LEGAL STATUS OF FAN MADE GAMES

I think you're still infringing the IP and using copyrighted material, so yes?
Just look at the fanmade non profit Zelda/Metroid projects that got a C&D upon release.

>>4070658
Give credit to everyone, make sure you use sprites from games that have been discontinued/not re-released in the past 4 fiscal years, make ENTIRELY SURE that your game is 200% free in every sense of the word.
Additionally you can also e-mail a representative from the franchise holder to ASK if said use of their sprites is agreed upon and to send you a written and signed confirmation that it is, just to be on the safe side.

Yes. It doesn't matter if your project is not commercial, it doesn't matter how old the games are, it doesn't matter if you give credit.

>>4070658
It's sort of a grey area but to answer your question, they can certainly get sued.

Whether or not a court will rule in their favor is another question but companies like Nintendo aren't even thinking that far ahead. If a project continues after the initial C&D (which is a warning) they will just bankrupt the devs with legal fees before anything really starts.

The issue is, stuff like Zelda and Mario are intellectual property of Nintendo, and they have spent a lot of money and many years working on and developing that property. Their fear is that kids making fan games will devalue or alter the perception of their intellectual property.

I like fan games and it bums me out when companies have them shut down, but it's important to see their side of it.

I think people just think it's okay if you're not making money off of it but that is based off a misunderstanding of intellectual property.

Based on what we have seen in the past, you will likely get sued if you continue development of said game after you have received a C&D (which you may or may not receive).

Your best course of action would be to make the game in private and release it only when it's finished. This would be best to do as a "leak" but you would probably be safe to just release on your website or something so long as you haven't had any contact from the copyright holders.

Seems like it would be a waste of time. Use Zelda sprites while developing and then replace the graphics before you release. That way you can start working on it today (not having to deal with art) and be able to make money off of it when it's complete.

Think of the guy that made AM2R. Spent ten years of his life on it and now can't even offer the game for download on his own web site.

You could get sued. IIRC, Nintendo even DMCA'd popular YouTube videos of Super Mario World hacks around the time they released Mario Maker on the Wii U.

>>4070658
Small fish. You could get sued, but you won't.
I doubt you'd even get a C&D unless it gets serious attention.

>>4070706

how much does a sprite has to change to not be in violation?

>>4070723
Unrecognizable, I guess.

>>4070658

Just become invisible on the net. Nobody will ever find you.

>>4070658
OP if you're working on a fan game do what Pokémon Uranium edition did and don't publicise it until its done, that way there's zero chance of you getting cracked down on before its release killing your project!!!

>>4070723
You should clear the sprite and remake am entirely new one and do not use another character as a reference.

You can't just use the engine either and change sprites, the engine is their ip too and someone will figure it out if your game is at all popular.

Just use unity or something, it's more of a pain to reuse one of these thongs anyway.

>>4070723
>how much does a sprite has to change to not be in violation?

Just enough where you could claim it's a homage. You could keep the basic shapes and proportions, change the colors and shading, and add a few bells and whistles.

If you turned it into 8-bit graphics (basically remove shading), you probably would need to do even less artistic work.

As long as you replace Link into a completely different character.

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>>4070658
>posts a game map
>on a sprite website
There are separate sites for that.

That particular image digs up memories when I used to try making game maker fangames.

1) You'd go bankrupt trying to fight them in court whether they have grounds to sue you or not
2) They have grounds to sue you on the basis that using their assets could give the impression that it's an official product of their company thus damaging their reputation with your shitty game

These "fan games" are retarded, anyways. If you have that much free time, make your own assets from scratch, sell the game, and make a little money.

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>>4070723
>>4070754

Okay, here's an example of "stealing" sprite-work in a way that you wouldn't get sued. Took like 15 minutes.

>>4070825
>using the same engine
>using the same level layout

Just fucking leave.

If you are thinking the thought 'how can I change this enough to get away with it' you in the wrong mental universe to be doing creative work, even if you want to call it an 'homage'

>>4070658
It depends where you are in the world. Shitholes like Europe don't have very good IP laws for example. But the have thought police laws you have to worry about instead.

