/omg/ - Occult & Magic General

inb4 mayhem

>>18154885
>burn them
We're all burning.

>>18154885
I'll decide on 1/2/∞ when mine expires.

>>18154898
No, I mean Sweetmorn Chaos 1st, YOLD Infinity.

As a Discordian Pope, I hereby excommunicate anyone who posts in this thread.

>>18154931
Nice! I want to get a bunch of Discordians together for a party and make a nice meatloaf held together partly with breadcrumbs, then reveal after everybody's had some that the breadcrumbs are actually little bits of hotdog bun.

>>18154943
Anybody can play an accordion if you don't care how it sounds.

>>18154940

Plan it for Friday.

>>18154943

Yes but you must learn to play every song backwards.

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>>18154866
>Eris
>blessing
You asshole.

Anybody have anything good about the Hand of Glory? Wikipedia and articles on the Whitby Museum can only get me so far. Not even sure what's the best method to make one.

N-not that I would.

>>18154958
Eris has genuinely been a blessing in my life.
>>18154964
Nice.

>>18154940

>eating meat

>>18154976
It's part of my religion, asshole.

>III - A Discordian is Required during his early Illumination to Go Off Alone & Partake Joyously of a Hot Dog on a Friday; this Devotive Ceremony to Remonstrate against the popular Paganisms of the Day: of Catholic Christendom (no meat on Friday), of Judaism (no meat of Pork), of Hindic Peoples (no meat of Beef), of Buddhists (no meat of animal), and of Discordians (no Hot Dog Buns).

>>18154985

doesn't make it less gross

Don't know if you guys will find it interesting, but I dreamed I was remote viewing a bacteria. It was floating in water glowing in the sunlight. It was yellowish golden colored, it looked like a shimmering iridescent living fractal of light.

>>18154996

Have you not read the Pentabarf?

> I- There is no Goddess but Goddess and She is Your Goddess. There is no Erisian Movement but The Erisian Movement and it is The Erisian Movement. And every Golden Apple Corps is the beloved home of a Golden Worm.

> II-A Discordian Shall Always use the Official Discordian Document Numbering System.

> III- A Discordian is Required during his early Illumination to Go Off Alone & Partake Joyously of a Hot Dog on a Friday; this Devotive Ceremony to Remonstrate against the popular Paganisms of the Day: of Catholic Christendom (no meat on Friday), of Judaism (no meat of Pork), of Hindic Peoples (no meat of Beef), of Buddhists (no meat of animal), and of Discordians (No Hot Dog Buns).

> IV- A Discordian shall Partake of No Hot Dog Buns, for Such was the Solace of Our Goddess when She was Confronted with The Original Snub.

>V- A Discordian is Prohibited of Believing What he Reads

>>18154946
http://vocaroo.com/i/s04PBQrQO7RC

>>18155008

this sums up everything wrong with the occult

it's too appealing to ugly, fat chicks

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>>18154875

>responding to schizophrenic tripfags

>>18155054
you just don't understand discordianism, literally too deep for your dogmatic brain, you double neophyte

>>18155085

>not telling the difference between a schizophrenic and lame 14 year old

>>18155093
both are similarly cancerous, desu

>>18155007
How to remote view? Also do you mind drawing a picture of the bacteria?

>>18155090

think so?

>>18155156
I'm merely shitposting, senpai.

>>18155122
It was mostly like a really vivid dream. I was absent a body for the most part. I was zooming around it. I probably couldn't draw it. I did some detachment so that I wouldn't disturb it and some spirit pulled me back. I like to practice remote viewing in a forest. Meditate a while, then close your eyes and start connecting with the energy around you. It sort of starts to feel like the body is full of a magnetic fluid that can flow through everything. Its sort of easy for me though, as any time I do something even the least bit with my perception there is always a spirit looking back at me. Its kind of hard to ignore once you notice it.

>>18155171

figured

>>18155181
What are the spirits like? Do you use any protection before remote viewing?

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The Rites are complete.

Have a wonderful equinox, everyone.

>>18155419

didn't know that was today, but i don't know what day it is either so i guess that's not surprising

>>18155156
Not that anon, but possibly. Not the too deep part, but the Pentabarf out of context won't do much for you. A major component of Discordianism in my experience is development of an ability to laugh at oneself, a combination of self respect and honest but playful humility. It's dramatically improved my life and self image, and helped me improve myself as a person. It also has some philosophical connections to the Tao Te Ching and Chuangzi.

It's silliness, but it's silliness designed to tear down psychological barriers.

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>>18155419
Likewise.

>>18155575

i understand that it isn't meant to be taken seriously, but it also isn't funny

it has the sort of humor ugly fat girls who watch too much anime have, so even though i get it i also think it's stupid

i don't take myself very seriously either, no reason to things like that aren't important

i'm not saying anything is wrong with the philosophy btw, more the way it's presented

but hey whatever works for you, not like i can judge i'm pretty fucked up myself

i'm almost never sober, have sex addiction issues, and can't hold down a stable anything

the only reasons i'm not homeless and completely fucked are that people like my company and find me attractive

like i'm engaged and my fiance takes care of a lot of things, i have people who care about me who will just send me money, and then men and women who want to have sex with me will give me gifts and things like that

so not like i'm better than anyone, that kind of humor just makes me cringe and think of a very specific group of people

and i've always thought it was a shame i don't see many pretty women into the occult, so there's that too

>>18155635
>>18155419

what's with the peacocks?

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>>18155635
Thanks, mate.

>>18155700
In Chumbley's ritual year the fall equinox is the Rite of the Peacock Angel.

Bureflux is in four days. What do you all have planned?

>>18155716

oh i asked because peacocks were a huge part of the dreams i had immediately after this ritual this girl i was with did

and some other stuff about them

just wondering what made them significant here

i don't know anything about any of this, i'm just here because of a lot of crazy shit and dionysus

>>18155715

told you before, i'm too high for all the cryptic stuff, that's still true

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>>18155731
Please stop with the nonsensical word-vomit.

>>18155741
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7IR4KsebSw

What the fuck is going on in this thread?

>>18155768
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhqijfqecvA

>>18155788

sun and not son?

>>18155777

fuck if i know

>>18155816
>>18155777
We have a persistent retard spamming off topic stream of consciousness nonsense.

>>18155788
I'm certainly not against some sort of belief in a threefold Great Architect of the Universe but have you considered studying comparative religion instead of throwing together word salad based on what you read on Wikipedia five minutes ago?

>>18155845
He's a kekfag.
Obviously anything with more discipline involved than shitposting for dubs is beyond dude's comprehension.

>>18155905
I'd rather you:
>fuck
>off
>m80
Until you can talk with us about the historical or reconstructive rites you practice.

>>18155950
>Ancient rites
Such as?

>>18155826

i would've said imaginative, but it is funny that he mentioned new york

>>18155829

so who do you think i am exactly?

>>18155950
I don't even care if you're a wacky chaos magician who makes up his own shit to be honest. I just want you to make sense.

>WE are! A.k.a. The Forgotten Secret Service of Queen (Pure) Glass :D

Enough of this.

>>18155981
Oh ffs.

>>18154931
butt sex me, pope

Are we looking at autism or schizophrenia here? The roleplaying is autistic as fuck and all the non-sequiturs, narcissism and butchering of language point to an adult child.

On the other hand, this is /x/.

>Hard mode: viral marketing chatterbot created to derail threads.

>>18156039

i hope it's schizophrenia, it's more interesting than autism

>>18156044
It's certainly easier to find out where they live using the radios in their teeth.

Anything interesting happen in the old thread?

>>18156067
Just schizposting and discordian babbies with nothing to say.

>ywn get shitposted by the beat poet laureate of the 20th century
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqcTVVUFnKQ

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>>18156073

>>18156055

i'm glad you didn't mention the most accurate way of tracking them

>>18156067

define interesting

>>18156092
>>18156073
why are deathgrips such fucking based wizards?

>>18156092
How do I come at dream initiation from an academic psychological standpoint? There are so many facets from dream yoga to common environments such as labyrinths and holy mountains to dream as a way of understanding the nature of consciousness that I'm a bit lost. It's one thing to do a monograph for religious studies and another entirely to wrap it up in 'science' and call it cognitive psych.

>>18156124
Lots of time alone in the basement honing the craft.

>>18156143
>Lots of time alone in the basement honing the craft.
That makes sense.

>>18156132
>unintelligible babble
That does not make sense.

>>18156143
>dream initiation from an academic psychological standpoint
Read Chumbley's article on dream and maybe Tantraloka.

