This game is overly complicated

pick a weapon and a shield for a frontliner
don't dual wield
have only one character in the front so his evasion will go up faster
give magic to characters in the back row, and use bows to conserve MP
avoid heavy armor

it's really easy once you know what you're doing

I love how people complain that JRPGs have no "game" elements to them, but as soon as you introduce systems that actually require the player to observe and learn suddenly it's too hard.

this game is awesome OP, i have no idea what you are talking about. Never played a final fantasy game ever where i sweat so hard to where i soaked my sheets.

>>4073625
Whatever you do try to raise your evasion stat. There's this dungeon in the game called the Mysidian Tower and it's a pretty large difficulty spike because the enemies there can confuse you.

>>4073625
This OP is overly complicated

Using a shield helps raise evasion btw and like another anon said, it's an important stat.

Even when you know what you're doing the game starts off a little slow in the leveling department, but once you get going and start getting spell levels up while also boosting stamina and spirit stats, you'll start getting strong in no time. Once you get your first npc I recommend taking the time to build your main three characters up since monsters will be easier to handle with a fourth guy

>>4073625
>Please tell me other Final Fantasy games are not like this
They are not. Not sure what your problem is though. The point of FF2's system is that you can have any character get good at any weapon. Just pick one weapon category for each character (or barehanded) and stick with it. As for backrow characters, keep in mind that equiping a bow will cripple your magic. If you want an attack mage keep them lightly armoured and barehanded. I only bother equipping one of the main three characters, personally. Oh, and don't dual wield. It may increase skillups but your accuracy goes to shit and you'll do less damage overall.

>>4073625
I played this like any other Final Fantasy and beat it no problem. If you're playing the remake train your temporary characters bc Soul of Rebirth is a bitch.

>>4073625
>The leveling system that everyone hates aside
The leveling system is wonderful. It hadn't been perfected yet, but it's far more interesting than just XP and levels and makes the game way more fun. It shouldn't be too complicated to anyone decently intelligent.

Stupid people like you are why linear boring trash like FFIV is so popular and the JRPG genre became a joke.

>>4073728
Sad but true.

>>4073728
>>4075713
t. Sagautists

>>4075713

thats some nice projecting there you autist

>>4075765
Projecting what exactly? FFII gives you far more choices to make which makes it a much more interesting game to play. FFIV strips almost all the decision making away from the player so he always has exactly the right party set up for where he is in the game. It's fair to like it better for one reason or another, but objectively it's less of a game than FFII is.

>>4075802
>FFII gives you far more choices to make which makes it a much more interesting game to play.
And 90% of those choices are the wrong choice, 5% of the remaining ones fuck the game in the ass, and the remaining 5% is reasonably balanced. There are so many trap options in II that it's unreal and its spell/weapon levels system does NOT fucking help.

>>4073625
>pick a weapon and a shield for a frontliner
don't dual wield
>have only one character in the front so his evasion will go up faster
>give magic to characters in the back row, and use bows to conserve MP
>avoid heavy armor

I did the opposite of most of this without problems. Everybody was frontline, everybody dual-wielded (Firion swords, Maria spears, Hal axes). I had a variety of armor, and gave magic to all three; Firion got Black, Maria got White, Hal got Black status spells like Aura, Berserk and Haste). It did make battles with Confuse-casting enemies very fucking hairy later on.

One really annoying thing is you basically need a guide when it comes to teaching characters magic. II only has two categories for magic, and while some spells are obviously Black or White, there are some spells you'd thing were one category, based on their effect, but they're actually the other.

>>4076063
did you use the instakill spells like toad/break/death?

>>4075751
But FFIV is linear boing trash though, anon. Having zero control over party composition for the majority of the game and zero decision making as to what characters will learn and when makes for a game that's worth playing to completion maybe once.

>>4076067
rarely, if ever.

>>4073625
What version of 2 are you playing? It has a bunch of remakes that scale the difficulty back if you're having trouble.

>>4076094
PSP

I could see how somebody who's completely new to JRPGs wouldn't get into this one. I know a lot of people that are very into JRPGs and they can't get into it.

