Magic to combat drug addiction??

just take psychedelics dude.

will break any addiction

>>17002973

thats complete bullshit

Ive lost count of how may times ive done shrooms and I still have a raging internet porn addiction

Tell me what you're addicted to and I'll tell you how to deal with the withdrawals

>>17002993
Opiates, 12 clean

12 days clean*

>>17002993
Here's a short guide:
Opiates: clonidine, gabapentin, and loperamide. Subs are useless, methadone is poison
Coke/amphetamines: benzos, alcohol, opiates
Crack: opiates
Benzos: slow taper
Alcohol: slow taper and short acting benzos which would then need to be tapered
Barbs: bullet to the head

>>17003008
Naltrexone usually does the trick for cravings

Get a golden citrine and place it over your solar plexus and meditate

>>17002993
porn?

>>17003039
What does the citrine do? Focus energy??

>>17003039
That's like using homeopathic medicine to cure cancer

>>17003022
Literally no magic here...

>>17003046
Find a fuck buddy or a hooker

>>17003055
Yes because I want to give people real ways to solve their problems.

>>17003062
Just eat the flesh of another person, human or otherwise, and all your memories, your regrets, your guilt, will be gone as if they were never even there

>>17003072
You need to work on your vaguely alluding to things. Occult fags are supposed to be good at that.

>>17002948
no magic is needed just a strong mind and self-restraint
but technically a strong mind can fight evil magic so idk lol

>>17002948
Ayahuasca

>>17003196
Something about using one drug to cure another..I dunno. I will say I have tried just about every psychedelic except DMT, so maybe that's the piece I'm missing. Honestly always been afraid of it

>>17003228
Have you tried overdosing on heroin?

>>17002948
Acid helped me kick heroin

>>17003232
This. Best case scenario you die and your struggle is over or you end up in treatment and either get your shit together or rinse and repeat until you do

>>17003008
Ive been mainlining heroin for 6 years
Any clean time I've had that was substantial was due to phycodelics, I know it sounds like a meme at this point buy it works
Subs are just a crutch that get you a legal way to get fucked up
If you have to use go to a methadone clinic, at least then it's a pain in the ass to get your fix, you'll have to go to the clinic every day. It'll give you more insentive to quit.
Phycs will help you quit but will power will keep you clean.
I've been off it for a few years, haven't kept track of my clean date because I think that's gay. I smoke pot but it's better than putting a spike in my arm.

>>17003274
I think you're misinformed
Cannabis is used to treat cancer

>>17003285
Misinformed about what? My life has revolved around substance abuse for over a decade, I've forgot more about drugs than you'll know.
I'm using cannabis habitually as a crutch for its phycoactive effects but it's better than what I was doing.

>>17003333
Good on you anon. Fuck herion

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>>17003333
Misinformed about cannabis
It has regenerative properties when applied to the hair and skin, is extremely nutritious when eaten, and, oh yeah, it inhibits cancer growth in nearly all cases

Man fuck you and your bad attitude why don't you go slice open a vein and get rid of some of those nasty spirits who are making you so mad

>>17003373
Nigger why the fuck are arguing this?? Anons post about his cannabis use after quiting H has nothing to do with whatever point you're trying to make. Get fucked

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>>17003389
I'll be seeing you in your nightmares

>>17003373
You must have a very special kind of autism. You can pretend pot is this miracle drug but unless you have cancer, the only reason people smoke pot is to get fucked up.

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>>17003412
You probably have a tumor in your brain from all that emotional abuse though

>>17003425
That's not how tumors work, spend more time reading about real science instead of your hocus pocus bull shit.

>>17003405
Shit album.

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>>17003447
>it's just random

>>17003455
Never heard it. Likely never will, thanks to you

>>17002948
>f so, what have you found works best to help curb the impulse to use?
there's literally yoga for this, why are you trying to invoke magic for mundane shit like this

like let me explain the catch 22 here - magic requires willpower, more than you would need to break an addiction - so you are asking for a technique that by default is more difficult than just dealing with it yourself and in most likely case will fail

>>17003522
damn, this is insightful shit

>>17003022
more drugs to help drug addiction?
stupid fuck

>>17005773
more drugs to control withdrawal symptoms, actually. the only thing that ends drug addiction is willpower. and if you knew what you were talking about you would know that one dose of any drug isn't going to get you addicted or going through withdrawal, excluding crack. it's continuing to take the drugs that gets you addicted. so please, shut your mouth if you don't know what you're talking about, anyone who can use drugs without them consuming their entire lives knows how useful my guide is.

