Occultism & Magick

>>17818230
Incidentally I'm up to 74 pages of notes & letters and the goddamn doc's so poorly formatted I need to start a second one, which is well and fine, I guess.

Bump?

>>17818230
groovy, you take a look at the Newton material?

Bumpsky, i'm so glad the threads are back in business. And me too, reading Kapleau motivated me to start doing Hyatt's meditations again. Excatly as the book said i would, too.

Re-reading it after a year and half, man, it is so dense, there's so much going on.

Every man and woman is a star.

>>17818410
Huh?
You mean like Gravity Newton's alchemy or some newfag I've not caught wind of?

>>17818424
>every man and woman is a star
But not any man or woman may attain to the Body of Nu's Gliding Curves and the Jeweled Vault of Her Resplendant Archways.

>>17818462
>But not any man or woman may attain to the Body of Nu's Gliding Curves and the Jeweled Vault of Her Resplendant Archways.

"Many are called, but few are chosen"

>>17818233
Whole wiki there for you to build on top of if you need structure m8

Definitely worth putting them into some kind of reasonable format in case any /x/-tards attempt it next year, some key insight in them from what I remember

>>17818567
Just emailed you, I wanna break the fucking 40ish pages of letters we have into slightly more diligent records, bleach names, etc.

>>17818577
That's actually kind of similar to the kind of tasks I'd get at work.

Possibly a way to do it that doesn't involve copy/pasting....but that might actually be quicker

>>17818582
I already pdf archived it all and it's just a matter of converting, ctrl+f to get rid of names, dropping the Keith bitchfest, keeping the DCS comments, then putting back into pdf.

>>17818587
I'd appreciate a read-through before it goes anywhere, just to make sure any personal data is out of it

But yeah. those letters have some great stuff in them, it'd be good to archive them

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>“As I was saying, if we do not understand the nature of effort, all action is limiting. Effort creates its own frontiers, its own objectives, its own limitations. Effort has the time-binding quality. You say, ‘I must meditate, I must make an effort to control my mind’. That very effort to control puts a limit on your mind. Do watch this, do think it out with me. To live with effort is evil; to me it is an abomination, if I may use a strong word. And if you observe, you will realize that from childhood on we are conditioned to make an effort. In our so-called education, in all the work we do, we struggle to improve ourselves, to become something. Everything we undertake is based on effort; and the more effort we make, the duller the mind becomes."

>J Krishnamurti Collected Works, Vol. XI,229,Action

What say you, /omg/?

>>17818601
The exhaustion theory...chop wood and carry water before, during, and after enlightenment.

That said, he's speaking as a Divya to Vira who need to cool their jets (I would fall into the 'cool your jets' category) but Vira gonna Vira as hard as Pashu gonna Pashu.

>>17818594
Aye just don't go total dark on me and I'll send you the edits; I'll probably maybe do some wiki stuff as the KULA material takes off.

Incidentally someone's using my version of The Tomb to self initiate to Zelator after defecting from a lineage. I think the person supervising the document transfer just slipped up and gave me the proper NOX key analysis but I like mine better :)

Lurking.

>>17818613

So, you don't think he talking bout the underlying selfish motive in seeking enlightment. Watts was talking about extensively, but coupled with his lectures on the nature of Self, i don't think he considered it particularly wrong.

How can you not be selfish? The chapters on Bodhicitta in the Introduction to Tantra was like come on son.

I'm not striving for siddhis, but how can i help others before i actually help myself out of Trap.

They enjoy it, i just don't, we're diametrically opposed.

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>>17818587
>Keith bitchfest
I want to see that.

>>17818601
Interestingly, this is entirely consistent with the work in hypnotherapy and boosting efficiency that I've been doing.

The more the neocortex is active, the less the automatic processes are allowed to work, and thus, information processing and parsing slows down significantly.

>>17818613
No worries m8, I'll be around, feel free to send over whatever and I'll take a look.

Ah cool, what lineage? Make sure you get reports on how it worked for that person, always good to have some test data on it

>>17818613
>proper NOX key analysis
I want that.

>my version of The Tomb
I can't seem to find it in my docs. You got a copy?

I've never been big on ritual, but I'm more than happy to read these things, and see how they fit together.

Also let me know when I can start working towards a hypno-DBoE.

>>17818651
I think he is but I think it's irrelevant as he's speaking from a position of effortlessness and equipoise.

I agree that helping self is the precursor to helping others. "For the good of all sentient beings" I do my rites.

>>17818601

He's right, but as >>17818613 notes his effort to warn the jet set is likely in vain.

Joel Biroco argues something similar, albeit implicitly from the vantage point of Ipsissimus. Better to drift along with the currents and eddies of chaotic existence than ever flailing about. It's also one of the central themes of Chuang Tzu's Taoism.

>>17818613
>I think the person supervising the document transfer just slipped up and gave me the proper NOX key analysis but I like mine better :)

Kewl.

>>17818651
>So, you don't think he talking bout the underlying selfish motive in seeking enlightment.

Thus the oath of the Bodhisattva. Some are similarly damned in the Western trad as well.

>>17818811
>oath of the Bodhisattva
That's basically the Oath of the Abyss right there. Interesting parallel.

>>17818841
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOyOcjA_T6k

Based Bill

>>17818860
Based indeed.

>>17818868
Satyr has an engineering degree.
Surgo is a licensed hypnotherapist.
Our resident Vajrayana's a mathemetician.
I hold an archaeo degree and am working towards an MPA.

Care to try again?

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>some people are not only ok their own suffering and attachments, but are enjoying them, and seek to expand them to others

>lol bro we gonna go over into the void and shiet but first you got to get into a mindset of tripping over yourself about redpill random Hylics and reprobates who will meet your help with outright disdain, or at best laugh at you

How about no?

>>17818889
>redpill
Go back to /fringe/. Or /pol/. Or /r9k/
>implying there's a difference between their paranoia

>>17818899

No. Pratyeka is the way.

>>17818941
>Pratyeka
Is that not what we're all doing here by basic definition of the word?

In any case who ever said anything about redpills or condescension, other than you.

I'm curious about weird and new stuff, so can somebody introduce me to whatever it is that you guys are talking about?

>>17819031
http://xoanon.co.uk/publications/the-dragon-book-of-essex/

Can occultism or magick really affect the physical world, beyond the mind?
I understand people have used it to cause their bodies to do some very odd things still within the realm of possibility, but can it actually do something outside the mind that would be considered paranormal?

>>17819267
Bem had a very interesting experiment on telepathy.
Beyond that... https://archive.org/details/AnIntroductionToParapsychology

>>17819366
>https://archive.org/details/AnIntroductionToParapsychology
An interesting read, even if the experiments were a bit dull. Still gives me a bit of hope, even though it's clearly due to confirmation bias.

>>17819392
>it's clearly due to confirmation bias.
http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/28/the-control-group-is-out-of-control/

Bem, Tressoldi, Rabeyron, and Duggan (2014), full text available for download at the top bar of the link above, is parapsychology’s way of saying “thanks but no thanks” to the idea of a more rigorous scientific paradigm making them quietly wither away.

You might remember Bem as the prestigious establishment psychologist who decided to try his hand at parapsychology and to his and everyone else’s surprise got positive results. Everyone had a lot of criticisms, some of which were very very good, and the study failed replication several times. Case closed, right?

Earlier this month Bem came back with a meta-analysis of ninety replications from tens of thousands of participants in thirty three laboratories in fourteen countries confirming his original finding, p < 1.2 * -1010, Bayes factor 7.4 * 109, funnel plot beautifully symmetrical, p-hacking curve nice and right-skewed, Orwin fail-safe n of 559, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

By my count, Bem follows all of the commandments except [6] and [10]. He apologizes for not using pre-registration, but says it’s okay because the studies were exact replications of a previous study that makes it impossible for an unsavory researcher to change the parameters halfway through and does pretty much the same thing. And he apologizes for the small effect size but points out that some effect sizes are legitimately very small, this is no smaller than a lot of other commonly-accepted results, and that a high enough p-value ought to make up for a low effect size.

This is far better than the average meta-analysis. Bem has always been pretty careful and this is no exception.

So – once again – what now, motherfuckers?

Which dark god can I pray to so I actually study and write papers in a timely fashion and not flunk out? α-Methylphenethylamine has too many side effects.

