Holy fuck why are these so expensive.

Niche market and limited production run.

Also youtube e celebs promoting the hell out of it.

>>4230064
They are going OOP.

One of the microprocessors they use is going out of production and they currently have no way to replicate it's function. They literally can't make more.

>>4230072
Jesus christ, you normies act like a component hitting its end of life is some kind of rare and apocalyptic event. Shit happens constantly, it's a minor nuisance to adjust the design the work with a different chip. You're talking an afternoon of work.

>>4230064
People like you throwing money away

>>4230072
You make it sound like the company isn't going to produce an upgraded model with newer components after they finish selling the current one. Why would you expect an electronics company that isn't Nintendo to just give up production of one of their best selling products? They will make a new model, trust me. Until then you can just order from Solarisjapan to avoid price gouging

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>>4230064
You people waste shit loads of money on these scalers just to play on a LCD/Flat TV/Plasma TV while there are CRT's scattered around everywhere and go for like 20$...

>>4230110
But if you're in the US you'll never get RGB. Only shitty composite and maybe Svideo

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>>4230092

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>>4230114
Damn, what a bummer.

>>4230114
Component is the second best before RGB.

>>4230124
YPbPr is mathematically identical to RGB

>>4230110

Because I want to lay back on my couch and play on a 60 inch TV not sit on the floor huddled around a 15 inch TV like I was 7 years old again.

>>4230064

Is it worth getting a serious upscaler such as this for say dreamcast/ps2/etc?

>not being CRT MASTER RACE

>>4230148
No. They can output a true progressive scan signal. If for some reason you don't like how your display handles 480p you can get a much cheaper "line doubler" that will do what you want smoother or faster or with fake scanlines or whatever.

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>>4230135
Who the fuck wants to play retro games on a 60 inch TV? 25~30 inch is already good enough and there are CRT's with that size.

>>4230128
How much you know about math?

>>4230153

How do you get 6th gen consoles to output progressive scan?

>>4230161
Over component or VGA. In the case of the Gamecube, to keep its price low they left out the encoder and put it in the cable itself making those cables rare and expensive so I recommend just using a Wii to play GC (it's hard compatible)

There are sometimes some hacks you may need to do on some games to put them into 480p. It was the wild frontier, but if you work at it a little you can play almost any 6th gen game in 480p.

Alright so does the ps3 component cable work with the ps2, and even the ps1? I dont think that A/V Out port on the back of the playstation changed in 15 years did it?

>>4230250
it will work with the ps2. I might be wrong with this but I think it will also work with a PS1, but you won't get any better image quality compared to composite.

>>4230128
Even if you conceive of it as Y, B-Y, R-Y, it's not "mathematically equivalent" because of the way you need to calculate Y. Any method of combining R, G, and B such as Y = (R+G+B)/3 causes you to lose some color resolution. If the sum of RGB is not modulo 3, your Y is essentially rounded up or down. If you tried to convert back to RGB you would no longer have enough information to describe the smallest changes in any one color channel.

Conceptually this is similar to a comparison of RGB and HSV. You can open up the color picker in paint right now and see how the HSV representation is not sensitive to changes in RGB on the order of the smallest unit of difference (i.e., one bit, 1/255 in this example although the principle applies to analog color mixing as well).

>>4230260
>>4230250
PS1 doesn't support component, only RGB. So that ps3/ps2 component cable won't work the way you want.

>>4230250
>>4230327
>>4230260

S-video is fine. Much higher quality than composite, and most people shouldn't be able to differentiate between S-video and component.

>>4230160
>>4230297
I probably don't have as much math as you do but it seems to me that the principle of significant figures doesn't necessarily apply to an all-analog signal displayed on an analog output and being evaluated by our analog eyes. Maybe I'm wrong? Honestly not sure.

>>4230260
>>4230250
If you use a PS2/PS3 component video cable on a PS1 you'll get RGB video over it because the same pins on the output are used for both, switched through software on the PS2/3 but not switchable on the PS1 it's actually a super cheap way to get RGB into a pro CRT that has BNCs (assuming the display will accept composite as sync)

>>4230376
>it seems to me that the principle of significant figures doesn't necessarily apply to an all-analog signal
Consider that there is some limit to the sensitivity of the circuit that decodes the signal. That is, there is some minimum level of signal that the circuit can detect. Even though it's an analog signal the color resolution is not infinite, and is in fact limited by that smallest-detectable-unit-of-change. That is one of the reasons RGB and YUV are only approximately equivalent.