>>4070851
>Just fucking leave.
>If you are thinking the thought 'how can I change this enough to get away with it' you in the wrong mental universe to be doing creative work, even if you want to call it an 'homage'

Artists steal all the time. The only reason you would have a problem with this is because you know the source material. You saw the "before" picture.

The OP (probably) wants to make a game, not fine art.

>>4070658
Yeah, it happened to Another Metroid 2 Remake. Prolly cause its better than Nintendo's Metroid 2 remake.

>>4070723
>>4070825

Legally "10%" different.

Yeah, you interpert that.

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>>4070892

>>4070678
Wish there were more anons like you instead of assblasted autists that don't understand business.

>>4070897

80's were kind of a different time, we're talking about today. Giana sisters would be crushed if it tried to release with it's original aesthetic in 2017

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>>4070915
It just depends how good of a job you do concealing your references. Ideally, you would want to remix from different sources.

There are so many games on the iTunes store that are blatant copies of other games or traced/modified sprites and they don't get in trouble. Especially if the game is technically released for free.

I'm sure I could find a couple more examples on Steam, if I looked hard enough.

>>4070668
>epresentative from the franchise holder to ASK if said use of their sprites is agreed upon and to send you a written and signed confirmation that it is, just to be on the safe side.
this is a bad idea
not only reaching a representative will just get you a NO, but it will also nullify any possible denial of knowledge in the future for crying lenience idk...
and in the very least, will get you C&D before even posting a zip in your blog for people to download it.

perhaps even if you do a pre request using made up credentials, you'll still alert them to be on the look out for any release on the web.

when in doubt, do it and apalogize later.

it goes without saying that you should register blogs and upload your shit in a minimal anonymous opsec, like not using google or microsoft blogs and emails... or just it whatever way as long as youre registering everything from SCRATCH via webcafe/library, this includes registering the email you'll use to register freeblogs and uploadsites accounts, and you never log in from home. you should be fine, copyright holders can easily obtain the final IPs (even thru simpler webproxies) to get your name, but no fbi agent will subpoena security cams and sort thru videos of different log dates to get to you, so you could easily ignore C&D for a few months as domains and blogs get shutdown on the source and keep moving to new ones.

>>4070907
Thanks.

I get it though. I only started learning this shit when I started my own businesses. They don't teach this in school and most people just work normal ass jobs so they aren't forced to think about it.

That said, I wish cats took the time to learn things before they acted like they knew what they were talking about.

>>4070885
They didn't get sued
>>4070851
Art is like 90% appropriation tho...


OP just make your damn game and release it when it's done.

>>4070658
Yes, you're using copyrighted material.

Don't waste your time. Make your own assets. Make your own game.

>>4070658
>Can you be legally pursued for using copyrighted sprites on a non-profit project?

Yes, they can shut those down. They are the property of the company, and they can use them as they see fit.

>>4070678
>Their fear is that kids making fan games will devalue or alter the perception of their intellectual property.
There's a big site dedicated to Mario fangaming and it's never been touched by Nintendo. It's been around for at least a decade. I remember it even has a full remake of Mario 1 using custom graphics somewhere on it.

>>4070658
Will you get sued? No. These big game companies arent going to waste their time, money and resources to sue a basement dweller making a fan made game.

Their lawyers will however issue a Cease and Desist Order and site a list of the Companies IP Assests you have stolen to create your game. I dont know why it took so long for them to do it to AM2R... the guy was open about it for 10 years and they let him release it before the C&D.

So, you can be brave and try that. Or, be smart and make it in the dark and release the game when its 100% done.

>>4071515
Or be smarter and just make some fucking original assets.

Yes. Even for fan games, stealing assets is technically illegal, and Nintendo is especially anal about it. Your options are

>make the entire game in secret, and quit after 6 months because of how demoralizing it is to make a game when nobody cares about it. You'll have about a month to distribute it before Nintendo sends out a C&D
>make a "spiritual successor" that's basically Zelda with the serial numbers filed off, which you'll legally be able to sell. But it'll give everyone who plays it that deep spiritual emptiness that normally comes from eating off brand cereal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR5xGHPUEew

>>4071520
Lets be honest, hes going to steal the assests anyways and have all these big plans to make his game and hes never going to finish it. Its best he keeps his shit in the dark.

