Wizardry

>>4108359
It depends on what you want. I recommend the Super Famicom "Story of Lyllgamen" remakes if you want to play them in order.

Wizardry is cool because it was the firs game to really "get" what makes turn based RPG's good. From a design standpoint, almost every dungeon crawler is indebted to it.

Its just a cool game and a paragon of its genre, not for everyone but pretty sweet if you can get into it.

I think V is a nice bridge between 1-3 and 6-8. You get a classic town centered dungeons while also encountering NPCs and the like.
It's also a bit fairer so you're not as likely to get ambushed by enemies that kill you in one hit. On top of that you can even export your party to 1 and 2 and with limitations to 3.

>>4108359
i am trying out wiz6

how do i know what attribute points go where? i'm confus

>>4108445
RTFM

Aren't these games unfairly hard

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>>4108359
I can tell you about Wizardry 1 to 4. Note that I have played the console versions (1-3 on SNES, 4 on PS1) and not the originals.

The first one is kind of a mess. It's a grindfest, and it's one of the few games that I can say: Just use savestates. Not worth the trouble grinding up a new party after teleporting into a rock / getting decapitated by a group of high level ninjas, or losing hours and hours of grind by getting your levels drained by vampires. It's a really frustrating experience. If you really dislike savestates and would never use them, don't play the game, unless you REALLY want to have that experience.

Wizardry 2 (Knight of the diamonds I think it's the third one on the snes version) is my favorite of the original trilogy. Not much savestates needed, but still hard. There's a ton of boss fights against enchanted pieces of armor. And you can use them after that. It's very rewarding and fun.

Wizardry 3 (Legacy of Llylgamyn, second one on SNES): Honestly I don't remember much of it. There's a dragon, that's all I can remember. Pretty forgettable on my opinion.

4: I fucking love the game, as a huge fan of the Shin Megami Tensei series, the game is awesome. No savestates are needed since you can save anytime, though you can't do this on the original version (on the original version, every enemy respawn after you save, on the PS1 version the enemies respawn after you load). I used guides here and there because I'm a fucking casual and because there's some shit I would never figure out, but it's still one amazing game, and the PS1 version is really really beautiful.

>continue on the next post

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>>4108469
What makes 4 so much different from the first trilogy is that you play as the antagonist of the first game, and you can summon monsters in pentagrams (the same monsters that destroyed you on the other games) and kill a bunch of "do-gooders", parties of heroes with the same classes you could have on 1 to 3. You can't control this monsters, but there's a lot of room to try shit out.

Japanese hate on the game because they noticed the Wizardry series is actually not serious business and they could not figure out the puzzles. Everyone hate on the game because it's hard, but the PS1 version is pretty doable (not sure how much easier it is).

On the PS1 version there's also one option to play the game exactly like the original version, with old graphics and all, and one "arranged mode". I'm not sure what it does, the only thing I know is that you can actually control your monsters, but can't have more than one like the normal version. Probably changing a LOT of the old strategies. It's japanese only though, unlike the original game that can be put 99% on english.

The rest: I skipped 5 because after the great experience I had with Wizardry 4 I could not come back to the same old formula. I'm playing Wizardry 6 right now, and it's probably the best place to start. Great atmosphere, fun battles, and great dungeon-crawling. Very solid game, and I want to go all the way to 8 with the same party.

:tl;dr: Start 6, 1 if you have crazy patience, try the 4th on the PS1.

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>>4108359
Obligatory

>>4108469
You can just reset the game if you don't like the results of an encounter.
You're not going to teleport into rock unless you're retarded.

>>4108482
I actually never thought about it.

I actually teleported into a rock once because I didn't know how the teleport spell worked.

Either way I only used save states to keep my party alive and go back to it if something bad happened (saved on the first floor). Not like it's a huge walk from the first floor to Werdna anyway.

>>4108476
true vidya kino

>>4108476
Some things that image didn't capture
>The Ghost
It moves in real time. Meaning that if you stay still too long, the ghost gets you. If you're in the middle of a random battle, it gets you. It's like a pissed off FOE on crack.
>The first room
The puzzle in the first room is hard to describe, but what I can say about it is that it was actually SO difficult, that the second printing of the game, the instruction manual came with a sealed section with the solution of the first room and how to get out of it. It was so notorious that the creators of the game would give you a prize if you mailed them a photo of the end credits and the still-sealed instruction manual proving that you solved the first room on your own.

Does /vr/ dislike Wizardry 8 or something? I bought it, but still haven't manned up to play it due to hearing so much shit about it on /v/, /vr/ and the codex

Why do you guys hype the difficulty up so much? It doesn't even sound fun, it makes Wizardry sound like a fucking chore. I'd rather play some Might & Magic games I guess, because I can actually have fun in those and they mostly aren't absurdly difficult beyond reasoning.

