Did AVGN meme this game into being terrible?

Other people's opinions shouldn't affect your own enjoyment.

>>4216256
Even AVGN says that Zelda 2 is a good game in his review. I blame the OoT generation for giving Zelda 2 shit that it doesn't deserve.

>>4216256
Ask yourself what Zelda II brought to the franchise

Dude check out Sword Master and Trojan if you liked the sword combat in Zelda 2.

>>4216280
>not battle of olympus

>>4216256
No. He said it was good. Try watching the video.

>>4216256
Am I the only one that doesn't really like ALttP or the first game? I really like 2 and the one on Gameboy.

>>4216319
yeah, thats probably only you

>>4216256
MUH ECELEB BOGEYMAAAAAANNNNNN ;.;

>>4216263
Ironically, Zelda 2 is one of the biggest influences of Ocarina of Time. As good as every sage in the latter is named after a town in Zelda, the bigger emphasis in sword and shield battling, Dark Link, being able to use magic and having to do tasks for people before you get an item are all things the second Zelda established.
Yes it also took a lot from Zelda 1, Link to the Past and Link's Awakening but the second Zelda was definitely a big source of inspiration.

Not sure if it's the 90s generation that's to blame for disliking Zelda 2. It's just that Nintendo started to make games that were either
a) top down like LttP and LA or
b) 3D like OoT and Majora's Mask.

>>4216332
Want to know another thing OoT pulls from Zelda 2?

Enemies don't spawn when you walk on the road

>>4216256
I like Zelda 2. I don't like any of the other Zeldas though.

>>4216263
>Even AVGN says that Zelda 2 is a good game in his review
This. It's one of his rare episodes about games that he actually likes.

>>4216338
Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot about it. It's even worse that I'm playing both games again for a few weeks and I could have noticed it immediately if I paid a little more attention.

I remember seeing the "Zelda 2 is the worst Zelda game" consensus around the time LA was new. Didn't stem from much other than the fact that it played very differently, I guess. It was absolutely considered a great game back in its time.

>>4216617
in a time when only Z1, Z2, LTTP and LA exists saying that Z2 is the worst zelda game doesnt really say much

>>4216256
Naw got hooked on it and the very basic RPG aspect of it -- loved grinding to overpower my sword early in the game and then feel more confident about exploring -- great NES game in its own right

I guarantee that if Zelda 2 was named something completely different with all references to LoZ removed or replaced, it would of been much more well received and be a must play classic.

>>4217129
Battle of Olympus is pretty much that, and isn't really treated as a must play classic.

>>4216256

Zelda 2 was disliked way before the AVGN video, child.

>>4216278
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a7Sh82Mzdc

>>4216278
The Triforce of Courage.

>>4217129
Maybe not a "must play," but it would be thought of as good. Just like Sonic R, really. It would be considered a good game if it didn't contain any references to Sonic.

>>4216319
Honestly, I'm with you. I don't know what it is about ALttP, but I never enjoyed it as much as Zelda II or OoT/MM.

Ocarina Of Time seriously ruined the fucking franchise. It's a good game, but the children it brought to the Zelda franchise who won't even touch the 2D games are the fucking worst.

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>>4217129
>would of

>>4217207
Battle of Olympus sucks, 95% of enemies do that thing from Castlevania where they Bob up and down and it's a pain to deal with

>>4216256
No it's actually pretty terrible.

Zelda 2 is not a bad game. It's just the weakest in the series. Wasn't as good as Zelda 1.

>>4216319
The pace in lttp is too slow. Link's Awakening is the best 2d zelda if only because Link's sword swing is fucking perfect but for the love of god the text bubbles every you pick up an acorn is unbearable.

>>4217884
>weakest in the series
Not even fucking close. I can name 5 Zelda games worse than Zelda II.

>>4217884
Fairly sure it was considered better when it was new.

>>4217951

I believe he was talking about back before the 3DO existed, when there were only like 5 Zelda games.

Or maybe that was a different guy.

>>4217207
Agreed
>>4217847
Wrong. Battle of Olympus is better than Zelda 2

It was originally a Japanese game called Doki Doki Picnic. The real Zelda 2 was considered too hard for American audiences after Nintendo saved the video game market from the crash of 1983.

>>4218219
As a matter of fact they DID make radical changes to the leveling system in FDS Zelda 2 for American audiences.

>>4218219
>after Nintendo saved the video game market from the crash of 1983.

What the hell does that have to do with Zelda 2?

And they didn't save the video game market from the crash, they revived it well after it crashed.

