ITT: eerie thoughts

Nothing memorable happening.

Your past self is thinking about you thinking about him ad infinitum.

>>17934213
All the time wasted on 4chan instead of doing something more constructive.

>>17934213
My current self hardly remembers his name half the time, so I doubt that.

>>17934213
You will never see your loved ones again after death :^)

Ayy lmao

>>17934213
>you can suck your own dick

>>17934284
Dis 1 rite here senpai

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>>17934213
somewhere, right now, something fucked up is happening in the world and im going to hear about it on the news in 24 hours, but for now im just watching tv in ignorant bliss

Everything you do has been predetermined by causality. Free will is an illusion.

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Posting an old text I wrote sometime.

A thought doesn't leave me alone. I call it the potential of evil. What I mean by this, is that any person would be capable of causing huge amounts of suffering, carnage and even death whenever they wanted, wherever they wanted. Nothing could really stop it.

I could craft a few dozen Molotov cocktails and go drive around my hometown tonight. I could burn it all down, and most likely I wouldn't get caught. I could even do this to other towns as well; people's homes, their workplaces, their churches... all the places they loved could be destroyed in one night because of the malevolence of one man. Millions or tens of millions worth of damage, all because an evil individual made it happen.

Maybe I wouldn't stop there. Maybe I targeted someone special. I'd start one night by puncturing the tires from his car. That would be pretty annoying, but it wouldn’t ruin his life. But a few days later he'd wake up to find his dog dead. His parents' house would be burned down. Perhaps after that his child would be kidnapped and never seen again. Finally, a masked man would break into his house, shoot his wife to death and maim him for the rest of his life, after taking everything he loved away from him.

What is so upsetting about this, is the realization that this could happen to me or you. We're not able to stop it, not even with guns, as some American is probably going to recommend soon. We are constantly under the threat that someone, for whatever reason, will unleash the beast inside him or her and wreak havoc, taking away things that couldn't be gotten back with insurance money.

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>>17937090
>What is so upsetting about this, is the realization that this could happen to me or you.

Not when you're protected by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

>>17937090
>guns won't work
>because reasons
w

>>17934213

And is very impressed, in my case.

>>17934213
This is the only type of reality you know of.

If my future self watches me having sex with mt BF does that make me gay?

>>17937613
Gets me every time.

>>17934213
No matter what you want to be when you grow up, you'll become old.

>>17937087
This one still bothers me, but I'm beginning to accept it.

Human science is so blissfully arrogant. Theoretical physics says lel anything can happen anytime! Because quantum whatevers! Probability! Randomness! Chaos!

Actions are defined by actions. It's an incomprehensibly vast web of actions, but nothing just happens, everything is caused by something. And there's no meaning behind it, it's just a simple reaction.

What we have is the ability to see and acknowledge this, but even very ability is predetermined. Fate is literally inescapable.

>>17937631
If you actually knew what the term free will meant there would be nothing for you to accept.
Your entire post is gross ignorance that borders on violent.

>>17937631
Don't know whether to applaud you or cringe.

So I'll go with both.

>>17937631
>a simple reaction
There is literally nothing simple about the gravity of dependency chains you call the universe.

>>17937634
>>17937636
>>17937637

Take it easy, lad.

>>17937639
Three different people just called you stupid.

>>17937639
>only one anon cares about free will

What are you? Some kind of shill or something?

>>17937639
I am not that anon. I just called you out on your samefagging.

>>17937631
How euphoric were you when you wrote this post?

in 80 or so years no one will ever knew you existed

>>17937675
I don't even think about you.

>>17937642
Meant for this moron here >>17937648

>>17937686
Shit, that hadn't even occurred to me.

Let all agree to never think about that anon ever.

>>17937693
No it wasn't.

Hello

>>17937634
So, you'd rather name call and sound superior than try and prove me wrong? Just admit my post made you feel uncomfortable about your beliefs and try to move past it.

>>17937636
You also sound offended by offering no argument. I couldn't accept it at first either, it's scary, but it's also vastly interesting to know that so much is inexorably entwined in ways we have no understanding of.

>>17937637
Please read posts fully before replying. In comparison to giving everything some kind of inherent meaning, it's all simple reactions, not some kind of cosmic thought process planned out.

Just like now me hates past me, future me will hate now me.

Now me also hates now me. Me hates me so very much.

>>17937711
Look at all that infantile projection

>>17937650
>I don't want to agree therefore it's le edgy fedorameister rant
>can't possibly try to question my succubus beliefs

>>17937711
1. Indicating the ignorance is present isn't an insult. There was no namecalling in that post.
2. They didn't sound offended at all to me.
3. I did read the entire post.
>it's all simple reactions
Is complete bullshit.

The universe is far more complex than you have shown any ability to comprehend.

>>17937721
You know you sound like even more of a defensive cringey kid now, right?

>>17937718
Hmm...I still don't see an argument here, only a buzzword about projection...