>>4070935
>> If I could give you an example on Steam it'd probably be 8BitBoy. Even if it was cheap as dirt it still felt like badly done clone of Super Mario Bros. 1 except almost every enemy was changed into a bird and shooting blows. Worst part of it all was that I still had fun with it for a while.

It's definitely true that developers can still get away with a lot but I guess most people don't buy those games for their originality but precisely because they remind them of Nintendo or Sega games. Some of them are good though.

>>4070723
Terraria still looks like FF battle sprites and they must be fine considering all the merchandising.

>>4071542
Looks like != the same.

I want to make flappy beard he flaps to between the openings and he's a simple game to play with new found rpg leveling system building stronger flappy beards for tougher openings

>>4071315
well maybe they should be reported

>>4070723
it has to be made from scratch, otherwise you're just breaking the copyright once again
it can look similar but not the same
take inspiration, not pixels

>>4070668
>give credit to everyone
This literally makes no difference you stupid faggot. Do you think an IP holder is going to say, "well, he was nice enough to credit us so I guess we're cool with him infringing on our property"? This is about as stupid as people who write "no copyright infringement was intended" as they procede to upload albums of copyrighted music on youtube. As if it somehow protects you from any legal recourse.

>>4070678
>Your best course of action would be to make the game in private and release it only when it's finished. This would be best to do as a "leak" but you would probably be safe to just release on your website or something so long as you haven't had any contact from the copyright holders.
This would ensure that the game was released but it wouldn't actually cover your ass against legal action - they can still sue you if they wanted to.

C&Ds are actually optional and the company playing nice - they can go straight to ruining your life if they wanted to.

>>4071821
I can see Nintendo doing this soon too.

Like really fans, stop fucking with our shit, it's not fun anymore, look this kid owes us a million dollars.

>>4071821
If you cant figure out how to release something anonymously... find someone who can. If your desire is just to get the product out there with no praise you can do it.

release it anonymously

>>4070658
>Can you be legally pursued for using copyrighted sprites on a non-profit project?
Yes.

No company is going to sue a free fan game for damages. That's terrible PR, they won't get any money, and so there's no reason to do it.

The worst you'll get is a takedown notice. But 99.99% you won't have to go to court, or pay any money, as long as you take it down when they tell you to.

Why not just make the game with your own characters and art though?

>>4070658
If its nintendo, youll get a C&D letter. What you can do is keep the game to yourself and release it once its complete and itll end up on the net forever in a finished state.

>>4070658

Just take a couple hours open up gimp or even paint and modify them all slightly, even just mess with the hues with batch processing, or whatever. You should be fine.

You don't need to rip of IP to make a great game - it does help word of mouth though.

>>4070851
>If you are thinking the thought 'how can I change this enough to get away with it' you in the wrong mental universe to be doing creative work, even if you want to call it an 'homage'

What if you want to do something genuinely original, but don't have the time to create every single asset or learn how to compose etc., because you're an adult with a full time job. Say you come up with a great game mechanic and are an excellent programmer, but don't know shit about art, and no art fags want to help you because maybe you lack charisma?

Do you just throw up your hands and quit? Do you buy packs of re-packaged art (many of which are modifications anyway)?

Sorry, I'm a web developer and have a real hard time with this line of thinking.

>>4071821
It doesn't prevent you of course but it is unlikely.

At that point, the only point of suing you would be to make money which I'm sure most fan devs don't have.

But of course, be as safe as possible.

>>4074506
>Just take a couple hours open up gimp or even paint and modify them all slightly, even just mess with the hues with batch processing, or whatever.
That isn't enough to avoid getting sued.

What if I released a copyright infringing game anonymously instead of bringing so much attention to myself? It's not like these are made for profit so I don't see why it's necessary to get credit.

>>4070664
What is "IP" exactly? I keep hearing a lot about it recently when it comes to copyright.

>>4074648
The address of your computer in a network.
Google it you piece of shit.

"Fair Use" is the legal concept at work but the reality is that certainly if you're even flirting with testing the law big corporations can and will send you a C&D order that gives you a chance to just stop or risk being faced with the next step of having to choose between paying a settlement offer or getting eaten alive by lawyers, theirs or yours.

