70s-90s Retro Computer General Anonymous

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>>4011423
was about time

>>4011423
I haven't seen a thread in ages.

>>4011426
Kek.

>>4011436
those joysticks are fucking sweet

>>4011436
Looks cozy.

>>4011423
You guys are probably smart.

Is it true that consoles in the 90's where more powerful then PCs?
Also are games like Quake meant to be played and look better in unfiltered software rendering?

>>4011438
Competition Pro is the best.

Where do you guys find old computers?
How do find out the proper prices and not get ripped off?

>>4011440
Considering id developed glQuake, I presume they intended for you to enjoy the game however your system could support.

>>4011476
I agree, but most people would say that's not an argument.

>>4011483
Why not?

>>4011440
PCs had more raw power. eg: The 100MHz MIPS processor in the N64 had performance comparable to a 66-75MHz original Pentium, yet it was released concurrent with 233MHz Klamath Pentium II processors. By mid-1996 even a hobo build PC would have a 133MHz Pentium.

On the other hand PCs had no game-oriented coprocessing dedicated to things like 3D or handling sprites, since they're general-purpose computers and not actually designed for gaming.

For instance when the PS/N64 came out 3D graphics accelerators in PCs weren't really a thing yet, so PCs had to do it all in software which is much less efficient.

And then the 3Dfx and Nvidia cards came out and consoles got shat upon on both fronts.

>>4011440
>Also are games like Quake meant to be played and look better in unfiltered software rendering?

Software rendered looks like ass. The only reason early 3D PC games have software rendering at all is because virtually no one you're trying to sell games to had 3D accelerators.

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My roommate dug up his old Apple 2c. Was amused to see you could plug it into the TV for color display.

What hot new games should I pick up for this bad boy?

>>4012010
Have fun!

http://asciiexpress.net/gameserver/

>>4011764
>yet it was released concurrent with 233MHz Klamath Pentium II processors. By mid-1996 even a hobo build PC would have a 133MHz Pentium.
That was the year after.

>>4012017

Forgive my ignorance, but how is it possible to play digital files on this thing?

>>4012039
The IIC didn't' have a tape input? I can't remember

>>4012050
then it needs this http://adtpro.sourceforge.net/

Why do Americans like Apple so much? They were always rubbish.

>>4012069
Apple what? The Apple II's?
They are great though.

t. yuropoor

>>4012081
They aren't.

>>4012084
How come? For a microcomputer made in the late 70's they where awesome. What are better alternatives? Commodore 64 didn't exist yet.
Do you own one?

>>4012104
Not really. They were not standing out, especially at that price point, in the 70s. Just a slightly beefed up TI machine.

>>4012116
>They were not standing out
There wasn't really a market for micros to stand out at the time.
Yet they have a huge software library for a machine from that time.

>>4012104
>>4012081
I would rather have a 8B Atari computer for gaems

>>4012069
>They were always rubbish.
at the time? not really
nowadays? why do you even /retro/ if you think they are rubbish now

>>4012183
Why not both? I'm not a fanboy of just a particular platform.

Stop talking about hardware you fucking faggots, this is /vr/ and we talk about games

>>4012220

And also we talk about hardware

>>4012206
Apple 2 has a shitty palette and I really hate the sound

>>4012292
>not using the monochrome monitor
pleb

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I want to learn BASIC but I'm afraid that will stun me in my learning of serious programming. Also how different are the BASIC dialect between them? How hard is to go from the BASIC of one machine to another?

>>4011423
>This is the autism containment thread to keep retro threads on other places like /g/ and proper /vr/ computer threads clean.
Nice.
>>4012315
There's nothing wrong with learning basic. If you're not dumb enough to understand that there are different concept of programming languages, then you have nothing to fear.

>>4012339
>>This is the autism containment thread to keep retro threads on other places like /g/ and proper /vr/ computer threads clean.
it's sarcasm though

>>4012010
>Was amused to see you could plug it into the TV for color display.
Heh, I ended up doing the opposite at my cousin's house in Trinidad -- they had an old Apple II monitor lying around, and I used it as a B/W monitor to play Ape Escape with my cousins while my parents and the older family members watched TV in the living room.

>>4012303
>wanting less color
doggy eyes

>>4012740
>he doesn't know how sharp monochrome phosphor screens are
enjoy your blurry mess

>>4012028
233MHz PII: May 1996
N64: June 1996 (Sept, if you're talking US)

>>4011764
>On the other hand PCs had no game-oriented coprocessing dedicated to things like 3D or handling sprites
What about Floating Point Units and MMX?
3D for graphics work was way bigger than games at the time.

>>4012116
>>4012183
The Atari 400 and TI-99/4 were released two years later, though.

>>4013010
>3D for graphics work was way bigger than games at the time.

For one thing professional 3D prioritizes accuracy over speed. This is why pro workstation cards today can't beat consumer gaming cards in terms of gaming framerate despite being much more expensive.