>>18156132
>Many times the Oracles are spoken, and many times they are forgotten and lost. Therefore, I have bound a Secret Oath in Blood, that the Children of the Serpent, The Dragon's Brood, shall be my arcana incarnate.

>>18156161

prove you're telling the truth then, you should know how

you did get the instructions didn't you?

>>18155716
>>18155419

How did the rites go? Were the experiences as advertised, or anything interesting? Altar's looking dope as always.

>>18156170
Maybe.

I hit flow.

I saw...some...THING [/shatner] out in the woods today.

Night before last I had dreams of making offerings to Raktadevi.

I was gonna snap some pics of the outdoor rite, I ended up using 65 peacock feathers for the nest of flame and the adoration of the Death's Head Tree.

I probably shoulda bleed into the skull more but what I WANT to do is get a few good drops, water it down, then paint the mantras along the rim of the lower half (with the face).

Anyhow, it's only been, what, four hours? We'll see what happens the next few days. There's plenty of material in TAN that's based off of Headless One and Samekh.

At this point I've worked the Archangels, the Archons, and the Agrippan Infernal Principalities, so height, heart, and depth...

>>18156191

you think the virgin mary is still a virgin at this point?

>>18156190
>TAN
what is this an acronym for? Im not putting it together.

>>18156209
Yo Pythia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0SmqbBIpQ

>>18156007
What the fuck has been done to that poor wood, look's like its been painted with car body filler, what the fuck.

>>18156215
Nothing.
It's the seed syllable for the mantic formulae of that equinoctial rite, the praxes, the contemplations, and the spells of empowerment.

>Tan: The Mystery of Dracotaos being The Rite of the Peacock-angel and the Four Watchers

>>18156237
oh got it, I guess the caps through me off, thank you for that.

>>18156190

>I saw...some...THING [/shatner] out in the woods today.
Fuck man you never know what's out there sometimes.
https://www.youtube.com
/watch?v=7FPELc1wEvk

>I was gonna snap some pics of the outdoor rite, I ended up using 65 peacock feathers for the nest of flame and the adoration of the Death's Head Tree.

Are the explanations for what is to happen in this rite found in the DBOE? Sounds really cool.

>Night before last I had dreams of making offerings to Raktadevi.
>I probably shoulda bleed into the skull more

Perhaps the dream has something to so with this?

>At this point I've worked the Archangels, the Archons, and the Agrippan Infernal Principalities, so height, heart, and depth...

Sounds neat; not too many thelemites or occultists such as yourself around. It's odd, with the rise of technology and accessibility. Why aren't there more people speaking out like you?

>>18156257
Still, >>18156251 this was an interesting response.

the deck has probably just had many repaints over the years with nobody taking it back to the natural wood first.

>>18156073
>Discordians have nothing to say.
Maybe you're just not listening right.

>>18156266
Yuh. It's pretty simple, tho. All the rites call fore a fire. For this one you build the wood pile but don't light it. You lay the plants for the Chant of 8 Trees on the mount then start moving feathers around. The rite only calls for...24, but I wanted to make full halos of irridules around the objects of veneration. So atop the unlit fire you put a bowl there, then put your skull into it, then bleed into the skull. After that, you take the skull and put it on a branch about eye level that you've built a mound for in the second circle. It's largely the same operation, more feathers being placed.

Yeah, the dreams are probably related.

>>18156307
Did you mess with the masonry folder? It looks like it's missing a few

Hello folks, where would you recommend starting out in Magick?

I have dabbled, years ago, in Wiccan and Chaos Magick a little. I was young and successes were anecdotal at best, I would admit mostly due to teenage ego.

In short, recommended reading?

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>>18156383
pic related

>>18156383
Ignore these faggots:

>>18156395
>>18156392
What are you INTERESTED in?

>>18156392
>Initiation into Hermetics

lol

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>>18156438
It would REALLY help if you could form a complete sentence.

>>18156421
>What are you INTERESTED in?

Truth be told I'm very much a directionless dabbler looking for the end of a string. I guess you could say I'm looking for focus.

>>18156452
>focus
Yoga.
Shiva Samhita, Hathayoga, Raja Yoga, Buddhist contemplations, etc.

If you want to start ceremonial work begin using LBRP daily and read around the currents (Golden Dawn, grimoires).

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>>18156472
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdLixLtuMKA

>>18156460
thank you, I shall investigate these on the morn.

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>>18156505
https://soundcloud.com/underscores/ode-to-macintosh-plus

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>>18156537

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>>18156537
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mywmVmpPU4s

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>>18156554
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmNtb3KUYM4

Reading through the GD lectures and rituals, not planning to work them just getting context by learning about an influential system. Anything else I should read/know?

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>>18154866
boom

magic isn't real

Oh good now we've got a schizophrenic AND a pink knight. Nuke the thread from orbit and start over.

Hey, I was wondering if any of you guys have experience with looking into past lives and can share some of your techniques?

I have some deeply ingrained traumas that I feel might have been carried over from a past life, and I'd like to try my hand at looking into it.

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literally just filter him and enjoy your typical quality /omg/ lmao

how 2 use magic to get qt3.14gf

>>18157005
but why is he doing this? does anyone know?

>>18157172
Either autism or unmedicated schizophrenia. Maybe a little bit of both.

>>18157172
mental disorder, attention seeking, being 14 years old, hormones and shit
it's kinda sad, you can tell he is going to be miserable as a grown-up

>>18157199
don't you have some sort of epic quest to go on that will get you committed?

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How does one get into Wiccan or Chaos Magick? Do you have to be a girl to be a Wiccan? Is there some sort of religious text you follow or get lessons from?

>>18156752

i don't know how to do it, but i did have a girl i was with do a past life ritual that had a huge effect on me, personally if i were you i wouldn't go looking for that kind of experience

she was scared by it in spite of practicing for ten years, said the intensity was rare, and that the way it was manifesting was strange so maybe it was really atypical

but the past is where it is, you don't need two lifetimes haunting you

it's been years at this point, and things still haven't stopped

>>18157119

girls are easy, no magic necessary just spend enough time with them and they'll do all the work

>>18157421
For chaos magick, read Pop Magic by Grant Morrison. For Wicca, I don't have any recommended reading but I know men and women are both accepted.

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>>18157421
No one? All I'm asking for is maybe some tips on what beginner books to read up on, maybe a little info on Wicca as a religion and chaos magick. You guys don't even have a pastebin for fucks's sake, most other generals have one so that you can avoid having to deal with annoying nubs like me pestering you for shit.

>>18157502
Never mind spoke too soon, sorry anon from >>18157498.

>>18157502
fuck you

>>18157172

well according to him very important alien/god shit is going down in nyc soon or something, and incarnations of gods in human form hiding on earth are supposed to stop it

also he thinks some of them are in the thread, myself included, i'm not sure who he thinks i am but something about him needing to tell me instead of my birth mother

and so on

you can read it over a few times and it still won't make sense though

he's both sortof imaginative and really terrible at getting his message across, i imagine it's that he thinks being extra cryptic creates some sort of atmosphere

really though it just makes his character ineffective given the message he's supposed to have

he's going to need to do a couple of rewrites if he wants it to work

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>>18157510
Is this how you treat all potential converts?

>>18157517
I'm not that rude anon, but most of us probably aren't Wiccans. I'm not.

>>18157499

i don't practice anything really, i'm here to learn about some things that have happened and are, so i can't point you in any direction

but this girl i was with, the reason i ended up here, told me that wicca is basically a joke and just ok as an initiatian into this sort of thing for teenage girls

you're better off studying other things

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>>18157524
This is the the occult/magic general, I thought that Wicca would fall under those categories, and it's not like there's a general specifically for Wicca.

Wicca is a joke, it was invented in the 50's by a British government worker who just ripped off parts of hermeticism and alister crowely as excuse to get famous and fuck retard hippie bitches

>>18157502

sorry this >>18157532

was for you

>>18157499

if you count what someone described as "being ripped wide open" against my will in a metaphysical sense as "staying awake" then sure

>>18157522

why would i sage for virgins they don't do me any good?

>>18157498
>Pop Magic
>"POP MAGIC! by Grant Morrison. This reproduction is faithful to
the edition published in The Disinformation Book of Lies and is not intended in any way to infringe on copyright, but simply desires maximum exposure to those who might not otherwise come in contact with these ideas. POP MAGIC! is Magic! for the People. Pop Magic! is Naked Magic! Pop Magic! lifts the 7 veils and shows you the tits of the Infinite."
Were you pulling my leg or is this really recommended? Seems like it's watered down for masses shit, or snake oil salesmenship.

