What does /vr/ think of Working Designs localizations?

>>3995352
again?

It's a contentious topic to say the least, could be the next PSX debate since it has the implication of pitting oldfags vs youngfags. Back in the day the games WD localized wouldn't have been localized any other way but compared to modern translations and even fan translations they're pretty loose, dated and straight up silly. Add on top of that the moonfags who will feel anyone not playing in the original language are idiots and you've got quite an argument on your hands.

the dialogue is kind of entertaining at first but the "humor" generally overstays its welcome

>>3995343
>tfw PAL version of Shining Wisdom is free from Working Designs cancer

Feels good man

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I could go without dragon diamond poop jokes and all, but they were bringing out so much shit that never would have seen the light of day over here otherwise, and I have to thank them for that.

And to be honest, a lot of the less juvenile jokes made me laugh.

As did this juvenile one, for some reason.

Did any of the old WD people end up at companies like Xseed or NISA?

>>3995484

Hard to say

Xseed is basically the WD of the 2010s except without shit translations though

>>3995484
GaijinWorks is Vic's new company.

Awful proto-weeb humor. Butchered every game they touched by fucking with the balance. Vic sucks cock.

>>3995497
I thought Xseed was decent/good?

>>3995649
LEARN

TO

READ

JACKASS

>except without shit translations though
>except without shit translations though
>except without shit translations though
READ THAT^^^^^^^^^^ READ IT NOW READ READ READ BEFORE YOU POST AGAIN FUCK YOU'RE RETARDED

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>>3995649
well, sometimes they get a little offended about the games they translate.

>>3995649

Yeah, that's what I meant.

>>3995673

I don't really see that problem in the end product, though.

>That fuckstain encouraging inaccurate translation

Why do these people exist?

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Why is it that every English translator of Japanese media, especially video games, is a complete knobhead? How difficult is it to just translate a fucking video game? Don't cut anything out, don't put any of your stupid internet jokes or references in, just take the text, translate it, and make sure that it makes sense when you type it in. Why is that such an intense struggle for EVERY translator? What the hell is wrong with these people's heads?

>>3995698
Blame the idiots higher up who think they know their audience (they don't).

>>3995343
In translation studies, there's something called translator's invisibility. Basically, by virtue how what translators do, they shouldn't be noticed. They should just convey someone else's message in a fluid way, using that someone else's tone and emulating their speech idiosyncrasies to the best of their ability.

Slapping WORKING DESIGNS logos and copyrights everywhere while hiding the logos of the original developers and overtaking the text with situational jokes to "spice things up" is clearly the opposite of this principle.

Add to this Victor Ireland's propensity to try and sabotage games when he can't control them (the XSEED Lunar debacle), to childishly log on to forums and reply at lenght when anyone dares to say "mmm, I prefer the new translation" (neogaf, lunar forums), and, worst of all, to downright break games and reprogram them just because he feels like it (Exile II is virtually unplayable thanks to his bullshit), and you have the recipe for one of the worst publishing companies ever, which at best were decent enough and only by virtue of the games they chose to publish. Everything else always had the potential to be an unprofessional mess, sometimes all at once. And no, just "getting the games" is not "good enough" and it's not a justification to fuck things up so badly.

>>3995698
Soon your wish will be granted and you'll see emulators that digitize and machine translate foreign games in real time or close enough for RPGs. You can draw your own conclusions about the original author's subtle intent.

>>3995698
If you have to ask, then you'll never understand it, lad.

>>3995739
>machine translations of japanese
>good
>ever
>even in the future

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The GOAT

>>3995750
So you concede that the translators must always make interpretations about the japanese text's intent.

>>3995452
>I could go without dragon diamond poop jokes
Those are in the Japanese script too.

>>3995698
If it's so easy to translate a fucking video game, why are you complaining about it on the internet instead of doing it?

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>>3995818
Gee anon, I dunno, maybe because that's not my JOB?

>>3995698
Because it's a localization, not a translation, you knobhead. Nobody in the west gives a fuck about chingchong "culture".

