Put these jrpg concepts in order of priority for you: Combat,

>>4074126
1. Combat
2. Exploration
3. Dungeon
4. Characters
5. Plot
6. Item Collecting
I think World Immersion is a product of other previously mentioned concepts being done well

combat
characters
dungeon
exploration
item collecting
world immersion

>>4074145
oh yeah, and I guess I'd put plot between dungeon and exploration

>>4074126
Characters
Combat
Exploration
Dungeon
Plot
World Immersion
Item Collecting

I guess? If the game doesn't have cool characters it'll turn me off immediately.

And I don't know what you mean by just "dungeon". The layouts? What's in them? The look? How many there are?

>>4074126
I have to add two catagories

1. *Customization/Control (ex. Job system)
2. Combat
3. Exploration
4. *Soundtrack
5. Dungeons
6. Item collecting
7. Characters
8. World Immersion
9. Plot

1. Resource Management
2. Variety of Magic
3. Usefulness of LUCK stat
4. Number of water dungeons (lower is better)
5. Existence and accessibility of air or wind elemental techniques (Must be distinct from thunder)
6. Main character's hair color
7. Number of airships (higher is better)

Dungeon
Combat
Exploration
World Immersion
Characters
Item Collecting
Plot

Did I miss anything?

>>4074126
1. plot
2. characters
3. world immersion
4. combat
5. exploration
6. item collecting

Also those putting combat at number one are dumbies. It's a fucking JRPG

>>4074126
most
world immersion
characters
plot
exploration
combat
dungeon
item collecting
least

>>4074180
not our fault you play shit games retard

>>4074160
Dungeoning takes easily 1/4-1/3 of a jrpg. Some dungeons are just lineal with some rooms like in FF, others put more thought (Lufia II). I think it deserves its own category.

>>4074137
It might not be a thing with jrpgs, in rpgs is a great deal (think of world building.)

>>4074180
> Also those putting combat at number one are dumbies. It's a fucking JRPG

Most of the time spent playing is in combat. So yes, it's important to people who don't just fast forward the combat. Games like Valkyrie Profile wouldn't be as good if the combat was trash.

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Exploration
World/level design
Combat
Difficulty
Sense of humor
Music and sound effects
Characters
Immersion
Plot
Item collecting

1. Female characters
2. Dungeon
3. Combat
4. Exploration
5. World Immersion
6. Plot
7. Item Collecting
8. Male characters

>>4074381
>trying this hard to prove you're not a fag

Combat
Exploration
Dungeon
Characters
Plot
World Immersion
Item Collection

1. Characters
2. Plot
3. Combat
4. World Inmersion
5. Dungeon
6. Exploration
7. Item Collecting

>>4074137
This but swap characters and item collecting.

>>4074137
This post is correct. Why are there other posts?

>>4074126
Exploration
Characters
World Immersion
Plot
Dungeons
Combat
Item Collecting

>All these people putting combat near the top

You guys are playing the wrong genre. There's no such thing as an RPG with good combat

>>4074450
This guy has it right.

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I hope all the people favouring plot and characters over anything else are able to recognize best FF

>>4075530
if you put plot or characters near the top you should find a different hobby because video games with good plots or characters don't exist

>>4075556
Define good.

>>4075562
good - of high quality; excellent
what definition were you using when refering to "good" combat

>>4075556
I don't put those at the top. The world and exploration are at the top for me.

>>4075578
you're playing the wrong genre
there's no such thing as an RPG with good exploration or world immersion

>>4075582
Sure there are. The Dragon Quest games after the first one, the NES Final Fantasy games + V, MOTHER 1 and 2, etc. are all fun to explore.

It's necessary for JRPGs to have tedious battles that boil down to mashing A. If every single battle required skill or strategy, players would get pissed off with the high encounter rate.

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>>4075587
>The Dragon Quest games after the first one
>after the first one
The first game's world is very fun to explore.
also
>If every single battle required skill or strategy, players would get pissed off with the high encounter rate.
If a combat system is sound, you don't mind fighting often.