If you don't want to actually discuss it, that's a shame. But you're entitled to your beliefs, I guess.

>>17937721
>euphoric
Yes, it's disappointing that the anon forget that it's a real word with an actual meaning, but nothing they said has anything to do with succubi. Shitpost coherently or don't shitpost at all.

>>17937723
1. When you don't point out a flaw in a argument, yes it is, you just spout off how I'm ignorant and how things without backing anything up
2. That's because you're as offended as them and trying to be cool about it, otherwise you wouldn't be reacting like this
3. Yeah, again, read posts before you reply and miss vital details like, you know, explaining myself or anything

>>17937724
You sound even more offended, anon, why is this?

>>17937729
I was equating him unfavourably to the succubus shitposters, try to keep up here.

>>17937726
>>17937730
This right here is the epitome of childishness.
There is no argument to be made, no one tried to argue against any of the nonsense opinions you put forth. People criticized them on face value.
You're incapable of handling criticism, and clearly lack even a tiny shred of self awareness, so you immediately responded by getting defense, and using the most transparent projection ever witnessed by mankind.

Your post was grossly ignorant. Your posts still are grossly ignorant.

If a woman disagrees with you but you're not in the same room is she still wrong?

>>17937730
>don't point out a flaw
Shitposting isn't namecalling. Don't be a faggot.
>you
I'm not the anon that mentioned ignorance. Some other anon felt your post exhibited much ignorance.
>trying to be cool about it
Nobody gives a shit and nobody lurking here thinks that "looking cool on /x/" is something to tryhard for.
>explaining myself
Completely irrelevant. There is nothing even remotely simple about the most basic subatomic interactions in the physical model of the universe.

How you explain yourself and how you explain your wrong stance on the universe are two separate things. I don't care how you explain yourself because I'm not you. I do care how you explain the universe because I'm present within it.

>me from future
I'm really proud of you

>>17937734
And everyone else including you didn't get defensive? Yeah, sure, I'm the bad guy here when a bunch of people decided they couldn't handle a differing opinion, couldn't argue back and decided to shitpost their insecurities away.

Good job sounding like you're trying reasonable, though. But you keep using that projection thing, that really isn't a fool-proof buzzword to throw around, you know.

>>17937743
You're way too caught up on the usage of the word 'simple'. You really are. To the point you ignore every other single word around it. Please read posts fully before replying to them. If you have a sufficient level of reading comprehension, you'll realize that I meant in contrast to some kind of inherent cosmic magic meaning, that they are in fact mundane and every day occurrences.

But you go on, continue trying to sound superior, that'll get you real far in an argument.

>>17937765
Literally no one but you is defensive. You made a laughably stupid cringe post, and a handful of people all immediately called you out for it.
Its not that you presented some grand idea that anyone disliked, or was shocked by. You're honest to god a complete fucking retard, and you're too oblivious to realize how dumb you sound.

You sound like a 14 year old girl on tumblr. I'd bet good money that you actually are in that demographic.

>>17937769
No one else is being defensive, eh? Gee, that bunch of replies in a row really seems totally rational and not at all offended that they didn't like something,

Look, you're just namecalling at this point, and don't say you aren't. You're offended, clearly, and I'm so sorry I did that to you, because it's obviously terribly traumatic to know there's people out there who don't think the same way you do. You're talking for several people here, too, which is really great, good job there.

/x/ is so close-minded.

>>17937780
>even more defensive, projecting, teenage girl logic

Go take your lithium.

>>17937732
Yes, and that, insofar as shitposting goes, is incoherent, intolerant of /x/, stereotyping in a toxic anti-cultural manner, and just in general cancerous.
>>17937734
I don't know if I agree with all of that but I wouldn't ever insist it wasn't highly accurate.
>>17937765
>didn't get defensive
No. We all went on the offensive. We were insulting you to various degrees without really revealing our personal stances on the matter.

Personally I wasn't really trying to insult you, I just felt that calling the universe simple was braindead retarded. I'm not saying you're a braindead retard or anything, but if it walks like a duck...
>in contrast to some kind of inherent cosmic magic meaning
Your contrast is shit and you need to explain yourself better rather than expect people to get whatever connotation you thought were obvious.

And even in contrast to that, physics *still* isn't simple at all. And I would know.
>>17937780
>at all offended
Correct. Taking offense and offending someone are two different things. Neither of the first three replies to your post was all that much of an insult. You got defense way fast there. It's almost spooky how I could sense how much of a faggot you were gonna be about this.
>>17937780
>so sorry I did that to you
Well, at least you're remorseful about inflicting your braindead retardation on this board.

Being dead will feel the same as before being born.

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>>17937804
You've got a lot of patience to put up with delusional morons like that.

Nah nigga, i be watching me, watching myself; watching other people, watching me.

>>17937824
Patience is like antivenom to willful ignorance.

>>17937711
>You also sound offended
Yep. Now I know that it's cringe.
Thanks for the clarification.

