Some people actually hate FFII! Did you know that?

It is the worst main series one

>>4161382
You have no taste

>>4161382
I don't know, Final Fantasy had some pretty bad stinkers.

>>4161382
Eh the 13 trilogy and X2 are worse.

>>4161382
easily better than X-2, XII and XIII tbqh, haven't played any FF after those tho

>>4161367
The people who hate FFII are those who look up the walkthroughs before playing. Many walkthroughs actually recommend the hit-your-own-characters for hours to grind HP bullshit. So those people think that it's needed and never try to play the game without doing this.

Wow! He likes FFII, what great taste. Please do make more threads about how great your taste is for liking such an underrated game, it's very important.

is there a more underrated 8-bit jrpg?

>>4161558
I don't think so, I think it is the most misunderstood though.

>>4161558
FFIII

Cause its a huge step up but no one talks about it besides the worse ds remake

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FF2's dungeon design is the pinnacle of the series

>>4161523
I played it as a kid and didn't get too far. Came back to it as an adult and heard this advice, ignored it and beat the game fine. My only real complaint is how useless a lot of the spells are vs. how much you'd have to grind to make them useful, but its otherwise the best Famicom FF for sure.

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>>4161523
I beat the gba version and I never looked up guides. FFII is by far my least favorite Final Fantasy game.

I didn't know about attacking your own party members but the game's leveling up system still sucks without doing that. Getting a new spell is the least rewarding thing ever as it does no damage (not leveled yet). Also Players are best rewarded for doing the same action every battle as that is the best way to level your character. This made every fight the exact same.
The story was a step up for the series but it's still horrible. I stopped caring about side characters dying after the second side character died.
And the dungeon maps are full of useless trap rooms as you can see here
>>4162059

I understand the desire to negate the amount of hate a game gets on the internet but it should be easy to see why most people dislike FFII.

The music was pretty good though

>>4161436
X2 is fine gameplay wise, its less linear than its predecessor, and you cant ruin a story that was bad to begin with

>>4161558
Yeah there are tons of 8 bit rpgs man not just ff dq and phantasy star

Like any title in the series I have my gripes with it. I will say there are more things I dislike about this game than other final Fantasy titles.

As everyone pointed out the leveling system is a joke. Being poor as fuck my first play through I learned unarmed becomes op and one sided quickly. Because of this every character had less than 1,500 hp and would just punch shit before any real damage was done.

Spells never got used. When I got fira even though it had the potential to be stronger than fire, I always used fire because by that time it did more than twice unleveled fira. Fuck grinding that much again.

Dungeon design was bs. Too many empty room or room that every step caused a battle. Because of the broken leveling system they weren't hard, just annoying.

Other minor things that were lame were all the forced deaths and the rather bland and unfinished feeling keyword system.


There are a lot of things about the game though that were just too soon or not quite fleshed out fully. Vagrant story had a similar leveling system and it was really nice and worked out well.

>>4162434
>Vagrant story had a similar leveling system and it was really nice and worked out well.
If I remember right the director of FF2 went on to direct the SaGa series, which are also basically "FF2's ideas but implemented well."

>>4162446
Something similar to that iirc. Not sure if it was a director, producer, designer, etc. Someone who worked on ffii was involved with SaGa though.

>>4162434
>When I got fira
Fira isn't in the game. There is only one of each elemental spell. What the fuck are you talking about?

>>4162461
Akitoshi Kawazu is the driving force for both Final Fantasy II and the SaGa series.

>>4162494
>What the fuck are you talking about?
A bunch of bullshit.

>>4162434
>Vagrant story had a similar leveling system
You only got character stats through defeating bosses, so no you didn't level your character the same way at all.

>>4162505
Yet if you used a sword a bunch, your sword damage increases while your spear still does mediocre damage. Weapons actually level just like in ff2.

>>4162494
>>4162503
The original game just had one version of the spells. Did the gba remakes change to fire, fire II, fire III, rather than fire, fira, firaga? I could see that leading to confusion or shitty memories. Unless he's thinking of another remake all together that changed up the names of things.

>>4162520
In every version of the game you simply have Fire, and it can be levelled from 1 to 16.