>>17819421
Set.
He's Thoth's nephew (iirc), and Thoth taught him all of his secrets before Set went sideways as a drunken rapist.

>>17819424
>getting into a contest with your nephew to see who can get the other one to eat semen
It's just a prank! HAHA!

>>17819448
It was a simpler time.

>>17819448
Set falls for it every time.

How does one Name a thing? As in, in dealing with a spirit or archetype or thoughtform, is there a best practice for giving it name and form?

>>17819404
What does this mean

What does any of this thread mean?

Not that guy I'm just lurking

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Bump?

>>17820105
Statistics.

Can you actually become a powerful wizard?

>>17820517
No. It's literally all in your head.

>>17820523
But how far can you be taken? Will it happen with enough focus and belief?

>>17820609
It really depends on what you want to do.
You can definitely affect other people with belief. We're social creatures, you can exert power over others if they see you believe and think you're right. If you believe you can control someone and they believe it too, congratulations, you control them.
You can also do 'superhuman' things with your own body. Feats of strength and speed like people on PCP or methamphetamine are capable of.

You can't do anything your body can't do though. You'll never 'cast a spell' or extend your life or summon something.

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>>17820517

Yes you can.

>>17820523
A e s t h e t i c

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>>17820191
>egyptian shaivist lemegeton voudou sigil

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>>17821516
>east anglican toad grymoires

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>>17821516
Shhh, no tears.

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>>17821564

>>17818841
>That's basically the Oath of the Abyss right there. Interesting parallel.

It's a close parallel, but I'm -- so far -- unconvinced the two are identical.

>>17819267
>Can occultism or magick really affect the physical world, beyond the mind?

That is a question best decided for yourself.

>>17820517

Yes.

>>17820609
>Will it happen with enough focus and belief?

Focus is probably required. Belief is not.

>>17820640

kek

On a personal note, glad some folks are finding these threads interesting or even helpful. Maybe there's hope yet. And many thanks to the Ape for making it happen.

>>17821584
>It's a close parallel, but I'm -- so far -- unconvinced the two are identical.

>Mind of Enlightenment
Magus, anyone?

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Can you tell me abut metatron's cube please ?

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>>17821638

>>17821638

Try meditating on it.

>>17821564

"The heart's permanent... mind... forget it!"

>>17821569

Tell me the truth nignog...

...you've got a gaping vagina beneath all that rubber...

...don't you?!

We call Willy Wonka boys basically just baby Blue's Clues shoes.

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>>17821638
>>17821666

ayyyyyyyy

>>17821692
A E S T H E T I C

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>>17821722
Literally 3 minutes in SketchBook.

>>17821654
Can you explane it or show a place where I could find info on it. Please.

>>17821801
Letters = contemplative paths.

I just realized all my dreams are initiatic in nature. Or most, at leastmost. Every one begins in twilight with a passage into the underworld, a journey through a labyrinth of signs, and the meeting with a Mystery. Then the twilit dawn. I really need to work on paying more attention and writing this shit down. The last I forgot and the one before had a hedge of brambles and an abandoned house and ended with a joke involving a lingham and a soundless word akin to prostanitiation and soul stimulation mashed together.

>>17821588

Isn't one who has generated bodhicitta a bodhisattva?

>>17821875
Nope. The Bodhisattva is the one who vows to generate the Bodhicitta. At least that's how I understand it to work.

>>17821905
Mostly right by my understanding, although the two are independent. With a certain bodhicitta you may be drawn into the Bodhisattva path. It's like all of us and our jobs. Would you do yours for free? You probably do aspects of it without getting paid already. Others will only suck dick for money. I only do it when I want to, because I can't do what I don't want to do.

>>17821927
Or rather, one cultivates feeling obliged to help those he is most capable of helping. By reaching the goal, you are most capable of helping all. Obligation is a powerful motivator. Which reminds me that I want to do some charity work, but most of it is too based in handouts and not so much in giving someone the power to improve their own life. I already have people I throw my time and money into a hole for and try not to feel smug about.

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>>17822015

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>>17822020

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>>17822025

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>>17822028

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>>17822025
Is from the unpublished Initiatory version of the Dragon Book of Essex. Pic related is one of the pages, though illegible.

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>>17822037

>>17822015
Do occult orders require charity work? I like helping my community but my community is my immediate family and like 3 other people. I see why Buddhists keep their time focused on the Sangha.

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>>17822046
Some, but you can also do that in your own time.

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>>17822051

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>>17822037

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>>17822062
>Dragon Magazine
Neat.

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>>17822072

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>>17822079

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>>17822090

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>>17822072
The parallels have always amused me. Being the longtime acquaintance of a priestess of nofucks has made me immune to the grymoire tradition. But not immune to making deerbone windchimes out in the woods.

>>17822105
http://rodriguezmystic.blogspot.ca/2016/06/how-to-be-traditional-witch-on-internet.html

>>17822109
Pretty much, but post-ironically. I'm syncretic weeaboo dungeonsynth and she's witchhouse dreamfolk. Eventually we may be post-ironically gay enough to fuck in a graveyard.

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>>17822111
Hey, repeating digits.

>>17822020

Wow.

It's like Spare, only more developed, focused.

>>17822105

Alas, I remember that one.

>>17822120

Rather nice.

>>17822126
I imagine occultists really get into some fuckken d&d. I also imagine that all the problems associated with a group are like /tg/ but worse.

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>>17822126
I thought I had a group photo but it's just witch rings and mushrooms.

>>17822132

I dropped RPGs, when I became more serious about studying the occult. Many of us seemed to have that sort of background, though. My teacher referred to our Enochian demonstrations as, "Enochian D&D".

>>17822141

Too bad.

Looks like lapis lazuli, on the right.

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>>17822157
And on the left is synthetic ruby forged in a blast furnace and set in gold. Alchemy or some shit. I'm too busy living to take good pictures so all I have are memes.

I guess getting to the point where role-playing is indistinguishable from the real thing is the point.

>>17822168
Shame about the stray cat. Haven't seen him in a week so he's either been taken in or picked off by a hawk. Oh well.

>>17822173
Do you live in an empty field or something?

>>17822178
Nature is all-around you, you only have to look. The dragonflies are crazy this year.

>>17822168

Sweet. I have something of a lapis fetish.

>I guess getting to the point where role-playing is indistinguishable from the real thing is the point.

In a sense, yeah. You reach a point where it becomes immersive. You become a part of it. It's captured rather well in, The Ninth Gate.

>>17822186
That's the whole point of this post-ironic path. To achieve unity you must have separation. I am not but I play the part. The problem I ran into with being a thing is that you aren't, but if you aren't, you are, or at least can be.

>>17822186
>Sweet. I have something of a lapis fetish.
That's something I picked up as a wee lad going through the correspondence tables of the Simonomicon and Marduk's symbols of power. Never grew out of it either, though I think sodalite looks slightly better, the blue is crisper and the white looks better than dull gold/copper.

>>17822249
It is the cosmos and I own it. If anyone wants it they're free to it, but until then, it's a little reminder.

>go for a haircut today
>guy in my local barbers has a ton of tattoos
>notice one is a very obvious Hand of Glory with a purple ilerminaty eye on the palm
>Another looks like a blue rose with, possibly with a chakra in the centre, couldn't get a good look
>Another on his arm saying 'Jesus'

I don't even know what to think

>>17822370
If you were in Korea still, I would tell you otherwise, but don't think too hard about it.

>>17822407
I mean more about what that guy's deal is, more than if it means anything

Though after a bit of googling, the Hand of Glory seems to be a common tattoo, he probably doesn't know the meaning of it.

Why would you tell me different in Korea?

>>17822249

My fetish developed rather late. I heard about the BMAC, which led me to Bactria. It's hard to avoid lapis, when addressing the region's history, and I started paying closer attention at my favorite rock dealer's.

It was the most valuable commodity of the ancient world, considerably more precious than gold, and from the sole source in northeast Afghanistan it was traded as far south as the Indus Valley before 6000 BCE. The lapis routes of the fourth millennium BCE followed the same track ways as the main western branches of the later Silk Routes.

>>17822415
Tattoos are a massive nono and anyone getting them is either super serious or into some extreme aesthetica.

Do you know any good sources on Jewish magic or sorcery?

>>17822446
How much research have you done already?

>>17822370
>go for a haircut today
Brofist.

