Heaven's Gate

anon these this shit creeps me out but here's a bump.

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im always interested in cult shit because my mom lived in like a town away from the jonestown

she said everyone was shocked because they pretty much kept too themselves. coincidentally she said there was also free mason house right next door? is there really free masons in guyana in the 60s? she said the kids would always joke about people taking you too the house but i digress

i don't have much to add other then most of the documentary i've watched always pushed that Do was a homosexual but some how i don't think that is true...

>>17798739
Admittedly I haven't done much research into the beliefs of Heaven's Gate, but from what I gather they were a relatively typical alternate or "new age" group which believed in a higher power that was different than the Abrahamic God. I'm sure drawing people in wasn't particularly difficult, given the times and the nature of people who desperately want to believe in some higher being/power.

The most confusing part is the logical disconnect from being a quasi-religious organization that exists for support and study to being a suicide cult. From what I saw in the videos on the website, none of the members seemed particularly depressed. In a similar vein to Jonestown, I think the family members of those who died there never mentioned that their loved ones reported feeling depressed, but they did communicate less and less with the outside world.

I guess trying to figure out the train of thought that brings a group to mass suicide is creepy yet enthralling. Maybe it's a sort of mob or herd mentality. Maybe some felt that without the group they would have nothing, so it was better to do this than to be alone. Whatever the reason, I'm sure their family misses them all dearly.

I also wonder if the Waco siege in 1993 factored into this action at all. Heaven's Gate wasn't hoarding weapons and it wasn't in trouble with the law for other reasons, but I'm sure founders and members of cults felt targeted at the time. I think the general public views cults like these with distaste, considering all the high profile deaths associated with them, which in turn can lead to the ostracization of members who probably already feel trivialized for not being able to find faith in a more traditional, established faith group.

But, that might be a little too broad. In general, cults like these can be fascinating to consider and ponder. I think it's especially intriguing as to why some members stayed behind. Why is the site still up if the comet is long gone? Is membership rising?

>>17798739
what was the incentive of the leader? simply power or knowing he wouldnt die alone?

>>17798739
Crazy ass motherfuckers who did the world a favor by killing themselves. It's hardly interesting, merely, it shows the sad truth that people will do anything out of misguided faith.

>>17798739
Xerxes?

>>17799240
I'm not sure. I guess I'm just waiting for some people who know more about what happened to post. I'm not aware of the cult being investigated by any law enforcement agencies, and they didn't seem to be doing anything illegal that would make them paranoid. It really does seem like one day the leader just got this idea. I guess their beliefs were probably in line with the actions they took, so it's just a question as to whether the comet was a coincidence or if this act was planned from the foundation for the cult.

Basically, if the comet never came, would they have just continued on until one did come? Would they have killed themselves then?

bump for interest

>>17799252
It is sad, but we have to consider that there are tons of cults and plenty of people desperate for answers. There is something very different about these cults in which mass, organized suicide occurs, however. What is it about some cults that leads to that end? Is it the type of people drawn to cults which can make them more susceptible to being manipulated into taking an action like that?

Who benefits from these acts? The founders many times die themselves, so it seems unlikely that narcissism or the desire for fame is a major factor. Is it pride, maybe? When push comes to shove, the founders can't back down and let themselves be humiliated in front of a larger audience? I think pride may have played a role in the Jonestown incident, but what about Heaven's Gate? Like I said, I don't believe they were under any sort of scrutiny, or at least not to a large degree like at Jonestown or in Waco with the Branch Davidians.

I've been trying to put myself into the shoes of a typical follower. Maybe I've been a bit of an outcast my whole life, or have been feeling like one more often. Then I catch word of a new group of people who have a new and exciting message. I go to meetings and start feeling like I'm apart of something for once. Over time we get closer as a group and I make very close friends. Then one day talk of the end starts, and before I know it I'm in a rented mansion, wearing the same clothes as everyone around me, and I'm downing a cup of applesauce laced with poison and tying a bag around my head.

In those last moments, am I faithful? Do I once question the leader? Do I wholly believe that I will be taken aboard this spaceship tailing the comet? As I lose consciousness, what else do I consider? Do I turn my head and watch the people I care about most die? It's such a weird thought process and it's chilling at the same time.