Things like MMX instructions and FPU help but they're still not the same thing as dedicated game hardware.

>>4012315
The basics (lolpun) are the same. Syntax may differ slightly but the real difference is the built-in commands available on each platform.

>>4013038
Just don't say that they didn't have any, because even a FPU could mean the difference between 6 and 60 FPS.
>PCs had no game-oriented coprocessing dedicated to things like 3D

GPUs are irrelevant when both had those too.

>>4013053
A PC CPU's FPU or math co-processor is not game-oriented and not dedicated to 3D. It's general-purpose. Additionally their graphics cards were little more than frame buffers with a rasterizer. They had no sprite/collision hardware, and no built-in 3D capability before accelerators were introduced. Hell, PCs never really did sprites in hardware even after gaming cards became a thing. They still relied on brute force for that.

>>4012116
>They were not standing out, especially at that price point, in the 70s. Just a slightly beefed up TI machine.

At what price point and when? You can't really compare the launch A2 at $1.2K to a TI that didn't even exist yet.

Also the TI had better specs on launch in 1979, especially the processor (3MHz vs 1), but it also cost $1.2K while the A2 had come down in price and had its RAM beefed up across the catalog.

>>4013053
>because even a FPU could mean the difference between 6 and 60 FPS.

Quake requires an FPU to even function so it's the difference from zero in that case. Adding a copro for a game like Doom that can run without one increases performance fractionally as it starts using it for raycasting and such but it's certainly not up by an order of magnitude.

For that sort of performance boost you need specialized hardware and for your software to target that hardware. Enter: OpenGL and Glide accelerator cards.

>>4013120
Try Descent

>>4013038
>For one thing professional 3D prioritizes accuracy over speed. This is why pro workstation cards today can't beat consumer gaming cards in terms of gaming framerate despite being much more expensive.
That's because todays cards are double precision with ECC, that wasn't always the case, the expense comes mostly from the market they are targeted at, most consumer GPUs have the options in hardware for their professional counterparts but they are just disabled in hardware or ROM.

>>4013038
>dedicated game hardware
What is the dedicated game hardware you speak about? There are no "game processors" except CPUs with instructions and floating units or GPUs with hardware graphics acceleration, before that just graphics chips and chipsets that did sprites and planes in hardware instead software, sound chips and DMA, but no "game processor". All that PCs had and console chipsets could contain, rest was a matter of how those things where put together and what software they ran.

>>4013193
>What is the dedicated game hardware you speak about?
>What is a Voodoo card

>>4012315
Go to the library and check out a book on BASIC. You might fare better at a college library, as public libraries might be inclined to clear out their old stuff.

The core commands are for the most part the same across different platforms, Usually it's the stuff that affects direct screen output, sound, or system calls that will vary. Imagine you're on a teletype terminal (which is where it was originally used when you think about it.) If a command works there, it'll probably work on any variant of BASIC.

>>4013208
>What is a Voodoo card
a GPU

>>4013193
>What is the dedicated game hardware you speak about?

mid 90s consoles had a generic cpu, a specialized chip to use for T&L, hardware polygon rasterizers, and multiple hardware pcm sound channels. Playstations also had full hardware video decoding.

PCs did everything on their CPU, pure brute force onto one framebuffer and one sound channel. Until the GUS and the Voodoo, then the Geforce. Beyond that they had partial video acceleration on some cards, but not full.

the fucking Amiga had more specialized gaming hardware than the PC, until the Voodoo.

>>4013193
N64 for example has the RCP which is purpose-built for 3D game graphics. The output is quick & dirty compared pro 3D but this allowed it to run in realtime at a reasonable price point.

>>4013214
Household PCs didn't have those in 1996. Consequently games didn't target them and did everything in software instead.

>>4013208
>>4013215

The voodoo2 is actually a really good example of game-specific hardware. The color depth, dithering and resolution limits would be laughable for professional 3D work but that's exactly what it needed to do to push 30-60 frames in gaming. Also T-buffer for reasonable depth perception without something like anaglyph.

>>4013215
>a specialized chip to use for T&L, hardware polygon rasterizers, and multiple hardware pcm sound channels.
>>4013220
>N64 for example has the RCP which is purpose-built for 3D game graphics.
Those chips are nothing special, not a "gaming processor", they are literally just parts of what latter where inside GPUs or heavy duty floating point units, it's the software that made them do what they did.

>Household PCs didn't have those in 1996.
As I stated, I wasn't talking about "when PCs got GPUs" if you would have read the post. I was pointing out that the "special" "gaming processors" where nothing special.

>>4013235
>they are literally just parts of what latter where inside GPUs or heavy duty floating point units

All GPUs are not created equal. I don't know why this is so difficult for you to comprehend.