>>4110319
It's a good game, plenty of internet nerds say it's the best one. I like it a lot but it's a slog. You don't walk anywhere in the game, you move around by fighting. Monsters after monsters, back to back to back. It can feel like a chore. There's a mod to speed up fights, I think. That should help.

>>4110320
i have had a lot more fun with might and magic as well. wiz 6 is overall pretty enjoyable but 7 is just an absolute drag, even with a better ui and actual different tilesets. ive tried to get into 7 a half dozen times but i never have the heart to really go for it and take notes, rememberwhere i drop equipment, who to talk to, etc.

>Is there a "definitive" game that newcomers are supposed to start with
It's basically split into 4 "eras", so to speak

Wizardry 8
Wizardry 6/7
Wizardry 1-5 (not 4)

and Wizardry 4 as its weird little thing.

I recommend 8 -> 5 -> 6/7 with maybe 1 for historical reasons. 4 should be checked out once you have some experience but don't expect to complete it without a walkthrough.

If you plan to play the Japanese ones, they basically stop at around 5's era, so that's a good introduction.

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How the fuck do you shift you alignment back to good if you accidentally fight a friendly enemy? I don't want to resort to save states.

>>4110587
Spare enemies a lot, I think.

and I do mean "a lot"

>>4110587
By sparing enemies. Everytime you spare enemies there's a chance that one of your characters (or more) you turn good.

It's a pain in the ass.

>>4110320
>>4110440
After Wizardry I just couldn't find M&M enjoyable any more. Even holding back it all boiled down to spamming S with no real danger involved.

>>4110440
Wiz 7 also happens to be one of the most nauseatingly ugly games i've ever played.

>>4110578
>If you plan to play the Japanese ones, they basically stop at around 5's era, so that's a good introduction.
They used races and classes from 6 in their later games.

Wizardry 2 and 3 can't really be considered distinct games, they're just addons for 1.

>>4110440
7 is a bloated mess

I like Wiz8 the most, dunno if it can be considered "retro" though.

I recently played through The Quest on a whim and it was...well actually a little boring to be honest, but a lot of that was down to the stat/progression-system and only controlling one dude. Still fun enough to make me play some more old-style RPGs though, and I have W8 in my library from some sale or another anyway. Was wondering, are there any recommended mods for first-time playthroughs? Whether graphics/resolution/whatever or otherwise essential additons, changes or fan-patches.

>>4111159
>>4111084
I feel like Wiz 7 only gets praised from people who played it in the 90s when long playing time was seen as an advantage.

>>4111252
>Whether graphics/resolution/whatever or otherwise essential additons, changes or fan-patches.
You want the faster combat mod at bare minimum unless you want to die of old age waiting for 30 enemies to take their turns.

It's one part of the Wizardry 8 Enhancement mod that you can download individually, which is another mod I would optionally recommend - it sticks to Vanilla Wiz 8 pretty closely, just with balance tweaks here and there.
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/wizardry-8-enhancements-a-call-to-arms.79581/

The rest of currently existing Wiz 8 mods are basically total conversions that are usually aimed towards min-maxers. I wouldn't recommend them for first playthroughs at all.

>>4112604
Cool, thanks for the advice anon. Looks like some nicely modest changes for a first-time playthrough.

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Nothing like spending hours grinding up my Wizardry 1 party (2 samurais, one fighter, one bishop, two mages - sometimes 2 bishops instead) - shitloads of time grinding Murphy's Ghosts on floor 1, only to be wiped out almost instantaneously by a surprise attack on floor 4. Or breath attacks on floor 5.

How on earth is anyone supposed to withstand this shit? Are stats important? Even with high agility and DILTO or MORLIS cast, it feels like my fighters miss half the time.

>>4114042
>sometimes 2 bishops instead)
Why? Bishops are worthless unless you are utterly overleveled. Their only advantage is the ability to identify which can be done by a level 1 bishop.
Do you have no thief to open chests? You need equipment and thieves are the only way to get it.

Bad luck encounters can happen but the only thing that should be able to instantly kill you on level 4 is the control room.
Prioritize dangerous enemies, take them out with all means necessary or flee if you have no better option.

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>>4114081
>Bishops are worthless unless you are utterly overleveled
I must still have a lot to learn. I thought the mix of offensive and healing magic would be useful.

I have a L9 thief, but haven't used him in a while since chests haven't seemed to be worth the trouble to get handfuls of gold versus all the traps that they have. He just sits in the back row parrying while having two mages seemed to offer more offensive capabilities. You're saying that better equipment is there? Maybe in the lower levels; I'll have to load up a previous save (my party just got wiped).

I always wondered if playing from 6 to 8 carryng my saves over would be worth it

but Wiz 6 is just so goddam ugly, I could get into 7 despite that mall ass window but I cant stand that awful color pallete and all those gray walls that in some areas are supposed to represent forests

I dunno, maybe I should just jump to 8

>>4114105
You can take a mage to level 13 and then reclass him to a cleric and get him to level 13 again so that he has all spells in the game.