>>4075587
there is nothing fun or immersive about exploring 2D worlds
they just serve as a backdrop for the dungeon crawling, resource management and combat, but rpgs need boring and simple worlds so those aspects don't get tedious

>>4075594
I'm still waiting for you to list some with decent combat.

Every JRPG combat system either boils down to:

Attack at a high level and just keep pressing A, remembering to cast Cure (or the equivalent) sometimes

Or attack at a low level and pray to RNGesus that the myriad of other abilities in the game actually work, when all the other abilities either have a really shit hit rate or half of the enemies in the game are immune.

>>4075607
>I'm still waiting for you to list some with decent combat.
you already said "there is no such thing as an RPG with good combat" so you've made up your mind
but alright - treasure hunter g, legend of dragoon, baten kaitos origins (not retro)

>>4075607
Good RPG combat is essentially a puzzle game in disguise where the objective is to figure out the way to win the battles while minimizing resource loss. Whether you find this enjoyable or not is of course subjective, but within that framework there are obviously games with more or less nuanced, more or less well-tuned, and more or less creative combat systems.

If you think that all JRPG combat boils down to "press A over and over" or "get fucked by RNG" then you've either played too small a sample of JRPGs to actually be commenting on them or else you're too stupid to understand how they work.

>>4075663
Mostly it boils down to repeatedly use the shit with the most DPS while keeping your units healed and buffed.

>>4075679
Well then why don't you just don't play games like these?

Good games change things up. Example: FF5.

In the phoenix tower you can power up your favorite physical attacker as usual. Give him two strong weapons, why not. Put haste on him, so he's faster and causes even more damage in less time, because more damage is good right? And then the enemies counter the attacks with Zombie status, and your buffed powerhouse kills everyone in your party while they suffer from sleep, paralysis and so on.

Or SaGa Frontier. You kill everything you see during the Riki final boss carefully using your cheapest attacks. But then you get massacred by Revolution 9. Turns out that you maybe should have risked using stronger waza to spark an even better waza and focused on the boss rather than on the minions.

So, why don't you play good RPGs instead of playing RPGs where you repeatedly use the shit with the most DPS while keeping your units healed and buffed?

>>4074473
This.

>>4074209
>implying the most universally loved JRPGs like Persona 3 and 4 or Final Fantasy VI and VII have good combat

>>4076079
Who gives a shit? I don't play them because their combat is shit.

>>4076079
the persona games beyond the first two are dating sim trash anyway

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>>4074126
1. Combat
2. Immersion (atmosphere)
3. Characters / Plot
4. Dungeon design
5. Exploration
6. Item collecting (what?)

Firstly a game has to be bearable to play, that is what you should be doing a majority of the time. For rpgs I feel the immersion is one of their strengths as they allow one to really explore a world so developing it and making the world interesting is important. Personally I feel characters and plot intertwine, good characters can make a make a plot interesting, vice versa as well. Dugeon design is a weird one, I know it's important but I feel like as long as their at the least interesting to navigate and not too tedious to venture through then it works. For exploration I am assuming you mean nonlinearity, in which case I think it depends on the game. Beinf linear is fine as long as the long as the game has other aspects that encourage replayability like customization. If you exploration as in "interest in the places you explore" then I would put it higher.
>>4076079
>universally loved JRPGs like Persona 3 and 4
Thanks, needed a laugh. People just like them for the VN aspect, the actual gameplay is average. If you like the slice of life bullshit then fine, but P5 has only become popular since the market has been so boring people are willing to leave their comfort zones.

>>4076089
What's wrong with dating sims? Managing time, stats and money is most than most RPGs require you to do.

>>4074126
Characters
Story

Playing a turn based rpg for gameplay is just retarded. All you're doing is selecting menu options. Gameplay is the weakest part or non action rpgs.

>>4076138
*of

>>4076128
They're shitty VNs where you all you do is choosevsome text options when given to you. Fuck off.

>>4076150
Confirmed for never playing a dating sim.

