Thief Gold vs. Thief 2

The first Thief is creepy as shit.

>>4107686
1 has greater variety and is overall more consistent in quality I think. Plus i like the supernatural stuff in 1 a lot more than the mechanists

2 is king for usermade missions tho

>>4107730
>mfw Return to the Cathederal

>>4107764
Does the first game really have more consistent mission quality if the last 3 are noticeably less stealth oriented than the others?

robots from thief 2 were a mistake

Thief Gold is better.
Thief 2 is still good.

>>4107686
Gold, just because Metal Age has "Trace the Courier" and "Masks", both of which rehash already existing maps.

>>4109163
Masks is the good one, though. Its Casing The Joint thats awful.

>>4109186
Yeah, I was wondering whether or not to say "Casing the Joint", but then my post would have to be longer because I'd have to explain why I think so, seeing how "Casing the Joint" comes before "Masks", but I do agree with you, if you're thinking what I'm thinking - that it's shit because you need to ghost it, there is no freedom of approach like in Masks.

>>4109186

masks is the better one, but it's still a pretty bland and uninspired mission

>>4109246
>but it's still a pretty bland and uninspired mission

I disagree whole heartedly. It's easily be one of the best missions in the game, ruined only by the fact that Casing The Joint exists.

>>4109191
I think people would understand you if you said Masks. To be fair though Casing the Joint can be completed in 5 minutes. Find 6 secret passageways, find the secret passage, find the mask rooms and then find the main exhibition room. Not too long. However the Courier mission is bollocks.

>>4108089
>Kill all the Haunts in Return to the Cathedral on expert mode
What were they thinking.

>>4109261
I agree on the Courier mission, but Casing was bad too, doesn't matter that it can be completed quickly.
Those two missions are a black spot on the masterpiece that is Thief II: The Metal Age. I can't even image how good Thief II Gold would have been if it only had been released, I grief for it every day.

>>4109261
If you said casing the joint*

>>4109260
I agree with you.
For me, each mission in Thief 2 is either high tier or god tier, except "Trace the Courier", "Kidnap" and "Casing the Joint".

>>4109264
I think about it too sometimes. I'm just grateful Thief 2 managed to release. But just think about if they had expanded on the Mechanists and Karros back story.. God damn.

>playing Kidnap
>wait for the general to reach area 7 on the rooftop
>when he finally arrives I put on invisibility potion and jump from the rooftops like Tarzan and knock out one of his guards
>Suddenly see 10 guards all positioned there scouting out for the Thief in their looking animation as they all bump into me
>the general gets scared and runs away as I chase after him right directly behind his tail
>both of us run around a corner out of all of the guards sights exactly before the potion wears off
I don't like the kidnapping mission but moments like this make me really appreciate the series.

>>4109263
You can still kill them without anyone noticing.

>>4109297
That's true but it was a bad part of the level IMO. It's a stealth game yet they force you to kill people to continue the level.

>>4109263
This objective was pretty questionable since its possible for the player to run out of ammo.

1 has more interesting and memorable levels.
2 is a better stealth game.

TDP > Gold > 2 > 3 > 4

>>4109338
You don't need ammo to kill Haunts. Shooting them is stupid anway. Backstab them with the sword and you're fine.

>>4109649
This.

TDP is a thief experience that is very akin to a solo DnD experience. Great variety, atmosphere and spooks to be had.

Gold is just TDP plus some rather baffling missions and fuckups in the original mission designs.

2 is vastly more casual, with more health, easier objectives, way more default equipment, loot and items to buy.

>>4109636
2 is arguably a worse stealth game because it has less opponents that you are better off stealthing by.

The undead levels really made you sneak past enemies because you either had no ammo to defeat them, or because you'd want to keep ammo for desperate situations.

The only time you're forced to be really stealthy in Thief 2 is with cameras, and Bots if you've wasted all your water arrows (which is quite a feat if you do), and all your explosives. Otherwise each guard is up for blackjacking.

>>4109756
Having more choices doesn't equate being made more accessible. Most players aren't going to use the potions effectively on their first playthrough of 2, just like they wouldn't have used noisemaker or broadhead arrows effectively going through the first game.