A pure bishop with the same amount of exp would just start to learn his first level 4 spells.

>>4114105
Note that Bishops learn new mage and priests spells every four levels while mages, priests and lords learn them every 2 and samurai every 3 levels. This means they get a lot of low level spells but not the high level spells you really want. Not to forget they level slower than a mage or priest.

>I'll have to load up a previous save (my party just got wiped).
Just reset the game before your party is wiped.

>>4108469
>The first one is kind of a mess. It's a grindfest, and it's one of the few games that I can say: Just use savestates. Not worth the trouble grinding up a new party after teleporting into a rock / getting decapitated by a group of high level ninjas, or losing hours and hours of grind by getting your levels drained by vampires. It's a really frustrating experience. If you really dislike savestates and would never use them, don't play the game, unless you REALLY want to have that experience.

I just finished the first two games (PS1 versions) What I found weird about 1 was that the first 3 floors are full of keys and statues to find, so you have to fully explore them. Then the last part of floor 4 has a little boss encounter and you get a bit of story about Werdna and another key item. Great.

After that though, you find the second elevator and have free access to every floor after that point. I made a point to not use it to skip downwards and explore each level enough to find the stairs down instead, but I still got through them fairly quickly. When I got to Werdna's floor I wasn't powerful enough and just ended up grinding until I learned Tiltowait an Mahaman.

I liked 2 a lot more as well. It was way more satisfying to have each new floor gated with a boss fight that gives you a sweet new item. The only thing is that I was really expecting there to be one last fight after you do the Sphynx's riddle thing on the last floor.

>>4108469
>>4108470
Nice to see a level headed Wizardry fan that's not a masochist.

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>>4114120
>>4114121
Shit, I may have fucked up by making my priests into bishops then. My best bishop has level 6 spells, and I guess it will take him forever to learn new ones. The HP increases are nice (my level 8 and 10 elf mages are still stuck with like 30ish hp), but shit. Does this mean I need to make new priests, and grind them up to a respectable level just to compensate, or should I reclass the bishops back as priests (and down to level 1) and start the process over again? Seems like a lose-lose proposition!

>>4115651
>My best bishop has level 6 spells,
So he's level 23? There's only 7 levels of spells so you may as well pull him through.
Are your fighters level 30 or something?

>>4108469
>>4108470
tabletop nerd here

Wizardy has two periods: the original trilogy + 4, which was in direct competition with ultima and became massive in japan.

THe problem with early wizardry is that it was taken over by hardcore gamers (literally, wiz 4 was made with fan producers), and turned an already hard game into a ridiculous grindfest with The Return of Werdna, and sealed the fate of the original devs because they the US market against ultima

And the later franchise where the original producer lost control of the game where made mainly to cash in the 80s Japanese RPG and tabletop explosion, which has the most accessible games

The first four aren't really bad games, they have some glaring balance problems and are terribly dated in terms of gameplay, but if you are checking up the original games then you clearly have an interest in the genre and these problems will mean little to you.

>>4114042
When in doubt, apply the nethack strategy: get the fuck out of dodge

only engage when absolutely encessary

>>4114115
Wizardry 8 is the best in the series, for sure. Flawed as it, it got some things right that you won't see in any other RPG that came before or after.

I don't suggest carrying your party from 7 to 8 unless you aim for a specific ending in 7. It's best (balance and gameplay-wise) to use default start with a new party and monastery is one of the best starting dungeons in an RPG period .

What's a recommended party in Wizardry 8? I'm guessing this isn't a game where I can just play as whatever I think looks fun

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>>4115903
I need to re-check what my party is when I am back at the game, but I upgraded him after getting to level 10ish, and he is level 7 or 8 now, IIRC. I might misremember, but there are definitely a lot of level 5 spells; I am sure there are lvl 6 there too.

My fighters are (going from memory)
lvl 7 Samurai (upgraded from lvl10 or so fighter)
lvl 6 Samurai (upgraded from lvl 10 or so fighter)
lvl 10 Fighter

plus a newbie I created, lvl 8 fighter, who has better stats than the Samurai. Go Figure.

>>4115963
Ha, in the later floors I have run more than not.

>>4116009
(and by later I mean floors 5 and 6, because I am a scrub)

>>4115960
>grindfest with The Return of Werdna
Grinding implies some kind of progress. In Wiz 4 you are mainly running against a wall.

Wizardry vs Ultima turned out rather onesided. Wizardry 1 was a far better game than Ultima 1 but where Ultima tried to improved, invented and tried to reach new players, Wizardry stagnated and sealed itself off to newcomers. For a long time Wizardry was exclusive for the Apple II and you needed 1 to even play 2 or 3. Without the Japanese it may very well stayed that way.