N64 as an example again has incredibly shitty antialiasing baked right into the hardware. Objects practically pulsate in motion or during camera movement as vertices can't maintain accurate angles. A professional card would never do this for quality, but the RCP has to if it's going to hide its jagged edges and low poly count. Here's what it looks like if you employ hacks to disable the AA on the RCP (normally you can't even by choice): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csgtihnp75c

All these factors are in the chip specifically to optimize it for gaming. This is what makes it gaming hardware.

>>4013235
Would you take a plastic Thrustmaster joystick and use it to fly a real jet? It and a military stick do the same thing, after all. Yet one of them is "gaming" hardware while the other isn't.

>>4013256
>All GPUs are not created equal. I don't know why this is so difficult for you to comprehend.
But that's up to the design of the chip or the software it utilizes. I don't know why this is so difficult for you to comprehend.

>>4013259
What's the equivalent of the real stick against the plastic joystick in the "gaming processor" argument?

>>4012010
You put the handle of the IIc downwards if you mount it under the monitor like that, so the keyboard is at an angle and properly balanced.

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>>4013287
>But that's up to the design of the chip

holy fucking shit, stop talking about hardware you morons, I haven't seen single game related discussion yet, stop this shit or go to /g/

>>4013324
I see that this thread hasn't only become the autism but also the redditard conteinment thread too.

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>>4013365
What's the best billiard game on a retro computer?
Extra points if it plays carom.

>>4013396
It sure as hell isn't 3D pool.

>>4011423
Why are these threads always such a shitposting fest.

>>4012010
Moar! Share moar!

>>4014125
Videogames attract autists
Computers attract autists
Nostalgia attract autists
Its a cocktail of shitposting

>>4014380
they also attract hipsters

>>4014125
Console vs PC and faggots that can't into /g/

>>4014568
Console vs PC is a gaymer thing and not technology

>>4014602
It is when they argue tech specs they don't even understand

I guess it's soon time to make a proper /retro/ thread on /g/ again, at least it isn't as autistic as the ones here.

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>>4011423
I uploaded this pictures a few days ago to this site, it is an Amiga 1200,

This has been my very much loved computer for the past twenty years, it was created I believe in 1995 if I recall correctly, and everything still works on it. It is not the oldest computer I own, but the one I value most, the oldest would be a Apple IIc which I picked up about a year ago.

In the picture you may notice I am browsing the web, I do so through a wireless PCMCIA card, and an outdated web browser, it still does well enough for goofing around and finding information. Besides browsing the web, I have the ability to stream music in a win amp like application, along with the capacity to play Doom ][ and dozens of amiga games. I also have GCC installed, and am slowly learning how to use the libraries specific to the OS (workbench 3.1) to create my own applications.

It has a 68040 CPU, which is not the standard, I purchased an expansion card many years ago, which allowed for such an upgrade, as well as a slot for a 32mb simm. It performs exceptionally well, for it’s age, I would say it performs as well as a 486, although the screen mode is not stellar, I get just under 800x600 with a palette of 256 colors, which alongside with dithering gives an overall decent experience when browsing the web for such an older computer.

As soon as it becomes available, I will upgrade it once again to a newer FPGA based CPU, which is looking incredibly promising, once I have done that, it is going to get a lot more use than it already gets.

This little beast is going to be my main computer next week, I am going to forgo my PC.. It is not going to be such a drastic transition, it does more than enough to keep me entertained, and the game selection is fantastic, alongside of having many games that play multiplayer it is certain to give me some good times.

>>4015391
>it was created I believe in 1995
1992

>>4015458
I meant this particular one, there is a date stamped inside of the case.

>>4015391
>>4015462
MOAR COMMODORE PORN

ALSO WHAT ARE YOU DRINKING

>>4015467
That was a rum and coke, right now I am drinking a sodastream mix. Mountain Dew / Orange Soda, it sort of tastes like LiveWire, good stuffs.

>>4015391
>>4015471
God damn it, it's all cool and I want to say something nice, but man that setup hurts.

>shitty LCD
>rum and coke out of a beer jug
>messy desk and cables
>all that dirt

I've got a bunch of old Micro Computers sitting around recommend me some games for the following:
>TRS-80 Model 4
>Atari 800
>TI-99/4A
>Macintosh SE
>Sinclair ZX81
>Tandy 1000RL
Also is there any way to Jury-rig a hard drive into a Tandy 100 RL?

>>4015656
It's okay, I'm not a very organized person. I actually like things a little messy, and I tend to bend the rules a lot. Rum and coke in a beer mug doesn't bother me, cables not being tied together in an orderly fashion, meh. I know it bothers some people a lot, and I get it - my mother is an absolute clean freak, I think after being raised in that household, seeing how much it ruled her life, I decided to go in another direction.

To me, things are meant to be used and enjoyed, perfection is never achievable and leaving a good impression on others is never a goal I have in mind.

I'm not the sort of person who looks for the perfect monitor to match my computers, the perfect chair to match my desk, and so on, it just doesn't really matter to me, you know?

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>>4015391
Sweet setup anon!

I hope I am posting this in the right thread.