Without them, we wouldn't have NIS or XSeed most likely.

>>3995871
Oh, so you don't even know how to translate but you still think you're in a position to tell people how it should be done?

>>3995936
He's just shitposting, report and hide

>>3995936
Yeah, as a matter of fact, I do.
>>3995895
>Nobody in the west gives a fuck about chingchong "culture".
People who buy Japanese games do.

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People will defend it or say that it's only revisionism that people care, but I can tell you first hand this shit made my blood boil when I came across it.

Credit where it's due, the new Star Dragon Tower theme was both great and fit the game, but most of Vic's changes sucked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85epYgHdpSM

>>3995960
>People who buy Japanese games do.

Japanese games are Japanese, so completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

>>3996014
He obviously meant people who buy games that come from Japan.

tryhard/10

>>3996024
Really? I thought he meant people who buy games from Tanzania.

>>3996037
That's because you suck at reading comprehension. Probably another casualty of the US school system.

>>3995698
Ego

Imagine if people excused a translator americanizing Murakami's work as a 'localization'. Laughable

>>3995698

I remember years back I used to buy bootleg anime DVD's from China with wacky-ass subtitles like "OMG it's a giant broom!" instead of gundam or something. Yet they still made more sense than many English localizations, at least it didn't give a character an alternative personality and I let the tone of their voice and character actions define them.

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>>3996056
>Imagine if people excused a translator americanizing Murakami's work as a 'localization'.
Seriously, could you imagine if any of Working Design's alterations were in any other medium? They would not only be fired before the work was released, but permanently blacklisted from the industry.

>>3995698
>>3995871
>>3996086
You can stop avatarfagging my child, it's against the rules

>>3996091
It's not avatarfagging if they're all different images, fucko.

>>3995809

Honestly?

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>>3996024
Oh you mean weebs

>muh honorifics
>muh nakama
>muh according to keikaku

Fuck off and go learn Japanese if you want Japanese games.

>>3996110
>Fuck off and go learn Japanese if you want Japanese games.
The entire point of a translation is that you don't have to know the language.

No, not knowing the language does not immediately mean that the translators get to dick around with the source material as much as they please.

>>3996127
Stop feeding the troll m8

>>3996137
But it's fun to fuck with him.

>>3996137
Well then he shouldn't be trolling in the first place.

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>>3996127
Too bad those games are LOCALIZED, not just translated.

>>3996137
>facts are trolling

it's like I'm really on /v/

>>3996151
>Too bad those games are LOCALIZED
That's what we're complaining about. They shouldn't be.

>>3996127
But if you didn't dick around with the source material then you would need to have an understanding of Japanese to understand what would essentially be broken, awkward English

>>3996159
>They shouldn't be

Yes they should be because Japanese culture is highly incompatible with the west.

>>3996161
Not if the material was translated properly, i.e. finding the best possible way to convey the words and their meaning from one language to the next. No other medium has this problem, and when alterations do occur they're always heavily shamed.
>>3996190
>Japanese culture is highly incompatible with the west.
Irrelevant. So is Chinese culture, but we've had peer-approved translation of their most valuable texts for years.

>>3995343
>This thread again
They're shit, no matter how many times you make this threads, they were and still will be shit.
>>3995497
>except without shit translations though
Except their "translations" are just as bad and they also add stuff that wasn't in the original games, see the chest messages in the Kiseki series.
>>3995698
Because they're not translators, they're localizers, you need to realize this simple truth.
There's no such thing as translations in videogames, there's localizations.

The great cultural divide between videogames and other mediums is that, videogames are still not recognized as proper cultural media so they get localized, worse yet, 99% of localizers are failed translators who think they know better than the creators and have the right to butcher a work in order to "convey" a "message" properly to an audience, they're basically people who'd get laughed at and fired if they'd dare pull that shit in the book industry.
To make matters even worse, the general audience doesn't care nor has the instruments to properly judge the works of these hacks, most creators are also entirely unconcerned with what people other than their original audience thinks as long as they get money, so they get away with it, there's only a handful of directors that check localization, like Kojimbo, and even in his case it's pretty evident he doesn't care that much anymore.

tl;dr: The industry is a shitty place, you probably knew that already but let me reiterate.

