Gods and Magic/magick

Nobody has ever believed in "inner gods" in the history of mankind before the hippie and new age movements came along.

>>17386957
The thing is: If you can pick any god, regardless of if it's real or not, you get the power not fomr this god; but from your faith. Your faith makes it real.

On a second aception to this rule, maybe by having faith in a random god, you allow the mystical energy//creator//whatever of this unieverse to adopt this form to speak to you. That would make more sense than "lol i want to worship glykon" and suddently glykon exists.

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>>17386923
Ooo a fun one.
There are several different ways to approach this one.
First is the through the "appendix lamed". Gods are archetypal, they are an anthropomorphic personification of a series of traits you find desirable. And by invoking those gods your attempting to emulate in yourself the set of traits.
https://youtu.be/R95A1jDwX_8
.

>atheist
>magic
REAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLYYYYYYY DOE?
Choose fucking one mate. I'll even help for once:
One of these choices clearly doesn't fucking exist.

>>17386923
He is saying that you chose who is controlling your fate. In the case of an atheist, you believe that you are in control of your destiny. You are your own God.

>>17386923
OP you need to go ask about Liber Null and some introductory chaos magic books over in /omg/.

>>17386957
literally everyone whos ever believed in a god has believed in an inner god.

>>17387197
why does magic necessitate faith in a deity?
If you mean to imply magic comes from a deity, I would ask for a source for this opinion.
If you say atheists cant believe in magic, I would urge you to look up the definition of atheist, the two things are unrelated. You may be confusing atheist with skeptic.

>>17387270
I know what atheist means. I just briefly forgot most people who call themselves atheist are just fedora wearers who haven't analyzed enough reality and facts to come to a logical conclusion.

Woops.

>>17387311
As I said, you are confusing atheist and skeptic.
An atheist is simply someone who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of gods.

The process you are describing is a skeptical approach, atheism can be reached through skeptical analysis, but it's not the only way. And skepticism does not necessarily end up in atheism.

>>17386923
Believe in yourself.

>>17386923
Lurking. I met Alan and his missus at Orbital comics in London when Lost Girls came out as a collection, they were both cool as fuck. I love Alan Moore (/co/ here) but Melinda Gebbie is something of a hero of mine; she was representing in the underground scene for many years and was even part of an obscenity trial her in the UK for her "Fresca Zizis" comic. Great artist, she's a legend, to me. But I'm also well interested in Alan Moore's magickal practices, too.

>>17387344
I couldn't see your face with your fedora tipping so furiously

>>17388653
I think you should stay lurking desu

>>17388755
fedora? What makes you think Im an atheist or even a skeptic? Im neither. Im just pointing out why you're an idiot.

You realize that just accusing people of being "fedora tippers" isn't actually an argument right?

>>17388653
Alan Moore lost me with all the notes at the back of From Hell. He came off as a bit of a tryhard.
As far as anybody's magickal initiation, dayum, what's so complex about Know Will Dare and Keep Silent?

>>17388783
kek

>>17388810
>look im greentext trolling on an /x/ relevant thread!

>>17388791
Tryhard? Or maybe you think that because "most people" generally don't expect comics to be as well researched as a true crime book? Not dissing you btw, you might be a huge comics fan for all I know. I just don't think it's fair to call him that because he actually wanted his comic to have some basis in reality.
>>17388761 Okay; why?!

>>17386923
Well there is just practicing the craft. You don't have to believe in a deity to get into magic.

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>>17388810

>>17387080
you intrigued me. Which are the other ways?

Interesting video BTW. Who' the lady on the thumbnail?

>>17387197
OP here, I may clarify that maybe the word is agnostic. I don't know if there is a god or not; but I don't feel like worshipping him without knowing his reasons and agenda.

>>17391280
You're alright.

>>17391280

Yes, that would be agnostic. Atheist basically means that you make the argument that god does not exist; there isn't really room for a maybe. Arguably, agnostic is the most reasonable stance to take, because as things are, there is no way to definitively prove or disprove the existence of a higher power.

>>17390902

probably created by a weeboo fedora faggot

>>17388810

Dude seriously you sound like a pathetic little nigger. Kill yourself.

>>17386994
You need to choose a different word than faith used to describe this. It's not the same imo. I don't know how to explain it

>>17386923
forget gods, focus on yourself.
your true self, your innermost.

>>17386923
go to bed anthony

>>17393327
>Atheist basically means that you make the argument that god does not exist

This isn't really true, there's no assertion being made with atheists, an atheist actively disbelieves or lacks belief in a god(s).

One can obviously be both atheist and antitheist but they're not mutually inclusive.

To make an argument that god does not exist is an assertion and is actually anti-theism. I know it's semantics, but that seems to be a theme of this thread.

