Starcraft Firebats

firebat rush is extremely unpleasant when you are on the receiving end

>>4178792
I only used them in bunkers so if anything got past the marines they git fried but I also sucked at multiple-player so what do I know :^)

Firebats are the only Terran unit not hurt by dark swarms

>>4178792
they seem made to just counter zerglings, and even then, you only need to add 2 or so to a troop of M&M to take full advantage.

they deal concussive damage, which means they deal 100% to small units, 50% damage to medium units, and 25% damage to large units. (keep in mind hydras are medium units)

they aren't terribly mobile.

they can't attack air.

I can think of very few situations where I would be willing to spend the gas and lose the range. I would need to be up against melee only units, or a zerg player that isn't trying to make either Hydras or Mutas. Other than that, I would much rather have the marines. I'll run a line of blocking SCV's if I have to, at least afterwards I'll still have ranged units.

>>4178853
damn that makes them pretty useless
i dont think theres much reason to buy anything that doesn't come out of the factory
vultures only cost 75 minerals and come with 3 mines

You see Firebats semi-regularly in TvZ matchups sprinkled in with M+M especially when the Z has cracklings and is using lots of dark swarm. They provide a splashy front line for lings to hit so the marines can get to work just a little bit faster.

Super rarely you'll see them to counter zealot rushes, but this is mad rare.

One of the lesser-used units for sure, along with Scouts and Devourers.

>>4178923

Marines and Medics are quite strong, but it depends on what composition your opponent is using. They have their place in early pressure versus zerg. Vultures are good for that too but they get stopped too easily by a sunken colony in a choke with some lings to body block. Eventually you end up transitioning to mech in all matchups anyway, if you don't start there immediately.

One thing that's particularly heartbreaking to watch as a zerg is when 50 firebats walks into your base and take every structure down faster than you can say i-hate-fucking-firebats.

>>4179141
I've seen Scouts used rarely, but only to go after Battlecruisers or Carriers. I've never seen Devourers used in a pro game though.

Firebats have 1 armor and slightly higher health. They also have nominally a higher damage output, so Sunken Colony AI prioritizes them. So they will only die to three hits from a Sunken and not two without Medic supervision. As such, there's no reason not to mix them into an attempted breakthrough of a Zerg's early expansion.

They are also good to sprinkle into a drop into an enemy mineral line, since they massacre workers.

They deal rather well with Zealots, but early game Terran vs Protoss is about the Terran making small skirmish forces with just a few token Marines, Vultures, and 1-2 Tanks at most (perhaps a Bunker in enemy line if he's going super aggressive), and the Protoss responds with Dragoons. +Range Dragoons eat M&M, not to mention when Protoss goes Templar or Reaver tech.

I like firebats, but rarely used them vs actual players.
Not retro, but the firebats in the SC2 campaign are fucking godly, holy shit.

>>4179208
What the fuck have you been doing when the enemy's been making 50 Firebats? Just murder them with Mutalisks. Or Lurkers.

>>4179268

And usually protoss just doesn't bother with zealots because it's wasted resources that they should be spending on stuff like dragoons to pressure bunkers before the first tank comes out.

>>4178796
most multiplayer games just quickly shot and stick to factory units

>>4178853
I think they can do good against zealots as well

>>4179328
Hell Hydras with range upgrade can probably take them down without a single hit

>>4179141
>>4179256
I've never understood why scouts were so ridiculously expensive.

>>4180980
Because the game doesn't emphasize fleets as much as Blizzard thought it would (the "ultimate" units for each race are capital ships or, for Zerg, a Guardian/Muta/Devourer swarm) and thus Scouts, while being the ultimate anti-air fighter, don't have a place.

They're so expensive because of their niche, but nobody even makes Carriers in PvP or Battlecruisers in PvT because the moment you do you will just meet 200 Dragoons on ground floor and the lull from reaching the tech will cause the enemy to take 3 bases.

>>4180980
>>4180997
Oh, and PvZ is even worse.
>Nice Guardians you have here
>Maelstorm
>Psionic Storm
Done. No Scouts needed, even though they're probably quite evenly matched versus Devourers and stuff.

>>4179328
Mucho money maps

>>4181007
On mucho money maps Firebats are even less viable. You aren't using them to break through that one guy who made 80 cannons and is teching through Carriers nor are they going to do anything against the dude with 40 gateways constantly pumping White-Ra's Special Tactics Brand of Whoop-Ass.

>>4181004
>Guardians when vsP
WHY?! Corsairs will gang-rape them unless you have a Muta fleet or gang of Hydras babysitting them, and if you already have a Muta fleet or gang of Hydras you don't need the Guardians to begin with. For what purpose?

>>4181160
Read the post chain. I was providing reasons for why Scouts are so expensive (the best air-to-air unit in a game where air-to-air plays a secondary role at best).

To be fair, the only matchups I've ever seen Guardians in are vs T (and that's a "win-more", basically eviscerating a T that didn't switch from a M&M/tank/vessel core into Goliaths and wasn't in a dominant position anyway, plus you're still liable to lose army to Irradiate) and in that one vs Z match that was quite famous a few years ago, where both Zerg somehow managed to get Hive tech and ended up unleashing everything. Ultras, Guardians, Devourers, Queens.

>>4180997
Seriously they're like a few resources away from buying a carrier why not just buy a carrier?

>>4181464
Add 200 to the cost of the carrier to outfit it
And u gotta wait for them to build

>>4181172
Can you post a link to that match please?

>>4181546
Here is one by foreign players:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ORO6TOvQ7s
Here is one by Koreans (shit video quality and Korean commentary):
https://youtu.be/xVzHHiYElxc

>>4178792
Whats even worse are valkyries
>cant attack ground
>fucking expensive

>>4181575
A Valkyrie opening is used in Terran vs Zerg to force the Zerg to get early anti-air (otherwise your Overlords get wiped out), also the Valkyrie comes out early enough to wipe out at least one of your Overlords. It's called the Fantasy build - you transition into mech later. Those Valks you build also make Mutalisk-based play very difficult, Valks destroy Muta.

Valks got better in the new SC patches (that are coming with Remastered) because the bug with a finite amount of rockets being possible to display on screen has been fixed.

>>4181571
Nice, thank you

>>4181590
>playing Protoss
>see two science vessels and a swarm of Valks headed for my Corsairs
This is why I don't try to play an air game against Terran. Wraiths aren't much of a problem if you have a single observer around, but the science vessel-valk combo is a pain to deal with.

>>4181575
>>4181590
Basically they're made specifically to rape Zerg airforce units.

all other anti-airs can only hit one target (corsairs splashes but still attacks one target) which makes it difficult when you're attacking a swarm of them.

>>4181571
lol what a match. It was like a showcase of all the different units which rarely get used in Korean matches. I could relate to both the players since the players' flaws were quite easy to spot even for a casual like me but that's what made them relatable.

Thanks for the share.

>>4178792
You must play against some bad players.

They're not super common, but they certainly have their place and you should see them occasionally. It's pretty handy and typical to have a few thrown in to your drops for example.A lot of people would rather save the gas for other tech/units, which is why they aren't more common, and you can usually get around building them by walling and/or microing your marines

>>4178792
I loved star craft