Occultism & Magick: Library Update 36

>>18080823
Benedict:
Check ur email fgt.

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So, has anyone tried summoning a goetic spirit. If so how did it go? I need the information for something, i'm trying to get an ex's attention back and i need pic related to do it.

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>>18080927
I saw you in the other thread.
You should stay there.

>>18080935
Thread died, , had to migrate, i need answers.

>>18080948
Shit dude, you're everywhere.
Stop messing with universal powers to get your ex. Buy the poor thing some dinner you cheap fuck. Probably what got wrong in the first place.

im trying to download the files but its stuck on decrypting folder data

what do?

Any left-hand writings by female magicians? I was reading Apophis and a line about how the male and female magician can have different paths makes me think I should be reading something feminine in nature that isn't "raarh muh goddess I am womyn"

Mostly having trouble with the sexual magic side of things.

>>18081112
okay thats spoopy

is that like a gif error?

>>18081096
Fuck everything. Let there be chaos man. Let people do what people do this world is too old already

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I wanted to ask Ape and anyone ITT about this thing I read in Indoeuropean Poetry and Myth by West:

Prayers are predicated on the belief that the gods are like human potentates who have the means to grant boons and may do so if asked nicely, or may decline to. Man proposes, God disposes. It is acknowledged that the outcome depends on the deity’s will: [...] ‘as the gods wish, so will it be’ [...] in almost identical phrasing [...] ‘so it will be for us as he (Mazda) wishes’; [...] ‘the god will grant one thing and ignore another, whatever his heart wishes’.

The basic difference between a prayer and a spell, between religion and magic, is that the latter does not depend on persuasion. The incantation or ritual, if correctly uttered or performed, automatically produces the desired result. If supernatural powers are involved in bringing it about, they are not persuaded but compelled. If the magic is unsuccessful, some mistake must have been made in the words used or the actions executed. In hymns and prayers it is the content that counts, not the wording; as we have seen, new hymns were constantly being composed (until the point when the Veda became a sacrosanct text, to be memorized verbatim), and new prayers were made to suit circumstances. Spells and incantations, on the other hand, were esoteric knowledge, supposed to be fixed and unchanging.

Is he right?

Is it really consistent across the Indoeuropean cultures in particular, and humanity in general, that religious ritual and prayer asks supernatural wills to intervene and change things, and that magic overrides, commands and bypasses them to produce direct results?

Also there's the very expensive, comprehesive recent and lengthy Wiley-Blackwell Companion to Zoroastrianism on [spoiler]Bookzz[/spoiler], you might want to add it to the collection, Ape.

>>18081359
>Is it really consistent...

No of course it isn't. It depends entirely on the culture from which it comes, and what magical traditions the magic/prayer is based on. Some systems exclusively use spiritual intercession (whether the spirits are actually interceding or not is another discussion), while others use purely "will based" magical operations without asking for intercession.

You can't simply package some 15,000 years of human tradition into a false dichotomy, no matter how comfortable it might feel to do so.

>>18081426
Guess what. It's all coming from hermetics. There I said it. Hermes, ancient Egyptian, master, mystic, possibly even alien. He literally started it all.

>>18081436
even if you take hermes' roots to be arcadian in origin, at BEST the name hermes has been used since the 4th century BC.

There are more than a few magical and esoteric schools with a considerably older vintage.

Honestly playing the "mine is older" game is really pointless. Either way it's demonstrably not all coming from hermetics.

The hermetic principles were, and continue to be very important to all magic(k)al schools, but they were far from the origin of every system.

I'm trying to get into that Mega link, but the page gets stuck at the Decrypting phase.

Ideas?

>>18081117
Linda Falorio

>>18081580
Wow, thanks so much. I honestly didn't think anything noteworthy had been published and she has a couple of books very relevant.

Cheers m8, hope you have good works today.

>>18081569
Aye. Register to MEGA.

>>18081116
>>18081569

You need an account and to sign in.

>>18081624
...oh and anyone have experience with Shadow Tarot? Feelings compared to standard? I never really considered traditional tarot leaning either right or left.

Hooo boy. Mr. Ape, thanks for leaving traces of Ida Craddock's name/work in the archive and some other fascinating titles that are hard to find. If you hadn't, I never would've heard of her name or The Starry Rubric book by Dr. Alexander Cummins. I saw his short clip on geomancy and I'm really digging his introduction since I'm working on geomancy too.

>tfw it's an expensive hardback and no funds or book space for it atm

I finished reading Ida Craddock's available works I can find weeks ago. What a journey. The simplicity of the language is nice. Reminds me of reading a dissertation which intimidated me on how dense some bits became once she busted out her sources though.

The thing is, her explanations (with the help of her guides) to obtain happiness and enlightenment in this world is simple and mad in theory despite the numerous sources she listed to back up her words, but the actual practical application is hard/dangerous if you're not serious about it. No wonder people back then got wigged out from her writing. They could read it, but not understand the other half of its purpose, compared to say, older works who deliberately obfuscate or are out of reach for an outside reader.

Either that or they got wigged out when she dropped the bomb to the public that she got married to a heavenly groom and they must've immediately thought, "I READ THE WRITINGS OF A POSSESSED CRAZY WOMAN!?! SHE'S LURING THE MASSES TO SIN WITH LEWD TEACHINGS. BURN THE WITCH. PERSECUTE!1!11!"

>>18081630
Hm sorry mate, haven't got the chance with that or with the RWS deck. I've only been working with a Marseilles deck for a while since it's more common and cheaper here than RWS. I think it depends on a deck what sort of matters it's strong and weak in. It's voice that is.

There's also the matter of how you work with it. A deck that you could easily connect with after seeing its images would be much better in the long run.

>>18081700
>actual practical application is hard/dangerous
Welcome to the Occult.

>No wonder people back then got wigged out from her writing.
The hardcore feminism didn't help.
>"I'm a stronk independent womyn who don't need no man (because the angels slip me the sausage each night)."

>LEWD TEACHINGS
No more lewd than what the Beguines were passing off, and now they have Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat.

My spider senses tell me Vere's working on a new book. He's been screwing around with the source papers again.

>>18081366
Thanks for the heads up.

>>18081359
>magic, is that the latter does not depend on persuasion. The incantation or ritual, if correctly uttered or performed, automatically produces the desired result
No. Or, at least it depends on the tradition. Some magic takes nigh superhuman effort.

>commands
Simply persuasion by authority. You have to given them a reason to stfu jot down orders in the first place.

so should I buy a thoth deck if I only have a ryder one atm?

>>18081741
Only if you want it.
R/W is fine.
I'd really only not recommend goofy fuckin' theme decks that screw with the procession of trumps with zero justification.
I think Sinister Tarot's the only one I except from this guideline.

>>18081741

As an illustrated guide to Crowley's knowledge of the occult, the Thoth deck is awesome. Beyond that, it's really just what you personally find appealing.

>>18081751
>>18081748
thanks

is there a book of thoth pdf out there that isnt poor quality OCR?

>>18081770

Don't know, sorry. I still have it in paperback.

>>18081780
>>18081770
Pretty sure there's a copy on bibliotecapyedes (sp?). That's where I go if I need to quote it online.

How vivid is visualization supposed to be? I am interested in the Art of Memory and Middle Pillar / LRP and have been working on both lately. Unfortunately, when I try to visualize I can hardly maintain a steady image with any sort of vividness and just kinda "fake it". Is it supposed to be like a dreamscape and fully immersive? If so, how do I up my skills?

>>18081887
>Is it supposed to be like a dreamscape and fully immersive?
At greater levels of proficiency.
> If so, how do I up my skills?
Practice. Yoga. Try holding still images in your head. Geometric figures, etc. Count how long it stays steady without a break or interruption. Try to increase that number via contemplative discipline.

BTW people who say they literally "can't" or it's too hard have literally never tried, or are lying, as we've identified areas of linguistic processing that are pre-linguistic (i.e. we have signals coming from spatial sectors of the brain that start to trigger word crystallization around that spatial image).

>>18081714
>Welcome to the Occult.
If only my younger foolish self knew that before I got myself started in this. Ah, I wish I could quit you, oh wonderful roller-coaster world of Occult.

But back to Ms. Craddock's works, she's a woman on a mission and she didn't take shortcuts with her work. So despite how she exposed Comstock's wrongdoing during his catfishing method of her materials (which seemed to be his stock bait method for his other targets), it's saddening how much his stark opposition caused her to pick suicide as a way to get her message across. I mean, think of the potential works she could've produced! People she could've influenced further had she been alive to hear her sentencing and see Comstock fall later.

