System Shock

Well it's not like there could have been a standard until someone came up with one, with the advent of FPSs with verticality nobody knew what to do with all these new dimensions in terms of control.

I did play SS1 a few years back and never tried the mouselook hack because I thought it'd be too pleb, but holy shit the controls were hardcore, about half the letters and numbers on the keyboard were dedicated to movement, looking around and even leaning, though after an hour or so they had become 2nd nature.

>>4104371
how did they do it back in the day?
people had to have customized their control set ups no one could have found this key layout to be ideal could they? S to go forward? X for back? What the fuck.

>>4104372
Because in a parallel universe szxc would have become the fps standard and you'd look back on an old game and say "wasd to move? What the fuck? my pinky barely reaches the ctrl key like this, there's no way people thought this made sense."

You should try nethack, that game had a separate key for every single possible action, and I mean one key for opening doors and one for closing them.

>>4104349
You have to have invented a better more usable controller (most 6th gen systems had this style) OR invent a better more usable scheme for current controllers AND it has to be used in a popular game.

twinstick aiming/moving for FPS had a few examples before HaloCE , but HaloCE literally made the scheme popular and widespread and controlled so well every other FPS after followed. Even though games like Alien resurrection or Timesplitters tried it nearly a year before HaloCE.

It is called standing on the shoulders of giants or discovering truth by building on previous discoveries.

For PC it was the same deal. First we had to discover customizing your controls is imperative to pc gaming. Second we had to generalize all games of similar genres to similar layouts. None of that FPS shit where some games are WASD while others are ASDF or QWER and others are forced half mouse move with half arrow aiming with a button for mouse aiming (pisses me off thinking about those days).

>>4104349
Warren Spector actually mentioned this in an interview (CDC conference of some sort, can't recall). Yeah, even he looks back and finds it bizarre and wonders what the actual fuck they were thinking. Different times, emerging technologies and design philosophies, and the bizarre idea that using the ENTIRE keyboard for a game that plays in real-time is a good thing rather than an unwieldy clusterfuck. Fortunately, there's some small joy to be had in untangling clusterfucks.

>>4104382
>wasd
>my pinky barely reaches the ctrl key like this

the fuck

>>4104382
What kind of tiny baby hands do you have, dude?

My pinky naturally rests on ctrl with WASD.

>>4104372
They had to account for two forward speeds.
UW was ahead of its time in using the right left hand side of the keyboard for most commands so that your right hand could control the mouse.
The main plunder was J for jump.

Q is for turning left.
W is for moving forwards.
E is for turning right.
A is for strafing to the left.
S is for moving backwards.
D is for strafing to the right.
Z is for cocking the head 90 degrees to the left.
X is for cocking the head 90 degrees to the right.

All 2.5D shooters should use this.

I wonder why many people claim Quake 1 was the first true 3d FPS when this game already game out 2 years prior with at least the Cyberspace areas are in full 3D, as well as the cut-scenes in even the Floppy disk versions?

>>4105027
Because system shock's 1 control scheme made the game only playable and beatable to the most hardcore and dedicated enthusiasts

And the horde of low skilled self proclaimed "gamers" are those who decided what history was.

>>4105027
Don't know if it's considered an FPS, but isn't Ultima Underworld true 3D? That came out even before SS1.

>>4104349
I used to be a big fan of the arrow keys and thought it was pretty weird the first time I encountered WASD. I would rebind to the arrow keys for the first while but eventually had to concede that I got better access to the rest of the keyboard if my left hand was on the left side of it.

>>4105004
Q left roll
E right roll
W forward
S backward
A turn left
D turn right
I up
K down
J left
L Right

>>4104349
Thanks, OP. I need to get back to this. I cleared the first area a while ago using a severely gimped strategy and I really just need to learn the entire set of controls. I found it easier to be in crouch the whole time so enemies would typically be in the center of the screen and I played it like a cover shooter using the lean controls to pop around walls and hide after a few shots instead of strafing around targets.

Thanks to this game, I'm still using the szxc keys for movement. Never went back.

Incredible game, but i didn't need the hangover, lol.

I always forget how damn good the OST is for SS1. Makes me wanna replay it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOkOCAm-v0U

>>4104349
System Shock's controls aren't really bad they're just different. After getting used to them I can't really think of a more efficient way to play it.

>>4107291
This. I was really skeptical of them when I first played it but the degree of control you have once you get used to it is truly amazing.

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Hmmm... I do wonder this: Starcraft made it to the N64 after the original PC version came out, and that version is considered decent. Same for Quake one getting a couple of console ports. Yet SS1 never got any conversion to the PS1, Sega CD(with 6 button MD controller in mind), 3DO, N64, nor the Sega Saturn. The sequel did get a canceled Dreamcast port, though.
>TFW you know that you will never know for sure what a Sega CD, N64, nor Sega Saturn SS1 would play like.

>>4107473
How is it possibly supposed to run on a Mega CD with a 12.5MHz 68000?

