Roswell UFO Incident Discussion

>>17494687
We probed it up the ass. The AYY LMAOS have been raging over it ever since and getting revenge with their own anal attacks on humans

>>17494687
the alien story has been pretty much debunked. no real evidence, so many inconsistent witnesses and others who were shown to be lying or changing their story multiple times etc

>>17494687
>George Noory
That was legendary newsman George Knapp mane.

>>17494687

The only evidence available is the initial press release, and the testimony of people that claim they were involved. Due to the absolutely ridiculous handling of the event by the military, I hold the opinion that the event happened pretty much the way Maj. Marcel said it did, and that they did find an alien craft and have been covering it up ever since.

The "weather balloon" story they came up with is just stupid, and it's completely unreasonable to believe that anyone could possibly mistake it for something alien. Balsa wood, foil, tape, nylon line, are all easily recognized and couldn't possibly give the impression of being alien technology.

We'll never get the full story on this one.

>>17496074

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/what_really_happened_at_roswell

marcell and other "witnesses" had major problems with their stories and reliability

Nobody had ever heard of Roswell until the 80's when the story appeared in a ufo book. Since then it's turned into some bullshit fairytale that everyone suddenly remembers.

>>17496105

From the article:

> Q: There are two researchers (Schmitt and Randle) who are presently saying that the debris in General Ramey’s office had been switched and that you men had a weather balloon there in its place.
>A: Oh Bull! That material was never switched!
>Q: So what you're saying is that the material in General Ramey’s office was the actual debris brought in from Roswell?
>A: That’s absolutely right.

And you don't have a problem with this assertion?

That's not a reasonable argument to make on their part. There isn't anything on a project Mogul / weather balloon that could possibly be misconstrued as alien in origin.

That source is about as biased and unreasonable as a Christian trying to defend the bible.

This is from an affadavit by the same dude in 91' saying that it was indeed a cover up. : http://roswellproof.homestead.com/dubose.html#anchor_3254

>(7) The material shown in the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon. The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press.

I find it more reasonable to believe that an alien crash did happen, and was covered up, than a common balloon could ever be mistaken by untold numbers of senior military dudes as anything other than man made.

>>17496191

The story was all over the planet in 47' when it happened.

But then they said it was a balloon, and that was the end of it. It's not like they had the internet back then...

>>17496105
>.org
>.organization
>csi
I'm not Roswell fan but you're rustling my tinfoil hat.

>>17496207
Show me proof it was "all over the planet"

>>17496210
the facts stand regardless. marcell's story changed mutiple times and he lied about his background. glenn dennis was also shown to be a liar.

>>17496264
>the facts
There are 2 versions of this story. I could pick the opposite side and say you're wrong according to the facts.

>>17496232
Here's some examples: http://www.roswellfiles.com/Articles/PressReports.htm

It went out over the wire, resulting in a barrage of calls to the base.

>>17496264

Marcell never changed his story, or lied about his background, as much as he was lied about by debunkers. Regardless, he is but one of the many involved in this incident and cover up.

The facts of the matter are as follows:

1. The U.S. Air Force was so incompetent that not a single serving member at Roswell Army Airfield could distinguish the common materials used to construct a weather / mogul balloon from an alien aircraft.

OR...

2. Senior officials in the U.S. Air Force were so incompetent that they couldn't come up with a more believable cover story than the "found weather balloon" story.

2 seems far more reasonable to me.

Anyone that believes the balloon story after learning exactly what they were made of is incompetent, and their opinion should be discounted wholesale.

>>17496414
>In The Roswell Incident, Marcel stated, "Actually, this material may have looked like tinfoil and balsa wood, but the resemblance ended there […] They took one picture of me on the floor holding up some of the less-interesting metallic debris […] The stuff in that one photo was pieces of the actual stuff we found. It was not a staged photo."[42] Timothy Printy points out that the material Marcel positively identified as being part of what he recovered is material that skeptics and UFO advocates agree is debris from a balloon device.[12] After that fact was pointed out to him, Marcel changed his story to say that that material was not what he recovered.[12] Skeptics like Robert Todd argued that Marcel had a history of embellishment and exaggeration, such as claiming to have been a pilot and having received five Air Medals for shooting down enemy planes, claims that were all found to be false, and skeptics feel that his evolving Roswell story was simply another instance of this tendency to fabricate.[43]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident#Competing_accounts

>>17494687

Why would they release this shit to the press?

The way it works is that they had a public affairs officer, who was a lieutenant, who was responsible for giving the press information the base, and the Air Force in general, wanted released to the public. The dude is at the bottom of the ladder, and is going to give the press what his commander tells him to give the press, outside of some standard shit the commander would outline for him that could be released without his approval. This story is HUGE, and the probability that the dude released this without going through his commander is practically zero. This means that his commander KNEW the story was going to be released, which in turn means that HIS commander knew the story was going to be released as no military leader would release some shit like that without first getting command approval.

