/Voodoo/

>.

What ??


XD

>>17324327

Also this guy just strengthened my doubts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGWevKoBOiA

Voodoo is for those who came from African(-American) families.

Why would the Lwa help white people, for example?

>>17324327
>>17324335

Another problem (for me): Many Voodoo rituals start with Christian prayers.

If their whole religion is basically about communicating with Christian saints and reciting Catholic verses, then... then it is Christianity!

Ok, the whole possession thing is pretty weird, but apart of that, it's 90% Catholic stuff.

So why would anyone practice Voodoo if you have a more "original" religion, Christianity (and no, I'm not religious)?

>>17324334
>What ??

What?

Isn't OP's pic "Dia del Muetros" as opposed to voodoo?

>>17324373

I dunno, man, just picked a random pic.

>>17324396

So you've " been studying Voodoo for months ", but don't have one voodoo image, nor do you recognize one when you see it.

>>17324404
>but don't have one voodoo image

Why would I?

>nor do you recognize one when you see it

That's not what I said.
I said I just picked a random image.

Here's what matters: >>17324327

File: the-voudon-gnostic-workbook-expanded-edition-1100x1100-imaeahbk5za4wg8g.jpg (86KB, 759x1100px) Image search: [Google]

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>>17324327

Also: What do you think about pic related?

I heard many practitioners think it's just a made-up book and it's not about real Voodoo.

>>17324373
it's some kind of mix between Baron Samedi (?) and make up for el dia de los muertos

>Voodoo is really, REALLY a cultural tradition, if you're not born into it you'll never be a REAL practitioner
Patently false and a pure meme sprouted off by those who instantly give away that they haven't really looked too in depth about it. Many outsiders think "spiritual ancestral magick", therefore there will be a lack of an ability to attune to ancestral spirits, Loas, and the Exus. I mean, any casual book will show you that the spirits, both forgotten and renown, WANT to meet you and desire to commune with followers and spiritual "horses"- check out the Voudon Gnostic Workbook by Michael Bertiaux, and Secrets of Voodoo by Milo Rigaud, as well as Hoodoo Rootwork Correspondence Course by Catherine Yronwode.

Where you're thinking "be born or have racial connections", it's actually "be gifted with the initial keys so one can touch into the specifics of African, Haitian and Brazilian spirit pathwalking.

However, many offshoots are built from African religio-magickal syntheses. It's not so much as a traceable blood lineage, as much as it is harmonizing with the deathly currents or transcendental forces you're seeking favor within. The predominant form of Voodoo deals with ancestor worship so what's the crux of the matter is learning about and dealing with your history to some degree.

Those who are adopted may find it difficult to attune to one's historical line of spirits; this is easily gone around by absorbing additional magickal artifacts in one's spiritual growth and attunement to those unknown and known by the practitioner.

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Da trolls in warcraft constantly tell me do stay away from da voodoo. But i'ma Shaman and i want da voodoo mon.

>>17324482

Thank you for the quality post, Anon!

Yeah, I thought that everyone can work with the Lwa - they are here to mediate between us and God, after all.
It's about being human, not about having a specific nationality or skin colour.

>that the spirits, both forgotten and renown, WANT to meet you and desire to commune with followers and spiritual "horses"

Very interesting!

As I said, it is their exact duty to help us - so, obviously, they'll come if you invite them.

So you say that this is a good book, then? >>17324478

>>17324499
I'm prejudiced because I don't know much about anything on my family history, so I synthesize principles I come across and work it into my paradigm. It's not authentic 100% Voodoo, but more so an esoteric adoption and synthesis of varying occult aspects, such as geometric magick squares and associating certain spirits as embodiments of Logos and Eros. It's more so for those familiar with gnostic or christian mysticism or other western religio-magickal systems.

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>>17324529

I heard this gnostic workbook is basically DIY Voodoo - I see (maybe) they were right about that.

Anyway: it sounds very interesting.

Do you work with the whole book or only with the first parts (more Voodoo, less Gnostic stuff)?

>>17324542
The Voudon Gnostic Workbook is one of those books that, if you're really wanting to get the most out of it, you'll need to study it and break it apart. Since it incorporates more than just Voodoo within its mechanics, much of it involves digesting additional papers if you truly wish to get the most out of it. As such, I don't use it exhaustively and solely eclectically.