>>18157534

wicca is mostly just kid shit is what everyone is saying, that's why you won't find a wiccan here, don't waste your time

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if you are noob who wants to into the occult read these books

>>18157534
It's thelema with some nonspecific reconstructionist paganism painted on. If you want to discuss that, go ahead, but the new thing is heavily syncretized essex grimoire traditions and quimbanda.

>>18157546

i'm not diane, you're mistaken, aren't you supposed to recognize me?

>>18157548
Do people keep making these worse and worse as a joke?

>>18157546

also virgins do nothing for me if they're supposed to stay that way, i prefer a girl with a little experience anyway

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also this

>>18157551
make one yourself then asshat

>>18157537
I share your opinion on Wicca and feel similarly about certain more recent movements like that based around The Secret, but if a few people involved in them realise that they're actually peddling half-truths based on Hermeticism and move on to actual Hermetica and Qabalah, it might not be all bad after all.

>>18157534
It sort of does and sort of doesn't. I recommend leaving Wicca LARPing behind and visiting the interior of the Earth.

>>18157551
Yay I'm being led on a wild goose chase.
Is there a better pic or something? Seriously I don't care about performing "magick" I'm just interested in a primer.

>>18157555

if you did recognize me you would've named me right

but you got it wrong, gender and everything, and maybe i'd give you mistaking me for a girl it wouldn't be the first time it's happened, but you're supposed to be able to properly recognize everyone otherwise you're just going to ruin the mission

you should probably spend the next few days sorting out all of your instructions, and hiding your tracks

you messed up, and in front of an audience too, pretty shameful

>>18157567
>the troll said the image was bad so its bad

Why do you need to be told everything

>>18157570
Ignore the schizophrenic spammer.

>>18157567

why not check the books out before you judge them as shit? the person who called them garbage didn't offer an alternative and you don't know what's in books that you haven't read

besides most things like this, even garbage stuff, have some things to them that are worth knowing even if it's wrapped up in shit

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>>18157572
>Why do you need to be told everything
I'm going to take a guess here, and say it's because I'm a nub who doesn't know anything about the subject? Seriously, I'm clueless about all this, I don't know any better.

>>18157573

or you could if he bothers you, i'm not bothered by him i'm bored and have nothing else to do and he's going to be here anyway (unless he reads this and knows he has a week to cleanse himself in complete solitude or be taken off the mission forever for his mistakes) may as well talk

>>18157581
i provided you with actual books to look into, that idiot just said " lol does bookz sux xDD" and offered nothing else.
Stop being fucking stupid.

The fucking kybalion is THE book about hermticsim

>>18157557
>new thought bullshit
>montalk
>bardon

>>18157561
The first one doesn't look so bad now.

Assuming you've read all those, what did you think of them compared to alternative books on the same subjects?

>>18157567
The first one isn't bad, in fact, about half the books are great. I'm just picky and like more primary sources, hate bardon's mangling of absolutely everything, and don't consider jung introductory reading.

>>18157588
It's THE book about new thought.

>>18156717

You may want to move on to Crowley, at some point, since his system is based on the Golden Dawn. 777, Magick in Theory and Practice, especially the appendixes.

>>18156752

I think Bennett published a method in the first volume of the Equinox.

>>18157421

http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/index_e-books.html

Hine's probably best.

For Wicca, I like, A Witches' Bible.

>>18157548

Meh. There's some gold mixed with the shit. A lot of shit, though.

>>18157567
>Is there a better pic or something?

Nope.

>>18157581

i've never read through many books, i know the things i do know just based on experience and women who wanted to fuck (women who are into the occult really like me for some reason), and honestly you don't need books to have experiences or anything

you could alternatively try an offering and asking for guidance, and see who answers and take it from there

why are you seeking this out anyway? i'm asking since i never would've sought any of this out on my own, it found me and made itself unavoidable

>>18157581

There's a beginner's folder in Ape's mega. Start there.

>>18157602
>calls it shit
>suggests wicca

Kill youreself my man

>>18157609

What a sad and worthless fuck.

>>18157603
Just interested is all and looking to expand my knowledge, and I've always been attracted to occult stuff anyways.

>>18157646

fair enough, i guess maybe i've just had some bad experiences having had this all kind of just pushed on me without having a choice in the matter

and had i been given the choice i wouldn't have bothered with any of it, so it's interesting to me when someone purposely goes out seeking it

>retarded tripfag
>bad book recs
>wicca
fuck it I prefer Ape posting walls of text I barely understand and neophytes asking about chaos 101 over this

kurwa, desu

>>18157782
BTW isn't really that shitty. Wicca as found in the New Age section of your local bookstore, though, is.

Also you got a couple dozen options outside of 'wicca', some of which have serious backbone.

>>18157784

Gardnerian/Alexandrian ain't so bad, really. It's not what it pretends to be, but then neither is the Order.

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Hi I'm a loser who does LBRP and Star Ruby with Chaos stuff and I read a lot of spoopy stuff but don't have time for a lot of practice so I dick around with low brow self serving magick I can do in the span of an hour.

What would you label me? Baby's first mage? Lazy Neophyte? Wannabe Wizard? Diet Magic Drinker?

>>18157825
better than being a wiccan

>>18157825
Also I'm the guy that made that "what I read what I expected what I got" meme about Enochian and Sudoku, my computer went to shit and was wondering if anyone could post it so I could have it again?

>>18157539
Chaos Magic is magic for the masses in a lot of ways. Pop Magic a good place to start and a terrible place to finish.

Also, Grant Morrison and Gordon White are the only currently practicing chaos magicians I know of who are doing anything noteworthy.

>>18157842
If you seriously think not just recommending Liber Null, Liber KKK, or any basic writing is not infinitely better you are stupid.

>>18157842
Is Moore not counted as a chaos magician?

>>18157825
Why do you want a label, seems arbitrary.

>>18157848
Gordon White, who is a fucking hero of chaos magic and an academic, considers Pop Magic! a great introduction. But I guess I should listen to some random anon instead.
>>18157851
Hard to say. I don't think he considers himself one, anyway, but he does think creativity is an important component of magic.

>>18157867
>I don't think he considers himself one, anyway,
True, I guess I always just assumed that was him being such a chaote that he refused that label as well.

Suppose I want to meet a specific deity. How would you recommend I do it, and how do I make sure it's actually them?

>>18157839
>meme about Enochian and Sudoku

lel

>>18157851

Not really.

>>18157881
>How would you recommend I do it

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib6.html

>>18157825
i wouldn't call you anything, i'm only here since dionysus won't leave me alone, i don't even do rituals (had one done to me, not by choice, i actually disagreed with it altogether) or practice anything

>>18157881

which diety? the only one i've ever dealt with was dionysus and that was a result of being called first, and i was instructed to just make an offering and call out

i don't know if it's different than that if you're seeking someone who hasn't sought you out first, but it worked when i gave it a try

well dionysus, and someone else i don't know who, he was dressed as a shepherd had two goats with him and told me he was there to relay a message from dionysus, looked young seemed old

>>18157825
a hobbyist
I like to draw and read, rarely spend more than 2 hours on that daily and call it a hobby
I'm not passionate enough to call myself an artist or a bookworm

>>18157899
Thanks.
>>18157956
>someone else i don't know who, he was dressed as a shepherd had two goats with him and told me he was there to relay a message from dionysus, looked young seemed old
Sounds like Hermes. And I don't want to say what deity because I have a hunch if people knew they'd try to talk me out of it.

>>18158040

i was thinking maybe that was it too, heard that from one other person, but he didn't tell me much other than to think about what dionysus told me and just accept it

that it was easier that way, and that the alternative would be terrible

fair enough, you don't have to say who, i don't know enough to talk anyone out of anything really no matter who you told me i imagine, but i'm curious if you think people might try to talk you out of it there's a reason right?

you don't have to say it, but think about it, you might be taking on a lot more than you should by doing it

hope you're careful, whoever it is

>>18156143
>How do I come at dream initiation from an academic psychological standpoint?

Smoke wormwood before sleep, and do a lot of self-hypnosis towards communication with THAT via dreams.

>>18158166
o, surgo żyje

>>18158166
Where do you get wormwood?

>>18158182
Żyje żyje. Jak leci?

>>18158184
Literally any store with herbs.

>>18158166

all wormwood does when you smoke it is taste bad

>>18158184

a lot of stores that sell herbs and occult shops sell wormwood, i've had it in tea and i've smoked it before and i've never noticed any effect

>>18158186
>when you smoke it

>>18157557
>Kabylion

>>18158195
To elaborate, you need A LOT. Like 5-10 blunts.