OP, /vr/ will try to tell you that FF2 is a fantastic game. Nowadays it's just decent, but back then it was hugely avant garde and pushed what a JRPG could be and how they could play. It's fine not to play the games in the order they came out, especially with FF, and maybe come back to it later when you have more knowledge on how to work it.

if you were in charge of making a remake, how would you attempt to improve the game (if you think the game could use improvements)?
removing the leveling system is out of the question of course
>offensive magic and the attack command can only target enemies
maybe this would stop the "hit yourself to get HP" complaints that show up in every review of this game
>disable the fight command for backrow characters if they're using short ranged weapons
so that innefective attacks wouldn't increase weapon skills
>make spell starting level dependant on characters int/soul
if your character is a retard with 5 int all black magic spells would start at lv.1
if he is a 99 int genius a new black magic spell would automatically start at lv. 16
same goes for soul and white magic
>let the player decide which level of a spell he wants to use in battle
>keep the stat downs
>remove option to save in dungeons
>give bosses immunity to some, but not all status effects
>a party chat system like the one in DQVII or Emerald Dragon because why not

I like the game and admire it for its ambition, but it sucks seeing it at the bottom of almost every FF list

>>4076113
Ah, that's probably the easiest version. I think 2 is a good game, but if you're really having this hard a time there's no shame in skipping it. Come back to it later, if you want.

If you like the IDEA of 2 but would rather see it executed better, you could try some of the SaGa games. If not, you could just skip ahead to later FF games. I can especially recommend 5 and 6.

>>4075980
That's why the remakes are better, many more strategies and party set ups are viable. But even at just 5% of them being optimal in the original, it's still a heck of a lot better than FFIV where literally all you have to do is not use your pre-rolled characters like a retard to win. Even that's thrown out if you grind.

You can like IV more, everyone enjoys what they enjoy but it's indisputable that it's less of a game.

>>4076176
>maybe this would stop the "hit yourself to get HP" complaints that show up in every review of this game
Naw, keep it in the game but since there aren't as many limitations on current hardware compared to the NES just do things that will track that damage was dealt by a character or by that characters spell to alter their HP to be lower. Maybe put in more enemies that cast Sleep since the original intention of being able to hit your own guys was that if they were put asleep it just makes sense to whack them awake with your own guys.
>so that innefective attacks wouldn't increase weapon skills
>make spell starting level dependant on characters int/soul
Easiest way around that would not have specific skill levels up have those skills based on raw stats so strength, int, and soul become very important rather than a split between skill level and the characters attributes. It allows you to equip what ever weapons or skills you want while having them still proficient. This will drive the point home for specialization with going with weapons or spells since if you are continually using an attack that uses a certain stat then its opposing stat will weaken. So you can have good spell casters, a paladin, or if you just want mediocrity but flexibility then more of a red mage build.

Though there is a problem with both ways, since you won't be able to cast a low tier spell you are forced to spend a bunch of mana to just cast a spell rather than having a bunch of spells of various levels in case you need to conserve mana.
>>4075980
>and its spell/weapon levels system does NOT fucking help.
It is the most intuitive way to build your characters.

This game is easy. Just enjoy grinding when you have free in your life. I like to make all my characters good at everything, and grind magic. and whenever I'm done doing that just progress with the story. It helps to use this video if you ever get lost about what to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwuGmeK5qIM&t=719s

If you want to use dungeon maps too, thats ok considering the high number of random encounters. Save that MP for Cure. The enemies are easy often, but there are tons of encounters ;). Happy gaming OP, FF2 is a good one.

Also, one final thing, enjoy immersing yourself as the main character. It can be fun attacking your own characters in the woods. Remember, you are rebels fighting an evil empire. So there's a lot of hiding in the woods and training one another (its sorta like Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Pt1).

>>4076495
>It is the most intuitive way to build your characters.

I think that guy must have been genuinely retarded

>>4073625
None of the next Final Fantasy games are like that.
But the SaGa games (some of which were released as the Final Fantasy Legend Trilogy in the US) are basically Final Fantasy II's leveling system done right.