I've got a few sources of information that I think you may appreciate. The following link has Secrets of Voodoo, Voodoo Sorcery Grimoire, Ritual Voodoo Diagrams, Hoodoo Rootwork Correspondence Course, and Voudon Gnostic Workbook.
https://www.sendspace.com/filegroup/x9A6L3pwslJ%2FnuUEsdIkkSCsx5a4xnHVXzbobWZIMdw

as a practitioner voodoo is basically for everyone

>>17324363
>So why would anyone practice Voodoo if you have a more "original" religion, Christianity (and no, I'm not religious)?

because no religion is made in a vacuum, they all steal from earlier traditions.

>it was a cultural thing, they "magic" couldn't help them (ok, ok, I know, the slave revolts in Haiti, but still...)

huh? Africans and their descendants have dominated American popular culture since the beginning of the 20th century.

>>17324327
I have a friend who is a Santero. Santeria is sorta similar. Not only is the dude very white but nerdy white as well. I received a shell reading from him and it was the most mind blowing divination I've ever received. I've witnessed possessions. Its pretty fucking fascinating. Makes me a tad jealous contemplating dropping this golden dawn shit and asking to get initiated.

>>17325837

I really appreciate your answers and wow, thanks for all those books!

You and these anons >>17326972 >>17327008 made me reconsider to try Voodoo,

I'm a practical guy, so here are some other questions, if you don't mind:

1, How effective Voodoo is (overall)?
I mean while I understand that religions and spiritual paths are not just about physical achievments, I could use some material help now, and that's why I asked this.

2, Do you use possession or you "simply" evoke the Lwa?
If the last one, then: do the Lwa appear to you or they give you hints and hidden messages, for example in your dreams?

And, again: Thank you for the books!

>>17325987
>because no religion is made in a vacuum, they all steal from earlier traditions.

That's true.

>>17326972
>huh? Africans and their descendants have dominated American popular culture since the beginning of the 20th century.

Interesting approach.
So we could say that Voodoo helped the African slaves, in the long run.

>>17327008

Did he learn Santeria from a teacher or from books?

>>17327140
Missed this thread earlier, wanted to chime in.

I don't know if we will be graced with her input on this and I wont share much more than this, but there IS a resident /x/ browser who is a dyed in the wool Haitian tradition mambo, she also happens to be white.

The resistance you are going to encounter in voodoo based on your race is going to be the same resistance you would encounter in any non-white-dominant culture. It's not that you're not welcome, it's that they want to know you're not just fucking around in their culture. They take this shit seriously, and voodoo in particular, deals with many many tourists and people out on a lark to trust anyone right off the bat. This will also change a LOT depending on which group you find yourself talking to, some are much more ready to accept than others.

It's a bit like a different board resident waltzing in here and asking a bunch of questions about ghosts or conspiracies without really giving a shit, just satisfying a momentary curiosity. We give them the token posts, we give them the skeletons and then send them home. They're not an /x/-phile and it shows. They may stick around and become one, but thats different.

Voodoo actually has important white figures in its beliefs (along with black, native american, and other ethnicities). Voodoo was never "a black thing" but it has been predominately practiced by one race and ultimately has its roots in africa, so it's wise to remember that. It's not unwise to understand too, that the african diaspora may be the oldest extant tradition on earth based on recent archaeological discoveries. It's very much a 'human' thing.

(cont...)

>>17327423

>>17327140
>1, How effective Voodoo is (overall)?
If you are coming to any path, voodoo included, looking for reward, you will have a bad time. Voodoo is much more likely to teach you how to be comfortable without material wealth than it is to teach you how to make mad spirit dosh.

Voodoo specifically is a religious and spiritual path that is very VERY much about service. Service to the ancestors, service to the mysteries, service to the family, service to the community. If that is uncomfortable to you, you may have a hard time with it.

>2, Do you use possession or you "simply" evoke the Lwa?
Neither, this is not really how it works, there is an evocation of sorts, but possession in voodoo is really something else entirely. It's worth a considerable amount of research and consultation with experienced practitioners to understand, it is also not something you should seek out any time soon. In fact when visitors to oumphors are observing ritual, one of the jobs is to ensure that they are not possessed by a loa as they will be unready for the experience.

>because no religion is made in a vacuum, they all steal from earlier traditions.
It's not so much that voodoo 'stole' from other traditions, or in fact that any tradition stole. This is the phenomenon of a syncretic religion. That subject deserves a thread (and indeed has had some) all on its own. Research that separately to understand it, would be my advice.