My question is why the fuck would they release that info at all? Why not keep it covered up completely?

Either they released it because:

1. They knew the story would be leaked by civilians if they didn't, and they wanted to maintain control of what was leaked?
2. They found a classified man made object and used the flying disk story to cover it up?


Why release the information at all?

They didn't say SHIT about the nuke program until we dropped that shit on the Japs, and this despite the testing that took place and was observed by a lot of civilians that saw and felt the impact of above ground testing.

>>17496510

None of those sources are even remotely reasonable, as they all focus on trying to turn people into liars, instead of how ridiculous and unreasonable it is to believe any of the materials could be mistaken for anything other than what they were....man made.

>>17495737
besides the Ramey memo. The paper in the guys hand in OP's newspaper article can be blown up and zoomed in on and it mentions a crashed disk with crash victims bodies being transported somewhere. I bet he feels really dumb now.

File: Mogul bullshit.jpg (80KB, 540x845px) Image search: [Google]

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pic related: an example of the components of the mogul balloon that the Air Force claims was mistaken for a flying disk.

Construction materials: Standard balloons used by bases and airfields everywhere to check wind speed and direction at altitude, nylon line to string it all together (which is similar to the nylon line used in parachutes), metal eyelets used to anchor the radar reflectors, radar reflectors made from standard foil, tape, and balsa wood (similar to the same shit used to make box kites and model airplanes), sensors to measure altitude. Hell, some of these things had "if found, please return to" notes attached to their sensors so that their data could be retrieved if lost.

There is no part of this balloon that could possibly be mistaken for an alien craft, and it's completely unreasonable to believe that the Air Force wouldn't recognize it for exactly what it was, a man made balloon system.

So why did they use this as an excuse, and what were they covering up, if not an alien craft?

>>17494687
>https://youtu.be/bgUHA2S67VM
Why is the co founding race of the council of 5 races not one of the 5 races?

Could it have been a crashed aircraft based off the nazi ufo?

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>>17496778
Pic related is the Horten flying wing glider developed in the early 30's.

I don't think it's probable that the Air Force wouldn't have simply said they misidentified a standard aircraft, if that's what they found, regardless if it was classified or not.

I also don't think it's probable that they would misidentify a standard aircraft, as they are all built using the same kind of structural systems, and use the same kind of control surfaces to control the axis needed to maintain controlled flight.

I just can't think of any reasonable explanation for the press release stating they found a flying disk, if that's not what was found.

>>17496594
That pic was debunked. like most other of the "evidence" being presented in this thread. a quick google search can be a powerful tool

Problem for most of the believers here is that nobody had ever informed most of the air force about these damn weather balloons. Hell, they'd likely lost Captain Mantell to chasing one of these damn balloons, and even then the people on project mogul still hadn't bothered to inform anybody. As for the people arguing it didn't look man-made, please remember it came down in pieces and they had no clue as to the original shape or purpose.

>>17497108
>pilots aren't familiar with launching balloons to determine wind direction and speed at altitude

Right....because the wind fairies give the intel officers the information they need for pre flight briefings.

So which piece of the mogul balloon, exactly, do you believe could be mistaken as alien technology?

Was it the foil radar reflector? Surely the aluminum foil couldn't be remotely similar to the same kind of foil used in candy, or cigarette packaging.

Maybe it was the nylon cord used to lash it all together? The same kind used to make parachute suspension lines, which every pilot would be familiar with due to the fact that they got issued chutes with every flight.

Perhaps it was the balsa wood that was commonly used for kites, and model aircraft?

No, the balloon story is simply not reasonable, because there isn't anything on that balloon that could ever be misidentified as "alien".

>>17494687
>George Noory just had some guests

Can't tell the difference between Knapp and Noory!

>>17497053
it wasn't debunked. anyone can recreate the results roody poo. debunkers make more unsubstantiated claims than most believers do. Being a skeptic is great, blindly debunking everything is just as dumb as blindly believing every UFO story.

>>17496778
Seconded. Ive recently stumbled upon this theory. Im not discounting aliens or government being secretive pricks with my money... But i think its a miiiiiighty big coincidence that the reich was testing this technology, gets spanked, robbed, and destroyed, and then ten years later... A ufo (possible foo fighter) crashes outside a military base.

where is the real evidence? why did marcell change his story so many times? why did the mortician glenn dennis lie about bodies and make up a fake "nurse" to add to his tale

>>17498601
The real evidence is the initial press release, which proves they found a flying disk.

