HI its me Rinoa

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Hi its me crono

>>4064454
So was Ultimecia future Rinoa or what?

>>4064918

Yes and no.

>>4064454
No, you're a retard.

>wooooow i'm being persecuted because I'm a sorceress even though I haven't done anything, this is bullshit, bugged persecution mechanics
>I'm going to go back in time and be a shitter and do exactly what people were persecuting me for, that'll show them all!

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Hi its me Dr Wily

It was all a dream squall died at the end of disc 1 during the assassination of ultemecia

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>>4064471
hi its me magus

>>4064982
>I can't connect the dots. I must be the smart one.

>>4064918
>>4064924
>>4065028
No to all of this. How many times does this nonsense have to be debunked? Somehow all the Aeris resurrection crap got left behind in the age of the internet, but the FF8 rumors keep going strong.

>>4065157
Let's see the proof, facts only

>>4065162
That's not how it works. You're the one trying to prove Squall is dead / Rinoa is Ultimecia. It's your claim, offer evidence for it.

>>4065182
>I got nothing
ok

>>4065182
We see giant icicles pierce his body but the next day he's fine? No not buying it and the weird as fuck ending too

hey its me ur brother

>>4065005
kekkek.

>>4064918
Well, Ultimicia was more like the name of the sorceress herself, almost the like the name of a demon. Ultimicia could possess and junction. Rinoa among others such as Adel and Sis (or whatever) were all possessed.

Time in FF is all a paradox, just be fascinated by it and let your imagination go. Rinoa, future ultimicia, i dunno, FF8 is a time loop.

>>4064471

This is not Crono nor is it even hinted him as such.

>>4065046

This guy was legitimately, originally planned to be Magus.

>>4065285
So the Ultimecia we fight against is like the possessed body of Rinoa from a different time or timeline, trippy

>>4065325
i don't think we ever actually fight rhino. i know Rinoa gets junctioned to adel (poor girl). Rinoa also gets possessed, but i can't recall a point in time where we fight Rinoa. During the final boss fight against ultimicia on disc 4, Rinoa is on our team, so we are just fighting the Ultimicia in her rawest magical carnation.

Thoughts?

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>2017
>people are STILL trying to talk for the R=U theory

You guys REALLY need to let this thing go, I mean we have already wasted more than a fucking decade talking about this bullshit. The fact is that Ultimecia is Rinoa's foil in similar manner Seifer is to Squall and that is all there is to it no matter how much you try to grasp straws towards your precious fanwank theory.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197343-final-fantasy-viii/faqs/34215
What I want everyone who still tries to talk for the R=U theory to do is to go to above link, ctrl+f [UR1] and read the full analysis there. It is written by the exact same people who originally came up/popularized the theory in early 2000s so does it give the theory more than a fair shake but eventually comes to the conclusion that none of it holds up in the end.

>>4065182
From the FF8 Japanese Ultimania Guide which includes interviews with key staff members:

>U: Another thing that was not explained [during the game] was how Squall survived the attack by Sorceress during the parade. Will that be addressed in any other material?
>S: That is a good question [laughs]. Who is to say he survived?
>U: So Squall did not survive?
>S: I am not sure how much I am allowed to say without getting in trouble. From our perspective Squall's story ends at disk 1. From there it is about other [characters] trying to change the past. I cant not say much more.
>U: It sounds like the story is much more complex than previous Final Fantasy games.
>S: Yes. You could say that. With Final Fantasy 8 we wanted to craft a story that would require multiple plays to fully understand. I will say the ending is the key to fully understanding Squall's fate.

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>>4064454
yo wwhy did she have a fucking dog bow? i never understood this in FF8

>>4066190
You never used a dog launcher? My doggo loves to be shot at random people.