>>17005773
Yeah, stupid fuck doesn't know that you could just cure your drug addiction with magic! Next thing you know he's gonna tell me I didn't actually buy that bridge in brooklyn...

>>17003022
Subs are poison.
I was on opiates for 10 years, then was on subs for a year and my health started deteriorating. Been off everything for 1 year now And feel great.
>>17003008
If the withdrawal is the main thing stopping you, when you get to day 2 or 3 try taking some kratom. It is how i was able to get off subs. If you do take it, keep it to only a week or 2.

Ive also taken shrooms once when i was in withdrawal and it helped while i was on them but after it was just as bad.

>>17005903
>more drugs to control withdrawal symptoms, actually
Exactly. I tried quitting h so many times but once the withdrawals got bad i broke every time. A lot of my friends are still addicted and its partly the fear of withdrawal stringing them along, but everyone has their own time to get clean.
I used to watch the show intervention, and would laugh at the guy who would say "hes gotta hit rock bottom". It is entirely true though

>>17002981
>plebs never heard of iboga

Drug addictions are fake

Using magic is a stupid way to do it

OP, fuck off

Why not try martial arts and harden the fuck up?

>>17003447
Someone has a dick up their ass. Damn.

>>17003035
Only alcohol cravings as far as we know not opiates or anything else. Works well for booze though.

>>17003228
There is a difference between the drugs. One is a tea with with great insight, the others are pills printed with dangerous toxins.

A good friend got off heroin by taking a huge dose of shrooms, 10 g. He reviewed his entire life from birth to the present and never used again. Your mileage may vary though.

>>17003333
I think he means cannabis is healthy Anon. Been used for centuries and still has proven to cure cancer, ptsd (similar to addiction in a different way), addictions, chronic pain, etc. The government is still blind but we are also talking about Cannabis in an oil form.
Sure smoking takes the edge off, but ingesting cannabis oil has shown to regrow brain cells.

>>17003412
Cannabis also prevents cancer growth. Also does countless other healthy benefits with no known negative effects.

>>17003039

GET A REALLY GOOD CITRINE ORGONE PYRAMID AND POINT IT AT YOUR SOLAR PLEXUS CHAKRA FROM BEHIND YOUR BACK AND SLEEP LIKE THAT FOR DAYS

>>17002948
Don't look outside for strength. I chain smoked for like 20 years, and quit cold turkey by pure force of will 8 years ago now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERNhWovJeYU

>>17002973
and create a psychedelic adiction

>>17002993
cigarettes

>>17003228
Ayahuasca is not a "drug" you're not supposed to take it recreationally it purges your body and probably your mind.

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Seems ibogaine is the best suited psychedelic.
It will generate a phase of dreaming and life self review. Seems difficult to get hold of this stuff as it is quite expensive.

>>17012601
i've heard it can be p dangerous and you basicly have to be in bed for a few days

Yeah there's this great spell called going to fucking rehab

dumbass

>>17013830
this anon is a fucking asshat but I have to agree with him. I've been 57 days clean of my 7 year IV heroin addiction and I've done it so far with the help of being monitored at a hospital, meds to control withdrawal while tapering down. And tons of support and encouragement. I've tried to quit over and over again by using drug replacement and I always end up progressing farther into my addiction. Buckle down and ask for help. There's no magic cure, getting clean is easy, staying clean is the hard part and don't let anyone tell you otherwise because only you know how difficult it is for yourself. You have to be ready and you have to be willing to PUT IN THE WORK. Surround yourself with positive reinforcement, an addict alone is in bad company. A day a time and easy does it. Good luck to you my dude. I wish you the best.

1 of 2

Dear OP, 12 days clean from opiates?
are you still here ITT? I'm a heroin addict, too.

please, please, IGNORE these anons:
>>17012601
>ibogaine
>>17012349
>Ayahuasca
>>17003196
>Ayahuasca
>>17002973
>psychedelics
>>17010345
>shrooms
>>17003241
>Acid

I'm sure they mean well. And these "trips" may have worked for them. There are a few rehab-type places around (a small few) that attempt to stop the addiction cycle with psychedelics. However, if you read up on these suggestions specifically you'll find that this way to treat opiate addiction is not recommended. Too many risks.

