How do you know your not worshiping a demon?

The god of the Abrahamic religions most definitely has demonic tendencies. It is no surprise that he demands blood sacrifices

>>17672165
Most people 'follow' on a local level. They go to church for a sense of community, and fulfillment of doing something they don't consider to be selfish.

There is the zealous, the people who use it for business, and the mentally ill as well. For the most part it's people attending a group event with some singing and meditation.

Stop trying to "enlighten" people. It's pathetic.

>>17672200
I'm just asking a question. Truth be told I'm not even atheist trying to bait. I believe something is out in the beyond, just don't know what.

I do know that we will never know even half of whats in the spiritual realm, at least in this stage.

I just wondered this question for a while after realizing that religions liked to demonize older ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRW94FtardU

>>17672236
I've heard this before. It is still hard to figure out what to believe.

>how do you know your not worshiping something evil?

Theognosis. If you had it, you'd know, too.

>>17672576
But how do do you know that you know? Maybe you just think that you know.

>>17672165
>To all of you people who follow main stream religions out in the world, how do you know your not worshiping something evil?

If what we as christians define to be god were evil, then good wouldn't exist at all, for it would be impossible for it to exist.

Really, if you were to use our definition of evil too, then there would be nothing in existence at all.

>Aside from your holy books telling you god is good how do you truly know this?

The one god's goodness has been seen and witnessed by foreign cultures who saw aspects of him in nature and came to conclusions that point to him.

For instance, aristotle's monotheism that derives from his metaphysical theories on essence.

Or even hindu monotheism, although I don't know enough about them to speak heavily on them.


>They don't represent us

Well, make an actual detailed study of historical politics and you'll see very plainly that almost every "religious" conflict had non-religious motives wherein the rulers of the times used religion as propaganda.

For instance, the spanish inquisition had more to do with the needs of the spanish monarchs to remove caliphate sympathizers than with christ's teachings.

Or the european wars of religion, which had more to do with disgruntled HRE princes wanting independance from the monarch of the papal states. Again: nothing really to do with the religion itself, but religion was co-opted to make good propaganda.

So, yeah, in most cases, it's readily shown that god isn't the source of evil -- man and his greed is.

>>17672165
Because we're not living in 40k where you can accidentally worship something.

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>>17673109
> we're not living in 40k where you can accidentally worship something.

Is that supposed to mean something?

>>17672182
Abrahamic God =Demiurge

>>17673125
Yea, in 40k, even if you're a follower of the Imperial Cult, if you kill someone, you're powering up the God of blood, war, honour, and martial prowess, Khorne.
Whereas in reality, people worship what they worship, and it's not accidental. It's also not a daemon unless they choose it to be.

>>17673137
Are you talking about some retarded video game like children play?

>>17673141
I am indeed. Since that is what OP was sounding like with his folly.

>>17672165
The Abrahamic god is undoubtedly evil. The proof is in the books themselves. Let's see, he kills a bunch of kids (10th plague of egypt), condones slavery and rape, demands animal and human sacrifice (one human in particular to be nailed to a piece of wood for several hours first, how fucking sick), orders the death of anyone who doesn't worship him, tries to demonize all competition (hurr durr dey false gods, I iz only true god, because I say so), encourages ignorance, and on top of all that, is probably laughing his fat egotistical ass off at his 3 main factions of supporters killing each other because they all believe the other two "aren't doing it right".

Fuck YHWH and all of his followers. I'd rather worship one of the many other gods who DON'T threaten me with torture and death for not being a subservient little bitch.

>>17673097
>If what we as christians define to be god were evil, then good wouldn't exist at all, for it would be impossible for it to exist.
Just because you say something, doesn't mean it's true, and you are basing your conclusion on a premise you already decided was right. It's subtle, but that's still straight up circular logic. It's very possible that your god is an evil douche canoe, and one of the gods he slandered as "demons", "false idols", and "false gods" is actually a truly benevolent being. Your entire post is dripping with confirmation bias.

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>>17673146
>tipping intensifies

gnosticism is the true way, abrahamic religions are only made to deceive us

>>17673189
>implying i was promoting Autistism.

>>17673172
>Just because you say something, doesn't mean it's true

then I can dismiss you with equal ease.