I feel like this is a weird attempt at a troll, but I'm not so much mad than slightly puzzled? If that's what you're going for, good job, I guess.

>>4218237
>they revived it well after it crashed.
Only a very small, localised part of the global market crashed.

>>4218223
Didn't make it any harder or easier, though, just different.

>>4218243

Yeah, things were still selling great in Brasil, but nobody cares.

>>4218268
Nobody cares about America's little console market either, kiddo.

>>4218249
Well, sorta. In Japan, you could level up anything at any level. US has preset levels (of any given three level ups, Sword will always be the most expensive). This came with a caveat: if you got a game over, ALL your current levels averaged out to whatever your lowest level was.

So in a way, it was higher risk, higher reward if you didn't level everything equally.

>>4218243
It's obviously a trolling attempt but yes while the consumer market picked up, the American video game developer world crashed and didn't recover until several years later. Debatably until the sixth generation.

>>4218237
You are too innocent for 4chan.

>>4218321
>nobody cares about the US market
In 1983 it was by far the biggest consumer market in the world. The USSR was already bleeding out and China still a sleepy backwater. Half of Europe (including East Germany) was behind the iron curtain as well. Canada's population was still under 25 million people (and her economy is fused at the hip with US's anyways).

Only Japan came close.

>>4218341
But nobody outside of it cared about it, you fucking goose.

>>4218413

Yes, because they were living in mud huts, or freezing in their igloos if they were Canadians.

>>4216278

>>4217525
Visiting towns and interacting with people in them.
Magic meter and magic spells to use it for.
RPG elements.

>>4216278

>>4217525
>>4218436
Iron Knuckles
Dark Link
Volvagia
The names of the OoT sages
There being more than one Princess Zelda
An increased focus on swordplay and 1 on 1 fights
Final bosses that aren't Ganon

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>>4218438

Why yes, intelligent foreigner, I am completely serious and you are right to take my words as if I believed them completely. Nobody could pull the wool over your eyes. Boy, you folks sure are sophisticated and shit over in foreign parts!

>>4218469
>i-i what just pretending to be retarded
Hhmmm.

>>4216319
my man zelda 2 is the shit
has way more personality than the first game and the visuals are almost camp (inside houses and other buildings) but I think that's made it all the more endearing to me

plus the swordplay is mad fun and has depth

>>4218438
What kind of backwater shit hole must you be from to honestly believe any of that?

>>4218438
Your inferiority complex is showing.

Zelda II is actually p dope though

>>4218735
>dope
Does that mean it's good or bad? "Though" does not belong at the end of a sentence.

>>4218745
dope means cool

>>4218756
You're a dope, my friend. Thanks.

>>4218563

>I can't spot a blatantly obvious joke
>you must be trolling me you big meanie

Man, you are too dumb for 4chan.

>>4218249
if u can get attack level 6 or whatever in palace 1, i'd say the difficulty is way changed

Euro turbo-spergs can't go a day without starting their /int/ slapfights wherever they go, huh?

>>4218815
ur lucky to get attack level 4 by end of palace 1 in the usa version

>>4216256
People were shitting on Zelda II long before that review.
The shit train that he did start was on Simon's Quest.

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>tfw AVGN only rates like he does cuz he knows it will make ppl talk about him for years

>>4218834
most games he talks about are pretty good, but saying they suck is more entertaining

>>4218826

He had a point about that "What a terrible night to have a curse" shit. That was a terrible design decision, and an annoying "feature" that adds nothing but tedium and frustration. And "secrets" like the whirlwind thing are one of the worst parts of /vr/ games, they were like an ad for Nintendo Power. "Buy our magazine or you'll never figure this shit out!"
I'd say Castlevania II is a decent game overall, but it used to be overrated. Now it's maybe underrated thanks to memes spawned by AVGN, but I don't think I'd say it's his fault, you've got to take his stuff with a grain of salt. It's mostly honest, especially when compared to some of his hamfisted imitators, but it skews a little negative just for humor value.

>>4218843
It was a poor translation, not an advert for the magazine. Konami published the game, in case you didn't realise, not Nintendo.

>>4218837
its supposed to be comedy but autists take his "reviews" way too seriously

>>4218858

You misunderstand. I'm saying the fad for ridiculous secrets in the 80s was a nuisance, and I dislike that a lot of games required outside assistance to solve, not that Konami was literally trying to sell Nintendo Power.

>>4218898
They were not.

>>4216256
I's shit just like Oot it's always been shit and is a meme game.

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Castlevania II is not so much a terrible game in it's own right as it's terrible when you compare it to I and III.
I'd say it's rather mediocre. It has some good parts and some bad parts.
The four castles being the exact same with the same enemies pissed me off the most.