>The hardcore feminism didn't help.
Society's attitude back during her time didn't help either. Anyway she found her other half in her bridegroom so she was content with him enough. She'd probably thought about having to search high and low for a physical man that would want to be with her and could be open-minded about her teachings once upon a time, but changed her mind since she had people to help and important stuff to write.

For realz though, even today in modern times, if you briefly talk just a teensy bit to the average joe about the Occult, you'd have to brave the terrible battery of frequently asked questions/notions like:

A) ask if you're a mind reader
B) ask for love spells
C) ask for money spells
D) think you're doing some bad stuff
E) ask to curse someone else
F) tell you you're going against X religion's teachings and you'd end up in whatever version of the underworld they have when you die
G) think you're joking
H) be afraid of you
I) think you're crazy

...which is a big hurdle if ya wanna get experimental for the sake of science, I mean, enlightenment in the realm of sexual alchemy. Makes me jelly of those Chinese emperors/empresses of old who had the freedom to take their pick of willing participants.

Does the Solomons summoning circle require the serpant patern?

Ape make yourself useful. Where do I get hatharatnavali without paying out of my ass?

Do you guys have any recommendations for books on how to into Alchemy, especially for someone already pretty familiar with esotericism? I know it would be good to jump straight into the original alchemical texts but they are a tough read and I think it would be good to have some background and commentary to go along with it to make it more palatable to my puny modern intellect. I'm already pretty competent with Astrology and Magic so texts that note and relate to that would be welcome. Knowing them already it seems like Hermes' third art would be a good way to proceed.

>>18081994
>hatharatnavali
25$
http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/hatharatnavali-treatise-on-hata-yogas-and-tantra-NAJ885/

>>18080823
Do you have a torrent?

>>18082051
Not of the current library?
Having issues with the link loading?
You need to have an account.

Can someone help me out? I need to know wvery detail about a somonic circle..

>>18082057
>every detail
There are more circles than in the editions of Lemegeton you're used to. A serpent is not required. Variance is high in the manuscripts.

>>18082061
Well , i want to be as safe as possible when summoning sallos.

>>18082063
Fuck off and read more. I'm not spoonfeeding your for grill problems. I over close to a dozen editions of Lemegeton. Pick one and stick with it.

Come back to tell us your results or when you have a real actual problem.

>>18082066
Alright then? Im just looking for depictions of some of the more sinple varients.

Anyone worked with Duquette's Tarot of Ceremonial Magick? I read in Low Magick he did a ceremony to consecrate it. Seems like a interesting, but complicated deck due to how busy each card is.

>>18082077
Not be shit.

>>18082077
>>18082077
>>> I offer close to a dozen editions of Lemegeton

>>18082086
I've never worked a Duquette anything.

>>18082077
If you want to do something like this you have to put in a certain amount of work. You should at least read the Lemegeton itself and probably also a book like Secrets of the Magickal Grimoires by Aaron Leitch

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>>18082091
>>18082094
>>18082097
Right, well, i'll look more into it. But is one seems simple enough to fit my needs

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Does O9A have actual printed works? I like collecting all the magical content I can get my hands on for my library and would love if they have any hardbacks I could find.

If not O9A specifically, any of their derivative sources they base their practices on would work.

>>18082103
Work on yourself is what I mean. Everything else is a byproduct of that.

>>18082107
Which one are you?/

>>18082109
>>18082091

>>18082126
Ah, well, whatever, not sure you know the context of thins.

>>18082103
You can omit the Hebrew when inscribing this, the geometry is the most important. Keep the "T" in all the stars, though.

>>18082132
So i would be able to write the name of the deity i worship in english? Okay cool.

>>18082024
>25$
fuck off.

>>18081714
>Vere's working on a new book
That'll be sweet. I've always liked reading his footnotes.

>>18082138
Cheapest edition I can find.
If want it scanned, buy it/find it and post it. Like I do.

>>18082136
Hebrew made sense for the Jews who popularized it. I guess its fine if you wanna do magic like a classic nigga

>>18082147
Fair enough.

>>18082136
Get out of the thread, stop asking entry level questions, and compare protocols between Lemegeton editions.

Jesus goddamn Christ can you be any more lazy?

>>18082158
Einstein has said, why dedicate something to memory when you can just look it up.

>>18082158
And i couldnt find anything but crowley's model for the summoning circle.

>>18082164
But he's not looking it up, he's asking us to while the primary sources are at the top of the page.

>>18082166
>Go to the link in the op
>open the "grimoires" folder and "Sloane MSS" folder
>???
>perform lemegeton

>>18082170
Rigut, sorry, must've failed a spot check there.

But i still found a fairly simplistic circle thatbwill hopefully work.

>>18082174
Fuck off.
Be a grownup.
Crack open a book.

>>18082177
No need to be rude, man.

Where can one find a high quality rosicrucian cross to wear about one's neck?

I was searching etsy and this came up:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/263116748/pendant-roses-cross-pendant

... but it seems like shitty quality.


I would be willing to pay a decent sum if the craftmanship is decent.

>>18082158
>>18082170
>>18082177
Don't get all pissy when the guys is trying to learn. Circles are for jews and cucks anyway.

>>18082181
No need to be ignorant, man.

>>18082184
As per golden dawn? Nothing good.
You can, however, find a few decent rose crosses in the traditional format from any given website (ebay, etc.).

>>18082184
>christ magic

just memeing, gl finding on. from my knowledge of metal casting large objects you will have a horrible time finding one in any better quality than that unless some random Jewelry house decides to dabble in occultist pieces.

>>18081124
Maybe some chaos magician playing with his egregore?

>>18082188
>As per golden dawn? Nothing good.
Bummer...
>>18082192
>unless some random Jewelry house decides to dabble in occultist pieces.
If only...


I guess I might just go for a traditional one then. Found this neat piece for if I wanna be "le spooky voodoo man" tho:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/459323160/925-silver-cross-and-skull-pendant-rosy

Thoughts on the Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP)?

Though their organization formed much later to the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (1976 compared to 1887), how did they differ from one another?

Romanticism versus skepticism?

Are articles published by CSICOP worth reading for an understanding of the occult?

>>18082127
You've been shitting up every thread on the board for days, everyone on this shithole knows the context of your shortcomings.

>>18082336
Okay then? And yet people are being amicable and understanding. You're the odd man out.

>>18082342
I'm not even that anon. Seriously though, working on yourself comes first, especially considering the nature of results, ones I've had personal experience with by not following that advice.

>>18082348
Well , explain what you mean by improving myself?

>>18081891
The only time I can ever "see" in my mind is when I dream. Other than that, I am 100% aphantasic, and I can't visualize anything. I've never been able to do that, though I thought that perhaps some psychedelic drugs might "unlock" that possibility (they haven't).

Is there anything I could do to try to work my way into visualization? All of the entry-level stuff I've found basically assumes that one can already see things in their mind's eye, and are of no use to me.

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>>18082351

>>18082354
Im sorry, my social skills arent really up to snuff,

Do you mean just read through the lemegeton? Or improve upon my personality and moral character?

>>18082353
>I am 100% aphantasic
Go get a brain scan then phone some neurosci grads eager for fame.

>>18082414
That's actually an interesting suggestion, but that doesn't really answer my question.

>>18082354
Okay, i did some more reading, i know the seal, how to make the circle, and the general process.

But do demons prefer you do anything specific or special?
I know i'm supposed to wear black or white clothes, bit i don't have those things? With something go wrong if i'm not within the dress code?

>>18082353
Poster from earlier here (>>18081887):

I do not consider myself aphantasmic but do have trouble visualizing. It seems to me if you can visualize while dreaming you can do it while awake. At least that's what I think. Can you conceptualize a point? Or a line? Or a geometric shape? Can you at least imagine within your mind's eye? Obviously it would be maladaptive to imagine so vividly you can't see what you're supposed to see but surely you can recall images or get flashes of mental images when one tells a story. Try capturing that. Look not with your eyes but "behind" your eyes. If anything, try faking it. Tell yourself you are envisioning things and you might just catch a glimpse. As some wanky postmodernist once said "to pretend one actually does the thing, therefore, one has only pretended to pretend". 'tis what I am doing until my skills increase. Idk tho. Maybe Ape has better advice.

>>18082553
>But do demons prefer you do anything specific or special?