>>3996215
>Because they're not translators, they're localizers, you need to realize this simple truth.
All of that may be, but that doesn't exempt them from criticism.

>>3995673
That guy isn't an XSEED employee nor a translator. He's Carpe Fulgur's lead.

>Except their "translations" are just as bad and they also add stuff that wasn't in the original games

Their Trails releases have some of the best translations around, and they improve the writing tremendously over the slightly flat Japanese script. Their pre- Ys Origin translations of Falcom games were terrible though.

>see the chest messages in the Kiseki series

But those were neat. Much better than the generic "The chest is empty" message.

>>3996268
>they improve the writing tremendously over the slightly flat Japanese script.
"Improve" is subjective. They're employed as translators, not writers.

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>>3996268
>Their Trails releases have some of the best translations around
>they improve the writing tremendously over the slightly flat Japanese script.
>Le improving the source material argument
Opinion discarded
>But those were neat.
>It's no bad if I like it
Opinion discarded-X2

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I objectively understand they were bad localizations.

But I have very fond memories of every working designs localized game I played so my nostalgia is overwhelmingly biased toward them.

>>3996291
>>3996306
The point of a translation is striving to convey the writing style, character, and emotion in every line, fully realizing the intent of the creators. As a specific example, look at all the bits where Estelle snaps at people -- if these were just given a flat, literal translation they'd be all over the shop. These had to be WRITTEN in English to make sure they struck the right tone. It's very easy for lines like that to be limp, or too harsh, and ruin the effect. Instead, it's a delight every time.

>>3996306
>Opinion discarded-X2

Please explain how the chest messages are any bad. Replacing some generic messages is not bad -- they are just some goofy/quick jokes, meant to be a way to break the 4th wall and have fun.

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>the eternal weeb whining about localization thread

Fuck direct translations, they're always awkward garbage. Glad localization exists so we got cool stuff instead of lame SHAMEFUR DISPRAY AWAY THEY GOT nip shit

>>3996335
>>The point of a translation is striving to convey the writing style, character, and emotion in every line, fully realizing the intent of the creators
That can very, very easily be done without making up stuff to add in to the original script. Again, this kind of thing would never happen in a translated book.

>>3996335
Also, the point of translation is nothing other than translating words from one language to the next, as per the dictionary definition. It's the original writer's job to ensure that his text properly conveys his ideas - if it does, then it doesn't matter what language it's in.

>>3996354
>I don't understand even one foreign language

>>3996365
I know 5 (five).

>>3996365
Not an argument. Next?

>>3996369
Prove it

>>3996381
I don't need to, you're nothing to me. Try getting on my level, then we'll talk. Don't worry, I'll wait.

>>3996369
Translate "we thought he had the right stuff but he really screwed the pooch on that mother" directly into the four additional languages you're fluent in without alerting, explaining or interpreting in any way.

>>3996396
So you lied. Alright then.

>>3996401
Hey everyone, NISA employee here, lemme take this one:

"Woah, dog! We thought the stuff was correct, but BAZINGA! It sure wasn't, and we really [ed: reference to sexual deviancy removed, grow up gamers :p] pet the dog on that memer, just like that episode of The Simpsons where Bart pets the dog!"

>>3996431
Also, if you criticize this translation, I'll strawman you on my Twiiter (@LiberalBeardGlasses). See ya, weebs!

Hi everyone, I haven't translated a game in my life, but I sure have read enough Legends of Localization articles to know everything about it and that one translator's views on translation and localization mean everyone has such views!

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>>3996472
So no actual arguments, then? Alright.