The real evidence of a cover up is the fact that they changed their story and claimed they misidentified a weather balloon as a flying disk. That's just unreasonable, and on the bottom of the probability scale.

The real evidence that the government is STILL covering that shit up is the fact that in the 90's they, once again, tried to blame it on weather / mogul balloons, which again, is just ridiculous and completely unreasonable.

These three facts corroborate Maj. Marcel, Lt. Haut, and Gen. Dubose, and those are the 3 key personnel that were among the closest to the incident.

>>17498715
you never addressed any of my questions. if it was a real alien spacecraft then why did so many of the "key witnesses" lie about or change parts of their story? marcell couldnt even remeber the year this all allegedly happened when ufologists first interviewed him in the late 70s.

once you address those issues we can discuss why the balloon story came out

>>17498757
Let's look at some reasons that witness testimony could change over time.

First, there's memory recall issues. This can impact the details of any given incidents, but not the incident as a whole. A good interviewer can help an individual recall more information by asking the right questions, while shitty ones won't have the skills to draw out the same kind of information.

Second, there's the willingness to participate in any given interview. Some people are simply not willing to give out info at the time of an interview, so they leave out information, or intentionally lie about a given incident. Reasons can be for personal reasons, or for security obligations, or even because they are simply afraid to speak. As time passes, these people may become willing to finally tell the truth about an incident, as best they can. In the case of Roswell, you have a combination of both security issues, and a desire to avoid the shitstorms of personal attacks from debunkers that try to attack the reputation of anyone that offers UFO testimony.

Last, some people are simply liars that try to jump on a bandwagon. Others are intentionally trying to cast doubt on any given subject. The subject of UFO's, and especially Roswell, has both kinds of people.

We have testimony on video, and / or on sworn affidavits, from 3 men that were an integral part of the incident, that claim a flying disk was indeed captured and intentionally covered up by the government. Maj Marcell, Lt Haut, and Gen Dubose all went to their grave without changing their story. This, combined with the initial press release, is all the evidence we need.

As for the rest of the witnesses interview later on? Some are telling the truth, some are telling what they believe to be the truth, some are lying for the hell of it, and others are paid to lie to make the rest look bad and cast doubt on the entire story.

>>17498820
Marcell and Dubose both ended up being adamant that the debris in the famous pic was not switched beforehand, the debris that was clearly a manmade object.

Haut changed his story multiple tines, at first he said he had not seen any akien bodies but later (after he helped open the UFO museum in roswell i must add) he added numerous wild embellishments, he also supported the now thoroughly debunked claims of glenn dennis.

so why keep trotting out these three men whose testimony has so many issues and inconsistencies?

>>17498928
>Marcell and Dubose both ended up being adamant that the debris in the famous pic was not switched beforehand

No, they didn't. They maintained that what they found was not any kind of balloon till the time of their death.

Now tell us exactly which part of the Mogul balloon train could be misidentified as a flying disk by any reasonable person, let alone a team of reasonable people from the Air Force.

You can't. Nobody can.

Because there isn't any part of the Mogul balloon, or any other balloon train, that could possibly be seen as a flying disk.

It happened, much like it was reported. There were 2 crafts though, one ditched near Corona Nm.

Military freaked. Majestic clamped down the narrative. Time travelers from 24,000 years in earth's future. Big blue-eyed humans. Altruistic mission to save all of us. Massive fail.

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>>17499057

All I know is that the probability of misidentifying a weather balloon, or any other type of balloon train, as a flying saucer is like almost zero. Especially when that assessment is going to be evaluated and confirmed by multiple Air Force personnel.

A balloon of any type is just not a reasonable object to mistake for a flying saucer / disk.....unless it was a balloon carrying a flying saucer / disk.

>>17494687
Could it be that the military initially came up with the balloon story to make it seem like a ufo cover up but in reality they were trying to cover up something else? Something politically embarrassing.

>>17499145
The only issue is that they DID find something near Roswell, and if it was some kind of classified aircraft, missile, or whatever, they probably would have admitted to it in the 90's when they readdressed the issue, but they didn't. They stuck with the "weather balloon" story and tried to offer "proof" to support their claim, but their "proof" only made their claim less reasonable, probable, and far less likely to be true.

In the summer of 47', when this happened, there weren't a lot of classified projects that were very "high speed", so to speak, as the technology was still at its infancy. We were still studying captured German technology, like the V-1 and V-2 rockets, jet propulsion systems, working on our nuclear program, and trying to develop new and improved radar systems. Any of these things could have used to replace the "weather balloon" excuse, but none were.

I hold the position that the government stuck with the weather balloon story just so they don't get caught lying yet again.

There's an excellent book titled "Area 51: A Secret History" (or something like that) which provides a factual history of the facility with interviews of former high ranking employees.

