Is planescape torment really the masterpiece everyone says it is?

Not with that gameplay it isn't.

>>4083787
>planescape has bad gameplay meme

Planescape is just infinity engine and plays like the other D&D infinity engine games. Just because combat is the worst part of the game doesn't mean that it's awful or anything.

>>4083798
Everyone shits on this game, but when it came out I played it so much my dad would teese me with "Where are you going? going to update your journal?" I think he thought that was a funny euphemism for jerking off

>>4083690

The writing is great.

The gameplay was barely above average even back in its day....and it aged like milk.

For better or for worse, the combat is broken in your favor, so you can cheese your way through the encounters to get on with the story (and for all the game's faults, it IS a good story).

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>usually ranked among the best rpg games ever
>/vr/ somehow find a way to shit on it
Oh the contrarian hipsters...

overly wordy, poorly presented, and awful game play waste your time.

it's an awful goon rpg for idiots on codex to fellate themselves over and something awful retards to jerk off to.

>>4083863
"oh did you like that book?"
"No it was a bit wordy"
If you don't have text all you are left with is large amounts of shitty voice acting or small amounts of mediocre voice acting

>>4083690
if you want a game it's shit.

If you want a VN you might as well read something good instead, like YU-NO.

>>4083690
It's a good game tho.

>>4083883
we're talking video games here, just because real books are too intimidating for you doesn't mean you need to deep throat the cock of a game which (poorly) imitates them

>>4083863
>>4083961

see >>4083857 and have a nice day PIECE OF SHIT

I wanted to like it. The story was amazing as far as I played, but I couldn't keep going. The combat is as atrocious as they say. I'd just played Icewind Dale, which probably spoiled me with its decent battles and dungeon-crawling. It's like what Black Isle really wanted to make was a point-and-click adventure, but then filled in the gaps with horrendous out-of-place combat because
>it's an rpg, you need to hit stuff and make your mans stronger, duh

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ITT

>>4083849
>>4083883
the writing is barely competent generic fantasy shit. read a real book you dorks

>>4083961
that's even worse.

>>4084573
>generic fantasy shit
there's having a difference in taste, and then there's being objectively wrong
confirmed for having not played

>>4084573
That really updated my journal.

>>4084723

I think anon was being overly harsh there with "barely competent", but it felt fairly generic to me. And I played it to the end, albeit with a little bit of save-file hackery because it's incompetently programmed and my quests became uncompletable at one point thanks to some bug or another.

I think it's a respectably good game with some terrible flaws, personally. I didn't really enjoy it though and I think it's badly overrated.

>>4083690
Yes.

Well obviously subjectively it boils down to your taste and preferences, but most people who say "it's overrated" are doing so to appear more "sophisticated" than the sheeple who enjoy things.

The purple prose game

>all these plebs on vr

Apparently anything can change the nature of a man including nothing because the nature of a man is to change in the first place.

The game actually has stupider plot devices and philosophical ramblings than even Bioshock.

It's like a thrilling murder mystery except you always find out that the murderer was you and you just forgot. You find this out by having a high wisdom stat or by reading journals that you lost.

All the most interesting scenarios are told second hand through characters that were interesting before they met you, who immediately stop being interesting once they're in the game, and all the cool shit your character did or was involved in happened before the game started.

It's like opening a book to find that inside the book was a summary of the book itself that you never actually get to read.

So there's like 50 loose threads of cool shit that could have been in the game and would have been fun to play, except what's actually in the game is garbage and all those threads aren't actually fully fleshed out.


Someone made a game that's a lot like this except it doesn't totally suck, and it's called Lost Odyssey and you should play that instead.

>>4086053
you are just stupid man. Thinking isn't for you

>>4086063
wow great argument faggotron you sure convinced me with your hot opinions

>>4086067
There's no need to convince you. "The nature of a man is to change in the first place" is a banal statement. Are you sure of this? Has your nature ever changed? Your NATURE, the nature of man. Your essence.

>>4086053
>Shits on Planescape

Well, I guess you're entitled to your opinion...

>recommends Lost Odyssey instead

I...wha....uh...er...

...the fuck?

Yeah, now you lost me.

>>4084723
the writing is extremely generic, and if you'd ever read a real book you'd know that

I have never played an RPG with a world setting as intriguing as PS:T.

