Let's Talk Chaos

My first attempt at a sigil was the Finding $5 one. I made it, cast it (not by jacking off, just by setting it on fire and burying the ashes), forgot about it.

About 6 months later I was in a public bathroom and found $1 on the sink and it reminded me of the sigil and how I was getting gypped out of $4.

A few hours later I was walking my dog and saw another $1 on the ground, so I picked it up and found it was actually a wad of 4 one dollar bills.

>>17764766
If this shit worked, why not make it 100 or even 1000? The physical act of dropping the money would be just as involved as dropping a few bills.

>>17764772
Because it doesn't work that way, brosef.

It's about shifting your beliefs and approaching the world from a different perspective. It's not about actually materializing money. You're likely to find $5 eventually, you're not likely to ever find $1000 lying around.

Now I'm sure I could cast a sigil about just getting $1000 and it would eventually come true.

>>17764795
>It's about shifting your beliefs and approaching the world from a different perspective

In other words, it doesn't actually have a real effect.

>>17764803
It does have a real effect, it's just an internal effect, not an external one.

Here's another:

I hadn't smoked in ~6 months or so but I was dying for a cigarette and considering picking up a pack on the way home from work - but I really didn't want to do this because I really just wanted one cigarette to get me through the craving, not a full pack that might get me hooked again.

I was the only one left in the office and was closing up when I noticed a fluffy looking cigarette pack outside on a window sill. It turned out to be 3/4 full.

I got pretty excited and went to get my lighter out of my backpack where I had been carrying it for the past 6 months. Then I remembered I had thrown it out 2 days beforehand, whoops. I tore up my car looking for a wayward lighter and couldn't find one. I went from thinking the universe was smiling on me to having a laugh at my expense.

I didn't want to take the pack with me home for fear I'd smoke all of them so I went to put the pack on a coworker's desk....and saw a cigarette lighter just sitting there. I borrowed the lighter, got sick off two puffs, put the cigarette out, put the pack and lighter back on the desk. I still don't smoke.

bumpers

Can I get an explanation?

>>17764807
If anyone says it's only internal and you can't affect the external, they don't know what they're talking about. That's modern psychology-theory of magic.

>>17765149
The internal can affect the external to a certain degree - like if I project confidence, I'm more likely to obtain the external things that I want.

That said, you can't just wish you'll stumble across $1000 and have it materialize.

>>17765263
Maybe, maybe not. 5 years ago, I was late with my rent one month because of some unforseen expenses that were more important than the rent money, and I wished really hard for rent money. The very same day, I found 200 € just lying there on the sidewalk. Took them to an exchange office, they were legit. Paid my rent with the cash.

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Perhaps this is a good thread to share it.

There is a ritual that will allow you to briefly contact the "unbeing" as it were; though it can be used to actually affect things, it is better to first use it for the sake of gaining knowledge, as this will give you a more intuitive understanding of how and why the ritual works. I should mention though that following this ritual will cause... discomfort. Many of the lessons and results of the ritual have the potential to be painful, emotionally or otherwise.

On that note, is anyone interested in it? I don't want to type it out if nobody cares

>>17765348
This Unbeing you speak of, is it the Abyss, Choronzon?

>>17765348
Go ahead

>>17765363
I want to say that it's more than that, though I imagine kaballists would disagree with me. It is elusive, whatever it is; as soon as you think of it, you aren't thinking of it. I think perhaps Choronzon is an extension of "it," but not actually it itself. It is that which compels things to un be. The ritual I'm mentioning allows you to become aware of its presence as a mechanism

>>17765384
I may be wrong, and probably am, thelemites and enochians (sp?) feel free to correct me, but in my understanding, Choronzon is the unmaker. If you evoke him unprepared, he unmakes reapity for you, and if you come prepared he unmakes your ego.

>>17765404
I’m not a Thelemite myself, so maybe I’m not quite in a place to address your point. If you’re basically talking about the abyss as in Daath however, I can say with some confidence that this is more than that. The reason I find this “un being” to be rooted in something more than Daath though is because it is more than just “not things;” it is an un-becomingness, an opposite of “be,” a lack, not. But it is somehow even more than that. In some indescribable way, it is that which perpetuates it. Anyway, let me describe the ritual.