>>4218745

>doesn't know decades old lingo
Christ, how fucking young are you? Or do you just have the tism?

>>4218803
I think your a cool too

>>4219023
>obscure

Maybe if you lived under a rock through the 80s, 90s, and 00s.

>>4218952
2 needs to have the levels from 1 hacked into the mansions and final level
Some of the levels from 3 hacked into the overworld map
Score
Death count (like LTTP)
Time count
Item collect percentage

A little polish to the text and NPCs for atmosphere and the game is a grade A+

>>4219038
Every bong I've ever met thinks the entire country is the bible belt and obsessed with us for some reason.

>>4219050
Nice anecdotal evidence.

>>4218745
Oh. 2nd language so my grammar gets completely fucked at times but as anon mentioned soon after my comment: dope = cool/good

Maybe you shouldn't guess about things you don't know much about if you're underage, OP.

>>4218843
>And "secrets" like the whirlwind thing are one of the worst parts of /vr/ games, they were like an ad for Nintendo Power. "Buy our magazine or you'll never figure this shit out!"
That shit seriously isn't hard to solve. You're told to "go to Deborah's Cliff with a red crystal", and the last time you had to go somewhere with a crystal you had to duck for a bit to activate its effect. I figured that shit out immediately as a kid and never even considered this being a place people legitimately could get stuck.

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>>4219353

>>4219353
>You're told to "go to Deborah's Cliff with a red crystal",
The problem is that half the things you're told by the villagers are downright lies, but I see where you're coming from.

>>4219360
Anon.
"I went there with a red crystal like I was told, but nothing happened - maybe I should try doing the same thing I did the last time I had to go somewhere with a specific crystal?" isn't some colossal leap of logic.

>>4219364
It's not a villager that tells you this, it's a clue book. Villagers tend to lie, but the books always give genuine hints.

>>4219360
>smug troll: the jpg

>>4219370
>Villagers tend to lie, but the books always give genuine hints.
Oh didn't know that, fair enough I'm talking out my ass.

>>4219371

Just because he didn't get stuck doesn't mean nobody did.

>>4219386
Likewise, just because you were dumb enough to get stuck doesn't mean the puzzle was hard to figure out.
If it's literally "go here with this item" and they leave out the fact that you then need to do the same thing you did the last time you faced a similar situation, that's a pretty barebones puzzle.

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>>4219401

Fair enough,

>>4216256
Why e-celebs can't into metroidvania action RPGs? I'm still mad after Egoraptor shat all over Simon's Quest though his video boils down to "I have adhd and dislike exploration".

No? Early on in the video, AVGN is confused as to why people think it's a bad game.

People disliked it before his video.

>>4220658
Repetitive grinding does not make a game fun, anon

>>4220658
To be fair old adventure games tend to be cryptic and unforgiving as fuck. Like Sierra games that downright killed you for searching the wrong tile.

>>4220658
>his video boils down to "I have adhd and dislike exploration".
most of these youtube critics like him, avgn and spoony are really terrible at video games

>born in 86
>only NES game I had was Zelda II because poor
>Loved the shit out of it
>grow up
>find out later in life that nobody liked that game compared to other Zeldas
>play other Zelda games
>they're good but not as good as Zelda II to me

Yeah Zelda II doesn't deserve all the hate it gets. Every now and then I find myself playing a randomized zelda II rom when I want to relax, cozy game.

>>4220871
>playing Zelda 2 to relax
Hardcore. That's like wrestling with a menstruated grizzly bear when you want chill out.

>>4220658
...what? Most of his points make complete sense.

-Forcing you to grind hearts to buy items isn't fun or interesting, it's just artificially increasing the game's life
-Lots of shit is so cryptic you would never figure it out unless you had a guide
-The townsfolk text is super cryptic and nonsensical as well
-Enemies are bland and boring, just walking back and forth and not really doing much

etc.

>>4220876

I never thought it was a hard game even when I was little. Just gotta know how the AI of each enemy words and just know good situations to put them in and its free.

The only enemies that are really bad are those flying eyeball guys that can also be invisible by the end of the game, those guys are unpredictable from what I can tell.

>>4216306
Play this if you want an easier and less interesting version of zelda 2

>>4220895
Agreed. I didn't like it as a kid either. I appreciated what it was trying to do, but it didn't do it very well, and Zelda 2 was right there proving that it was possible to do this type of gameplay so so much better.