Towards the end of the book, (where it starts to get more into conspiracy theory stuff rather than spyplane testing and incidents) the author interviews a former engineer who worked there and what he saw while there were the "aliens" from the Roswell crash. However he actually explains that the aliens were really handicapped Russian children deformed made to look like aliens in order to terrorise the american population (Stalin had heard about the War of the Worlds radio incident.). Furthermore the crashed spaceship was a Russian creation with help from none other than the Horton brothers who went missing after ww2. On the same note the theory if I remember correctly also states that Mengele was involved in deforming the children before he went off to Brazil.

>>17500567

The issue with that theory is that the Horten flying wing, and every other aircraft ever made, uses easily recognizable control surfaces to maintain controlled flight, and easily recognizable propulsion systems. This was 47', and NOBODY had any decent tech that couldn't be easily recognized as man made tech.

>>17500639
It was 2 years after the war. The Russians could have made a new mixture of materials to cover the craft

>>17500682

Regardless of what they did, there would still need to be control surfaces for pitch, roll, and yaw, plus the trim tabs for each, and a propulsion system. All of those features are easily recognizable as human.

>>17500790
It was disguised under the body

>>17500567
her book was great up until that last bit of retarded nonsense

>>17501865
That's not the way control surfaces work, anon. Unless they are exposed to the air, they can't manipulate the air, and if they can't manipulate the air, you can't have controlled flight, which means you won't be able to fly the thing.

In order to deliver a non-flying "saucer", the Soviets would have had to use some kind of long range aircraft, or balloon system, and while possible, it's just not probable. And even then, you still have the issue of standard craftsmanship signatures and materials that would make it recognizable as human, and not alien. It's not like the Soviets had any kind of materials, or manufacturing techniques, that nobody else had at the time, all of which are easily recognized as human.

The Soviet theory is more probably than the balloon theory, I'll give you that, but that's not saying much...

>>17502330
I'm not an expert so apologies. I'd love to think somehow i ts true. It could be an ICBM that went askew?

>>17504214
Nobody had the capability to construct an ICBM until the 50's, and all missiles and rockets have very unique signatures that can be easily identified.

the coverup was that it wasnt a normal weather balloon but a top secret balloon that was intended to detect soviet nuclear tests

everything else is unsubstaniated rumors and lies by people who were there or claimed to have been there

>>17505566
First, no balloon is constructed with any material that could be misidentified as alien in construction, including the mogul balloons. Research what they were made with, and you find common materials that would be familiar to even a child, let alone the U.S. Air Force.

Second, the probability that the intelligence officer of the 509th (Maj Marcell), the public affairs officer (Lt. Haut), and the deputy commander for the 8th Air Force (Col Dubose) would ALL lie about a cover up all the way till the time they died is almost zero, as they would have no motivation to maintain any lie.

The balloon story is simply not reasonable, and doesn't hold up to any level of scrutiny at all.

>>17505940
none of the recovered materials were remotely "exotic" and the witnesses who claimed it was have no evidence and/or were shown to be liars.

they had a motive to lie - to lie about fake aliens and saucers for their own gain and profit (in the case of Haut especially)

if this story was so important then why did it take 30 years for ufo "researchers" to rediscover it and write their own version (roswell has like 4 versions of what happened and where based on which book you read)

i guess Marcel had forgotten about the aliens he had found when he was repairing TVs in Loiusiana w
until Stanton Friedman showed up asking questions. he couldnt even remeber the exact year the alleged "incident" happened when he was first interviewed

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>>17505943
There is no evidence that any of those men tried to exploit the incident for personal gain, but instead, intentionally remained silent until well into old age. Lt. Haut, as an example, filled out a sworn affidavit before he died, but demanded that it not be released to the public until after his death.


While there have been many people to come out and tell their tale, some of which are bullshitting, the fact remains that there was a command approved press release issued saying that a flying saucer was recovered on a ranch by a rancher, who then told the sheriff about it, who then called the Air Force, who then sent a detail out to the ranch to recover the disk, and upon investigation, sent the disk to higher headquarters.

It is not reasonable to assume that any kind of weather / research / mogul balloon could possibly result in this press release, or in the actions and reactions cited in the press release.

It is far more reasonable to believe, and probable, that the rancher DID find something that resembled a flying saucer, and that upon investigation, the Air Force agreed, resulting in the press release, and the actions cited. The issue at hand, however, is that the Air Force has never offered any reasonable substitute for the "flying saucer" they claimed to have recovered, despite the fact they have had ample opportunity to do so. This, combined with the witness testimony we have about the incident, is enough evidence to suggest that the initial report is far more credible than any subsequent claims made by the Air Force since that time.

It didn't happened.
Everything looks like a hoax to put some place on the map.

