Why did Sega of Japan and Sega of America hate each other so much?

Conflicting ideas.

If is wasn't for sega of America we would have gotten dreamcast 2

>>4162383

different philosophies on game development/the direction of the company that often clashed

>>4162383
Americans always fuck Japan over.

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>>4162383
petty japs jelly that genesis was a huge success in usa, but MD tanked in Japan which started a corporate civil war of sorts which killed the brand

>>4162437
>genesis was a huge success in usa, but MD tanked in Japan which started a corporate civil war of sorts which killed the brand

Well I guess that's why roll out of the Saturn was as disastrous as it was. I had always wondered why the Saturn was so badly handled.

Simple version:

>SoJ:Ok, America is a huge market, but a lot of our stuff doesn't fly too well over there.
>SoJ Staffer:You mean the loli tentacle rape porn?
>SoJ:No, that shit sells great. I mean american boys don't seem to like cute stuff. They think it's "gay". If it doesn't have guns and explosions, they don't like it.
>SoJ Staffer:Why did Mario succeed?
>SoJ:Shoots fire, fights fire-breathing dragon. We have a cartoon character that rescues cute animals. We need a way to appeal to the american market.
>SoJ Staffer:How do we do that?
>SoJ:We create a division of the company in america, and give them pretty much complete control on marketing and distribution, since they will know the market best!
SoA is born.
>SoA Staffer:Ok, so how are we gonna compete with Nintendo? SoJ gave us pretty much anything we could possibly ask for.
>SoA:WE ARE THE EXTREME COMPANY! FUCK YEAH! BLAST PROCESSING! WATCH THAT BLUE FUCKER MOVE FAST! PASS THE COCAINE!
SoA dumps the Genesis/Mega Drive on the market, makes good money off of SoJ's game library.
>Bernie Stolar:I am a videogame god!
SoJ creates 32X and CD to out-power the SNES. SoA tries to push them, believing them to be the next generation. SoJ creates the Saturn.
>Bernie:FUCK the Saturn. Fuck our retailers!
>SoJ:Wat are u doing? Distribute games!
>Bernie:We don't wanna! We don't even LIKE your games!
>SoJ:The fuck SoA?
>Bernie:SHUT UP WE KNOW BETTER THAN YOU!
SoA finds out SoJ is working on DC.
>Bernie:Saturn isn't worth anyone's time! Wait for DC!
>Game Devs:Fuck this shit, we're out.
>SoJ:At least push the fucking DC this time.
>SoA:OK!
>Gamers:I'm not risking it.
DC loses so much money, it kills SEGA.

Fin.

>>4162484
This was very informative, thanks.

>>4162484
This is the least intelligent thing I've ever read, fuck you.

>>4162510
Must be your first day on 4chan then.

>>4162510
Baitposter pls

>>4162403
Other way around actually.

>>4162484
Last two digits reveal how many IQ points I just lost reading this post.

>>4162484
This is so incorrect it's not even funny. SEGA was doomed no matter what because of Saturn. If SoJ has their way SEGA would've tanked out of hardware even faster. Bernie was actually really good for the company, USA wise anyway.

The Saturn was liked over in Japan but hated in the USA, so they made another system (DC) which pissed off the Japanese fans. The USA fans liked the DC but the PS2 hype was so real there was nothing SEGA could've done ultimately.

Watch the Tech TV Icons episode about Dreamcast. It gives a pretty good insight into the whole fiasco.

>>4162437
it sold 3 million, not that bad and better than xbox and the other lesser known consoles so it had a few fans

>>4162484
>SoJ Staffer:You mean the loli tentacle rape porn?
>SoJ:No, that shit sells great.
Stopped reading here
Americans are fags

SoJ got irritated that Sonic was mainly handled in the US and that was Sega's meal ticket. Nips are very proud and xenophobic so they'd rather watch their brand die than allow SoA to show them up.

>>4162609
>SEGA was doomed no matter what because of Saturn
I get this, but why was the Saturn release handled so badly/why was Sega doomed because of the Saturn. This is what I don't understand.

>>4162691
The reason is Sega burned a lot of people with the Saturn. It was supposed to launch in September but they announced it was coming out in May at E3.

So retailers you're expecting it to come out in September got it several months early and were not ready for it. Meanwhile developers were not prepared to release games at that time so the System didn't have many games at launch. And because of what Sega did some retailers didn't carry it at all like KB toys. This was to try and get the leg up on Sony, Who answered back by dropping the price of the PlayStation by $100.

>>4162785
Okay this makes sense.

>>4162383
Because Sega of America wanted to make money and Sega of Japan wanted to build miniature trains inside their office building that employees could ride around in.

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Good.
Keep believing my story, kids.