>>17937837
>only an idiot would be offended by this sentence

Funny how only the ignorant self-select.

Either our will is determined or random, in which case they are both out of our direct control.

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>>17937847
That irony.

He says, ' I'm just glad you started. Probably should have sooner but you did well'

>>17937631
Anyone actually have an argument against this? I mean, yes he did word it stupidly, but i get what he's trying to say.

>>17937868
We all got it. Literally my only gripe was about using the word "simple." It is anything but, whether you use metaphysics as a baseline for comparison or not.

>>17937868
>I get what he's trying to say
Fucking applause.
He basicaly said

>shits gonna happen because shit has happened
>you cant escape the shit because it's gonna happen

Nigger, please.

I guess the samefagger left.
Wew lad...this was cringy.

>>17937974
This post improved the quality of this board.

>>17934213
That fear of ''what if'' concerning the paranormal based on past unexplained experiences.

>look in mirror
>"see you in hell, fucker"
>mutilate myself

That'll show that fucker in the future.

the brain named itself

>>17934213
No he isn't, I'm getting drunk off my fucking gourd

the robots will eventually take over.

>penis next to your face
>breath deeply
>look back
>penis still there
>look down
>you're naked
>your penis is gone
>realize you've become a woman

>>17937821

Wasn't that mark twain or something?

>>17938892
>>>/r/eddit

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>>17940044
I will be thinking about this the rest of my life

>>17934213
>watching from PC how a guy is watching a PC
all these future ass things and you dumb motherfucker chose to watch me

>>17937868
Cause and effect is an illusion. Every event is interconnected and it's our mind that applies linear causal chains. Technology is, if you like, a reflection of yourself and currently in an unsustainable cycle because not all things are being considered.

Although quantum behaviour is probabilistic, it still behaves in a mathematically predictable way. The fact that you can write an equation to predict an unlikely event is taken too much to heart IMO by an ill informed new age type.

In short predetermination may be interpretably correct but might in fact be fundamentally different in how events evolve and unfold to how our brains think about things.

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>>17937868
It's a stupid and redundant post. Scientists are ignorant because they admit they don't know, then we throw in a few buzzwords we don't understand and thus can't use properly in context so our post can warn others of our stupidity. Thanks.

>>17940891
Your post has too many "we"s to make sense.

>>17937603
You'd have to be standing guard in front of your house 24/7 in order for guns to work. Tard.

>>17940902
Translation: Then he throws in a few buzzwords he doesn't understand and thus can't use properly in context so his post can warn others of his stupidity.

>>17934284
Fucking this.
I'm going cold turkey starting monday.

>>17941054
Let us know how it goes.

>>17934213
Every year, you live through the future date of your death without realising it.

>>17937713
Hello karkat

>>17941054
usually I'd go "see you tomorrow" but honestly I can't wish that on anyone anymore, not after being here for so long and having been destroyed by it, in fact I wish you good luck anon, may you succeed where I failed.

>>17941484
>tfw didn't get the reference

>>17941493
>le edgy supreme
>oldfag flavor

>>17941498
Trust me, it's better that way

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>>17941498

>MFW I have no face

>>17941674
Saved. No doubt the first of many faces to come.
>>17941664
I got it after they mentioned it. I'm just surprised I didn't get it from the post alone.

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I am my future self.
I have come back again.
Fuck this universe in it's fucking neck with a fucking rake.

In 1000 years or so future people will discover our technology and inventions make stupid assumptions on them.

>>17942119
I'd give it 20.

>>17942171
>>17942119
Actually it's happening all around us as we speak

>>17942185
Yeah, I thought of that after I posted.

>>17941336
Spooky!

>>17937090
In short you say if somebody doesn't care anymore, they can do tremendous damage.
The reason governments shit on us is because we don't have enough of these people.

what if we never technically die, and we all live through someones memories, and they thought of us through random thought

>>17937631
> Quantum whatevers
> Disregarding all of quantum mechanics just because

>>17945315
His fundamentals are accurate, he just skipped a few key steps along the way.

>>17937631
And?

anyone ever have those moments when you look around in public at all the people and think 'all these people have their own lives and families and are doing their own thing.'

>>17945777
It is now referred to as "Sonder"

So, yes, lots of people have had this moment. It's an important one for perspective's sake.

http://nieldlr.com/2013/06/curious-case-word-sonder/

>>17937700
k

>>17937824
Filename.kek

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>>17934213
>>17934218
im so glad ive already come down...Becuase this would have just ruined it. but with this in my head, i wont be getting high again tonight. Thanks OP, im now resorting to alcohol.

YOU LET THIS HAPPEN

>>17934213
Your life is completely pointless. Chances are, you will do nothing worthwhile with your life. Best case scenario, you will get a good job and have a loving family. But in 100 years you will all be dead so it doesn't matter. Even if you conquered the entire planet, your life would still be completely meaningless. Our planet is nothing compared to the unfathomable size of the universe. Humanity will most likely never even make it out of the solar system. Imagine us as a single grain of sand in the ocean. Then imagine that ocean as a grain of sand in another ocean. That's roughly how significant we are in the universe.