>>4162520
>. Weapons actually level just like in ff2.
No. Proficiency with weapons leveled up. In Vagrant Story the weapon itself got better through use. Not the case in Final Fantasy II. If you switched swords in Vagrant Story versus Final Fantasy II there would be a considerable difference in ability with FFII you just get a nice damage boost while in VS you could probably do less damage since it may not have the proper affinities.

>>4162543
So it was the same system from ff just fleshed out better... Exactly like that first guy said?

>>4162565
Getting better with a weapon branch and a weapon itself getting better are two different things.

>>4162571
Now you are just being pedantic.

Ff2
>use weapon x
>damage for X improves
Vs
>use weapon y
>damage for y improves

Be it a stat tied to the character or stats tied to the weapon the concept is the same. Use it to make it stronger. An idea that for the sake of argument started in ff2, and was tweaked and improved (subjectively) on later in vs. No one said they were identical.

>muh empty rooms
warp spell exists and gets you out of them for a measly 1mp
int scaling isn't relevant to its out of battle effect so you can throw it on someone that doesn't have any other use for their mp
even if you don't bother to increase their mp at all from the start of the game they can cast it 5 times
give them exit too and you can work your way through any dungeon
except the warship, which is admittedly a fuckfest

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>>4161558

The leveling system was garbage. A nice concept on paper, but absolutely horrible in execution.

The fact that they went back to regular leveling and never used FF2's system again, is only proof of this.

>>4161367
I don't but I'm not sure why I would play it in a world where SaGa exists and does what it does better.

>>4163214
>A nice concept on paper, but absolutely horrible in execution.

I see this mentioned a lot, but what exactly makes the execution so absolutely horrible?
the only thing I didn't care for was the spell system, otherwise I played the game normally and managed just fine, in fact I ended up grinding less than in 1 or 3

>The fact that they went back to regular leveling and never used FF2's system again, is only proof of this.
Square abandoned a lot of their ideas over the years, good and bad
and if it was so absolutely horrible why would they let kawazu make the saga series?

>>4161436
>>4161506
>It is the worst main series one
>main series
>jump to XIII trilogy and X-2
I guess it's true after all.

>>4163285
never said anything about the XIII trilogy, just XIII
I'll give you X-2, but how are XII and XIII not a part of the main series?

>>4161367
Played it as a kid. Enjoyed it, but got my ass kicked hard. I appreciated the levelling innovations but generally preferred I.

>>4163256
>what exactly makes the execution so absolutely horrible?

Because it doesn't fit with the rest of the game's mechanics, and limits you in clunky ways.

Oh, you found a new weapon that has higher attack than your current one? Nope, can't use it, because you'd have to start from skill level 1 and do way, way less damage for 70+ battles so it's just not worth the effort

Oh, you found a new spell? Have fun spamming it nonstop to level it up just so it does the same damage as the spell you already have

And then there's the whole "you have to lose health to gain max health" crap, which just leads to friendly fire farming

Really, it all boils down to making the game insanely grindy for no good reason.

It's a nice idea, it just does not fit with an old fashioned turn-based RPG.

>>4163528
You have four characters in your party who can each specialize in a different weapon type.
Also raising the max health hurts more than it helps since many enemies enemies do % damage while healing items heal fixed amount of HP.

>>4163528
>Oh, you found a new weapon that has higher attack than your current one? Nope, can't use it, because you'd have to start from skill level 1 and do way, way less damage for 70+ battles so it's just not worth the effort
Idk, that makes sense to me, I just sell the weapons I don't need
didn't like the spell system, and letting you get HP by hitting yourself is definitely an oversight but I suspect they didn't fix it because then people would complain even more, luckily it can be completely ignored
like the other anon said, I specialized my characters (one fighter and two mages in the back row) and ended up grinding less than in other NES FFs

>>4161367
The best entry in the series? Why would they hate it?

>>4163528
>Oh, you found a new spell? Have fun spamming it nonstop to level it up just so it does the same damage as the spell you already have
I don't understand. With the exception of Flare and Ultima, you just have basic elemental magic that you specialize in. It's not as if you can have Fire level 50 and then run into Fira.