I'm curious to read the stories of people who had a computer prior to the 90's. Like, what caused your parent(s) (or you if you're that old and on 4chan. holy shit) to make that kind purchase when not everyone was quite on board with personal computers being a 'sure thing' yet?

I asked my dad about this sort of thing and he said the reason he bought our first computer in the 80's was a combination of three things:

1. He felt it was pretty obvious it was/would be the way of the future (this was also his reasoning for why he got us on the internet via things like Compuserv and Prodigy as early as 1987)

2. It was finally affordable/worth making the investment in, in his opinion

3. As he put it, he had the "computers are cool bug" since he was in high school during the 70's thanks to his uncle who worked at IBM

>>4015758
My older brother (Way older, almost 15 years) owned several computers when I was small.
I basically can't remember a world without computers, he would give me hes old ones as I grew up and teach me, like dial-up, usenet, BBSs.

How he got into it? Pure interest.
This was the late-80's/early-90's though.

>>4015729
Thanks dude, I like your setup as well.

>>4015758
My dad got a TRS-80 CoCo so that he could dial into the mainframe on campus and do programming homework. He later got an Atari ST for MIDI.

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>>4015686
Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves on the Atari 800
It's great; my whole family played it

>>4016924
Holy shit 8-bit Atari graphics are awful for the time for microcomputers.

>>4015686
Pics pls

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>>4012315
Don't learn Basic. Learn Pascal with Delphi and make some Windows 3.x/9x/NT games along the way.

>>4017892
I'd say starting with a C64/Apple II and BASIC and either a Z80 or 8086/88 (or both in a V20) for x86 ASM are pretty good starting points.
That's how we started learning back in the day anyways.

>>4017901
I partially disagree. Asm is fine, but don't start with an unstructured higher-level language like old Fortran or Basic. Pick a language that does not lean on line numbers and GOTO. If you want to learn on a more interesting platform than old x86, pick AMOS or BlitzBasic for the Amiga. It'll teach you timeless practices like properly structuring your code. Really, non-PC 16-bit/32-bit home computers have a ton of interesting structured programming languages, many with a user-friendly dev environment.

If you just want to learn Basic on a modern PC, by the way, the Windows versions of Blitz{Basic,3D,Max} no longer cost any money and are open source. They all come with a moderately fancy code editor and a high-quality manual. Blitz3D is especially fun because you can start playing with 3D graphics with little effort, though it has its problems on modern hardware and Windows. It's ideal if you have a circa 2000 machine with a Direct3D 7-compatible graphics card.

>>4017967
If you have no experience it's good to start with a less structured language. It's much more user friendly.
The whole point is to have a less structured language to begin with and slowly go to more complex structures.

>>4018010
This wasn't my experience, at least. I had used unstructured Basic for stuff like plotting and loading games, but it took Pascal for me to begin to understand and enjoy programming. (This isn't to say that Basic is inherently bad. Something like QBasic where you get blocks and don't have to use line numbers would have probably been fine, too.)
>less structured
I am not sure we're on the same page here, since by "structured programming" I mean nothing more than blocks and functions. By that definition a language can't really be "less structured"; you either have blocks or you don't.

As for the point of non-structured Basic with line numbers, remember that it was designed the way it was for the computer's, not the user's, sake. It's easier to write a small compiler or interpreter that way.

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Thoughts on OS/2, /gr/?

>>4019328
My father was gung-ho about that at the time.
I only remember running Windows programs on it tho.

>>4019328
OS/2 was baller, but then 95 came out and crushed it.

Anyone know where I could get an apple 2e? I bought one from my school years ago and I miss that thing so much.

>>4019804
So was Howard Stern, out of all people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PErQUubZCs

>>4019842
US? Try Craig's List (cheaper) and eBay.

>>4019842
Get a IIgs

>>4020082
Canada I'll try craigslist. I don't think I can afford ebay prices plus the apple 2 was fucking heavy so it would cost a fortune to ship

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>>4011423
My uncle gifted me a truckload of Atari 8-Bit stuff, including an 800XL, 130XE, an Indus GT, a pair of 1050s, a Hayes 1200 baud modem, and a metric ton of different joysticks.
Both machines have had mod work done to them. The 130XE has a switchable firmware for true backwards compatibility. One of the 1050s has a write protect switch and a couple of homemade game discs that I'm sure were made on it.

What's /vr/'s preferred method for writing floppies? I was thinking about building a full tower 486 machine with an amalgamation of drives so that it would be possible to write 360k 3.5" discs, DD 5.25", etc.

>>4020750
are there no floppy emulators or sc card adapters that work atari 8 bit machines? That would propably be the easiest way unless you are going for a more authentic feel

>>4020750
I have a C2D XP machine essentially just for this. 5.25 floppy on the on-board controller and an LS-120 drive to handle 3.5s and its own disks. HD-DVD and BD-ROM drives. Multi-card reader with IDE and SATA interfaces so I don't have to open the case to access old drives. Also a parallel Zip hooked up.