>So we could say that Voodoo helped the African slaves, in the long run.
I dont think "voodoo helped" in this cultural shift weve seen, it may have been a portion of it but by and large voodoo has been vilified by the same media and culture were talking about here. It was PRESENT during the shift, it was not the cause of the shift.

>>17327449
>>17327423

And finally after all that talking, Ill give you the advice that I was given:

If you want to become more involved in voodoo, it's going to start with your ancestral spirits. You're going to want to get some information on setting up a basic shrine to the ancestors, feeding them, looking after them. This is standard animist stuff that goes from africa to everywhere in the world in different folk-faiths and religions. The ancestors will guide you to your next step because they are your personal intercessors and assistants on this path. Get right with them first or go nowhere. From there you're going to need to speak to someone inside the tradition, whether Haitian, New Orleans, Santero or one of the other 20 flavors of the diaspora, they will help you move forward.

If however you are only interested in taking the ritual and magical elements of voodoo, you have all the resources you need in the books posted prior, I would especially encourage you to look at the rootwork and hoodoo side of things as they are a bit more 'agnostic' or 'flexible' regarding religion.

>>17327140
>Did he learn Santeria from a teacher or from books?

He was a part of some some household in chicago like 15 years ago. According to him it's impossible to be a santero without lineage. He has some fascinating stories about them. Funny story. He said at the time he was scouting out the occult scene looking for a golden dawn temple yet found him. But 20 year later he's hanging out with a bunch of golden dawn and OTO people and teaching them how to approach their ancestors and how its important to magical work.

>>17327423
>>17327449
>>17327487
>>17329639

Again, thank you very much for the posts, they are very helpful!

I decided to start with a simple altar.
I have a skull sculpture (sized like a real skull, it looks damn fine), so I'll use that to honour the dead - I read about this in The Voodoo Sorcery Grimoire - and I'll have an antique-looking cup, too.

Do I need a candle or that's only for proper, grande rituals?

>>17332124

Ok, my altar is kinda ready.
A skull, a cup of water and a tealight candle.

I had to use one of my bookshelves (had no space on the table and my room is small.

I decided to use an upper shelf, nearly as tall as I am.
So it's ok if I stand before it, but I saw that many people create an altar on tables or on lower furniture.
Is there any "rules" about the position and height of altars or it doesn't matter?

Also what else do I need on it?

>>17332268
well that's about the basics. Every animist faith is going to be different on how you look after and set up your altar.

Different african diaspora traditions are no different and all set it up a little differently. You sound like you understand the concept just fine.

>A skull, a cup of water and a tealight candle.
>Also what else do I need on it?

that's good, you can add a small bowl for food offerings, cut flowers or incense, the kind of thing. You may want to set it all on a white cloth to 'establish' its space. You'll eventually want to add pictures and or some important objects/objects they would have liked of your lost family/friends. In this it is important that the altar NOT contain any images of people still alive, this is a space for the departed.

>Is there any "rules" about the position and height of altars or it doesn't matter?
It doesn't really matter as far as I know, as long as the space is sort of established for them. If you keep up with this or get more involved in the traditions youll probably want a bigger space just for the sake of having lots of stuff up there if you want it.

From this point I would recommend changing the water out once a week (or more often if it gets gross) giving a food or liquor offering (a little bit goes a very long way, tiny bowls and a few drops in a shotglass is fine) and tidying up the altar, you want to ensure that it stays clean and tidy, you're basically making sure their 'house' is clean for them. Dont let it get dusty and gross with old food, just keep it clean.

Once a week, or more often if you like, light up the candle (which should technically be white) sit down and talk to your ancestors, like they were there. Talk about your life, about theirs, about whatever you want, its a little reunion. Do it for as long as youre comfortable and then thank them and wrap it up.

(cont...)

>>17332441
And that's basically the process, tend the shrine, say hello to your people.

I will note now, that you may be inclined to put up iconography or add altar pieces to the lwa themselves, I would advise against this until you are a bit more involved. If after some time of keeping this up you are comfortable with it, you can add some pieces or make a seperate shrine to Legba, as he is in everyones esko, but it is important that you not be putting up stuff to spirits you do not KNOW you have looking after you, and who the ones that are might surprise you. Ill leave it to you to look up stuff about an altar to legba.