>>17945777
Well for me I instead picture everyone in public taking a shit. What exactly that would look like. Or being really furious, spittle flying and everything.

Also I think of how they'd look having sex. The fact that they're all here because their father decided not to stuff his sausage up their mother's fetid turd cutter and then 9 months later they were squirted out, destroying their mom's cunt so dad's penis isn't gripped all that well anymore so he became a bit cross about that.

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There's a time in your life where your mother put you down and never picked you up again.

>>17946102
Haha nice try bitch my mother never loved me and barely ever touched me, showed you huh kid

*teleports into a noose*

>>17946102
My mother died in childbirth, you inconsiderate prick.

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>>17946142
Good

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>>17946117

>>17946142
Damn shame she didn't take you with her, faggot.

Well, fuck you, too future-self.

>>17937686
...most of the time.

>>17937087
Lol what if I start flailing around and running around like a chicken with it's head cut off? Bet you couldn't predetermine THAT!

>>17945208
Not sure.

>>17937631
ok owlman

>>17934213

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO8Gsy-EWKQ

Watching You Without Me

("What's that?")
("It's four, five, six, seven...")

You can't hear me.
You can't hear me.
You can't hear what I'm saying.
You can't hear what I'm saying to you.

You watch the clock
Move the slow hand.
I should have been home
Hours ago,
But I'm not here.
But I'm not here.

You can't hear me.
You can't hear me.
You can't feel me
Here in the room with you now.
You can't hear what I'm saying.
You don't hear what I'm saying, do you?

Can't let you know
What's been happening.
There's a ghost in our home,
Just watching you without me.
I'm not here.
("You don't hear me.") [backwards]
But I'm not here.
(You can't hear me.)
But I'm not here.
(You don't hear what I'm saying.)

>>17950603

Don't ignore, don't ignore me
Let me in and don't be long
Don't ignore, don't ignore me
Let me in and don't be long
Don't ignore, don't ignore me
Let me in and don't be long

We see you here. [backwards]

You don't hear me come in
Help me, baby! Help me, baby! Talk to me! Listen to me
Listen to me! Talk to me! Help...
(You can't hear me.) (backwards)
Listen, baby! Listen to me, baby! Help me, help me, baby!
Talk to me! Talk to me! Please, baby, talk to me!
(You can't hear me.) (backwards)
You won't hear me leaving

>>17940891
I swear to god i saw this post atleast 3 times are you trying to create a dejavu?

>>17940910
>guns have never prevented someone from busting into someone else's house to cause a ruckus for no reason

not if i kill myself

>>17934213
if you remember the first time you masterbated and like that thought, are you a pedo?

Heres something I thought about the last time I did mushrooms and things got too real:

>nothing we do matters, we are just apes on a blue and green spec of dust in the infinite blackness of the universe
>the way we communicate doesn't matter, words and meanings are just the product of human perception
>we all are just waiting for SOMETHING to happen
>we are all on this journey called life and no one really knows how to make the most of it
>we are dominated by machines and a government that forces us to work our lives away for trivial things that don't matter
>nothing matters as everything will be gone someday
>time isn't real, we just float in space and wait to die
>there's probably a cosmic force somewhere in the universe that would look at us the same way we look at viruses or bacteria
>nothing matters except for my friends sitting here high on mushrooms with me. If we are but apes on this journey known as life, they are the tribe I choose. The family I choose. And they are the only thing that truly matters in my short visit on this world

Aaaand that's why I'll probably never do shroomies again... at least for a while

You will forget being here when you're 80

>>17951415
Thank fucking god

>>17951410
these say much more about your psyche than any sort of universal truths which you seem to think.

>>17934213
it's sad

When we sleep, we control our soul and consciene, giving us the ability to go to the past and the future.

We just still haven't learned it yet.

>>17950435
I could if I just cut off your head.

>>17950641
Wouldn't be the first time someone wanted to create artificial deja vu,

>>17935873
We'll never see anything after death

>>17951410

>anon repeats what the media has been teaching him since 2th grade

>>17940072
Yes we get, you want to show us your favorite website. Fuck off

This * too will pass.

There are only 250 active /x/ anons in the entire world

>>17937631
We also have the ability to apply meaning to that which has no meaning. Everything that we observe demands a special definition from us; by understanding what we see and acting on what we know is right, we add meaning to our existence.

One day I could end up killing someone and prove that I was right about it being easy to live with.

>>17937631
I had this thought while on LSD, I believe it lets you see reality for what it really is.

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>>17951410
Sounds pretty close-minded and pandering to the typical not more negative view of life.