Considering splashing out for a Kryoflux, although 5.25s are normally very reliable and the LS-120 has been very successful at reading floppies a standard 3.5 chokes on.

>>4020902
I could, but I figured building a proper floppy machine would be beneficial in the long run.
However, I was going to get a scsi2sd or scsi2cf and the 50 to 34 pin adapter cable for my Mac portable, because fuck 34 pin scsi. I have to rebuild the battery as well as replace some caps before it's set.

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Hot or not?

>>4021681
Not

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>>4021681
IMO, it's a mixed bag.
- PowerPC = hot
- puck mouse = not
- USB 1.1 and Wi-Fi in 1999 + Firewire = hot
- CRT quality = not
and the clamshell design is somewhere in the middle.

Personally, my favorite Apple portables are the trackball PowerBooks. At the time they looked like something out of an '80s cyberpunk anime.

>>4021681
For playing Marathon and older 68k titles? Sure.

>>4021731
>- CRT quality = not
Love it how the old 68k Macintosh monitors where Trinitrons, of which I own several, while they switched over to shitty shadow-mask CRTs latter on.

A pretty thoughtful take on the classic flamewar subject of the Z80 vs. the 6502: http://www.luke.maurits.id.au/blog/post/on-choosing-the-z80-over-the-6502.html

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Anyone into retro computer for reasons other than games?
What reasons?

>>4023227
x86 is boring and full of legacy cruft.

>>4023227
I personally like the challenge of trying to accomplish a multitude of things, on my computer that was released 25 years ago. Setting up web browsing, email, getting ported games to run on it, etc. I would liken it to modeling, it is just something that keeps my mind focused, and I get a sense of enjoyment out of it all.

In general I enjoy doing the same with my PC, but it has become incredibly easy to get a computer setup, even in linux, at the same time it is also easy to get distracted by any of multitude of windows I have opened.

Think of it like camping, I guess, it is sort of like roughing it but not really. After the end of this month, I’m putting this PC in the closet for June, and focusing solely on my Amiga, the only other device I will be using is my cellphone. To me, the prospect of doing so is exciting, it is like roughing it in the digital age. I’ll have my old computer, connected to the Internet, and anything I want to do is going to require a bit of extra work to setup correctly.

There is a certain satisfaction in it all. Something a lot of people don’t understand, because, I can do everything I want to do on this computer. Why bother going through the trouble of doing it on an older computer, if for nothing else but the entertainment I find in it all.

My Amiga has no inherent properties that would make it better than a modern PC, in fact my cell phone is faster.

>>4023412
>Think of it like camping, I guess, it is sort of like roughing it but not really.
Good analogy

How are you going to browse the Web, though? Do you have a PowerPC card?

>>4023424
No PowerPC card, I do have an older 68040 accelerator though, that combined with an older browser it does fairly well, of course, due to the age of the browser some pages will not load at all, and most do not display the pages correctly due to newer CSS formatting.

The thing is, using such an older browser does not put much of a strain on the entire system, and I do fairly well even with a limited 32mb of ram. I do have a newer browser, that does support CSS and HTML 5, the pages look right, but it hogs the entire system down and depletes the memory in no time, which usually crashes the system, so I don’t use it often.

That all said, I can even browse 4chan on my Amiga, I just can’t view the site in catalog mode and I can’t reply to threads.

To connect to my router, I go through a PCMCIA wireless card. I get about 80kbps, although I think it should get up to 400, more than likely I have not setup the wireless card correctly.

>>4023227
I rarely play games on them. They are computers, you do with them what you do with computers. They do anything their hardware allows as long as you know how to make them do it.

>>4023818
That doesn't answer the question. What do you do with them?

>>4023828
That's literally the answer, the only constraints are the hardware, your skill and imagination.
They are computers, just that a fixed sum of years has passed does not change that.

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>>4022402
>flamewar subject of the Z80 vs. the 6502
Why not both?

>>4023838
>the only constraints are the hardware, your skill and imagination
It's a pretty boring and vague Zombo.com-style answer when you could have given an interesting one by talking about something in particular. For instance, today "doing what you do with computers" generally means having your computer hooked up to the Internet. Do you have your, say, Atari ST hooked up to the Internet? That's interesting. No Internet, but you do your monthly budget on a Macintosh Plus? Tell us about it. Are your old computers just expensive paperweights as they are for far too many people who buy them? Well, that's a bummer, and that's what your reply suggests.

>>4023867
>Do you have your, say, Atari ST hooked up to the Internet? That's interesting. No Internet, but you do your monthly budget on a Macintosh Plus?
But that's far from interesting because that's literally what everybody does.

Are there any resources on the IBM 5150? Pulled it out of my great grandparents place years ago when they died and when I powered it on the boot line didn't appear. It's sat around for a while, dunno if it's worth trying to do anything with.