>>17386923
My idea of magic focuses on becoming my own god. Not really using any inner deities or archetypes, but simply believing in the only thing I can and should rely on to help me through my life, myself.

If there is a god or gods, they probably weren't granted that title by others or were simply born perfectly into the role. Most polytheistic being's often have to earn that title, and most monotheistic being's never needed to rely on anyone else calling them all powerful to be all powerful. I don't see why we can't become their equals if we want to, why instead of following in their path or going along with their plans we can't just follow our own and be our best selves.

If such entities exist, I'll respect them, but I refuse to take any power they offer other than wisdom or advice. To do magick and other occult stuff I would rather be partners to such beings in my own journey than a servant begging to be like them rather than be like myself. Same could apply to anyone else. Basically just try to avoid any system that relies on the idea of drawing power from anything else, even if it is easier to do so.

>>17386923

>I'm an atheist pansexual otherkin from the higher states of the spirit world who believes in magic, unicorns, fairies and public restrooms.

>>17391280
I'm going to agree with Tomoko. So now I'll tell you all of the gods are real. Deal with whichever one you want, or none at all. Choice is yours. There are a lot of different ways to go about learning magic. Some people choose to respect and admire the deities, but not worship any single one.

Would you be able to respect their power and position without knowing their exact agendas? If you want to do ritual stuff that means following the rules of any ritual you perform set by whichever deity the ritual is for.

There's a lot of shit, really.

>>17388783

I think gods can be both inner programs written into our code, and external entities. The interior coding makes it easier for one being to communicate with many. Instead of physically responding to every form of telepathic communication, they just write a program that answers according to their personality. I'm sure gods are smart enough to do that.

>>17387197

Not really. Believing in magic powers doesn't necessarily mean any being is ruling over it all, or that you have to worship them.

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>>17386923
Step 1: Make up an imaginary friend

Step 2: Assign them all needed worldly traits which you yourself lack

Step 3: Figure out what your imaginary friend would do in a situation and learn from that

Step 4: ?????????????

Step 5: Become Alan Moore

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>>17391272
Next down the list is etheric reality.
That is that all the gods and spirits and demons are real, but they exist in their own reality that is separate but connected to our own. This goes with the belief that magic takes place within the mind, or at least your connection to these astral realms happen through your mind. And since you are wandering through these areas with your eyes closed, having a patron god to both guide and protect you is invaluable.
https://youtu.be/-ZhWK8SZPvU?t=4m54s

>>17394177
>>17387080
zorak, are these two methods necessarily mutually exclusive? They sound like they're more than compatible.

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>>17394204
Every bit of it is compatible. It all depends on what angle you want to look at it from. Moore belongs to somewhat modern school of thought that blends from mystic to imagination to paraphyc without ever explicitly stating which view they hold.
https://youtu.be/vw1Sv04YQS4

>>17393845
If the disagreement is semantic in nature then, you'd damn well better argue semantics and not distract the discussion with some unrelated fallacy.

>>17393846
Thanks.

>>17394425
I did fucking argue semantics, atheism != anti-theism, you made the statement:
"Atheist basically means that you make the argument that god does not exist"

That is incorrect, an atheist is not making an assertion of the existence of something, therefore they are not making an argument.

An anti-theist is making the assertion that god does not exist.

There is a difference, it is semantic, I just argued it. To conflate the two is incorrect.
If you'd like to argue the point you'd damn well better argue the point and not distract from the discussion with your unrelated false dichotomy and usage of words you do not understand.

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>>17394449
FUCKING BUTTHURT
Atheists don't believe in god you fucking retard. Deal with it.

>>17394449
I'm not that anon. I was just pointing out that arguing semantics isn't a bad thing until it's actually a bad thing.

>>17394550
Did I state anything contrary to that, or that would indicate otherwise? I am simply saying that disbelief in a thing, is not an assertion of anything.

If I say "I do not believe in unicorns" that is not the same as "unicorns do not exist" one of those is a belief, one is an assertion. In the same way to say "I disbelieve in god" is not the same as "god does not exist".

There is a difference between an atheist, and an anti-theist. Have I made this clear enough?
Is any of this getting through to you?

>>17394562
>Is any of this getting through to you?
I don't think any of us is the anon you first replied to so no, it's not getting through.

They're real.. 'inner gods?' Lmao. Just because you probably left Christianity and became and atheist due to that doesn't mean everyone else is wrong. You don't necessarily need an established (named) religion or have to believe that a certain god created the world to actually worship one either. Find one that appears admirable and worthy of your respect if you are that intent on having a patron deity

>>17396294
>shub-nigger

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1/2

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2/2

>>17396516
>>17396524
Gaiman, writing about Moore, as an immortal wizard, holy shit. I didnt know this existed.
Thats some heavy shit right there.

>>17396540
It's small world after all.