>>17765479
>>17765367
You will need these things

>A dimly lit, enclosed room (candles are useful for this)
>Something to write with
>Something alive that is in pain and dying

Whichever way you obtain these things is up to you. The reason for the last of the three things will become apparent upon understanding the completed ritual, in relation to the turbulence created by the struggle to remain alive. I doubt that you have to use the symbols I mention, but I will list them anyway to give an idea of what function the symbolism should have. Draw a circle on the center of the living thing. Be sure that the circle is big enough to fit a few more lines in it. Next, draw a straight line going from the top of the circle to the bottom and dividing it in half. This represents the concept of becoming from the concept of being, but more importantly expresses the dualistic nature of the ritual. Next, draw a triangle facing up that touches the circle in its corners but doesn't go past it. Let this represent the forms through which the ritual is expressed. Finally, complete the shape with an inverted pentagram, and let this represent the "negative" force that acts upon the living thing. Let me again state that these symbols can be modified however you see fit as long as you understand what mechanisms you’re trying to represent, why they work, etc.

>>17765479
Nothingness in verb form.

>>17765482
Now set the living thing on the ground in the dimly lit room with the pentagram on it pointing towards you. You should be able to make out the shapes that you drew, but it should still be dark enough for your eyes to be somewhat strained. As the creature moves around, stare into the circle. It may take some time, but it will eventually act as a window of sorts from which you can become aware of the “not beingness.” This may perhaps be “disturbing” at first, but do not fear it. By no means should you walk away from the ritual or seemingly leave the window “open.” With caution and practice, you may learn to interact with “it.” Note that the creature will generally end up turning the pentagram away from you so that it will become uninverted from your perspective. It is perhaps not entirely necessary, but the ritual is best followed until nature runs its course and consumes the living thing; that is to say, until it dies. Some knowledge gained from this ritual should be immediate, but some will come in the time following the ritual, whether days or weeks. This knowledge can only be described as apparent vacuums being generated and then filled in a process that can be fairly distressing, but beneficial.

>>17765483
I tried to describe it as best as I could, but obviously no word will explain it

I don't think that there is an "inverted" pentagram. The pentagram just IS. It is either two prongs up, or one prong up.

>>17765492
It has no traits to describe it by. Nothingness as a noun just does nothing, is nothing. Nothingness in verb form unmakes, undoes. Unbecomes. I might be a bit biased on the matter, but I understood you well enough.

According to some explanatory model, (sigil) magic is used to increase the odds of a specific outcome manifesting. Then:

1) Why hasn't anyone tested this with a simple coin toss experiment? (Or any experiment where a bias in the outcome would be obvious)

2) How should one proceed to decrease the odds of something happening? It is always mentionned that the initial statement of intent should be a positive sentence (eg. "I want to be healthy" instead of "I want to not be sick"). One could think about increasing the odds of the opposite outcome, but how should one proceed when there are a gazillion possible outcomes (including some possibly unthought of) and one wants to prevent one specifically?

Anyone heard about or used Chaoshex?
https://sourceforge.net/projects/chaoshex/

What are your thoughts on this?

>>17765842
I kind of want to make a clone in lua, it looks fun.

>>17765904
Yeah, I used it yesterday, maybe it will work.
Too bad that it isn't fully complete, you can see in code that other spell and mantra commands there were planned commands for sigils, scrying, evocation and invocation. I'm curious how scrying and evocation were supposed to work.

>>17764758
I have a question:
Do you accept current scientific theories about our universe, do you believe that there is a paranormal explanation for everyday occurrences, or maybe a bit of both. Just curious after lurking a bit on this thread.

>>17765924
Not opie, but whatev
>Do you accept current scientific theories about our universe,
No, because if the universe is in fact infinite, rather than a toroid?, there exist infinite anomalies and infinite exceptions to the rules we currently have. The same principle applies to the multiverse theory
>do you believe that there is a paranormal explanation for everyday occurrences,
Maybe for uncommon occurrences, day to day stuff can be explained without the para- prefix
>or maybe a bit of both.
Sure, why not.
>Just curious after lurking a bit on this thread.
And where do you stand?