>>4107686
What a coincidence. I was just thinking about getting into Thief. Always been into stealth games, and this seems like one of the best. My only problem is I don't know where to get it/what to play it on.
Whats the best way to play the games on a modern system

>>4110203
Someone found an old copy of the Thief source code, so there are modern patches to update the engine and make it work fine on most computers. Look up "NewDark".

>>4107686
Honestly the original not-Gold Thief is still the best one for my money. Yeah, dated as hell graphics and the last few missions are a disappointment, but there's a lot about 2 I didn't like; besides gameplay stuff already mentioned I actually don't even like the lore, the Machinists are just not enjoyable, and on top of that they feel like an excuse to introduce a bunch of high-tech shit into the gameplay and for my money none of that new shit was enjoyable.

>>4110203
You could also check out The Dark Mod, nothing from the original but some good fan stuff in a more or less recreation of the gameplay within the Doom 3 engine.

>>4109765
Interesting, considering I found most of the undead levels barely even needed me to stealth at all, because most of the enemies used in them are really slow.

>>4110545
Yes, stealth takes a backseat in levels like Bonehoard and Haunted Cathedral because the enemy design isn't conducive to stealth.

>>4107686
1 is arguably better than Gold or 2.

>>4110398
This looks interesting. Is it only for Thief 2, or does it work with 1 as well?

>>4110835
It works for both. Get TFix for Thief Gold and Tafferpatcher for Thief 2. I recommend you disable the mods that come bundled with them.

>>4110545
>>4110585

Traversing either the Bonehoard or the Streets of the Cathedral while potentially having a ton of zombies following you around is way more frantic than just sneaking by them.

If you decided to just run past everything and have everyone on high alert, that's your fault. Every thief game can be played like that if you want to. Human guards are such pussies that running past them is no more difficult than that.
And if you're playing on normal you can just blackjack and kill everyone.

The undead levels don't really allow for that. And if you've got the entire place alerted, chances are you'll have the haunts alerted, whom you can't so easily run away from. So what's the best route? Stealth. You can keep all your resources for emergencies, no one is alerted, and you can loot the place unmolested.

>>4109825

I was not talking about accessibility. I was talking about the sheer quantity of resources available to the player in 2.

In TDP your starting gear might look like this: 1 Health Potion, 3 Rope Arrows, 15 Broadheads, 4 Water Arrows, 2 Moss Arrows, 1 Fire Arrow.

for some generic level. That means you would have to shop for whatever playstyle you're going for: More health potions for aggressive/risky playstyles, more arrows if you just want to shoot people, more water arrows and moss arrows for hard stealth, fire arrows for resilient enemies andsoforth.

In Thief 2 your basic starting equipment looks more like this: 2 Health Potions, Speed Potion, 15 Flares, 2 Flash Bombs, Scouting Orb, 40 Broadheads, 20 Water Arrows, 10 Moss Arrows, 3 Fire Arrows...

You start out with quite luxurious equipment, and if not, the level will provide it. I don't remember ever running out of Water arrows during the Markhams Isle/Karath Din levels. In fact I distinctly remember having around 50-60 of them because you just won't run out of them.

You don't have to commit yourself as much to your equipment in 2, because you get way more in quantity of it. Even in my very first playthrough of Thief, I would carefully read what each piece of equipment does, and I would use it. I remember using Noise Arrows in Cragscleft because I didn't have the Water and Moss Arrows to spare while sneaking past the metal grating area. By Thief 2 equipment standards I would have just blasted out all the torches and covered everything in moss.

>>4110917
Cool. Thanks, Anon

>>4110940
Doug Church said it best when he said the most satisfying moment of stealth gameplay is the cooldown, when guards or servants defuse the situation. None of the supernatural enemies have those cooldown phrases nor does their body language change in any discernible way.

>>4112834
That's bullshit.

The Zombies have readily discernable cooldown phases, their muttering dies down a bit, they walk slower and their body animations are less tense.
The Haunts will make a passing wisp with their voice. The Apparitions will do that as well.

Also, I disagree with cooldown being the most satisfying gameplay element. There's too many to choose from: Setting up your equipment, using it cleverly, stealing a whole bunch of shit, finding a secret, sneaking past enemies without alerting them...

>>4110940
>And if you're playing on normal you can just blackjack and kill everyone.

If you're playing on normal, then you're doing it wrong, plain and simple.