>>17396557
well I knew they were friends and collaborators obviously, but this... Well given Moore's beliefs about the subject, this is like immortality.

Gods are archetypes. They represent the goal you want to embody.

For instance, Yogis in India praise Shiva because they created the Shiva archetype to be represent the highest potential of a Yogi.

In Buddhism, they have the various Buddhas.

In Christianity, they have Jesus.

By having an archetype to look up to, you have something to which you project your goal, and thus begins the play of you becoming closer to your deity.

If you're going to pick a god, make that god relevant to yourself. See that god appearing in your life.

For example, if I find that I am facing tough lessons in life but see that I am becoming stronger through them, I might choose the goddess Kali to praise because I know she represents the divine acting through fierce grace.

If you're going to pick Hades, ask yourself where you see Hades in your life. How does he relate to you on a personal level? How does being the God of the Underworld have to do with yourself and the magick that you want to be involved with?

Don't just get stuck with the image of the god. For instance, picking Zeus because you think it's cool that he can zap people with lightning bolts. Pick a god that is a reflection of what you're seeking a god for.

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nsfw

>>17386923
bullshit. the masons require you to believe in an god because that's how they know you know jack shit

>>17398392
what happened OP? shit was getting good...

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tw:fiction
>>17398408
got distracted

>>17386957
What the others said. Every god that has ever existed could be thought of this way; it is only recently that we're starting to realize that's what it is... at least that's what tends to be the consensus of Scientific Illuminists.

I've had some experiences that tend toward believing these things do "exist" in a more concrete way than just being some idea.

The best attitude in magic is one of complete agnosticism... not toward the subject of "God," but toward EVERYTHING. We have no way to prove objectively the existence of anything at all; we only have the experience of our senses. Unless someone solves the problem of hard solipsism, which I think is impossible, then you are perfectly justified in treating the phenomena experienced in ritual as "real," at least as much as anything else you experience.

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A brief musical interlude. Not for the faint of heart or those with infirm minds and weak wills.
https://mega.nz/#!hhEAGAhJ!2Q-OOoNo7jhpT5p-FMzvZOmE-MljAeLClfolLkIz1AM

>thread starts out talking about the nature of godforms
>descends into a cthulu cult orgy and comic dump
>musical/ritual accompaniment by the grand egyptian theater

Im ok with this, thank you zorak

>>17398573
You're welcome. These are all the works of Alan Moore. I'm very eagerly waiting on his bumper book.

>>17398598
Yeah I was following. I was always a fan, but Im becoming a bit entranced with the guy in this thread.

I thought the bumper book had come out?

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>>17398616
Had it? I'll have to go looking.

>>17398678
>three days of deep one dickings

Ouch, this is why we carry an elder sign children.

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>>17398694
Become of wizard in 30 years of no sex or three days of dagon dick.

>>17386923
>>says he is an atheist
>>but hur dur i wunt to be wizard guys

Op is surely a shill making fun of us.

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>>17398760
What's wrong with not believing in something you don't have a reason to believe in? One of the things you can do with magic is meet and work with gods, and after having had that experience if you have a reason to believe you can.

>>17398759
Proceed... this is giving me a raging semi

>>17398765
>meet and work with gods
Literally worse than girlfriends.

>>17398698
well apparently theyre good with handies so it probably wouldnt be too bad, Ill take three days of dagon dick since I failed the 30 years thing

any more?

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>There is no such thing as magic, you already know this
https://mega.nz/#!l49H3KAQ!_cXQ-JvNhSYcu7M5w-C3PGWoIyhQ-746aqBhGkppxPg

But somehow this has never stopped anyone from practicing it.

>>17398770
>semi
my love for you is like a truck?

>>17398779
aye, never had a god make me breakfast the next morning.

>>17398782
another issue coming up.

>>17398787
>book of copulation
>another issue

where do I start worshiping your god form?

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>>17398807
I am eagerly awaiting Moore's bumper book, I don't think I'll have any reservations about recommending that one as a magical primer.

>>17398792
>aye, never had a god make me breakfast the next morning.
Had one that saved me from being dinner once. Has it's moments. But still muh offerings, muh specific days, muh altars.

You want a altar so much build it yourself son.
>b-but senpai I can't into physical plane
bitch that's not my problem...

>>17398813
I meant where do I start worshiping YOU, I was joking. Thanks for the dump.

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>>17398815
>what does God need with a starship!
is one of the best kōans of the past 50 years

>>17398818
Been a while since I heard that one. I accept blood, strife, and mastercard.

>>17398825
>that cthuluhu doll bottom left
I have that one, I think id like this shop.

On a side note, these egyptian theater recordings, are they incomplete? They sort of jump in weird places, like there was more recording there and this is just a preview or something.

>>17398839
>>17398829
>>17398825
/k/ & /x/ solves everything.