>Everything's for something, government gives order for all these somethings to be put together for outcomes much greater.
>Making the most of it is trying to make the most of it for not just yourself, but humanity.
>Not everything is going to perish if we continue to strive for immortality and colonization and even then, why do you think the physical present universe is all there is? Are your dreams even physical?
>Time is a circle or rather a never-ending series of circles forming a sphere
>Trying to help matters and I'm not saying by just planting trees and giving money to homeless people, but trying to push science forward, not being some jack-off nihilist

I would really reconsider being friends with you if you repeat all this negativity the typical "third-eye enlightened" 9th grader spews. How could you possibly say it's all really for nothing? Everything has an effect, no matter how small it may seem. Every action has the potential to snowball. We don't know everything, but we're trying to. We're not trying to forget everything and destroy everything we've created.

T R I G G E R E D

>>17958589
its ironic i found your post in reaction to his, because you guys are both talking about something that has been on my mind for a long time, something that i realized on a very intense acid trip a while back too.

i was thinking about the infiniteness of the universe, and the idea of "meaning" , and came to the conclusion of the universe being both infinitely meaningful and beautiful, and equally empty and void like. this really overwhelmed me and made me feel like a negative person for a while afterwards, but over time I've come to realize what i found and felt.

its like that quote, "either we are alone in the universe or we aren't. both thoughts are overwhelming". the universe works mentally and manifests based off of what YOU believe really, and no matter what you believe in, we all are aware that theres more going on , AND LESS than we thought too. so you guys arguing, both are right, both are wrong. YES everything happens for a reason, but because nothing happens for a reason. its a big paradox and were really able to do is choose how we feel about it.

>>17958834
"meaning" doesn't exist on its own until its created, so when you look at the void, no shit the void looks back. but when you look at someone/something you love, well, at least its not the void were used to.

>>17958834
Yeah, they both lead somewhere, but there really is little point in believing or trying to gravitate towards the concept of ruin and nothingness. There's nothing to gain.

>>17935873
They were all you to begin with anyways. We are all one.

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>>17958903
WE ALL ONE

>>17941719
KURISUUUUU

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>>17938892
The Universe named itself.

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>>17942119
>>17942171
>>17942185
>>17942195

>>17937090
Uhm, these things already happen quite a lot

>>17934213
God is real. He is Jesus Christ.

>>17951410
I personally had the revelation that faith is part of the human nature and thinking that there is a meaning to life and that we all serve a higher purpose is what keeps us going. Be it true or not.

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>>17959343

>>17959343
Why is that eerie anon ?
Shouldnt christfags be overjoyed for this fact ?

Maybe there's no paranormal. No higher meaning to anything. Maybe this is all we've got. I can't think of anything more horrifying.

>>17934284
AHHHH FUCK THAT'S SCARY

>>17958867
agreed

Memories aren't even real. They're not exact recordings of the past. When you remember something, you're not remembering it as it was. You're remembering relating bits of information and recreating an image in your head.

Also my future self isn't watching me because my future self doesn't exist. The future doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned and you can't actually prove that it does.

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>>17937631
>what is causality
>certainly not a scientifical explanation that everything has a cause

>>17937850
See this is a much better twist on
>>17937087
And
>>17937631

>>17951410
your beliefs are no more valid than a fundamentalist christian's or a jew's.

all the things you said are just assumptions largely based on how you think and feel. it's all projection and from the looks of it, it's all skewed negatively.

shrooms are just mind trips, anon, inherently without meaning. you'll see distortions and images and feel different emotions during your trip. but then you attach meaning onto all of it based on what emotions you felt.

if you felt euphoria you'll think about how much love there is in life and so on. if you felt depression, you'll think about how bleak and short life is. none of that is actually true. it's just a ride like a rollercoaster.

>>17959319
Well, I had a good run. Life's not worth living anymore. Goodbye everyone.

There is a baby being born right now that'll become the next Hitler.

There are babies being born right now that will grow up to rape and murder. Next time you see a baby and think it's cute, also think about the fact that it might do some terrible shit in a few years.

>>17941054
See you Tuesday.

>>17961652
Every time I look at a baby, that's what I think. "Who are you going to become once you're free?"

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>>17937087
>what losers believe to shift blame of personal failings

>>17945323
Yeah let's just disregard anything that can BTFO your belief, just because it doesn't fit your narrative

>>17963553
Like the loser Sam Harris, right? Retard.

>>17941493

I have been here for ten years and I don't think I can stop.

>>17963560
>everything has a cause
No shit.
>take that as ultimate evidence free will does not exist
Retarded.
>even disregarding the randomness of quantum mechanics to avoid getting easily BTFO
Completely retarded.

>>17963591
read>>17937850

Either our actions are determined by prior causes or they are determined by random events in nature. In either case, there is no argument for the existence of free will.

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>>17963595
The entire purpose of consciousness is to be able to make relatively complex decisions in the moment while having instincts, emotions, prior experiences and imagination to help us making that decision.
Just because everything has a cause it doesn't mean that our decisions are made for us.
Keep telling yourself the opposite so high school seems like a less painful memory to you, lmao.