>>4110940
>while potentially having a ton of zombies following you around is way more frantic than just sneaking by them.
>If you decided to just run past everything and have everyone on high alert, that's your fault.
>that's your fault.

This implies it made those levels harder. It didn't. I actually found them far easier to get away with letting them roam, than any of the human levels.

>The undead levels don't really allow for that. And if you've got the entire place alerted, chances are you'll have the haunts alerted, whom you can't so easily run away from.

The haunts were more like Human enemies with better AI, than true undead enemies, IMO. I wish the game used them more instead of boredom tier zombies and burricks.

>>4113268
Then you've had a very unique and jaded experience. Which is more your fault than the game's.

Most people who played those levels the first few times didn't know the way and used stealth because it is better than frantically running everywhere trying to find the objectives.

> The haunts were more like human enemies with better AI

They were just faster and more alert. Kind of like the assassins. Honestly, if you need more "Bob the human guard" in your life you must be bored out of your skull.

T:DP is a fun solo DnD rogue campaign, with stealing from the undead, eldritch gods, and outwitting the supernatural. If what you find more exciting is generic human guards, then more power to you. But, it seems, mostly only to you.

>>4113254
That difficulty setting is there on purpose though. Everyone has to begin somewhere, not everyone does on Expert. My point still stands.

>>4112834
Zombies have phases though just like the skeletons.

>>4113763
>But, it seems, mostly only to you.
Don't be such a salty faggot. I'm not him but I *am* another guy who vastly preferred the plain burglary missions and never really liked the turn into supernatural/high fantasy stuff.

>>4114512
dark fantasy*

>>4114512

shit taste

>>4114751
People like different stuff. I am another fag, have played first 3 games plus many Dark Mod missions, and prefer the ones centred around human environments. Undead has a place in Thief, in small churches and crypts, but I don't get excited about huge catacombs and ruins. Human guards have more personality, the letters and Easter eggs enrich the levels.

If you love graves and shit then good for you, all that matters is people enjoy the games.

TDP/TMA gameplay in modern engine when?

>>4107686
Why not Thief 1?

>>4112968
None of those deal with the actual tension of a character searching for you.

Always bothered me how Garrett prepares a fuckton of water arrows for the missions where you probably won't need that many, but takes only a few of them on missions swarmed by zombies (and shop does not offer much more). Leaving stunned zombies behind is unnerving, especially when you might have to return to some areas and it's pretty hard to predict their wake-up radius.

>>4117415
In what way do they not, sirrah? They have search animations and voice clips that make for a much more tense evasion segment than human guards. Human guards are by their very nature less frightening. Hiding from an undead abomination on the other hand is by the premise alone more tense.

>>4114512
Talk about salty. From all the different flavours you can chose from, you prefer salt. I like plain burglary missions, but they are that, plain.

>>4115383

Undead have a prominent place in Thief. Don't forget that there's an entire city quarter swarmed by an undead apocalypse.

Zombie missions give Thief that extra character that a plain thievery game would lack. It's the extra challenge.

Also, this notion of a game having to be the most literal and uncreative manifestation of its title is like a demand to be underwhelmed.

If Tomb Raider does anything but let you raid tombs, its shit. If Thief is about ANYTHING else but robbing mundane everyday people, its shit and doesnt fit the title.

Well guess what, stealing from the undead and the supernatural made this game as great as it is. It's not just about "loving graves" as if we're some local goth rejects. It's about sneaking through a well designed catacomb, spelunking, exploring, and solving riddles. Moments like the face telling you to stay away before it blasts you with fire were great trap evasion moments. Memorable shit.

And how is reading the journals of perished adventurers who were foolish enough to sleep in the presence of the undead any LESS exciting or world building than reading about some bloke Ginny being grabbed by the Hammers?

>>4119934
I don't disagree with you at all, I guess there are aesthetic and atmospheric preferences at play. For a standalone mission I would tend to prefer more human oriented environments, yet a campaign would do well to have the natural forest pagan and supernatural crypt settings as part of the rich variety

>>4120639

It's not only the crypts and presence of undead but the overall creepy and otherworldly vibe of the original (even in more "normal" missions like baffords) that is all but lost in thief 2. It made for a far more memorable experience in my opinion.

>>4120665
They may be more memorable but those levels are still riddled with problems, I manage to fall into the stairwell crack in Return to the Cathedral nearly every time I replay the game.