Anyways, Final Fantasy II is still pretty good but it's the weakest one in the entire series.

>>4077934
It is intuitive, but it was horribly made. The RPG Maker 2000 game Final Fantasy Endless Nova uses a similar concept and it works much, much better.

>>4078603
That's nice. It isn't surprising that a game that comes out decades later to be more refined than one made in the late 1980's actually trying to implement experimental mechanics.

>>4076495
It's not the concept, it's the implementation. Spells, things that take resources and thus can't be blindly leveled, taking 4 to 5 times the effort to level compared to something with unlimited usage is insanely stupid, especially when most of those spells are fucking useless until you sink several levels in. That's before you factor in the ridiculous amounts of casts you need to level up something, the poor balance between spells, and shit like that.

>>4078595
>it's the weakest one in the entire series.

That's FFIV.

>>4078810
One mana isn't a lot, and when it levels it is 2 mana and through doing that you consume MP which will eventually increase your maximum MP.

>>4078867
One MP is a lot when you have to cast a spell 100 times and accomplish just about nothing each time for it to level up. Even in the easy mode remakes it still takes way too many castings to level spells up.

>>4078879
There should be no reason for the mage to not to be casting spells. Not only that you can rotate spells so you can use the spell that uses less mana to conserve your mana while leveling up your spells along with exploiting elemental weaknesses which have a huge damage boon for spells. Especially when you consider turtles are so resistant to physical attacks and sometimes you get undead mobs or in certain dungeons pure ice mobs in which select spells can make short work of encounters without needing it to be a very high level.

You don't need your spells to be level 16.

This game is shit, its always been shit, and the dumb faggot trying to argue that shitty FF4 is less of a game is laughable and mentally retarded.

you can say THIS GAME IS OPEN all you want(and you'd be lying) but in the end, all that matters is if its entertaining. FF2 is not entertaining.

>>4078995

It's an NES game from 1988 that did a shit ton of stuff no other game had tried to do at the time. The only real reason it looks bad now is because so many games have taken what it started and developed it. You can like it or not, but pretending it's got no redeeming values is childish.

>>4073728
Except the system has to be good and well implemented in first place.
If it makes the game a chore and a drag to play then why force yourself to like it?

Is like eating nails because you think it'll make you a man.

They don't

>>4076069
>linear
>Having zero control over party composition for the majority of the game and zero decision making as to what characters will learn and when makes for a game that's worth playing to completion maybe once.
this criticism baffles me, considering that other popular games like Dragon Quest 5 and Phantasy Star 4 have that as well but aren't hated like this.

>>4078890
>There should be no reason for the mage to not to be casting spells.
Which barely matters when you need so many casts to actually improve a spell. Stop defending this shit.

>>4079305
Not the guy you're replying to, but Dragon Quest V actually does give you a considerable amount of choice in regards to your party composition once you can start recruiting monsters.

>>4079449
But it doesn't take long to realize that MC plus both of his children are the best party possible.

>>4078603
>It is intuitive, but it was horribly made.
I think it was fantastically made. Not that it couldn't be improved upon, but as is it was a wonderful game.

>>4078810
Yes, you can't just spam mindlessly to level everything up. Honestly I think you must just suck or have zero patience or sense of progression.

>>4079670
I think you must be a fanboy. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why literally having to grind out your spells way in excess of what it takes to level up a weapon is a shitty idea, let alone why it's even worse when combined with shitty dead weight spells. All that time you spent leveling up Aura is completely pointless when Berserk is better than it in every way and you get screwed for trying to split your attention between the two. Protect? Why bother when Blink shuts down physical damage better than it ever could and Shell shuts down the other half?

It's a bad system and the RS-era spell school skill levels system is better in every single way.

>>4079743
I guess we disagree. I prefer ffii over all the others in the series. Even if it's not perfectly balanced it's a lot more interesting to play than the others.

We don't have to agree...

>>4079749
It's not interesting to have the screws put to you for not going full laser focus on the few good spells in the game.