>>4217951
If staying specifically retro and only going by Nintendo made games (none of that 3do garbage), Zelda II absolutely the weakest. There's some things that feel important to the series that it introduced but the overall feel is so left field and it is a very sore thumb of a game.

Still fun though.

>>4220895

>-Forcing you to grind hearts to buy items isn't fun or interesting, it's just artificially increasing the game's life

grinding for currency to buy things!? The nerve of konami!

He didn't though. People were hating on Zelda II loooooooong before James Rolfe even thought of the AVGN character. Try like 1999 when newbies tried out OOT, liked it, went back and saw all of the previous entries in the series, and saw that one of them stuck out more than the others, and hated it for that reason and due to them sucking at the game.

Also, AVGN liked the game and defended it a lot in his own video about it. So I don't know what you are trying to say in the topic title. Did you even watch the video?

>>4224515
I think the problem other anons are trying to point out is that you weren't guaranteed currency, unlike a lot of(all?) other RPGs. It's one thing to have to do 50 fights to get approximately the money you need to buy the next set of weapons/armor...it's quite another to pray that you only have to fight 50 guys to get the next set of weapons/armor, but you more likely will have to fight triple that number.

>>4224791

Kinda true, theres a decent mix in games that need money that always have enemies that give you some, and some that don't.

Zelda one you arent guaranteed every kill is a money drop, battle of olympus, Alex kidd, wonder boy.. theres quite a large list of games where every kill isnt a money drop.

The rest of the points he made are good, this one is not.

Zelda 2 was kinda the Zelda title of my day. When I became aware of Nintendo, I got some of the Nintendo power issues of the time and they were full of Zelda 2 stuff. I spent hours imagining what the game must be like.
I even played a facsimile of it in the back yard. The trampoline was the jump spell and there was a knight living on the roof of the shed.

I did something similar with Mario 2 when I nailed lots of bits of wood together and pretended they were mushroom blocks which I then stacked on top of each other.

That was what some of my days were like.

I played this game in PAL on my original console (Aussie) and thought it was easy af
then I played ntsc about a year later and it was not easy af

the more you know

>>4224515
Yes, anon. Repetitive grinding is not fun. I play a videogame to escape the harsh reality of having to sit in an office for 8 hours doing boring shit to earn currency.

It's especially bad when you use grinding as a cheap way to extend the game's play time.

Like, imagine if in Megaman, instead of just killing the enemies to progress to the next part of the level, you had to sit around and kill the same 2-3 enemies over and over again for an hour before it let you progress onward. And you had to do that every single level.

That's the difference between Castlevania 1 and Castlevania 2.

>>4224547
AVGN literally says in the video that he keeps getting requests to do a Zelda 2 video and doesn't get why, since it's a good game.

At this point he was well enough aware that if he shits on a game, kids will take it seriously, so he didn't want to do that to a game he clearly likes a lot.

>>4225543
>Like, imagine if in Megaman, instead of just killing the enemies to progress to the next part of the level, you had to sit around and kill the same 2-3 enemies over and over again for an hour before it let you progress onward. And you had to do that every single level.
This is literally what you need to do in Mega Man Zero 1 to unlock Hard Mode. It's amazingly bad design and was ridiculously tedious to do.

>>4225543
Zelda 2 has a pretty steep experience curve once you get past the first dungeons. Grinding isn't going to help you much past the 3rd dungeon. And you will probably hit max level 3/4th through the game anyway.

>>4224024
>3DO
>Zelda

It's the CDI dumbass. If you want to talk about something in an argument, at least know what you're talking about

>>4218321
>Nobody cares about America's little console market either
>Despite the fact many Japanese video game developers made or modified game for the U.S.

>>4220895
Here's the thing you kinda need to understand - you're bothered by these things now, but people back then wouldn't be so bothered by them.

You need to understand that in this game, developers were trying to combine an adventure game, RPG and a platformer.

Grinding was the norm in console RPGs back then, consider how Dragon Quest 1 consisted entirely of grinding.
And townsfolk are cryptic and puzzles are obscure - because that's how adventure games at the time (e.g. interactive fiction) worked. Just ask any IF nerd about Babelfish puzzle in Hitchhiker's Guide to Galaxy.

If anything, that's not a case of game being bad, it's a case of game aging badly. Grinding is now looked down upon, many modern adventure games like walking sims have no puzzles at all - so all of these feel weird.

Secondary, he does say quite a bit stupid shit. Enemies are easy to kill because it's a metroidvania, so you're gonna do a lot of backtracking. He says linear design is inherently better than nonlinear, which is bullshit. He basically complains game has exploration, and RPG elements.