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Bonnie Lu Nettles and Marshall Herff Applewhite believed they were the two witnesses mentioned in the bible

They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a] 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

11 But after the three and a half days the breath[b] of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

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I feel part of the reason they decided to kill themselves was because they were brainwashed living together basically turning away from the world, also Bonnie Nettles had died...some of the member had castrated themselves also no, no one knew of their actions they were discreet after the recruiting process had taken place

>>17798739
I still own a house in one of the neighborhoods close to where the suicide house is in Rancho Santa Fe. I know, it's not the same neighborhood exactly so this could come across as bullshit, but I've lived there for almost 2 decades and I'll tell you, it's largely the same in the whole RSF area, and it's largely very creepy. The video taken when they were removing the bodies has the same green gates we used to have, so I assume most of RSF is under the same committees.

I barely remember the actual event because it was retold to us as just a bunch of crazies that were participating in make-believe cult activity. Probably because of this, I never looked into it. I don't know what they were after and I don't know if they're at all legitimate, but as people say, ever rumor started with some grain of truth.

Really the one observation I have is that directly after this happened, the neighborhood I lived in's HOA became cult-like in itself. For example - I know this because I was fucking told this, sadly - you can't be on the HOA if you aren't Jewish. I don't want to get into the whole DA JOOZ memes, but it's weird to me that they'd favor a religion over competence or knowing what needs fixed in the neighborhood. I tried to get on there, sent in a whole list of 15 years worth of issues, and was rejected because I wasn't the "type" they were looking for.

Everybody to this day goes to every length to pretend like it never happened. Obviously, for the sake of selling houses, I can see why anyone who oversees the residential area doesn't want people to think of that.

I'd like to know what /x/ thinks, because I assume this is very unrelated especially since I didn't live as close to the original place, but I've had 1 sighting I can't explain some time afterward.

TL;DR, blue lights on the ground midway up my hill (mind you, it's a massive hill), faded out/downwards and disappeared.

Will continue with why the area in particular is questionable.

>>17802551
Why RSF spooks me in general is that, maybe after 10 years living at the property where I saw the lights, I found out the entire resort behind it is built on a soil cap above an archaeological site.

Ended up sneaking onto the property to clean up tennis balls, and the whole fucking area in the trees just puts me to sleep. It's to a point I was worried I'd pass out on the property and wake up in handcuffs at a guard station.

Again, I don't know nearly enough about the cult to really argue what they were after, but I hate the entire Rancho Santa Fe area. It's too creepy to me.

A lot of areas are built on old Native American territories, so there's some weird shit there. I have some stories when I used to own horses in the area and spooky things that occurred (animal deaths, general fear, injuries, etc), but it starts to become really irrelevant to the thread.

Don't know what they wanted, but that whole Rancho Santa Fe area is a hotspot for strange happenings.

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cdn dot streamable dot com slash video slash mp4-mobile slash mo0x dot mp4

>>17798812
>but from what I gather they were a relatively typical alternate or "new age" group which believed in a higher power that was different than the Abrahamic God.

Incorrect. It was played down by the media at the time, but the Heaven's Gate Cult was very much a Millennialist Christian cult. The whole sci-fi angle comes from the fact that the two founders were Trekkies, but they originally became friends, and started spending time together for the purpose of doing bible study. They didn't discover that each other were also Trekkies until they'd started to get fairly close on a personal level. The group they started was meant to be a bible study and prayer group, and then they started getting weird, and adding elements of Star Trek to it. The media played up the UFO crap, because lets face it, that's a lot more interesting than a bunch of uptight, kooky Christians who think Jesus is returning soon.

You think darker than black the anime borrowed the whole "heavens gate" event from this cult's mass suicide?

In Heavens gate from the anime, a bunch of people dissappear from south america. Pretty much the same thing amirite?

>>17798739
most cults don't devolve into mass suicide but there are other problems revolving around that kind of mental control within a group.

physical and sexual abuse of children and adults is prolific. many cults are verbally, financially and spiritually abusive as well. sleep and nutritional deprivation is common to facilitate the ease of control. there is ALWAYS a limit on acceptable beliefs and behavior.

cults prey on people who need to belong. they prey on people's desire to believe there is something important to their life. this is why they're so often religion based. there are other reasons why people join cults but it's almost always pure exploitation of psychologically damaged or weak people.

>>17804155
interesting information, thank you.