>>4079753
To me figuring that stuffoutis part of the learning process and part of the fun. Didn't say it was perfect but it's pretty darn great and like it a lot more than the other ff games

>>4079759
The learning process shouldn't involve you casting a spell over 300 times to figure out whether it's any good or not. That's bullshit of the highest order.

>>4079749
i hear ya

>>4079293
>causing permanent physical harm yourself vs getting used to a frustrating system in a video game
one of these things is not like the other

>>4079764
It doesn't.

>>4079806
Do you have any idea how many spells aren't even useful until several levels in, if even that?

>>4078814
>not XIII
>not IX

>>4079858
>not All The Bravest

>>4078595
>>4078814

I'd call both of these bad games so in the end I don't think you two have any reason to argue.

>>4079449
It takes a long time until you get to recruit anyone, and due to the low recruitment rate most monsters have your choices in an average run are very limited. It doesn't help that most monsters are extremely similar in regards of abilities as well.

>>4073625
Dungeon design aside, I think the biggest flaw in FF2 is enemy balance. Enemies are either too powerful or too weak, most of the time they are weak. But absorb damage in this game is calculated by The target's HP. Making enemies that absorb HP insanely overpowered.This is also why the blood sword is so broken, as bosses tend to have high HP, blood sword can easily two shot them.

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>>4073625
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMIySTo5SBA

>>4073625
Here are some of my thoughts of the game.
-Story is great, it kept me engaged.
-Level up system is meh. The changes didn't feel much in the end. I usually grind a lot in RPGs, so leveling up magic wasn't so bad.
- I made a mistake by equipping heavy armor. And Mysidian tower is a pain to go through. Those imps man. Confuse hurts.
-anything that absorbs HP is fucking broken, screw you death rider.
-Most bosses were a complete joke. The first fight with the emperor is extremely underwhelming, that bitch didn't even attack me. And late game bosses can be 2 shot by the blood sword. The gigas and laima queen in Mysidian tower were the only real challenge.
>Holy flare and ultima are worthless spells, you already have a higher level magic spell by the time you get them
>The dungeon design, oh god.

>>4079436
Yeah, and you improve them over time through casting them since that is their job. Exploiting elemental weaknesses from the enemies to net big damage from them and so on. Spells are useful, you don't need to gain a level up every few minutes, nor do you need to reach level XVI for the spells either.

>>4080673
Most jrpgs appeal to perfectionist autists who want to min max everything and make the game super easy. FFII just isn't a game for them.

>>4080673
>Exploiting elemental weaknesses from the enemies to net big damage from them
You mean the thing that never happens unless you deliberately grinded all three elemental spells up at the same time, which makes it even more implausible that you're going to get your buff/debuff spells up to the level where they're workable?

It's not okay for most non-broken spells to only start working worth a shit at level 3 or 4 when you might have a single non-Cure spell at level 10 by the time you end the game - if you focused on it to the exclusion of nearly everything else. And it just gets worse when you factor in bad spell balance. How the fuck is it even remotely reasonable for Aura to never pay off as much as Berserk, or for a blinding spell to have a lower success rate than a fucking AoE instant death spell?

>>4080804
The game gets super easy the second you get Minwu because of how retarded it is to level your stats.

Rasp and Drain to get endgame stats in 10 minutes.

>>4080841
>You mean the thing that never happens unless you deliberately grinded all three elemental spells up at the same time, which makes it even more implausible that you're going to get your buff/debuff spells up to the level where they're workable?
Then focus on one or two attack spells and get a buff spell.

Not even grinding elemental spells, just using them in combat while going from destination to destination. With just going to place to place I could fall undead with my fire spells easily, especially if I single target them. You are just trying to brute force it, you don't need those spells at such a high level, especially not early in the game, nor in the mid game. Choose your spells and targets wisely and you will get much more of an impact from those spells.
>>4080804
Sad that anything after the PS1 version doesn't punish them enough for it. You get the point driven home that you should probably specialize because strength and magic are on other sides of the spectrum and if one goes up you might soon see the other go down. I know where you are coming from though. I often go straight to the story routes, I don't linger around and grind, and try to pass bosses with what ever equipment, spells, and levels I am at and see if I can pass. Especially on final bosses I don't try to grind out a bunch of levels or look for end game equips.