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>>17494687

So, back in the day they used what we're called "disk microphones", the purpose of project mogul was to put microphones into the high altitude "sound channel" that occurs due to temperature difference. In this area, much like the one under the ocean, sound is trapped between layers of hotter and colder air and can travel a much greater distance before losing its sound energy. The microphones were centered inside of geometric shapes so as to determine direction of incoming sounds. The mogul project utilized a series of balloons equipped with microphones, the purpose was to detect nuclear blasts, if a nuke was detonated anywhere in the world the sound would be intercepted and scientists would have used simple calculus to triangulate where the blast originated using the difference in time at which the microphones detected the sound. No aliens at the roswell crash, look up kecksburg incident though. A craft matching the description of "die glocke" crashed circa 1957 iirc.

>>17506032
Haut was one of the founders of the UFO meuseum in roswell and had clear financial incentives to embellish the story.

marcell and haut both are proven to have lied about various things. not to mention glenn dennis' known lies. how can we believe any of their statements when they have been shown to have lied about other things?

>>17506081
kecksburg has been clearly debunked. "die glocke" is also exaggerated mythology

>>17506103
That museum was founded in the 90's, when Haut was well into old age, and this is evidence that he did not attempt to profit from the incident, as if that was his intent, he could have easily done it back in the 50's-60's when he was still young. Yet there are no books, or movies, about Roswell made by Lt. Haut.

>marcell and haut both are proven to have lied about various things

And yet their story is corroborated by a command approved press release that has never been properly explained away.

>It is far more reasonable to believe, and probable, that the rancher DID find something that resembled a flying saucer, and that upon investigation, the Air Force agreed, resulting in the press release, and the actions cited. The issue at hand, however, is that the Air Force has never offered any reasonable substitute for the "flying saucer" they claimed to have recovered, despite the fact they have had ample opportunity to do so. This, combined with the witness testimony we have about the incident, is enough evidence to suggest that the initial report is far more credible than any subsequent claims made by the Air Force since that time.

>>17506104
Sources? Because I have seen progressions of this non-existent tech.

>>17506104
Agree.

>>17506136
what progressions of tech are you speaking of?

>>17506141
I don't report to shills

>>17506146
Well that says everything about your claims

>>17506149
Post some sources about kecksburg or die glocke being debunked to prove you aren't a disinfo. All my claims check out, you are just here to disuade and disrupt, anyone who does any reading about project mogul can verify. V2 rockets being turned into spacecraft was just a cover for the real tech being worked on, the V2 rockets were simple weapons. Werner Von Braun himself made plenty of nods to what they were actually working on under project paperclip.

>>17505940
Hey champ, if you keep on repeating the same things over and over again they just might become true!

>>17506285
Seems to be your approach, sport.

Try to argue away the press release without sounding like an idiot.

>>17506131
>command approved press release
Got a link to that? All I can find are news stories and no official press release

>>17506295

What exactly are you looking for?

>>17506324
The command approved press release.

>>17506343

I still don't understand what you're looking for.

The press release in the Roswell Daily Record IS the official command approved press release, just as the later retraction is the command approved press release to deny the original.

If you're looking for some kind of army press release form with signatures and such, you'll probably find it right next to the retraction form.

>>17506384
Considering we don't have the actual report it's impossible to know what they actually said.

And considering how the press works they likely twisted the truth to create a better story.

If that is the best proof you have then there is really nothing to discuss.

>>17506430

That's the best you've got?

Using that logic, we can then discount the retraction of the original story. Unless, of course, you can find the actual retraction report that is...

You're right, we don't have anything further to discuss.

>>17506457
a hastily released and then retracted press release is your only proof.

your only proof of an alien spaceship crashing to earth and the government hiding it

and you expect us to believe this all because of a press release that was later retracted and the anecdotal statements of several men who were shown to be liars and/or hoaxers

>>17506524
That is, indeed, all we have.

A press release, the ridiculous retraction, and human testimony that corroborates the initial press release.

I'd simply ask that people study the incident and come to their own conclusions.

I have, and I believe the men involved.

File: Ramey at Ft Worth.jpg (43KB, 386x546px) Image search: [Google]

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Pic related: BG Roger Ramey, commander of the 8th AAF and his chief of staff, Col Tommy Dubose

Note that the material in this image is purported to be the same kind of material found on the ranch, and investigated and recovered by Air Force personnel from Roswell Army Airfield, who then sent it up to Ft. Worth

Is it reasonable to believe that any sane adult could possibly be confused as to the origin of this material? You can clearly see the balsa wood used as a frame for the radar foil, and the dark object by the foot of BG Ramey is the remains of a neoprene / rubber balloon.