>>17799240
>Lewis speculates that Applewhite settled on suicide because he had said that the group would ascend during his lifetime and thus appointing a successor was unfeasible.[122]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Applewhite#Mass_Suicide

>>17800413
Applewhite was paranoid apparently
n the wake of Nettles' death, Applewhite became increasingly paranoid, fearing a conspiracy against his group.[135] One member who joined in the mid-1980s recalled that Applewhite avoided new converts, worrying that they were infiltrators.[13
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Applewhite

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>>17804303
It seems like Applewhite and Bonnie developed some sort of superiority complex and thought they were literally saints or angels of some kind. I guess back then, especially in isolated pockets in the south, believing that kind of thing wasn't out of the question. I wonder if anyone was ever able to diagnose them with legitimate mental disorders. I think narcissists usually prey on people with low self esteem, as it's easier for the narcissist to elevate themselves above the other person, while the other person doesn't question the apparent superiority of the narcissist.

>>17804283
But is there any evidence of this happening in the case of Heaven's Gate? I can't find any sources claiming the members were treated badly or that any sort of illegal activity was happening.

Also, what do you guys make of this string of words at the bottom of the website? It's too long to copy and paste so it's in the picture. Think it means anything? I was thinking maybe it was a way to get their website to show up on search engines when those were just starting to get popular. It's kinda hidden at the bottom of the main page, just highlight down there to see it.

>>17804336
string of words just seems like a way to get search hits to their website. you know how people used to put, in a white font so it blends into the background, keywords into their CVs so they would come up in searches? i guess it's like that

Anyone still have that screen shot where someone emailed the Havens Gate web site.

Someone responded.

>>17798739
https://www.amazon.com/Darkness-Over-Tibet-Mystic-Travellers/dp/0932813143

>>17798739
I remember accessing their website right after I heard about this happening back in 94? I was still in high school. They took the site down, then someone archived it and put it back up... but it was missing a lot of info.

>>17804356
LOL that is some OLD time SEO for sure. I don't think going that overboard has worked since the days of AltaVista.

>>17804469
I was actually looking through their website on the wayback archive. It's kinda weird, the earliest snapshot is from Nov 22, 1996, then the next two snapshots on April 3, 1997 and June 18, 1997 show the page as being something else entirely. It's just a white page with some products for "Martin Industries". Then the fourth snapshot on December 12, 1997 show it as being back to the regular Heaven's Gate page. I'm assuming the FBI or some other law enforcement agency took it down during their investigation and then the guy chosen to stay behind got it back in December. It hasn't changed much since then, unfortunately.

Interestingly, the site itself acknowledges that they don't care if the comet Hale-Bopp has a follower. It seems weird to me that they'd publically announce that (albeit it's only shown on the site after March 1997, so it's not likely that any of the followers read that part). The only source on the "UFO" following Hale-Bopp was a dude who took a grainy picture and thought he saw a UFO, a claim quickly discounted by professional astronomers who pointed out it was just a star.

>>17804365
Yes, a guy by the name of "Rio DiAngelo/Richard Ford" didn't commit suicide. The wiki article doesn't say if he decided not to, or if he was chosen to stay behind but I think it's pretty much accepted he still pays for the hosting and responds to emails. I guess he's the default "successor" that Applewhite was unable to name. I wonder what he believes now. It might be interesting to get in touch with him, if anyone is still manning the email account listed on the site. I can't really figure out if they want new members, I mean there's not going to be a comet coming by any time soon so I can't imagine anyone will be entering "Heaven's Gate" in the immediate future.

>>17804365
it wasn't super interesting, they just responded "yes we do" when asked if anyone still checks this email and gave a fairly corporate response about how they're continuing the mission to the questions he asked

>>17804336
I don't get the impression that there was an ultetior motive or abuse like that happening in Heaven's Gate. I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that Applewhite was that uncommon kind of psychopath who genuinely believes all the crazy shit he says. If you watch the recruitment tape and "Do's Final Exit" you can get an picture of his spirtual and cosmological views, and it's pretty fucking strange and detailed to the point where I think he was sincere. Maybe I'm just hoping to believe people are this dedicated to their views and he wasn't just being a crybaby bitch because his girlfriend died though.

A friend of mine insists Applewhite had terminal cancer and was afraid to die alone but I've only ever heard that from him.

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The cult deserved to die for ripping off their logo from The Packers.