>reroll for an hour to get decent stat points at character creation
>have to do it five more times

WOW SO MUCH FUN

>characters can age and DIE

WOW SIGN ME UP WIZ9 WHEN

>>4117351
Rerolling in Wizardry isn't that bad since you only have to pay attention to one stat. 18 bonus points aren't that rare.
Age isn't an issue unless you're stupid enough to sleep in the inns.

>>4117351
This was fixed in Wiz 8. Class/stat system is broken in Wiz 6-7 unless you either 1) enjoy power-gaming to its extreme spending hours re-rolling stats on generation and level up or 2) pretend the system doesn't exist and "roleplay"
>>4115986
You can. This is the beauty of Wiz 8 - pick what looks fun and make it work. There are no trap choices here, every class has a place to shine.

>>4117516
>There are no trap choices here, every class has a place to shine.
IMO, Ninjas and Bishops are pretty easy for a newbie to fuck up - and while Bishops is probably the best caster in the game if you're willing to powergame as hell, I'm not sure Ninjas even shine outside of anything other than the memetic Fairy Ninja.

Fucking up doesn't drop you to the point of "game is unwinnable" but it certainly makes the combat a lot more tedious.

The rest of the classes are on an acceptable level I suppose.

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How much rigging is considered acceptable if you don't want to waste an hour to roll for good stats?

I came up with this party for Wiz8. Am I going to be fine? Never played any of the games.

Dracon Fighter
Cat Rogue
Hobbit Gadgeteer
Elf Alchemist
Fae Mage
Elf Bishop

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anon here >>4115651 >>4116009

I reloaded a much earlier save, before i had upgraded my priests into bishops, and made some good progress. I got the Blue Ribbon from that tough fight against the large party of knights, wizards, and priests on the 4th floor. The spell, MANAKITO (sp), which kills every enemy below level 8, has turned out to be a godsend in these floors (I only just realized its use). A few times I died, but I resurrected instead of just reloading - I had earned enough to not be hit too hard by the 2000 and 2500 resurrection costs.

I also got that ring that drains life from its holder, though I can't afford to identify it (can't bishops identify items?).

I have a question about class upgrades. My party now has two level 10 fighters, level 10 thief, level 10 mage, and level 10 priest. The amount of EXP to get to a new class is pretty absurdly high at this point (tens of thousands of EXP). Is this supposed to be the "natural" time to change classes? Is there a benefit to changing classes in Wizardry 1 outside of getting new magic spells as a Samurai or Lord, for example?

I wonder if I should switch over the fighters to Samurai, or if its better to keep them where they are at. Or if I should switch the mage over to priest and vice versa for the easy learning of spells. Feels good that this is the first time I've made serious progress in almost a year.

>>4119609
>can't bishops identify items?).
That's their whole point. Let them identify the ring and sell it for big cash.
>"natural" time to change classes?
That would be level 13 because you gain the last new level of spells for mages and priests there. But at the same time the XP curve changes from exponential to linear.
>Is there a benefit to changing classes in Wizardry 1
Don't. You lose all your stats and penetration power. You can change from fighter but I would recommend against other changes.
Most beneficial should be a lord since extra healing can always come handy and their equipment can be better.

>>4110320
It's mostly the first handful games that are infamous for their difficulty, if I'm remembering this right. I believe after a while they started to mellow out and became much easier to get into.

>>4119619
Even 6 is still brutal and the start arguably harder since you can't replace or revive dead characters.

>>4119442
>Am I going to be fine?
Yes

Okay, so I put on my big boy pants and want to give wizardry 1 a go, what's the best version to play?

>>4119680
Probably the PSX compilation

>>4110356
>mod to speed up fights
Got a Link? All I can find are sites for a mod that lead to a dead link.

Do I really need to change classes in post Wizardry V games? Or is it just a powergaming thing?

>>4119680
PS1, SNES and NES remakes are all decent.

>>4119890
I'm playing Wiz 6 and it seems really necessary.

>>4119890
It's possible to beat the older Wizardry games without reclassing too.

>>4119680
Depends on what you want.
If you like it old school with wireframe dungeons, no music and keyboard inputs, play the PC98 version.
If you want more colors, sound, menu based controls and the option for an automap, play the PS1 or SFC versions.
There's also a Windows version but it's nowhere to be found.

>>4119609
>upgraded my priests into bishops,
I think you'd get better results by making new priests with high piety and vitality. That way you get more spells and HP.

>>4119890
>Do I really need to change classes in post Wizardry V games? Or is it just a powergaming thing?
Class Change is terrible in 8.

It's complicated in 6-7 - just level itself affects stuff in the formulas like To-Hit and Magic Resistance IIRC so constantly reclassing without any idea of what you're doing can end up hindering the growth of your numbers because you keep resetting to level 1.

>>4110356
"Wiz8 too slow" is a meme by ADHD children. It's fine 99.9% of time, just set walk/animation speed to fast. 0.1% is triggering a big fight in T-Rang/Umpani compound or something but that's completely optional anyway.

