One of the tragic effects of the death of jrpgs is that rpgs

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Well it's a good thing you're on the retro board, my fair anon.

Jerperguers evolved from shonen stories into moeshit stories.

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>>3978187
We're gonna look back on this after the fad has died down some twenty years from now and really be fascinated by what kind of stuff weirdos put in their games. Don't be too bothered by it, just don't play their crap.

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>>3978197
Please continue posting loli cartoons.

>>3978205
It's okay anon, I don't pay any mind to the shitposter.

>>3978147
B&W usually have lower expectations in regard of quality but even then they can still shit the bed, I'll take any of those two types of plots as long as the writer isn't a retard.
>>3978187
SJW shit is surprisingly B&W, there's no middle ground you're either righteous and progressive or evil and sexist.

>>3978187
This shit is why I only play retro games.

>>3978147
Lord of the Rings was filled with complicated ethical issues and Tolkien's other fantasy was pretty grimdark and depressing

>>3978341
Wasn't Tolkien a veiled racist?

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>>3978147
>a la Tolkien
You should check out Winnie the Pooh. It was the inspiration for Tolkien who was trying to make an "Epic Pooh"

>>3978345
Yeppp

How did orcs know what a menu is?

Because orcs = black people. They're talking about KFC

>>3978345
Yes and no. >>3978358 is sort of kind of right about the origins of the word racist being from Leon Trotsky (a Jew, though he was mostly a Bolshevik.) who was referring to the Ukrainians who didn't want to be a part of the Soviet Union. This version came over to America some time in the forties in Communist circles and replaced the term that used to be used at the time (White Chauvinism.)

However, there is another, non initially pejorative term for racist that came from the German volkisch, which referred to movements from around the 18th Century onward that were German nationalist and would find its descendants in Wagner, the DNVP, and the Nazis. That word is also verboten these days, but I think volkisch is a good way to understand Tolkien, he was a little-England nationalist anarchist kind of guy, extreme isolationist and agrarian. He wasn't an anti-semite, nor was he anti-black or anything else.

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I'd like it we saw a return to straight forward ethics in RPGs because I agree that we've slid too far in the opposite direction. Recently at a Pathfinder event, I ended up at an all noob table but my former player from ~2000 current DM was running a table full of "experienced" millenials. Everyone is level 1. They opened a dungeon door and found four ghouls which is definitely enough to kill 6 level 1 characters but they were "fed" so they spent a round doing nothing and then another round staggered. The right choice would have been to charge in and demolish at least one, maybe two of them but these players waited to see what the ghouls would do. I guess they had spoken to a ghast earlier or something. Anyway, if the adventure hadn't explicitly stated that the ghouls' tactics were to attempt to paralyze all PCs (no feeding) there would have definitely been character deaths. As it was they came dangerously close to a wipe.

I'd like to see some video RPGs that punish the players for moral ambiguity or at least reward them for fully heroic decisions.

>>3978675
>I'd like to see some video RPGs that punish the players for moral ambiguity or at least reward them for fully heroic decisions.
You know, what RPGs were SUPPOSED to do all along.

>>3978147
The trouble with modern JRPG's is they make extremely complicated plots with extremely simple characters. When it should be the other way around.

>>3978341

Tolkien's shit was an ethically uncomplicated as you can get.

>>3978345

By today's crazy-ass criteria, everyone born before the 1980s might as well have owned slaves and wiped an ethnicity or two off the planet. Civil rights as a concept has been completely co-opted by the deluded and the opportunistic, abetted by the ignorant.

>>3978662

This.

>>3978147
you mustve missed the parts of middle earth where 'good' races kill eachother without any morgoth influence.

but i get what you mean. people are convinced that make games that they all require some major moral ambiguity that they didn't before.

>>3978147
I think you're confusing Japanese sci-fi fantasy conventions being about man verses nature (monsters and gods) and they're lack of presences in the modern market since the waning of the popularity of JRPGs and Western sci-fi and fantasy conventions revolving around man verses man/self which have always been a staple of Western media and is now has more hold in the market

>>3978147
Funny you post the first FF when it itself gets pretty convoluted at the end with that time travel shit

>>3980703
>Tolkien's shit was an ethically uncomplicated as you can get.