It's absolutely unreasonable to believe that this material could be misidentified as anything other than terrestrial in origin, and yet that is what the Air Force would have us believe. This is clear evidence that the Air Force is lying about the object they recovered in Roswell, and it fully corroborates the cover up story told by men like Maj. Marcell, and Col Dubose himself.

>>17496594
the only people who saw anything like 'crashed disks' were people preconditioned to believe in UFOS

everybody else who saw the blow-up without context couldn't make heads or tails of it.

>>17496663
>>lists materials of MOGUL project to debunk explanation
>>matches exactly with original report of what Mac Brazel found on his ranch
>>only people who claim to see bent saucer-craft start telling their shit decades after actual first eyewitnesses are dead

lmao try harder.

>>17498715
yeah how about Mac Brazel, the guy who found the debris on his property? how about his family members who helped him clean up the debris after it sat there for several days?

oh wait if you considered Brazel a witness, you'd have to accept his account of extremely lightweight debris, barely enough to fill the back of a pickup.

and that would make you look stupid.

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>>17507365
>>17507376
>see's exactly what the Air Force claims was mistaken for a flying saucer
>defends them regardless

So which is it, the foil or the sticks that would fool you? Based on your posts, I'd say both...

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Pic related: "Good job, Major! We'll send this alien technology to the General right away!"

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>>17495731
Kek

>>17495750
Oh, sorry m8. Wasn't paying attention.

>>17496191
But..but the military bullied them into silence.

>>17496674
Maybe they rage quit after they couldn't get that homo sapien booty.

>>17497313
Sorry! :( They sound so much alike to me.

Found this
http://www.openminds.tv/test-confirms-roswell-debris-733/10835
>from 2011
http://altereddimensions.net/2014/professional-geologist-frank-kimbler-find-unusual-artifacts-roswell-crash-debris-field
>from 2014
>geologist finds shit around crash site
>Frank Kimbler
>"Kimbler has made several highly unusual discoveries including unusual artifacts and aerial photographic evidence of disturbed ground in and around the debris field."

You fucks will probably tell me this has been debunked and faked as well.

File: Amazing alien technology.jpg (208KB, 700x399px) Image search: [Google]

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>>17507735
>You fucks will probably tell me this has been debunked and faked as well.

Remember that the idiot debunkers expect people to believe that pic related is the shit supposedly found in the desert and mistaken for a flying saucer...because the government would never lie to us.

>>17507422
>>17507797
Excellent job continuing to ignore Mac Brazel's statements which clearly indicate MOGUL debris. Keep blubbering about that idiot Marcel, you'll be a pro at Roswell bullshit in no time.

>>17507892
>probably actually believes that post

>>17495737
>so many inconsistent witnesses and others who were shown to be lying or changing their story multiple times etc

There were dozens, if not hundreds of witness accounts, soldiers, firemen, medical people, farmers, neighbours, by-passers, including people who had no connection, no way of collaborating, or exchanging information, give a consistent story of seeing an alien aircraft, an actual alien walking about, as well as at least two more dead or injured.
Sure, there must've been some inconsistent accounts, and people who weren't there claiming they were, and others changing their stories. That kind of "noise data" is always there, because nobody's memory is perfect and everyone's got their own motivations. But there is still the actual story that can be constructed from the overlapping similarities present in these accounts, that can't be a coincidence.

>>17508031
Yeah. This.

May I remind you people that this was an era where they did not have telephones? They flock to any part of town where there's interesting shit and word spreads quick. It took like what? 5 days before the military were notified? That's a long time for the whole town to glimpse at the alien spacecraft. It was towns folk and kids who found the other crash sites, because it wasn't just one area. The main crash site was as long as 1/3 of a mile. It disrupted busy lives, especially the ranchers who couldn't bring their herd through the shit.

And their testimonies were identical. The look and feel of the material. The size of the crash site. Where exactly it was located. How it looked. What the aliens looked like. And how many bodies there were.

It's kind of like that mass UFO sighting I think in Mexico. Same description. Same disinfo. People were separated by miles and they all noted the same location of the UFOs and the same time they appeared. And "experts" have given all sorts of reasons why they weren't UFOs.

>>17506994
Why are you so autistic about this subject?

>>17507797
Ok so if that material is part of the coverup why did Marcell lie and claim it was the material recovered when he is supposedly one of the ones who claimed it was aliens?

Surely if he was one of the ones pushing the whole alien story he would have agreed and pointed out that the material was not the material actually discovered.

>>17499081
>confirmed by multiple Air Force personnel.
Where?

And later declassification revealed it to be a spy balloon, which is why the military acted so suspiciously with their official stories.