>>4119890
6-7 have a pretty broken class system with things that make zero intuitive sense so prepare to spend hours reading up on how things work if you want to min-max, which is sort of required to beat all wiz 7 content on highest difficulty.

I'd honestly just play 6, then skip straight to 8. 7 aged badly, much worse than 1-6.

>>4120049
>I'd honestly just play 6, then skip straight to 8. 7 aged badly, much worse than 1-6.
Skipping the best one?

>>4120049
>which is sort of required to beat all wiz 7 content on highest difficulty.
It's one or two monsters guarding lousy chests. The difficulty doesn't even matter since bosses don't get multiplied.
High difficulty actually makes things easier since you get more experience without a huge increase in challenge. In the end I reduced the difficulty because I didn't feel like leveling after every encounter.
The biggest advantage from class changing is getting Ninjutsu and Kirijutsu for everybody.

>>4120058
How is 7 the best one?

>>4120061
>How is 7 the best one?
Big, non-linear overworld and the Enemy NPC Parties were an interesting concept (though I think they weren't really executed that well), I guess.

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I still scratch my head every time I remember Dir en grey were actually playable characters on Wizardry Online, and also got their songs on the game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1_ocZtPBK4

Why is Wizardry such a big deal in Japan even today?
I mean, the franchise is basically japanese by now.
It's like the opposite of japanese franchises getting western developers (silent hill, castlevania, etc)

>>4120210
>Big, non-linear overworld
Neither of those is a plus. The game just drags on forever with no real progress.
Puzzles are extremely random in what item you need where.
Even walking down a road become a chore with enemies popping up every two steps.

>>4119631
I mean yeah, they never get EASY easy.

>>4120218
The Japanese seem more willing to cling to their past rather than chase "innovation"

Ironically one of the draws for Wizardry in Japan seems to be that most of its Japanese fans seem to think it represents "dark gritty fantasy" (yes, I know there's a couple Japanese Wizardries with Anime artstyle, but they mostly trend towards the more Seinen-like artstyle) so there's a niche there compared to something like Dragon Quest.

>>4120218
>>4120245
>like the opposite of japanese franchises getting western developers (silent hill, castlevania, etc)
Japs love Grinds and Dungeons which Wizardry had plenty off.
Make no mistake, for every hardcome gamer in Japan there are 50 casuals and game where you grind to win if you have no skill is right up their alley.

>>4120245
This strikes me as funny. Wizardry was goofy as shit, in every installment. I still chuckle when I think about Werdna calling every hero a "do-gooder."

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>>4120489

>>4120489
Wizardry 4 is the goofiest, but japanese people hated it because they could never figure out the puzzles.

I just killed Gregor on my first try. He was immune to every disabling spell I tried and my duct tape backfired and paralyzed my own gadgeteer. And my fighter was on 5 health.
Then I got 30 damage hits on berserk 3 turns in a row, while he was chain stunned from sling shots and my bishop's pathetic mace attacks.

Eat that, you newbie killer meme.

>>4119847
>>4110319
install both:
https://www.gog.com/forum/wizardry_series/wizadry_8_speed_mod

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://wolfie.wiz8.de/Wiz8Fast.html

I used to play it when I was a kid with a book nearby because turns could take 60-90 second and didn't require any special input ("everyone attack") + 50% miss rate on everybody.
I'm playing it again and it's unplayable without the mods.

It's a really great game. Worth the minimal effort.

Is there any downside in Wiz8 for taking my time, backtracking, killing extra enemies, resting a lot, etc?
I read somewhere that in Wiz7 there were npc adventurers that might loot good items if you weren't fast enough, anything like that or time limits in 8?

>>4120489
One of the strongest weapons is a food processor you use as a sword, and I'm pretty sure there is a Fozzy Bear statue in the first game. Wizardry has always been silly.

Can I do anything to prevent my mage getting sniped in the back row every fucking time in 8? They can just shoot through my other characters where I can't, since it says it's blocked.

>>4120896
>Is there any downside in Wiz8 for taking my time, backtracking, killing extra enemies, resting a lot, etc?
Enemy spawns are based off time and sleeping makes it pass very fast, if I'm not wrong.

It's where you get the 50 enemy pile-up randoms because people rest a lot and all the spawns start stacking on each other.

No time limits and other concepts in W8, so it won't make the game unwinnable, just really tedious to clear out all that shit.

>>4121151
Missile Shield?

So I take it there is no defense against enemies that drain you levels in the early Wizardry titles? In Wizardry 1 I was exploring the lower floors for the first time (5, 6, 8) when I ran into Shades that drained from one of my fighters. Nothing like losing all of that grinding in one go.

I did eventually make a new bishop to exclusively identify items like that Ring of Death you can grind from the boss mob on level 4. No more money problems. Now I just need to find out how to survive more than a couple of encounters before running back to the surface to replenish magic. It also sucks that my fighters seem to too often just hit for 3 or so damage. This rolling system man.