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>>17398833
It's done in an intentionally jarring style
https://mega.nz/#F!5g1lnSDA!rWtU-r0O8SutGeVHNed5Aw

>>17398847
oh ok so it's SUPPOSED to sound like that? That's fine if it is, I just wanted to know if there was a more complete version somewhere or something.

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>>17398846
/k/ is a magical place

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>>17398850
not that I'm aware of.

>>17398881
poor fishman :(

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>>17398894
He fucked some girls, he fucked some guys, he rekt some walls. We don't know much about him but we can say he lived well.

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fin

>>17398918
>"The strange aeons start from between my thighs"
/x/ dirty talk

thanks for the read along zorak!

>>17398815
>bitch that's not my problem
Ayyyyy

>>17398901
>I'm not trying to upset you, you're just the only person who might understand.
>tfw know that feel

Hello, It's me

>>17398923
>that umbilical cord
Aww yeah.

>>17398765
That literally is one of the most stupidest contradictory things I have ever heard about the foundation of early magick practice.

Magick is more commonly linked to a folk pantheon and set of beliefs.
At it's core, you cannot be an atheist and believe in magick.
Because magick, at its core, as A.J Cunningham said.
"Magick has been and can still be referred to as;
Science we not understand."

So you either believe in that theory of Scientific Magick or some folk hippy dippy folklore.'

I'm a Priestess of The Black Sword. so that has been my experience.

>>17399338
>Priestess of The Black Sword
o.k.

>>17399338
> literally is one of the most stupidest contradictory things I have ever heard
Welcome to the internet, you must be new here

>a folk pantheon and set of beliefs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_religion
Because ceremonial magic is not tied to an ethnicity or region there is nothing folk about it. And because the pantheons used most in such operations, greco roman and Egyptian, no longer have active national followings, ceremonial is pretty much the opposite of folk.

>A.J Cunningham
>wicca
oh boy

> that theory of Scientific Magick or some folk hippy dippy folklore
So many shades of grey in between
>>17387080
>>17394177
>>17394224

>>17399338
>most stupidest
did you know that the word grimoire is a derivative of the word "grammar"?

>Magick is more commonly linked to a folk pantheon and set of beliefs.
Not at all, much of magic gets tied back into them, but only in certain traditions is a belief in a folk pantheon required.

>At it's core, you cannot be an atheist and believe in magick.
Demonstrably false. It is also a misunderstanding of not only what the word 'atheist' means, but also a misunderstanding of what magic is.

>A.J Cunningham said.
Who? Do you mean AJ Drew? Or Scott Cunningham?

>"Magick has been and can still be referred to as;
Science we not understand."

Oddly I don't translate that as "atheists cant practice magic" and I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion, especially since it literally just said that magic is science yet to be understood, and the practice of science has nothing to do with theism.

>So you either believe in that theory of Scientific Magick or some folk hippy dippy folklore.'
So there's only two beliefs in the entire world on the subject? That must make things terribly convenient.

>Priestess of The Black Sword
what?

>>17386923
An idea held by the Gnostics was that by looking within, one might come to know the complete wisdom of god, the psyche, and the universe. Start by looking within anon and learn to differentiate the various forms and forces you witness. Dreams are a good avenue for gathering deeper insights into your unconscious nature. Compare what you find with the various figures from myth and religion. This is certainly not the only route into the occult, but it's one that I personally have found effective.

>>17398239
I like your thinking anon. Thanks for this post.

>>17401369
reporting in, got my popcorn, root of t'char and a loose grip on reality, lets roll.

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>>17401376
Just the hornbook tonight. a bit of light reading while listening to the shaggoths parading their flesh-suits under the spotlights

>>17401440
what exactly IS that in the final panel on the last page there?

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>>17401447
you know, I don't know.

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>>17401506
>I made it all up and it all came true anyway
Mind in this panel that moore is fan of wilson, pay close attention to what he calls funny.

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I think it's nice they've taken to playing the anthem at the start of the rock em sock em robot matches, like they do for most other sports.

>>17401539
>bubbies or gtfo

Zorak, do you happen to know if there is a TPB or a full set of scans for Promethea? That seems like a great dump for /x/

>>17401563
give me a few, will upload them

>>17401587
oh I didnt mean to make work for you, thanks though! I dont have a mastercard and Im anemic, Ive got lots of strife to send your way though.

>>17401598
Still uploading, but here you go.
https://mega.nz/#F!BwESyKhC!wysIASbT5YoTC__PMa1N6A

>>17401653
fucking awesome, thank you. Sorry to interrupt the From Hell dump

>>17401668
and from hell
https://mega.nz/#F!dtF1gKTb!RGGxxJSFHGPdbSI1HZv6iA

>>17401692
thanks so much.