>>17963642
When understanding that everything has a cause (aside from randomness on an extremely minuscule level, which can also be debated) the causal chain can be traced back prior to your birth. In this way, all of your proclivities and actions could be predicted if all the variables were known.

A second argument is that of the pleasure principle. All of our actions are aimed at producing the most pleasurable outcomes. In this way, we can only choose those things which we are hardwired to enjoy, hence disputing free will yet again. Here is a mental exercise - give me an example of a decision in which happiness is not the goal.

>>17934213
Taste buds inside your anus.

>>17934213

Not me.

Family history of dementia, shrinking brain, brain tumor, and evidence of memory loss.

I'm not going to remember shit and I have a good 30 years to go.

>>17963690

I know this is b8, however if garlic is inserted into the vagina, some will actually taste it. So "taste" in the anus, which is very vascular, is not out of the realm of possibility.

I'm sure some fetishists who are into that kind of thing could tell us. But that's no so much eerie as it is just interesting biologically.

>>17963710
Dunno bout you mayne but this sounds creepy af

>>17963655
>could be predicted
I smack you in the face, then predict that you're gonna fight back. Nope! Too late, fucker, you can't do that now because it means it's not free will. My predictive abilities have literally stolen your free will.

>>17963719

Well, also think of how being on their period would effect their ability to taste. Or even standard day-to-day vaginal fluid would?

It must suck having something out of your control altering how you smell and taste.

Isaiah 57:15King James Version (KJV)

15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.


God already knows everything that has ever taken place.

>>17963720
What the fuck kind of argument is that? The concept of causality went right over your head.

>>17937734
God I'm tired of semantics

>>17963774
Prediction means nothing in terms of free will. The fact that you can predict a thing doesn't mean it's not a genuine decision. Causality is irrelevant in the terms you present it.

>>17963916
What's important is that every decision is simply one step in a massive chain of former events. These events can be traced prior to ones birth, hence the concept of free will is impossible.

>>17963916
Also, if one's actions can be predicted 100% of the time, then there would be no possibility of the individual choosing an alternative course of action.

>>17963979
There you go. Involving prediction only pollutes the logic.

Still, I disagree because causality can as well cause a decision-making-process to exist as it can make a linear causal chain exist. Seriously look up the mathematics of Oracles and just computability in general.
>>17963983
Precisely, but the decisions they make are still their own, even if an outside force manipulates which types of decisions they make.

>>17964001
>There you go. Involving prediction only pollutes the logic.

Alright, I will concede on this point. That said, causality or randomness on a subatomic level cannot be argued in favor of free will. Either our decisions are a result of a causal chain or they are are the result of random events, both of which are out of our control. It has less to do with external manipulation but rather internal proclivities which are hard wired.

>>17964017
So you're saying decisions don't exist. Reacting to stimuli in any dynamic capacity isn't possible on a conceptual level.

>>17964039
The pleasure principle refutes this concept. Certainly there are a myriad of factors that go into decision making, but the end goal is always pleasure and happiness. Because of this, we can only act according to what we think will produce the most enjoyment. In this way we are bound by our own intrinsic nature.

>>17964054
>there are a myriad of factors that go into decision making
Alright, then that's a separate argument from causality. Even in a causal system, you can create a mechanical apparatus that will do different things based on slightly different predecessor criteria. The human brain, for example, can randomly remember something from the age of five and dynamically react to it even 20, 30, and 80 years later. When you can make decisions based on predecessor criteria that existed 80 years ago, only 80 years ago, and hasn't happened (in your experience) since 80 years ago, you kind of have to admit that complexity can and has emerged pretty severely in at least the human brain, if nowhere else.

>>17964066
It is not entirely a separate argument because our pleasure seeking nature is due to causal events of which we have no control. That said, it further explains how even a complex decision can be reduced to a simple mechanism. Definitely the brain can react differently at different types, however, this is no argument in favor of free will considering we are not the authors of such change.

>>17964085
>causal events of which we have no control
Except we do. We can choose to look at porn, to fap, to not look at porn, to fap despite not looking at porn, and control our future conditioning by the decisions we make during our predecessor states.

I get where you're coming from, but you argument isn't complete yet. Some people take meth and never take it again. There's something different going on there per-person. Even if you don't believe free will is involved in individuality, you still have to admit that our DNA is capable of producing vastly emergent complexity to the degree that we can say we have emergent identities regardless of how those identities came about.
>a complex decision can be reduced to a simple mechanism
Wrong. The fact that it's a causal system says nothing about the complexity of the mechanism. The reason I used the phrase "linear causal chain" in an earlier post was precisely because of that conflation. There is nothing simple about the types of mechanisms we see in decision making processes. Even if every part of the system is perfectly decidable/computable, it can still be a vastly complex system with no easy method of probing its inner causal mechanics. It's like calling a common solar-powered calculator a desktop PC. Complexity exists independent of causal reasoning.