>>17008413
>kratom, shrooms

Now, re: kratom, I wonder, OP, are you in the U.S.?
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/19/10760892-asian-leaf-kratom-making-presence-felt-in-us-emergency-rooms

http://reset.me/story/kratom-addictive-heroin-can-used-save-addicts/

This is the first I've looked into kratom. I may see if I can't get it somehow, as I'm currently prescribed suboxone and in therapy, and would like a safer way to manage my recovery. (Unlike a few other anons here, I don't believe subs are toxic or poison, nor are they a way to get high. (Don't I wish!) Surely my health was much worse when I was shooting up every day). But I'm not a strong advocate for subs, I just think it's a better option than what some anons make it out to be. It worked well for me the first time I got clean. (The best way, imo, for sub use in heroin detox is to use it short term, around 2 weeks - with a rapid tapering down, and then off, done - done with everything.)

And listen to these anons:
>>17003022
>Opiates: clonidine, gabapentin, and loperamide.
This anon knows what's up. These medicines are great for withdrawal symptoms - particularly when the symptoms are milder/less intense. They'll take the edge off

hi

a friend of mine quit heroin cold turkey. he said that in perspective it wasnt that hard and you just have to put up with a few days of unbearable pain. he's been clean for years but often says that if he had a good source he would jump back in

>>17014428
2 of 2

>>17003022
>Opiates: clonidine, gabapentin, and loperamide.

These will take the edge off of the first 3 days of intense withdraw from H. But if you're at 12 days and suffering post acute withdrawal symptoms, lingering symptoms, these medicines will work wonders for you. See your PCP, or head to an urgent care as soon as possible, tell them what's going on and ask for them.

well, you can get loperamide (immodium) over the counter. neurontin (gabapentin) may be troublesome to get - all depends on the doctor. A suboxone doctor (if you can actually get in to see one without waiting 3 months, they would likely prescribe these without issue for you.) a week's worth of clonidine (ask for 0.1mg one-to-three-times/day as needed, minimum, or look into the dosage and see what you think will work.)
I'd also ask for zofran (ondansetron) for nausea!

>>17003035
>Naltrexone
THIS... OP, if you are 12 days clean, GET A NALTREXONE SHOT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. VIVITROL. look into it. find it. find a doc that will give it to you. get insurance that will pay for it, or work out a payment plan. but DO IT. it is the BEST WAY TO STAY CLEAN your first year. at least. believe me.

>>17003274
>Ive been mainlining heroin for 6 years
This anon sounds the most like me. Been using at least as long. I disagree about the sub/methadone, but if psychedelics are OK (I don't think they are, but), if they are ok for some people some of the time, it's like the anon said:
>psychs will help you quit but will power will keep you clean.
Congrats to you on getting clean to this anon, with or without a gay date. ;)

>>17013830
>rehab

is always an option. particularly if you need to be seen urgently, or need to be somewhere were you can stay clean and safe. you can always leave when you've gotten what you need.

also, exercise. daily. you can become addicted to endorphin's, "runner's high" quickly, and it's awesome.

meditate. take time every single day to do things that

>>17014465
guess I'm going 3/3

(almost done, actually)

mediate daily.
do simple pleasurable things you enjoy. long, hot showers. drawing, coloring, music, whatever you enjoy.
be kind to yourself.
you will remember how to feel good without drugs, i promise you. (I know how impossible that is to believe right now. it really does get easier.)
journal.
make a list of reasons/people/things why you don't want to use and refer to it when needed.
make a list of people you can call when you feel like using.
drink a lot of fluids. eat well. sleep on a regular schedule. keep to it.

From one addict to another,
Best of Luck, OP! <3

p.s. GET THE SHOT!

>>17002948
>Any anons have experience using magic or ritual to help combat drug addiction
>or addictive behaviors?

I'm a hypnotherapist. I use the RRR process to get people to quit.

Resource: find the resources in the client that allow them to quit.

Regress: find the original, root cause of the behavior and have the client
relive it with new understanding.

Reintegrate: resolve all inner conflicts relating to the issue using parts
therapy.

This process takes anywhere from one to six sessions, 2-4 on average.

>If so, what have you found works best to help curb the impulse to use?

Yeah. Solving the issue which causes the impulse in the first place. No root
cause, no impulse.