The seal should be in the proper metal. You really shouldn't approach Goets without a decent sword. Most everything else can be faked with paper.

>>18082569
I think that the way I think revolves analysis and not conceptualization. All of the exercises that I've tried have led to nothing but the blackness in my mind. I've also tried to "pretend" as you said, but also nothing. Nothing but blackness.

>>18082582
Sounds expensive.

>>18082569
>>18082353
>aphantasmia

This is the first time Ive heard of this and it sounds like a nightmare. I think Id rather be schizophrenic.

>>18082618
aphanasia, not phantasmagoria (lol). it's actually not bad. i only found out about it not too long ago. i kinda figured it's how humans think, until i asked around and realized that im the only person i know that cant visualize stuff. i kinda like it, it's not bad. if anything it's a blessing because it leads to simplicity in my practices, with the exception of visualization techniques (obviously).

>>18082642
its not aphanasia, its aphantasmia. aphanasia is a state of obscurarion, aphantasmia is an innability to visualize. Were all in some state of aphanasia, aphantasmia sounds like a nightmare.

Ape (and others)

Anyone familiar with Neville Goddard here?

I would love to talk through a few things related to him and his mentor.

>>18082683
>aphantasmia
Try googling that and see what comes up.

>>18080823
asking for second time to this thread's sages

is it possible for people to unwillingly manifest something bad for you? I'm afraid on putting curses on people or burn things just by being afraid of setting them on fire (directly or by synchronicity chains)

>>18082816
>is it possible for people to unwillingly manifest something bad for you?
no shit

>>18082642
>>18082683
>>18082734
Aphantasia. It was only spelled right the first time. Came across an interesting article:

https://m.facebookcom/notes/blake-ross/aphantasia-how-it-feels-to-be-blind-in-your-mind/10156834777480504/

>>18082816
I burn sigils related to myself all the time and have not caught on fire yet. I also buried and tossed them out to sea and have suffered neither of those fates.

>>18082618
Schizophrenic here. I wonder if you can even be schizophrenic with aphantasia? What would you hallucinate? And how can you pursue the occult? Can you still learn to astrally project?

>>18080823

I'm going to link my question here, since it's relevant:

>>18083145
>>18083149

If anyone's up for it.

>>18083057
Can you not be schizophrenic with just audial hallucinations?

I am a buddhist practitioner; I use my breath as an anchor point during meditation, and it has been remarked in the scriptures that one can use any of the anchors from beginning all the way to enlightenment. I'm not sure if I, having aphantasia, can astrally project. That's TBD. But as of right now, most western occultism that has to do with any sort of visualization is locked to me; though, I don't see that as a bad thing, since western occultism doesn't sit well with me overall anyway.

Why is dualism so retarded? Why do retarded poo niggers like patanjali obsess over that shit?

I'm pretty sure there's a wraith stalking me

is there any sign I can use to make the thing solid so I can beat the shit out of it or otherwise banish it?

the thing is just sort of starting to piss me off and I want it to git, any help would be appreciated

>>18083419
Rewrite that in the form of a coherent thought and I'll tackle it.

>>18083504
>Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram
>Star Ruby

>>18083419
Nice bait, I'll bite. The underlying bases of six Hindu darshanas can be thought of as steps on a ladder, and they correspond to the spiritual progress of the aspirant. Not all can jump into the ocean of nondualism or monism right off the bat; they might need to jump into the pool of dualism first, and work their way up. Dualism is something useful to some, but it gets cast away once its usefulness runs dry.

In the case of Patanjali, perhaps he was at the spiritual level where dualism is the bees knees; or, as I suspect, his writings were intended for a specific range of people, and he didn't go further than that for fear of overcomplicating things. Grade 8 math is an important step towards university math, but someone doing grade 8 math getting thrown university-level concepts might find themselves lost.

>>18083509
That was a WAAAAAAY better answer that question deserved.

>>18083513
omg, senpai noticed me~
I agree, though.

>>18083509
Thank you. Dualism btfo.

>>18083513

??

>>18083171

You don't have to, if you don't want to.

>>18083531
That's actually a tough call.
I dunno what's what in Poutineistan. That's where Achad's student was based but that line died.

You're close to New York; Shoemaker should have boys down that way, what with the ICoT and all.

>>18083508
gonna try Star Ruby

danke friend

What are the strangest things you've used a spell for?

>>18083221
That's a good point. I believe audio hallucinations are the most stereotypical schizophrenic sympton but, in my case at least, I experience vision, voices, smells, tastes, sensations and the whole gamut of sensory expression so I always figured it was the same for most.

>>18083559
Put a simple blessing of longevity on dairy products to help prevent spoilage.

>>18083572
Did the same thing with my incubator for mycellium on brf cakes.

>>18083561
Even if I were to get schizophrenia, I could experience any or all of the things you listed except for closed-eye visual hallucinations. It would still be massively shitty. How is it for you?

Any reason certain items are removed?

Example being "Ceremony of the Equinox" in Crowley/Microfilms/Film 01/NS 94

I'm just curious because I use megasync and I noticed the updated mega library lacks certain files that my sync is attempting to reupload.

>>18083585
Shhhhh.
They were never there to begin with :^)

>>18083590
Okay. I just wanted to make sure items weren't being renamed or moved. Don't want to end up with duplicates. That's just a waste of space.

Is Shoemaker the legitimate A.'. A.'. lineage?

>>18083602
Maybe.

>>18083600
They were temporarily relocated outside the ToSK file structure. If anyone seriously wants to see those files, something can be arranged. I'm shocked anyone noticed, desu.

>>18083539
> That's where Achad's student was based but that line died.

That's really a shame. Damn.

>You're close to New York; Shoemaker should have boys down that way, what with the ICoT and all.

I'm quite a distance from New York, actually. I am not planning to live in the GTA, so hopefully there's a good lodge somewhere around in the future. Thanks tho.

>>18083612
>quite a distance from New York
Not as far as me.

>>18083608
Let me rephrase: which of the extant lineages (if any), can be said to be the most legitimate vis-a-vis Crowley? Does this ultimately matter?

>>18083608
I only noticed by accident as it was just a few files, but megasync does it's sync both ways (which I hate) so I noticed a few files being uploaded from my drive and decided to check the mega collection to see if they were missing there as well.

I have them so it's not a big deal, was just curious as to the reasons.

>>18083580
When I'm schizo the real problem is not the hallucinations but the delusions. I become super paranoid and make all sorts of illogical and fallacious reasonings about the world that land me in a psych ward. The hard part is finding the right medicine and coming to terms with it. On my medicine I am perfectly normal except for reduced sex drive and grogginess.

>>18083622
>which of the extant lineages (if any), can be said to be the most legitimate vis-a-vis Crowley?
Technically speaking?
None.
There is no instrument of succession.
Gemer did not name an A.'.A.'. link.
Frater Paragranus (Metzger) was the inheritor of the Crown of the OTO.
Nobody listened, and Metzger's outfit didn't even accept Liber L. They still use the Reuss/Kellner rites.

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>>18083634
>reasons
Long story.
They may be back, soon.
Until I know for sure, though, I've got them redacted.

Besides, other goodies are in the pipeline :^)

>>18083639
>people with organic brain disorders still won't stop following the thread
I really wish you cats would just wait until you're in remission, my dude.

>>18083639
A friend of mine has schizophrenia and he swears by Yoga. Not just the asanas, but the whole shebang. I've noticed that it's helped him, but he himself has told me that it has done wonders for him. Perhaps look into that?

>>18083643
What about Crowley > Estai > Meral > etc? Would that not count? Or is that controversial?

>>18083656
Show me the instrument of succession.
Show me where Crowley states the highest ranking global member assumes leadership.

Stewardship is, and always has been, in the hands of the Secret Chiefs.

>>18083572
are there any weird things you want to try casting?

I have one but I'm sometimes afraid of it being a little too out there

>>18083664
>>18083656
Better fucking yet, tell me why the Lineage didn't revert BACK to the hands of George Cecil Jones, if Jane and then Phyllis were the ranking members, given GCJ was *Crowley's* superior.

>>18083665
Nothing 'weird', no. I've sometimes thought about trying my hand at summoning, but without a real need for it I don't think I'll bother.

>too out there
You aren't going to shock anyone around here.