>>17765384
it's probably nothing itself anon cause as soon as you give name or descriptoin to nothing you are no longer speaking or thinking about nothing so therefore it is not nothing yet is but isn't.

Monte carlo simulations in excel 2016, best chaos magic ever. You see the future before it happens! And you make money!

>>17765483
annihilation?

>>17765977
Sorry for not responding...
>Just curious after lurking a bit on this thread.
In general I'm inclined to believe scientific theory because of my education, upbringing and general thoughts on the world in general. Though I do not believe largely in a paranormal, I am still interested in learning of it.

>>17765482
>>17765487

Sorry for being blunt, but wtf is this supposed to be good for?

If you want to contact death (the demon) you don't really need this stuff, but you don't seem to be doing that either?

If it's about some being consuming a life, there is no guarantee it will come there just because something is dying, most of them reincarnate and does not fall down like that. I can't imagine what you could learn from that kind of being anyway.

>>17765833
>1) Why hasn't anyone tested this with a simple coin toss experiment? (Or any experiment where a bias in the outcome would be obvious)

You can't normally decide when it happens. You can only make the sigil with the form "I want to win a coin toss in a situation that matters" and it will happen sometime in the coming week/month/year at a time when you don't expect it.

Someone was trying to prove a point on here before and said they cursed me (these things don't normally get thru at all) by making my breakfast egg slightly burned.

Well this one thing actually happen. A stupid situation was created like 2 weeks later and I did burn an egg.

Is this proof to anyone else that these things work? I don't think so, but the way it happened was very specific and the turn of events that made me leave the frying pan was so stupid it just had too many signs of coming from here rather than just chance.

>>17765924
>>Do you accept current scientific theories about our universe,
Yes
>>do you believe that there is a paranormal explanation for everyday occurrences
No, there are, at best, things we can't explain yet

But I do think rituals help create confidence, patience, and peace of mind which can in turn manifest itself in external ways and I enjoy looking for coincidences and trying to convince myself the universe is smiling on me.

Basically I try to have best of both words.

>>17764758
They just helped me organize my thoughts and visualize feelings. They're not magical powers to be used for selfish things.

>>17767279
Can you give some concrete examples?

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>>17767300
My thoughts were very erratic, and I was beginning to be unable to deal with them. I would go into a frenzy quickly painting symbols, and they weren't very cohesive. It let me visualize how my mind was working, and eventually move onto something else. After a while of this, combined with reading history books, spiritual information, etc. the symbols became more organized, almost mathematical.

I think they can help you "see" things that you can't otherwise see, and help thought processes, but you won't get money or fame unless you also put in the work required. It's not a shortcut.

Pic related is an example of what I drew at first.

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>>17767401
Then after a while I would visualize things like this one. My thoughts became more logical and calm, and I felt like I had gained much more knowledge in the process.

>>17767407

Anon's fucking bonkers

>>17767424
agreed

>>17767424
>>17767435
:(

>>17767471
Fuck those guys, i think it's interesting

>>17767407
Simon says "be mindful of your thoughts Anakin"

Bumpity

>>17764803
The trick is to think of placebos in a way that they still work even if you are aware of them being placebos. Kinda tricky but worked for me.

>>17768758
dude you dont even need the placeebo your mind can freeling produce the chemicals its like how if you think of eating certain foods your body will prepare itself to eat and digest that food before you eat it or how you can just try to remember a feeling and just have it be made as it was that you remember and so it happens.

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This is an interesting thread. Considering I've been studying and using magick for 40+ years I'd say you're pretty much on the right track. Eventually with enough practice it will become easy and you won't generally need the sigils anymore. You'll be able to bend reality with a thought. I'll be back later if anyone has any questions. Or I won't be back later. Make it happen. Influence me to come back. Ciao anons.

>>17769468
>undirected post
>refuses to come back unless forced

Can't decide if shitposter or chaos mage.