>>17822446
Sepher Yetzirah - Kaplan

>>17822446

Aryeh Kaplan's "Jewish Meditation" and "Meditation and Kaballah".

Very, very good books,

Opinions on Rufus opus?

>>17822469
Shorn locks are the mark of the slave. I'd gladly let you be my slave with eyes like those though.

>>17822471
>>17822469
Thanks, but I meant more like folk magic

>>17822497
That IS folk magic.

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Well, that's what the 14th Dalai Lama has to say on the issue. Imagine the feeling of altruims divorced from emotional reactions, an oceanic experience. Must be really nice.

Did you guys get kicked out from /his/? Haven't been here in a while.

Is hyperventilating absolutely necessary for visualization and ritual? I can only actually see stuff in my mind like in a dream only when i get full of oxygen through a pranayama technique.

>>17822688
More or less.

>>17822695
No.

>>17822485
^^^

>>17822483
Garbage.

>>17822497
>>17822509
Sefer Raziel?

>>17822370
You like my rare Helens, nig?
I'm composing a letter to Xoanon right now.

>>17822779
>^^^
<vvv

>>17822779
Just realised I didn't read the thread before posting

Where did you find those? Particular the initiatory copy? That's one I never though we'd find.

What are you saying to Xoanon? Is it a question letter or a 'pls let me in' one?

>>17822796
Both, and neither. Telling them I got some notes and I wanna post 'em in a wiki.

Also, I'm asking about my Lover's Call attributions and my suspicions about the ZHA rite.

I'll probably just do what I want about ZHA anyway, but it never hurts.

Hidden page in one of the pages you found her shit in, with a breakdown of what's different between initiatic and public editions...
http://www.caduceusbooks.com/what-is-left/what-is-left.htm

>>17822816
Only a half a page in and already two typos. This was definitely written by the zoaic side of things.

>>17822796
Incidentally, that Yahoo Group appears to have died a death, no real activity since January, which is a shame, it was a tantalising potential info source.

>>17822816
Actually, it now strikes me that we should have been taking a look at the source code of some of those pages to see if there was anything we could find, didn't occur to me at the time.

Great find though, shame that the Outer version could have been so much better. I doubt we'll ever get our hands on an inner order copy, but we can always hope.

I'd be veeery interested to see scans with the annotations from practical usage though, there's definitely a few bits worth picking up there. Maybe I'm missing it there, but why was it being sold at all? Because Helen was leaving the Cultus?

Sounds like a plan, let's see what they come back with, if anything. Tbqhwu I doubt they get too many letters concerning the material in the books (i.e. not 'y is my shiping delayed?') so they could be keen to get in touch

>>17822847
I have no idea what Helen Oliver's deal is or why her backlog's being sold, with or without her permission.

On that note, the 1996 rite booklets are dirt cheap considering current Cultus prices, and it's good to know they were read rather than memorized, as some of them mention field wear.

>>17822861
Yeah while they could possibly have memorised them mason-style, I think DBoE mentions burning a ritual text somewhere, so presumably it was read from a script.

Kind of a shame really, I always found the sight of someone fucking around with bits of stapled paper, or losing their place in a paragraph kind of takes you out of the rite. Memorisation makes it flow more nicely, but Chumbley doesn't exactly lend himself to that.

Bear in mind the price of Andy's books only rocketed after he died, due to resellers. In 1996 literally no one except people who read The Cauldron or Starfire would have known much about CS.

There's bound to be a mention somewhere of why she left. I got the vibe with some mentions of the fact that she left that the author knew, or suspected, but wasn't saying anything. But who knows.

Anyway, given that the DBoE was designed for four people, I think it's a fair bet that the original Column had either 4 or 8 people in it, it's a weird thing to hardcode into a ritual cycle otherwise

>>17822898
Most of it is catchy as shit, but for the rest, we are dealing with someone running a private press and knowing wytchas, plenty of handwritten journals bound in just about anything.

>>17822898
I get the impression that they were galloping what took easy to mind and then were drawn into mesmerized chant for the rest.

That's what it's been like for me.

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>>17822020
>>17822025

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>>17822947
It's like you don't even artsy mystery religions.

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>>17822947

Okay, so I've been trying to into Azöetia on and off for a while now and it's proving difficult, especially without bothering with anything but Qutub.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, the idea is to unite with the ætheric I using the transmutable nature of quintessence by reifying the self into it through understanding of the aats in being aspects of azothos, the ætheric I.

You do this through a series of rituals to dream the self into unifying with æsthesis and behold what I'm going to call paraśiva, because I have no idea what chumbles is jacking off about half the time, that lies at the fiery heart of an acid trip of madness beginning with what I read as beating your dick at the nearest nexus and drinking the ichor from your broken god, dying a little death, seeing some very interesting shit and living in the moment. Then you give yourself ocd over whatever tchotchke catches your eye and work that into getting shit done. Throw in some jew-runes and more cranking it with a runic dildo and maybe some friends boning you after you've passed out from all the sex, see some more shit, maybe die, have the aetheric I draw what you saw and write about it in the most obtuse way possible, bind it in goatskin and sell it for 300 dollars on the internet. ??? Profit.

Am I close here?

>>17823071
>So, correct me if I'm wrong, the idea is to unite with the ætheric I using the transmutable nature of quintessence by reifying the self into it through understanding of the aats in being aspects of azothos, the ætheric I.
You got it.

>series of rituals
Yes

>to dream yourself into
Um, I think that's the goal, but this may just be Alogos' trip and your mileage may vary...if nothing else I've gone from a non dreamer back to significance, so there's something to the work.

>that thing
That thing is Azoth, it's what the Chaos Kiddos fuck up when they're talking about Gnosis. It's the aim of alchemy and tantra and magick, so, Goetia is the method of summoning the Goes, Azoetia is the method of summoning the Azoth.

You can achieve this by going through a series of rites on the cells, two per cell, as per the round or vesica, at your leisure. This becomes way clearer in DBoE which forces you through the whole process in under a year, given how preliminary praxes are framed.

I mean, yeah, you're close, but ain't nobody says you gotta sell a telismatic edition bound in the reified leather of the chaffed asses of sectarian disputes, a simple standing stone in the silent field may suffice.

>>17823115
I'm in no particular hurry and dboe is too action and not enough highest secret tantra for me. Plus I've always had very...symbolic dreams, doubly so since I cut out the reefer. That and outward ritual work has never spoken to me, not enough church as a kid or something.

Now that I'm set on what is actually being done, it's time to finish digging in. Doing the Iconoclasm on the equinox was interesting, but work has gotten in the way of Work and my skills have lapsed.

I'm tempted to make a version in playne ænglisc with all the spooky removed and selling it to the vaguely spiritual.

>>17823215
>plain English DBoE
>no spooky

Hope you have 2 A4 sheets of paper handy

>>17823233
I went paperless years ago. The wisdom of ages rests in the æther where it belongs.

>>17823250
The Cloud is just someone else's computer though :^)

But yeah, the DB could be greatly simplified and de-chumblied, but the more you read it, the more you realise it's mind-bendingly obscure to keep out people who aren't capable of absorbing the material, at least partly.
It'd be great to have a minimalist working model of it all the same though

>>17823215
>I'm tempted to make a version in playne ænglisc with all the spooky removed and selling it to the vaguely spiritual.

I want in on that.

>>17823266
That's kinda why I'm waiting for K's summary of it, so I can go all HypNOX on it.

>>17823266
>>17823320
For the record my notes are currently through the preliminary stages of KULA because the sexual protocol is incredibly vague in terms of which orations you're running evokation through.

>>17823266
The actual formulas are killing me with obscure references and bad poetry. It's only reading other chapters that I can begin to make out exactly what he's trying to say. Our aestheses don't align. Half the time I'm not sure if he's talking about the crossroads or the crossroads, I only have so much blood and astronomy is at the bottom of my stack of fucks. At least my prostate is healthy.

But seriously.
http://s1.webmshare.com/AavMA.webm

>>17823362
You know, for once, the original is actually more accurate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHd3xfDzTg8

>>17822186
>I guess getting to the point where role-playing is indistinguishable from the real thing is the point.

>In a sense, yeah. You reach a point where it becomes immersive. You become a part of it.

I can attest to this as well, I feel like sometimes in these more dreamlike states a detachment from the body happens naturally. Don't stay too long there though, come back and ground yourself every once in a while to make sure you mind/body/spirit complex (or whatever system you use) stays in balance.