>It's very possible that your god is an evil douche canoe, and one of the gods he slandered as "demons", "false idols", and "false gods" is actually a truly benevolent being.

If any of these lesser beings were benevolent, it is irrelevant, as they are weak, which is proven by their fall from prominence.

In any case, such lesser beings would be contingent on the first cause anyway, so their will is indirectly the will of what we call god anyway...and when they deviate from that, they cease to exist.

>>17673195
>deceive

so a religion about jacking off to sigils and denying the material world to the point of killing yourself is the really-real truth?

>>17673207
I'm not really expecting you to understand it, but this world, peoples behaviour in certain situations, it's not the way nature intended it to be. humans are the only ones that destroy this planet for monetary gains, going to war for dumbest reasons, incarcerating others in prison industry while cashing out on this. on one hand I truly enjoy benefits of such civilisation, but then again seeing what's going on, what lengths people go to to achieve wealth, it's sickly inhumane.

>>17673218
then you have a problem with industrialism, not abrahamism.

>>17673223
religion in general reaches to all parts of everyday life, it's all controlled by juice

>>17673223
in abrahamic religions god is depicted as a murderous maniac who sends you for eternal punishment if you don't do as he says, that's sure as fuck sounds like a "good" being

>>17672165
Depends by definition, by the archaic one they very well may be demons, by which I mean simply a spiritual entities. By newer one they are not demons simply because demons are the beings opposing them. I do suspect thought that in majority of cases deities are godforms/egregores or merely personified and possibly somewhat sentient aspects of greater whole/reality.

>>17673141
If the example from the fiction the anon used to explain his point works, then it does and there's no need to get butthurt over it, anon.

>>17672165
Of these main stream religion, as you call them, many put more weight on right belief rather than right action.
Now I use "right belief" and "right action", which are terms that many of you will combine with Buddhism and so I must say, that I am not only talking about Buddhism.

Somehow then, people seem to put more faith in their believing as they put in the God they preach of.
Furthermore today I believe strongly, because many affirming impulses have occured, tomorrow I don't believe as strong, as after some denying impulses I sense doubts. So the capacity to believe when one doesn't or not to believe when one does is more than not out of our own reach.

I would even go as far as saying, that such a thing hasn't even occured to quite some people as of yet.

So what can it matter in which god you believe when you can't help feeling challenged as soon as your belief is challenged. You are truly a Challenger, see, a name which certainly can only apply to one of the True Gods Opposition.

Christ will not challenge you.
So why do so many Christians feel that everybody else ought to be challenged and sentenced by trial by the one and only Christ?
Simply because you have challenged yourself to believe in what you do not really believe.

Then I must be at war. There is no other way, you see. I have set myself up for an immense internal struggle, and by living such a life I become a challenge to everyone else who in their turn either live the same life as I do, or completely different lives alltogether.

Can you see a demon in this? Maybe this little story can show you something.

>>17673195
Gnosticism IS an Abrahamic religion.

>>17672165
I worship the All-Inclusive Supreme, the Ultimate Source and Support of Existence. If you start with this premise, rather than skipping right to a value judgement, then I must conclude that in some way Krishna is both the source of and ultimate good and evil.

Which is no problem. Because good and evil are subjective value judgements extended and codified across a culture. They are, in other words, just a grand way of saying "I don't like thing." Or as a friend put it the other day, good and evil are abstract shorthands for "these are the qualities that define 'us' and these are the qualities that define 'them.'"

With this, it is easy to see how anyone opposed to God's position could declare Him as the Ultimate Evil.

>>17672984
>like, how can you, like, know, ANYTHING, maaaaan

You're boring.

>>17673538
shut your whore mouth, it's closer to pagan beliefs than anything else

OP here. I just want to say how surprised I am seeing this thread explode overnight and not turning into a complete shit storm.

Just want to thank all of you for your contributions.

>>17672165
>To all of you people who follow main stream religions out in the world, how do you know your not worshiping something evil?
>ye shall know them by their fruits

Christianity (not catholicism) has led to much good in the world and the true God shows true miracles and true love, as opposed to requiring vanity and wickedness like all the other gods

>>17672165
>Seeing how many different groups from many religions did cruel acts in the name of god it seems something what a demon would do. Then when confronted with such acts his followers would say "They don't represent us" to keep the god in good standing.
That's called the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Usually the person using it doesn't know the name of the fallacy - tell them to google it.