Interestingly, I've worked with smokers, alcohol, speed, DXM and codeine
addicts, and none of them had withdrawal symptoms after the second session
(regression + beginning parts therapy).

I've also had the pleasure of experimenting with an alcohol addict. Heavy hand
trembling, face all swelled up, the works. Had him drink a glass of water
believing it to be vodka, in trance. The symptoms stopped.

So yes, I do think there's a very large part of addiction that is purely
psychological, perhaps even much greater than the physical part (albeit in the
case of alcohol the physical component is immense).

Been wondering the same thing

(Age)
18 shooting heroin, hydromorphone, oxymorphone
19.5 shooting Suboxone
20 shooting heroin
22 oral methadone
24-current - still tapering methadone

Psychedelics help, gabapentin )neurontin) works wonders, as well as loperamide, hydroxyzine, and clonidine for acute WD.

Oh and weed, especially well made baked/oral is amazing. Helps the physical and mental pain while also having a psychedelic aspect to make you get out of your mental rut

Overal though exercise is the best help. Sucks the first month but go do weight lifting for an hour 4-6x per week and it will save. Your. Life.

Eat healthy, sleep healthy.

>>17003522
Can't agree with you there brah. Magic includes shamanism, which includes
hypnosis and hypnotherapy, by nature.

>>17005903
>the only thing that ends drug addiction is willpower

Much to the contrary. Willpower is much weaker than you'd think. Why do you
think so many people fail to do what they set out to?

They focus their willpower "I will do X, I will do X", but if they get
distracted, all that focus is gone. X is entirely lost to them.

Success lies with habits and our subconscious mind, which controls those habits.

>>17010345
That sounds like an intensely emotional and therapeutic trip.

>>17010350
>cure cancer
Cancer is a symptom, not an illness.

>>17014483
>you will remember how to feel good without drugs, i promise you

This is so important I can't stress it enough (I always take a huge chunk of
the parts therapy bit to get there).
>>17015058
>Eat healthy, sleep healthy.

And do clean drugs.

>>17015046
That's awesome, though with heavy (real) opiate addiction, benzos, barbs, and alcohol, not as much.

Though all addictions start and end with the mental spect, of course

I've had people tell me to "just quit" my years long IV heroin habit, or my 30-50mg/day etizolam habit... Lol. Clean-ish now though, except methadone as prescribed

>>17015066
>That's awesome, though with heavy (real) opiate addiction, benzos, barbs, and alcohol, not as much.

Well, the guy who trains me highly disagrees on that. That said, it does certainly take time to get over things.

As for the pain you guys mention, just realize that hypnosis can also cause anaesthesia. I do pain management too, but only with a doctor's notice (because pain is important etc. etc.).

>>17003022
Can vouch for loperamide. I have a life long disability, was on opiates most of my life, started actually abusing them around '08. Every time I'd get my monthly scrip, I'd rail through them in a few days and withdraw for most of the rest of the month. So I was experiencing withdrawals once a month for years.

Read online that a huge dose of loperamide (anti diarrheal meds) helped quell the explosive brown water shits. Took about 5 times the dose on the package before withdrawals set in and was able to ride out the shakes within a day or two. Your results may vary.

>>17002948

Never really thought about using magic to combat drug addiction but if theres one thing I have and know it's drug addiction. This would be a good opportunity to apply theoretical magick to an observable condition, I will go about it and may report back if any positive results are observed.

To cure addictions is to cure craving and at base the cause of all disease.

>>17002948

My advice to you is to stop being a bitch. Just don't allow yourself to get addicted and you won't and if you are addicted just quit. It's that simple faggot.

>>17015246

That's some cute tough love jibe you got going there, even though you've misunderstood addiction.

>>17015240
I'll be interested in seeing your method and how it compares to conventional 5-phase therapy.

>>17015256

Naw homie, I didn't misunderstand shit. Your reply says you don't understand. Think about it harder. AND FOR FUCK SAKES, It only comes off as tough love jibe to people who are weak. This blows my mind every time.

>>17015266

What do you know so far about the 5-phase therapy?

Chances are the methods I'll use wouldn't be able to be applied by others without the foreknowledge of what exactly is being applied, rendering them somewhat incomparable in terms of practicality. Still, it is a starting point.

>>17015270

Look, your ego kicking sticks. Tomojo

>>17015280

Holy smokes you're retarded

>>17015282

Holy smokes you're retarded.