>>17494687
The entire truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJpyX514cUg&sns=em

>>17508156
>Believing anything Steven Greer says
>I can totally communicate with Aliens and regularly have them appear out in the desert for me!
>Pls give me money so I can reveal the truth about government hiding aliens!!!
The guy could literally show the world that aliens are real, but instead he charges people money to go out into the desert and see them. Or asks for money to help disclose the information the government are hiding, even though just having the aliens show up for us would be the push needed to get the government to admit to their lies.
In fact the aliens themselves could disclose all that information.

>>17508031
there are not nearly that many witnesses and many supposed witnessess were shown to be liars.

even acceoting that, witness hearsay 30 years after the fact is not good enough evidence to support a claim about alien spaceships and aliens

extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

>>17508141
Marcel, and everyone else, was told about the cover story, and directed to support it, and that's exactly what they did. It was only later in life, long after the drastic changes in government took place, that people dare speak openly about this event.

>>17508142
>revealed it to be a spy balloon,

So which part of the debris shown, by BG Ramey, would fool a reasonable adult, let alone the Air Force, into believing it was of alien design and construction? Is it the neoprene balloon remnants? The sticks used to reinforce the foil?

The balloon story is simply unreasonable, and it doesn't hold up to ANY kind of scrutiny.

>extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

What is "extraordinary" about the alien visitation claim? The same shit we're made of can be found everywhere else in the cosmos. There's billions of stars, like ours, in our galaxy alone, let alone the cosmos as a whole. There's billions of stars that are older than ours by thousands, millions, and billions of years, meaning any intelligence that developed in their systems could be billions of years ahead of us. So what, exactly, is so "extraordinary" about being visited by an alien civilization?

The only thing "extraordinary" about that claim is the fact that people think it can't happen because WE can't do it ourselves, and that's not reasonable.

>>17508864
And yet nothing you said provides any evidence of these claims. The Army Aircorp knew it was a very earthly balloon from the start. The press release was a misguided and premature hiccup that was later (correctly) redacted.

>>17508864
Please provide a citation where they said it was of alien design and construction.

Your own "proof" is a news paper, and the media are known for twisting the truth to make a story more appealing and sell more papers.

They probably said something like
>We investigated the "saucer" blah blah blah and the "saucer" was moved etc etc
And the paper went "Right, they said saucer! lets run with that!"

File: Debris at Ft Worth.jpg (2MB, 1600x1464px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1600x1464px

>>17508870
Pic related: all the evidence any reasonable person needs to know the Air Force lied about what was recovered. Period. Note that this picture was taken in Ft. Worth, which means not only could they not identify foil, sticks, rubber and tape, but they flew said foil, sticks and rubber all the way from Roswell to Ft. Worth, just to show their higher HQ this foil, sticks and rubber.

Nonsense.

If you want to talk about "extraordinary" claims, it's extraordinary that people actually ate this bullshit fed to them by the Air Force.

>>17508938

The original press release was never disputed, and the Air Force has never called out any given journalist, paper, or radio station as having intentionally filed a misleading story.

>>17508993
>the Air Force has never called out any given journalist, paper, or radio station as having intentionally filed a misleading story.
And if they had you would just use that as proof of a coverup.

You tinfools are all the same, any evidence against the conspiracy is actually evidence for the conspiracy in your pathetic minds.

>>17508993
Your assumption is they didn't know what the material was and that is why it was sent off.

They probably knew what the material was, but weren't sure what it had come from, and so sent it off to their superiors.

File: Got syphilis.jpg (27KB, 226x346px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 226x346px

>>17509034
>And if they had

If they had, this thread wouldn't exist, because they could have just shown the original story that was "misquoted", or identified the source of the "misquote", but they didn't, because the press printed exactly what they were told to print.


>>17509037

They're not going to waste their time sending known expendables, like trashed balloons and radar reflectors, to higher HQ for identification, because they wouldn't need to, as it's the same materials used at Roswell by their weather teams to monitor conditions there, and at airfields all across the country. And yet, that is what is on display in the Ramey photo's, and that is what the Air Force is claiming prompted the flying saucer press release, which is not just unreasonable, but ludicrous.

So you have to ask yourself why the Air Force lied about the garbage in the Ramey photo? Was it to cover up a supposed research project using balloons, or was it to cover up the recovery of a flying saucer?

Surely the government wouldn't deliberately cover up something like this: pic related

It wasnt a typical "weather balloon" it was a classifed Top Secret project. It doesnt matter what it was made of, Roseell AAF was not privy to what was going on with Project Mogul so theres no reason the personell assigned there would have known what exactly it was.

>>17509181
>They're not going to waste their time sending known expendables, like trashed balloons and radar reflectors, to higher HQ for identification

How about this
>Hey HQ we have what looks like a weather balloon or something crashed out here, but we are not sure of it's origin
>HQ here better send it to us, could be foreign

Ask yourself this. If it really was a saucer, and they were going to bother covering it up, do you honestly think they would have released a press report saying it was a saucer in the first place?