And hey how about that area on floor 5 that casts a permanent Silence on your party until you leave the dungeon? Pretty fuckin' cool, eh?

Is magic a big fucking trap in wizardry 8?
It's like every fucking enemy has 90%+ resistance against everything.
5 Bandit Highwaymen. All spells hit every one of them.
-2x sleep: no effect
-1x freeze flesh: 1 of them hit
-1x blinding flash: 1 hit
-2x itching skin: no effect

They instantly surround me, can't do jackshit. Spells literally don't work. I get the jump on them, get to cast twice before they reach me in melee, but it's all pointless when they just resist everything.
And of course they are allowed to spam poison on their normal attacks, while I have to give up doing damage in order to apply status effects (which don't work most of the time).

>>4122460
Magic is good for Utility. For example, the buff spells like Soul Shield / Element Shield is vital for protecting against status ailments as the game goes on.

It's true that Resistance is probably a bit too high for most enemies in the game, but there are some enemies with obvious "weaknesses" (relatively speaking) to take advantage of - the most common enemy type in the late game has a very low Water resistance, for example.

Generally speaking, you don't really want to cast Offense spells with anything other than Pure Casters because of the way level difference has a huge effect on the formula.

I assume you're on Arnika Road, which is agreed to be one of the hardest parts of the game. Don't walk in the middle of the road but instead travel on the sides so that you can slam your back against a walk and reduce how many enemies can surround you at a time.

>>4122579
I've been to Arnika and back. First time on the road was much easier with level 5 enemies, didn't have problems. I went back to check out the Monastery once more. Now they are level 9-10 and resist everything.
Do I need to grind my realm skills heavily to make spells work better?

I read that damage spells are useless, but I expected debuffs to work better.

Just play Wizards and Warriors.

>>4108359
Grimoire fiasco, can you elaborate? I'm not familiar

>>4122362
>So I take it there is no defense against enemies that drain you levels in the early Wizardry titles?
Reset.
I can deal with dead characters and even retrieved a whole party from the bottom of a dungeon but losing half your XP is too much for me.

>>4122751
A game in development for 23 years by a notorious liar developer. There were several release dates announced in the past, in 2014 and earlier that were missed because REASONS.
The latest release date was on 7/7 and he even sold copies on Steam and it's still not out because he "found some microbugs" again. People are split between being pissed or just making fun of the whole thing since this has been going on literally for decades.

>>4122848
Which game? Did you mean Grimoire Manastorm?

>>4122857
No, this.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/650670/Grimoire__Heralds_of_the_Winged_Exemplar/

>>4122864
Ah, thanks for the info m9

This game is fucking tedious. Why does everything have so much health?
Same level enemy casters have 3-4 times the health of mine, almost as much as my melee. And their melee has 1.5-2 times the health of my same leveled tank.
No wonder damage spells are useless when every enemy gets such a ridiculous health boost.

Which of the japanese games are good to try if I want the classic tile-based stuff but without the bullshit difficulty/grind?

I apologize for spamming this thread with my butthurt, feel free to ignore me. But I'm so fucking done with this game and need to vent. Went back to the monastery road on level 10 and there is a group that is just too much bullshit. It has 2 sorcerers and a few bandits, but usually some crimson plants join the battle too because everything has bullshit aggro.

Level 6 chameleon does NOTHING. Hell, all of my spells do fucking nothing and have about 10% chance of working at all. Even with chameleon they spot me from so fucking far away that they aren't even visible yet on my radar. Going around them is completely impossible. They join every battle against other packs even when they are so far away that they are barely visible.

The degree of simple numerical disadvantage in the game is a joke. Their casters have 90 health, mine have 30-40. Same level. Impossible to burst them down. They cast two fireballs in the first round, 3 people in my party is dead. Meanwhile they have so much health that the player damage spells aren't even worth casting ever. Everything has 3-4 times my health. They are allowed to burst my casters down with damage spells, I can't do shit to kill them quickly.

Their melee hits me for 10-15 damage twice a round. My fighter does about the same, my two rogues do like 1-5 damage. 10 very rarely. But usually no damage or 1. Same for the gadgeteer, I put points into his modern weapons every level up and he doesn't fucking do any damage. Never more than 1-3. The rest of the party literally never does more than 0-1 damage with their slings.
Every fucking enemy is like a tank with massive health, resistances and armor and takes ages to whittle down their health. Meanwhile they can kill everyone but my fighter and valkyrie in 2-3 hits. And this is with all of the buffs I could get. Bless, Missile Shield, Enchanted Blade is always up. I put all of my points into str, dex and weapon skills on my rogue and he does 5 damage backstabs on a good day, often 0.

>>4123385
I remember buddies online liking the PS2 title.