>>4015729
That desktop is aesthetically pleasing.

>>4023828
deving on and for old platforms is enjoyable, although I'm not good in the slightest

>>4019328
it fucking sucks and I hate it
hated warp 4 a little less than warp 3, but it's still a right pain

even if OS/2 Warp 4 had actual driver support, and then actual software support, there are plenty of reasons to not want to use it (at least, not over NT)

>>4023412
>cellphone
hopefully for calls only

a modern phone is surprisingly easy to use as a main computer these days, with a handful of annoying gaps in software
like, I can even just sit down and build C++ programs on my phone nowadays

>>4012315
I'm seconding >>4017892.

if you're dead set on BASIC, Visual Basic exists -- it's known to suck for a myriad of reasons (and early versions were slow bytecode), but it's super duper easy, anyone can pick up Visual Basic in a few days and write a smallish application that works
protip: if you want sound effects, read up on mmsystem.dll (windows 3.1) and how to call dll functions, it's not hard and lets you get your feet a little wet with more advanced stuff

line number basic is piss easy and if you're doing super-tiny programs (like, around a hundred lines or so), there's no real worry about being stunted -- doing remotely large programs in line number basic is agony and you end up with some really gnarly ideas of how to lay code out which will likely stunt you later on
switching dialects isn't hard, but it's annoying, mostly due to fairly wild featureset differences, particularly when dealing with graphics and sound (eg, going from Microsoft BASIC on an IBM PC or MSX which has fairly easy graphics support, to C64 BASIC, which demands loads of low-level programming to get anything other than text on screen)

>>4026062
It's only 16 colours though

>>4026157
I am not a big fan 8-bit BASIC for the reasons already mentioned, but I think MSX's is probably the best one. Okay, maybe tied with the Spectrum 128K's.

>>4026616
>but I think MSX's is probably the best one
let me guess, MSX because you're a weeb? it's obviously not even as good a BASIC and lacks many calls and functions a lot of others have

>>4026616
>MSX
Fuck no.
>Spectrum 128K
Maybe.

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>>4021681

>>4026157
>hopefully for calls only

I’m going to be using it for music, taking pictures, and uploading to my web page since there is no way I can upload to it other than through a web browser. All of the actual work will take place on the Amiga though.

Mostly everything can be done on my Amiga though, so it will not be a difficult endeavor, I would love to see someone actually try this with an even older computer, it would be a lot of fun to read about. Imagine someone only using a 286 for a month, or an Apple II – that would be a challenge!

As it is, I had a word processor opened last night that is actually fairly decent, I had a browser with 8 tabs open, I had a c64 emulator running in the background, and I also had a paint program open, while ftping to my cellphone and uploading a screenshot. Mind you, a lot of these programs were running at the same time, and I still had ram to spare. For such an older computer, it certainly does a lot, enough to make this month go by fairly nicely.. although, I can’t post to 4chan so there will be no updates here.

It is easy enough to stay away from the cellphone, I much prefer the tactile feel of a real keyboard, and mouse. Touch screens, are great for phones – but I never really liked them

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Is there a similar image for 8-bit platforms?

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Powermac 5500/225
ppc 225mhz
92meg ram
3 Gb Hd
24x cdrom
ethernet card
OS 8.5

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Relatively new to PowerMac gaming, wanting to discover what I've been potentially missing out on having been a DOS/Win95 kid

pic related, been fucking around with ports of other games with varying levels of success

>>4027689
Prepare to be disappointed with ports.
>>4027663
It's 225mhz and wont run duke3d worth a shit.

>>4027715
any original games i should look out for?

>>4027723
Older dos ports run okay.
Doom
Warcraft
X-wing
Sam and Max


Most of the Mac's software was educational titles and with the heavy use in schools in the US that's mostly what you'll find used.
Number/Word/Trivia Munchers
Mathblasters
Carmen Sandiego

Which Mac you have will determine what runs well. A few of the pre-G3 could be set up with a 3dfx voodoo card, making games like quake and the like a must. The all-in-ones are just weird. Apple focused on internet and multi-media with them and the result is a machine that can be down-right retarded at times. (After Dark 4.0: Crashes. Free screen saver from Gorillaz Album: Works perfectly)
My 5500 has trouble with classic mac games (I think it's an OS 8 issue).

Must have apps:
Sound app 68k
Graphics Converter

>>4027571
What the X68000 used by animators? I also do not understand FM Towns' market. Please explain.

>>4028118
s/What/Was/

>>4028118
>What the X68000 used by animators?
don't know about Japan but in the west the Amiga was de facto for pixel art and animation

>>4027715
>It's 225mhz and wont run duke3d worth a shit.
What the fuck are you talking about, my 40MHz 68040 runs Duke3D more than playable framerates at low detail but full screen

>>4027761
Why are you recommending ports instead of actual Macintosh games like the Marathon series?