Second, you don't feel anything while smoking; what it does is make your dreams more vivid.

>>18158188
Did you add any alcohol or oils to your tea? Because thujone doesn't bind with water.

>>18158206
any other way than smoking it? Can i mic it in with weed or tobacco I fell like it would be shit to smoke and is there a certain quality thats safe or not safe to smoke because of a weird curing process?

>>18158166
>wormwood
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneirogen#Partial_list_of_oneirogenic_substances

>>18158213
Most of which are entirely illegal.

>>18158209
I just smoke it straight.

As for qualities... Iunno. I just buy medical-grade wormwood from my local health store.

>>18158213
>>18158206
>>18158188
Of those on the list, I recommend:
>Silene undulata
>Calea ternifolia

>>18157602
>You may want to move on to Crowley, at some point, since his system is based on the Golden Dawn. 777, Magick in Theory and Practice, especially the appendixes.
Thanks, I actually think i'm starting to get a pretty good grip on Crowley, i've read all the major works and a good bit besides. Part of why i'm reading this is to get a better context for his system. I was thinking more like, are there any especially useful or insightful commentaries to read alongside?

>>18158219
>I was thinking more like, are there any especially useful or insightful commentaries to read alongside?

Ape? Anything good out there?

I read Magick in Theory and Practice, first, then Regardie's, The Golden Dawn. I then read, The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic, when it came out. Regardie's, Ceremonial Magic, will show you how to start putting all this to good work.

>>18158219
>>18158235

You might also consider, "The Temple of Solomon the King", running through several numbers of Vol 1 of, The Equinox.

>>18158185
po staremu, okultyzm jako hobby
chaos, trochę sigili, spontaniczne inwokacje
systematyczności i jako takiej dyscypliny pilnuję w kwestii medytacji, tarota i codziennego baniszowania

gdy przywrócę do życia trochę ładu w innych aspektach, mam nadzieję pogłębiać wiedzę i rozwijać się dalej

>>18158255
No patrz. Ja ciągnę teraz w stronę rozkręcenia hipno-biznesu w Krakowie. Zobaczymy jak to pójdzie. Magia... eh. Nie ma co się w to bawić, jak są lepsze metody.

so I heard that magick in theory and practice by Crowley is basically a book meant to completely fuck up beginners
can anyone elaborate, please?

>>18158260

You're just not quite as romantic as some of the rest of us. Me, I like a good story.

>>18158195

yeah i heard you could smoke it and get results so i smoked a bunch of it when it was all i had and i was out of other drugs

>>18158206

honestly i don't remember, i had it as tea years ago and my fiance is the one who made it

my life is mostly a blur of things that have happened while i'm intoxicated so it's hard for me to give a clear answer with that sort of thing

i've personally gotten a stronger thujone high from smoking a bunch of sage though since sage also contains the chemical, and the sage was from my personal garden rather than a store so it could've been a quality issue

not a fan of the feeling you get smoking thujone though

>>18158209

it is shit to smoke, tastes awful, but i don't see why you couldn't mix it i would've had i not been out of everything else

>>18158218

i'll have to look into those

sortof related i heard nightshade can have narcotic qualities, there's a bunch growing by my house so i'm pretty tempted to eat some of the berries but i know there's a line between that and poisoning myself so anyone ever give it a go?

>>18158272
>I heard

Where? From whom?

>>18158260
co poza hipnozą? szeroko pojęta psychologia?

>>18158216

since when is something being illegal important?

>>18158278
many different people who read the book and claim to know a thing or two about Crowley's work

>>18158279
Nie, tylko hipno. Sam w sobie temat ogromny, bo przenika zasadniczo każdą sferę życia.

>>18158280
Since cost is an issue. I'm not going to be paying more for postage and shit.

>>18158285
Sounds like you hang around analphabets, then.

>>18158285

Don't sound like credible claims, to be honest.

Most of it will likely go over your head, for a while. You might get more from the appendixes in the back. Theoretically, you could fuck yourself up with most anything and some people could fuck up an iron ball. Everyone I have known who knows and works with Crowley's material think Magick in Theory and Practice is an excellent mid-level handbook.

>>18158292

well if that's the case and you just want the chemical in wormwood (thujone) then sage is a substitute you'll probably be able to find easier that has the same chemical in it

it varies depending on the kind of sage you get, and i don't remember which kinds have it the most concentrated since i didn't like the high

but if you can't get wormwood and want thujone smoke sage, but honestly every time i've tried it has been somewhat unpleasant

>>18158285
I've read book, plus the unpublished Yorke Microfilms of the Warburg Institute. I'm, at bare minimum, as knowledgeable as many published authors on Thelemic topics.

>>18158272
^Bullshit.

So basically Discordianism is like chaos magic in that it gets heat because most of the people involved in it don't actually put any effort in, right?

>>18158276
>nightshade
nnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Belladonna.shtml

>>18158346
Yup.
The guy who was asking about reconstruction the other day deserves a cookie, tho.

>>18158391
Isn't not putting any effort in the point of discordianism? Besides for being a parody of religion and campy psychospiritual eye opener from the era of LSD and sketchy gurus.

https://youtu.be/g3q_eqrWgTQ
Anyone here like blackbird raum Been digging them for a while then came across this song and a few others realized the understood their namesake and like them alot more

>>18158364

haven't been able to look at it on erowid, my data is gone for the month, and my fiance and i are living with this guy who's got 30+ years on us and has blocks on his wi-fi for drugs, alcohol and porn

erowid was the first place i went to check, and that asshole has it blocked

>>18158391
That's actually me. I'm into Discordianism as a kind of zen-like philosophy but also into genuine Eris worship, and want to try to figure out how to construct a cult of Eris that, while it may (and I think should) still incorporate humor, also actually has some "order" to it.

Consider that even in Discordianism, order isn't inherently bad. Instead, order and disorder are part of the same thing, and we divide them psychologically. Any genuine attempt to worship Eris as a manifestation of the transcendent, divine chaos from which everything flows, then, should include both spontaneity and structure in tandem.

Which is why I'm now reading about other mystery cults in order to steal their shit.

>>18158407
Not being required to put effort in might be part of the point; I don't think that actually not putting in effort is the point. There was a lot of effort put into things like the Principia Discordia itself, the Illuminatus Trilogy, the KLF, and so on.

>>18158346

i assumed the shit humor puts people off

>>18158427
I don't find about 75% of the jokes in the Principia Discordia all that funny, but there are lots of different people who consider themselves Discordians, who've written lots of different works, with not only different amounts but entirely different styles of humor in them. Hell, some of the pieces in the Book of Eris have no jokes whatsoever.

>>18158441

everything i've seen has made me internally cringe personally, but whatever works for you

a lot of it comes off as flying spaghetti monster level retarded to me though, and i have no real interest in the goddess of discord aside from that

i've got my own deity issues to worry about without adding onto them

File: fnord-hodge_podge-seek_into_the_chao.jpg (196KB, 1000x561px) Image search: [Google]

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>>18158415
>order isn't inherently bad
It's the Hodge to your Podge, mate.

>>18158415
The effortful-effortlessness reminds me a lot of mahamudra, which is filled to the brim with stories of initiation being granted through mandalas made of piss and sandals to the head.

>>18158454
>The interplay of hodge and podge within the womb of Mother Eris creates the expansion and contraction of nature. Although the entire universe is created out of this reproductive dance, it is but a tiny portion of her being. Her heart is the Universal Heart, and her mind the Universal Mind. The reproductive function is also a part of human beings. Because hodge and podge are not complete within us as individuals, we pair up to integrate them and bring forth new life. Although most people spend their entire lives following this biological impulse, it is only a tiny portion of our beings as well. If we remain obsessed with seeds and eggs, we are married to the fertile reproductive valley of Mother Eris but not to her immeasurable heart and all-knowing mind. If you wish to unite with her heart and mind, you must integrate hodge and podge within and refine their fire upward. Then you have the power to merge with the whole being of Mother Eris. This is what is known as true evolution.

So I have to ask. Do you guys not believe in god? Or what's the deal?

please don't curse me.

>>18159207
Varies from person to person. Some believe in the God of Christianity (and/or Judaism, and/or Islam) while others believe in one or more other gods, or none at all.

>>18159211
Interesting, I was just wondering because I understood that crowley did stuff "related" to satan.

Are servitors real? If so, what's the most effective way to create one, and/or can you recommend a good book to read about them?

>>18159218
>I understood that crowley did stuff related to "satan"
Fix'd. It's actually a huge difference.