>>17676047
"the true God shows true love"
>God creates an eternal rape dungeon called hell
> DAT REAL LOVE RIGHT THERE, MAH BOY

>>17673551
Ignoring the fact that "Gnosticism" is considered an awful term by the scholarly community (and fairly reasonably so), this anon is correct. One of the few unifying tenets of the Gnostic traditions is that the object of veneration is explicitly not the abrahamic deity, but something which transcends it by several orders. If you meant to mean abrahamic in the sense that the abrahamic deity still figures into the mythology as a prominent feature, then okay -- though this is decidedly not the correct terminology for describing this characteristic of the Gnostic traditions.

>>17673551
Pagan were wrong about pretty much everything. It's why they converted to Christianity so quickly. You don't want your dead faith to be associated with paganism.

>>17676059
>implying the heathens sent down there don't secretly enjoy rape

>>17676047
Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy have done far more good than protestantism. Protestantism is a fucking joke and is dying extremely quickly because of that fact.

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>>17672165
The thing about worshiping something is that you have to know what you're worshiping. The idea of what is evil and good is relative. As far as Christians doing horrible things in the name of god, you can chuck that up to human nature. You can be a good person matter what religion you are (Unless your incredible obscure religion specifically demands the blood of the innocent, and even then its up to interpretation) , muslem, christian, Buddhist whatever, its about what you bring to the table. If you're an evil person you're going to be an evil christian or whatever. Its not the religion, its the person weaponizing it.

>>17676059
Actually god didn't create hell. According to the bible it is simply being separated from god.

Those in hell are unconscious and so cannot feel pain. “There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol.”—Ecclesiastes 9:10.
Good people go to hell. The faithful men Jacob and Job expected to go there.—Genesis 37:35; Job 14:13.
Death, not torment in a fiery hell, is the penalty for sin. “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”—Romans 6:7.
Eternal torment would violate God’s justice. (Deuteronomy 32:4) When the first man, Adam, sinned, God told him that his punishment would simply be to pass out of existence: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) God would have been lying if he were actually sending Adam to a fiery hell.
God does not even contemplate eternal torment. The idea that he would punish people in hellfire is contrary to the Bible’s teaching that “God is love.”—1 John 4:8; Jeremiah 7:31.

>>17676182
That being said there are plenty of verses that describe it as the stereotypical version so eh who knows

Why are they referred to as Abrahamic Faiths? Abraham had no input to their Eschatology with the possible exception of the rejection of Human Sacrifice and this is dubious. During the time of Judges there is the story of Jephtath's Daughter and even Esther demanded a sacrifice.
- Abraham was a Babylonian. He wasn't introduced to "The Most High God" (Elohim or YHWH I'm tired) until he met Melkezidek. The religion of Abraham's descendants would seem to have little to do with Abraham's beliefs.

Abraham himself tried to live peacefully among his neighbors (near Hebron) - see the treaty of Berrsheba.

We must remember also that YHWH demanded (through Moses) the slaughter of even the Midianite boys. It was okay to keep the virgins as war booty though. Sounds like ISIS.

I'm tired
Rant complete.

>>17676793
Because they all claim origin in the covenant Abraham made with God.

>>17676909
Understand.
My point is (I am really tired) these religions have little to do with the religion Abraham believed in. They are all revisionists with no claim to any eschatological inheritance from Abraham himself.

- It is insulting to mankind that God says it's okay that's some dude who slept with his sister is the father of nations through the issue of said incest.

- Hagar and Ishmael are okay people. Sarah was an evil woman who married her brother and convinced him to send Hagar and Ishmael away. (Really tired).

I am just so tired of the planet drinking the Kool Aid and believing the fairy tales. The emperor is naked.

Rant complete. I will now pass into slumber really quickly.

>>17676182
This is very true the Absence of god is hell. The devil is not evil, he merely works for god and is being punished.

>>17672182
i don't know what this has to do with demons but ok. you might misunderstood something there.