>>17964109
>Except we do. We can choose to look at porn, to fap, to not look at porn, to fap despite not looking at porn, and control our future conditioning by the decisions we make during our predecessor states.

Not true. We can only do what we perceive to be the most pleasurable. If that means watching porn, you will have no choice but to do that thing. You may argue that there are situations where pleasure is not the apparent goal (such as hard work, study etc.) but actually long term satisfaction is the goal. While I admit there are extensive and complex variables at play, it really does boil down to "what will give me the most pleasure"

>>17964109
Also understand this: you may say that it was your free decision to have sex. However, did you modulate your nature so that you would enjoy such an act? Of course not. You can do as you will, but you cannot will as you will. This is the essence of my argument.

>>17964120
>what we perceive to be the most pleasurable
That's wrong though. Not all decisions are motivated by pleasure. If everyone did what was most pleasurable at any given moment, we'd live in a vastly different world. The fact that you and I are here now, talking about people fapping rather than being on /d/, actually fapping, means that what put us here was something other than conscious selection for feelings of pleasure. If you're using some private notion of "pleasure," you'll need to expand on what that is if you wish to discuss it.

If you're saying all possible emotions are just variant forms of pleasure, that's a different argument entirely.
>long term satisfaction
Now you're getting closer to a coherent argument. "Satisfaction" is sufficiently general a concept that we can say the biological brain always tries to aim for future or current satisfaction. Pleasure is not a valid way to make the claim.
>>17964124
>did you modulate your nature so that you would enjoy such an act?
To be completely honest, I'm a hypnotist and AI researcher. I've both given myself fetishes as well as removed them before. I am in total control of my future psyche and in the cases where someone consents to hypnosis, I can even be in control of other people's psyches. I can and have changed my metawill on a regular basis to test the various operational modes that are presumably embedded in my physiological brain.

In this case, we could say you had no choice to make your side of this argument because you have no experience with that level of metacognition.

Similarly, I had no choice but to make my side of this argument because I have extensive experience with exactly what you're claiming doesn't exist.

You can doubt me on this, of course, and if you could ignore this set of claims for the time being, I prefer to discuss things in terms of pure concepts and reasoning. I do think everyone has the ability to create future habits that will improve their ability to make decisions.

>>17964146
It is important to define what I mean by "pleasure". Certainly there are base physical pleasures such as eating or fucking, and there are also more subtle, intellectual pleasures such as reading a book or discussing philosophy. There are also more abstract pleasures such as altruism or dying for a cause. In each case, what is considered to be the most fulfilling and satisfactory among all of these things is chosen 100% of the time. If you deliberate on this deeply you will find it is absolutely true.

I do not doubt you can influence others. I would argue, however, that your actions which created the change were not really your own, just in the same way the person you influenced was not of their own doing. While you may feel you are altering your own psyche, it is not really your doing either.

>>17945961
Acid? I've learned not to browse x after dropping.

>>17964155
>If you deliberate on this deeply you will find it is absolutely true.
I have done so on numerous occasions and it truly isn't. This argument is wrong for every user of the term "pleasure." Satisfaction is a much better approximation of the utility function of the brain. To conflate the supposed pleasure sensations with the process that select between them is entirely invalid in the context of debating free will. You're getting there, but your argument isn't real yet. Not in any causal or conceptual sense.

>it is not really your doing either
Then whose? The universe? Chaos? No matter which origin you ascribe the causal chain to, it's still going to be categorically me that did it just because there's no other emergent identity to blame for it. Again, we are individuals even by our genetic code, if nothing else. (And that's a big if.)

>>17964184
>To conflate the supposed pleasure sensations with the process that select between them is entirely invalid in the context of debating free will.

Again, it is not that you can 'select' a certain pleasurable thing among the different varieties of satisfactory choices. You can only choose the most appealing, the most gratifying option, absolutely every time.

You could say the universe is compelling you to do these things. While it is "you" in a sense, you as an individual is not the author of these choices and decisions.

>>17964184
To further solidify my argument, please give me an example of you choosing between different potential pleasure inducing choices with autonomy.

>>17934213
Your future self is remembering the last time you had sex and is fapping to it.

>>17964206
Fuck off normie

>>17964199
>you as an individual is not the author
But I am. There is no other identity or causal chain to blame. Even if it's "just because by DNA was like that from the very beginning," it's still my DNA.

Nobody can say it was their DNA, nobody can say the universe planned that DNA, nobody can take credit for the identity that emerges within my body. In all forms of all categories, the only one that can truly claim to be me is me. My genetic twin might be able to fool some people, but I'm pretty sure I'm not a twin, that I've never been cloned, and even if there is someone like that out there in the world to potentially blame for my me-ness, like identical twins, the people that know me well would be able to tell me apart from those clones. Someone who has no prior experience with me won't, but to the people who know me best and spend time with me and care about me, they'll be able to tell me apart.

