Can someone explain, without buzzwords, why you guys hate DK64?

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I liked it, I think the main reason people don't like it is because of the many collectibles and how you have to backtrack with different kongs, but... I dunno, it was fine to me, no rush, just comfy.
I used to like it better than Banjo-Kazooie, now that I've finally finished BK, I may like them equally.
Also, DK64 has the only port existing of the original DK arcade game, so bonus points for that.

Every Kong practically plays the same. I only played up to DK Jr and Tiny. The game feels very boring platforming wise. The jumping is awkward (per most 3d platformers) and the gameplay is just mash B when you see an enemy. No thought process. It's a barren game in terms of gameplay. I can understand the appeal of B&K because atleast the character and settings are fun.

The multiple characters was a failed gimmick, game has too many cutscenes and cut-outs to try and hide how bad the actual platorming is funny enough the minigames are all complete ass unlike BT/BK, and the game is so fucking buggy they were really better off saving it as a GC project.
I'd still put it above other abominations like Gex and CBFD but it isn't super high on the 3D platformer list

I was under the impression that it was one of the best games on the n64 until I got the internet and found out having a lot of stuff to collect is supposedly bad and not fun.

I never played this when it was current. Having started playing it now, it's fundamentally sound but the amount of collectibles distract me from basically everything else about the game. There's so many that I feel pressured to get them, knowing that Rare likes you to get everything (Jet Force Gemini).

>>4105762
There are many collectathons on the N64 and collectathons have not aged well at all. DK64 is one of the lesser collectathons

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>>4105863
>aged

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>>4105863
>collectathons have not aged well at all.

My issue with the game is how goddamn sluggish it is. I feel like I'm playing a game that takes place underwater the entire time. Everything is just so goddamn SLOW.

I can forgive the insurmountable number of collectibles for the sake of collectibles existing.
I can look passed the flaw of the repetitive minigames.
I wouldn't mind all the backtracking.
I'm not entirely bothered by the mediocre or almost non-existent platforming at times.
But for the love of god, please run at a higher frame rate than 10FPS.

>>4105762
Having to switch 5 times to the different kong coded fruit/instrument/ground pound switches all just for one lousy banana that is also kong coded kills it form me. It doesn't feel like a challenge or puzzle, it's just a chore.

>>4105852
Others opinions shouldn't affect your opinions, grow up.

>>4105870
>>4105872
Actually an opinion popularized by Jim Sterling.

Dude, if you like it you like it, ain't gotta explain shit, tell the shitposters to fuck off.

I dislike how they recycled most boss battles, and cardboard k.rool was obviously rushed. But the final boss is fantastic.

>>4107869
People have been saying that for at least a decade, so I kind of doubt he had anything to do with it. Nuts & Bolts even mocks collectathons very openly.

>>4107889
>Nuts & Bolts even mocks collectathons very openly.
Yeah what the fuck was up with that, it really stung as a classic Rare fan.

>>4107889
>>4107869
No matter who said that, the concept of 0s and 1s aging is silly from the get go.
>but it just means that our standards became better!
I don't know, maybe in terms of performance, but in terms of design, games are either good or bad (and a lot of that is also subjective), saying games age is still silly, always will be.

>>4107878
>and cardboard k.rool was obviously rushed
Curious. In what way?

>>4107893
Collectathons aged in the sense that walking around a 3D plane ain't novel or interesting anymore, just like how shoot'em ups feel deprecated.

>>4107895
Well it is literally a texture that breaks and falls apart, I'm no 3D modeler but I feel like that should be pretty easy to draw and animate.

>>4107891
Rare are very British, and the British are very self-deprecating. Or maybe they just like to act self-deprecating to show off how clever and self-aware they think they are. In any case, I don't think that it's meant to be taken too harshly. Maybe "pokes fun at" would have been better than "mocks".
>>4107893
I know, that was my first post in the thread. I just hate it when people try to close arguments by insinuating that someone is just parroting an e-celeb.

the graphics are what turned me off from it. donkey kong country was good mainly because of the graphics and atmosphere. when you can literally see the planes and polygons on DK's face it looks stupid. even at the time I thought it looked bad.

>>4107901
>ain't a novel or interesting anymore.
Games nowadays are walking simulators with scripted gameplay. I don't consider that older games like 3D platformers "aged" (they are still the same games as they were 20 years ago). Ways of making games might have changed, but that doesn't mean it's better or worse.
The only thing that improved is technology, that means better graphics, better framerate, but gameplay and design aren't things that necessarily get better with technology. In fact, most of the times they don't. Devs put a lot of time and resource into anything other than actually design nowadays. They just follow conventional design options and go with it on automatic pilot.

>>4107996
>Games nowadays are walking simulators with scripted gameplay
But that's essentially DK64 lol

>>4105762
I hate it because it's inferior to all 3 donkey kong countrys.

I hated it because it beat my mother and raped my dog!

>>4105762
Character locked items makes revisting areas feel monotonous, because its often less "Oh, this needs a move thats learned later, better remember it" and more "Oh, this needs a character I already have but currently am not, better backtrack to the character select barrel"

Backtracking is horrendous. Tooie's was also excessive but it felt more varied and at least you can get collectibles found on the way as anyone.

