A new consciousness every time you wake up

>>17689536
Look up the time-worm explanation of being. Also, try to define what "consciousness" is in a meaningful way and you'll see the difficulty in making statements about consciousness.

>>17689536
I get up like six times a night to pee. do I die every time

>>17689536
only this theory falls through when you realize that I am still having a subjective experience form one day to the next

>>17689536
It's not new though it's an accumulation of all our past experiences constantly revising the same system, our consciousness. Even in our dreams we are referencing the same past interactions

I see it more like a bridge, each day a different piece added

>>17689536
i wake up at least 7-8 times a night OP, is that me dieing and coming back to life every time? what would be the point of that? what would it do?

>>17689536
Just pray you don't wake up as me.

>>17689536
I've thought about this before when I was watching Star Trek, since technically the teleporter would have to kill you and reassemble you on the ship. When someone's heart stops, and they are revived, is that the same consciousness as before, or did that original person 'die'? If you were to be mashed down to molecular level in some kind of giant blender, and then put back together, are you the same person still? The atoms that make you up are virtually no different than the ones anywhere else in the universe, so what if we used matter from some planet on the other side of the galaxy, would it still be you, or just a copy?

Our atoms are cycled out through our body all the time, you probably don't have hardly any of the same ones as when you were a child anymore. Are you the same person?

Too big of a question for me to answer, but I think we won't know the answers to these questions until we learn more about our own self awareness and consciousness and sentience. Also alot of this depends on our view of death, is it simply the lack of existence? Or is there an after life? Can we be "sucked out" of this void/afterlife if we were able to repair your lifeless body after you had died and bring you back? Our tiny little ape brains aren't wired to understand all of this, in my view.

That's my 2 cents

>>17689536
I read about a study in which they discovered everyones DNA has a specific frequency, like a radio station. Each human beings frequency is unique and slightly different. If your consiousnes isn't created by the mind and you are really consciousness that tunes into a human body with your personal frequency like a radio, then going to sleep might be like disconnecting which would explain why dreams are so strange yet feel real. Instead of dying every night you just disconnect from your meat puppet.

>>17690160
I've also thought about the transporter dilemma, but came to a different conclusion.

Basically, when people argue about whether traveling through a teleporter kills you, they're not actually arguing over the facts of the matter. Everyone already agrees on the exact sequence of events involved: you step into a machine, your body is scanned and pulled apart, and then an exact replica of you is built elsewhere. What they are actually disagreeing about (even if they don't notice it) is what counts as "you" in this scenario - different people actually view "themself" as being different things.

There seems to be two major groups in this: The first group of people considers themself to be the physical continuation of their brains. To them, a copy of themself is just a copy - a distinct person who happens to be incredibly similar, but isn't them. "They" die when they step into the teleporter.
The second group identify with the "pattern" of their brain; to them they are their thoughts and memories. From their point of view, a copy is as much "them" as the original, because its mind functions the exact same way. "They" walk into the teleporter, and "they" walk out the other end.

Neither of these two groups are actually wrong; they just consider themself to be entirely different types of thing. That's why these arguments never seem to go anywhere - the participants literally don't understand each other's point of view.

>>17689536
>Every time we go to sleep and lose consciousness, I think that consciousness dies.
OP seems to be describing a much more extreme variant of the first view. If I'm reading their post right, they see "themself" as their current continuity of awareness. Assuming they're serious, from their perspective they really will cease to exist once they lose consciousness. That's pretty damn scary.

Interestingly, >>17689706 appears to be describing the second view.

>>17689536

Pretty much. It's why "ego death" is a misnomer, at best.

A flame is not a thing, a flame is energy being transformed, it is energy transforming (the oxygen and the fuel).

A flame is just a concept of the mind, with each passing second that a flame remains lit, that flame transforms into its next incarnation, because its never composed of the same atoms being transformed.

>>17689536
You can't turn off conciousness though. Even when you are sleeping your brain is still active. Same goes for coma, you never completely shut down until death.

>>17689686
Yes.

And you have diabetes.

The flame that comes on when you wake up is more like a stove that had its pilot light on the whole time.

>>17689536

I'd actually argue for something farther than that, OP. Usisng your analogy: if you carefully observe the flame of a lighter, you'll see it's not a continuous process, but rather a continually-renewing/changing phenomenon, which 'dies' when the allowing condition are removed (air or fuel).

Every second we are a new conciousness, but echoes through the halls of memory lend themselves cunningly to the persistant illusion of 'I'

Is very well explained.
But still people don't seem to realize, that there isn't just one kind of consciousness, a total consciousness if you will.
That is not ours. We don't have total consciousness.
There is consciousness everywhere. Many different ones in your body.

You, by assuming that there is this total consciousness which is either you or possessed by you, create the problem you think about, and that you are trying to solve.
Which is impossible, you see.