>>18083681
>‘MY DEAR ION, - I address you by the unfamiliar title in giving you a man self-damned, God knows how unjustly, as the author of the phrase, “I am not an appreciator of poetry, and I have no Keats,” these volumes. For the matter thereof is already in great part yours and and as such cannot be given. The rest I offer because it is hardly possible to close definitely, as I do now, a period of many years’ work, without reflecting upon that period as a whole. And, when I do so, I find you at the beginning like Ladas or Pheidippides of old, running – ready to run until you achieve the goal or your heart burst; but you are among a crowd. I join you. Eight years ago this day you, Hermes, led me blindfold to awake a chosen runner of the course. “In all my wanderings darkness your light shone before me though I knew it not.” To-day (one may almost hope, turning into the straight) you and I are alone. Terrible and joyous! We shall find companions at the End, at the banquet, lissom and cool and garlanded; companions with a Silver Star or maybe a Jewelled Eye mobile and uncertain – as if alive – on their foreheads. We shall be bidden to sit, and they will wreathe us with immortal flowers, and give us to drink of the seemly wine of Iacchus – well! but until then, unless my heart deceives me, no third shall appear to join us. Indeed, may two attain? It seems a thing impossible in nature. May it not be that – near as the resounding roar of the viewless spectators sounds to our dust-dimmed ears – there stands some awful oppose in the way, some fear or some seduction? Why do you grip that bar in your left hand? ... Well, if my heart bursts, it bursts; you must give these volumes to the young athletes, that they may learn wherefore I failed – wherefore it was given unto me to run thus far. For, if I have put nothing else therein, most surely that is there.

Crowley, writing of GCJ

>>18083647
>remission
Isn't that what medicine is for? I'd say I'm less crazy than, say, someone who wants to use the goetia to get their ex back... All in all, all I'm doing is working, going to school, and practicing some magic. Hardly hurting no one.
>>18083651
I've actually had great success with yoga. It's just not a replacement for medicine for me.

>>18083697
>John Symonds claimed in The Great Beast [The Persecution of the Thelemites] that Crowley meets fifty-one year old Jones and his friends in Paris on Saturday 17th May 1924. After Crowley had been ‘asked to leave’ his hotel at 50 Rue Vavin he sees ‘his old friend, George Cecil Jones, who had introduced him to the Golden Dawn, J. W. N. Sullivan, and an Argentine gentleman called Alexander Xul Zolar “who had been seeking me as a Master for some time”, unexpectedly turned up, more or less at the same time. While all four were sitting around a cafe table and taking turns at playing each other chess, Crowley bisected the base of an equilateral triangle with its apex towards the west, facing the moon, and posited:
>“Are not these the Three Holy Kings who have seen my Star in the West and come to worship me after my birth on May 1st?”
>"They had certainly brought offerings in the form of cash, food, and advice. “Jones offered nothing but instruction in the King’s Gambit. I beat him easily three times running. He had previously offered dinner but refused to worship me (in those actual words).”

>>18083700
I didn't imply that yoga could replace the medicine, as I know that such an outcome is extremely rare. But I am happy that yoga helps you.

>>18083700
>working, going to school
Good.
IJS this is unsettling for the sanest of us. You're at more a disadvantage than most of us.

Can you use magic to make yourself smarter?
Do low IQ people have less tangible results?

>>18083681
>George Cecil Jones
The answer to the question depends on what role he played after Crowley croaked. Plus, didn't he die not too long after Crowley?

>>18083721
GCJ died in 1960.
Just because he went Silent does not mean he didn't continue the Work.
My point is, by the claims of Phyllis about the nature of succession, George Cecil Jones was in charge whether he wanted to be or not, and appeared to not want to do anything with the Order like Germer.
The fact that Estai, then Seckler, claimed to be the ranking global members is refuted by the plain fact that Crowley's superior was still living.

>>18083730
I think I might have mixed him up with someone else w/r/t the year he died. But did you not say that there was no instrument of succession? If that's the case, why would Jones automatically get placed in charge? You said that Crowley didn't state that the highest ranking member assumes leadership. That, coupled with the fact that Jones seemed to not want to do anything with the A.'. A.'., seems to be problematic, no?

>>18083742
I don't buy the claim, I'm pointing out that Phyllis and Jane threw shitfits about global ranking members. Their claim of lineage hinges on this idea.

But, if we apply this idea as accurately as possible, what Jane and Phyllis said about succession *rules them out* of succession.

Functionally speaking there is no A.'.A.'. in terms of valid lineal descent.

Every last line of transmission today makes a rhetorical claim rather than administrative, declarative, or otherwise document based claims.

Alright, I'm a christian and I'm fascinated by this shit. Will my ass go to hell for doing this shit or nah?

>>18083768
I see. So what is the point of the A.'.A.'. today, if it, as an initiatory group, has broken the chain of succession, with all claimants being invalid? Who is the highest ranking member today, and, conversely, how many of the ranks are now forever inaccessible?

>>18083787
Yep.
Now run on back to church.

>>18083787
Which flavor of Christian? Just curious.

>>18083796
Crowley still has a chain of students.
The problem is that administrative succession is broken.
The answer should be clear...

>invalidity
If all claimants are all invalid, then they are also equally valid.

>highest ranking member today
Depends on who you ask. I could tackle this a few ways. I honestly don't think it matters much anymore.
>Ranks forever inaccessible
In terms of administrative reality? Probably everything after Adeptus Minor.

THAT SAID, the A.'.A.'. is just the outer physical manifestation of something on the Other Side, which does, for all intents and purposes, still appear to operate at some level.

>>18083811
Honestly, I'm not sure. I don't fuck with churches or church people. I just try to be a good person and work on my relationship with god.

>>18083719
IQ is not the sole determining factor of one's quality as a human or a magician but if you really want to become smarter then perhaps you could summon a demon who presides over such spheres. That would be the ceremonial approach. You could also make a sigil to increase your intelligence. That would be the chaote approach. Or you could take modafinil. That would be the chemognostic approach.

>>18083787
Occultists work for Satan. The Great Work literally seeks to usurp the goodness of God's grace on Earth. Many consider themselves Luciferian and believe that knowledge or "gnosis" will save them instead of faith in Christ. They even view the serpent in Genesis as a liberator rather than the progenitor of our fallen condition.

>>18083813
You are very insightful, and I thank you for all the information. Out of curiosity, what lineage are you a part of? I've been considering initiation (I am about halfway through the curriculum), but I know not where to turn to.

>>18083842
faggy prautistant detected
or cucktholic. can't tell.

>>18083787
Judeo-Christian Dogma would say 'Yes'.
Take that phrase as you will.

>>18083834
or you could take some modafinil and make a sigil that summons a demon of your own making whos sphere is intelligence.

That would be the boss approach.

>>18083848
I have a cordial affiliation with most lines of transmission.
To be blunt, there is no Adytum I cannot penetrate.

>>18083865
you can penetrate my adytum

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>>18083864
>or you could take some modafinil and make a sigil that summons a demon of your own making whos sphere is intelligence.
>That would be the Frater K/Ape of Thoth approach.
ftfy

>>18083872
Bend over and I'll show you the secret of the XIth Degree.

>>18083842
t. propagandist

Don't you have some J.K. Rowling books to burn?

>>18083876
>ftfy
>Frater K/AoT
yeah thats what I said: "boss"

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>>18083879
Um, he's not entirely wrong...
Nevermind.

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>>18083888
>888
>Christ the Redeemer
>Serpent (Nachash)
>358
>Messiah
>358

>>18083876
>Bend over and I'll show you the secret of the XIth Degree.
as long as I can practice the VII degree techniques on you, you can go XIth on me all night.

also this is getting me hot...

>>18083876
>>18083864
>or you could take some modafinil and make a sigil that summons a demon of your own making whos sphere is intelligence.

That sounds almost... I.O.T
Speaking of Adytum, thoughts on B.O.T.A, K.

>>18083888
Was John Milton an occultist?

>>18083908
>B.O.T.A
Meh.
For what it's worth, my fundamental interpretation of Thelemic Doctrine is via the Kaos-Babalon Current of Beast and Harlot conjoined.

>>18083915
Very highly doubt it.
Dante probably knew a thing or two though, but not to sophistication.

>>18083907

Do i need a specific kind of incense for certain demons?
I dont want to offend them and cause them to hurt others.

>>18083923
that wasn't a reply that was just a (you) :(

You prefer the mouth of isis big guy?

>>18083954
Editing gone wrong.
Shoulda been "You'll be worshiping my Baphomet either way so sure."

>>18083937
It helps.