>All testimonies we have are from SOA
>They're basically 'SOJ BAD WE DINDU NUFFIN'
Yup seems legit.

>>4162437
Yeah usa really fucked up with the svp chip, sega cd, x32 and the saturn tho.

Wasn't the genny success pretty much all down to great marketing? And didnt tye marketing guy get fired or some shit?

>>4162383
Because Genesis does what Nintendon't motherfucker

>>4162593
If it wasn't for the Dreamcast 2, we would have gotten Sega of America?

>>4162609
SoJ was anything but doomed by the saturn, it outsold the n64 in japan, it was segas most popular console there.

>>4163035
Yeah id like to read about SoJ, SoA isn't trustworthy at all

>>4162609
from what I heard it was nothing about like, saturn was hard to program games for because of the chipset, then playstation came out, which has a hardware dev kit, game over. dreamcast then flopped because while it was great the ps2 came out and shat over everything.

>>4162383
One of them literally invented Sonic, I'd hate my partner too if he committed such a crime against humanity.

Sega of America making lots of dumb decisions like releasing Saturn months early just to shit on Sony, and making the Saturn flop in America because of that

>>4162785
This isn't quite what happened with retailers. There were certain chains that were a part of the May launch, and they had been made aware of it, but it was places like Walmart and KB that were huge and not made a part of Saturnday that got pissed and refused to sell Saturns at all.

>>4162484
sperg version

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>>4163172
>then playstation came out, which has a hardware dev kit

The Saturn had hardware devkits too. Pic related.

>dreamcast then flopped because while it was great the ps2 came out

It was more because Shenmue cost US 70 million to develop, was the most expensive game in history at the time, failed miserably to recoup development costs & almost bankrupted SEGA completely and was one of the main reasons they left the console industry.

>>4163035
This.
Would like to hear SoJ's testimonial as well.

>>4162484
>SoJ creates 32X and CD to out-power the SNES
Neither had anything to do with the SNES.

CD was designed as a response to the PC Engine CD. 32X was designed as a response to the crop of 32 bit consoles coming up like 3DO and Jaguar.

SoJ considered Nintendo to be unassailable in Japan and never tried to take them directly head on.

Kalinske was too Western-smart

>>4165870
All good he did was convince Sega to bundle Sonic with the Genesis.
That's it.
"Nintendon't" marketing campaign wasn't even Kalinske, it was the guy before him.

In fact, Kalinske is one of the reasons we're having this silly "SoA vs SoJ" thing going on, due to Kalinske wanting to wash his hand and blame it all on SoJ.

The real reason why Sega couldn't stay on the market was the PlayStation, not SoA or SoJ.
I mean, SoA was just a branch, the Sega HQs are in Japan. The whole notion of thinking SoA were "the good guys" is laughable.
Call me back when SoA makes a popular arcade game.

>>4165929
>Call me back when SoA makes a popular arcade game.

STI, a branch of SoA, helped create Die Hard Arcade.

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>>4163103
beat me to it

>>4165943
>helped

>>4166531
Yup.

>>4163161
>>4165305
You'll never hear SoJs side of the story anons. Japanese companies have too much pride to spill the beans on shit like this.

>>4162383
penis envy.

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>>4162403
>If is wasn't for sega of America we would have gotten dreamcast 2

We already got the Dreamcast 2.

>>4162484
>PASS THE COCAINE!

That's pretty much how it happened too.

However, everything you said after that is horse shit.

Bernie said "fuck the Saturn" because SOJ told him to fuck the Saturn, his job was to grab every behind-the-scene support for the Dreamcast. Which he did, and it's why it had a strong as fuck run.

>>4166765
>SOJ told him to fuck the Saturn
Source?

>>4162691
>I get this, but why was the Saturn release handled so badly

In Japan, the Megadrive was selling extremely poorly. It always has; it was a footnote compared to the Nintendo consoles. But then they launch the Saturn with Virtua Fighter and suddenly they are the #1 company now. So the word come down: drop fucking everything, we are pushing the Saturn, and we are pushing it NOW.

This ignored the fact that the Genesis was extremely strong even in 1995, that they had the 32x just launched, and that they didn't have enough units to do a proper launch of the Saturn. Neither games nor hardware.

But the word was that they had to launch immediately. So they made do with what they had, and it actually could have worked, but three things fucked them up:
- this killed the 32x prematurely, leaving everyone feeling like they have been played with.
- Sony held a conference, told the price for their console, and said nothing more. Everybody clapped.
- every store in America who wasn't part of the initial launch, they thought that Sega was having exclusive contracts with the other stores that got the Saturn. Combined with the resentment the 32x built up, stores dropped Sega hardware in droves, instead filling the aisles with Sony and Nintendo stuff.