>>18159234
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3henw6

>>18155054
>ugly, fat chicks

A subject I'm sure you have vast experience with.

>>18156170
>How did the rites go?

Don't be silly, he does no rites. He does nothing but post on 4chan 24/7.

>>18159263

i've actually never been with an ugly fat chick, i have flirted with and accepted gifts from them though so yeah i have a bit of experience

not vast amounts though

>>18159207

i don't believe in or accept the christian idea of god, and i'm strongly against abrahamic faiths in general

>>18159306
why is that?

>>18159300
>i've actually never been with an ugly fat chick

Suuuuuuuuure you haven't.

Although... maybe you're being honest and are just a faggot.

>>18159315

why don't i believe or why am i against them?

>>18159207
Life is so much larger than one religion, one idea of God. I believe in God but not the same way a Christian would. I don't view God as an old man in the sky. I don't even view him as a persona.

God to me is much more elusive, much more grand and mysterious. It's so more than mere belief. It is seeing God or the quality of God in all. It resides in all things and is at the same time beyond everything.

>>18159327

lowest i've gone was a 4 and she was thin, not saying i wouldn't if it came up and i was drunk or high enough, just saying i haven't

but i do have one who sends me presents and money sometimes, i flirt with her even though i don't find her attractive because we're friends and she has a thing for me

i am bi though, so half faggot, you were almost right there

you're taking the ugly fat chick comment to heart though, are you one?

>>18155054
The majority of Discordians are men.

>>18159329
Both

>>18159634

doesn't change what they sound like

>>18159639

i don't believe in it because it's clearly all bullshit, and in spite of being raised with the religion i have never once had a single experience that i could attribute to a christian god

i have however had other experiences

i'm against those faiths because i don't believe in the things they stand for, and i find the circular logic of all of the believers distasteful ("the bible is real because it's the word of god" "god is real because the bible says so")

i could go on for days about all my issues with that shit, but that's the abridged version

>>18159207

I have no fucking clue what to believe. I've talked to Gods so I'm sure they exist in some form but I'm not really sure how or why.

I was starting to form a theory on why they exist then one basically delivered a message to me saying "no one on earth really knows the truth no matter your belief. we're all just trying to figure out in our own way"

>>18157502


Read Condensed Chaos by Phil Hine and Liber Null & Psychonaut by Peter J. Carrol for the philosophy.

This is a good introduction. Don't get hung up on the methods, Chaos Magic's main value is it's philosophy and the stripped down stuff can be good for low energy projects or if you're in a bind sometimes but I find other systems work best. The only chaos magick technique I use over ceremonial is Phil HIne's Banishing Ritual. Prometheus Rising is suppose to be great too and has exercises for you to understand each chapter.

Then literally read anything else.

Magick Without Tears and Magick and Theory in Practice by Crowley are great introductions to ceremonial magick which can be used for a lot. It crossed over into my paganism a lot.

If you want to continue that path, look into the first few Golden Dawn Lectures and find some beginner books on the Kaballah. Kaballah was the main obstacle to me and it took a beginner book to make it make sense because Liber Null has a very poor explanation of it without context.

Or you could go the Pagan route in which I'd recommend trying to find translations from re-constructionists if possible. For Icelandic/Norse folk magic, I'd go with books from Stephen E. Flowers. He has a great book on Rune magick along with translations of old galdraboks. For Ancient Egyptian or Kemetic: Eternal Egypt: Ancient Rites for the Egyptian World and find a translation of both The Pyramid Texts and The Book of the Dead. For Hellenstic, the only thing I can think of is a translation of Graeco Egyptian Magickal Papyri. Honestly, there's so much about Ancient Egypt recorded that google and common sense will get you everything you need to know.

If the science side of Chaos Magic grabs you, go read Man and His Symbols and Red Book by Jung. Also, Liber Kaos.

If Crowley grabs you, then get Liber 777 and Book of Lies to work on the Kaballah.

If the Golden Dawn Knowledge Lectures grab you, look into Isreal Regardie's books.

>>18157534


That is the common perception of Wicca as it's been commodofied by New Age and made really fluffly bunny and flooded by amateur writers.

But I wouldn't paint all Wiccans with a broad paint brush. I've talked to a few that absolutely know their stuff.

Also, if you go back to Gardernarian Wicca, it was created by a student of Crowley and had much stronger links to occult knowledge. The Law of Three was much more RHP in it's original writing before the New Age movement made it all love and peace.

Wicca's not all bad, it's just flooded with a lot of shit.

>>18154940
>>18154953
so are we doing this?

>>18157539
>the edition published in The Disinformation Book of Lies and is not intended in any way to infringe on copyright, but simply desires maximum exposure to those who might not otherwise come in contact with these ideas. POP MAGIC! is Magic! for the People. Pop Magic! is Naked Magic! Pop Magic! lifts the 7 veils and shows you the tits of the Infinite."


Yes and no. It's honestly just a short essay he wrote for Disinfo's Book of Lies which has some good essays if you follow Chaos Magick.

It's esentially Grant Morrison, who's really well versed in Occult, saying "hey fucker, try this. You don't believe me? Then you have nothing lose but five minutes. Try in this way" in his eccentric drugged out writing style.

It's interesting and it's definitely trying to sell you chaos magick but it's not trying to sell it's self or it's own agenda to you.

I'd honestly reading Grant Morrison's Invisbles over that. The comic book is designed to make synchronicities pop up into your life and initiate you.

>>18157881


Give an offering related to them and read out loud the Orphyc Hymns.

Or look into invocations in general.

The Crowley instructions you linked to are great for Ceremonial but you can get some weaker results with completely different systems.

Look into Kemetic Reconstructionism, for example. I just mixed a few offering rituals from that to give thanks to Horus after he reached out to me and it ended up as an invocation.

In tradition, all those rituals will performed throughout the day and served the over-all function as an invocation so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at that result.

File: eris_36.jpg (44KB, 270x222px) Image search: [Google]

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I want to GENUINELY evoke Eris. What do y'all think of the idea of fasting throughout the day while listening to cacophonous noise rock and other music, then giving an offering of poetry I wrote myself, and finally throwing a party and getting fucked up on apple cider, bringing a chair with me and insisting nobody sit in it because it's reserved for a goddess? When the party ends, I'll put on some Doors records, sit in the chair, smoke some cloves, and pray.

>>18160234
Holy shit. Well, you've got balls. I'll give you that.

>>18157592
yeah i agree anon to me the book on hermetics is the Corpus Hermeticum lol

>>18160234
take psychedelics too

>>18160234
Play Drakengard's music instead.

>>18157548
Is there a pdf for Lectures on Ancient Philosophy that isn't shit quality?

>>18160041
I'm in the same boat. But I believe that whatever put us here, if you believe that evolution did, or god, "nature", or whatever. They put us here not to just say "well life sucks i'm gonna do nothing for the rest of my life". Or the other way "life wanted us to have fast cars and money and girls and shit.". "They" put us here to be the best person we can. To be a part of this human race. To be healthy, smart and happy.

I know it's generic but that's my theory on what's going on.

@Ape
Or any practicioner with some salt.
Yesterday during deep meditation (think like 2-3 hour long session) I decided to try work on what Crowley called assembling the body of light. To cut a long story short; I could feel... arms or wings growing from my back. Sort of this slow bubbling and stretching feeling before the extremity 'pulled' out from me.

Looking for an explanation on what the fuck I did.

>>18159218
>I understood that crowley did stuff "related" to satan.

And angels. And demons. And God. And various other gods. I don't think he was ever completely convinced that they existed outside his own mind, though.

>>18160083
>Magick Without Tears and Magick and Theory in Practice by Crowley are great introductions to ceremonial magick

Not really. Magick in Theory and Practice, is far from an introductory text.

>Book of Lies to work on the Kaballah.

Wat?

>>18161750
If you've never had an astral projection you were likely close.

My first few feels were like successively falling through multiple flimsy balsa wood floors.

>>18161389
Is mine shit?

>>18160154
^This.
There are also a goodly number of stray hymns elsewhere that would work perfectly.

>>18160113
>Disinfo's Book of Lies
Good shit.

>>18160250
Thanks.
>>18160481
Don't have any, sadly.
>>18160495
Like, the vidya?
>>18161767
'Ay Ape, any thoughts on this: >>18160234

Ways to make it more likely she'll show up, ways to be more aware of her if she does, etc.?

>>18161807

throw her chair outside when you've finished calling her

>>18161754
I see. Thanks K.
So keep doing what I was doing and it should lead to an AP Episode? Interesting.