>>4027723
Marathon series

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>>4027571
>you can see how tech illiterate weeb tards make fun of western computers they have no clue about
I'm in /vr/ alright, that image looked way different in /g/

>>4027571
is that supposed to be PC on the left?
If so, the games section is inaccurate as shit, the video image need to be CGA/EGA/VGA, and the Sound Chip section should be an Adlib, Soundblaster 2.0, and a Roland MT-32.

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Today I learned you can do this

Seems obvious in retrospect

>>4028476
>is that supposed to be PC on the left?
That cracked me up so good, topkek

>>4028487
Are you >>4012010 ?

How's it going with the Apple IIc?
Also yes, it's a comfy monochrome composite CRT, works also with other monochrome machines and it's much better for 80 column mode then colour monitors.

>>4028487
Be careful about burn-in with a bright picture like this.

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>>4027571
>16-bit
Yup, this is made by a total tech illiterate, there's only one 16-bit machine in that picture.

>>4028517
Who cares

It's a old shitty monitor

>>4028463
That's what I'm talking about.
It SHOULD run great.
On pc I ran it on a 100mhz 486 dx smooth as butter.
On the 225mhz Mac I get about 15fps on low detail at 640x480

>>4028467
Haven't run marathon on it yet.
Unlike some Anons, I don't recommend shit I haven't tried.

>>4028561
You tried Duke3D but didn't try Marathon, on a Macintosh? What's wrong with you?

>>4027571
instead of posting a whole lot of 32-bit machines on a 16-bit chart, why don't you post actual 16-bit machines like the IIgs?

>>4026690
MSX BASIC is a fairly bog-standard Microsoft BASIC but with some nice sound+graphics functions adapted to the hardware, it's not that bad at all, unless you really hate MS BASIC
and a lot of people think of C64 BASIC when they think of 8-bit BASICs, and C64 BASIC sucks (it's a MS BASIC but missing loads of shit and absolutely not adapted to the hardware in the slightest)

>>4026740
>spectrum
lol
actually, it's totally fine, but fuck that machine

>>4027069
a 286 might be doable, although a total pain and possibly not fun, particularly if you attempted to get on the internet (you miiiight be able to do IRC comfortably, maybe)
an apple ii would probably just make you not use the computer for much other than games if it was your day-to-day machine

>>4021731
man, I'd love to have an old 68k era Powerbook, but getting stuff on/off it and then handling the battery situation (much of the appeal of a laptop is that it moves around, even if only within the house) are both going to be fucking pains

got loads of software and shit ready to go though

>>4028584
>C64 BASIC sucks (it's a MS BASIC but missing loads of shit and absolutely not adapted to the hardware in the slightest)
>using the default C64 basic
kek, it doesn't count what's default, it counts what it can run

>>4028587
>but getting stuff on/off it
How come? All of them have serial, latter ones have AAUI and some even have PCMCIA.

>then handling the battery situation
You replace the cells.

>>4028584
>it's a MS BASIC but missing loads of shit and absolutely not adapted to the hardware in the slightest
What? Last time I checked it could draw on the screen and makes sounds, by BASIC functions only found on the C64.

Stop spilling out bullshit everywhere.

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>>4028584
>MSX BASIC is a fairly bog-standard Microsoft BASIC but with some nice sound+graphics functions adapted to the hardware,
>because it's a weeb machine
>C64 BASIC sucks (it's a MS BASIC but missing loads of shit and absolutely not adapted to the hardware in the slightest)
>because I lied and it does but I just say it doesn't because muh weeb shit would look inferior

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>>4028598
>by BASIC functions only found on the C64.
Go ahead, tell me the BASIC commands for drawing to the screen or playing sound.
here's a hint: it's all POKEs, there's no graphics or sound commands, Commodore absolutely did not tailor the BASIC to the machine, and C64 BASIC is widely known for lacking loads of shit other machines had

http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/cbm/c64/c64prg.txt
here's a text copy of Commodore's own C64 programming guide, read the sections on graphics and sound
they're enlightening, assuming you're capable of thought

the post was in direct response to something like
>it's obviously not even as good a BASIC and lacks many calls and functions a lot of others have
while MSX BASIC has direct commands for accessing the PSG, manipulating sprites, drawing lines and circles, that sort of thing
doing any of that stuff on the C64 involves directly banging on the SID registers and poking at video memory, read the fucking manual

This isn't comparing machines (because the C64 has loads nicer hardware than an MSX1), but BASICs, and Commodore BASIC is lacking as hell.

>>4028602
is this bait

>>4028592
Why even bother using BASIC if you're not using the default one, then? You could be using a better programming language in that case.
The whole point of even using BASIC on a machine is that it's always available (eg, you can thus distribute programs written in a given machine's BASIC and they'll work out of the box on it).

>>4028642
>The whole point of even using BASIC on a machine is that it's always available
That's why you had cartridges that you left plugged in all the time, nobody loads floppies or tape with the default ROM, they would die waiting

>>4028602
>>>/vp/

>>4028489
Technically it's PC.