>>4079498
The kids are rubbish, monsters all the way.

>>4080878
>use exploits till the game is stupid easy
You're a true jrpg player at least

This thread is making me want to give FF2 another try.

I personally enjoyed FF2 a ton. The remake, dawn of souls on GBA was, in my opinion, a good game. Dated, a bit shallow on story, but I did genuinely enjoy it.

I never had issues where I needed to endlessly grind or hit my guys to increase HP. It's been about 2 years since I played it, so it's not even "rose tinted glasses" or anything. I had Guy use spells like teleport/warp whatever the spell was that let you escape dungeons. Firion used some spells like cure and esuna or cure poison or whatever it was called. Sword and shield. Basically a paladin archtype. Girl used bows and magic. Easy.

The biggest, in my opinion, downside to FF2 is the party member system. You swap around like 4 or 5 party members so they're basically dead weight. After the opening, I knew the 4th slot would rotate out and sure enough;


I hated getting to the end and picking up 4th guy whose name I don't remember because he sucked that bad. I miss Pirate Waifu, she was cool and basically on par with the rest of my team "level" wise. Personal FF ranking;


8, 9, 6, 5, 2, 4, 10, 7, 15, 1, 3, and 12.

Never played 13, the spin offs and mmos im not counting. All in all, I highly enjoyed FF2 and if it ever gets a remake, i'd be stoked to play it.

>>4080970
Wow, it's like you almost understood my point but then went full retard because you won't admit that there's a problem with the game. If there's only room to level up about 3 spells and Cure just by playing the game normally, that means that any spell that doesn't pull double duty or dominate its niche is a complete waste of time, and there are a LOT of spells like that.

>>4079293
Of course eating nails doesn't make you a man, anon.

It's spinach you need to eat.

>>4081791
Whats super weird is that multiple people have laid out the ways and reasons they loved the game and all you can do is spew "FULL RETARD" and bitch. The game isn't for you and that's fine, but to some of us even in it's original and imperfect form it's still by far one of the best Final Fantasies there is.

>>4081845
Because it's shitty game design on so many different levels to the point where you'd have to be stupid to think it's a good thing. To this day Kawazu has never, ever, EVER done a spell system like that again.

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>>4081871
I don't know what to tell you dude, different strokes I guess but I find 2 more fun and interesting than most other FFs. To me IV is the epitome of shitty game design. But that's why it's good both exist, we will obviously never see eye to eye on it.

>>4081183
here here! yes! i agree. and i love 8 and 2 as well. Hi-Five!

>>4081871
>To this day Kawazu has never, ever, EVER done a spell system like that again.
That doesn't say much. Kawazu does what he wants.

>>4080979
The boy is good due to legendary equipment and unique skills, while the girl has tons of agility. Better than most of the monsters at least

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just finished the game (origins version on PSP) and it was great.
the leveling system is really cool idea and it is a shame that more games does not attempt something similar - with improvements, some of them mentioned above. however, I was not able to resist and ended up abusing it (I raised evasion so much that nothing was able to hit me), but it was completely unnecessary.
also, I loved the psx graphics, especially the tropical island and pandaemonium...

>>4085306

Yo, anon, if you're into FF2's leveling system and want to see a game that pushes it further, try the SaGa series. Either Romancing SaGa 3 on the SNES, or SaGa Frontier on the PSX. They both have similar concepts, in that your stats go up based on what you do in battle, but they push it even further by having you acquire skills that way too. Check out the SaGa thread if you want more info.