>>18161899
I'm choosing to interpret this as a message from the Goddess. Thank you.

Hail Eris!

>>18158303
How much of the Warburg stuff is that microfilm you have in the MEGA?

>>18161968
*is in that

>>18161968
>>18161972
All of it.
I have nine out of 14 films, so like 2/3rds of the Yorke Microfilms are present.

I've also got a handful of the Sloane MSS over in the folder labelled as such.

What happened to the mega?

>>18161835
This is a great idea. You'll know the Goddess has answered your call if WW3 starts the next day.

>>18162571
That wasn't her fault, though. Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite couldn't put their egos aside long enough to let someone else feel like the prettiest on her wedding day.

>>18162584

it was fated to happen, so "fault" is irrelevant, it was paris' fate to decide before there was even a wedding the only thing the decision did was pick how the war started

arguing about "fault" when it was a matter of "fate" is senseless, there's just no such thing

>>18162566
It's still there

https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ

Starting on Blazing Dew. Will probably make a thread announcing it with the Secret School of Wisdom.

>>18161835
>feel a strong connection to a deity
>she's changed my life for the better and I am extremely grateful
>so what I thought I'd do is, I'd be really nice to her then suddenly re-create the most famous moment when she was treated like shit
That last one doesn't seem like a reasonable response to the first two.

I want to learn a form of artistic expression for magical purposes. It can be visual, auditory, some kind of performance art, or whatever else. Obviously I'll decide for myself, but I'm taking recommendations, especially if you have cool examples.

>>18163468
Amazing.

>>18163468
Good stuff! Looking forward to it.

The other day I helped my apprentice to open his third eye and experience a blissful change in consciousness. Since doing so, he has become much more calm and at one with the Force. It is truly wonderful to help others achieve a mystical experience.

>>18163518

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sEWBZZWmco

In some Indian belief systems, this world began with sound. The ragas, essentially holy hymns to be played on instruments at certain dates and times based on astrology, etc., are a good place to start. Once you can play a classical raga without conscious effort, you can be benefitted in many ways. I would suggest purchasing a classical Indian instrument and learning their holy music to begin a music-based magical practice.

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>>18163590
>>18163551
Half done.

File: 098-ryuu.jpg (240KB, 600x784px) Image search: [Google]

240KB, 600x784px

>>18163598
Mind sharing with us how to open our third eye?

.l.

>>18163691
fasting expedited my awakening. (i'm not the one who you were talking to btw)

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i've lurked a bit in these threads but it's all still so confusing. do you guys just pick some magick that you like best aesthetically and then believe it and hope for the best? or have you read all the books and felt one has more weight than the rest? i know a million people ask where to start, and then these lists of like 25 books and they all seem so labyrinthine with their logic when i google them.

do you believe there is truth in every book? surely there has to be some that are more legit than other?

maybe what i'd like to know is, more experienced people - what has your path been from start to current? why are you practicing whatever it is you've chosen to practice?

>>18163807
Luciferian Witch here. I don't remember how I got onto this path, it kind of just happened over time. I started at age 12 with Wicca, and then had a long period of doubtful Christianity, which evolved into Taoism then I also became Luciferian after becoming enlightened. I have yet to have read a book written by a mortal that guided me whatsoever.
That being said, you could gain as much from reading "Clifford the Big Red Dog" as you could the bible. It's all about your perception.
I avoid paying for occult books. "sacred texts" is a good option if you're looking into learning from Grimoires, however, and gaining other valuable information. There are a lot of similar, free websites out there full of great occult info.

>>18163807
Im sure Th0th or more experienced magicians will weigh on too but:
>pick some magick that you like best aesthetically
Thats a factor yeah.

>believe it and hope for the best?
As simple as that sounds, that's a major part of it, yeah. And it's not quite as simple as it sounds either.
>have you read all the books and felt one has more weight than the rest?
This also happens, though a single book doesnt need to be the "weightiest" to have value. Different books will have different values to different people, and at different times. What may be incomprehensible now, may be your next working book. What seems simple and basic now, may look labyrinthine tomorrow with a deeper understanding of the mechanics.

>they all seem so labyrinthine with their logic when i google them.
If you can be more specific about whats puzzling you, that might be a better question.

>surely there has to be some that are more legit than other?
I don't think so honestly, there are a lot of books that are very crude and rudimentary and probably have questionable intent, but Ive found gems even in these.

>what has your path been from start to current? why are you practicing whatever it is you've chosen to practice?
Like a lot of people I picked up basic paganism, wicca, witchcraft stuff at a young age, I went on into higher magick, crowley, golden dawn, A.A., and found it to be overly-elaborate and dramatic.
(this is PURELY personal opinion and aesthetic, no disrespect is meant to ceremonial magicians)

This lead me into studying some jung, chaos magick, and the more modern paradigms, which were honestly some of the most enlightening and forced me to revisit a lot of what Id previously learned.

I started studying extremely primitive belief systems via an interest in anthropology and came around to afro-carribean traditions and now strictly practice low magics with a more informed mind, and eye.on the deeper mechanics.

>>18163807
>or have you read all the books and felt one has more weight than the rest?
Yeah, I've got a library of five thousand texts, the vast majority of which I've read.

>do you believe there is truth in every book?
Nope.

>surely there has to be some that are more legit than other?
Yup. Generally speaking source texts do best. Broadly speaking I'm into well researched ceremonial materials and academic analysis.

I practice what I do because it gets the results I want.

>>18163642
Done, should I go ahead and make a new thread for the two new books?

>>18163838
>>18163852

honestly, i grew up in a borderline abusively christian household. i've since been agnostic for a few years now. but i still have these pangs of fear towards anything luciferian (or magick in general) - i'd assume this stems from my upbringing. i find magick fascinating but i'm afraid to dip my toe in because of this innate fear of hell and generally just pissing off whatever god/gods has created us. so i try to weigh out what i read and see if anything feels legit enough to me to dive in. if i could read something that doesn't upset my conscience maybe it will ring true enough for me to try practicing something. but for now the most true feeling philosophy to me is that to claim to know anything about the divine is it's own sacrilege - hence why i've settled on agnosticism.

but i keep having these philosophical manic episodes where i just sit and think about the intentions of this creator godhead and what it means for morality. whenever i take things to logical extremes via the abrahamic doctrines of my upbringing i come to conclusions that set my innate christian alarms ringing and i abort and go watch something mindless for awhile until the urges to keep exploring come back and i rinse and repeat. it's highly frustrating.

all that to say, the idea that i should pick something that calls out to me doesn't work for me because i have this fear of all of it. however i do often find a sort of peace in considering how religions would have been born in isolation. just me and my tribe, around the fire starring at the moon, wondering how it all began. this seems like a pure experiment free from the power struggles that corrupt doctrine. any suggestions of a path for me? or am i just fucked until i accept that my panic is a flawed programming and just dive in?

>>18163874
what results do you want?

I'm becoming really frustrated with my summoning attempts through ceremonial magick. Everything is on point, but for a month now I've been attempting and I can't even claim to witness a single candle flicker in a suspcious way. I'm feeling deeply discouraged by this point. Has anyone been through the same?

>>18163874
>Done, should I go ahead and make a new thread for the two new books?

Nice! Whenever you're ready desu. Looking forward to downloading it when I wake up.

>>18163931
it can admittedly be a lot to take in. thinking about god, and what he may have planned. etc.
I wouldn't sweat it, to be honest. Just do what you're comfortable with, stretching yourself only as you wish. Don't force anything unless you know what you're getting into.
You'll be okay.
I am less afraid of Hell only because I've already experienced it.
If your fear is hurting you, you shouldn't do it.
I see great potential in you, should you attempt to combat your fears.
I had the same thing as you growing up, to a lesser extent perhaps. My mother was a crazily devout mormon. I was terrified of God. But thru Lucifer and his enlightenment he bestowed on me, I no longer fear anything.
It's all your own path, darling. I can't help you decide.

>>18164017
>I am less afraid of Hell only because I've already experienced it.

could you please elaborate on this?

>>18164044
sure thing. I've had some pretty harsh years in my 23 years of living. I've experienced it all. I've been to the bottom, through the middle, and at the top.
Hell exists wherever you expect it. We can and do go through it in this mortal existence. Many never leave it.
As for it continuing after death, that is up to god.
I've had cancer, depression, anxiety, embarrassment, hospitilizations (those were the worst parts of my life). I no longer fear Hell because I've already been there. That's it.
PS. The same can be said for Heaven.