>>17804550
There's a decent documentary where they interview him and he says it was his decision not to. The thing is he seems to still be a true believer, and he chose to remain with Applewhite's blessing. This is the kind of thing that makes me believe he wasn't a homicial liar and really believed he had been called to leave the planet with his flock.

>>17804306
Reading more about Applewhite makes it seem like Bonnie's death really affected him deeply and shook his faith. If he really did believe they were some sort of holy messengers on Earth spreading this message, her death would've really shaken his faith. It seems like he got a lot more fatalistic after it happened as well, and it wasn't until after she was dead that he started believing the Earth would be destroyed or whatever.

But that still doesn't really explain his actions. I guess maybe he felt like he had two options at that point. Either:

1. Go full on apocalypse and ride this cult thing out to the bitter end

or

2. Give up and disband his following, claim he was wrong about everything.

I wonder if the comet did appear which he would have chosen. His followers were dwindling and only really saw a spike after the comet was discovered. I have a feeling he was probably suicidal and saw this astronomical event as his perfect way out of his life while saving face. But why order others to die as well? Or did they choose to go? From what:
>>17804614
said it would seem almost like the members had a choice if they wanted to go or not. Why would nearly all of them agree? Especially the new members who might not have even met Bonnie. Was Applewhite that compelling? Were they that desperate?

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Bump, hopefully more anons with knowledge about hg will post.

>>17801459

>I think pride may have played a role in the Jonestown incident, but what about Heaven's Gate?
>Maybe I've been a bit of an outcast my whole life, or have been feeling like one more often

I've been a pagan since I was twelve, and let me tell you that it has a lot to do with pride, but also feeling whole.

It starts with feeling as if you don't deserve what everyone else does. Everything belongs to someone else, and they don't want to share with you.

Cult leaders are often desperate for attention. The leader and his followers form a symbiosis, where the leader gets his ideas acknowledged and the followers can be told anything that makes them feel good.

When you're will the cult, you have an awesome identity which is an intregal part of a social tapestry - the leader is speaking about your Higher Self and his daily dealings with the ascended masters. The drugs allow you to see it in your head, and everything feels like childhood again. The leader even tells you that you'll get to become a mirror image of your Higher Self, and that he plans to make you king of an entire planet with a harem and everything.

The outside world becomes poison. No one even knows about your Higher Self, and you can't share your incredible world with them. When the bastards start taking your drugs and Spirit Family away, they become your mortal enemies.

But it always falls apart, and then the follower becomes a leader - to recreate those magic few months. Or they die in the street.

Suicide is the romantic way out when you know it's going to end.

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This thread from 2013 covered everything, real good solid info about Heavens Gate:
http://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/13574896/

>>17798739
Imho Aum Shinrikyo was (is?) far more interesting. I've recently finished the three-part episode on Asahara by The Last Podcast On The Left and holy shit, they were the closest we got to Japanese Scientology. Even worse, in fact. I still need to hunt down that "Destroying the World to Save It" book.

>>17808486
Interesting thread, but for the most part it seems to heavily lean towards the conspiracy side of things. We know Applewhite became increasingly paranoid about infiltrators to his group, and probably with good reason considering what happened in Waco around that time.,Still, there's really no evidence that I've seen that suggests the feds were investigating him. They didn't really have any reason besides the fact that he was a cult leader (which isn't illegal by itself). The thread shows many links to various alphabet agencies, but I'm not sure I see what the end goal was for them. Did they manipulate Applewhite into suicide in order to snuff out his cult? Maybe in a preemptive move to keep another Waco incident from happening? That's pretty sinister, especially for a relatively harmless cult.

As far as the alien connection goes, I'm still a little confused as to how aliens played any role in their beliefs. They believed their bodies to simply be vessels which housed transient souls. Their souls could be freed upon death and go somewhere else, I guess. With the comet coming and the UFO rumors starting, did Applewhite use that as a convenient excuse to initiate his final plan? When you look at the website, as early as December of 1998 they (or the last remaining cult member speaking for the group) acknowledge it doesn't actually matter if there was a UFO there or not. Was this something that all members of the "Away Team" were aware of at the moment they died? I guess we might never know that for sure.

Also, continuing on with the Star-Trek connection, were the members all aware that this terminology was used in the TV show? If they didn't then it really makes Applewhite look like a complete nutcase. He was basically designing a religion which was half Christianity and half fan fiction, and then feeding it to his followers as some sort of new idea. If that's the case he was definitely a narcissist and he was manipulating those people.