The ultimate answer is to release all your work truly anonymously if you're not actually trying to get anything out of it. You can always put in a bunch of super secret easter eggs if you ever want to prove privately that you made it.

>>4074648
Intellectual property.

>>4074685
Thanks.

>>4070851
>using the same level layout
it's a comparison image, dipshit

>>4074647
You could do that and not fear getting sued. Your shit might get taken down, but places like 4chan and reddit will still share it through mega if its decent. Its still easy to find that Streets of Rage trilogy and the Metriod 2 remake.

>>4070658
Yes. 18+ summer.

>>4071847
Yeah, no
Like, if there was actually something to gain from it? They'd totally go for it
but someone who spends years of their life working on a small fangame generally doesn't have the money to make a the lawsuit and ensuing PR nightmare worth it at all, that's why they stick to CnD's

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>>4070915
The hell? It was crushed back then too, you oaf

>>4070885
>Oh no they're making a Metroid 2 remake, just like us!
>It's probably better than ours, that's why we should shut it down, out of pure spite!
Yeah it's not like they want that sweet sweet dosh, obviously they jelly

>>4070658
The answer, unequivocally, is yes. You need to do what some other anons have said and replace every single asset with one of your own making.

t. IP fag

>>4074531
Actually, the point of suing fan devs doesn't stem from the possibility of making money, it's more to do with protecting their brand. That's why there's a case even if no money is being made on the fan game. In fact, a company is obligated to pursue such actions because it otherwise sets a precedent of them not enforcing their IP rights, which could later be used against them. They know it isn't worth their time to pay their lawyers for all that mess, though, which is why they often only send C&D letters at first, because they then minimally meet their legal duties.

>>4070658
unless you're ripping it from a nintendo game, then no. No company in their right mind would legally pursue someone using their 20 year old copyrighted material for non-profit.

If you are using it from a nintendo game though you might as well scrap your project now before you get bombarded with C&D letters 90% into development.

>>4070668
>>4071628
"Giving credit" actually makes things much worse, because you have then acknowledged on the record that it is not your property. It's called willful infringement, which results in enhanced damages more or less automatically by law.

I wonder how Nintendo finds out about these releases

If it wasn't reported on news aggregators like kotaku or whatever, do they have people looking at 4chan and reddit and stuff? Do they watch for trends and if Metroid is suddenly trending they dive in and figure out why?

>>4078087
That's trademarks, not copyrights.

>>4078113
You're right.

>>4074517
You use placeholder assets to test your gameplay and hire an artist or yes, use art packs. If they are reused from other assets, you can show you due diligence in buying the pack and expecting a legal product and can tell them to go sue the artist.

>>4070658
The only times I remember fangames being C&D'd where when they were remakes of official games, like Streets of Rage Remake, Another Metroid 2 Remake or that Chrono Trigger in 3D. I have never seen it happen to any original fangame, with new levels, story or whatever.

>>4079484
They'll go after anything with stolen assets in it.

>>4079484
Crimsom Echoes was a brand new sequel and got C and D.

Basically, all you have to do is alter sprites and not hold a press-release talking about your fan-made game as soon as you start work on it.

That's what really killed AM2R and Pokemon Uranium. Had they just released it NOT in the same sales window of a new game in the actual series and quietly instead of making a big deal about it, Nintendo wouldn't have noticed.

>>4082621
So spend a lot of time and effort and play in the corner by yourself like the developers originally intended?

>>4077553
Why not both?

What baffles me is that instead of hiring the guy or semi-endorsing the thing and releasing it properly, something both Sega and even fucking Capcom have done with fangames, they go ding dong bannu and make everyone butthurt about it. It would be to easy to spin it into positive PR and yet they prefer to do that.

>>4070658
You cannot get sued if you dont put your name on it

>>4083676
That's only true if you upload it on TOR or something.

>>4082621
>and quietly instead of making a big deal about it
Everyone likes their e-peen to get wanked because believe or not humans like to see that their work is being appreciated by others. It's perfectly normal. Except when you've metaphorically, figuratively and literally chopped your e-peen and also became Buddha and shed away all your desires no one will spend years working on a fangame/fan-remake/etc without telling a single soul ever and the day it's finished make a single thread on /v/ about it and never go back to check if someone even replied to the thread or if there was even a single download.