>>4230415
I can see your argument but we have to also consider that in video games the signal originates as digital color so in the case of even a system like SNES (15-bit color) there is only a palette of 32,768 colors and I suspect that the analog circuitry in a CRT has a physical limit to its accuracy some orders of magnitude greater, enough to tolerate even maybe a couple transcodings. The theory is about as far as my math goes. I might be able to track down some kind of study on the physical color space of some CRT or other but I wouldn't begin to know how to calculate how much would be needed to tolerate transcoding. My instincts tell me it's getting into the level that things like the ambient lighting of the room or even the varying quality of the glass of tubes would effect it more than the transcoding - but admittedly I'm basing a lot of that on supposition.

>>4230064
Because it's being sold by people who want to scam you out of your money. You're better off gaming on emulators, while having your non-HD retro consoles up for display only.

>>4230297
retro games don't have that high of color depth man

>>4230454
Thanks for the independent confirmation!

>>4230441
>>4230454
Good point, we could probably use a version of the Nyquist sampling theorem to prove that the conversion to YUV wouldn't cause any collisions (i.e. no two unique original colors would be displayed as the exact same color after the conversion).

>>4230159
CRT's have a limited lifespan, and the people who know how to fix them are quickly dying out.

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>>4230064
There are alternatives. You get what you pay for.

>>4230064
My friend has one, and it's the best upscaler I've ever seen.

>>4230498
its cheap, cause its shit.

>>4230114
>But if you're in the US you'll never get RGB. Only shitty composite and maybe Svideo
Then you have already lost. Play video games, don't jerk off over pixels.

>>4230159
I have a 42 inch and yes I'd rather play on that in comfort, sitting on the sofa with my chums than sat huddled around a bulky CRT in the corner of a tiny spare room.

>>4230505
It is really good, worth every penny imo. I know people baulk at the price but there's nothing out there that does the job anywhere near as well - except maybe the OSSC and with that it's a crapshoot whether your TV will be compatible with anything over the 480p output. Mine wasn't so I cancelled my pre-order.

>>4230628
Not him but all those inches don't count since you're not using all of the flatscreen since retro games rarely support 16:9. That would be more like a 32 inch CRT screen which are highly widspread. CRT screens generally sound smaller than they are because of the vertical space.

I agree with your points, however tacking on this scenario of a large screen LCD vs small shitty CRT is invalid and not a legitimate point.

>>4230640
(continued)
Here's a good website, it's actually 34 inches CRT corresponds to 42 inch flatscreen. That's the right comparison.
http://www.screenmath.com/

Again I agree that it might be a good idea for you, just that your reasoning about "huddling around a 15" CRT" is bogus.

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Just buy pic related instead. I got mine for $35, and games look fucking amazing through it. I get to sit back on my couch and be comfy and play on my 60 inch. Text is nice and sharp and colors are actually correct.

inb4
>b-but m-muh input lag tho?

I haven't noticed it, and I play fighters and bullet hells through it. When I have my buddy over to do 2 player with, he hasn't complained about any.

Before you jump into the deep end and buy the xrgb, dip your toe in first and try pic related. It's only $35-$45 these days so even if you don't like it for whatever reason it's not like your broke for it. I was planning on getting the xrgb at first, but after getting pic related I don't care about getting one now because this dose what I want.

>>4230681

Mine definitely caused input lag to the point were I was falling off every platform before a jump.

>>4230297
>>4230415
Fucking kek kid. Hopefully when you're back to school in a few days they'll teach you that there are numbers that aren't integers.

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>>4230954
Are you kidding me? It has nothing to do with integers. Y is typically given as a value between 0 and 1. There is still some limitation to the sensitivity of the instrument. As has already been pointed out, that limit of sensitivity is quite a bit smaller than the smallest color difference in the palette of a retro game console.

Why not use an old line doubler/quadrupler like a Faroudja LD-100/VP-400 or scaler? Those things cost like $20k in the 90s and the lag can't be that bad, and they cost nothing if you find one in an honest auction or shit (not the inflated buy it now).

No fancy hdmi, just VGA however.

>>4230064
if you're not sitting indian style on the floor of your unfinished basement in front of your comfy 14" crt using composite you aren't doing it right

>>4230065
>youtube e celebs promoting the hell out of it

Who? I remember CGR doing a review on it, but he specifically said never to buy it unless you're a professional or have the money to burn, and outright told people to get a cheap alternative.

>>4231037
There's also that series "getting the best look out of your X" that shills it a lot.

The thing is not some type of hidden gem.

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OH GOD!
THE AUTISM!
THE HORRIBLE AUTISM!
THE PEOPLE WHO LEGITIMATELY BELIEVE THEY CAN FUCKING TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 50,000 SHADES OF SANIC BLUE!

JESUS SAVES! LEARN TO SWIM!

>>4230297
That's irrelevant for analog RGB.

>>4230496
Christ how underage are you? Widespread HDTV adoption really only happened in the last 10 years.

>>4231058
Fair enough, I figured this was going to be another episode of 'let's shit on CGR for bringing attention to a hidden gem and raising the value of it' again.