>>18083962
Okay? So i know the basics of making a circle now at least.

Someone earlier in the thread that with goetics, you should have the seal made in a certain kind of metal, is this a true thing?.

>>18083974
Yup.
Good luck.

>>18083962
why are these veiled discussions getting me so excited, is occultist flirting just rattling off different degrees and references to Atu XVI?

I think I might just be an abomination. Im cool with that.

>>18083978
Wait, this sounds way to expensive to be done practically.
Plus wouldnt people get suspicious of you asking for a metalic demon seal?

How do people summon goetics in the modern age?

>>18083974
inb4 he makes the seal on lined notebook paper and burns some 3.00$ nag champa before calling on goetic powers and then 30 minutes later comes on /x/ to complain about having a bad time.

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>>18080823
Yo, Thoth. Does that MEGA link take a long fucking time to decrypt or am I having a problem on my end?

So what's the most occult show to watch on Netflix? Stranger Things? Johnathan Strange and Mr. Norrell? Limitless?

>>18083991
Log in or use bugmenot for a mega.nz account.

>>18083986
This is im trying do avoid.
But still, it seems like people here have experience.
How did you get that experience? Are you just really good craftsmen or something?

>>18083985
With swords, robes, braziers, metal seals, practical knowledge of the heavens, Kabbalah, and, like, effort and dedication.

Now get cracking.

Or you can start not being awful and get your fuckin' gf back without all the effort and strain because you're very fucking obviously out of your depth (and if you're not that guy pardon, but my fuckin' god I can only tell a person to go read so many times).

>>18083991
Need an account.
See:
>>18083994
^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>18083992
Lo, if it's still on there.

>>18083997
*sigh*

>>18083923
Ah I see, the Shivasakhi Paradigm if you will.

>>18083985
I don't think Goetic Evocation is actually all that popular of a practice now. I'm pretty far removed from the modern works but Kaosmagick and Designer Entities seem more en vogue.

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>>18084005
>Lo, if it's still on there.
Pic related.

>>18083997
Actually, you, yes you. Here's me not shitposting anymore. Watch Lo before you do a goddamn thing.

>>18084005
I have a crtain knowledge of how heaven works, i know the general orders of angels and such.
I know that many goetics were at one point of another, considered the gods of some religion, i know that a few are more even tempered than others or even polite and well meaning, such as orobas and sallos.

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>>18083994

Thank you.

>>18084005

Thank you also for the link.

>>18083997
ffs man, ceremonial magic(k) has been practiced since before the invention of awesome shit like dremel tools, drill presses, polishing wheels, sewing machines, machining tools and 3d printers.

If the magi of old could do this shit with nothing but iron crucibles and dedication, certainly you can do it with modern technology.

Low magic isn't even any better, go try and find a specific rare species of african orchid or learn three languages to understand various folk magic traditions.

Magic is work. Either work the magic, work the mundane, or find a new goal.

>>18084010
>Ah I see, the Shivasakhi Paradigm if you will.
Yes, but also more. Has to do with The Vision and the Voice and what it means for Crowley's orgs. You can read the basics in Kaos 14 and Black Lodge of Santa Cruz.

Until someone assumes the office of the Beast, all is lost.

>>18084005
You mean spending decades at self-perfection, self-realization, and pursuing the Fundamental Truth of the Ineffabilities isn't for accomplishing tasks such as... what's the other popular one? Money? s/ Yeah. That's what it's all about, Money & Pussy. /s

>>18084025
I'm very tight on money. Thats the only issue i can't really deal with.
I have like 140 in cash at the moment. And thats the only thing keeping my from doing this. Well, aside from being in a christian household.

>>18084025
hear hear

>>18083691
You mean that I wouldn't shock anyone by saying that I want to preform a spell that causes immaculate conception or demonic impregnation on my partner?

>>18084037
Man, I know what it's like to be poor. Here are some ideas:
>fuck vidya
>fuck smartphones
>fuck about half your drug intake
>go down to the craft store
>get a bottle of potent acid
>get a marker
>about half the metals called for in the old grimoires are available for pocket change in 3 inch squares or circles
>that acid can also be used for electroplating if you know what you're doing, making any gold laying around stretch REALLY far
>google: acid etch

>>18084046
I dont do drugs, or vidya, i dont have mobile service, and i have little siblings that might drink that shit or something.

Though, i have been looking into metal work, for small stuff.

>>18084037
>140$ in the bank
>live with family
>christian family
>how does I demon?

What possible reason do you even have for invoking a goetic power at this point in your personal development? Not only is this currently a bad idea if you lack the experience,dedication, creativity, and resourcefulness necessary to commit to the work, but its downright dangerous.

Honestly, meditate, it's free, and it will help you toward your magical goals. Your primary focus at the moment should be the ancient ritual of "getting a fucking job and moving out of your parents house" its as old as time, and a necessary step towards higher magic.

>>18084026
And there's another 270 pages to add to the reading pile. I hadn't truly paid more study to 156 than understanding it as another manifest of Shivasakhi.


We know he's coming though. It is Comprehendable that he is arriving.

>>18084042
No. People will likely just resent the tremendous effort needed to roll our eyes all the way around that massive edge.

>>18084051
I want to be a generally less shitty human being.

So i need counsil with someone , or something to get my life on track.

I am a catholic, but god hasn't helped me alongbwith any changes, nor can i force myself to change even if i want to. I've tried, months of work and percieved progress, but then i do stupid shit to prove i haven't made any progress at all.

I need an outside force to make me a better, likeable, and lovable person before i die bitter, alone , and without a penny to my name.

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>>18084053
>We know he's coming though. It is Comprehendable that he is arriving.
Don't say shit like that.

>>18084060
>I need an outside force to make me a better, likeable, and lovable person before i die bitter, alone , and without a penny to my name.
>>>/adv/

>>18084060
>I want to be a generally less shitty human being.
clean up, get a job, eat better, sleep properly, meditate.

>So i need counsil with someone , or something to get my life on track.
Consider this your counsel.

> but then i do stupid shit to prove i haven't made any progress at all.
This is the condition called "being human". Were all fallible. Its not a ladder to higher existence, its a long uphill hike, and sometimes we slip or need to rest.

>I need an outside force...
gonna stop you right there, you dont need an outside source, you need to stop blaming your problems on, and expecting rescue, from external sources.

>make me a better, likeable, and lovable person before i die bitter, alone , and without a penny to my name.
Clean up, get a job, eat better, sleep properly, meditate. If you REALLY want to go nuts on being a cool person, dedicate your free time to charity or humanitarian causes, or learn extracurricular things like extra languages, productive hobbies or even just get really good at cleaning your house.

You do not need the 72 goetic powers, you need friends and self-respect.

>>18084072
Its not enough to get advice, i dont know if this ia from some kinda weird mental illness i have, but i need change forced onto me or it will never happens

I feel trapped in myself, and no one has helped to break me out..

Would invocation be any more effective than evocation? I know it's signifigantly more risky, but i intend to uhave council with primarily orobas and other ' kind' demons.

>>18084082
I understand what you're saying, and i know. You're right.
But i also know that i'm mentally ill, i have zero edperience in much of anything, no education beyond elementery school because my mother decided to pull me out.
And that people like me dont get far in life on our own.

I don't want to exist anymore, i want to be better for those around me.even if it isnt strictly 'me' we're talking about.

I'm basically considering this a form of suicide. Without physically dying.

Per personality won't exist anymore, something better will.
I feel this is entirely necesarry.

>>18084088
> no one has helped to break me out..
stop blaming your failures on others, and more importantly, insulting all the people who are actively helping you to "break out".

>>18084106
>But i also know that i'm mentally ill
You need a psychiatrist then.

>I'm basically considering this a form of suicide.
you really need a psychiatrist.

>I feel this is entirely necesarry.
Then put in the necessary work, or find an alternative. Personally Id recommend a mental health professional as an alternative for you right now.

>>18084131
Cant aford it.
Im willing to put the work in. I really am, but the cost, its a little much.

Even if i did the acide etching thing the other guy told me about. How would i ge the sword?
There are sights for this kind of thing, but they all seem like scams for desperate people like me. With outrageous prices.
Sorry for being unreasonable, i'm frustrated as hell.

And i'm not blaming others for my short comings. If it came off that way, (which i can understand why it would) i'm sorry.

>>18084140
Seek mental health care today. Don't think about the price, because all the money in the world won't mean shit if you're dead.