Unfortunately I was enjoying myself and started getting scared of the ride coming to an end, ultimately procrastinating for so long to continue it's been like four years at this point thinking I'll get right back to it.

Yes, but only if you play it a certain way.

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>>4087324
The concept of PST is more interesting than the actual execution. Like, a multiversal crossroads megacity mired in crime and corruption? Sounds great. In practice its a grimy city that mostly looks like it could be from any setting out there, but with some weird dudes walking around. The best "multiverse" stuff was all in NPC dialogue, like that chinese bodyguard who chased his princess to Sigil then ended up a zombie slave, that horse-lord in the bar who went from hot shit in his homeworld to a hick in Sigil, the guy who served in the Blood War, some of the stories in the Sensate chambers. Visually, it just wasn't there. Then again, I might be spoiled by pic related. Compounded by the terrible combat, and I'd rather just read an anthology of short stories set Sigil than keep playing.

>>4086073
>"The nature of a man is to change in the first place" is a banal statement.
that's why I used it as a criticism of the game itself you turd

the game gives you like 22 options to answer the question and all of them are correct because changing all the fucking time is what makes people people, the entire game is predicated on a non-question

>>4083690 been thinking of checking it out regardless

>>4083961
>Yu-No
Good taste because it's not a SJW vehicle.

>>4083961
>if you want a game it's shit.
what makes it any worse than the other infinity engine crpg's?

>>4087308

My favorite book is Crime and Punishment.

PS:T's writing is great.

Acquire some IQ and taste.

>>4084471
Goldilocks entered the Little Bear's house and found three game installed on their vintage PC.
>Planescape Torment has a compelling storyline but the gameplay is nonexistent.
>Icewind Dale has more exciting combat but the story is nonexistent.
>Baldur's Gate is exactly right.

>>4083690
It's not the greatest game of all time or anything, but it was definitely one of the best RPGs released during the late 90s - early 2000s on the PC. I don't understand all of the hate for the combat in this game. When I played it as a child, I had no issue with it outside of the movies that would play when casting higher level spells. It was like the devs were doing their best to turn an infinity engine game's combat into Final Fantasy. However, around 2008 - current year any place online that mentions this game has dozens of people shitting on the combat. If you want a game with actual horrible combat, try playing Ultima 7.

>>4089225
>If you want a game with actual horrible combat, try playing Ultima 7.

What? I played through Ultima 7 and the expansions and I dont-

>Suddenly all sort of horrible suppressed memories of shoddy gameplay that had been locked in a far corner of my mind for almost 20 years, burst forth!

AHHH WHY WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO ME! AUGHHH!

>>4088438

On /lit/ this post would be considered low quality bait. On this board? Uh....I guess I'd give it a 50/50 chance of being unironic.

>>4083798
All D&D infinity engine games are ass.

>>4083849
>the writing is great
t. doesn't read books

>>4083857
t. 'Harry Potter is a masterpiece'

>>4088438
wow man that's deep have you heard of this other literary masterpiece called 'Infinite Jest'? It's super obscure and hard core but maybe an intellectual like you would enjoy it.

>>4092736
how is your day going anon? why are you being such an unpleasant faggot?

I like it, it's really nice. Games arent masterpieces, tho, so I wouldnt call it like that.

>>4093306
>games arent masterpieces

what did he mean by this?

>>4089840
I liked Ultima 7 enough that I did my very best to slog through the clunky, horrible combat in order to experience the story. I grew up on the older turn based Ultima games and the switch to real time choppy, unresponsive combat with pants on head retarded NPC AI was jarring. Planescape's combat is the greatest thing in the world by comparison.

>>4083690
Depends how much you appreciate writing. PS:T has some of - if not - the best writing in video games, a very solid story, a great cast of characters, and a wonderfully immersive world.

However, the gameplay was quite mediocre for the time, but is now very poor relative to modern RPG standards. If you aren't experienced with old CRPGS you'll find it incredibly inaccessible.

If you can enjoy a game on the merits of its narrative elements, then you'll love PS:T.

Good novel, bad game.

>>4093228
Because a while back a couple of my days were shit on by trying to get through this game before I eventually realized it was a meme and uninstalled. Wasted several hours of my time and god knows how much of everybody else's collectively.