When you go sleep, several connections are broken, that is, communication between several consciousness' of your body stops, and this will also stop "you".

So yes, you see, "you" are "new" everytime this connection is reestablished.
But this "you" which is the result of these consciousness and their connection is not the total you.
Finding this out is mostly reffered to as enlightenment, but that is a whole nother story.

Wew lad.

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>>17689536
Buddhism goes really deep into that. They talk about how consciousness is a momentary phenomenon, moment to moment giving the illusion of constantly existing.

From what Ive experienced with the first and second stage of Turya the 4th state associated with enlightenment in Vedanta you are absolutely right. Only difference in the first to states of Turya is the 2nd is more permanent. In my experience it lasts until you go to sleep whether a nap or for the night and when you wake up its gone. I worked with a born again Christian who would go into it all the time like I would and we could recognize each other as people who are in that state and can go into that state at will; in my religion Trika Saivism its considered more sacred to be able to go into the 2nd stage of Turya at will than to be able to go into the 5 stage. 3rd stage is similar to schizophrenia I guess cause you realize and literally see existence as a dream. 4th stage is like severe schizophrenia cause its like you are leaving the illusion behind and ego gets fucking pissed! 5 stage you become like a statue unmovable by reality. You ever seen the statues of the Buddha? Im sure they are in the 7th stage of Turya the highest but them sitting there unaffected by the world is a product of the 5th stage. Ever seen the laughing Buddha statue? Thats a product of the first 2 stages of Turya and I personally refer to it as laughing Buddha mode.

Yeah some born again Christians are legit; I didn't know before I met that guy. He thought I was evil lmao cause I didn't worship Jews as god. What they call the Holy Spirit we call Kundalini and have it down to a science.

Pic is depicting either the 6th or 7th stage of Turya; like the first two stages they are the same but the 7th stage is permanent and you never come out of it even during sleep or after you die. Ive only experienced the 6th state fully 15 years ago. After 9 years of meditating I started to get glimpses of it all the time throughout the day.

>>17691073
At last a man who understands what he is talking about because he has seen it.
It's rare to see here.

May you be well.

wake me up

can't wake up

>>17690131
spoops

>>17690160
That's what's weird. I was very outgoing, annoying as fuck kid to everybody.

When I turned in my teens I became very withdrawn, self-loathing, the total opposite of what I was. Maybe there's some truth to this atoms shit. Nothing traumatic even happened in my life to change the way I am now. I didn't even get fat or nothing. Same person, mind just changed over the course of junior high.

We do replace all of our cells after some time.

Do the "us" made with new cells is still the same "us" that it was before?

>>17693879
"growing up"
"puberty"

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>>17689536
this theory can only be true if reality is purely mental.

if the world only exists because our minds are creating it, then sure it makes sense that we stop existing when we lose consciousness. But if the world exists outside of our consciousness, and we are perceiving it rather than projecting it, then our body would still be alive and healthy even when we're not conscious of it.

i'd say it's about a 50/50 chance.

>humans are made of butane

nice philosophy

>>17693926
i don't think he's using that as proof. he's just using it as a metaphor to illustrate the philosophy of the concept

>>17693896
But a lot of people I knew back then never changed as much as I did, some not at all (even to this day). I believe people eventually mature but that's different. I'm talking odd personality changes that can't be explained. It's like my cells were totally replaced by some freak quantum accident.

>>17689536
the only reason you think this is because you do drugs, or are on such heavy meds that it fycks with your sleep cycle.

be a normal human and sleep correctly and stop being a degenerate, and you'll eliminate the feelings that make you think that this dumb shit happens.

>>17690957
>A flame is not a thing
actually, a flame is plasma. plasma is matter. you're just fucking stupid.

>>17693889
You know, Oxford University has new people in it all the time, still it's always Oxford University.

>>17693923
Would that make a 100 out of that 50/50 when I said, that you are both perceiving and projecting?

Someone tell me please, why do people always just take black or white?
Is it because their social institution made them so that they believe they must choose?
I really don't get it.

>>17689536
>implying you really lose consciousness when you sleep

>>17689536
We have consciousness while sleeping, we just don't remember it. If we completely shut off that connection we'd lose all memories.

Everytime you sneeze you die. That's why people say "bless you". It's the spirit trying to escape the body.

People actually believed this. Dumb, right?

How many lighters did you go through getting fucking baked tonight

>>17689536
Your base premise is flawed.

The analogy and thought process falls apart when you realize that the brain and the consciousness do not disappear during sleep any more than the consciousness disappears when taking propofol. What is impaired is your perception, your logic, and your ability to form memories.

Do you not dream? If were to scan your brain during sleep, would it be void of activity? Of course not.

To limit your consciousness by way of operational definition as merely the state when you are fully awake and forming memories is asinine.