>>17015287

Holy smokes you're retarded

>>17015288

Yep. You're definitely broken. lol fun playing.

>>17015300

That sounds like I win anon.

>>17015304

You can believe what you want, I rest easy in the base fact you're half an inch from retarded. I believe in you though.

>>17015306

Your desperate words of loss are paradise on my brain-ears. Keep losing anon, I love it.

>>17015280
>What do you know so far about the 5-phase therapy?

Everything there is to know. I'm a hypnotherapist, after all.

It goes like this:
>Stress management (teaching self-hypnosis, establishing trance)
>Regression (identifying the root issue and neutralizing it)
>Parts Therapy I (releasing emotional hang-ups at those who hurt the patient)
>Parts Therapy II (releasing emotional hang-ups at the parts of oneself causing
>the issue)
> Parts Therapy III (evaluating secondary benefits derived from having the
>problem)


>Chances are the methods I'll use wouldn't be able to be applied by others
>without the foreknowledge of what exactly is being applied, rendering them
>somewhat incomparable in terms of practicality. Still, it is a starting point.

I really doubt it, to be honest. I'm certain that whatever process you use will
fit into either 5-phase or RRR quite readily.

>>17015270
>It only comes off as tough love jibe to people who are weak

Look man, that's the thing. Everyone is weak in some way. Addiction is a way of
coping with emotional distress, of filling in those things which should be
provided for naturally with a substitute.

For example, the guy whom I worked with on Codeine addiction was a NEET, had
entirely no social presence, felt alienated and all over miserable (due to
childhood events which made him particularly susceptible to that kind of
emotional reaction). The Codeine was a coping mechanism helping him function
and not be depressed 24/7.

Now that we solved that issue (4 months ago), he's clean, has a gf, and is
studying to be an IT tech.

Weakness isn't inherent. It's learned.

>>17015316

See where yours is a fair and logistic step-by-step method of working through an issue it still depends upon the tools of your ego, it is still a relinquishing of will to the automatic mind, further encouraging your blind autonomy.

I am going to attempt to perform an action of will that happens as a True Event of the mind, like a life changing event but as simulated completely by Will only.

>>17015324
You should psychotic. Please define the words you use so I might understand.

>>17015329

See, you're a trained cage, trained to see cages, trained to treat cages, and you are steely. I am not a cage.

If you're learned you'd know what will is, you'd know True, you'd know what an event is.

>>17015332
See that's the thing. You've entirely no clue what you're talking about, and you don't realize it yet.

You can't even define the words you use.

>>17015332
>>17015333

Both are confirmed retarded.

>>17015333

Alas, with all respect to you, it is you at this time who cannot define. I might speak on broad terms for the clinically learned.

A guided meditation meticulously designed, through certain techniques, to alter specific afflictions, in this context the affliction being addiction. This requires having the practice of directing will; think of it a recipe of mental functions combined and applied to heat (thought, will) to create a meal of Truth. That is, of course, that addiction is a destructive illusion. Once the 'meal' is 'eaten' the illusion is dispersed and addiction no longer occurs.

>>17015346

Alas? You really are fucking retarded.

>>17015347

It's a word, and you need to calm down son.

>>17015348

Maximum retard achieved. You're not autistic like people always say about this board, you're just a stupid as fuck neck-beard.

>>17015350

Well I'm still open to discussion, not gonna let the thread get derailed by this strangely persistent person.

>>17015346
So basically a self-guided metaphor meditation. You could have said as much.

Care to be more specific about the process?

Also why call the addiction an "illusion"? I mean, if you're going to do that, you might as well call the feeling of being loved an illusion as well, and be done with it.

>>17015357

Man, people with names on this board are the worst. Do you actually think you're somebody? Do you get some kind of ego-boost from this? Answer honestly.

>>17015357

>you might as well call the feeling of being loved an illusion as well, and be done with it.

That's not really the theme of discussion atm, addiction is a glitch in logic, a switch that sets one in pursuit of a fix by means of temporary relief. The logic believes in the temporary fix as a permanent solution, but due to the fact that the permanent solution is in fact a small term cycle, a break in logic occurs - this is paradoxical to logic - and the disease of all illogical behaviour proceeds this. This is a universal issue.