>>4076138
playing any game while hating 70% of the gameplay (which is battling for the majority of JRPGs) is simply retarded
stick to VNs or point and click games

>>4074126
1. Combat (with the extra stipulation of customization and choices)
2. Item Collecting
3. Exploration
4. Dungeon
5.Plot
6.Characters
7. World Immersion (can you even get immersed in a JRPG?)

>>4076193
You can't explore shit in VNs and point and clicks have retarded nonsense puzzles

>>4074450
This.

>>4074126
What are some JRPG's with 'good combat'?

For me, I always felt like I had to merely tolerate random encounters and turn based, so that I could enjoy the sense of adventure in FFVI.

My first JRPG was Secret Of Mana, so I've found action RPG's to feel a bit more engaging, and the sequel was even better in this regard.

These days when i see people criticise combat in a modern game like Witcher 3, I wonder what their benchmark is? Since I enjoyed Secret Of Mana I imagine Witcher 3 would be fine for me.

>>4076756
>What are some JRPG's with 'good combat'?
Xenogears, Legend of Legaia, Valkyrie Profile

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>>4076756
Define turn based combat though. i consider DQ to have have good combat as typically you will have to be smart with your resources and abilities. Enemies can fuck you up instantly and you always need to be ready for shit to go down.

Breath of Fire IV has,what i personally consider, the greatest turn based system combt system. You always have your full party in battle, sim members, but only three can be used on a turn. You also have rows, the three characters actually doing a action will go in the front while the other three are in the back. With this system you can switch characters whenever allowing you to constantly change tactics and adapt. Also brilliant is the combo system. Magic attacks can turn into combos depending on what the attack is followed by. For example, if you use a wind spell and then a fire spell the fire spell will turn into a new, more powerful spell. This also applies to buffs as well. If you, say, do a buff spell and then a group healing spell the healing spell will now work with the buf f spell and grant a small additional buff. The combat is absolutely brilliant. Sadly there is one flaw, the game is quite easy honestly. While battles are fun with this system rarely is the system truly pushed to it's limits. Though the end game has some more difficult battles so it does get a bit difficult. I highly recommend the game, it is phenomenal.

>>4076789
>Xenogears
>good combat
What magical pot this kid smoking? Hope you aren't one of the anons who put "combat" first.

>>4076804
It's good combat for a JRPG in the late 90s, anon.

>>4076834
No, it wasn't. Trust me, I was there

>>4074126
Characters > Combat > Exploration > Dungeon (I'm assuming this is like dungeon design) > World Immersion > Plot > Item Collecting

>>4075530
Terranigma

>>4076834
Xenogears combat is garbage. There are many famicom RPGs with better combat. Had to force myself to slog through it to finish the story.

>>4074126
Soundtrack
World Immersion
Combat
Dungeon
Characters
Plot
Exploration
Item collecting

Bad combat and or dungeons can ruin the whole game, only reason to list it high. Have only played a few RPGs with legitimately well designed combat, and that's only when they break standard conventions massively

>>4076841
I was there too, duder. Everything else at the time was just FF-style select "fight" and watch.

>>4076906
>Xenogears combat is garbage. There are many famicom RPGs with better combat.
lol name them

>>4076952
>Everything else at the time was just FF-style select "fight" and watch
What? See my autism in >>4076795 ,not every jrpg has ten minute long unskippable cinematics for every attack.

>>4076964
BoFIV was after Xenogears

name those famicom RPGs

Characters, Plot, Combat, Dungeon, Item Collection, World Immersion, Exploration,

>>4076972
Not that anon, I have never played xenogears myself so I don't have much of an opinion on it. I have to assume xenogears has better combat if only for being a ps1 game, though I think DQIII and DQIV have good combat even to this day.

>>4076974
I'm not saying DQ or traditional JRPG menu battle system is bad, I'm just saying that "Xenogears combat is garbage" is a completely hyperbolic opinion bordering on total lie.