Read the books instead of watching the movies. Lots of ethical issues. The concepts of pride and greed are recurring themes throughout the story and the cause most of the conflict in the trilogy. "Killing the objectively evil guy" is an almost inconsequential part of the story.

>>3983176

I read the books. "Objective evil" as a concept did not exist, only "absolute good", "absolute evil", "absolute hillbilly" and "damned if we know".

The only case where this wasn't true was the Silmarilion, and by that point I'd honestly had quite enough of John's Fantasy Catholic Bible: 1098th Revision.

Dragon Quest will always be there for you, OP.

>>3978147
>Instead of saving the world by defeating the shadow henchmen, you usually have to deal with more complex ethical issues.

So the tragic thing is that the storytelling got a little less shitty?

>>3978147
Isnt skyrim's story basically
>you're the dragonborne
>collect some shit
>slay some dragons
>kill the final boss

Western rpgs are pretty open. Even if they have a gorillion narrative threads the main story is always just barebones hero's journey shit

>>3983182
Tolkien made no distinction between "absolute evil" and "objective evil" though

>>3978161
100% this. I can't stand modern jRPGs as it's all moe garbage and fan service.

Older ones has such an amazing balance.

>>3983563
>it's all moe garbage and fan service.

What a shitty generalization.

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>>3983563
>I can't stand modern jRPGs as it's all moe garbage and fan service.
>Older ones has such an amazing balance.

Right, I too only play older JRPGs™ for a person of supreme taste and wisdoms such as myself, fellow retrogamer.

>>3978147
I don't mind convoluted plots whatsoever.
What I hate is when they're conveyed through 30-minute cutscenes.

And ESPECIALLY if they feel the need to begin the game with two hours of cutscenes and a 'tutorial' segment.

Nobody gives a shit about your plot until they're already invested in the game a little bit. Let the players fucking play a bit first, Jesus. I wish more RPGs just plopped right the fuck on the world map at the beginning like FF1.

>>3983563
Spoken exactly like someone who hasn't played an RPG in years and thinks only Neptuniashit exists.

The last couple years have been great for JRPGs and old franchises getting new games.

>>3983971
>Nobody gives a shit about your plot until they're already invested in the game a little bit.
Unfortunately, the reverse is the standard today, only older people prefer gameplay over plot, see how most RPGs today have lengthy opening sequences and prologues where you do nothing at all.

>>3983981
Atelier fan here, the fanservice corrupted that too.

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>>3978147
>FF1
>Picking the FF with the most convoluted plot device in the whole series

>Saying this when FFXV has the most straight forward plot ever

>>3984029
That's a shame. I have a few of the older ones and I liked them quite a bit.

>>3978147
>death of jrpgs
Check out hentai jRPGs. Porn is historically behind the times and jRPGs are loved.

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>>3983659
oh hey I bought that recently, it looks fun

>>3984115
Monster Girl Quest Paradox part 2 soon

>>3983659

Is there still a translation in progress for this? Been really wanting to play this for years

>>3984115
Shout out to Rance 6, very enjoyable

>>3978662
Then how come the only asiatic or black people in the whole fucking thing are literal demonic creatures bent on war?
The Orcs are Asian and the Armies of the South are all black people.
You lying piece of nazi shit.

>>3984297
>k-on psp

surprisingly fun game

>>3978147
>implying stories back then werent made up as they go
Dude just whatever,if you want modern story experience there is ton of AAA games just for you.

>>3984087
>>3984326

are you that tranny that keeps posting here? sounds like you finally went insane from taking too much hormones

>>3984346
cool supposition stormfag.
I actually read the books multiple times, and even I know the volkisch movement is literal nazi bullshit.
Which is hilarious because Nazis, historically, are all fags and drug addicts.

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>>3984326
>Looks at the evil people in a simple fantasy story
>Immediately equates them with minority races
Are you known to Mr. Orion Ayak?