Is backtracking considered a buzzword? If so, allow me to phrase it like this- Dunkey's recent video hit the nail on the head when it comes to this. "Immediacy... variety, replayability; this is what I value in a game. ...if there's constant downtime, the game is not fun." The fact you have to go through so many sections over and over again with the same 5 characters is a prime example of that. It could have been better if the Kongs each controlled a bit differently, but they move at almost the same speed, almost the same jump height, almost the same overall controls. Couple that with the most monotonous form of collecting that fantastic atmosphere (if that is a buzzword fantastic worldbuilding with the combination of graphics artstyle and OST) cannot save, and you've made a mistake.
At least with Banjo Tooie, whether you played as Banjo, Banjo or Kazooie solo, Mumbo, or the Wumba transformations you could still collect Globos, Jiggies, notes, etc, and each one of them controlled differently than the last, and they were mostly used to reach places and access things the others cannot. With DK, the only thing stopping Lanky from collecting Diddy's golden bananas (aside from the fact the program won't let you) are usually switches with the Kong's faces, the weapon switches, or music instrument pads. You can look at power ups and transformations as a form of progression unlocks, but it would be very difficult not to see almost every power up in DK 64 as such.

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I like the game but it does feel slower than BK/BT because having 5 kongs means all the abilities are spread out and having to switch all the time is annoying.

Boss fights are fun though.


>>4107905
No King Kut out is modeled. It isnt just a texture, not even a flat polygon

Those edges are the sides(3D)

>>4105762
>Implying all of /vr/ is one person

a 3DS version where you can swap Kongs in the touch screen would be neat

I hate the game solely because I was stuck on King Cut Out for years and when I finally got around to figuring out the timing and beat, my file got corrupted the next day trying to load it. I even stubbornly started a new game, only being unable to store the save file. So I'm mad I got cucked out of the ending because of a dead cart.

>>4105762
idk, people just jumping on the bandwagon I guess. It's a really good game.

BT > DK64 > BK

>>4105762
I don't hate it, it's just when I was a kid I couldn't see how bad it is

I only played it when it came to VC, and for the most part I liked it, but I just couldn't bring myself to finish it, having to backtrack to places I'd been already with a different Kong just to pick up collectibles was really infuriating.

There was no reason to make power ups color-coded so that only specific Kongs could pick them up. I having golden banana puzzles that only certain Kongs could solve but the smaller incidental stuff like coins and bananas were overkill

I hate all of Rare's 3D games, including Banjoo. Nintendo's abrupt and complete witch from 2D to 3D graphics is the most tragic even in video gaming history for me. A part of me died that gen. I could never look at big N the same way I used to. There could have been a whole generation of innovative and extremely beautiful sprite based 2 and 2.5D Nintendo games but instead we got ugly as shit, low frame rate, 3D garbage and the end of 3rd party support.

I just wanted one more generation of high quality sprite based games.

>>4112316
>I hate all of Rare's 3D games
Blast Corps and JFG are ludo.

>>4112316
The N64 really wasn't very well suited for 2d sprite based games at all. Recall Mischief Makers, which pushed the cart's memory even with reusing the same texture as just about any block and transition screens being just character sprites.

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>>4112572
Did Mischief Makers really push the cart's memory? I know the game was being developed before the N64 launched, it started development around 1995 so the N64 was still largely unknown territory for devs, but I never got the impression that game pushed the limits, it has some big sprites and runs at 60fps though, so maybe it does.

Actually the N64 can do some really nice 2D, but most publishers just weren't interested, probably saw it as a missed opportunity since 3D gaming was the new thing at the moment, and people saw 2D as old and undesirable, when you read magazine reviews from back then, reviewers would just put a few points down on the score, just because the game was 2D.

I don't really mind the backtracking and switching kongs for whatever reason. My biggest gripe is that by the end of the game every banana is in a bonus barrel, and they get repetitive quick. Instead of relying on your abilities and skills to get bananas, you have to put up with bullshit minigames.
fuck you beaver bother

>>4105870
>>4105872

game mechanics can be improved over the years, so the original mechanisms become obsolete, that the "aged" term comes from. You can like it or you cant but is true, you fags

>>4112586
Collecthaton is a design choice, not a mechanic.
And Super Mario 64 is still regarded as one of the 3D games with the best controls/mechanics, even today.

Games don't age anon.

I recently played it to show my nephews and nieces and I mostly enjoyed it. My biggest disappointments were some of the world designs and half of the mini games.

>>4112575
>Did Mischief Makers really push the cart's memory?
Not at all. Anon is drunk or stupid or both.

I didn't hate it. It did what it set out to do. My one, ONE gripe is and always will be having to get the two arcade tokens before you can actually beat the game. It annoyed me to no end mostly because I had no fucking idea how to find one of them. I got the one from playing rocket jump, but I never knew you also got one from playing the DK arcade game. So like a dumbass, I was hopelessly searching everywhere in every world, every corner, thinking it was hidden somewhere. From the bottom of the gulch all the way to the heights of the castle level. Then I thought you had to get all the maps. Boy was I wrong.