>>17823320
It's been slow going. There are hypnotic states and the usual linking of qualities to fetishes and godforms. You have sentience and existence which are the crossroads of 3 and 4 and it's all linked to an aetheric I that you link to you. The idea is to unify the two. Or something like that. Somewhere in here you do some self hypnosis and dream. It's one big game of Everything is Shiva with kabbalah thrown in for fun.

The problem is I'm only halfway through the book and can't always follow what he's getting at to even attempt some of it because I spent the last 10 years being atheist as all fuck and don't think like le spookie essex cunnyng mayne.

>>17823560
Pretty sure I can convert that to regular hypnotic scripts, once it's in common English.

>>17822186

It's these fucking blinding white lights they keep putting on us...

Schools... Hospitals... Stores...

...killin my VIBE maaAaaAaaan...

>>17823565
It's going to take some time. I'm sure I already know what he's talking about but translating it from this into how I know it is hell.

>>17822511

Not as nice as detaching from robotic individuals phony problems.

It's all a stage... a Jew scam...

...go be a hero for them...

...all the while forgetting you yourself exist and are in pain...

...solve that first, maybe?

Not sure if this is the right thread to ask but I'll give it a shot, don't see a better thread around.

I have felt the urge to read channeled messages since something like 5 months ago, just about when I mysteriously felt like googling news about millenials daily and about a month after I felt that something changed... as if the atmosphere or something had improved, but I don't mean the air or anything like that.

Don't know why I started, but I find some of those messages interesting. Well I can't think of what to ask, I suppose I could wonder if you guys have anything to say bout any of that?

>>17822779
>Sefer Raziel?
Closer to what i'm looking for, thanks. I suppose it's possible that what i'm looking for doesn't exist, but my intuition is that there must have been a class of practicing magician among the poor and illiterate jews who wouldn't understand or use even the kind of literate dense practical kabbalah. Failing info on that sort of thing, is there an english translation of Sepher ha-Mashiv?

>>17822483
Do you need to ask???

>>17818841
Much more close to the Malkuth-Neophyte Grade and it´s Path of Service in particular, and to all AA in general though

Any good material on Western mystic practices?

It's pretty easy to find instruction on Eastern meditative techniques - Yogic, Taoist, Buddhist, and so on- but when trying to find stuff about Western practices it's predominately Abrahamic and there's a lot of 'dude let god penetrate your heart lmao' type of stuff. Very pragmatic material seems to be a bit lacking.

>>17825122
Terminology will be just indifferent or a matter of convenience as you advance, if you want pragmatism.. Same with technique, just find that which appeals more to you to start. If you´re so special that you don´t like any, just stare at a blank wall or whatever.. You have checked Crowley´s syncretic approach to Yoga?? You´ll find it better to start than traditional Yoga, I think

>>17823515
>I can attest to this as well, I feel like sometimes in these more dreamlike states a detachment from the body happens naturally.

I was speaking about waking life, actually.

>>17824984
>and to all AA in general though

In the sense that only those who have crossed the Abyss are members of the real AA, yes.

>>17825372
>crossed the Abyss
doing imaginary things to be a part of imaginary orders of people: The post

>>17825372
Well a Bodhisattva implies more an aspirant to the Great Work, AA, than someone who has attained etc. Also, the link concept in AA, and it´s Grade Oaths, are of that very nature, "to deny myself utterly on their behalf"..

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I have a question regarding crossroads.
I plan on contacting a Lord of the crossroads as a gateway into the spirit world.
Now this may sound silly, but what sort of crossroad are we talking about?
Is it a fork kinda crossroad (as in pic) or are we talking about a 4-way crossroad?
Or does in not matter at all?

>>17825404

I almost wish this were true.

>>17825473

This seems a stretch, to be honest, and ignores the parallels between the Oath of the Abyss and that of the bodhisattva.

>>17825506
>are we talking about a 4-way crossroad?

Yes.

>>17825525
Thank you!

>>17825506
>>17825525
>We raise this Tree at the Circle's Heart
>Where four ways meet and four ways part
>To mark the way for living and dead
>Ascending, descending, this path we tread.
>We raise thee as the Dragon's spine
>To bind our blood in branch & twine
>We erect the phallus of the earth
>The Cross of Death and the Rope of Birth
>We rend the Earth with this forked stave
>To mark the gate of Star and Grave

>We invert this Tree at the Circle's Heart
>Where four ways meet and four ways part
>O thou spear of our great ordeal
>Thy runes are etched on heaven's wheel
>To smite, to hele, to halllow, by gibbet, by gallow
>By Thy light to darken, & thy darkness shine
>By charm, & glamour, & sigil, & sign

>We burn this Tree at the Circle's Heart
>Where four ways meet and four ways part
>We call the dead forth from the shadows of gloom
>And the living forth from the all bearing womb
>Thy root, Thy bough; our blood, our bone:
>With the last of our flesh, Thy seed is sown
>We climb this ladder twixt depth & height
>A twilight bridge 'tween day & the night

>All Hail to Thee, O' Thou Column of Fire. Our Magick doth arise within your pyre!

>>17825525
Well I can see why those parallels with the Oath of the Abyss, that of the karma exemption etc, but that´s more of a particularity of the Bodhisattva at a certain point, and the resemblances I mentioned are basically structural to the system.. and somewhat obvious, but it´s ok.

Beginning to wonder if Helen Oliver = Helen Oliver Adelson

What little is online of HOA's art seems fairly similar to our Helen's stuff, and she's the right age to have been knocking around with CS back in the day, but there's literally no mention of her in connection with CS anywhere, which I find weird.

Video of her: https://vimeo.com/122447184

Kind of hope she isn't HOA because she seems absolutely batshit

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>>17825663
Forgot rare Helen

serious question. How to use magick to beat poker?

>>17825663
>Helen Oliver Adelson
Yup, that's her.

>she seems absolutely batshit
You did notice the double-full glass of red wine in the old bat's right hand, right?

>>17825674
Art of memory, training on statistics, and hypnotic induction (provided you're playing friends rather than a casino, in which case Art of Memory's about as useless as a jetpack for a sparrow).

Hit up Surgo for more details when he's about.

>>17825683
i've read a book on poker by doyle brunson recently. To my suprise theres was whole chapter there on ESP.

what makes you think its useless? i thought magick dabbles in ESP

>>17825676
>Helen Oliver Adelson

You sure?

Painting IS reminiscent of her, and I can't really imagine there being two artists painting similar enough stuff with almost the same name, at the same age, so it's a reasonable assumption either way I guess.

>You did notice the double-full glass of red wine in the old bat's right hand, right?

I kind of assumed that came as standard with her
Raises an interesting question though: Uncle Andy, Mike Howard, Peter H-G, Carolyn H-G (?) were presumably all in England, but Schulke, HOA and possibly whoever Elizabeth Spedding is (head of the Xoanon board) were all in the Great Burger. (Not sure where Rob Fitzgerald is from)

How the fuck did they get anything done? Especially before the internet got going properly.

Two quadrigans at either side of the Atlantic, maybe?

>>17825701
>Two quadrigans at either side of the Atlantic, maybe?
Possibly.
Remember, Crowley ran the OTO and A.'.A.'. through international post, and McKenna was online back in the early 90's, so it's not out of the question that they fired emails back and forth, hell I imagine it was more or less required to develop those ritual scripts.

>>17825717
>>17825701
Actually this Edgar Oliver poem may explain a bit about why Helen left:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=ciPpvZdjEL4

>>17825717
Fair enough, I guess. DBoE seems to have been developed during the 90s anyway, so email would have been a possibility

More Helen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqCx95pA9lo

>>17825724
Think Ed is her brother, though I remember reading she had a CS husband or something, though I could be wrong.

>da muun lafs de drowning man
>da muun lafs de night

Your powers of interpretation are greater than mine m8

>>17825731
>Your powers of interpretation are greater than mine m8
British lilt aside, dude's talking about how men become obsessed with the moon (Black Oracle Rite) and beg to be saved but are drowned in the ocean of mind.

I would, though, like to hear Helen's reason for leaving the CS even unto the point of withdrawing artwork intended for publication.

Given how quiet the matter is I'd imagine it's a point of faith rather than abuse or administrative incompetence.