>>4231067
Just because you can't see for shit doesn't mean others can't either, otherwise better quality screens wouldn't be selling point on smartphones.

>>4230334
S-video is def. an improvement. Using a SNES as an example I noticed a decent difference. I does shit on 64 however. I noticed sharper edges, and clearer letters. And I have a shitty 15$ one.

>>4231076
And in that time manufacture of CRTs has completely stopped, parts et al.

>>4231172
>otherwise better quality screens wouldn't be selling point on smartphones.
They're a "selling point" because people believe they can tell the difference between a few hundred pixels.
Here's the thing about vision resolution: It only matters when you focus on it specifically. When you're playing a game, your mind isn't really focusing on resolution unless you have shit res to begin with and it's distracting. Or you're playing a boring game and have time to consider it.
With decent resolution, you lose care for said resolution.
That's with resolution in general. Color resolution requires even more nitpicking. Wide gamut is bullshit outside of ultra-HD legit photography.

Consumer electronics companies love useful idiots like yourself, who still buy vacuum tubes for their amps and require gold-plated connectors for digital connections. You're the golden geese.

>>4231185

S-video really is underrated. I switched my PS1 over to S-video from composite and it's very sharp, almost pixel perfect.

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>>4231213
My favorite thing about resolution is people honestly forgot that consoles used to shill themselves as being high resolution all the time. It was marked right onto model 1 megadrives. You're even seeing less than 30" monitors today with 8k.

>>4231219
Remember how they liberally used the terms "bits" and "megs" as well? CE companies entire marketing strategy has always been "technical sounding words that don't actually mean/do anything sell our products to idiots".

Ask an ophthalmologist about color resolution some time. Be a sport and say you can tell the difference between 50,000 shades of blue. People tend to take things they spend lots of money on very seriously because they don't want to be wrong and realize they were cheated using tech BS. Audiophiles are particular cunts about this. When you buy a $10,000 turntable you don't wanna be told "lol u sucker".

>>4231198
I believe there are some novelty CRTs recently in production in Korea. Realistically there will probably be a "bespoke" CRT market in the future just as turntables and vinyl records have made a comeback because of hipsters.

>>4231241
Nobody can see 50K shades of blue, but any idiot can tell a bad gradient from a smooth one. That's why color depth matters. It's about relative colors, not absolute.

>>4231243
they need them to play starcraft more quickly

>>4231198
>>4231243
CRTs can be rebuilt. This used to be a pretty big business to save on repair when TVs were expensive, but all the rebuilders folded over time. The tooling from one was preserved to save historical early CRTs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q5bEGikmNQ

Sure you can't have this done now, but imagine decades ahead there should always at least be some working tubes this way for posterity.

>>4231248
My posts are mainly aimed at asshats who think they can tell the difference between component RGB and "true" RGB.

No. No you cannot.
>but...
No.
>But I spent all that time and money hurrdurrr!
Yup, you did. Buy drugs next time instead if you wanna make colors look better.

>>4231264
CRT repair is becoming an artisan field, meaning the cost is going to go through the roof.
You can blame global warming faggots for this. Environmental regulations have made CRTs very costly to produce and maintain for big companies, so they just abandon the tech altogether. Same way they're abandoning CCT tech for LCDs and favoring LED(no mercury). Which in that example is a good thing, if the LEDs can be made to last 10+ years.

You can also blame envirofaggots for making motorsport lame, BTW. Thanks a lot you fucking hippies. Just what we wanted, speed, noise, and extreme performance replaced by fucking KERS systems.

>>4230496
Holy fuck I'm the last unicorn boys, praise me! In reality they aren't that hard to fix. Most of them just need a good tune up and will display perfectly for another 10 years before you have to open it up again, if you have to constantly fuck with your crt you're doing something wrong.

>>4230991
Absolutely not kidding that someone who pretends to know about YPbPr and math and makes a claim about mod 3 or signal resolution is retarded as fuck. I'm dead fucking serious, although it is fucking hilarious.

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>>4230110
>>>4230064 (OP)
>You people waste shit loads of money on these scalers just to play on a LCD/Flat TV/Plasma TV while there are CRT's scattered around everywhere and go for like 20$...

I just bought a Plasma that has a 240p mode, they're easy to find on Craigslist these days for around $100, just have to do your research. The Samsung 450 series in particular do an excellent job upscaling 240p.

>>4231290
Im curious, what games do you like to play?

>>4231290
It wasn't envirofaggotism that killed CRTs, it was the fact that LCDs (and plasma, at the time) provided extremely large screen sizes for comparatively little weight, as well as high resolutions.

They were simply better tech.

The switch from analog to digital television then sped up the transition greatly.

>>4230064
Dickheads willing to pay for them.
>>4230114
Get a transcoder you dick head.

>>4231436
>They were simply better tech.
For home users, not businesses and industry, the main users of monitor screens of any type.