>>4162434
>Being poor as fuck my first play through I learned unarmed becomes op and one sided quickly.
Every FF has an op combination
>Spells never got used.
So what, the game gives you the freedom to use them. I'd rather be able to choose than being forced to use them.
>Too many empty room or room that every step caused a battle
This is a staple in FF. I can't think of many games outside FF doing this. Yes, maybe there are one of two more rooms than in any other game, so what? more random encounters? Literally the same effect than simply walking.
>all the forced deaths
Another staple. Beside 1 and 3, tell me a FF in which characters don't die. The best part about 2 is that they won't return
>rather bland and unfinished feeling keyword system.
Yes, this could be more flexible, but at worst it works as it if wasn't there. Play any Ultima to know the difference

The game is great, and people hate on it because:
-Not flashy characters ala 6/4
-Not customizable enough ala 5.

>>4161367
I dunno I liked the summons and Golbez wrecking shit.

>>4161367
Not just 2, but all of them. I'd know, cause I'm one of them. ;3

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>>4163650

>>4162734
Because
>Get a new weapon
>Automatically become more powerful
Versus
>Get a new weapon
>Have to either forge it or grind out affinities in order to fulfill the same function as the previous weapon but stronger
There is no downside in upgrading to the next tier of weapons of the class of weapons that the character specializes in were as in Vagrant Story you are more likely to hold onto a weapon for a bit longer and will only rid of it if you forge a new weapon with similar affinities.

>>4163528
>Oh, you found a new weapon that has higher attack than your current one? Nope, can't use it, because you'd have to start from skill level 1 and do way, way less damage for 70+ battles so it's just not worth the effort
Maybe you should stick to the weapon types you are already utilizing. If you've been using swords a ton just stick with them, you will find a stronger one.
>Oh, you found a new spell? Have fun spamming it nonstop to level it up just so it does the same damage as the spell you already have
Your mage should be casting spells constantly anyways to increase MP, up spell levels, and raise Int.
>And then there's the whole "you have to lose health to gain max health" crap, which just leads to friendly fire farming
Or you just don't do the same habit like you do in all other JRPG's in topping everyone's HP off and going into battles with half HP or even less. Risk for a HP gain reward.

>>4164431
You are still reading way to far into this.
FFII, use a weapon and it gets stronger
VS, use a weapon and it gets stronger
*how* they get stronger has already be pointed out and accepted as different. As in they are NOT identical. Anything else you start to add would fall into that "fleshed out and improved" area. Curb your autism.

The system isn't whats the same its the concept. In FFII if Guy only used axes hes axe game would be on point. So yes every new axe you got would make him stronger. However if you were to equip a great sword to him, even a late game one if he never used a sword his damage would be higher with a mid game axe vs end game great sword. So in a way its similar to VS. Just getting a new weapon doesn't mean its magically better than the old one. In short the damage goes beyond "This character has high ATK, lets give him a melee weapon." There is a some added in factor based around your weapon as well.

>>4163594
>Every FF has an op combination
No shit, you don't say? Are those broken combos things you can get right at the get go 5 minutes into the game or they things you have to work towards like the FFVII materia combos?
>So what, the game gives you the freedom to use them.
Every game gives you that option. FF3 you can never pick the black mage job and win no problem. Hell in FF3 there are what 20+ jobs? If that isn't options I don't know what is. While every job isn't OP, each one has a unique quirk and was at least worth changing into each job just to play around with for fun. FF4 you can have rydia only use her whip. The point there was rather than a choice to use one means of attack, there is no incentive to make that choice. Bare-knuckle brawling grows faster than any damage your magic flames can. In other titles the spells while still optional at least did more damage than melee did at that time or would make some bosses easier than without. In FF2 every boss has a glass jaw and gets punched to death.
>This is a staple in FF. I can't think of many games outside FF doing this.
Its the annoyance factor. They also aren't that much of a staple. Yeah, they show up here and there but never in the quantity that FF2 does. Name a dungeon that doesn't have those trap rooms in FF2.
>Another staple. Beside 1 and 3, tell me a FF in which characters don't die. The best part about 2 is that they won't return
Never said it was unique. In this game its not just that they die. Its they die for no reason or in some forced emotional ass pull. They have 0 personality and no real attachment to the party or player. In FF3 Doga sacrificing himself was like loosing an old mentor. In FF4 the revolving door of party members was lame but the characters had a connection at least. FF7 at the time was notorious with the party's death. Now its been memed to death and lost its impact.