IF you do this, their is a caveat about the placement, the lwa altar goes ABOVE the ancestral altar, even if its just a slightly raised portion. Legba also likes corners as they are symbolic of the crossroads.

That is about as far as I am comfortable guiding you with it on my own, if you are fortunate to have a houngan or a mambo or a santero nearby, or even a botannica I would advise you go speak with them before going any further with the practice. Youll need their advice.

As you do all this remember that one of the most common phrases when referring to voodoo is "Sèvis Lwa" or "serving the spirits. You're there to help and look out for them for now, not vice versa, keep that in mind and youll do good.

>>17324327
Why dont you try it out instead of mentally masturbating to it

>>17324363
>>17324327

>Christianity

Nigas occult practices like voodoo or santeria often use christian figures or give christian names to not so christian entities, because they were forced to do so by the church.

Those are not the real names

>>17324542
Put it directly in the trash. It's worthless. Don't waste your time.

>>17324363
>more "original" religion
>If their whole religion is basically about communicating with Christian saints and reciting Catholic verses, then... then it is Christianity!

wat

do you have a learning disability?

>>17335269

Please tell us more!
I heard many people dislike it, but no idea why exactly.

well shit I"ve been wanting to study voodoo for a while. Can anyone recommend any worthwhile books on voodoo besides the voudon gnostic book?

Voodoo does not work anymore, because there is a stronger believe system at hand and only the believers give a specific magic the power. If you grow up in a society where the believe is lived, your magic is strong. With the christian missionary doubt can into this societies and the magic was weakened! Your believe brings the magic to life, not the other way around. Technology is the magic of our time, but this 'magic' are just reminders of our true abilities.

was jesus real?

>>17338263
obviously

>>17338086
I saw your question over in /omg/ also but figured Id answer here instead. The books in the library on that thread are a good read but there's an inherent problem with your question.

Your interest isn't the problem, the nature of voodoo is the problem. You have to understand that almost by definition, anything you read in a book about voodoo is going to be primarily relevant to one specific segment or small group within the larger community, and not true of the entire community.

Read anything and everything you want, and it's great for learning new things but the truth is, is that voodoo and most of the african diaspora is a very participatory practice, it is not scholarly in the way that much of ritual western magic(k) is. Its very difficult to sum the experience or beliefs within a book.

Now that said, if you're not interested in the actual religion of voodoo and its practice, if you're primarily interested in the spell work and the magic or folk magic of these traditions, what you need to be searching for is hoodoo, which is a different animal entirely and has loads of books written about it. I think that will serve your interests much more.


>>17338176
>Voodoo does not work anymore
>Your believe brings the magic to life, not the other way around.

You seriously need to make up your mind.

>>17338263

Better question: if Voodoo uses Catholic saints as symbols of the Lwa, then is there any Lwa who represents / is equivalent to Jesus?

Because the Virgin Mary is, for example, Erzulie in Vodou.

You say you've been studying voodoo for months but you seem to not know a damn thing about. It looks like you skimmed a wiki article and missed some really important parts.

>>17338176
Baby's first attempt at armchair occultism.

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>>17332441
>>17332457

Thank you Anon!

>that's good, you can add a small bowl for food offerings, cut flowers or incense, the kind of thing. You may want to set it all on a white cloth to 'establish' its space. You'll eventually want to add pictures and or some important objects/objects they would have liked of your lost family/friends. In this it is important that the altar NOT contain any images of people still alive, this is a space for the departed.

Is it important to put living things on the altar?
I guess it's because they have their own life force, right?

>It doesn't really matter as far as I know, as long as the space is sort of established for them. If you keep up with this or get more involved in the traditions youll probably want a bigger space just for the sake of having lots of stuff up there if you want it.

Oh, I see.
It's ok, then.

>From this point I would recommend changing the water out once a week (or more often if it gets gross) giving a food or liquor offering (a little bit goes a very long way, tiny bowls and a few drops in a shotglass is fine) and tidying up the altar, you want to ensure that it stays clean and tidy, you're basically making sure their 'house' is clean for them. Dont let it get dusty and gross with old food, just keep it clean.

We're still talking about ancestors, right?
I thought the liquor is only for some lwas.

>Once a week, or more often if you like, light up the candle (which should technically be white) sit down and talk to your ancestors, like they were there. Talk about your life, about theirs, about whatever you want, its a little reunion. Do it for as long as youre comfortable and then thank them and wrap it up.