>>17825731
Lovely Lady, please where I can see more of her art work?? Google searchs have been infructuous.

>>17825766
>>17822015
>>17822020
>>17822025
>>17822028
>>17822036
>>17822037
>>17822044
>>17822051
>>17822061
>>17822072
>>17822079
>>17822090
>>17822098

>>17825769
Thanks, missed these. There´s no web nor nothing online with her work?? Apart from that other link you posted with some of her drawings.

>>17825838
Not that I'm aware of, her art appears to pop up through various traditional witchcraft and Cultus Sabbati blogs.

Caduceus Books used to run a centralized art page but most of the images from it were taken down, what's left are "hidden" pages and images taken from Caduceus' ebay sales.

>>17822952
Looks like lilis zhariel has some major pussy stank

>>17825946
?

>>17825595

St Andrew?

>>17825639
>and somewhat obvious, but it´s ok.

To you, yes. Not everyone lives wholly in your world.

>>17825674

A good poker player can read others, while concealing himself. That's your goal. Forms of meditation developing strong mental discipline are going to help with concealment.

>>17826024
>A good poker player can read others, while concealing himself.
Or just play the numbers and fold when in doubt.

>>17826024
>St Andrew
Yup, Chant of the Ash to be recited between the opening oracle and the start of the alchemical exorcism.

One of Uncle Andy's big problems is that he switches freely between metered verse and bare oration; in my working grimoire I rewrite some of the bare orations so at least there's a chant-like quality I can latch onto.

That version of the Chant of the Ash is almost unmodified, think I just shortened it a touch.

>>17826024
Don´t be upset.. that of the Bodhisattva is that kind of things whose aspects can be placed in different ways in the system, I just point at the most immediates IMO.. Anyway I´m not the only one that say it, in Eshelman´s "M&M system", Adeptus Exemptus chapter, you can check something about it

>>17826043

It's pretty good. I didn't cringe once, so rare with so many occultists.

>>17826160
>Don´t be upset.

Doesn't your arm get tired?

>>17826168
Interestingly, I always remember this Crowley passage in Confessions in relation with that of the Bodhisattva/AA thing, as some sort of contrast or opposite of it, like that of "change is stability" etc in some way:

"At least one claim may be made; nothing has been invented, nothing suppressed, nothing altered and nothing ‘yellowed up’. I believe that truth is not only stranger than fiction, but more interesting. And I have no motive for deception, because I don't give a damn for the whole human race—‘you’re nothing but a pack of cards."

Don´t hesitate in ask me anything if you need to know more ok.

>>17826221

I wish I enjoyed your stamina.

>>17826221
Ever read AHA?
Touches on Ananda, obviously slightly more Saivist than Buddhist.

>>17825473
But Aspiration to the Great Work IS Attainment. Most people have zero clue what the trajectory of their Work is. Identifying that trajectory is inherently part of the Attainment of Adepthood.

In any case I feel like Boddhichitta's more important to the A.'.A.'. system given the sorts of comments you see in Hevajra Tantra contrasted against high degree OTO papers which make up the low-intermediate materials of A.'.A.'.

>>17826371
>But Aspiration to the Great Work IS Attainment. Most people have zero clue what the trajectory of their Work is. Identifying that trajectory is inherently part of the Attainment of Adepthood.

And surely bodhisattva lies beyond 5=6.

Gati Gati Para Gati Para Sam Gati Bodhi Swa Ha

>>17824984
>Malkuth-Neophyte Grade and it´s Path of Service
There's very little in One Star about service unto the Order.

You get a mention in the Ordo SS:
>3. The Order of the S. S. is composed of those who have crossed the Abyss; the implications of this expression may be studied in Liber 418, the 14th, 13th, 12th, 11th, 10th, and 9th Aethyrs in particular.

>All members of the Order are in full possession of the Formulae of Attainment, both mystical or inwardly-directed and Magical or outwardly-directed. They have full experience of attainment in both these paths.

>They are all, however, bound by the original and fundamental Oath of the Order, to devote their energy to assisting the Progress of their Inferiors in the Order. Those who accept the rewards of their emancipation for themselves are no longer within the Order.

Which dovetails nicely with Satyr's comment here: >>17825372

And then the actual Grade in which devoted service is actually tested is Philosophus:
>Philosophus. —Is expected to complete his moral training. He is tested in Devotion to the Order.

This is also implied in the Oath/Task in which devotion is brought under control through the guidance of your DL.

In any case Service in the Ordo GD, as per tasks and oaths, appears entirely related to lineal subordinates rather than "the good of all sentient beings", though that last point could easily be quibbled about ad-infinitum (w/r/t the purpose of the Order; in that case, all grade members have some quality of Bodhisattvahood at a certain level).

>>17826418
>And surely bodhisattva lies beyond 5=6.
Yes, to stabilize the attainments of Adepthood, hence why they don't cast you into the Abyss as soon as you've got K&C.

I think part of the problem is linguistic in nature, being that there's an implication that the Magister "goes" somewhere.

The Abyss is very near; you can access it without motion or movement, temporal or physical.

You're not "staying behind" because you has the option to migrate into a Pure Land, you're "staying behind" because it's your goddamn moral obligation to become the Pylon of your current.

>>17826371
>>17826438
I don´t exclude all those definitions but things have blurred etc, I just focused on the generalities, that is, as an aspirant to the Great Work, I think part of the Bodhisattva starts in Neophyte and surely Path of Service is representative of that. Also, the very definition of the pursue of the Great Work implies to do it for all humanity. That starts at the beginning, and also that´s why it´s said that whom enters Neophyte must inevitably end in City of Pyramids or in the Abyss. That´s also the same karma which has to create the momentum to cross the Abyss.

>>17825595
Those are only the outer crossroads, the inner, as you know, is one of liminality.

>>17826941
you guys realize this are all memes?
Like jesus saying the kingdom of heaven is coming and christians thinking that heaven is an actual place they go to after they die. if you refuse the latter why do you go and accept the former, because they are equally intangible concepts, only maps to fool you into thinking you know the way

>>17827032
No shit.
You think I perform that at rite at the intersection of a paved road?

>I think part of the Bodhisattva starts in Neophyte
How? You're not delaying a thing, you're actively working to listen for the brushing of the Angel's wings and the press of It's lips.

In fact, I'd cite the last two revelations of officers in ThROA as support this thesis, in which you're instructed not to reify so subtle a concept into your aspiration protocols; the means and end phenomenon are separate.

>whom enters Neophyte must inevitably end in City of Pyramids or in the Abyss.
You're thinking of Zelator:
>Yet let him remember that being entered thus far upon the Path, he cannot excape it, and return to the world, but must ultimate either in the City of the Pyramids or the lonely towers of the Abyss

Also, ain't nobody said the quickening will be fulfilled in this lifetime.

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>>17827040
>you guys realize this are all memes?
>memes
Cancer.

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>>17827075

>>17827075
>>17827076
You dont think every part of the Crowley mythus is a meme your perpetuating. Meanwhile he's skelleton is laughing it's dead ass off as you live his life instead of living your own. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law...MY LAW...you suckers..."
such irony

>>17827158
>You dont think every part of the Crowley mythus is a meme your perpetuating.
I don't?

And here I thought these threads were Promulgation of the Law.

Moreover, my life has little semblance of Crowley's - I'm not an opioid user, was born in a low income bracket, had little childhood exposure to Christianity, went for different degrees in an entirely different nation, etc., etc., etc.

>>17827170
That's all besides the point. You strive to be him in the same sense christians strive to be christ. And that doesn't mean they go into carpentry either.

>>17827183
>You strive to be him in the same sense christians strive to be christ.
Can you give me an indication of this?

Feel like I've spent way more time striving to be me than him...never even knew the man given he died like forty years before I was born.

You'd think if I were trying to be him there'd be more buttsex and mountain climbing and world travel and publication in my life rather than woods and museums and policy lectures.

>>17827057
Fuck it´s Zelator yes. Well I have made my point, problem is the usual when placing these kinds of concepts-Oaths-whatever in the Tree, that they don´t fit perfectly as pieces in holes, and can be viewed or separated in different aspects. I´m off for now, great discussion..

>>17827209
If you're interested in the 'why' of it, as One Star notes, Neophyte being in Maklut is still not quite vertical on the Tree; it hangs as a pendant supported by the links of higher spiritual substrate.