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>>3995343
Not a fan of WD or extremely liberal localizations in general. I prefer them to be as reasonably close to the source as possible. I may get flack for this but I'd like to see their catalog get new fan re-localisations. If FF games can have tons of them, i'm not sure why WD shit shouldn't and honestly, the fact that so many pro translators in the industry hold them in such high regard and site them as inspirations is rather depressing.

>>3996291
>>3996306
>>3996351
>>3996354
They're localizers. Get over it.

>>3996335
>it's a delight every time.
Give me a break, you're pathetic.
Most of Kiseki is full of lines that are completely gratuitous and are completely out of character compared to the original text.
>Replacing some generic messages is not bad
Your post feels too generic to me, I'll just replace it with "I'm a huge faggot, pls rape my face", I'm sure you don't mind.

Also, most of the Hamlet feels terribly generic, let me add some fart jokes to Polonius' stabbing so people can have fun.
>>3996354
>the point of translation is nothing other than translating words from one language to the next, as per the dictionary definition.
No it isn't, you imbecile, and I'm not surprised you say such bullshit since you enjoy garbage like XSEED's localizations.
You don't know what translation is supposed to be, stop talking about things you know nothing about.

>>3995818
>>3995936
I really fucking hate this mentality of not being allowed to criticize something at all if you don't do it for a living.

>>3996190
And? Maybe part of the reason people play Japanese games is because they want to experience a different culture without having to learn an entirely different language.

>>3996550
>Maybe part of the reason people play Japanese games is because they want to experience a different culture without having to learn an entirely different language.
Yep, this! Why even play foreign games otherwise?

>>3996550
Nah, I just play them for the gameplay. I'm not a fucking weeb.

>>3996485
>>3996517
>>3996548
Stop avatarfagging you cringy faggot.

>>3995343
i just love lunar

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>>3996634
Well I mean, it's not like he's done anything ITT other than bitch about how localizers aren't providing 1:1 translations of his precious gook games.

Wouldn't be much of a loss.

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>>3995343
As a kid would it even be possible to give a fuck? like how would you know any better? I think i was around 12 when i played LSSC and loved any 'anime' game i could get my hands on

i guess its a problem for hipster teenagers playing these 'retro' games for the first time in 2017

and i loved the sexual innuendo they put in rayearth. back when anime was good you had 30 dollars for an anime vhs with 2 episodes. rayearth was the first anime i ever bought

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>>3995758
Beat me to it.

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I like the shiny and bump relief of their packaging/manuals. Adds a layer of difficulty in counterfeiting. Back in the dya, Working Designs were willing to localize games no one else would for my Japanese gaming fix.

>>3996541
In most cases, you'd be right. Not for translation.

If you don't know at least 2 DISTANT languages, you literally can't have an informed opinion on translation. You don't know enough about the field to complain, it's like telling a rocket scientist that his calculations are fucked up because you once made a bottle rocket as a kid.

Every fucking time I see someone whining about how games are too "localized" and they want "a direct, 1:1 translation", I want to punch a fucking wall. If you don't understand the differences between the languages, or at least have some kind of reference point in something like Korean or Chinese, then you actually don't know what you're talking about, and you should just shut the fuck up.

What you weebs actually want are localisations that aren't terrible, which is something you aren't going to get when localisation companies pay peanuts and hire college students. That's the problem here, not translators being too keen to change things, or crazy fuckers removing content to fit their own sense of morals. Those are just the kinds of people you get when you pay peanuts, people who are just doing it to send a message, or aren't paid enough to care.

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>>3997335
>i guess its a problem for hipster teenagers playing these 'retro' games for the first time in 2017

You're giving hipsters too much credit here. The whiners are usually turboweebs armed with google translate and forum posts.

>>3997494
>imagining how stupidly expensive those games are

I am unreasonably angry.

>>3995895
Lots of people do.
You have to go back.