>>4093681
Video game writing is shit so being among the best isn't saying much. And the world is an ugly mudscape full of nothing of interest. Every D&D setting is just a significantly worse Jack Vance story and Planescape is no exception. There are a handful of games that are enjoyable for narrative elements but I doubt there's a single one that's carried solely by them. Even the best VNs have more engaging gameplay than Planescape. Clicking around to solve mysteries in YU-NO is infinitely more engaging than Planescape, which is really the same thing, only from a birds-eye perspective and every now and then you have to watch The Nameless One and friends flail at bad guys like retards while you do nothing interesting.

>>4094051
Bad novel, abysmal game.

it's telling that litfags are getting defensive about this game in particular

>>4094342
Booksarebetterbooksarebetter

look fellow anime forum posters, im too cultivated for this

It was written by the 90s equivalent of redditors after the ninth reading of hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy and twelfth watching of the monty python box set. Truly tasteless, embarrassing and obnoxious. I couldn't stomach it for very long.

>Haven't played PST
>See this thread
>Can't tell who's serious and who's just shitposting
>Really dampening my mood to play
My fault I guess

>>4095027
Do you want to play a CRPG or a young adult novel? If CRPG you should choose something else

>>4095032
Are you >>4094341
Because that guy is shitposting

>>4095036
not even me but
>significantly worse Jack Vance story
hits the nail on the head, it's shit.

>>4095041
How old are you anon

>>4095036
I'm >>4094341 and I'm not shitposting at all.

>>4094946
That sounds like a more accurate description of Fallout 2 but the general sentiment isn't wrong. This was a game made for nerds by nerds, and not in a good way.

>>4095056
If he's heard of Jack Vance he's likely one of the older posters here.

>>4095063
You are shitposting with that /v/ tier post, I just wanted an actual discussion on whether to play it

>>4094946
You are aware you wouldn't hold this opinion if the game wasn't depicted as "the best written RPG"?

>>4095067
Anon, just accept that people have different opinions to you. Why do you even have an opinion on a game you haven't played, were you expecting an overwhelming encouragement? Just play it and see for yourself

>>4095090
I don't have an opinion on a game I haven't played but I know shitposting when I see it

>>4095067
>>4095027
Just play it, the game is fine, one of the best cRPGs, but if you expect you'll find that deep grind and numbers which people apparently like, look elsewhere.
Also, the story and writing is fine, remember, you are not reading Dostoevsky, or even Carver here, you are playing a video game, a video game made in 1999, made by a bunch of nerds who's aspiration was to make a video game. But for a video game it really is special, and if you think otherwise, you shouldn't be on a video game board.
I would define PST as poorly written Pathologic (I'm talking about story, characters and ideas here), with a lot more options.
Also, a little contradictory, but, remember: "A thing is a thing, not what is said of that thing.", so it's best to play it yourself and form your own opinions.

>>4095067
>actual discussion on whether to play it
As a game it's abysmal. An isometric visual novel composed 80% of clicking around aimlessly pixel-hunting for the right clay pot containing the item you need or named NPC who'll tell you where to go next or engaged in some of the worst combat in the history of RPGs. You'll seriously want to die every time a fight comes up. Just spazzy flailing with so little input that you might as well be rolling dice for all the influence skill or tactical decisions have on the outcome.

And as for the writing, as I said; this original and complex setting boils down to a vaguely exotic D&D-punk city full of the same shit you see in every other D&D setting only occasionally someone mentions that they materialized out of a dream or some banal crap like that. The protagonist's personal story is no more interesting. He has no memory but his journey to get it back goes nowhere slowly. 90% of plot developments are 'maybe I know something, go do 3 more hours of tedious shit for me of the kind you've been doing all game and maybe we'll give you another plot point'. The point to point writing would be considered unremarkable and pedestrian in any other medium and I can't recall a single compelling or even particularly interesting thing out of my entire 10 or so hours spent on the game. Seriously if this impresses you you might as well save time and just set your screensaver to fireworks and stare at that for 20 hours.

>>4095093
You wouldn't know a goddamn shitpost if it jumped out and bit you on your fucking dick, so get off my back.