>>18084065
The ripples are there for it. I am certain in my Comprehension that an Enlightened is going to manifest soon, now whether he will realize the Beast or he will not, that I do not know.

On another note; have you taken on any long-term Disciples, K?

>>18084156
Debt kills too.

>>18084140
>Cant aford it.
more excuses, go looking, there are sliding scale doctors, or students prepared to give free or very inexpensive counseling. You just havent bothered to look.

>Even if i did the acide etching thing the other guy told me about. How would i ge the sword?
FFS MAN, its a sharp piece of metal on a handle! This is not rocket science. Find a sharp piece of metal, lash it to a handle, done.

> they all seem like scams for desperate people like me
You make it terribly easy for them by showing no initiative or creativity.

> i'm not blaming others for my short comings
no, you're blaming others for not helping you overcome your own shortcomings, which is worse, since they actually are and youre not even recognizing their contributions to your own development.

Go see a shrink please.


Can we go back to discussing spooky magickal buttsecks please? It was much better than this topic.

>>18084167

Well sorry. I didnt think a lawnmower blade on a stick would work.

I've been taking initiative, i found the varient of the circle i want to use, i've found which demons are least likely to attempt to murder me over minor mistakes in the evocation.

All i need now is the seal, the right clothing. And i think i'm set, if what you're saying about just sharp metal on a stick is true.

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>>18084178
>mfw lawnmower mage

>>18084167
Every time I read a passage involving "raising your Kundalini Serpent" I can't help but imagine it as a euphemism for an erection, in turn "penetrating the cosmos" and "attaining divinity" take on a different meaning.

What if all Mystical and Esoteric traditions are just ways to conceal ancient buttsecks.

>>18084178
if you dont understand why a sword is a sword, and why a sword is one of the four elemental weapons, OR what the elemental weapons are and why, then a lawnmower blade isn't going to work. If you understand all these things, a letter opener will work, it doesnt matter. In order to understand these things though, you need to put in the work. There is no shortcut.

>>18084187
>What if all Mystical and Esoteric traditions are just ways to conceal ancient buttsecks.
I hope so, that would be rad.

>>18084187
Thats essentially what it means imo. It gets crazy when you start winding dna strands in cool configurations and patterns around your auric field of awareness and start sort of dragging the strands across things like trees or the back of your head when your eyes are closed. Think of your body as a sort of puppet master to move the invisible strands. Then start winding them up with elaborate movements and sort of a pendulum like feeling in your mind of a swing between male and female awareness of self. Hard part is letting go of needing some sort of physical contact craving and just let the energy into empty space.

>>18084196
That lawnmower comment was a joke, sorry if that wasnt clear.

Really, i'd be better to talk to after some sleep, since i'll be less frustrated..

Thankfully i do have a letter opener somewhere around my house.

And i know about swords, it has to do with wind right? At least that is the symbology the tarot gave swords.

>>18084202
> it has to do with wind right?

oh my sweet summer child...

>>18084207
I'm putting in the effort by asking people who supposedly know what theyre doing, rather than trusting whatever the hell the internet at large has to tell me

I am in need of an incantation to open a stubborn wine bottle.

please send help

>>18084220
I'm not too experienced here, in fact i'd say im kinda the most hated guybon the board right now.

But i dont think the supernatural is meant for that,.
And i know you are probably joking, but poe's law. Is a thing.

>>18084186
underrated comment

>>18084226
You're absolutely right -- this thread deals mainly with spirits, not wine.

>>18084212
alright, Ill hit you with some basics see how you digest them.

The sword is correspondent to the element of air, because the element of air is correspondent with the intellect. Also with force, power ambition and opression. It is seen this way because ultimately, the sword is a tool of division, it separates. Thus, it is not the sword that is required to fulfill the purpose of this elemental weapon, it is the edge which divides, it is the essence of "solve" before "coagula" it is the separation into parts for intellectual assesment.

Does this make sense?

>>18084237
So, the sword is used in solomonic magic, due to symbolising separation. Correct?

I know it's probably much more complex, but stripped to the bare bones of your statement, that's what i got.

>>18084237
So air stands for Intellect, power, ambition, oppression, and division,
Gotcha. So it's like the conquerer's element?

>>18084242
well, yes, I mean you're understanding the basic premise, but do you understand why this symbolism is necessary or what function it plays in magic? (any magic by the way not just solomonic)

>>18084246
>So it's like the conquerer's element?
its the scientists element. Solve without coagula is just pointless destruction.

Just finished watching Lo. You trying to tell me my ex-girlfriend is a demon? Lol. Interesting as fuck movie though... I'm not sure I wanna summon demons anymore.

>>18084247
Hmm, my guess is the division between the mortal and spiritual planes, along with holding power over a spirit ?

>>18084246
Not quite. In your interpretation is a mixture of Fire with Wind. Fire would be what you perceive as the Conqueror.

While we are on the topic of Elements. In what lies to root cause for the conflicting interpretations of basic Elements in Western Esotericism and Chinese.
Did we fail to grasp Metal, or is Metal simply Earth.
Then there are of course the treatises which appropriate the 5th Element to Space, but I remain unconvinced in their corpus opus.

>>18084277
In eastern traditions, metal and earth are considered seperate, with metal being the in between of fire and earth.

As per western traditions, i wouldnt know.

>>18084283
Yes, yes. I am aware. My quandry lies in that while on many subjects of contemplation the East, South, and West Schools have found varying degree of similarity and possibility for reconciliation in ordaining higher mechanical understandings, the Elements remain a core incompatibility.

South and East agree on there being 5 Elements, East considers the 5th as Metal while South considers in Zero/Aether/Void. Meanwhile West has developed in a direction to where it maintains the Prime 4 that appear in All and no 5th basic Element is expressed.

I'm curious who has it right or is closer to the Truth on this topic, for it is in deed an important topic, and I'm curious what the rest think.

>>18084255
sure, that would be one use of the element of air, but you're thinking a little bit literally.

More importantly, you need to be asking yourself questions like "what seperates me from this 'spirit'?" or "what separates outside of this circle, from inside of this circle?" or if youre feeling particularly hungry and eager "what separates my will from my goal" or something of that nature, the sword is the tool that you use for cutting down the whole, so that it can be reformed.

Do you understand?

>>18084255
>root cause for the conflicting interpretations of basic Elements in Western Esotericism and Chinese.

Are you seriously asking why there was a difference in opinion between two different metaphysical or magickal schools seperated by thousands of years of technological development and half a planet, not to mention a vastly different social construction? Seriously?

>>18084301
Okay. Explain by which manifest of geographic location, socio-political, cultural factors, and metaphysical interpretations the Chinese were lead to Metal. It is easy to be dismissive of questions, but our entire being involves questions, the moment we stop posing questions we develop Dogma, and die.

To that point; at the deepest level the metaphysical interpretations eventually reach very similar states. In this they portray a deeper universal Truth.

>>18084341
>Explain by which manifest of geographic location, socio-political, cultural factors, and metaphysical interpretations the Chinese were lead to Metal.

in the east, some mystic or magician saw a magical purpose to identifying metal as a primary element.

In western traditions, this did not occur the same way.

The end.

Seriously this does not need further elaboration. Why does one country prefer red shirts to green shirts? Why does one place use a different language than another? Honestly this doesnt take a lot of intellectual scrutiny to figure out, their esoteric systems developed differently because they are different.

Both magical and esoteric traditions have validity, both can (and probably should) be studied.

>>18084352
That is a reffudation of the principles inlaid in Causality. Why does one country prefer red shirts to green shirts? Because they prefer Red to Green, from here we logically progress to "Why does one country prefer Red to Green?", do you understand? In all things there is ultimately Truth.

As such; the explanation of they developed differently because they are different is a... insufficient explanation. To go further; if in studying both you came to assossciate more with the 5e than the 4e, while your preferred divinatory practice was say Tarot, you would encounter a 'challenge' in reconciliation.

That's at the banal 'low' level, at the 'medium' it presents a difficulty in nearing the understanding of the Fundamental Truth. There are answers which are more correct than others once you move past Subjective Reality experience of Conscioussnes.

>>18084377
>reffudation
that's not a word, presuming you mean refutation:
how is this in any way a refutation of the principles of causality? There was a cause, and an effect. There were different causes and different effects for different schools of thought.

>In all things there is ultimately Truth.
I think you have a very loose definition of "truth".

>insufficient explanation
I disagree, we are different in that opinion (see how that works? Its like magic.)