>>3984326
I dunno, why do the guys in The Three Musketeers have French names?

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>>3984356
>>3984364

Okay, stormfags, whatever

>>3984369
Yeah this is a racist trying to start fights and not keeping /pol/ in /pol/. Report, hide, and ignore

>>3984350
>being this mentally unhinged

yikes, don't do drugs kids

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>>3984373
>not keeping /pol/ in /pol/

oh is that what you were doing by apologizing for the FUCKING VOLKISCH MOVEMENT, TOLKIEN AND WAGNER IN A GOD DAMN JRPG THREAD??

>>3978147
>death of jrpgs
Wait, what happened? Hasn't FF15 been just released?

>>3985408
They don't even sell well in Japan anymore. Mobage has completely taken over.

>>3978147

If you like Tolkien, then Shining Force is right up your alley. The second game is better than the first, imo

the morality of Lord of the Rings is mostly binary, but that's not a bad thing. people who criticize it on those grounds are missing the point. LotR isn't so much about good or evil, it's about freedom vs tyranny.

>>3985410
So jRPG just have to migrate to mobile phones to sell.

>>3984039

WOBBA-KNOCKA WOBBA-KNOCKA WOBBA-KNOCKA

>>3984297
It's actually pretty fun if you're into comedy and 90's mahou shoujo, the battle sprites are really cute too, though everything else is meh.
As long as you play it for the comedy it's good, don't expect an good game though, it's pretty bad.
>>3984316
>Is there still a translation in progress for this?
I didn't even know there was one.
>>3985410
>They don't even sell well in Japan anymore.
More like it's the only thing that sells in Japan, if Europe runs on Fifa and US runs on FPS, Japan's lifeblood is JRPGs.

>>3978147
>storytelling is too convoluted!
>here's final fantasy 1 a story about heroes trapped in retrocausality for eternity bringing to the fore questions of presdestination and fate on the backdrop of environmentalism subtext

So, are you saying FF1 is an example of too complicated, or not complicated enough?

>>3982945

It's still just four good people beating the one evil thing, though. Or four-from-one if you prefer. Pretty simple, at the character level.

>>3983981
this, with games like SMT, NieR Automata, YS8, Kiseki series JRPGs aren't "dead" at all.
Final Fantasy does suck now though.

>>3978147
>, you usually have to deal with more complex ethical issues.

yeah, scenario writers will get muddled down in the idea of the moral ambiguity adding depth to the character to the point where they think the focus should end up on the ethical issue.

but they forget, the engaging story is when a moral (or immoral) character is thrust into that situation, and following what they do in the chaos.

>>3978662
>is sort of kind of right about the origins of the word racist being from Leon Trotsky (a Jew, though he was mostly a Bolshevik.) who was referring to the Ukrainians who didn't want to be a part of the Soviet Union. This version came over to America some time in the forties in Communist circles and replaced the term that used to be used at the time (White Chauvinism.)

This myth has been debunked for some time.Trotsky used the term "rasisti" in 1930 which is often translated as "racist". The terms racist and racism date back to 1902.

>>3978147
People botched about those kinds of plots though anon.

Oooh gonna slay the big bad dark lord who wants to take over the world and kill the dragon who kidnapped the helpless princess.

So they changed it by making the church the big bad where it used to be your ally and where your characters would rez and they made all the princesses action girls

And then people started bitching about THAT, so now we're on moeblob waifus and fighting against eldritch entities in alternate realities and now the main character is god but also an alien. With a dash of time travel

>>3978147
The genge still exists, but it has migrated from games to web novels. And since wen novel writers don't read anything exceps each other the genre is an inbred mess.

>>3978147
>death of jrpgs
?????

>>3983659
>All those people who think you're serious
Fucking premium kek

>>3978147
real games are about KILLING and only that. that is why DOOM is the greatsts games of all times!!

>>3988868
>People actually think like this
I know you were mocking them but it's painful when there are people like this in the world

>>3978147
You're arguing that JRPG's were better off with miniscule stories and literally the same fucking gameplay in each one? Why not replay the same JRPG over and over, the story doesn't matter to you apparently!