File: Train 2.gif (29KB, 540x845px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 540x845px

>>17509188
>It wasnt a typical "weather balloon" it was a classifed Top Secret project...

The classified sensors were indeed sent aloft using the same kind of balloons used to collect weather data, and they were equipped with the same kind of radar reflectors. The only difference between the mogul balloons and any given standard weather balloon system is the number of balloons used to get the sensors up to altitude, and the sensors themselves.

Pic related: shows the balloon train, radar reflectors, and classified sensors at the bottom

>do you honestly think they would have released a press report saying it was a saucer in the first place?

I think that if the event would have happened on a military base, they wouldn't have said anything. However, since this event occurred on civilian property, had significant civilian involvement, and was apparently the first of its kind, they might have felt the need to release the info in an attempt to garner initial credibility with the locals, and to control the message that was put out. Maybe they felt that it would be easier to admit it up front, and then claim it was a mistaken identity, then it would be to simply deny the whole thing when the civilian press got a hold of it later on.

However, since the actual time line of this incident is unknown, and there has obviously been an intentional effort to deceive the public made by the Air Force, it's hard to make a viable assessment IMO.

>>17509294
That makes no sense though.

>We need to control the message that the press puts out
>Lol just tell them it's a flying saucer!

>>17509358
Yeah you use a false story if you don't want to advertise that you have a nuclear weapon detonation detection system. Did you know that the CIA coined the term "conspiracy theorist"?

>>17509358
>>We need to control the message that the press puts out
>>Lol just tell them it's a flying saucer!

It doesn't make sense to me, either, anon.

Some speculated that they intentionally leaked the story to draw attention to the ranch site, while they continued clean up operations at another undisclosed site. I don't know, though. There were certainly factors involved that we are unaware of, and they might have lead them to the course of action they selected. That, or they were just incompetent as fuck.

Regardless, the balloon story shows the complete lack of creativity that existed at the senior leader decision making level. They could have come up with any number of viable options to explain away the object they recovered, but they chose one that doesn't hold up AT ALL under any kind of reasonable scrutiny.

The follow up investigation the Air Force did in the 90's just made them look worse, as they had carte blanche to blame it on any number of classified projects, but they stuck with the balloon story and tried to make it stick.....which it didn't, and never will.

>>17508197
This.

Greer is a fraud.

>>17508031
Thousands of people think they see Elvis every year

Doesn't make it true, people are stupid

>>17508069
>And their testimonies were identical. The look and feel of the material. The size of the crash site. Where exactly it was located. How it looked. What the aliens looked like. And how many bodies there were.

None of what you said is true. The UFO "researchers" can not agree on the exact crash location or even the number of alleged bodies found. There are at least three ranches that each claim to be the true crash site and the number of bodies and even how many crashed "spacecraft" there were changes depending on which Ufologist's book you are reading at the moment.

>>17507651
paulmao

>>17510389
>The U.S. Air Force can't agree on the exact type of balloon that supposedly crashed, because at first it was a "weather balloon", then it was a "mogul" balloon, and the "aliens" were supposedly research dummies, that didn't exist until the 50's, but then they said that they didn't get accused of finding "aliens" till the 50's, after saying this incident wasn't an issue until the 80's after ufologists started asking questions etc, etc....

The government isn't any better.

File: Only an ammo dump folks.jpg (107KB, 546x1010px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 546x1010px

Meanwhile, 2 years earlier at a place now known as Trinity: pic related.

Surely the government doesn't lie or cover shit up from the public.

File: Whoops.jpg (332KB, 1004x1640px) Image search: [Google]

332KB, 1004x1640px

>nothing to see here people, move along...

>>17512664
>>17512685
The problem here is that the initial story was a coverup to hide the fact they were testing top secret weapons. It was only later that people found out what was going on.

Now if you apply that logic to Roswell, why would the first thing they tell the press be "GUISE WE DUN FOUND SUM ALIUMS!!" if they were actually lying to cover up the fact they found aliens?

>>17512759

All I'm trying to do is highlight the fact that the government can, and will, lie their ass off when they think it's in their best interests, and when they can get away with it. People seem to ignore, or forget this fact.

The Manhattan project involved thousands of people, and yet most didn't know exactly what they were working on. Classification, compartmentalization, and ruthless enforcement of security breaches proved capable enough to silence thousands, and to prevent the world from knowing what we were doing until we bombed the shit out of the Japs.

>why would the first thing they tell the press be "GUISE WE DUN FOUND SUM ALIUMS!!"

To initially placate the civilians that were involved, which would then make it easier to claim they made a mistake. Sadly, without a proper time line, we'll never know.