The process of fixing the affliction might involve linguistic impressions, purposeful inventions using the coding of letters to re-hack the illusion put in place by the mind. This, and visual imagery that is purely conceptual that requires the knowledge; this is partly mathematical and spatial.It is going to be a case of throwing mud to the wall to see what sticks.

>>17015360
>Do you actually think you're somebody?

Yes, I am somebody. As is everyone.

>Do you get some kind of ego-boost from this?

What do you mean by ego-boost?

>>17015364

YIKES. Sad neck-beard confirmed.

>>17015363
>addiction is a glitch in logic, a switch that sets one in pursuit of a fix by means of temporary relief

That's wrong. Addiction is a temporary patch for emotional gaps. If something is missing in your life, you fix it by using. BUT if you fill that emotional gap, you cease using, because there's no need any more.

Addictions are very logical and straightforward, in fact.

The process of fixing addicts is by providing them with the values they lack and derive from using in a healthy and constructive manner.

Trying to remove your "need" as an "illusion" will most certainly backfire on you. Keep that in mind when you do that.

>>17015365
I'm actually very happy, to be honest.

>>17015368

While I agree with you in part, It depends whether you want the dog to follow the tail or not.

But what you say is duly noted and your ideas will be brought into the practice.

>>17015386
>It depends whether you want the dog to follow the tail or not.

What do you mean?

>>17015387

He means you're fucking retarded.

>>17015387

How can one pursue desire when in an illusory cycle of desire? How can one seek happiness when it is already known? The tail follows the dog.

You'd like for the dog to follow the tail.

>>17015397

I'm not sure if you're talking a retard around in a circle or are a retard yourself, either way good troll.

>>17015401

You're starting to grow on me kid. Stick around.

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How the fuck does one even get addicted to anything?
How degenerate and weak do you have to be?

>>17015417

Agreed. Fucking pussies.

>>17015076
Well for benzos, barbs, and alcohol, the withdrawals can literally kill you, and give you permanent brain damage, seizures, etc. I believe the mind is a powerful thing but that's like saying hypnotists can cure cancer, the physical withdrawal to some of these drugs is incredibly powerful, and somebody saying you can get past them with mental play likely had never been heavily addicted to them.

Opiates, sure they won't kill you ( exceptmethadone possibly, which stops adrenaline as well as being an opioid, so the withdrawals can fry your heart) but kicking a heavy (I mean legit heavy, years long IV heroin, hydromorphone, oxymorph, oxycodone, where you puke, shit, and sneeze while your goosebumps threaten to tear your skin they are so tight) again, not sure if you can get past that with a great attitude.

>>17015565
>the withdrawals can literally kill you, and give you permanent brain damage
It's not withdrawals that cause brain damage, it's the belief that if you drink a little less each day you'll eventually quit.
Alcohol is a mild neurotoxin, why would ceasing its consumption suddenly cause brain damage, as opposed to continuing taking it?

>>17015565
>Well for benzos, barbs, and alcohol, the withdrawals can literally kill you, and give you permanent brain damage, seizures, etc.

That's why I only work once it's sorted with medical professionals. I don't work with them without medical referral.

>hypnotists can cure cancer

To some extent. Stephen Parkhill does hypnotherapy with terminally ill people, often successfully, provided the issue is rooted in the psyche.

>kicking a heavy (I mean legit heavy, years long IV heroin, hydromorphone, oxymorph, oxycodone, where you puke, shit, and sneeze while your goosebumps threaten to tear your skin they are so tight) again, not sure if you can get past that with a great attitude.

Attitude isn't the issue. Two points here:

A) Withdrawal symptoms can be entirely (or almost entirely) eliminated using hypnosis.

B) Kicking physical withdrawals is done under medical supervision. I'm not qualified to prescribe anything, so I always take a doctor's notice that it's safe to proceed with hypnotherapy in particular directions.

>>17015597
Hypnosis is a fucking joke m8.

>>17015602
How so?

>>17015609
Jesus christ anon, do you really believe you can make someone do anything by waggling a watch or have them recline on a seat and talking to them?
If it would be real and effective, why wouldn't police hire hypnotists? Why wouldn't the CIA/KGB/whatever use hypnosis?
Not to mention, CIA tried using LSD in MKUltra and noted it as a gargantuan failure, you cannot convince people to something they don't want to believe in. A druggie will forever stay a druggie unless he genuinely wants to be clean.

