64 colors

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This is where shit gets weird, apparently they COULD have supported more colors, but chose not to.
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?20499-The-Colour-palette

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>>4234531

Is there any decision so bad that even Sega will not make it?

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Also worth noting is that the Sega System C arcade board based on the Megadrive did in fact support 6 bajilions more simultaneous colors on-screen.
http://segaretro.org/Sega_System_C

>>4234534
Whether or not to buy a SNES mini?

64 was just fine for its time.

>>4234531
>Nintendo cheats out and goes for a slower CPU
>SEGA decides those colors are enough and hedges it's bet on CDs instead
Things couldn't possibly get any wor-
>Nintendo decides against CDs and sticks with low storage and costly cartridges instead
>SEGA makes an over-engineered system that's harder to developer for than the competition and costs more to produce as well.
>BOTH passed up on partnering with Sony and give rise to their greatest adversary.
Fuck.
>>4234539
>SEGA possibly passing up on scalping an item for guaranteed profit
Yeah that sounds like something their Japanese branch would do.

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>>4234508
Ecco is a beautiful game. used all 64 of those colors

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>>4234560
Talent can do some crazy things.

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>>4234560
>We will never see how an Ecco game for 32X or Saturn could have looked

>>4234569
>Ecco game for 32X
Ever heard of Kolibri? It's by the Novotrade team.

>>4234562
>Hyenas on the left are just lines instead of proper silhouettes
Eh, not the best example but it's clear how the SNES' lower resolution fucked ports up.

Also Ranger-X had godly colors for the system.

>>4234585
The question is did they draw vertical dithered lines because they thought it looked better or because they couldn't afford to draw a silhouette outline? I don't know.

>>4234585
Virgin reportedly made their games with shitty MD displays in mind (David Perry said it somewhere) so those lines were meant to be blurred into silhouettes because RF.

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>>4234576
>>4234569
Kolibri

>>4234609
>Only SNES beat em up that puts more than 3 baddies onscreen
WOAH

>>4234615
Genesis and PCE couldn't do much better, you know.

>>4234619
SOR 1 on hardest had 8/9 with no slowdown.

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shit sucked because of no matt furniss soundtrack

>>4234636
SOR had tiny sprites. They prioritized gameplay over graphics. I wish Final Fight on SNES did the same but then the game would look bad on magazine screenshots. Bah.

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>>4234636
Megadrive Sailor Moon had 4 enemies at once but only at certain points. I can't tell what allowed them to have an extra enemy.
Megadrive Growl/Runard featured quite a lot of enemies at screen at once. It's great.

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>>4234636
Alien Storm seems to get 4 simultaneous enemies at seldom spots too.

>>4234640
Well SOR 2 and 3 both have sprites that are closer in size to the SNES port of FF and the limit was at 5 iirc, while Super Double Dragon had even tinier sprites and I don't remember more than 3. This is a pretty fun thing to be autistic about.

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King of Dragons SNES could afford 4 enemies with tiny sprites.

>>4234665
It's not just sprite size, though, AI and animation also pays a toll. Also whenever the Sega Genesis gets more than 4 sprites in the same line counting your character, there's flickering everywhere. Which never happens on SNES.

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>>4234665
4 enemies

Pc engine had the best compromise of color palette. Genesis suffers from its low colors in some games and a lot of games end up looking dark and gritty

>>4234684
My bad, been years since I beat it. FF3 had 4 in some particular spots too.

>>4234685
Pc Engine only had a single background layer. It drew multiple backgrounds by wasting sprites.

>>4234689
It seems to only take out a fourth enemy when playing in 2 player mode. Single player only have 3 enemies like you said. I don't fucking know what's going on.

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>>4234679
I'm pretty sure King of Dragons gave no shits and just let graphical glitches and slowdown happen if you didn't kill the enemies fast enough

>>4234508
The real reason is that there was only enough room in 1988 inside the Genesis VDP for more color palette RAM or Master System video modes but not both.

Sega decided to go with the latter.

>>4234681
>It's not just sprite size, though, AI and animation also pays a toll. Also whenever the Sega Genesis gets more than 4 sprites in the same line counting your character, there's flickering everywhere. Which never happens on SNES.
This whole post is bullshit btw.

Technically a sprite is each 4x4 tile that comprises an object.

>>4234569
>there will never be a new sega console with a smash bros or mario kart style game featuring ecco as a playable character

>>4236618
Yeah anon, I also feel blessed to live in this timeline.

Seriously, I DON'T want more games like smash or Kart, they are only infuruating to me

>>4235723
what a mistake that was, I had a master system and saw no point in backwards compatibilty

>>4234508
I was about to make an Ecco thread. Weird.

>>4236637
>they are only infuruating to me
Like, you're upset that they exist or you can't help but play them and torture yourself?

>>4236674
Sega at that point made all of their systems backwards compatible with their previous systems. Much like how Master System worked with SG-1000 games.

You might not have seen much purpose in it, but it was a good strategy for places where the Master System was popular.