>>17690979
Not true but funny statement

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>>17694564
>when we are fully awake

>>17694564
this only convinced me that dreams are your means of modifying the machine before it gets filled with a new consciousness, kind of like cleaning the counters before the next shift arrives at work.

I know during depressive states, weeks without dreaming, I remain in the same state of mind the entire month.

>>17691027

Well put

>>17694583
>this only convinced me that dreams are your means of modifying the machine before it gets filled with a new consciousness
Then you are a fool who is begging the question, your line of thinking requires your conclusion to already be true.

>I go weeks without dreaming
Wrong. You dream every night, multiple times a night, without fail. You simply do not remember them.

It is thought that during sleep there are certain chemicals and compounds that are flushed from the system, but that implies nothing about the continuity of your consciousness and whether it is truly interrupted (it's not).

Honestly, even an idiot could argue potently against this line of thinking by saying "Well if my consciousness were totally gone until I'm ready to wake up, how can I be awoken by noise?"

>>17694583
And I want to say something to that.
I went through years of depression.

At a certain point during this "wandering through depression", he who has really allowed oneself to be depressed will know what I speak of, something in me suddenly woke up in me.
It is as if during my "waking state" a feeling a "I" awoke in me that I somehow remember by taste. This "I" that I was first only observer of showed me a way to study the very phenomenon you speak of in an objective way, that is, purely by self observation.

When I come to this "wandering through depression", note that I am using language in a descriptive way here,
I must say that "it" itself is an extreme state of sleep.
When I personaly talk about sleep I speak about a particular state of awareness. Namely the one of "non-awareness".
What people usualy then refer to as their "waking consciousness" came to be known by me as a state of lowered consciousness. Dreams still do happen, but on a more subtle level. There what some refer to as "subconsciousness", this subconscious is active then when we "sleep", it is also responsible for "daydreaming" and "excessive imagination" aswell as forming memory and the sense of time.

You see there are these two types of consciousness I talk about which in their so to speak blending create a whole different kind of consciousness, which has become known to me as the actual waking state of men.

Only such a man could be free from the binding of imagination and dreams. Usually refered to as detatchment. Your brain as you know it is infact "one whole" by the virtue of 3 brain parts coming together.

I already spoke about 3 gradations of Consciousness.

The real and mysterious "I" that I speak of I havent even mentioned yet. I have looked deep into it and I have not found it. It is imagination.

>>17694658
Oh hey look a whole bunch of bullshit

Self-observation is quite possibly the single least-useful thing to use when determining the nature of consciousness, for what should be exceedingly obvious reasons.

As you may already see, this "rabbit hole" that I apearantly speak of goes deep and it leads nowhere.
Now if one just thinks of the horrific events that will take place if man actually considers to learn from something that doesn't go anywhere, something that always remains as it is in a world that is constantly moving.

Here I tie in with
>>17691073

Again, thank you,I love you

>>17694662
Elaborate please these obvious reasons for us.

>>17689536
But does that make any difference whether it's true or not? I don't really think so. Same with the universe simulation thing.

>>17689536
that's not how sleep works, the conscious isn't suspended or anything, think of it like a computer's RAM or cartridge storage

How about you apply this philosophy to time or space, or extend it to each instant?


We're a new man every instant. The conscious isn't constant. Time is the only constantly active thing in the world, and that's because it's basically just an illusion. I'm not sure on Planck seconds or anything (because this is uninformed dumbass philosophy on my part lol), but you can just keep scaling the passage of time down smaller and smaller, even theoretically to faster than what people can see. Taking an "instant" as the smallest measure of time (which is only really viewed by change), you can consider the space between to be nonexistant, as a completely still universe would be nonexistant. Even if there's nobody to measure, that period still "exists", and it's infinitely long. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think energy (movement, particles, subparticles(?)) fundamentally is the only existence in the world, and even those things are limited by speed. So there's periods of time where they're entirely inactive, and therefore nonexistant.

There's also every micromovement of the body in relation to that mathematical stuff about a shape's transformation along a grid, but that's just maths I guess.

This crap doesn't really mean all that much when everything's meaningless though

>>17694307
matter's just energy

There should be a philosophy board

>>/phi/

>>17689686
Probably. Stop drinking alcohol before bed

>>17690201
Do you have a link to said study? I find that very interesting

>>17694736
//lit/(weed)/

>>17694665
The inherent fallibility of memory and reason in the altered states you're trying to investigate.

You must use outside techniques to gain true insight. Otherwise you end up with notions like >>17694583 had that he had long stretches where he didn't dream, when the reality was that he simply had no dream recall.

>>17690984

I like this one

>>17694763
Yes ofcourse and that is what I am talking about.
I write as I think and feel myself through this "problem", problem in the sense of a math problem, you are doing the numbers for the reason of doing the numbers, often reffered to as learning by doing.