>>4066189
>I will say the ending is the key to fully understanding Squall's fate.
Doesn't he just walk around in this corrupted reality until he's brought back? It's interesting to notice the end cutscene on the dance floor only has Squall in the back with Rinoa. Perhaps he is only there in a state of her memory as she is looking into the moon. However I think the reason they made it implicit whether or not Squall exists after Disc 1 is because that is when the game falls apart in terms of quality. They could've just used that as an excuse to explain everything afterwards.

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I know this is a wasted effort but I'm actually going to take a shot at explaining the ending:

As Squall and co. defeats Ultimecia's final form time/space continuum begins unkompressing/returning to normal. The group decides to think about Edea's orphanage and each other in order to end up there using the same retarded logic that allowed them to exist and end up there during the time compression. Squall being a loner that still has some trust issues (and due to things Ultimecia says during the later stages of the fight against her) ends up thinking about himself/his past and due to this ends up in Edea's orphanage in the past. Meanwhile Ultimecia figures that if she manages to follow Squall there and is able to kill both his present and past forms she'd still win as this would prevent Squall's existence and the whole destined SeeD from past that appears out of nowhere to kill me thing. Events where we see Ultimecia being too weak to carry her plan out and ending up giving her powers to Edea in past and Squall then giving Edea ideas about SeeD and Gardens. These events set forward the time-loop where FFVIII's events take place.

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>>4066528
As for the acid trip that Squall now goes to it's literally a slower version of the "erased from existence" thing that happens if you let your characters being KO'd too long while fighting Ultimecia. It happens because Squall isn't at the correct place in the time/space continuum (although he kinda needs to be there in order to keep the time-loop going on) while the time/space flow is well on it's way of returning to normal. Now we need to remember that at this moment Squall has both Alzheimer's from GF usage and is slowly being erased from existence. Former is the reason why Squall has trouble remembering Rinoa despite his attempts to do so (which is demonstrated by the blurry images of her we see) and the latter is the reason behind the "no face Squall" we see. The incorrect memory of Rinoa dying in space is due to combination of the two and a visual symbolization of Squall basically giving up and/or being lost in the time/space continuum. However since the game requires a "happy" ending Rinoa calls Squall back with *sigh* power of love (symbolized with the white feather thing) and Squall manages to return to his correct place due to this.

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Hi its me Sanic

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Hi its me Solid Snake

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>>4065005
Hi its me Dr. Wily

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HI it's-a me Mario

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Hi its me Simon Belmont.

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Yo it's Spyro The Dragon.

>>4066542
>>4066551
>>4066597
>>4066863

You kids are not very good at this.

>>4066542
That's Knuckles, you dumbo.

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>>4064454
Hi it's me, Electric Man

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Hi it's me, Cut Man

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Hi it's me, Rock Man

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>>4066935
Hi, it's me Bass

>>4066870
those posts are just as dumb as OP's, so I'd say they're quite good at this

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>>4066940
Hi it's me, Roll

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hello its me Pac-Man, no irony here, its just me

>>4066189
Literally none of that was in there.

>>4067025
Fuck off, queermo. I read Katana and hiranaga Japanese fluently. I read the Ultimania book myself.
I am a level 100 Japanese reader. I could destroy you with only a fraction of my power.
Just because you can't read at such a high level as I, doesn't mean you should be sad. Look to me as an inspiration. While you will never reach my levels, you can always improve and stop being such a faget.
Earigato, senpai.

>>4067058
>lying-kun spergs out

>>4066928
I still have no idea how Square didn't get their asses sued off for this.

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Hi its me Goku

>>4065162
Game's plot wouldn't make a lick of sense if Rinoa was Ultimecia. The whole time loop is a result of Ultimecia reacting to the prophecy that the SeeD would kill her. Except at the end of the timeloop you learn that Ultimecia herself wrote the prophecy after you defeat her at the end of the game and she goes back in time to bestow her powers on Edea. Remember Seifer torturing you and demanding to know what SeeD is and why they're after the Sorceress?