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>>17827209
>Zelator
>tfw my T&O are still being processed ;_:

>>17827198
>Can you give me an indication of this?
you use his words, that's as clear a indication as you'll get

>>17827243
I also use words used by Churchill, Levinas, Sara Palin, John Dee, and anybody else whose ever let the English language roll off their tongue.

That mean I'm trying to be them too?

>>17827217
I´ll revise that thanks, I tend to think that because the link forged with the Angel, Neophyte is already in..

>>17827267
You know exactly what I mean, otherwise you wouldn't even try to debate this. Do what you want man, isn't that what your master told you anyway.

i'm looking for something on theurgy. is the book theurgy and the soul in your library? or the book living theurgy? or anything by uzdavinys? or sacred science: the king of pharaonic theocracy? (is that any good?) like, i have a huge barrier to overcome in regards to practice. i want a system that is traditional and i unserstand. unfortunately, this has been a deeper rabbit hole than i suspected. unfortunately, i am mostly monolingual aside from some knowedge of ancient greek and latin (briefly considered a classics major). thus i have little desire to work with hebrew and sanskrit materials. it feels weird to be an ex-discordian/chaote/hippie who is now obsessed into neoplatonism and hermeticism. i suppose i should re-read liber null & psychonaut since now that i think about it it does recommend certain no-nonsense practices for achieving communion with the angel iirc. thelema never really struck my fancy too much but i do enjoy the notion of the hga. i wonder if that was what pkd called valis...

anyway, that's cool about azoetia and the azoth. been reading levi's transcendental magic recently and that was the first time i heard the term irl.

>>17827299
AC's my master now?
Care to tell me how I can get in actual contact with the guy, y'know, to get my commands or whatever?

>>17827301
I've got some Iamblichus but I think most of the analysis I have is from Brill rather than other venues.

>Uzdavinys
Probably not.

>>17827315
u don't like uzdavinys?

>>17827515
I do, and I think I may have ONE book of his, but I can't cover every author on every topic with 50gb.

>>17827315
>to get my commands or whatever?
Just read his books F A M

>>17827539
But I do and disagree with Crowley as much as I disagree with Taylor, Turner, Bataille, Molinos and Tenzin Gyatso.

>>17827526
understood, i will check for the imablichus and the brill when i get home to my desktop. is it in a certain folder? >boy i'm gonna look stupid when you say "there's a neoplatonism folder"

>>17827057
>You think I perform that at rite at the intersection of a paved road?
You have a skull cup and a magical piss bottle so it wouldn't surprise me. If you have an old road, going where three meet is instant liminality.

>>17827546
okay man I'm just relating a bit of my personal experience, crowley's magick stuff doesnt work for me, if it's your path it's your path I was just trying to make you realize that it is a path not "the" path.

>>17825372
>I was speaking about waking life, actually.

Me too.

>>17825674
To beat the actual game of poker entirely, show everyone your own cards through impressions/<screen sharing>. Then you've beaten the point of the game. If you want to beat other people at poker, do what the others have said.

>>17827552
>>boy i'm gonna look stupid when you say "there's a neoplatonism folder"
There's a Neoplatonism folder.

>>17827564
The amount of gross shit in my Water Vessel is, most likely, a drop at best given how hard I cut the fluids so it's not a bacterial hellstew when I open it up.

>>17827576
I never ever have implied in my, what, four/five years tripfagging that Thelema's the ONLY path. In fact I rail against folks saying any given path is the ONLY path.

Hell, I'm working Dragon Book of Essex right now, which most occultists haven't even heard of.

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I would like to join your sekrit society plz. I've read lotsa weird stuff & I've mastered both destruction & restorative spells.

When do I begin?

>>17827614
Except you've shitposted these threads since their inception all these years ago and routinely tell people that you're above being addressed by all of us feeble plebs, so you can take your inquiry and fuck right off.

>>17827614
that mitchell and webb look is hilarious, if you wanna join our super sekrit society you must simply give the invisible sign and the order will come to you

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>>17827617
>Except you've shitposted these threads since their inception all these years ago and routinely tell people that you're above being addressed by all of us feeble plebs, so you can take your inquiry and fuck right off.


Fucking Thad McKraken over here. ..

Anyway, it's been years since I used that particular troll. Let it go, man. Sheesh.

Just think of me as the Yeats to your Crowley & thank god I only drop in on /x/ every few months. You & I both know I could obliterate you & your, um, teachings - should I take the notion.

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Fuck it, I'm just ripping the shit I can actually understand and going from there. It's just too aesthetic for me.

>>17827645
IJS, if you wanna participate, act like it.
Here's the library link since my retarded ass didn't put it in the OP:
https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ

>>17827666
>666
It's hand yoga. Instead of holding the whole body in posture, you hold the hand in posture.

The shit part is that all of Chumbley's ritual gestures are still held in secrecy by the CS.

Also, yet again, Dragon Book clears that up; the whole idea of "void seed" is used in the KU rite and preliminaries to empower various points on the body using sexual fluids.

>>17827685
It's hand voudou. Loa ridin'. Also some very basic self hypnosis.

bumping for butts

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>>17828026
No butts here, mate.

>>17828043
Yolandi?

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>>17828043
Why the fuck are you posting pictures of Yolandi Visser, you absolute retard?

Does anyone know how to summon Rosier?

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>>17828089
>>17828096
Because the thirst is real?

>>17828162
Not seeing anything in the usual sources but it shouldn't be bard to adapt Lemegeton or Heptameron or even Grimorium Verum to your aims.

Literally all you're missing at that point is a sigil, and to insert the name of the demon into the proper orations.

>>17818230
GazettE?

>>17818230
what happened to archieve?

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>>17828238

Dankie Here vir dog dick limp lip.

>>17828238

...lets just say my Mel Gibson's Safari bidafrikaan hat is zebra colored... :/

>>17818230
Yo, you got any sex magick material?

>>17829282
Blood sugar baby…?

>>17826474
>I think part of the problem is linguistic in nature, being that there's an implication that the Magister "goes" somewhere.

Exactly so.

>You're not "staying behind" because you has the option to migrate into a Pure Land, you're "staying behind" because it's your goddamn moral obligation to become the Pylon of your current.

Unfortunately.

>>17826941
>That starts at the beginning, and also that´s why it´s said that whom enters Neophyte must inevitably end in City of Pyramids or in the Abyss.

Simply untrue on the face of it.

You're trivializing the role of the bodhisattva, among other things.

>>17827057
>Also, ain't nobody said the quickening will be fulfilled in this lifetime.

Indeed.

>>17827158
>...YOU'RE...

>>17827577
>Me too.

Then, sorry, I don't follow.

>>17829040

See >>17827674.

>>17829282

Should be plenty in the archive.

>>17829585
Who has the best banishing ritual?

>>17829632

I prefer Star Ruby to the standard Golden-Dawn Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram and Star Sapphire to the LRH.

Of course, those are just the most basic banishing rituals.

>>17829648
I've been using the tried and true mudras of dispelling and the most ancient mantra of Jesus fucking Christ fuck off motherfuckers.

>>17829648
>I prefer Star Ruby

I remember you saying the reverse about a year ago. Did something change?

>>17829902

Nothing has changed. I wouldn't recommend SR to someone who hadn't practiced the LRP for a while.

Astrally, I revert to LRP.

I need to bind/seal someone to keep him from hurting himself and others. He's reckless, but potent. What does /omg/ recommend I use?

>>17830133
>hurting himself and others
There is an order of sages that specialize in this. Pursuant to the king's rule, they are charged with the healing and protection of one so afflicted by spirits for his greater good for a minimum of 48 hours, often up to two weeks.

Take your skrystone and charge it, open it to the æther, and reading the gematria from the goetic yellow book, contact them. They are the A.'.P.'.A.'. If you are unable to perform such a ritual yourself, contact your local constabulary and they will put this individual into their charge and admit them within the walls of the holy order.

>>17830257
Literally what?

>>17830133
Invultation works.
Go to your local butcher and buy a cow's tongue, or better yet, cut one out of the mouth of a stray dog.

Burn a sigilization of the name and your intent into the surface of the tongue, drive a rail spike through it, and leave it to rot.

>>17830642
>Literally what?
He's referring to psychology/ psychiatry.

>>17830642
Get him committed. If it's a real problem, it will sort itself out, and if not, it comes back on you thrice.