>>4162434
> Fira

*in extremely Eric Andre voice*
What in the goddamn hell are you talking about?

There was no Fira. Only one version of each spell that you could max out to 15 or 16.

Anyways. I liked FF2. It was definitely not the greatest entry, though. Very tedious. I played the nes fantranslation and the gba port. The nes rom was much harder. I dunno about all this "magic is useless" stuff but it was critical for me. Maria full blown carried the team as my Archer Mage with heals and nukes. Firion and Guy pretty much just soaked damage and dealt moderate to high physical damage, with Firion being sword and board plus backup moderate heals and Guy being dualwielding berserker with high hp and almost no magic.

The only two nonmain-char party members that I found useful were Leila and Ricard. Leila as a weaker but faster dual wielder and Ricard as a second sword and board but spears and zero magic.

By the time I got to the end of the game I had no desire to build Leon. He was just there and fed whatever gear I had left/scrounged; and then he died against the Emperor, leaving Firion, Maria, and Guy to 3 man him. I also didnt use the Drain Sword trick.

The GBA port was a bit easier. Same tactics.

>>4163131
Oh shit lol. This game is alright. Love the music.

>>4161367
Some people lick each other's buttholes, too.
What's your point?

>>4164748
>Some people lick each other's buttholes

Still better than FF2 desu

>>4161367
Wild Rose

>>4164920
?

>>4162494
Bullshit. A lot of people haven't actually played FF2 and just extrapolate on what the gameplay must be like based on what they read about it so you end up with people like him. It's not the first time I've seen someone make that mistake.

I thought FF2 was pretty fun. Sure, the leveling was weird, but honestly, by using spells regularly, my mage eventually became pretty strong. Particularly against enemies that were strong to physical attacks and had weakness to a specific element. To say nothing of how buffs could completely monsterize your party and the fact that they didn't wear off.

I'd say my biggest complaint was that when you finally do get your permanent final party member, the game is basically over, and he fuckin sucks. They gave him a really high magic stat, but only start him with 5 MP and no spells at all, what the fuck is that?

>>4161367
Is there a romhack of this game that gives it a more sensible level progression system rather than the proto-SaGa shit it does that sucks and makes no sense?
>inb4 pleb
I apologise for not enjoying wearing no armor and hitting my own party members for hours on end.

>>4165186

If you just play the game, you'll find that it actually works fairly well if you just play by its rules.

>>4165186
why even play the game if you're going to remove its defining feature, its leveling system?
just play another game that doesn't have it

>>4162394
In the famicom version, your stats could randomly go down just as they went up, and nearly every single piece of equipment completely tanks your magic casting
I played it back in 1998 when the first translation was done and there was only one barebones english FAQ on the internet, I didn't have a lot of fun sadly

>>4165361
Those features make the Famicom and WonderSwan versions the best versions. The game got progressively casualized with each remake, butchering the original intent.

>>4166063
How's the PS1 version? I recall the FF1 remake had options so you could set it up to essentially just be a bugfixed NES version (Being able to turn off dashing, retargeting, etc).

>>4166109
I haven't played the PS1 version but I've heard it's more or less the same as the WonderSwan version, unless you're playing on easy mode. Those options (dashing, auto-retargeting) can also be turned on or off in the WonderSwan version.

I agree with the above posters. If you just play the game it all ends up working out and you dont have to friendly fire.

The best way to exlain it is what a friend told me about Oblivion's (not retro, I know) stat system. He said, " What you do is what you get." It fits well with FF2. If you use melee gear, you have melee stats. If you use melee stats, they increase at the cost of your magic stats reducing. Inverse for use of magic gears/stats. Just decide on 3 main roles, specialize for it, and know your 4th char is going to moderately support with either some physical variation or heals.

What you do is what you get.