FFXI took a lot of ideas from FF2. Getting hit raises your evasion skill, you have skill levels for every weapon, magic skills for every magic, and they all took obsene amounts of time to raise

>>4073625
I played this immediately after FF1, I enjoyed it for the story but I hated the skill level up system (Hit self for HP, etc). That shit sucked donkey gonads in it's current state; I feel that it could have easily been great but missed the mark. Having random enemies be absolute fucking monsters while the rest are piss-easy was not fun. Having bosses tied to a specific square on the map was shit, I had to fight one of the endgame bosses twice because I accidentally backtracked immediately after the fight. I needed to use a guide from about the halfway point just to reduce the amount of random encounters I would have to take because I was starting to lose my shit from just how many there were.

To be quite frank, I had to force myself to finish the game but I'm glad I did.

>>4085306
If you like RPGs where you exercise stats to raise them, and have access to a DOS PC, try the Quest for Glory series.

>>4085690
>Getting hit raises your evasion skill,
I think it's evading that raises your evasion skill...
>and they all took obsene amounts of time to raise
But not no mo' it don't! The skill system was good, but as with the rest of the game the increases have been boosted to the most extreme extent so that you'll never need to even remember skill levels exist anymore.

>>4085714
>Having bosses tied to a specific square on the map was shit, I had to fight one of the endgame bosses twice because I accidentally backtracked immediately after the fight.
Wasn't that FF1? FF2's endgame bosses were all put in chests.

>>4075713
>boring trash like FFIV
Why?
I think it's great.
>>4076069
That's called story.
>>4078814
The only wrong thing with FFIV is the absurd random encounter rate.

>>4079305
Honestly, it's because FFIV fanbois will knock games for anything and everything then tout their god game as the literal best thing ever. And it's overflowing with obvious flaws too.

So the short version is:FFIV fans ate irritating children that piss us off.

Personally I like FFIV just fine, but it's obviously not among the best of the series. Not even the retro entries which all offer more variability and options. Even FFI can be replayed over 200 times with different teams, requiring at times VERY different approaches. FFIV is the exact same every time you play it, until very late into the game.so it's not as much fun.

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I've finished FFI on PSP.
Should I go for FFII or do you suggest something else?

>>4086762

There's no need to play this franchise in order of release. FF2 is fun, but it's different and you'll have to throw out a lot of your preconceptions about how JRPGs are "supposed" to play.

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>>4073625
>and you don't know what's better

How about picking what you like and enjoying the game? Fucking subhuman ape.

>>4086860
>preconceptions
Like what?
Since I like to use a PSP to play it, I was thinking of getting into FFIV > FFV > FFVII.
Or try chrono trigger or dragon quest.

>>4081153

So I started playing the GBA port of this game, and I'm having a real fun time with it. I think I just performed a sequence break? In Semitt Falls toward the start of the game, you free the slaves, and at that point you're done, but you can go deeper into the mines. When you get to the bottom, you find the Sergeant protecting some Mythril. I think you're probably not supposed to be able to fight him easily at this point, but I was able to beat him by having Minwu cast blink and protect on my whole team and then wailing on him and hoping for criticals and multihits (did 0 damage otherwise and was out of mana on Maria so I couldn't zap him). This game's really fun so far.

>>4087190
that's what you were supposed to do

>>4087196

Oh, I thought I had to go back and then bring Josef with me. My bad then. I'm still pretty satisfied with myself for clearing the fight without using attack magic, though.

>>4087190
If you want a real sequence break, check out the area on the west side of the river that leads to Semmit. Bring some decent magic with you.

>>4087218
>Oh, I thought I had to go back and then bring Josef with me
at one point you will

Is is possible to beat the game without equipping anything? Only using barefist and magic?

And how much do I have to grind if I do it that way?

>>4087623

One of the main things I'm noticing in my playthrough is that generally, I'm doing way more damage with magic than I am with physical attacks. There are a lot of armored enemies, enemies that take a ton of extra damage from certain elements, etc. It also seems like there are very few enemies that completely block or absorb magic. Your biggest problem would probably be surviving, since the best way to survive in this game is with a shield equipped.

What version of Dragon Quest III should I play?

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>>4088563
What device do you have?
SNES for the best graphics.

>>4088597
I want to emulate it.
So pretty much anything goes.
What version i considered the best among fans?

>>4088601

The GBC version is my favorite (best translation, least amount of bugs, most content)