>>17015615
>do you really believe you can make someone do anything by waggling a watch or have them recline on a seat and talking to them?

I don't believe it. I know it. I highly recommend that you read Dave Elman's "Hypnotherapy" book on the subject; it will clear up the misunderstandings you have about the process.

>If it would be real and effective, why wouldn't police hire hypnotists?

Because of the risk of false memories. It *is* being used, however it requires that the hypnotist has specialized training towards that end. I don't do forensics, and instead am specializing towards medical hypnosis -- anaesthesia, boosting the immune system, etc. etc.

>Why wouldn't the CIA/KGB/whatever use hypnosis?

They do. The KGB actually has been disbanded. They're called SVR nowadays, just fyi.

>Not to mention, CIA tried using LSD in MKUltra and noted it as a gargantuan failure, you cannot convince people to something they don't want to believe in.

Two points.
A) You didn't specify which LSD experiments you're referring to. The experiments using LSD to heighten subjects' susceptibility to suggestion were a massive success. Nowadays, however, Ambien or barbiturates are used, for the most part, as far as I know.

B) Without drugs, you are absolutely correct, you cannot convince anyone of anything they don't want to be convinced of. In deep hypnotic trance, however, almost everyone will relax their grip on things they'll accept. The hard limit, in my experience, is core values, oftentimes religious.

>A druggie will forever stay a druggie unless he genuinely wants to be clean.

Drug addiction is a symptom, not a disease in and of itself.

>>17015636

>Drug addiction is a symptom, not a disease in and of itself.

Blurring the lines a little. If you forcefully expose a body to, say, Morphine, over a short time it would become addicted and upon ceasing exposure the body would experience great discomfort. Exposure to morphine would subvert this discomfort. Ergo, drug addiction cannot be a symptom of a condition unless you're talking behaviorally such as a person with depression is more likely to abuse substances and that's not much of a revelation at all.

In your work it is beneficial for you to see drug addiction as a behavioral symptom, and not a psycho-physiological condition, because then you have the cure.

>>17015636
>The experiments using LSD to heighten subjects' susceptibility to suggestion were a massive success.
Oh boy I can't wait for you to source that because I read the COMPLETE OPPOSITE a while ago. It didn't work and they got a shitton of butthurt from the public about it.
I'm waiting.

>>17015872
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Suggestibility

Literally 5 seconds in Google.

>>17015854
>If you forcefully expose a body to, say, Morphine, over a short time it would become addicted and upon ceasing exposure the body would experience great discomfort. Exposure to morphine would subvert this discomfort.

Correct. The mechanism (as far as the brain is concerned) is this: particular brain receptors are overloaded with an external substance. So the brain stops producing the substance itself, instead relying on the external source. If you can make the brain produce the substance or otherwise activate those receptors, the external source becomes redundant.

In terms of endogenous opiates, they're released into the brain when the patient undergoes hypnotic anaesthesia; I don't have a source on me right now, so you can ignore this part if you like -- their release can alternatively be stimulated by causing a deep enough hypnotic trance; the Esdaile or Sichort states, in particular.

Both are also very conducive to neuroplasticity, bringing the patient to health quicker than otherwise would be possible.

>>17015969

Was thinking about this the other day, it's very synchronous you would bring it up.

Go through the basics of the so-called Esdaile and Sichort states

>>17015969
>first source is literally worthless and doesn't prove in any logical way that LSD makes a person easier to persuade, they took a bunch of loonies and told them to sway back and forth while ignoring taped voice and they did, wow, such suggestability!
>second source
>Although these results confirm speculations previously made in the literature that LSD-25 may increase suggestibility, it must be emphasized that they cannot be generalized beyond the specific type of suggestibility measured.
>may
>cannot be generalized
EVIDENCE

Meanwhile
>LSD was eventually dismissed by MKUltra's researchers as too unpredictable in its results
tl;dr it doesn't fucking work.
Stop trying to believe what you want to believe and believe the facts instead.
Hypnosis is fucking bullshit and LSD doesn't work. It doesn't "open your mind", it doesn't let you become more "spiritual", it just makes you trip fucking balls because you're letting a foreign volatile chemical interact with your brain.

>>17015998
Esdaile (a.k.a. hypnotic coma). Basically you're in such a deep trance that you feel so absolutely wonderful that you stop giving a fuck about anything. You're literally relaxed enough to not want to stop being that relaxed, so you just sit and drool happily.