>>17804336
>recycling the planet

i'd like to know more about that one

Ralphie May said it best: "He convinced a bunch of white people to commit suicide all at once to get picked up by spaceship, that was bein' hid by a comet, to go to Heaven. Oh, that's retarded."

I remember reading a some article about the website still being alive a few years ago, and being fascinated. I Duckduckgo'ed and found these:

http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2015/04/30/the-gate-is-closed/

http://gizmodo.com/the-online-legacy-of-a-suicide-cult-and-the-webmasters-1617403237

I don't feel like rereading them now, but one thing I remembered reading that made an impression at the time was that, different from most weirdo cults, people were pretty much free to come and go as they pleased, and that there wasn't really any coercion to stay isolated in the group. If that was your thing, cool; if you wanted to go back to the real world, cool; if you want to come back from the real world and do cult stuff, cool, etc.
This is real different from most real "culty" cults. I think I remember reading that the the people who maintain the websites and all that stuff were members who were basically like: "Yeah I like group and all that, I'm pretty into it, but not really trying to do the suicide thing. You guys go ahead, we'll look after things." And the cult was like: "Yeah cool."
I found that interesting.

>>17798739

It was a meme that went around the world the magic number of times that has come back to make nu males cut their balls off

>>17808900
A lot of the time, cults claim that people can leave at any time but there are many hidden reasons why they couldn't really do that. Generally, they have silent control over their people. Don't know if it's true in this case but the fact that a bunch of people voluntarily killed themselves leads me to believe that they were brainwashed so thoroughly it's unlikely that they would leave on their own, even if it was supposedly allowed. That would mean abandoning their chance to be saved/go to heaven and that's a lot to risk even if you don't 100% believe.

>>17804566
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanpaku

>>17799240
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2EQ0FlVks4

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>>17807787
>I've been a pagan since I was twelve

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If there's Heaven's Gate, what about the Hell's Gate?

>>17809159

In Texas, no less. Way back in 2000, even. And I lived on a ranch and ate magic mushrooms, and walked naked beneath the full moon. And this all occured within eyeshot of a highschool and a suburb, and I was homeschooled by atheists. Also there was hot, gay boy-on-boy action. And that boy has matured into my adult, alchemical research partner and we have plans to get married and have children with magic/science.

>>17798812
>I think it's especially intriguing as to why some members stayed behind. Why is the site still up if the comet is long gone? Is membership rising?
I looked on google all i can really find is allegedly two people or more are still running the site selling books and supposedly you can request "materials" from them via email

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>>17809234

Nobody's mentioned the Nike connection yet? You guys are slacking.

>>17798739
Mk ultra experiments with cia beetwen the lines

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>>17808534
A detail that goes unmentioned is that Aum Shinrikyo was related to Japan's Soka Gakkai, a relatively powerful group with its own Party in the National Diet.

And Soka Gakkai is further related to what can be described as the japanese equivalent to american evangelicals - Nichiren Shōshū.

>>17808822
So, I take it you scanned the archived thread and didn't listen to the audio presented in the aforementioned.

>>17804550
I remember something from an old thread on this about the guy who took that picture. Apparently he was a conman, and a neighbor of the Heaven's Gate founders at one time.

His girlfriend, and a neighbor both came forward to say that he the one who originally put it in their heads that the may possibly be able to transcend this world into Heaven by way of Haley Comet.

That was a great thread, I may try to find it in the archives.

>>17808486
That's the thread I meant, a very interesting read, and since you posted it I know I'm stuck reading it again.

>>17810948
I didn't see any links to audio which worked, so if you could post them again I'd appreciate it.

I saw a lot of speculation about conspiracies, which may or may not be true but I didn't really feel like any of them were any more credible than other theories. I'm not trying to say the conspiracy theories are bad or wrong, just that I'm not so sure I'm convinced of one over another just yet, personally.

>>17812576
>I didn't see any links to audio which worked
You must be blind, OP of archived thread. Check again, no spoon feeding allowed.

>>17812576
Here is the audio link:
spitfirelist.com/for-the-record/ftr-507-knock-knock-knockin%E2%80%99-on-heaven%E2%80%99s-gate/

Here is the second link that you said gave you an error:
http://www.madcowprod.com/2004/10/06/cointelpro-9-11-john-gray-and-saudi-genesis/