>you would encounter a 'challenge' in reconciliation.
maybe YOU have a challenge in reconciliation of whatever you think "truth" is. I do not have this challenge. Amazing, once again how people are different and truth is thus, subjective.

>difficulty in nearing the understanding of the Fundamental Truth
There is no fundamental truth.

>There are answers which are more correct than others once you move past Subjective Reality experience of Conscioussnes.

No, there aren't. reality, and truth, are subjective things, I'm afraid. I know thats terribly uncomfortable to contemplate, but it's true. What may be truth for you, will not be truth for all, let alone truth for an entire culture. Thats just how it is my man.

Oh also, if you'd like something resembling a "fundamental truth" you might go look up the rules for capitalization, it's a generally accepted truth when conversing in english, you might want to stick to it.

>>18083034
>>18083027
>>18082816

What i meant is not Burn the sigils = Burn somebody; but rather
"Unwillingly connvince myself that something will burn, just out of fear = that thing burns"

>>18082615

A know someone who spared no expense, acquired all the equipment as prescribed, and laid down about US$4,000. They told me most of it could be faked, so considerably less expensive than that.

>>18083513

Really? How is Patanjali dualist?

>>18083643

I accept Jones's argument in favor of Russell. for what it's worth. There is no avoiding the fact that, without Russell, the GBG, &c, we would not be having this conversation. Unless there's a descent unknown to us, though, looks like it may die with Keith.

>>18083697

Date?

>>18083730
>The fact that Estai, then Seckler, claimed to be the ranking global members is refuted by the plain fact that Crowley's superior was still living.

Indeed.

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Oh hey guys, good to see another thread.

>>18083813
>THAT SAID, the A.'.A.'. is just the outer physical manifestation of something on the Other Side, which does, for all intents and purposes, still appear to operate at some level.

Yep. They seem to be stirring a bit, as a result of this Gunther business.

>>18083876
>Bend over and I'll show you the secret of the XIth Degree.

A bit backwards, but okay.

>>18083981
>I think I might just be an abomination. Im cool with that.

}:-)

>>18084026
>Until someone assumes the office of the Beast, all is lost.

Any idea what it pays?

That might be a joke.

>>18084237
>The sword is correspondent to the element of air, because the element of air is correspondent with the intellect.

In practice, the sword is more akin to the wand and therefore associated with fire.

>>18084301
Ah okay, yeah i can get behind that.
That fertainly sounds less likely to get me killed, sincei assume spirits don't like the idea of some weird kid trying to hold power over them.

>>18084880
Most of it could be faked? As in someone could make something signifigantly less money consuming?

>>18084906

Yep. A lot of the paraphernalia might be made from paper, for instance. I wouldn't face a demon without good steel in my hand, though.

>>18084923
Well, what parts would you suggest using papwr for?

>>18084925

Anything except what I said shouldn't be faked.

Obviously.

>tfw don't want to make an account just for one fucking archive
>but really want those grimoires

>>18081117
>"raarh muh goddess I am womyn"
I think that's what bothers me most about feminine magic shit. And everything else.

>>18084627
>"Unwillingly connvince myself that something will burn, just out of fear = that thing burns"
Yes. For example, if you are constantly afraid of getting cancer, your risk of cancer goes up.

>>18080823
Can confirm access to the library after creating a mega account. Firefox users: don't private browse and sign into the account before accessing the library.

I bought the hermetic tarot set as my first one because I'm dumb.

Any recommended books for all the symbolism?

>>18084925
What are the secifics of paraphernalia?

>>18085000
What do you mean specifically by paraphernalia?

Third thread asking 4 help, can you point me some guidelines/resources?

I had some experiences with magic, enough to know that it works and can make very strange things to happen.

I have severe OCD and somehow I feel that I've cursed someone unwillingly by acting against my OCD's voice.

Is there any way to differentiate OCD's thoughts from entities? Is there any way to break a curse that I myself have cast? Is it easier or harder than fighting a curse from another guy?

What sites would you recommend looking for spells on? I'm trying to curse someone because they've been treating me very badly

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If nothing else, this at least provides the working shitposter with a wealth of reaction image fodder.

Glorious

Hey ape, if you're so smart, why do you bother with thelemautism?

Would it be possible to summon a demon through meditation alone?

>>18085783
Mara is already there.

>>18085784
???

>>18085787
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=demon+mara

>>18085770
Checkmate atheists.

>>18085790
And what does this have to do with summoning a demon through meditation?

Is telekinesis possible?

>>18085797
The Vajrayana as well as other Esoteric Tantra derivatives use Deity visualization in their Meditative practices. I imagine that deep visualization of the Rakshasas or Asuras would be akin to Summoning a malevolent Spirit or primordial Demon.

Now, a lot of this would be heresay because seriously Esoteric Tantra is secretive as all hell, but I think they perform this visualization in a Trance-Meditative State instead of in a Concentrated-Meditative State. So there's at least a working level of knowledge to attempt similar experiments. Though I would heavily, heavily advise against doing so. Tantra is far (FAR) more dangerous in it's practices than something like Ritual Evocation or Kaosmagick.

>>18086209
Really as long as its only me who gets hurt if something goes wrong idc

>>18086261
Well in that case go right on ahead.
Enter a Trance-Meditative State (It's past that point where you get REM Activity, instead of fighting back against it just roll with it).
Visualize yourself becoming [Insert Entity]. Really deeply visualize it. Then proceed to visualize what it means to be the Entity, what it feels like, how you smell, how your voice is. All the little details.

Do report back with any findings.

>>18086301
In layman's terms?

>>18086322
Those are the layman's terms anon's giving you. The vajrayana folder has the full details, or most of them and enough to wing the rest.

>>18086329
So basically i just have tonthink really hard about it?

>>18084037
Maybe I'm too late but if all you have is $140 then research folk magic instead of ceremonial. If you work it it will work for you. I'm a pretty poorfag so I am into folk magick. The best part is that you can do it with renewable or foraged materials. Plants, animal parts (renewable), crystals (renewable), etc.

The only downside is hiding your paraphenalia from your family. I'm half in and half out of the closet about it because its hard to justify the bug carcasses, animal parts, crystals, and candles.

>>18086348
I eould prefer enochian ceremonial magic, thanks to its supossedly jewish roots.
See as a christian, if i'm going to disobey everything i stand for, i may as well wander as little as possible.

Though as an amateur rock cutter i have access to various kinds of stones.

>>18086348
Just tell 'em you're into necro-bestial anal buttsecks.

>having to justify noncriminal possessions to anyone

>>18085531
>Is there any way to differentiate OCD's thoughts from entities?
Zoloft. Clears your head.

>>18086351
I do all my workings in the name of god if I need to "invoke" anything. That way I know if it works it is good and if it doesn't it wasn't a good idea. I do not fuck around with "gods" little g or demons.

>>18086357
Thanks but no.

>>18086360
e i'm looking to summon goetic spirits, like orobas, sallos, and Aamon.
All of which , while generally considered kind, are demons.

I passed Merleau-Ponty off on my cognitive psych professor. Never have I seen someone get so excited by a table of contents. Now I just have to wait and get her to explain it. We intersubjective nao, not that we ever weren't.

>>18086360
I mean, seriously consider for a moment which would be worse; them finding out your rape dead dogs but lub jeebuz still, or that you engage in cunning craft?

Did they see The VVitch?

>>18086370
>Now I just have to wait and get her to explain it.
Kek.

If nothing else I'm really fuckin' pleased to be raising awareness of Merleau-Ponty (and Bataille but you fuckers don't pass him around like the other Frenchfag).

>>18086333
Pretty much. Unless you have a lot of practice with Visualization though, it's unlikely to be possible. I mean maintaining a Red Triangle in your Mind's Eye for 10 min. is difficult for a beginner.

If you aren't used to it, practicing with Oranges is how I sped up my visualization practice. Though I haven't gone far enough as to try the Deity Visualization because seriously, sounds like a Grade-A ticket to getting possessed if you don't understand the entire procedure.

>>18086380
also, so far it seems my praying has worked, plants and animals seem to love me. i always pray to the creator, the ancestors, and the spirts of nature

>>18086384
Oranges?

>>18086371
Can you stop shitposting at me? They know I do "stuff" but I don't call it witchcraft. I am into shamanism too so I just lump it into that.