I do these numbers through a system that I have learned, like everybody when they learn about adding, subtracting ect

This whole process could be called something as "reasoning".

Now I have reasoned, that while there was still activity or even increased activity in one part of his brain there was none or diminished activity in another part of the brain.
These parts are rather definite points of concentration.
One part cannot remember what happened in another part because of diminished activity.

So it is true that in the brain there is still activity, but it's different from this "waking state".
In other words your real waking state depends on the state of these parts who actively participate in life.

That is how drugs and medication works.
Your brain is a drug fueled organism.

I say that there is a "mechanical" side to this aswell as a "conscious" or the experienced side.
This is when we say "I". I eat, I sleep, I walk.
These are all descriptions for what you see me doing in the absolute most crude way.

Because who would want to start talking through all the processes that take place until and at the moment one falls asleep. Infact it's impossible to do it yourself while you're doing it.
This is what I mean by the perspective of the experiencer. As opposed to the perspective of the outward observer.

>>17694731
Energy is just hidden information

>>17694836
Hidden information is just Entropy

>>17694842
Explain this please.

>>17694849
I'm >>17694731, for reference. I think he means that it's still a sort of non-permanent, unspecial "energy" if it's a form of fundamental activity, not too knowledgeable on this stuff so I'm just making assumptions as to what "information" means there.
Maybe they mean it's residual from the big bang?

>>17694836
are you the same poster? what's the point you're making?

sorry, I should start combining posts

>>17694892
That is why tripcodes are possible.

>>17694905
no, just apologising for spamming the thread when I could've just replied to both at once. no need to tripcode either, doesn't really matter if I'm impersonated

bet your code's secretly calling me a faggot or something

>>17694914
I don't participate in calling people names like that when I am joking.

>>17694914
Anyways what I was getting is, that this "I" people talk about is just an idea.
It is in the way people talk about it that makes it appear in a certain way.

Everybody talks about I in their own way. What is not assumed is, that he who is seeing this "I" is everywhere the same. It's not really seperate, but "It is unity".

With this reasoning I say that this "I" that I talk about when I talk about it with you may be indeed different, but we both here talking are "on a subtle level" the same. In our functioning we are alike, but the product of this process may vary in quality, or let me use the proper word "qualia" as like in color, smell and sound.

>>17694413
well obviously in either scenario you're doing both. what i meant is either the world exists outside of human consciousness, and we're just part of the whole, or the world only exists because our mind is creating it for us. if both of those were true it would be paradoxical

>>17690160
There is part of your nervous system the never regenerates. It forms at around the age of two. This is the part that is you, and remains you until you die.

>>17689536
Ive had a few moments were i woke up in the morning and it took about a minute to realized were i was and who my family were no alcohol or drugs involved, i hope i dont get alzheimer's

>>17695930
Me too. It must be fairly common (I hope).
After an especially vivid dream, or very short sleep, it's not so strange

What if everything you were seeing here wasn't real and was only a fragment of your imagination ,

hello ?

>>17695997
Technically it is.

Damn dude

>>17696003 what do you
mean ?

>>17696008
What you see is just information translated by the brain into a visual image. Your keyboard isn't actually "black", the plastic material is altering the light that stikes it and reflects "black" light. Your eye "feels" the wavelength, tells the brain, which then tells other parts of the brain what to feel.

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>>17696025

.. Our initial vision is also reversed and upside-down.(Light from below hits the top of the eye, light from above hits the bottom etc) The brain flips the image.

>>17696029
Dude, I'm just explaining how light works. Chill.

>>17690989
This, it happens every moment, so fast you can't see it happening

>>17696036
There is only one moment. This one.

>>17696033
i'm just posting a picture that i thought would be relevant to the conversation

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>>17689536
Define conciousness faggo
check m9
lol oyu are so btfo
fitte me fagog

ded

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>>17689536
Guess what you FAT arsed Neckbeard cunt No one with half a brain gives two fucks about your shite leave !

>>17696103
are you scottish ?

>>17696108
are you a cunttttt

>>17696110
Watch were you step

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>>17696108
yes i am and i am and im a ameirfat

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>>17696121
you are a cunt and until you you gasp you last breath will be a ...................cunt

>>17696126
Read closely , tommorow you will wake up and will feel great , you will proceed to go out later in the evening but as you do so you will see an unusual sign one which you haven't seen before and it will catch your eye , you will proceed to read it but as you do , you will have a weird sensation , as soon as you have this you NEED TO WAKE UP , that is all i can say for now ... see you on the other side

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>>17696143
why dont you read my fucking tealeaves demented silly cunt ...im housebound you faggot so the only sign i will see is A motherfucking traffic light outside walk away fuck oooo

>>17689536
BEAST RAPIN

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>>17696143
sHIELDED FROM SHITE

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>>1796143
SO PIG FUCKER