The game is kind of obscure, but it reached meme status thanks to him - it's definitely doable if you're used to solving puzzles in adventure games, and think outside the box.

Hell, at the end he compares all RPGs to 'junk food' and classicvanias to a 'gourmet desert' which I'm sure would please that asshole who keeps making hate threads about SotN.

La-Mulana has a lot of the same features - cryptic puzzles, forced grinding, tons of exploration - but it's almost universally acclaimed. In fact, I'd say that La-Mulana is MUCH harder than Simon's Quest, mostly because platforming and combat stuff is pretty hard.
So obviously, those aren't inherently bad things, they are just implemented in a way that hasn't aged well.

>>4225817
I played the game when it was new, as a kid, and I highly disliked how piss easy and dull all the enemies were and how awful the world layout, particularly the mansions, were. Neither Castlevania 1, Zelda 2 or Metroid had these issues. These are not new issues. They were noticeable at the time and not present in the game's direct competitors.

>>4225827
I'm not saying it's perfect by any means. I'd say a lot of hate it gets is undeserved. It was an okay game back then, a lot of level design is weird, world design is weird because it's WAY too horizontal - I'm not saying the game doesn't have issues, personally I'd play La-Mulana (honestly, I think La-Mulana is basically "Simon's Quest, fixed) or SotN any time of day over Simon's Quest.

He complains about such inconsequential bullshit, like the "horrible night to have a curse' prompts, even though it was the first game with a real time day-night cycle I think; or the color palette and calls color choices of CV1 more 'bold' even though CV1 it's just orange and blue, and EVERY game on Nintendo was just orange and blue (with a bit of green), and Simon's Quest was standing against the mold with mostly white/black/grey graphics - and then he has the audacity to admit game has good atmosphere! Gee, I wonder if the 'boring' color palette helped with that?; It's really a load of bullshit.


I'm saying the issues of the game are almost exactly not what Egoraptor says. That's the part that pisses me off. The only complaint he makes that really makes sense in context are weak and dull enemies, which I will agree with.

>>4225847
He HAS said many times that the video was just him nitpicking shit and blowing it out of proportion, and that he thinks it's ridiculous that people take the video so fucking seriously. It's one of the first things he'll point to when pointing out that the Nerd is just a character.

>>4216319

The first two Zeldas are pure gameplay and you can run through them really nicely with a great sence of challenge, even though they have really rough starts. Imo they are the best 2D Zeldas.

Alttp and later 2D games didn't really add much besides more wordswordswordswords-

>>4216256
It's probably my favorite Zelda game ever

>>4225876
LttP is honestly closer to the style of Zelda 1 and 2 than it is to the later games. It was Link's Awakening that started the story-heavy "you can't progress until you've triggered this particular event flag" type gameplay that LttP used very very minimally.

>>4225748
Read the post, anon. I'm not talking about Zelda 2.

>>4225817
>"grinding was the norm"
>points out 1 game

k

just because "that's how it was back then" doesn't mean it's good game design

plenty of games forced you to play through the entire game again if you died 2-3 times, are you going to claim that's okay as well?

>>4225847
>He complains about such inconsequential bullshit, like the "horrible night to have a curse' prompts

Those weren't inconsequential. They were fucking obnoxious. Having to sit there and wait for a 10-second transition every few minutes was annoying as fuck. Yes, yes, it was "revolutionary at the time", but it got old real fuckin fast

>>4216256
I fucking hated that game long before that man had a YT channel.

>>4225986
>plenty of games forced you to play through the entire game again if you died 2-3 times, are you going to claim that's okay as well?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Test

How fucking sad do you have to be to spend all day listening to some faggot with a camera talk about how great his opinions are? It's like you don't even have your own sense of agency or independant thought

>>4225543
Then play a different fucking game

>>4226052

>I find it sad that people enjoy entertainment

Thanks, AngryAnon.

>>4226070
There's a difference between enjoying something for entertainment value and taking said entertainment and replacing its message or option with one that you should develop on your own. What actually does make me angry is people who never play a game through and just watch a video and act like they have formed that opinion through experience and thought. It's like the kid who thinks they know everything about a book but all they read were the cliff notes

>>4226060
>hurhur stop criticizing things, just go do something else!

this is why you're not a game dev

>>4226052
AVGN peaked over 7 years ago, so he's not that relevant anymore.

>>4216256
Not really at least not for me, I don't watch much youtube, never watched a game review, or playthrough. It's just a matter of separating oneself from that stuff. It's the whole echo chamber concept, so your best bet is to just not watch youtubers.

It's unironically my favorite Zelda game... warts and all.