Rinoa already knows all this. She doesn't need anyone interrogating the players to know what SeeD is about, she's part of them. And she also was there to know that if she doesn't speak that prophecy that ultimately the timeloop is never created and she's never destroyed.

The whole plot of the game unravels the second you assume Ultimecia knows what Rinoa knows.

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>>4065162
Alright then:

Ultimecia doesn't have or even know about Griever until she literally Draws it out from Squall mind.

Sorceresses aren't immortal and can die from old age. Here is a quote from the ultimania:
>A Witch’s lifespan is the same as a normal human’s, however they cannot die until they have passed on their power to the next Witch.
Also don't forget that you go around killing dozen sorceresses during the game and do remember how Adel was hellbent on finding successor for herself.

Speaking of sorceresses you kill during the game remember these ones you fight while traveling to Ultimecia's time through time compression? In order for R=U to work Rinoa needs to be the last/only sorceress left but the fact you see these sorceress while traveling from present to future alone destroys any possibility of R=U being anyway plausible as it >implies there are at least 11 sorceresses between the prevent time and future.

Also is it just me or does the idea of Rinoa forgetting everyone and everything due to GF usage and then wanting to compress time in order to be with Squall again make no sense to begin with as at best it would leave "Rinoamecia" in a situation where she roughly remembers she used to have a boyfriend but not Squall as a person in similar way we see Squall remembering having a "sis" but not Ellone as a person?

>>4067450
The premise only works if you accept Rinoa loses her memories, forgets, or has her mind corrupted by her powers. Since GF use is directly said to destroy your memory it's not unreasonable to say when she gained a ton of magic her memory eventually got wiped.

>>4066528
>>4066529
Wow. I'm not bashing you but compared to Chrono Trigger, this time travel plot is needlessly complex and basically relies on a literal paradox in order to sustain itself, not to mention the other signs of relatively bad writing like the love deus ex machina feather thing. I never knew how bad this game's plot was until now really.

>>4068342
It's almost like the plot wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

>>4068360
Protip: FFVIII is an (un?)intentional parody of JRPGs, a genre filled with games that tend to have pants on retarded plots in them to begin with.

>>4068342
Since you mentioned it, CT is probably one of the only time travel stories done right since they kept it super simple.

Then Cross came around and introduced the multiverse concept and made everything 2deep4u

>>4066108
If you read the whole document, a lot of what's said is usually proceeded by "if we presume things are like this" and other indecisive commentary. They aren't sure themselves, though I don't know how that is with how sure they act about it in other parts.
At the end of the day, it's a theory that we won't see proven or disproven in all likelihood. The closest we'll likely get is the interview excerpt posted below. Unfortunately we'll probably see this copypasta another 10,000 times in an attempt to get people to stop talking about things the poster doesn't agree with. If you don't agree with the theory, that's perfectly fine, but expecting people to take that document as some end all point is clearly fruitless.

>>4066189
Expertly written. Sounds just like an interview with an appearance-focused Japanese dev would go. Would've been cool if this was real.

>>4068391
Source on that parody statement?

>>4068969
None.

>>4068564
Assuming you mean this interview:
>>4066189

That literally is just made-up rubbish.

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>2017
>still thinking that Rinoa is Ultimecia

Everyone should know that Zell = Ultimecia by now:

Out of constant frustration with the cafeteria being always out of hotdogs, Zell eventually starts to hate Garden and all of SeeD. So he plots his revenge. He starts of by killing Rinoa in order to inherit her sorceress powers. And we all know that sorceress powers changes your body, so in the same way that Adel's body became masculine, Zell's turned feminine. The tattoo on his face slowly changes to the markings on Ultimecia's, and ever so slowly, Zell became Ultimecia. Zell, as he demonstrates in The Deep Sea Research Facility, has knowledge of machinery, so he works Adel's seal in order to preserve himself till the future. His past GF usage causes him to forget that he was ever Zell, which is why Ultimecia asks you to reflect on your childhood, because he doesn't remember his. Find in-game contradictions that proves that Zell doesn't become Ultimecia. This would also explain why he made Seifer his knight as Edea, to get back at the years of picking on him. Make him a servant.