That's what hypnotists used to be scared of, that someone "won't wake up". Nowadays we just use the so-called "hypnotic threat" to bring people out. It's basically "I will count to three, and if you're not awake by then, I'll give you such suggestions that will prevent you from going into that deep and pleasant a trance ever again". They usually wake up instantly on "one".

It's characterized by a waxy quality to the skeletal muscles (you can move people around like dolls, their limbs stay as you set them), and complete relaxation otherwise. Also complete, automatic anaesthesia.

Sichort is a step further. You take the hypnotee into an even deeper state of relaxation. They're still awake and aware, but they're relaxed (mentally and physically) like a sleeping infant. We're talking complete anaesthesia, complete rag-doll relaxation.

The best part is, in Sichort, you can give direct suggestions to the organism, and they take hold. So you can go like "I'd like you to restart producing and releasing the substances that you need, so that John can be free from the use of morphine" (or whatever the substance is). Of course, it's not instant, and you might need to repeat the suggestion a few times, but that's basically how things go.

It's also the state you want to work with when you have patients with cancer -- according to the OMNI institute in that state, a person can heal from 6 to 10 times faster. I haven't tested it yet, but that's the claim.

>>17016019

Read up on Freud's cousin Edward Bernays.

>>17016034
>read up on Y
>read up on X
Fuck off, just because it's on paper doesn't make it worthwhile, otherwise you can take the torah and quoran as fact books.

File: autism.png (26KB, 187x200px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 187x200px

>>17016019
>it must be emphasized that they cannot be generalized beyond the specific type of suggestibility measured
Which, if you read the paper, it says "primary suggestibility", which is "hypnotic suggestibility".

That's what we're talking about, tard.


>>LSD was eventually dismissed by MKUltra's researchers as too unpredictable in its results
>tl;dr it doesn't fucking work.

So you're saying "unpredictable results" means "doesn't work"?
IT LITERALLY SAYS THEY HAD RESULTS. They were unpredictable, but results nevertheless.

>Stop trying to believe what you want to believe and believe the facts instead.
You should certainly listen to this advice yourself.

>Hypnosis is fucking bullshit

ijceh.com <-- accredited by the APA.

>and LSD doesn't work.

Yes. It makes you trip balls. Tripping balls makes you more suggestible.

>It doesn't "open your mind", it doesn't let you become more "spiritual",

That has never been in question.

>it just makes you trip fucking balls because you're letting a foreign volatile chemical interact with your brain.

Yes, that's the point. That makes you more susceptible to direct, simple suggestions. As does weed and a ton of other stuff.

>>17016040
>pic related

>>17016043
>hypnotic suggestibility
And they proven that the test subjects were suggestible how?
By swaying back and forth, as they were told to?

>>17016043
>IT LITERALLY SAYS THEY HAD RESULTS
Like a guy falling off a building and running across DC convinced he's being chased by a huge animal.

Extremely useful in hypnosis. What you need the most in order to hypnotize someone is to convince him you're a fucking talking animal.

>>17002973
This

>>17016040
What about the bible?

>>17016072

How exactly does that work?

>>17016093
I wouldn't take bible as 100% fact either, rather as a collection of life teachings and allegories.
It has some really good life advice, like investing your money instead of letting it rot.

>>17016063
>And they proven that the test subjects were suggestible how?
Using the Stanford scale, you enormous ignorant.
You didn't even read the paper, did you?

>>17016071
As above. You didn't even read it.

>>17016118
How does Stanford scale even relate to suggestability?

>>17016144
ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~kihlstrm/PDFfiles/Hypnotizability/SHSSC%20Script.pdf

Hypnosis is a state of heightened suggestibility.

>>17015417
>>17015424
hope both you faggots have kids and that they become addicted to heroin. also, you both are probably fat. ignorant assholes.

>>17018325

Calm yourself neck-beard.

>>17018399
Dubs of truth

>>17018995

AW YEEEAAAAAH DUB DUBS
We are synchronized against the frustrated neck-beards. We are now shaved-neck brothers.

>>17002981
/thread

>>17015585
Heavy and consistent seizures from lacking GABA can fuck you up permanently.

My friend tried to cold turkey benzos at home. He lasted 3 days and was never the same. Serious cognitive issues. And yeah cherry picking cases but read up on it, actually pretty scary. I had to kick benzos and it was no joke.