I've practiced something like this, years ago.
I always prayed to my ancestors and asked their "co-operation".
It feels... right to talk to them, to ask their permissions, help, etc.

I think people should show more respect to their roots.

>>17332457

About the lwas... I still feel a bit uncomfortable about this.
Vodou's origins are in Africa. Its terms are African and / or French(ish?).
... and I'm European. All the terms and spirits sound extremely alien to me.

If the lwa are here to manage Earth / the universe and its people, then they should have different names in different cultures... right?

I'm sure they were the spirits of every shamanic / animistic cultures, since the beginning.
Am I on the right track on this one?

>>17340449
>then is there any Lwa who represents / is equivalent to Jesus?

Some sects of voodoo recognize Jesus of Nazareth himself as a lwa, without a syncretic partner. There's many crucifixes on various altars. He is recognized as the lwa of suffering and unjust persecution.

>you seem to not know a damn thing about
to be fair to anon, this is not the simplest subject to study.

>>17340737
You're welcome!
>Is it important to put living things on the altar?
>I guess it's because they have their own life force, right?
It is not, but you can, things like flowers, it's important to keep it fresh and not let it get old and stale and 'dead' though.
I suppose that might be part of it, I guess I always just associated it with keeping it presentable and comfortable.

>It's ok, then.
Yeah, in my experience, don't overthink it unless you're getting involved in more complex lwa altars.

>We're still talking about ancestors, right?
We are. I know when Im gone I want my descendants to leave me out some rum, imma wanna drink. Liquor is simply an offering, the lwa get both water and liquor too. If your ancestors had a liquor they were fond of, leave them some, if not, no worries, water and a bit of food they liked now and again is fine too.

>It feels... right to talk to them, to ask their permissions, help, etc.
You already understand a huge portion of getting started in this. With that mentality Ill tell you that the altar is there for them to have a "place". Like cleaning out the spare room for them and keeping it tidy when they visit or leaving out those blankets or pictures you know they like. You're making a spot that's for them, to recognize them and sit down and have a chat. It's a respect and love thing. Keep that in mind and the altar will be fine.
(cont...)

>>17340755
>Vodou's origins are in Africa. Its terms are African and / or French(ish?).
Here's where things get a bit complicated. This is going to depend largely on what tradition you follow. Voodoo has been very misrepresented in media and its a much more complicated faith than people immediately understand.

Different traditions are going to have different primary lwa, often times, they are shared with other traditions under different names, other times theyre completely different. Some of the spirits are african in origin, some western european (yes even in Haitian and African systems), some are native american, some are indigenous to the carribean, some are french, etc etc. It's really not as simple as "this is an african religion with african gods". There are systems that have tried to remain "african" without syncretizing in European or other spirits, but those faiths are not the Haitian or NOLA traditions.

>they should have different names in different cultures... right?
They should, and do. If you study Shinto animism, western european animism, hinduism, catholicism etc. You are going to see common faces and themes showing up over and over again.

>I'm sure they were the spirits of every shamanic / animistic cultures, since the beginning.

You are on the right track and I would agree with this to a degree. The thing is, new spirits have been introduced over time as well, especially ancestral spirits of importance, spirits like Marie Laveau or Chief Blackhawk, or even some of the Barons in the Haitian tradition are much newer additions. In fact its generally considered that the entire petro tribe came from the period of enslavement in haiti and are all "newer" lwa. Not all traditions serve all these spirits the same, or even recognize them though.

So to say that theyre simply 'the same spirits as all shamanic/animist cultures' is correct, but probably not the entire picture either.

You're uncomfortable with african spirits simply because you are european?

>>17341127
>>17341152

Thanks Anon, you're pretty based.
It's good to find someone as helpful as you nowadays.

I think I understand your first post and I'll be ok with the altar.

As of your second post: I see we understand each other in those topics, too.

First I have to answer this
>You're uncomfortable with african spirits simply because you are european?

No, it's not what I meant.
I'm mostly unfamiliar with African culture, so that's why it's a bit uncomfortable to work with African spirits and methods.

It's alien - that's all.
I'm sure I could get used to the terms, system, language and the entire culture, in time.

I have another question, if you don't mind.
So we were talking about the lwa and that they're probably in all the animistic and shamanistic culture.

Also you mentioned the houngans and mambos who became lwas.