That latter part killed the Saturn. You can't sell the console if stores won't carry them.

>why was Sega doomed because of the Saturn. This is what I don't understand.

All their goodwill and all their market share got evaporated, with the Saturn. Worse, Nintendo was so busy fucking over developers that they had their market share shrinking fast too. Sony meanwhile was pushing as aggressively as Sega did with the Genesis. They conquered the market; the Dreamcast had every star align for it perfectly but the Playstation brand was now so strong that they could kill the DC on rumours about the PS2 alone.

>>4166773
>Source?

Look up interviews with Don Goddard, Ofer Alon, etc.

Sega was trying to ditch the Saturn as early as 1996. First with a Nvidia machine using the NV2, so they can launch it with VF3. Nvidia couldn't get working silicon in short order, Sega dropped them on the spot. Then they went for 3dfx, but they made the deal public in their IPO, so Sega politely dropped them as well (as in, come up with bullshit excuses while switching to another platform - the sh4 + powervr2 that became the DC).

>>4166759
Xbox was more like the Dreamcast 1.5, while the Xbox 360 is the Dreamcast 2.

>>4166851
>Look up interviews with Don Goddard, Ofer Alon, etc.
?

Any source from SoJ themselves?

>>4166880
What, the guys who were *told* to write software for the theoretical new hardware is not good enough of a source?

You'll never, ever get sources from SoJ themselves, because:
1. most of them are dead by now (a lot of them were in the 80s by the time the DC launched)
2. they wouldn't talk to filthy gaijin
3. they wouldn't tell you the real truth, only a polite version of it, because anything else would be admitting that they did *anything* wrong. Honorabru samurai would not say anything bad about their employer, and they have to believe 100% mind and soul that they are doing the right thing.

I mean, look at their mentality: everybody knows that they fucked over Yu Suzuki and didn't let him work on anything that will be released after Shenmue. At one point they didn't even knew if he was still employed by them or not. But none of them ever confirmed anything about that.

>>4166765
>Which he did, and it's why it had a strong as fuck run.
not because it's actually a good console?

>>4165302
>Shenmue sells over a million copies at $50/copy
>$20m is somehow enough to sink a huge company
Yu Suzuki said that VF4 recouped Shenmue anyway.

>>4166907
>anything else would be admitting that they did *anything* wrong
Japanese businessmen take personal responsibility for failure all the fucking time. It's like a hallmark of their business culture.

>>4162608
You cant have a negative iq m8

>>4165302
Why make a sequel then?

>>4162403
>Still parading the Dreamcast 2 meme
Wouldn't happen and never going to happen.

Also one could argue that Bernie Stoler was kinda the one who suggested the Dreamcast to happen to begin with.

>>4162484
>SoA Staffer:Ok, so how are we gonna compete with Nintendo? SoJ gave us pretty much anything we could possibly ask for.
>SoA:WE ARE THE EXTREME COMPANY! FUCK YEAH! BLAST PROCESSING! WATCH THAT BLUE FUCKER MOVE FAST! PASS THE COCAINE!
Anon you win best post. America in a nutshell

>>4162383
Putting aside specific brand names. It seems like Japanese games companies as a whole, were of the mind that if it didn't sell well (or as well as they want it to) in the Japanese market (the core market) it either wouldn't sell well anywhere, or they didn't want their failure known worldwide. At least that's how it's always looked to me.

>>4165943
Die hard (Dynamite Deka)

Dynamite Cop (Dynamite Deka 2)

>>4165929
>>4166907
You should read Hardcore Gaming 101's book on Sega. They did get SoJ staffers on record and the whole problem was that SoJ was an incredibly toxic atmosphere and when times were good, they were good. But when times were bad, management took it out on staffers by berrating them and even beating them up in some cases. Management were in a constant state of ego and anger because the Mega Drive was a flop in Japan and behind the TG-16, never mind the SNES. Yet it was a roaring success in western markets. And SoJ's management blamed their own employees for it and made their life hell. Yuji Naka moved Sonic Team to the US purely to be away from SoJ. Yu Suzuki frequently used "Research Trips" as a way to get his team away from management.

There was major, major problems with SoJ's management before you even factored in SoA's methods causing conflict. Mostly because the MD was only keeping pace with the TG-16 in Japan while the SNES obliterated and their frustration was really evident.

Though "Welcome To The Next Level" was the campaign that really made Sega mainstream in the US, not "Genesis Does what Nintendon't",

>>4172385
I there a pdf of that book? which SoJ staffers did they interview?
>Though "Welcome To The Next Level" was the campaign that really made Sega mainstream in the US
I'm not from the US, but yes I remember WTTNL campaign (it was even on games boxes and all), I didn't know about the nintendon't one until the 2000s thanks to the internet.