>>17830650
Missed the APA thing.
My undergrad major AAA formatting so I rarely if ever encounter the APA abbreviation.

>>17830651
That's a thing too, IJS, invultation is good for keeping folks from running their giant fucking mouths.

If he's a physical threat to self/others contact the police and/or someone capable of filing an invol.

If he's just a fuckhead, nail a tongue into the dirt.

>>17830713
It works on a lot of levels. Some people get a night in jail to reflect, others get invol. If you're in the wrong, it comes back on you thrice.

Then you have that mystics and madmen run in the same circles, especially at the age where mental disorders like to manifest.

In normal cases involving fuckheads, all it takes is barely a word in the right direction and someone and their friends will set them straight. Freaky shit is for boys who don't know how to use their words, a much more subtle skill to craft.

>>17830747
I get the impression that if he's asking the occult thread on a Mongolian Yak Husbandry vBulletin, then words have failed at this point. I dunno, though, not much detail in the post.

Also, some people simply cannot be reasoned with or spoken with. They are violent, manipulative, or sociopathic, and tend to thrive on active derailment of good-faith conversations.

I mean, if vengeance is needed THAT BADLY you could always plant an ounce in someone's car and phone in an erratic driving complaint.

There's always more than one way to approach a problem, and I assume, probably stupidly, that if people are asking about rites it's a last ditch effort.

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>>17830764
I just reserve magic for when tried and true sciences like gossip, social engineering and matters of law fail or aren't applicable. Letting someone's mom know what's up, with or without pretense, directly or not, out of genuine concern goes a long way. Then magic, then good old fashioned pyromancy.

Out of the Black Moon, into the Fire,
an act of the Flesh, the living Desire.

>>17830806
>Letting someone's mom know what's up, with or without pretense
Yeah, because that TOTALLY works on 45 year old men who has a rap sheet longer than my arm.

Moreover, if mommy does still have influence on a given problem individual, I'd image she's the sort of coddler who things her special little snowflake din du nuffins wrong ever EVER, which likely explains the crapsack behavior in the first place.

Seen it more times than I'd like to, on both accounts.

>>17830826
Their boss, their dealer, their parole officer, their landlord. Or you know, get friends that don't put up with shitheads. But situations are rarely that simple.

We really don't have much to go on. I've always been partial to black salt in any case. Little bit in the shoes and hope they start walking instead of just buying new shoes. 5 times.

Bump?

>>17831235
Let's talk about money.

Why do authors and publishers have to justify the price of the works they offer by putting it in expensive material and limiting editions?

I mean, take literally the Azoetia or the DBoE, those books are written like crap. Yes, the content is pretty gucci, but really, they could do with a lot of editing, and then sell them simple hardback for twice the price. In a non-limited edition.

Like, come the fuck on.

>>17831271
>Why do authors and publishers have to justify the price of the works they offer by putting it in expensive material and limiting editions?
In my experience they justify nothing. Beyond that it's a matter of work going into the binding. Goat leather and hand rolled endpages are time consuming and expensive processes to undertake.

In the specific case of Xoanon, the principle author of all material is dead; prices shot like a rocket after Chumbley's death and Xoanon figured that if the materials are going for five to ten times asking price they could raise the asking price period.

Moreover, the priciest materials tend to be signed, have charged talismans, extra materials or illustrations, etc.

Not defending the practice by any means; there's a reason why I pirate these materials, but it's just the way those cats operate.

FWIW, my contacts tell me that multiple major occult publishers are having serious issues moving product due to the proliferation of telismatic editions and suchlike.

>>17831289
Yeah, I don't get it. What matter is the content, not the form.
They'd make more money by investing in larger quantities of good content, rather than mediocre content and excellent form.

At least that's my view on this.

>>17831300
>mediocre content
FWIW I have relatively little problem with the editing content in DBoE; about the worst I could say is that sometimes special materials aren't listed at the front end of the rite where it lists material requirements. Otherwise I've been relatively happy with working through DB's content.

Azoetia could use some contextualizing info.

Lux Haeresis and Viridarium Umbris are pretty well edited, I used to gripe about Schulke's editing skills but the more I mull on it the more I think the problem's in Chumbley's diaries and manuscripts rather than in the Xoanon editing team.

>>17831308
(much more inclined to bitch about mediocre content from folks like Current 218, Koetting, etc., etc., etc.)

>>17831313
That doesn't even qualify as mediocre, famalam.

>>17831308
Azoetia is a mess. It's one thing to assume knowledge and another entirely to actually explain a concept in a series of random sections across 22 chapters. Especially when this nigga is ripping straight from Spare.
>Is it by symbolizing that we become the symbolized?
Either tell me what your spooky words mean to you or don't bother telling me anything at all.

>>17831401
Half the problem is that the vast majority of the text is a young occultist's dream within a dream; a young man/old boy who is coming to grips with the fever phantoms of Spare, Crowley, and Cochraine.

It's quite clear that in the interval between Azoetia and DBoE, he VERY srsly leveled up his actual skills and knowledge base.

If Azoetia's the fever dream of a Neophyte then DBoE's the waking of an Adept.

>>17831475
Both are awful reads.

>>17831489
I'm not sure why but, Grimorium Synmosa Draco'taus is immediate intelligible and accessible to me in contrast to Azoetia which I still can hardly wrap my head around.

I'm not sure what this says about me.

>>17831498
It says more about that fucker Chumbley than anything else.

>>17831489
I'm partial to edgy fireside witch chants.
The rest takes me back to times better left forgotten.

>>17831498
It says you don't draw. They Mystery is only held in the hand of an artist. I'm a crap artist, so it doesn't play well. Not to mention it's a direct rip of spare, so the aats pertain more to him than you.

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Is nephilim print legit? Has anyone read anything by them? I'm interested in their title, Holy Guardian Angel and Gateways of Stone and Circle.

>>17830257
kek

>>17830642
I'll look into this, thanks.

>>17830764
To clarify, he's intent on trying goetia for shits and giggles but has no intention of taking any precautions, doing any prep, or studying. His version of magic involves getting high and seeing how much he can fuck shit up. The problem is that he's usually successful.

And, no, he cannot be reasoned with; he's a moronic psychopath and YOLOfag.

>>17832935
Fuck him in the ass, sow the seeds of doubt up in his root chakra and break his game and his will. You can do it astrally if need be. Sometimes it takes a couple sessions.

>>17832935

Well, magic isn't real, so he'll be fine.

Bumparoo.

>>17833308
Then why do you hang out here so much?

>>17818230
Up until several years ago I used to be very much into divination and practiced my own style of it. Basically I would try to slowly get into a trance until I would feel a second presence in my mind, then I would ask it to tell me a story. I would then pick up several tarot cards and a fairy tale would form in my head based on the pictured cards I drew, usually with a cliched moralizing message at the end. I succesfully predicted some major events in my family's life like that. It really tired me out though and eventually I stopped.

Any idea what I was doing, and where I could find more info on that particular aspect of occultism if that is what it was?

>>17833532

http://hermetic.com/crowley/book-of-thoth/behaviour.html

You may find the rest of the book instructive, as well.

>>17833541
I'm not sure whether what I did was actual tarot rather than me just using those cards for my own purposes. I did not care for their actual meaning or anything, just the pictures on them which would come together to form a story in my mind.

Like I could pull the Moon, the Mice and the Tower and I would get a story about a family of mice who were all entranced by the moon, so they decided to build a tower to reach it and never noticed how their numbers dwindled until the last mouse - still failing to reach that moon - looked back from on top of that tower and saw the shredded pieces of his family, and how they had been used to fill in the spaces between the bricks.

That's the kind of story I vaguely remember getting, and I don't think it has anything to do with their actual meaning in tarot.

That was another reason I stopped... I mostly got depressing stories which really tired me out.

>>17833566
There is no actual meaning, only ascriptions by individuals, mostly from kabbalah because that was the hot thing to bend your mind around at the time.

>>17833566

Did you read his method?

>>17833581
>goddamn it look at me!!!!!

>>17833595
That isn't a refutation. If you want to carry someone else's spooks around, go ahead.

>>17833608
The tarot was initially developed as a game, pure and simple via Italian tarocchini and French tarot, it took about 2-300 years for Kabbalah to be integrated into the symbolism, as the when the games first appeared study of Kabbalah was confined almost exclusively to the Platonic Academy of Florence.