Is it possible that lwas are basically thoughtforms?
I mean original lwas were spirits / angels made by God.

Also
>Some of the spirits are african in origin, some western european (yes even in Haitian and African systems), some are native american, some are indigenous to the carribean, some are french, etc etc.

So, in theory, we could say that lwas are probably thoughtforms, created and maintained by tribes / bokors, right?

>>17341211
>I'm mostly unfamiliar with African culture, so that's why it's a bit uncomfortable to work with African spirits and methods.

I understand that in the modern day its easy to get hung up on this, but recognize that traditions like this go back so far that even identifying them as "african" is probably missing the mark, these traditions may even pre-date human beings as we have found pre-human ancestors practicing reverence for the dead. It's not so much an "african thing" as it is a "human thing". Local flavors and names may change but the practice, theory, archetypes and motivations are the same whether its shinto, voodoo, asatru or whatever.

> I could get used to the terms, system, language and the entire culture
I think were on the same page that mostly, these practices are highly syncretic and achieve the same ends no matter what the spirits are being called or where it 'originated'. It's not an african thing, its a human thing with african flavors, just like shinto is a human thing with east asian flavors. Ultimately if you place more emphasis on its origins or cultural flavor, I could understand it being uncomfortable.

That said, there is a long history within voodoo, especially within Haitian and NOLA voodoo about slavery, its just reality, it happened, its practitioners dealt with it sty the time, and it has colored the faith permanently. Just as the crusades have colored Christianity and Islam.

>So, in theory, we could say that lwas are probably thoughtforms, created and maintained by tribes / bokors, right?
I suppose that's one way to look at it, and I tend to agree with this line of thought. Not every vodouisant would agree with that.
Also you might want to double check the difference between a bokor and a houngan/mambo they're not the same thing.

There's a parable or a story, that sort of explains this animist theory of spirit, and might explain the lwa in a way you will be able to hold on to (cont...)

>>17324327
>Voodoo
you think someone who supposedly studied "voodoo" would know its not actually called that

>>17341277
>sty
*at

So... I believe this little thought exercise originally comes from the Palo practitioners but Im not sure.

Essentially it works like this... If you have a magic tree, and you take a branch from that tree, the branch is still magic, and it's still magic in the same way that the tree is magic. The magic isn't diminished by the branches removal. It's the same spirit inside the branch, as inside the tree. If you then take that branch and snap it in half, the same is true again, the spirit has divided but remains the same. All the way down to reducing that branch to a powder. They all contain the same essence as the original magic tree.

Spirit in this sense is infinitely divisible without loss. An herb or a root for magic has the same magical use as a full plant of the same type. Same would be true for bones, rocks, water or anything else.

This isnt physics, it doesnt make literal sense, this is a sympathetic magic thing.

Now, with that said, if the spirit of a tree or a rock or whatever is divisible in this fashion, so then would be the spirits of the ancestors, or of the lwa. Just because a lwa is syncretic across two faiths, perhaps with slightly different practices, it does not diminish one or the other to be split. If I break a magic branch from a magic tree, and break it in half and give you one of the halves, and I name my stick Tom, and you name your stick Jim, I tie a red ribbon around my stick and you a blue bell, the essence is the same still.

Is this making sense?

>>17341283
depends on who you ask, and where you're from and what you're practicing. People interchangeably use voodoo, vodou, and other terms to name the practice, there's no reason to get semantic on it. Someone who practices it understands that.

>>17324363
>Many Voodoo rituals start with Christian prayers.
You mean Hoodoo, right?

>>17341312
>You mean Hoodoo, right?
Nope.
Vodou.

>>17324363
>>17342027
>Many Voodoo rituals start with Christian prayers.
do you have any examples of this or is this anecdotal on your behalf? I am unaware of this practice in voodoo, definitely in hoodoo, but thats a different thing altogether.

>>17324327
ok im going to play the devils advocate for a moment. lets assume voodoo / curses are real

being able to harm / adversely affect people doesnt give you anything by itself. you would have to harm a rival .some one your are competing with. not just some random person

if you need a clear image of the person in your mind or a name then targeting people becomes more difficult. its not just all the white people. a broad attack would be beyond you

also if voodoo/curses are real then whos to say only 1 group has the real thing even if most cant do it. then its about who is more powerful / efficient / numerous. maybe voodoo works but others counter it and have a more advanced method or simply are not trying to swim up stream or have way more countering the voodoo

I had heard voodoo focuses primarily on positive and protective magics, and has a very small focus on curses and the like, and since curses were involved, people ignored the rest of it in most depictions of the religion to focus on the curse aspect. Accurate?