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>>4028476
It's the amiga, bra, look at the os

>>4028490

Yeah, that's me.

It's nice, though it's mostly my roommate who's using it. I was surprised at how crisp the image is.

>>4028517

I don't plan to do this on the regular

>>4029143
Technically it's a personal computer, more well known as a home microcomputer at the time. Unless you are a normie you know to only refer to IBM Compatibles as PCs.

>>4029158
>I was surprised at how crisp the image is.
Yeah, it only has to draw one dot for a monochrome pixel, instead of 3 dots for a colored pixel.

>>4026040
don't you have to put in a disc with DOS on it for the 5150?

>>4026040
Google. That's one of the machines with a lot of documentation.

If it's not worth for you give it away or sell it.

>>4030391
Yes. Unless it had a upgrade you most certainly do.

>>4030403
>If it's not worth for you give it away or sell it.
wow, how fucking helpful was that

>>4030563
>Wanting to enable hipster to destroy old hardware

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What's the best way to get older computer hardware outside of Ebay? I regularly visit Goodwills and flea markets but I've never actually come across any hardware, lots of games though.

>>4030617
>I regularly visit Goodwills and flea markets
Depends where you are.

Flea markets, garage sales if you get lucky are a good bet.
Local online sales sites if you have any, at least you should have Craigslist or related.
Recycling centers if you are a good talker.
Gatherings and events related to old hardware.
...or just being social and keeping an eye out all the time.

Ebay is the best place if you can afford it though.

>>4030619
>Depends on where you are.
Southeast Kentucky. I did stop by a yard-sale on my way home one day and came across a bunch of Nintendo and Atari games for like 5-10 bucks each but that isn't really my thing. Most of the time when I stop at those things anything computer related I find is usually "MADDEN FOOTBALL 2003 PC-CD".

>>4030628
Not so sure about the US, in Europe it's easy to find things on local online sales sites, every country has their own sales sites and stuff there is always much cheaper than on bit sites like eBay.

>>4030875
Kek, fail
gtfo

>>4030876
fuck you faggot

>>>/g/60629283

>>4030391
Guess I'm just a dipshit lel

I have no idea what's stock and all on it. I don't have it at my new house yet, so I can't crack it open and take pictures. Guess I'll figure out a way to get DOS onto it.
>>4030564
I have no intention of destroying it, just want to get it running, preferably at the optimal possible configuration for the machine, which might mean getting more shit for it. Honestly I think it would be neat to run some late 80's engineering programs on an old IBM for shits and giggles.

My 486 has expandable video memory and I thought it would be neat to actually install some, but it takes zig-zag inline packages which I can't find. Any ideas besides Ebay which I've searched to find a 128kb zip20 and 256kb/512kb zip40's? If not I'll probably just get a VLB video card.

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I'm sorry as I'm going to sound like a complete fucking idiot but I have a question.

I have mostly been a console gamer throughout my life and have decide I want to expand my options and look into pc gaming. I only have a shitty toaster so I decided I would start with older stuff. My question is where do you guys recommend downloading games? I have been using a website called oldpcgaming.com and downloads seem pretty slow. Does anyone here use this website? Are there better alternatives to use?

>>4031934
specific platform have their own sites with games to download
The c64 has c64 dot com
The speccy has world of spectrum
And so on, it all depends of what you're looking for

>>4031513
>If not I'll probably just get a VLB video card.
Probably the easiest.

>>4011426
>SHODAN

>>4031934
Google. There's no definitive site for everything, but you can find anything via Google.

>>4032449
Fuck, topkek

>>4031934
>pic related
wtf

>>4030880
How come the /g/ threads are always so much better?

>>4033578
they are not, they are a shitposting fest and happen rarely, there's not even a thread anymore

>>4033580
How come? Also yes, there is: >>>/g/60675596

>>4030617
You rob a museum

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You guys know anything about the controller in this pic?

>>4036651
cheap chink shit

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>tfw just missed out on pic related for £5 on gumtree

;_;

>>4036864
Fucking sucks anon

>>4037174
Apparently the fucking vultures have been picking through his stuff all afternoon and I can't get there til tomorrow...

Hold me anon. It hurts to live.

>>4037176
Done goofed m8, I would have loved the breadbox C64, just for the case alone

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I just heard about the cosmac elf/vip a couple of days ago
I'm amazed by how primitive it is yet it still can do some interesting stuff.
Any one here has used one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K75dwwBdjDc

>>4037179
Guess Lady Luck abandoned me after I got that BVM-20F1E for a tenner and Profeel 27" for a fiver earlier in the year.

I just wanted to make some chiptunes with it anyhow and he may still have some cool stuff which has been overlooked.

>>4038326
Nice!

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>>4036651
It's a Memorex VIS controller

Wise fwom youw gwave

>>4043130
Tnx, now we have to put up another week with this shitty thread.

>>4043143
You are very welcome.