mean life should be "not suffering".
and all the thing this people invented (karma, rebirth, no self, enlightment ) it´s just to make his theory more glorious and definitive.
it´s all manipulative shit.

>>18186407
>The folks who think these praxes are comfy need to spend some time studying under Bodhidharma

Somewhat tempered by the fact that Bodhidharma was likely a mythical figure.

>>18189123
>basically buddha make a mental trick to "not suffering".
>that doesn´t mean life should be "not suffering".

What the actual fuck?

>>18189294
what you don´t understand. life has no meaning. cha know?

>>18189361

Should I be concerned that none of this seems to follow?

>>18189383
what?

>>18189421

Exactly.

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>>18189361
>that feel when almost everyone you see appears to mistake existentialism for nihilism

>>18189435

I accept that I am but a vessel, a pawn in a game likely beyond my comprehension. In practice, that seems to make my existence both meaningful and meaningless.