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>>4069132
>This would also explain why he made Seifer his knight as Edea, to get back at the years of picking on him. Make him a servant.

>>4068360
It's meant to be taken more seriously than Chrono Trigger at the very least.

>>4067115
Sued by who, Nintendo? That's clearly Ganondorf.

>>4067058
>
You literally just folded that quote over in Google Translate over 1000 times, it's the strongest translation ever much better than European interviews.

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hi its me cloud

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hi its me girl cloud

>>4069812
this made me remember how about 10 years there used to circulate a GIF showing how FFVII AC Cloud and FFXIII Lightning had the same exact face

jap devs pushing their gay agenda once again

Why was Payne ever a character?

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>>4069812
hi it's me squall cloud and tidus

>>4064918
The original writers said no, so officially no.

But only retards give a shit about "canon". It's literally shitting all over everything that's made literature great for thousands of years.

If it makes the story more interesting to you or gives it meaning, then you can believe whatever you want. The intentions of the original authors are irrelevant.

>>4069836
>The original writers said no, so officially no.

These madeup statement without citations aren't funny anymore. Take the hint

>>4069829
Ironically enough he was most similar to Zidane.

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Hi its me Link

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Hi its me Metroid

>>4069836
>forcing your own meaning on a work that specifically wasn't what the creator intended
Weaponized autism.

>>4070183
>The author's views outside of the work should be counted as what the work REALLY is.

Shit nigga, really? If Steinbeck came out and said The Grapes of Wrath was about his old car, that wouldn't make it true.

>>4070170
Nice try queermo, but the robot's name in Metroid wasn't metroid, his name was Samus.

>>4070183
>forcing your own meaning on a work that specifically wasn't what the creator intended
It's called "death of the author", try it sometime desu.

>>4070170
>>4070149
I think these retro inspired memes are harder to make stick.

>>4067450
Rinoa used GF's, and they make you lose your memory.

Ultimecia used at least one GF (Griever), so she also lost memories from her past. She could've just forgot all of that or have a prettty vague memory of it, which, by the way, would explain why she needs to go back in time so bad. She can't remember herself.

I have my own pet theory:
>SQUAL IS GRIEVER

>>4069132
Go be retarded somewhere else

>>4069829
he looks exactly like my boss' wife.

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>>4071089
>Ultimecia used at least one GF (Griever)
>SQUAL IS GRIEVER

Ultimecia does NOT have or even know about Griever before literally drawing it out from Squall's mind. Take a look at the scan of Griever and do take attention to the "in Squall's mind" part.

To add to this here is what the ultimania guide says about griever:
>Legendary lion praised as the king of beasts The animal called a lion doesn't exist in this world beyond the imagination. This aloof figure is attractive to Squall, featured on his Gunblade and accessories, and firmly locked in the foundation of his mind. The witch Ultimecia materializes Griever as a G.F., pulled from an image in Squall's mind, and utilizes him in battle.

Also Ultimecia 's ability to read peoples minds is also demonstrated during the fight against her when she takes your magics and GFs away from you and her ability to give life to inanimate objects is demonstrated during disc 1 when she gives life to the Iguana statues.

Finally here is something people often seem to forget: sorceresses don't need GFs in order to use magic and it's stated that their innate magic abilities are stronger than the GF dependent para-magic SeeDs from Balamb Garden use. We however do see Ultimecia kreating Griever out of Squall mind which >implies that sorceresses are able to create GFs.

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>>4071092
The point of that Z=U theory was to show how unconvincing R=U theory really is and I knew some autistic retard would completely miss the point.

As a bullshit bonus here is another one:
Ultimecia is a cheeseburger and she wanted to compress time to prevent herself from rotting, growing mold, or any other such things that happen to uneaten cheeseburgers which are subject to the passage of time. And of course, she'd want to get rid of all other beings in the universe seeing as they could potentially eat her.