>>17676933
>My point is (I am really tired) these religions have little to do with the religion Abraham believed in.

100% irrelevant. My post - and my point - is that they all CLAIM origin in that event.

>>17676092
>One of the few unifying tenets of the Gnostic traditions is that the object of veneration is explicitly not the abrahamic deity, but something which transcends it by several orders.
Uh, it varies. For quite a few later "gnostic" churches it's mostly God proper even in the old testament. Right at the beginning when creation is happening you have some kind of demiurge universally. At least I think universally, there may well be one there. Maybe the ealdensians, didn't they just believe in a fall from grace or something?

>>17676118
"Protestantism" is not a unified thing. It spans everything from the Church of England and Lutherans (who still claim apostolic succession, they just fired the Pope, and rightly so) to backwoods Baptist freaks. Some sects are better than Catholicism, some are even worse.

>>17672576

The definitions I found are kinda vague. You mean you feel inspired by god in some way? You had a vision?

>>17676182
>ignoring the verses that describe it as a fiery pit
>bringing up Sheol when the afterlife in the NT sounds nothing like it; and is instead compared to Gehenna-- a place where the Jews burned their trash

0/10, see me after class.

>>17679594
>ignoring the verses that describe it as a fiery pit
Such as, Dante?

>>17679613
Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Matthew 13:50 - And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 - Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Hebrews 10:26-31 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins...

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

>>17672165

Muslims at least are worshiping a demon

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>>17679618
>>17679613

Rekt

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>>17673538
WTF? Not this Wednesday it isn't.

>>17679618
The Matthew passages are really only the applicable ones, but i'll accept that.

>>17672165
The devil is inside god as soon as he/she/it serves slavery.

>>17672165
>>17672182
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened for you."(matthews 7:7).

It's true, most people who claim a religion or faith only do so at face value. With them, what you see is what you get. If you want to know God, then get to know him.

Be patient.

>>17672165
you're**

:^)

>>17672165
What if demons are not evil at all, the gods you are referring to are, and these "gods" just taint their names to control you? That is close to what I believe, thought not exactly.

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The fact that they request or need worship in itself is a huge red flag for me.

Even more when they never even show their fucking faces to ask for the worship.

>>17686131
>Even more when they never even show their fucking faces to ask for the worship.
Well there was this one time, about 2000 years ago...

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>>17686197
you don't ask for proof on that, do you?

>>17686207
Kinda do. And it's at least more verifiable than Aristotle existing.

>>17686216
Hold the fuck up. Give us some context on that little gem of insight.

>>17686228
May not have been Aristotle, but one of the major philosophers (Plato?) has very little evidence of existing. All we have are accounts from his disciples.

>>17686238
Socrates is who you mean. The only accounts we have of him are from his students Plato and Xenophon, and the plays of Aristophanes - only one of which purports to be historical (Xenophon) and all of which contradict and are highly partisan.

>>17686329
Ah right, thank you.

>>17672165
So you're not suggesting Christianity, for example, is the work of a demon - but that a Christian 'demon' may be deceiving Christians, and a Islamic 'demon' deceiving Muslims and so forth?

>>17672165
I believe gods exist
But I follow none
I make my own path, live my way, and do what I believe to be right
If any God is truly merciful and kind, they will accept my choices and embrace me for being a mortal brave enough to live his own life
If no God can accept a mortal such as myself who tried to live an honest life, then there were none deserving of my worship

>>17686372
Part time god here. I approve.

(Don't worship me FYI.)

>>17686391
Kek

>>17686444
Part time god here. Can confirm am not Egyptian.

>>17686372
Nice paraphrasing Marcus Aurelius without citing the source fgt.

>>17673549
who are you quoting?

>>17687456
He is quoting him you idiot.

>>17672165
the creator of this universe, is the devil.

>>17687497
who?
nobody in this thread has said that

>>17673538
you have proved yourself to not know a shit about gnosticism

There is a way to not worship a false deity easily.

In my belief I do believe in a 'God', however I make it clear to what I'm giving praise to.

>Christian
>Give praise to God, mind has the name Yahweh in mind
>End up praising Yahweh in the end

Get how it works?