>>4095095
>one of the best cRPGs
The whole genre is a failure. And your point on lowering the standards on writing because it's a video game doesn't hold up. If the game part is what matters why not play something that gets that right? This story is nothing worth suffering the gameplay over and the gameplay is nothing worth suffering the story over. I've played games that did both right, this isn't one.

>>4095101
>10 hours spent
Ok this is prime shitposting, kudos for the effort though kid

>>4095084
Actually, I just really dislike that style of writing in particular. I picked it up because the themes were interesting to me but it wasn't what I was expecting at all, I don't think that the mode of storytelling Planescape attempts can be pulled off without copious talent, creative vision and effort. The latter two were perfectly fine, but what talent among the team there was, was either insufficient or spread too thin. In another, less literary mode of storytelling it would be fine. As it is, it's simply not very good.

>>4095103
>it actually gets good 45 hours in
>guess you just weren't cut out for it... kid
I refuse to believe that there's anything the game could have done to redeem itself after what I saw. Don't say the story got better, a good writer doesn't need 500 pages of your patience before providing something worth reading. Don't say the gameplay got better, that engine is fucking gimped. What could possibly have made it worth it after 10 hours?

>>4095108
t. never played anything remotely outside the mainstream and is a dumbass

>>4095114
So you have no actual defense for the game's banal writing.

>>4095389
Banal =/= atmospheric world building autismo

>>4095395
What "atmosphere" does this game build? San Francisco homeless encampment?

>>4095409
>What atmosphere does PST build
>Having to answer this
You have to be over 18 to post here anon

>>4095412
Still no actual arguments in defense of this game. All you seem capable of are insults.

>>4095425
>He just threw a fishing rod into the water

>>4095409
Go back to /v/, you fucking moron.

>>4095458
>comfy

>everything that disagrees with me is shitposting!

>>4085950
>You are not allowed to point out the flaws in a game
>You are not allowed to voice your opinion against something
>If you don't like it, there's something wrong with you

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This thread made me lost hope for /vr/. Another board off the list, I guess.

>>4096637
>Expecting le retro gaimz board to be anything other than a contrarian circlejerk

>>4096637

If you have other options, I'd vacate 4chan as a whole, honestly. :/

>>4096656
>contrarian circlejerk
But anon, that's what sparks the best conversations

>>4096664
Not really. Having different opinions and discussion is great, but on 4chan you won't get any of that

>>4096668

You can, but don't expect it to be the norm. Particularly these days.

>>4095473
I posted this previously and I will reiterate it again: Planescape: Torment was a VERY good RPG for its time during the late 90s. Is it the best game or RPG ever? Of course not--gaming has progressed a lot since then. Is the Infinity engine the best thing ever? Does Planescape: Torment rival literary cornerstones outside of gaming? Again--no, but it was extremely unique during the late 90s. Keep in mind that RPG gamers had a choice between either tile based blobbers like Stonekeep/Might and Magic/etc that had basically no story, turn based console JRPGs like Final Fantasy 6/7 with an alright combat system that had been done 1,000 times over but had an extremely simplistic story, or games like Fallout, Planescape, or Baldur's Gate that incorporated a combat system that was a combination of the two yet possessed a very adult oriented story-line in comparison to games like Final Fantasy 7/Wild Arms/etc etc. Obviously, gamers that were young during the late 90s that preferred a more mature story-line and could adapt to the mechanics of the Infinity engine would probably consider games like Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment as the greatest games of their time due to the nostalgia factor.

If you're going to shit on games like Planescape: Torment for not holding up to contemporary standards, you might as well consider games like the Might and Magic series, the Wizardry series, the Ultima series, Final Fantasy 1 - 9, Fallout 1 and 2, the Eye of the Beholder series, etc etc etc to be complete shit, too.

Kids that didn't grow up playing these type of games would find a better home on /v/.

>>4098773
What if I do consider most of those games shit? What now? Fallout 2 is unplayable just due to how bad the dialogue is. 1 played slightly worse but at least kept that stupid crap to a minimum, letting me focus on exploding people with broken luck builds.

>>4098816
I hope that means you liked fallout 1 because I would have to discard your opinion otherwise

>>4098917
it's okay

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>>4083690

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meathead run complete.