You're admitting that things happen, that they can be called decisions, and that metacognition is a real thing. To most people, that encompasses their natural sense of identity. Most people don't think of themselves as timeless metaphysical beings to begin with, so per your terms free will is already a given for most people. Only a severely small fraction of intensely metacognitive individuals would get to this point in the argument and still feel that you might have a point. The truth is that the definition of identity encompasses the gratification process and the sensation of deliberating prior to making a decision is precisely what it means to have free will. Nobody insists that free will is a truly metaphysical process that supersedes the universe and time itself, but that it exists even within the framework of definition that we end up calling "the universe."

At this level of dialogue, >90% of people's notions of free will are totally compatible with your notions, save for the fact that you refuse to blame people for being themselves. Identity is a real idea.

>>17964202
We can do that after you've made your argument. I still don't acknowledge that you've made one yet. The concept of blame and free will are interlinked to such a degree that I foresaw that this might be a discussion of the nature of identity in the end. It went about exactly as I thought it would, and when we're done with this conceptual argument I can share more about my personal experiences with you.

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>Somebody could purposefully hit you with a car and kill you as you walk home at night, and they'd probably never be caught
>I have had this thought both as the pedestrian and the man in the car

>>17964260
>purposefully
deliberately

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>>17934213
unless you get that old-timers disease

You're stuck being you for the rest of your life.

>>17941336
So it's like a birthday but without the misery.

>>17941336
please delete this

damn he's gonna be pissed at all my failed attempts at nofap

>>17964260
Yeah, that's unless you don't miss...
Otherwise he will see your plate and may call the cops on you...
also : >Tires trace
There is not just one kind of tires you know...
It's like a footprint of the killer.
Even two tires of the same brand and size would be different by use.

>>17965271 Then don't miss. Or hell, just stop slowly I the middle of the road, shoot him, then hop back in your car and drive off. Easy peasy.

>>17937631
What do you gain by thinking about this? Why does it matter whether or not everything is predetermined by fate?

>>17937675
That's pretty stupid. I'm 21 years old, so in 80 years I will be 101 or likely dead, right? Assuming I procreate at or after 25, the average age for my sex in my country (which is fairly likely considering my lifestyle), my offspring would be at the very oldest 76 years old 80 years from now. Life expectancy in the US is 78 years, so it's likely that not only would someone know I existed, but those I raised or at least my grandchildren would still be alive and have countless memories of me. Even if I never have any children, which is unlikely, I already have young nephews whom I see frequently. I am also a pre-medical student so assuming I succeed and get into medical school and become a physician, I will have countless patients much younger than me throughout my life who will outlive me and surely remember my existence.

>>17965259
Not me but why?

>>17965217
Not if you get into witness protection!

Here's an erie thought:
Good and evil in wartime is in the eye of the beholder.

Both sides of a conflict depict themselves as good and the other side as bad to fuel hatred of the other side that supports the war.

This has even gone so far as to one country placing citizens in concentration camps because their parents or ancestors were born in the enemy country.

This has also led to countries using unethical weapons with maximum prejudice.

Both sides do good and bad things but the victors always write the history books.

>>17965534
I just want you to know that the earth is overpopulated and you shouldn't reproduce.

>>17965552
I don't care what you think. If every couple has two children, the population is sustainable. I plan to have 1 or 2 children for selfish reasons. Why should I do anything except for selfish reasons? The only way I experience reality is through the lens of myself so my life is more important to my reality than anything else. I feel bad for you if you can't accept that reality because you will be unhappy and of course one person's actions cannot affect any measurable change. Also, just so you know, developed countries tend toward aging populations and the world is headed toward the development of nations, for the most part. The population's rate of growth has actually been on decline since the 1960s. Please take your misinformed convictions and don't project them onto my unimportant life.

>>17965622
>Why should I do anything except for selfish reasons?
Because you plan to be a parent some day, idiot.

>>17965623
Isn't that selfish though? I'm not saying I lack empathy; I'm saying that helping others helps me either feel better or gain a friend or something in return or whatever. I don't see this as a negative.

>>17965632
Literally, you'll understand when you have kids.

>>17937804
well like, the universe is simple... and complex. yanno man?

>>17950435
don't know why but i keked

>>17950435
>not able to predetermine autism on /x/

Every person is god, and every person is you and when you die you become another person/entity

>>17963593
i pick which slit the particle goes through but how do i even know i chose that? how do i know my "choice" isn't really just the accumulation of all my past experiences and thoughts leading up to one predetermined moment?

>>even disregarding the randomness of quantum mechanics to avoid getting easily BTFO

stuff thats easily predictable now seemed random as fuck back in the day.

but even if free will does exist all THAT really is is one probability playing out within' an infinite amount of probabilities.

furthermore think about the fact that you literally can't even change the past if it's just 1 nano second ago so at what point, in what moment does freewill start?