Besides, getting C&D by Nintendo nowadays is piss-easy publicity for yourself and you will end up gaining both fame and pity-points as the poor but hardworking indie developer being bullied by the big bad evil corporation. Look at the guy who was totally not making it for that but because he REALLY wanted to make it BoW 2D demake as a prime example of that.

Muh work and muh passion is the reward? My ass it is. Do you think that anyone who has put his very soul into a product will tell you he's happy that no one knows about it? Of course not. Everyone wants the things they like, and the things they've made, to be recognized by others.

>>4083682
Will the cyberpolice backtrace me?

>>407464
>>4083720
Nice to see you seem to be smarter than most of the pussies and morons posting in here.

Good luck with whatever you'll be working on.

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>>4078087
>In fact, a company is obligated to pursue such actions because it otherwise sets a precedent of them not enforcing their IP rights, which could later be used against them.
This is why the copyright system needs an overhaul. I know it won't happen, though.

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>>4082621
>Pokémon Prism probably would've gotten a real official release if they hadn't made a trailer with 1M+ views, did interviews on sites like Shitaku, and streamed the whole game on Twitch Plays Pokémon months before release
>they could've kept working on the game to add the planned extra content like the Battle Frontier

>>4070658
As long as your project doesn't catch much fame for its own good like AM2R, Pokémon Uranium and Pokémon Prism you'll be fine. It goes without saying, but DO NOT. start to promote your project everywhere, at best do so in some specialized Fangame Forum until you have completed it.

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>>4074651

>>4070738
You're getting into romhacking now. No romhack has ever been C&D'd or taken down.

>>4086479
Crimsom Echoes was.

>>4070803
>) They have grounds to sue you on the basis that using their assets could give the impression that it's an official product of their company thus damaging their reputation with your shitty game
Not even that. It's literally that you are using their IP without permission, whether it's good quality or not

>>4070935
> using Eversion as an example
So did you never play this? Because it uses that aesthetic against you.

>>4071515
>I dont know why it took so long for them to do it to AM2R... the guy was open about it for 10 years and they let him release it before the C&D.
> and they let him release it
That's why, anon. They saw it, they saw it looked good, and they kept quiet about it so people could get it after it was released. Yes, it's gone from his official website, but it's out there if you want to play it.

Either that, or they just weren't aware of it or assumed it would die off eventually (the very name itself implies there were many other Metroid 2 remake fan projects that failed before) and when it was released, it got relatively mainstream gaming press coverage, so they hit it with the C&D hammer

>>4074517
You make it with whatever shit you can make. Portal started as a game called Narbacular Drop with PS1 1994 tier graphics. Then Valve bought the entire team and gave them an art team.

>>4078090
There are plenty of Chrono Trigger sequels/fangames/remakes that got C&D'd

>>4085219
75+ years after the death of the original author. And Disney will lobby to extend it soon too, Steamboat Willie is about to fall into public domain

>>4086479
>No romhack has ever been C&D'd
Pokémon Prism was

>>4070658
You can do whatever you want and post it on a random torrent tracker and just let it spread. No company can do anything about it and no company will bother trying to track you down.

If you want to claim ownership though then yes, you will get be destroyed.

>>4086479
Pokémon Prism and Project M says "Hi".

>>4087485
Project M was removed from the internet purposely by its creators. NoA nor Sora sent any kind of C&D's or DMCA's documents.

>>4087552
Granted, it wasn't explicitly canceled becaus e of a C&D, I just thought so. But it WAS canceled due to fear for legal actions being taken by Nintendo, and it's obviously noteworthy that it got quite the fame, just like AM2R, Pokémon Uranium and Pokémon Prism.

>>4087552

It wasn't "removed from the internet" because you can just upload torrent to the piratebay. What actually happened is that the creators were a bunch of fags who knew they had nothing worthwhile, so found some excuse to give up their project. If they had made anything interesting would just upload to tpb where no one can touch it

I am fairly certain you can get a cease and desist, which means "stop making/advertising it or you we will take you to court" like what happened with Chrono Trigger 3D and AM2R. But if you complete a game and release it on the internet, then even if you get a C&D, once it's on the internet then anyone can just upload it anywhere.