>>4076980
Like I said, never played it so I wouldn't know. from my understanding I remember hearing that more people like the on ground combat but that most of the game is mech combat, maybe that's what that guy means.

1. Combat
2. Dungeon design (this can honestly be above combat sometimes)
3. Characters
4. Item Collection
5. Plot
6. World Immersion
7. Exploration, this is at the bottom because I generally prefer exploration in JRPGs to be kept to a minimum

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LOL Is there even a game that fits my tastes?

Dungeon
Item Collecting
Exploration
World Immersion
Combat
Plot
Characters

>>4077013
Any good dungeon crawler (Legend of Grimrock, Black Crypt, Dungeon Master, Wizardry, etc.).

>>4077013
Seems like a Roguelite would fit the bill. Maybe something like Shiren the Wanderer or Azure Dreams or Izuna the Unemployed Ninja on NDS.

>>4074126
Jrpg is not a genre.

>>4077089
Don't be a pedantic asshole

>>4074126
1-Combat
2-Item Collecting
3-World Inmersion
4-Dungeon
5-Characters
6-Plot

I'd add 0.5-Customization for stuff like gear/spell/character systems that are part of several jrpgs, but oh well.

>>4076795
>A-button quest
>Good combat

I don't care as long is does at least two of those things really well.

>>4074180 here
Forgot to put dungeon in my rankings, so it'd be
1. plot
2. characters
3. world immersion
4. combat
5. dungeon
6. exploration
7. item collecting

And I still stand by my point. Combat is important but JRPGs almost never have great combat and the best ones tend to be beloved because they have great stories and characters.

If you want something like a JRPG with good combat, play a action RPG or a strategy RPG.

>>4074126
World Immersion
Combat
Characters/Plot
Exploration
Item Collecting
Dungeon

Idk what you meant by item collecting and dungeon. I like item variety, but not collect/fetch quests. I like dungeon and environment variety and I don't even mind them being linear some of the time.

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Combat
Music
Characters.

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>>4076795
An absolute slog. Good combat doesn't save horrible pacing and sephiroth-tier character posing. I liked 2 and 3 and absolutely loved 5, now that was a brilliant game. I had to force myself to go through 4 and it beat me at around a dozen hours.

Incidentally:

1. Plot (Chrono Trigger)
2. Characters (Grandia)
3. Combat (Mystic Ark)
4. World Immersion (FFIX)
5. Exploration (Digimon World)
6. Dungeon (Grandia XTreme, Lufia2)
7. Item Collecting (Legend of Mana)

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>>4078632
I'm going to need some explanation. If horrible pacing gets you I don't know how you love BoFIII. Also Fou Lu is literally nothing like Sephiroth unless you mean design wise, Fou Lu isn't even the villain or really a truly awful person. It has it's flaws, it's a bit easy as I said in my prior post and the last couple hours have some padding, but I'm interested why you feel that way.

I literally played it for the first time just this year, probably one of my favorite games now.

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>>4078682
Compared to previous BOF games, i couldn't find or keep track of the plot. The beginning of BOF3 is extremely relevant to the kind of people the main characters grow into. It's literally playing through their troubled childhoods, and then seeing the kind of people those experiences made them. BOF4 in my opinion doesn't come close, and the Fou Lu segments seem to exist only for coolness sake (so yes, design-wise).
I got quickly exhausted by the apparently inane plot development, despite being completely wowed with the sprite work and impressed by the battle system. In any case i'm planning on replaying it again, as it's been many years.

>>4077390
"jRPGs never have good combat" is true, but irrelevant.
IF they had good combat, would the genre improve as a whole? The better way to say is "jRPGs have simple gameplay BECAUSE the player is intended to enjoy the plot and characters first, and elaborate combat would detract from that"

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>>4078708
The Fou Lu sections are incredibly plot important though. They were important in developing Fou Lu, the history of the dragon summoning, and Yuna.

I really recommend playing it again, I think you might just be remembering stuff wrong. I can't say your view will change for sure but I think you might change your mind if you did. Anyways good taste on BoFV, my second favorite after BoFIV.