>>17833595
Yes, but whenever I did that "tarot" it was always with that presence in my head telling me a story which made me think I was messing with something I shouldn't be. Is that really regular with tarot? Was I spooked for no reason?

>>17833617
My point exactly. You get what YOU put into it. Anon is thinking there's an actual meaning and not what comes from your relationship with yourself and the cards.

>>17832280
So, I decided to look up Nephilim Press' book on the HGA, and immediately, I see some names that make me NOT want to read it:
>David Scriven (aka Sabazius, SHK of the US OTO)
>Rufus Opus (top goddamn kek)
>Conjureman
>Jason Miller, who some dox happy troll long ago assumed was me

Eyuh, no, I'll stick with AC/Chumbley's comments.

What's the easiest (doesn't have to be safe) form of magick I can try to see how real all of this is?

>>17833650
When you go to sleep tonight relinquish all rights over your mortal body, repeat that over and over until you fall asleep, and accept whatever comes your way.

That could be fun.

>>17833608

It was more than sufficient.

>>17833621
>Is that really regular with tarot? Was I spooked for no reason?

Sounds like you were spooked for no reason, yes. What you described was natural talent. Learning the meanings and practice would likely develop that. Yes, it would be tiring to do a good reading.

A layout, like the Celtic cross, is just a template for forming the narrative. You were letting the narrative take form from the cards. That's actually preferable. It's possible that a simple layout may be less tiring, but still useful.

I see no problem, here. The presence is just your way of getting past yourself and exercising your intuition unhindered.

>>17833626

You're still missing the point.

>>17833630

Eeewww

>>17833650

Probably sigil magic, like the chaos folk do.

>>17830001
>Astrally, I revert to LRP.

Why's that? What makes these rituals different on the astral?

>>17834099

Good question. Not sure have a good answer.

The Star Ruby I use was recommended to "Babes of the Abyss", those who had taken the plunge, but hadn't washed up on that farther shore as a "Master of the Temple". For that and other reasons, it was appropriate for where I was at the time and where I've been since.

Most of my banishing on the astral has been before going to sleep, always ended with merging my astral body with my physical, and taking a few conscious breaths in both. In that context, suppose I liked positioning the archangels of the quarters around me.

why i cant download revolt in a modern world in evola files in mega?

How would you reccomend getting into this stuff for someone who knows nothing about occultism or magick?

>>17834137
>The Star Ruby I use was recommended to "Babes of the Abyss", those who had taken the plunge, but hadn't washed up on that farther shore as a "Master of the Temple".

Is this the Star Ruby you were using?

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib333.html#note14

There's the other one, using Therion, Nuit/Hadit instead:

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib25.html

I heard that the student begins with the one at the bottom, but I am a little skeptical of "Hadit."
I am not sure what this Hadit has to do with Heru-Behdeti (if that's the origin of the name). Perhaps it has something to do with "Abra(had)abra?"

>Most of my banishing on the astral has been before going to sleep,
>I liked positioning the archangels of the quarters around me.

So in this context you preferred the archangels over whatever is evoked in the SR. I've only worked with the archangels of the four winds, so I can't really comment further.

>>17834201
Beginner's folder.

>>17834176
I dunno, sometimes files break.
Have you tried:
>using another browser
>using the native mega extension/app thing
>dl'ing as a .zip
>waiting an hour because sometimes the server fucks off for a while and I can't even log in.

>>17834234
Pretty sure 333's for Babes of the Abyss.
Makes sense given what's evoked at the corners.

>I am a little skeptical of "Hadit."
Why?

>Heru-Behdeti (if that's the origin of the name). Perhaps it has something to do with "Abra(had)abra?
Yes, to both, it's a multivalent symbol. Remember "Hadith" is a sacred utterance in Islam. Moreover, AC's powers of translating hieroglyphics weren't the best, considering Gerald Goddamn Massey was considered a grad-a historical resource when AC was gittin' gud with Egyptian myth.

>whatever is evoked
Neoplatonic/Heremtic Archons, mate, see Chaldean Oracles of Zoroaster among other sources.

>>17833650
Sigil magic, New Avatar Power, exercises from Prometheus Rising and Quantum Psychology.

>>17834251
yep tried every one of'em. ill try tomorrow again. thanks though

>>17834251
>Why?

It's quite difficult to say without sounding silly. Let's just say that it sounds like something Crowley invented for himself. I question how much """power""" it has. Then again, I haven't looked into the SR as much as the LRP.

> Remember "Hadith" is a sacred utterance in Islam.

? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith

> Moreover, AC's powers of translating hieroglyphics weren't the best, considering Gerald Goddamn Massey was considered a grad-a historical resource when AC was gittin' gud with Egyptian myth.

This is sort of why I'm more interested in the SR found in the book of lies. I like the idea of using Eros/Psysche + Kaos/Babylon over Nuit/Hadit + Therion/Babylon.

>Neoplatonic/Heremtic Archons, mate, see Chaldean Oracles of Zoroaster among other sources.

I've read you describe the Archons earlier, but I wasn't 100% sure so I omitted it.

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>trying to read Underhill's 'translation' of the Cloud of Unknowing

Chumbley is actually an easier read

All credit to her for bringing a lot of mystical classics to a modern audience, but this is calque translation with faux thee/thou/thy at its worst

>>17834392
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith
>report", "account" or "narrative"
Moreover, the word's used in association with the Prophet (pbuh), and in this case implies Logos, as the report is to be of an 'authentic' religious transmission or explication on Islam.

> I like the idea of using Eros/Psysche + Kaos/Babylon
Me too.

>>17834396
???

>>17834396
>Cloud of Unknowing
Kabbalistic as all get-out.
Just makes me even more amused at Current 218 bleating that they're NOT like Hebrew mysticism while both attempting to reach the void of Ain; it's just that one group's actually been getting there for over a thousand years and another's reifying the subtle shells of the klipot as actual spirits.

>>17834411
It's a fantastic text, just that Underhill's rendering of it is seeming very garbled to me tonight (possibly due to me being a bit fried after work)

Thomas Keating did a great job of boiling it down to the core technique though. The Church sort of unofficially denounced his method, even though it's basically a tl;dr of the Cloud, which they accept (though, ironically, which they denounced when it was written)

>>17834424
Hey nig, whaddya think of my solution to the code in the BHA rite?
>B.'.A.'.O.'. A.'.A.'.N
>Beyond All Otherness, All Answer(s) None/Naught/Neither

>>17834411
>reach the void of Ain
here we go again

imaginary pathways to imaginary places

>>17834450
It's all unity with the Increate.

>>17834441
>Which the mirror and which the mask?

That's definitely a possible solution to it

If I know our Andrew, it'll either be:
>incredibly obscure string of non-English words
or
>Koan disguised as a brain-teaser in order to make you think about an answer, even though there probably isn't one that can be verbalised

my 2c anyway, though I think your answer captures the spirit of what he's driving at

>>17834469
It just came to me in a moment in which I simulated Aureon in my head with my scant knowledge (mirror, chain, mask), inspired by the unprompted OTO inquisitions.

If someone held both up to me in ritual and asked "which" my answer would definitely have been "neither, in liminality".

>>17834477
the mirror is a reflection which has to do with identity, the mask also has to do with identity, specifically the one you make for others to see
the chain has to do with things being connected or a from of slavery.

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>>17834480
Pet3r fuck the fuck off, holy shit.

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>>17834480

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>>17834482
You too?

>>17834406
>and in this case implies Logos, as the report is to be of an 'authentic' religious transmission or explication on Islam.

That sheds a very interesting light on the pairing of Nuit/Hadit. A very nice piece of information to take when the time comes to study the A.'.A.'. thoroughly.

One last little thing: Can a non-A.'.A.'. student use the Star Ruby and the Star Sapphire, or is initiation into the A.'.A.'. required? Can the non-student use these rituals with the same effectiveness as one in the A.'.A.'. (assuming that the non-student understands what's going on)?

Is it alright that the SR in the book of lies can be substituted right away than the one in liber XXV? Or does the student have to work their way up with the one in XXV?

>>17834521
The stuff's public so anybody can use it.
The only thing that's ""secret"" is ThROA which I maintain in the Class D articles which is the A.'.A.'. officer initiation.

Do what you like I enjoy Liber 333's version more because it's Greek-ier.