>>4231403
Japanese ones. That's about as Pacific as I gets.

Considering getting an OSSC, but the only consoles that I have that would benefit from it are my SNES (multi-chip) and Dreamcast. I have an NES, but it's not RGB-modded and honestly I'd probably just get an AVS instead.

I'm not sure it's worth the 200 dollary-doos for just that.

>>4231290
I did buy drugs. I've paid probably less than $100 for all my retro hardware because I only pick up free stuff and good deals. I'm only talking about RGB vs YUV because Gramps used the phrase "mathematically identical" and even though no one can see the difference I know that's not technically true. It only matters in video production or in cases where you might otherwise want to convert back and forth between them a few times. If you are doing that before encoding raw video, it's important to know that converting to YUV and back isn't preserving your original bits perfectly.

>>4231386
That was just a conceptual example. It's easier to understand how the difference matters in digital signals, but the same principle applies to analog signals as well. YUV and RGB don't cover the same color space, and that's a well known fact. You may find that hilarious, but you're only making yourself look silly.

>>4231217
S-Video and a crt is all you need, everything above that is money pit meme.

>>4232136
>If you are doing that before encoding raw video, it's important to know that converting to YUV and back isn't preserving your original bits perfectly.
Point taken. You are indeed correct.

>>4232136
>i was wrong so ill claim it was just a conceptual example
kek

>>4232447
>Even if you conceive of it as Y, B-Y, R-Y, it's not "mathematically equivalent"
>Conceptually this is similar to a comparison of RGB and HSV
>one bit in this example although the principle applies to analog color mixing as well
You are out of your mind.

Just my two cents because I've never used nor know much about upscalers, but wouldn't it make sense for them to go out of production around now, and have Frameister release a new model that supports up to 4k resolutions since the quality of fake scanlines only go up with resolution?

>>4233097
that's basically what's happening.

>>4232648
>i was wrong so i'll say he's out of his mind
No amount of qualifying can make your false claim true.

>>4233505
Confirmed as illiterate

>TFW I have a modded ps3 that I use to play ps1 and ps2 games over HDMI/component.

>>4230531
Implied with "You get what you pay for."

>>4233985
hope it's one of the first few models of ps3 or you're basically using a glorified emulator for both.

>>4234071
I chased one of those, with a moddable firmware revision for so fucking long. I almost paid a real premium price for one but I just ended up buying a fliptop case for my fat ps2.

>>4230114
That's what RGB mods are for and there are plenty of adapters and such. And if you can use component you should, it's literally the exact same quality as RGB.

>>4230064
Will running video from my console into a framemeister and then into an elgato give me better picture quality than just running the original hardware straight into the elgato? Asking because i haven't seen any good video on this and not too many people talk about it

The only thing that matters is coaxial vs composite and never ever using coaxial. Spending money on anything "better" than composite is just autism. It's on par with people claiming they can see a difference between 60 frames per second and 60+ frames per second.

>>4234115
component is 4:2:2 and does use estimation. It's not "literally" the exact same as RGB. It's literally very different. Results can be similar, never identical. Please go back to wherever you came from.

>>4234694
It's the same man, quit being so fucking gay

>>4230064
Because they are aimed at sucker richfags who care more about showing off games on their giant HDTV than spending their money wisely.

>>4230114
>But if you're in the US you'll never get RGB.
ebay exists, nigga. And that's if you're too lazy to get up and go look for one.

>>4230496
>CRT's have a limited lifespan
If you left a PVM or other good CRT running 24/7 and came back in 20 years time it would look only a little bit worse. the one you buy to play your old vidya gaems will last your lifetime.

>>4234694
When you are talking about the resolutions used in /vr/ subjects the loss of quality will be not be measurable by your eyes no matter how close you get to the screen.

Connect RGB and Component to a monitor that supports both standards (you will need a switch box for most of them). Flick back and forth between them. There is literally zero difference. I know, I've done it.

>>4230334
>most people shouldn't be able to differentiate between S-video and component.
Top kek

>>4230159
>Who the fuck wants to play retro games on a 60 inch TV?
>Normies

>>4231154
It's kind of annoying though.
It doesn't just apply to video games even.
CGR's pinball reviews have raised the price on some tables.

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>>4230064
Damn... I forgot I paid so much for it.

>>4230110
Why buy a huge ass crt tv when I can buy a 10€ brand new IBM crt monitor from the 90s and enjoy comfy Dosbox emulation AND retro games?

>>4239580
this guy gets it

>>4232053
OSSC IS NOT A SCALER
OSSC IS NOT A SCALER
OSSC IS NOT A SCALER

>>4241909
Try not to fill your diaper there matey.

>>4231402
Interesting. How do you identify a feature like that? What's the specific model number of that tv? It looks like Samsung has released many TVs over the years with 450 in their model number.