>>18163931
My first comment to you is what justification do you have that the christian god is the legitimate god to base your world-view upon? This is not a challenge to those who think this, its a question for you to consider.

There are many gods, and many religions, all of them equally certain (or uncertain) that they are the correct ones. Had you been born in india, china or elsewhere, there is a high likelihood you would not have had that upbringing.... what makes it "real" to you besides societal conditioning?

>this seems like a pure experiment free from the power struggles that corrupt doctrine. any suggestions of a path for me?
Well to be perfectly honest you sound like youre having similar thought patterns to me when I started researching very ancient beliefs. Id encourage you to look into shamanism and primitive belief structures, even if it is only scholastic. You may find something interesting there considering your interests.

One final question to ponder, what is your religious and spiritual belief really founded in? Faith? Fear? Threats? Love? Respect? What keeps you being 'religious'? My assertion is that if the answer is not solidly "love" "respect" "self empowerment" or something of that nature, you may want to consider why you remain true to those beliefs. I personally refuse to subscribe to any ideology which inherently utilizes threats, coercion or fear to "convince" me. I think the reasoning why is fairly obvious.

>>18164017
>>18164092
thanks for this. i appreciate your openness. honestly i feel like i have so much negative energy strapped to abrahamic religions that i'd just want to avoid it any association with it and go towards something totally different. maybe something daoist or pagan or idk some sort of zoroastrian type thing.

question for everybody - since all (or most) of these paths have their own truths and strengths and are mostly accepted as being able to co-exist and built off one another - is there some overarching theory on how and why all of this stuff from differing (and often in direct confrontation with each other) is able to exist and function together? where does the power come from? is it within us or is there an external force or are we part of that external force? is there a consensus? like if i were to summon a demon or a god from the pantheon or vishnu, am I speaking to that entity in it's basest form, or are those all masks of some more alien or quasi-dimensional force or just a personified extension of the self or what exactly is going on?

>>18164144
>My first comment to you is what justification do you have that the christian god is the legitimate god to base your world-view upon?

i guess i don't have a legitimate reason, just learned behavior. it's how i've grown up to process the world. however, i am agnostic and open to any of the ideas if i can keep back that fear of sacrilege that's been programmed into me.

>what is your religious and spiritual belief really founded in?

honestly, i think about empathy and purpose constantly. in our most primitive forms our purpose was probably based on conquest and survival. empathy almost feels like this otherworldly idea that has been manifest on us from some unknown agent. so my idea of god is the answer to why we are empathetic and fixed on morality and not just a meritocratic hive society of drones. it's gotten me nowhere, but it feels right to me. maybe i should stop trusting these feelings?

>>18164158
>since all (or most) of these paths have their own truths and strengths and are mostly accepted as being able to co-exist and built off one another

the fact that you already realized this is impressive to me. After knowing this, hypothetically it doesn't really matter where you turn after that.

>It is all the same.

It's all directly interconnected and related. Look into Taoist philosophy as to why. It's to do with "Duality".

Zoroastrianism does sound interesting. It is dying out though. :(

Hinduism or Buddhism might be a good one for avoiding Abrahamic tradition etc. Random fact, I may be a bodhisattva myself.

>>18164185
>fear of sacrilege
that hardly seems very agnostic if you'll pardon me pointing it out, I mean no disrespect. If you are agnostic to the existence of the deity, why are not agnostic to the sanctity of its supposed demands as well? Im forwarding the idea that you do not 'believe' these things, you are conditioned to do them whether or not you believe them. Something to think about.

> in our most primitive forms our purpose was probably based on conquest and survival.
>empathy almost feels like this otherworldly idea that has been manifest on us from some unknown agent.
This contradicts modern biological science. In nearly all certainty, the one thing that really set humans apart culturally was in fact, our empathy, our ability to cooperate and our ability to be magnanimous. It was not in SPITE of empathy that we survived and conquered, indeed it was because of it. Survival and conquest don't get you very far on their own. It wasnt until we learned to cooperatively hunt, fish, developed agriculture and rudimentary structures, that we began to craft civilization. All of these things absolutely required empathy and cooperation. It is these things that permitted the survival of our relatively weak, unarmed, and fragile species. We developed these traits out of evolutionary necessity, not divine providence (though you can argue that evolutionary development IS divine providence, thats another discussion).

Either way, if the concepts of empathy and purpose are the driving forces for you, you need to really examine whether your faith gives you empathy and purpose, or whether you have maintained those traits despite its demands.

>>18164233
you sir, are and idiot

>>18164243
k

>>18164200
>It's all directly interconnected and related. Look into Taoist philosophy as to why. It's to do with "Duality".
would like to know more on this. my best guess would be that daoism says we're all cut from that same cloth as the initial force that brought us into being and so we can manifest portions of this entity through shared belief and practice. but wouldn't this also mean these entities are subject to our design and so in theory we could choose to craft any idea we like? if so, why is there a need for ancient doctrine when i can just say my god has XYZ attributes and looks like this?

>>18164233
>that hardly seems very agnostic
you're totally right. but it ties into my feeling that empathy is the only echo left of the entity that gave us sentience and success as a civilization. it makes me think that if there is a good then there must also be punishment for abandoning good. whether that just be karmic or cosmic or dimensional or whatever i've no idea. but that's where my programmed fears manifest the worst case scenario.

>the one thing that really set humans apart
animals are empathetic as well. a mother will protect her cubs. but why? it's not really needed for survival. we can be social and build structures in the name of self-preservation and exploration without feeling a thing for one another. it doesn't seem like something we would just evolve into.

>>18164294
>it makes me think that if there is a good then there must also be punishment for abandoning good.
If by "good" we mean altruism and empathy, there's a built in punishment, ostracization and exclusion from other humans who help you to survive. You can believe in a karmic or divine punishment if you wish as well, Im just saying it's not required. You can do a google search for "human empathy and evolution" or something similar, and youll get a bunch of hits about empathy and altruism as evolved traits, itll be interesting reading.

>that's where my programmed fears manifest the worst case scenario.
The most effective techniques for controlling people involve playing on these basal fears and natural impulses, especially when inducing cognitive dissonance "be kind, but kill the heathen" "love your neighbor but stone him if he breaks an arbitrary rule" Structures like this are extremely effective at generating control.

>animals are empathetic as well.
Yes absolutely, some of them are, that doesnt mean it's NOT an evolved trait, in fact its evidence for it, not against it.

>a mother will protect her cubs. but why? it's not really needed for survival.
That is absolutely critical to survival, if the young dont survive, the species doesnt survive.

> in the name of self-preservation and exploration without feeling a thing for one another.
We CAN, but it's extremely difficult especially in the context of the longer history of humanity. At some point people have to cooperate and show some kind of empathy towards one another to participate in group activities like these.

>it doesn't seem like something we would just evolve into.
I think if you read some of the current biological theories, it will make more sense. Humans as they are could have evolved any other way. Now all that said, Im not trying to disprove vicinity, or it's role in making us altruistic or empathetic. It's just that its not a necessary component for those things to have occurred.

>>18164318
>Humans as they are could NOT have evolved any other way.

>>18164318
I'll google up some biological theories on this. However, it just doesn't seem totally logical. A society could just as easily come from a highly intelligent creature that doesn't care about morals or arts or even really self-awareness above just being part of a greater structure.

>>18164320
I'm not saying we couldn't, I'm saying by chance or fate we did. But why? It doesn't seem nessicery for evolution and society.

Either way I didn't mean to turn this into this sort of discussion. I think i have a decent handle on my hangups and am looking to fix them. But i've just got a billion annoying questions. You guys have given me lots of good answers and search terms - thanks for that. Now I think I am mostly looking for incite into how these supposed godlike structures might manifest through your personal readings and experience? Why is doctrine needed if it's all from willpower and stardust? Why are we not all just supersaiyans flying around with our godbros? These entities tend to have needs and goals and personalities of their own. They expect things from us. What is being exchanged?

>>18164294
>why is there a need for ancient doctrine when i can just say my god has XYZ attributes and looks like this?

there isn't. 'doctrine' can be used just like any other clue in life, but it is unnecessary as a whole to even worry about.

>>18164346
Read neoplatonism. It's the pure Greek religous philosophy that influenced the abrahamic traditions. But not enough. If you haven't already read Plato and Aristotle read those too.

Empathy is selected for evolutionary because individual genetic lines are less important than genepools.

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I'll start with the most obvious. Beelzebub. He reminds me of a more badass, demonic version of Sherlock Holmes. Cold, calculating, knowledgable, dark.