>>17342079
It's Catholic prayers specifically. Our Father. Hail Mary. Other things too, like novenas to various saints. In addition to that, there is a whole litany of African prayers that list the various lwa/orisha. When invited by being mentioned, one by one, people get ridden by the being.

>>17342117
Im not sure what you're arguing here, what are you trying to say?

>>17342145
very accurate

>>17342186
can you name any specific example? again I see this often in hoodoo and santo, rarely in haitian or NOLA voodoo or other diaspora faiths. Can you provide an actual example?

>>17342117

Voodoo is not about curses.
The so-called "Voodoo-doll" was used mostly for healing practices.

Also see this: >>17342145

For that Anon: yes, accurate.

Vodou is a religion.
It's about venerating your ancients and serving the Lwa (spirits or angels left here by God).

>>17342205
Not OP, but just about any ritual for Ezili Danto starts with a Hail Mary. If you're looking for a specific ritual, I don't recall the name but it's the "dedication" of sorts where a vodouisant becomes her "child".

Catholic prayers are definitely not just hoodoo.

>>17342475
This. The use of an effigy to curse someone is a more European tradition, in which they were called "poppets".

>>17342954
>but just about any ritual for Ezili Danto starts with a Hail Mary

I literally do not know what you are talking about. Every rite, song or prayer to I have ever heard to Dantor does not begin with a prayer to Mary as a syncretized figure. I cant even find but just one on google.

While there is much syncretism with catholicism in various ways amongst different groups, to flat out say that "just about any" rite to Dantor will start with a hail mary is patently false.

>>17343035
Whatever you say, Mr. Expert Man. Just what I've read.

>>17343071
Im not claiming to be an expert, Im just asking for an actual non-anecdotal example, because Ive never seen one, Id be interested to see where it's coming from, which tradition. Even if you could just point me to where you read that fact.

>>17342965

Exactly.
There is evocation / invocation and possession in Vodou - communication with the ancestors and with the lwa.

I think the poppet is more of a Hoodoo thing, by the way.

File: Jack_of_Clubs.jpg (95KB, 361x522px) Image search: [Google]

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I'm extremely interested in voodoo, but I obviously won't come anywhere near the proper thing (European native, tough luck with voodoo)

Are there any basics and ground rules about it? If not about it, then at least about how to portray it in literature? Did it have a stronger presence than it does now?

>>17344843

See this Anon's posts:
>>17324482
>>17325837
>>17327423
>>17327449
>>17327487
>>17332441
>>17332457
>>17341127
>>17341152
>>17341277
>>17341293

Also check out the "African Traditional Religions" section of the Studio Arcanis forum.

>>17344779
poppets/dolls/doll babies get used in voodoo rootwork too, just not in the stereotypical "sticking pins" black magic way. Sticking pins isnt even necessarily a bad thing either, Ive seen pins used to pin petitions to a doll baby for good health or protection, its just cloth, pins work, tape doesnt. Misconceptions about them are out of control.

>>17344843
>I obviously won't come anywhere near the proper thing
You can make a trip, where in europe are you? Temples are not wide spread, but practitioners are, you should be able to find someone who you can talk to.

>Are there any basics and ground rules about it?
It's a religion, there's quite a few, what do you mean?

> If not about it, then at least about how to portray it in literature?
Are you wanting to use it as a plot device in a story or something? The truth about voodoo is far less dramatic and intense than most people want to believe.

If you're thinking: hazy rites at midnight with posession and fire and powerful matriarchs performing spells with demon dancing.... you've got it twisted.

if you're thinking: potlucks, church organizing, holiday celebrations, priests healing and/or praying for the ill/infirm than that's much closer.

> Did it have a stronger presence than it does now?
In what way? Do you mean culturally? Magically?

Voodoo doesn't real.

>>17345098
>/x/ - Paranormal
/sci/ is 10 doors back down the hallway, fuck off.

>>17345159
That doesn't make it less doesn't real.

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>>17345169
Well thank you for your insightful (if unsolicited) input.

Im sure you've made a difference and that your life now means something. You are certainly not an antagonistic waste of breath with nothing better to do than antagonize in an attempt to justify your continued presence on earth.