Sega originally planned to put a sprite/background scaling chip into the VDP too (which would have been superior to Mode 7 since it only does backgrounds) but they realized that it would make the VDP too expensive for their purposes. Remember, this was motherfucking 1988.

>>4234508

They were thinking that 99% of people were on RF, and you could use dithering to get the color gradients you need. As it happened, Genesis usually had the more colorful vibrant games while SNES games had this washed out pastel look to them.

>>4236734
>Sega originally planned to put a sprite/background scaling chip into the VDP too
Wish they had. A popular sprite scaling home console would've been cool.

>>4236741
>They were thinking that 99% of people were on RF
In third country like USA

>>4237184
True. They eventually recycled their work on that scaler and put it into the Sega CD, though. Sadly due to bandwidth limitations between the Sega CD and the Genesis VDP, that scaler chip can't reach its full potential. Literally cannot shit sprites faster enough into the VDP for 60 FPS unless they are relatively small.

>>4235798
You mean 8x8.

>>4234508
The Sega Genesis was released in 1989. While the SNES was released in 1991. So obviously an older system wouldn't be able to be on par with a newer system. For example the Sega Master System was superior to the NES because it came out a little later than the NES did.

>>4239001
>So obviously an older system wouldn't be able to be on par with a newer system
The Wii called.

In all seriousness, the SNES is better in some ways but worse in others. Resolution aside, the SNES PPU is better than the Genesis VDP due to 2 years of Moore's Law. And something like the SNES sound chip with its multiple reverbing ADPCM channels wasn't really possible for console-tier price in 1988. But Nintendo skimped on some fundamentals to put them into the SNES, which resulted in an under-par CPU and memory system.

>>4234545
From a business standpoint it made perfect sense why Nintendo went with carts. Using a CD drive would have increased the cost of the console by $100, cutting into Nintendo's bottom line. In contrast using carts not only allows for a cheaper console, but the increased cost of the carts is pushed onto the devs and publishers, not Nintendo. Nintendo also wanted to retain the ability to ration carts if needed, although they never ended up needing to. Nintendo is a greedy company that always likes to be in control and always will be, and sometimes that greed ends up biting them back.

>>4239219
>The Wii called
You mean the ultimate dust collector that no one plays? The only console that attracted more casuals than hardcore gamers? LOL

Anyways the Genesis may not be more powerful than a SNES, but what it lacks for in power, makes up for in games. Genesis had plenty of great games which is why I love the Genesis better than the SNES.

>>4239993
>You mean the ultimate dust collector that no one plays? The only console that attracted more casuals than hardcore gamers? LOL
You've missed my point. I was saying that just because a console is newer doesn't mean it's more powerful, like the Wii was less powerful than the 360...

>>4234531
>This is where shit gets weird, apparently they COULD have supported more colors, but chose not to.

The RAM would've cost a lot in 1988.

The funny thing is that Genesis VDP not only allowed for external CRAM allowing for double the palette, but also for 128k VRAM. Both features were left unused in the Genesis. Teradrive used 128k vram and the arcade C2 system had external CRAM, but I don't know if any software ever used either.

I keep thinking they should've allowed for double pcb carts neogeo style in the Genesis 2. Normal cart has no enhancements, fits in either models. Double girth carts have an extra pcb, that house bonus ram for more colours and doubles the VRAM. If there's space left they could also add cpu interrupt lines there to make cart based enhancements actually fucking work.

Or hell, just make all of those normal features for the MD2, with programmers being able to select support for enhanced hardware.

>>4240005
Your original statement was the exact opposite. Go back and read it again.

You didn't just move the goalposts, you replaced them with marshmallows.

>>4240005
Ah, that makes sense. I forgot that the Wii came a year after the Xbox 360 did. Being that the Wii was as powerful as the Gamecube, it really couldn't measure up against the Xbox 360 or the PS3. It's a shame too, because I think the Wii could have benefited from HD graphics.

>>4240579
The Wii was slightly more powerful than the GameCube.

>>4239993
>The only console that attracted more casuals than hardcore gamers? LOL
That's true for most home consoles dumbass, especially for anything that isn't stupidly niche.
>>4240591
It had something like double the ram and clock speed of the GameCube but that's about it. There's a reason developers described it as "two gamecubes taped together".

>>4240591
True.

>>4240614
>That's true for most consoles...
False. It was only true for one console, was the Wii because of Wii Fit. They had since moved onto mobile gaming.

>>4240720
You think the "Family Computer" didn't attract casuals up for a little Mario?

>>4241556
It only attracted kids, who grew up to be a bunch of 30 something year olds making youtube videos about retro video games. Definitely not casual, but they are annoying as shit.

>>4242524
You watch Japanese youtube videos?

>>4243406
No.

>>4235723

i think i read that before somewhere, and yes what a tragic decision :(

>>4236741
>while SNES games had this washed out pastel look to them

i always hated the washed out Super Famicom/Snes look. That and the creepy slow cpu.

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only 64 colors

>>4234508
So, is it just me or could Ecco have benefited from a little bit more play testing? It seems really rough gameplay wise.

>>4243564
>creepy
You're afraid of a cpu or something?

>>4243909
It's insanely hard even for the time. I like it.