>>17766454
I don't know how mandatory is the "in a situation that matters" part. This guy >>17764766 didn't need $5 and got them anyway.
Also it is a very subjective notion, fluctuating over time and space and individuals, making a reproducible experiment almost impossible to design, let alone to fit it in a mechanistic model of how sigils/magic work, should we want one. Which doesn't mean it's not at work, only that it's going to be very hard to prove.

As for your eggs burning, I'd blame (unconscious) self-fulfilling prophecy or some form of attribution bias before considering the curse hypothesis. You are bound to burn your eggs sometimes, except this time you had something to attribute it to.

>You can't normally decide when it happens.
At least you know it can only happen when you toss coins. So if you toss coins several thousand times a day (tedious, huh?) you should gather some interesting data to work with. But we all know a true magician/experimenter flees away when faced with the necessity to crunch numbers and produce meaningful statistics.

>>17768758
Recent research seems to indicate that placebo is just as effective when you know you're being given the sugar pill, as long as you trust your doctor, and that taking it will help.

>>17769141
>your mind can freeling produce the chemicals
The brain can produce the chemicals but won't unless triggered by an appropriate context. Sugar pill or tinted vodka is one way to do it. Magic too. Is there more to the latter than a mere placebo effect? I don't know.

>>17769503
I'm more inclined to the latter, but studying magick for 40 years would make him at least 55, so he couldn't possibly know how to use a computer

>>17769512
You can stop replying now.

>>17769521
Why?

>>17769527
Because between an angel thread and a chaos magic thread, I'd rather have you shitting up the angel thread, and we both know you lack the foresight to understand your actions.

>>17769532
Oh snap, and nobody noticed when I was helpful and wise the other day. All you faggots ever care about are my shitposts, so I'm giving you guys what you want

>>17769468
What is your method for the no sigils stuff? What do you think when casting a spell with a thought?
The method I have for it can be tiring to use at times, so I'd like to know.

>>17769468
I'm back and no I'm not shitposting. The sigil stuff works as does all the other ritual stuff. Spells and whatnot. All the ritual is for is to teach your brain how to actually accomplish the magick. Belief is a powerful thing. I'd liken it to placebo effect. That's the only way to describe it. I've been studying magick since I was 8 and I'm almost 52. It took a long time for me to make it all click but once I did it was a wow moment. Several things that helped me was a vegetarian diet but fish was ok too and some major sleep deprivation for an extended period. 3 hours a night max for about 6 months. You need to reprogram the human biocomputer aka your brain. Keeping negative outside influences to a minimum is beneficial also. Listen to that voice that tells you "cop ahead, slow the fuck down" or whatever applies in your particular situation. Eventually it will all come together for you if you're lucky.

>>17769927
What are things to do besides casting spells to get money or sex?

Have you created servants or anything?

>>17770187
That's fucked up man. Magic is for sending good vibes out into the world for those that need them.

>>17770224
>>17770224
Although, it can get dangerous if you effect too many people, and are unprepared for the consequences. Happy travels!

>>17770224
I meant like servitors.

>>17770187
About 20 years ago myself and 2 friends started our own "church". Basically a religion for assholes who enjoy being assholes. We created a godform and it's been helpful. It also likes to prank us sometimes. Fires of unknown origin, plugged up sewers, lots of flat black paint spilled on our clothes etc. It kept ex-wives at bay as well as the police. We're not exactly the most law abiding trio in existence. It also guided us to our current wives who are awesome. As for money, that's best gotten the old fashioned way by working. Preferably doing something you enjoy because then it's not work. The magick just helps guide you in the right direction, it doesn't print money in your basement. As usual, belief is a powerful tool for making magicians work. I just take what works and run with it. Religion/paradigms are like a car. Drive it until it doesn't work then park it out back and hopefully you can scavenge some parts off of it for your new one if you have to.

>>17767401
>>17767407
we can see your progress

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i got a question for all chaos magicians. are curses real? and if they are how can i detect them?

>>17764836
>I found cigarettes

>I found a lighter

>The universe has sent me a message

>>17769927
>Been doing magic since I was eight years old

>Admit that it's probably the placebo effect

>Still believe in magic anyways