>>4122615
>Do I need to grind my realm skills heavily to make spells work better?
It sort of helps but mostly in making sure you can cast them at the highest power, which is still mostly gated by your actual caster level.

>>4123436
Gadgeeter's a late bloomer. The Omnigun is meh and he mostly exists to build Triple Crossbows (best Ranged weapon in the game) for anyone who can use it in the party and spam the good Engineering items which are fairly mid-late game.

So Wizardry 8 has level scaling mobs but Arnika Road has some seriously steep level scaling spikes compared to others, so either you should intentionally not "spend" your levels and keep it around e.g level 6 if you still want to explore there or come back much later.

Be sure to grab all the good gear in Arnika especially Bloodlust

>>4123621
I grabbed everything in Arnika and went back for the demon slaying weapons to the Monastery. Now I'm stuck with a group of doom. It's literally impossible to get past them. Can't sneak past, and their 2 casters open with 2 fireballs every single time, which is 38-40 damage and kills half of my party no matter what. I even tried lowering the difficulty to novice and it did literally nothing, still same damage.

I understand that gadgeteer is a late bloomer, but when I put 3 skill points into his weapon on every level up I expect him to do more than 1-3 damage, the balance is just completely broken in this game.

>>4123658
The Demon Slaying weapon kinda blow by the time you actually meet Demons anyway, shoulda gone north towards the Umpani Camp.

Skill points in Weaponskills raises Accuracy and for melee weapons, the number of Swings. Modern Weapons don't get bonus from Strength, so Omnigun damage is always gonna be kind of shit (it's more of a Status Ammo deliverer) and the weapon class in general is considered pretty bad outside of maybe rushing the Blunderbuss since it's sold in a shop.

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How are the NES/Famicom versions of the first three games? I've seen the first two for pretty cheap at retro shops, and dungeon crawling on the NES sounds cozy.

>>4123913
there's a serious bug with the armor class in the NES version of 1, i don't remember the specifics

has the best music out of any version though

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>>4123385
I only played Gaiden 1 but it was fine.
I remember reading that the Gaiden titles had been republished as cellphone games without the Wizardry branding.

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>>4124000
>but it was fine
No, it wasn't. Those fuckers are almost invincible with their AC and spell resistance. They can attack back row characters and literally paralyze every attack. It more than one appears then it's game over for the party no matter what your levels are.

>>4124007
That's the point where you're supposed to run.

>>4122751
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpCUhvDdGrI

>>4123916
First I've heard of this, do you remember how serious? As in game-breaking or just wrong armor value?

>>4123913
Don't play the Nintendo of America re-imports, they just add censorship. The Japanese versions come with an English option.

>>4124040
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aul-1AJ1cD0
strongly recommend this and other videos of this dude

>>4124040
>>4124365

holy shit

>>4124115
>Some would think there are no major bugs in Wizardry 1 but after playing a while would see that the monsters melee hit chances remain the same for all displayed AC values.
that must be it

>>4123658
The monastery crypt is meant to be very difficult when you're fresh out of Arnika. Bear in mind Wiz8 has many sudden difficulty spikes spread throughout the game (boss encounters, special areas like the crypt) - change up your strategy and tactics and you'll be fine.

Here's a tip on how to win that fight if you're underleveled:
1] use spells that protect you from magic/debuffs; one can be cast outside of combat, the other during (you initiative on your buffer); this will make the enemy casters a non-issue.
2] take the first move on the flying skulls - before the fight starts, click move and move right in their face; your melee/magic guys should kill it in one round even at low level, it barely has any HP

Gadgeteer is one of the strongest classes, I always have one in my party even if playing with challenge mods. His gun absolute shit for damage early but become incredible late. Think of his gun as a back-up when you run out of stamina. USE his gadgets all the time when you have stamina, they're his main "weapon". Gadgets are free spells p. much, and stamina is replenished through a very cheap spell.

>>4126593
The monastery crypt was a cakewalk, the skulls dropped easily. Their crowd control spells mean nothing when they don't have the damage output to kill anyone.
My problem is with a bunch of cultist sorcerers on the road that literally kill half of my party in a single round with fireball spam and have WAY too much health to kill quickly.

Here's a tip I learned from experience for Wizardry 1 (I assume up to 5): DO NOT HEAL IMMEDIATELY AFTER FALLING INTO A PIT!!! After you heal, the game will count that as your "turn" and then you will proceed to automatically "fall" into the pit again. Walk out first before healing.

I've been making progress and getting better gear by combing the lower floors (levels 6 and 7). I really wish I could find some gear for my mage, since her AC is still at 9, which combined with her low health (34), makes for a very vulnerable party member especially against magic users. But then again I guess AC doesn't help against magic users.

All of my party is level 11, but it is taking forever to get the experience to go up a level. I keep on thinking in the back of my head whether or not it's worth risking class upgrades, but I am going to stick with my team of two fighters, a samurai, a thief, a mage, and a priest for now.