>>18086380
>attract
http://wixarika.mediapark.net/en/assets/pdf/Nierika.pdf

>>18086371
I don't see what's so wrong about summoning demons IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER + THE SON + & THE HOLY GHOST + &c to do your bidding, but then I've always had jewish levels of guilt and doubt brewing that has kept me out of christian circles.

>>18086375
It's not exactly light reading.

I did get to see a woman become visibly aroused by the phenomenology of sensation and perception so I might get a class out of it next year, who knows.

>>18086393
Start Meditating with an Orange in-front of you.
Do the whole normalization of breath and relaxation, now try to see a Sphere in your mind. Once you have the Sphere pictured, start adding details to it till it looks like an Orange.
If you are struggling, open your eyes and look at the Orange, then continue.

Now try to feel the Orange in your hand, the texture, the weight, shape. If you are struggling, fondle the Orange for a bit in your hand, then continue.

From here you move on to visualizing the smell of the Orange, the sound of it falling, peeling it, the taste of the inside of an Orange, the smell of the inside, the texture of it's juices, etc..

You deconstruct the Orange physically while building it up from nothing in your mind. Once you master it, you can at any point in time perfectly visualize an Orange, but beyond that it trains your mind at this process of visualization at a far faster rate.

>>18086401
wow thank you man. you are too helpful if thats even possible lol

>>18086416
im a different anon but what does it mean if i can visua;ise absolutley anything i want without trying? until now i figured everyone could do this?

>>18086416
So you're trying to e things in your mindacape? Sounds increadibly interesting.

>>18086424
With a complete 5(6) sensory level?
Natural talent towards Magick. If you can see, hear, smell, taste, feel, and experience being say... a Leaf, you should pursue deeper into the heart of Magick.

>>18086425
Oh it is. Once you start really having control of your mind's eye, you open yourself up to a whole new level of Magick.

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>>18086393
Can confirm, oranges are inexplicable.

>>18086442
Problem though, i can only thi k of things in two dimenwions, like a cartoon.

I don't know why this is, will it effect anything?

>>18086442
yes exactly. well thank you for the confirmation. what can i do with this ability?

>>18086453
im the other anon here, just keep practicing and if you truly believe you can do anything, you can and will, i belive that is an important aspect of magic correct me if im wrong

>>18086453
Keep practicing at it. Physical tools help here as they can help you sculpt the mental image. If right now things are flat, Meditate with a small ball or a cube in your hand, concentrate on recreating what you feel with your hands in your mind.
Another route is to imagine the 2D object rotating in space.

>>18086463
With tracers.

>>18086463
Huh, okay, interesting
Would i be able to envision goetic spirits?
I want to meet with orobas, seek council with aamon over some friends i no longer speak to, and sallos over a personal matter.

>>18086456
The Mega Archive should give you a lot of ideas on how you can apply this. As one example of an application, and as a useful tool for confirmation. Try to imagine different states of body temperature, master the control of your heat.

Past that there's a lot you can do. Weather Control, Levitation, etc..

>>18086466
Well, Ritual Evocation is a far simpler route to communicating with the 72 than Mind Visualization, but yes, you can use it for pretty much anything of that nature.

Is there a book/essay/etc where the entire history/controversy of the OTO post-Crowley is detailed? I've just been finding bits and pieces.

>>18086479
Ah, well, all in all this idea of visualization seems risky, but rewarding, and i don't need to spend all my money on it.

Now i wouldnt go for more troublesome spirits. But. Only for the peaceful ones.

>>18086472
>>18086401
another question here
what does it mean if i can make chills go don my body and get goosebumps anytime by visualising a feeling. its like that feeling you get when a good song comes on but i can amplify it and it makes me feel so peaceful. one time i concentrated on it while lying in bed and after about half an hour my body exploded with a vibration feeling. what is this? i can get this feeling at will.

>>18086540
it actually feels exactly like when you get done taking a long hard piss but amplified. and it makes me concentrate like a sombitch

>>18086479
Yeah, okay great, now i just hope i'mable too with my weird mental bullshit.

>>18086472
just broke a pice of wood with a hatchet while simultaneously visualising it while i chopped. not that it was hard but the visual made it "easier" thank you sir for teaching me an important aspect of magic. it is brilliant

>>18086614
Ego Potest Docere

>>18086614
thank you you honestly taught me a lot. while i knew how to visualise and i actually do from time to time you alone taught me the importance. i hope e can hold on and keep surviving as a species with our communications technology. if people can continue to discuss these things like this true magic will be discovered and interpreted once again.

>>18086637
shit replied to my comment instead of yours
in silvis veritas est

veritas est in Deo et natura

Nothing like some poorly-composed Latin to get the old magickal juices flowing!

>>18086708
weni widi wiki, nigger

>>18086708
how would they compose the truth lies in god and nature? as in what order are the words?

>>18086540
>>18086540
>>18086540
>>18086540
iimput please????
>>18086540

>>18086762
input: you're a cunt
:)

>>18080823
Jew garbage

>>18086762
Just means you can trigger a strong emotional response at will, which causes certain biochemical processes which lead to piloerection as the Sympathetic Nervous System is responsible for both processes.

On it's own, this doesn't really 'mean' anything other than that you can generate strong emotions from the void. Use that as you will.

>>18086837
its not the void lol its from the heart. the part of myself that a piece of god is in. also its not emotional. it is a physical manifestaton of feeling. electric like. i can make my own hair stand on end

>>18086815
this

>>18086860
clarification: i donttttttt believe i generate electricity the feeling is jjust purely electric and vibrational.

I can't find any resources on ouija in the library. Is this because
> it's buried in some other text I missed;
> there is actually no literature on it;
> it's a crock of shit
or some other reason?
I'm mainly just curious, and am considering making my own board/planchette for experiments.

>>18080823
If I am a begginer with zero knowledge on magic, which book would you recomend me to read first?

>>18086699
haha dubs do not lie!

>>18086982
Ouija Boards are a crock of shit. If you want to communicate with non-human entities, look into either the other methods or design your own, but the methodology of Ouija doesn't stand up to either Scientific or Esoteric scrutiny.

>>18087043
The Equinox by Aleister Crowley is legitimitely the most introductory course you can imagine.
It introduces you to the entire spectrum of West-East-South systems, whether you choose to go further with his interpretation or concentrate on one of the concepts in depth and pursue a different school is up to you.

>>18086762
biofeedback is a hell of a drug

It is easy for muggles to just "don't care" about future and live the moment, because they cannot control fate.
But what about you, mages? You can affect whatever fate has in store for you. How do you cope with knowing that if something happens is just because you failed to control it? Do you feel the "great power comes with great responsability" pressure?

So I asked this a thread ago but maybe I should ask more clearly: I am a beginner practitioner, and I would like to get into Magick. However, I do not want to practice Chaos Magick, because it seems undignified, nor do I want to take the left hand path, because I don't want to consult Lucifer. I want something with more dignity: High Magick.

So being a beginner practitioner, what book should I read first?

>>18087825
kybalion should be basic enough

>>18087919
Kybalion is New Thought garbage written by a hack. There's much better shit out there.

>>18087934
are you the guy I'm replying to?
if no feel free to recommend better stuff
I'm not really into CM so couldnt think of anything nice for a beginner, like Bardon is not appropriate

>>18085407
>What do you mean specifically by paraphernalia?

kek

>>18086486
>Is there a book/essay/etc where the entire history/controversy of the OTO post-Crowley is detailed?

Not really, as the shit show is still unfolding.

>>18087710
>But what about you, mages? You can affect whatever fate has in store for you. How do you cope with knowing that if something happens is just because you failed to control it?

Doesn't work that way.

>>18087919
>kybalion

kek

New Thought twaddle.

>>18086982
Read this book:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1932595104/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472830934&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=aleister+ouija&dpPl=1&dpID=51dzpcs67jL&ref=plSrch

>>18087825
Read the three books by Denning and Phillips for the AURUM SOLIS:
Vol 1 - Foundations of High Magick
Vol 2 - The Sword and the Serpent
Vol 3 - Mysteria Magica

>>18088108

Their Enochian material is interesting, as well.

You gonna make a new thread, Ape?

>>18088333
Maybe.

>>18081117
>Any left-hand writings by female magicians?

Asenath Mason is probably the best for that.

>>18082104

They sold NAOS as a Xeroxed stack of copied pages in a comb binding. Hardly a jewel to seek out for your collection.

Does the sword require symbols on them?

>>18089142
Yes,

>>18089206
Any tips on doing that?