Using >>4069836's logic I'm going to say this is the absolute truth and no matter how much you look there isn't any in-game contradictions to this either.

>>4065237
>We see giant icicles pierce his body but the next day he's fine?

Curaga.

>>4071095
>wife

>>4065237
>We see giant icicles pierce his body but the next day he's fine?
>his body

He got hit around the arm/shoulder. Not vital organs.

>>4071395
Cure3 you mean

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>>4065237
When Edea spears Squall through the chest she deliberately hits him in the right side (take a good look at the pic), this is to keep him alive, left chest = dead, center = risking hitting his heart or cutting off trachea. Now at the time Edea is being possessed by Ultimecia who in turn knows about the prophesy of "legendary SeeDs" from past killing her. But she doesn't know which SeeD's. Because of this "Edeamecia" wants to interrogate Squall to find out more about SeeD and the Garden. She needs to find the people who will stop her reign as Sorceress and kill them. Squall and co. are purposely imprisoned kept alive for this. The reason why they interrogate Squall instead of Quistis or Zell is because the interrogation is done by Seifer as "Edeamecia" is busy organizing the missile strikes against the Gardens. Seifer has a grudge against Squall and personally wants to interrogate him because of this. Also Seifer clearly says that he wanted to start with Squall because he "liked" him so much. This is why Squall's life is spared and why he is interrogated by Seifer or at least my view of it.

Also you have to remember that your entire party gets shot, stabbed, electrocuted, set on fire and frozen in blocks of ice to name just a few of the things that happen to them on a daily basis. Since no normal human could survive all this, it's now clear to me that they are all zombies. Or androids. Or anthropomorphic personifications. Wait, does this mean that Ultimecia is a hero as she is trying to destroy all SeeDs in order to save the world from this menace. Is this a theory we can all be happy with?

>>4071813
Someone who fucking gets it. Aside from that last paragraph in which you just babble about nothing.

This first paragraph explains the plot for this scenario and completely debunks that stupid as shit 'hurr squall is dead' theory.

>>4071046
is any form of a joke now a meme, geez

THey are all dead. FF died after 6

>>4071126
>The animal called a lion doesn't exist in this world beyond the imagination.

With all the crazy shit in FFVIII I find it weird that lions are some famous fictional creature. Maybe it's just because we have lions in our world but lions just seem too mundane to me for that. It'd be like if your world was populated by dragons, UFOs, bigfeet, chupacabra, etc and then the big famous fake animal is just a plain ol' dog or something.

>cats and dogs
>chimeras, wolves, and magic alien cats
>monkeys and mountain apes

nah no lions though

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I just took a good, long while to think about the plausibility of R=U and did my best to see it from the R=Utards point of view but I just don't see it working out:

Let's start with the premise that after the events we play through Rinoa is the only sorceress left in the world and is in happy relationship with Squall while enjoying protection from SeeDs/Garden because of that. The first problem comes with the idea that Rinoa outlives Squall all her other friends. We have no guarantee or a reason to take this as a fact. First of all even with the protection of Squall/SeeDs who is to say there wouldn't be some guy that took the idea of fighting against sorceress up to a degree he tries and succeeds in killing Rinoa? What if this guy was paired up with some jealous "potential sorceress" who wants to inherit Rinoa's sorceress powers? Also think about how quick Rinoa was in giving up on Seifer in favor of Squall and didn't even attempt to get back with him after learning he was still alive. Rinoa could drop Squall in favor of some other gunblade-user just as quickly if things don't work out between them?

But let's just say that doesn't happen and Rinoa lives a happy quit live where nothing goes wrong either to her or her friends until they start dying from old age. Again we have no reason to assume Rinoa automatically outlives her loved ones since it's stated in the Final Fantasy VIII Ultimania that sorceresses can indeed die from old age. But for the sake of argument let's say that the sorceress powers make you immune to aging or notably prolongs your live.