What is a good level for tackling Werdna and floor 10?

>>4127020
You have to grind Murphy's Ghost more. You should already be able to kill him in one combat round so you can kill more than 10 ghosts per minute. A few hundred killed Murphys and everyone is level 13+ which is all you need.
There is no reason to enter floor 5-8. The best equipment can only be found in the last two floors.

>>4127020
>head whether or not it's worth risking class upgrades
Changing a class cripples a character. It takes forever to get them going so unless you really wish you had another healer, forget it.
You definitely want level 13 for Werdna so you can cast Mahaman. 14 may be even better so you can follow up with more level 7 spells.
Malor is a game-changer.

>>4127056
>There is no reason to enter floor 5-8.
To prove yourself. Having a high level is useless if you can't handle the power.

>>4126912
That's one's easy too if you change up your tactics.

1) They usually come with Modai. Lure Modai away from casters - they can't do anything out of range and move slower.
2) Once Modai are dead, run up to them from out of range and kill them, they should melt to melee attacks. Running up to them can take two-three turns. If they one-shot/mass-insanity/fear your party during these two-three turns, it probably means you're not casting magic screen and elemental shield/soul shield. You should have all three at this point.

>>4127190
>You should have all three at this point.
From where? Spellbooks are expensive as fuck and you only get 1 spell per level. I've literally just cleared the monastery, went to Arnika and then back to the road. I used my spells in every battle to train them.
I picked up some buffs like Missile shield, bless and enchanted armor but you can't have everything this early in the game.

There aren't any modai, just 2 casters, 5-6 bandits and a couple of crimson plants. The rest of the enemies don't even matter since I just die the first round the casters get into range. Two fireballs, 18-20 damage each. Kills 3 party members every time.

I have that mod that was recommended earlier in the thread which includes faster combat and slightly buffed damage spells, which is probably one of the reasons. Didn't know better.

>>4127174
Ha, while that has a nice ring to it (they are the "proving grounds of the mad overlord" after all!), I was cleaning out those floors in order to get those encounters with 1900 or more EXP per pop in order to level up faster, because grinding 100s of Murphy's Ghosts as >>4127056 did not appeal to me as much. Half this game sometimes felt like grinding Murphy ghosts; it was driving me nuts. About the only thing that really worries me at the moment are life-stealers or level-drainers. Most of the time, if I am not surprised by a ninja, I can cast the Silence and Hold spells (Montino and Manifo respectively) in order to stop enemies dead in their tracks and kill them in a few rounds. Even ninjas, at least on these floors, are slightly less threatening than when I first encountered LVL3 Ninjas that decapitated my party members.

But I will start scouting out floors 8 and 9 more thoroughly in order to get some better gear and prepare myself for the last floor. The fact that you only have a max of 9 of spells makes it a scary thought of having to punch your way through the final floor and get to the last boss with enough health and supplies to spare.

>>4127172
all right, that's the end of class changing. Not until Wizardry 2 - and then that's only a maybe.

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u jelly?

>>4127242
>The fact that you only have a max of 9 of spells makes it a scary thought of having to punch your way through the final floor and get to the last boss with enough health and supplies to spare.
That's what dungeon crawling is about. You need to ration your resources so you still have enough to return home.
I once had to flee from Werdna's doorstep via LOKTOFEIT because I realized I fucked up and found no other way out.

>>4127262
Why would you play humans? They are simply worse than the other races. Even with those 60 bonus points you can't even max everything.

>>4127262
I can use ArtMoney too.

>>4127268
I don't know what that is.
What this is, on the other hand, is pure skill.

>>4127273
the skill might be fortitude to reroll that many times until you got that number.

I thought bonus points only went up to 20 - or I never saw them go higher.

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>>4127267
The Japanese Wizardry games have race basics +10 as stat caps rather than 18.
Lizardmen are the best race.

>>4127274
That's correct. Around 4 hours straight of rerolling until I got the incredibly rare max bonus. I've also gotten rolls of 36, 40, and 50-something. Gotta start off with a Lord too.

>>4127276
Even then humans are crap.
My party had three dwarves, a gnome, an elf and a hobbit.

>>4127219
Crimson Plants, Sorcererers and Bandits don't travel together unless they coincidentally spawn in the same place - they should split at some point. You got unlucky with 3 different groups travelling together but they will get "unstuck" or some point - or you can just avoid them if they're too hard.

When/if they do separate, if it's just Sorcerers (personally I never encountered them alone, they usually come with Modai when you're around level 10), you can lure them somewhere where you can start the combat before they're in sight from around the corner (there are a few houses on Arnika road that suit this), move right in their face and kill them before they get a chance to cast anything.

Alternatively, avoid casters until you get elemental/soul shields and magic screen (they are a priority in level up spell choice), or lower the difficulty. Arnika Road is a notorious difficulty spike, game will get easier if you manage to survive it.