I'd love to describe Ashtaroth too, but don't wanna get too greedy. Spill the beans on certain traits you know (preferably) first hand from our favorite goetic nemisi.

>>18164346
> a highly intelligent creature that doesn't care about morals or arts or even really self-awareness above just being part of a greater structure.
Even a hive-mind exhibits a rudimentary form of altruism and empathy through shared feelings and thoughts. I would argue that NO actual civilization could have formed without art, and morals and self-awareness. These are fundamental to any advanced culture, lacking them we would be nothing but a violent territorial mess of tribal conflicts over resources. We exhibit far more than that, and that is what has put us on top.

I dont think Im making the case very well and so Ill leave you to do a little reading and form your own opinion, youre a smart person, Im sure youll form a strong educated opinion.

>I'm not saying we couldn't
I know IM saying that, Im saying we literally could not have evolved to what we are in any other way. We lack the raw survivability of other animal species and culture and society by way of altruism and empathy are how we made it. I agree were getting off topic, check otu some articles see what you think.

>how these supposed godlike structures might manifest through your personal readings and experience?
In my experience, the problem is how much seperation we normally place between ourselves and the divine. Gods are neither just figments that we invoke to encourage change, like affirmation therapy or role playing. Neither are they entirely independent from us. Doctrine is required because these entities are self replicating their own sort of spheres of influence, or patterns. When we help to encourage the replication of those patterns or spheres of influence, they become more powerful through reinforcement, we usually call them specifically for purposes that are within their sphere of influence so they are eager to help. What is being exchanged is mutual desire for a certain energy, or thought.

A lot of this is covered in how chaos magick views things.

>>18164395
Ignore my terrible mistake. pls

>>18164395
you mean Saturn

>>18164388
thanks for the recs. i've read bits of all of them but I guess it's time to dive in now.

>>18164398
i get the sense that chaos magick is the deconstructed base that i'm looking for. but then once understood, people often like to go towards older ideas because of the power they've gained over time, right? like, chaos magick is sort of an entry level practice and most do not just settle on it?

>>18164437
a lot of chaotes are really just armchair theoreticians with no more practical magic experience than wanking off on a few sigils. older ideas are not necessarily better. in fact, often times they are archaic or absurd. but once one identifies a memetic entity (a fnord) then it becomes apparent in both the new and the old.

Liber null
psychonaut
liber kaos
oven ready chaos
pseudonomicon
the black ship

are there any other essential reads in chaos magic?

what about Carroll's PsyberMagick, The Apophenion, The Octavo and EPOCH?

>>18161767
>Is mine shit?
yes

>>18163598
>Since doing so, he has become much more calm and at one with the Force.

*snort*

>>18163852
>As simple as that sounds, that's a major part of it, yeah.

Belief doesn't matter much.

>>18163951
>Everything is on point,

You have a dedicated ritual space and the necessary equipment? You have done all the preparatory prayers and fasting?

>>18163691

not them, but i was taught how and i've done it, so i can give you that method there are other ways so if this doesn't work for you that doesn't mean you can't do it

close your eyes and focus on the space where your third eye should be, and clear your head, breathe and concentrate

after doing this for a while i would see nothing but an empty purple space somewhere between smoke and water, and lose sensation in my body with the exception of my third eye area

after that there's a build up of pressure there, it goes away don't worry about it, instead imagine that space opening up

you just take it slow and breathe

and as you feel your third eye open the pressure will go away

then it's like being pulled through something, and i've seen stars, felt waves of euphoria and then just this wide open darkness where only sensation exists and it feels like i can feel everyone in my vicinity

that's how it used to be for me, i can't meditate and control my third eye anymore

after a ritual was done that i wanted no part in i just feel permanently open at a halfway point , can't shut it or open it more

but since that's unlikely to happen to you, this method might work well for a long time

>>18163807

well for me it's that i'm trying to learn about things to put experiences i've had into perspective

i've had things happen, i've had people tell me i've been called, and nagging dreams of dionysus and a lot has happened

so i'm here, but if you're just interested you should try to learn a little about different things and see what speaks to you

or just call out and see what happens

this was unavoidable for me, but i don't see why you couldn't do something similar

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>>18164812
please respond I'm a girl btw!

>>18165236
>Belief doesn't matter much.

nice opinion friend

>>18164812
>are there any other essential reads in chaos magic?

KAOS 14

>>18165388

Nope. Fact of experience.

>>18164110

>>18163691

a couple of things before you try, some people find it helpful to imagine a protective white light around them while doing this

and balancing first, i was taught one way of balancing involving the points of a star and on your body

every point is an element, earth, air, fire, and water and your third eye is spirit

you balance them by connecting each point to the elements and then you open your third eye

i haven't done it in a while so i might not remember properly so double check this but it's right leg earth, left arm air, right arm fire, left leg water, then your third eye

balancing helps clear your head

this is the way i was taught, not what i do

i find it much easier to get really high and or drunk, close my eyes, descend, connect myself fully rather than at points and open up from there

that works for me, found it out when it came to me in what sounded like a suggestion when i tried to clear my head and balance with no success

it's exactly what it sounds like though, descending deep down into what feels like a different stream of consciousness, then immersing yourself in each element one at a time until you're surrounded by all of it

from there you rise out of it by opening your third eye, the last point

it used to feel like that for me, but now it feels more like everything just fades away into nothingness, no pulling or pressure, just everything was balanced then everything is gone and i feel the same as i always do, wide open

the way you connect is personal on some level

So... I have been casting for money and my grandpa is pretty sick at 82 years old.

Long before I casted anything, when he got ill (cancer) in a totally unrelated note I did a tarot spread and was told his illness would bring discord to the family (which certainly has) and abundance for me.

Over the months I've been casting for money and prosperity, and have had a ridiculous amount of work offers and new clients popping up everywhere. It's been good, but I'm afraid I might have set some things in motion I shouldn't have. I don't usually do the "harming none" thing when making the statement of intent.

He got the tumors removed but now he's back in the hospital with an infection. I'm pretty worried he's going to kick the bucket. I feel like shit actually. I should go evoke Raphael or some shit to help him but at the same time for some reason feel like I shouldn't.

Sorry for the blog.

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>>18165420
Based Ape

>>18165480
Remember to get him to sign his body over as your property, bones are expensive.

>>18165480

alternatively the cards could have meant that his illness would inspire you to cast, rather than his illness being something you have control over

death is part of life, blaming yourself for his infection and assuming you have control over his circumstance is a lot of misplaced energy

I did a sigil for a girlfriend some weeks ago and that same weekend I got invited to a party where I met an absolutely delicious qt3.14159. There was chemistry but I barely talked to her because I'm a sperg. That night I dreamt we were together. I'm positive I won't see her again.

So, I casted for something without being prepared to accept the manifestation. How much did I fuck up?

>>18157839
Post that meme then. I haven't seen it.

>>18165513
>How much did I fuck up?

It's a fuck up, but a lesson, too. You can ask for something that you are not prepared to accept. The key is to know yourself, something more valuable than most anything you think you want.

What happens if I do an evocation and then make the Ganzfeld Effect happen? Is there a decent chance of seeing/hearing whatever I evoked?

>>18165575
I know I'm 29 and the last time I had sex I was 19. What I don't know is why I am such a pussy when it comes to women. I'm sociable, and I certainly know how to make other people like me. I've considered the possibility I'm gay, but that's not it. I guess I'm just afraid?

Who can I invoke to set my shit straight?

>>18154866
How do I get into the occult? Where do I start?

>>18165724
Robert Anton Wilson's Prometheus Rising. Then possibly Kabala Magic and the Great Work of Self Transformation or something by Peter Carroll depending on your predisposition.

>>18165682

Are you up for some meditation? Hyatt's, Undoing Yourself with Energized Meditation and Other Devices, in conjunction with zazen will help get a handle on yourself.

I'd consider looking into Freud. Might be mother issues lurking about.

>>18165830
I actually downloaded Undoing Yourself with Energized Meditation not long ago. I'll look into it.

Not sure if it could be mommy issues. She's literally the only person in my family I have a sincere and open relationship with.

Anyway, thanks.

>>18165941
>She's literally the only person in my family I have a sincere and open relationship with.

That could conceivably be the problem. I was very close to my mother. The behaviors learned were great for making friends, but not necessarily for getting laid.

>>18160234
Nigga, are you serious? You dont need all that sheit, just go for a hot dog, a golden apple, 5 balloons, 10 sticky eyes, and put it all together while in the middle of a public park while you cast the turkey curse. After all that go away walking normally and ask your pineal gland before sleeping, 100% rate of success without any of the fnords ;)