Now if we go with the former Rinoa can simply live for "many generations" with no problem assuming she survives against all threads against her but if we go with aging slower it still isn't enough to live for "many generations" and if sorceresses' lifespan indeed is the same as a normal human’s we need to have Rinoa sealed up in that thing Adel was sealed in either voluntarily or by force.

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>>4072440
Now while cryo-containment is a thing in FFVIII's world Adel was only there for 17 years at most. This gives yet another scenario where simply must assume that the seal thing works perfectly for "many generations" and that no one gets the idea of releasing Rinoa from the seal and succeeding in it during that time.

However Rinoa MUST be freed from the perfectly working and heavily guarded cryo-containment seal after "many generations" have passed for R=U theory to hold up from now on. How exactly is this going to happen? For sake of argument let's take a superman sized leap of faith here and say that the next Lunar Cry just happens to hit the seal, take it from space to earth along with the moon monsters and the seal conveniently breaks/opens up as it hits the ground and Rinoa survived all of this without a single scar.

Now regardless of how we got to this point we now have Rinoa alive in the distant future that alone is a looooong stretch. Anyway what about the state of Rinoa's memory at this point? Let think about Squall and Ellone for a while. While Squall losing Ellone at very young age that contributes to him not remembering her that well he only roughly remembered having a 'sis' but not Ellone as a person after using GFs only for a short while. Now what if Rinoa used GFs for few decades (in case she got sealed up) or for "many generations" (in case she was just able to live that long)? At this point she wouldn't remember a damn thing completely destroying the idea of her wanting to compress time in order to be with Squall again. But for the sake of argument let's just say that by some miracle she remembers Squall and just enough other concepts or let's just say that Rinoa never used GFs after the events we play through. After all the idea that sorceresses don't necessarily need GFs in to use magic seems valid.

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>>4072445
Now there is the problem of Rinoa always having been VERY dependent on other people helping her from the moment we met her. Think about it she is a rich girl who grew up in wealthy family, at Timber she had her squad helping her and afterwards Squall and co. literally did everything for her. But again let's just say Rinoa has "manned up" and has learned to take care of herself.

This still leaves her alone in a world that literally has an entire organization of trained mercenaries who only exist in order to kill sorceresses who are actively looking for the potential rise of Ultimecia that they are more than aware of and have been preparing for all this time. But again let's take a superman sized leap of faith here and say that Rinoa manages to fight and win against the future SeeDs on her own. Also if we assumed that Rinoa just was able to live for generations earlier on that leaves this required survival aspect even harder to swallow.

Even if all of above just happens to go along with the R=U theory "Rinoamecia" still needs to obtain Junction Machine Ellone and to come with the concept of and motivation for he time kompression. Either of these are a very tall order for someone who has basically lost her memory and at best roughly remembers that she used to have a boyfriend but both of them? Not going to happen and someone in this state wouldn't even remember what JME is or even know what to do with it.

But even if we assume she somehow does all that despite her amnesia, suddenly remembers everything or somehow has managed to remember everything all along there STILL are many problems with what she does during the events we play through:
For example why does she leave her past self to die in space? Very bad idea that could easily backfire.
>B-but she remembers that she got saved at that time!
If her memory is that good why did she just walk past the person she was trying to find all along just few minutes before?

I didn't read half of your shit, but could we assume Sorceresses being natural magic users and without need of a true Junction form canonically, would they at all suffer from the memory loss normies get from the use?

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>>4072440
>>4072445
>>4072451
tl;dr

Putting way too much thought into this. This is not some sort of cryptic story. Japanese are just legitimately awful at writing fiction. Its like they assume they don't have to make any sense since its all fantasy to begin with.

>>4072475
You not liking it doesn't automatically equate to it being bad. Personally, I thought the continuous themes of free will versus predestination and the way they had multiple layers come together to form the perfect retrocasuality loop was extremely well written.