>>4107473
Yet Ultima Underworld somehow got ported to the Playstation.

>>4107473
People have a hard enough time playing System Shock with a mouse and keyboard could you imagine the nightmare it would be on a controller?

>>4105027

You think System Shock is an FPS?

>>4107478

He meant Sega CD/32X.

>>4107485
well it's in first person you shoot guns so yes it's an FPS

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>>4107502

Ocarina of time is an FPS

>>4107502

If it was in third-person, would you still consider it a "shooter"? If not, being in first person doesn't make it a first-person shooter.

>>4105027
Pretty sure when people refer to something as a "true 3d" game they mean the entire game is in 3D rather than just tiny portions.

>>4107506
This logic elects presidents.

>>4107486
>>4107482

I didn't mean that until some anon pointed out that 12.5 MHz aren't enough. There is also the Jaguar CD, which had at least some more RAM and at least slightly more sound capabilities than either the standalone Genesis, 32X, or Sega CD. There is also the Saturn, with its custom Yamaha chip for sound. i'm just saying you don't need a complete PC keyboard to have a decent-good port of a computer game to a home console. Starcraft 64 may not have the same color use as the original PC version, but its by no means an abysmal , bad, or mediocre port.

>>4105876
I'm pretty sure a lot of people (including myself) play System Shock this way, especially when even early enemies like Cyborg Warriors and Hoppers can quickly end you with just a few shots.

>>4107509
You would still be aiming and shooting your gun at targets, only with the camera pulled back behind the Hacker's body, so yes it's still a shooter.

>>4107512
And the Prime Ministers of certain countries as well

>>4107506
HAHAHA NO.

>>4104382
>>4104631
>pinky
>not ring
handlets

>>4107741

A shooter isn't just any game that features a projectile weapon. If genres were defined like that, almost every game would either be a shooter, a hack n slash, or a beat em up.

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>>4108129
Ring finger is needed to press A, my freakish friend.

BUMP FOR LIFE

Werent they gonna release the source for system shock?
Maybe then they can finally add stuff like a proper control setup.

qwerv is superior. no reason why you should have to move a finger off of a key and onto a key to move backwards.

And I say this having only used wasd. I just can't bother changing my ways.

>>4109082
Well, okay then.

>>4109072
Maybe when the remake comes out so that someone else can add an actual invert mouselook. Funny that it was a kickstarter stretch goal at first.

>>4104439
you've never heard of the emacs pinky?

>>4109997
>using your pinky with emacs
full retard

you're supposed to remap control to alt and alt to capslock

>>4110024
REAL TALK

You know, I wonder when the 3rd system Shock game will be released? late 2018? Early-mid 2019, or 2020?

>>4111327
They still have to get Underworld Ascendant released so who knows at this point.

>>4104349
WASD is more efficient and easy to use if you use keyboard + mouse.

Otherwise people have just become so used to WASD that they react ballistically and like children if any game dares to do something different. Gothic 1 and 2 both use keyboard only controls, and while you CAN use WASD and mouse you will fare much worse.

While maximizing optimal keyboard control is a good thing, using WASD as default only because its expected is stupid.

>>4111346
Oh, alright then.

I would like to confess that back in the day you played wolf3d/sod/doom with a mouse by moving it forward to move forward.

When you ran out of mouse pad (remember mice were way less sensitive than now) you picked it up and dropped it back on your mousepad more near the bottom/center.

The other options were ctrl/alt/space and arrow keys (or numpad arrow keys) for movement.

Honestly it feels like we were the monkeys at the start of 2001.

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>>4112158
but anon, at the beginning of 2001 we were monkeys. Well, technically primates

How do you beat the final boss? Shodans face appears too quickly.

>>4112158
>you played
No, I didn't. I never have. I played Doom/Wolf/Duke with arrows and ctrl-alt-space. Just the thought of playing some sickly interim of movement+mlook makes my stomach hollow.

>>4114585
Nevermind I just beat him. In the EE edition you get v8 pulsar immediately.

>>4114616

Normally I'd complain about them making the game easier, but the final boss in SS1 is so shit that anything to make it less of a pain is fine by me.

>>4115283
>Hard=shitty

I played so much ultima underworld at one point when I tried to play CSGO with my friends I was pressing X to step backwards lol. Because S is walk forwards and W is run

>>4116429

SHODAN isn't hard at all. It's a dumb boss fight.

After all the shit you've gone through, your showdown with SHODAN herself consists of your viewscreen being thrown around like you're having a seizure while her only "attack" is an invisible timer that starts once you enter her arena that will kill you once it hits zero. The only thing you do is hit a static triangle thing fast enough enough before the auto-kill gets you. I admit the SHODAN face bleeding into the screen is cool, but the boss is still terrible and stupid.

>>4114615
You never played it back in the day we get it

>>4104349
My Dad still plays Half Life 2 by moving forward by holding right click

>>4116782
Oh okay then.