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>>3997335
>As a kid would it even be possible to give a fuck?
I agree. Though I do tend to point and laugh ta some of WD's forms of "localization", they still have a special place in my heart. In a time where we kids barely even knew or didn't even know about the concept importing, these guys would bring in some pretty good titles when most people wouldn't even think of bringing over.
Their only grave sin is actually tempering with game mechanics like increasing difficulty and item prices.
Still, in the end of the day, I prefer WD, with their poop and Clinton jokes over the unholy abomination that is Nintendo Treehouse.

>>3996431
kek

>>3997551
>spending an entire day arguing semantics
good job lad

>>3995936
>>3995818
Those are literally the weakest arguments you can come up with.

>>3997551
I know 3 languages (Russian, English and Hebrew), so I know what am I talking about.

Literal translation can indeed result in an awful and awkward result that does not read right. However if the subject is not a joke of some kind you can always translate it close to the original meaning without adding any unwanted extra. That is a job of a translator. If you add something of your own, something that author did not meant (what exceed does) you automatically fail as a translator, because you put yourself above the author.

When people say they want 1:1 translation they mean that they want to get what original author was trying to say, not some translator asshats fanfictionary ideas of "what would've been better".

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>>3997769
>Hebrew

>>3997769
Calm down, Translator-san. If you're a polyglot and a translator then you understand that a big part of your job is translating intent. A language isn't a thing that exists in a bubble. A language has a culture that surrounds it and defines it. That culture is quite often very different from the culture of your target audience, and analogues need to used sometimes.

It's not a matter of putting yourself above the author. It's a matter of making sure that things like cultural differences, jokes, references, or concepts without an equivalent aren't given a literal translation resulting in complete gibberish.

>>3997494
>tfw own 2 or 3 Ghaelon puppets

send help

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>>3997590
Yeah, I walked into my local Funko Pop! store and they had 2 of the PS Silver Star Story and 3 of Eternal Blue for crazy high prices. The Working Designs games are a few of the games that go for more than when they were new in their day. I remember Working Designs from their early days with the TurboDuo, I had to have Cosmic Fantasy 2 because it was love at first sight with Cadette Babette.

>>3997816
Lucky. Electronics Boutique cheated me out of one even though I preordered. In fairness the service representatives were busy at the moment when I got my game.

>>3996105
For realsies.

>>3997769
>Those are literally the weakest arguments you can come up with.
If my argument that someone who knows fuck all about translating shouldn't be telling people how to do it is weak, why do you immediately try to tout your knowledge of other languages as some kind of pedigree to support your argument?

Maybe, just maybe, the fact that people who actually know Japanese and work as translators are always massively reworking what they translate is because they actually know how absurd the "don't change anything give me a pure Japanese experience" whining of know-nothings is.

Translators constantly, in every language and every medium, "put themselves above the author." It's the norm, not the exception. Translators don't just "translate," they have to read and interpret the source text just like any other reader does; the idea of a static, fixed meaning in the text is an illusion.

ITT: "perfect 1:1 translation" children making fools out of themselves yet again

i liked their translations a lot. it's very tongue and cheek geeky cheese shit but I loved it. to the point of making sure I'd talk to everyone in pretty much every game where I could.

>>3997621
>>3997335
Remember though that just because you were a kid when the games came out, not everyone was. Maybe if I was 12 when I first played them it would be different.

When you were already in your late teens and into anime and translation quality it was frustrating to finally get some of these games from Japan but have them filled with terrible jokes and added farts.

>>3998373
I graduated high school in the late 90s, was into anime since early 90s. i'll say back then that I was relatively easy to please...and I really enjoyed almost everything working designs brought over here.

this was me: >>3998330

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>>3998373
if u werent a kid when they came out u are way too old to be posting on 4chan grandpa

>>3998405
>buttah
Fucking hell, I'm so glad Psygnosis changed it to butter. That would piss me off.

>>3998391
>>3998401
Never changed this though, still, not as bad as >>3996110 though

>>3998420
Well to each their own, I just know that wasn't my experience.

>>3998428
That's nice. :)

>>3998428
you need to respect your elders, little punk. I've CUT people for less.

>>3997620
Yeah, name five.