Thief

>>3944316
>Would I be missing a whole lot if I stopped here and jumped into Thief 2?
Well, yes and no. It depends on what you're liking about the game. If it's about thievery and level design, you would miss a good level for sure, Return to The Cathedral, which caves deep into the spooky and unnatural element of the game making a great and satisfying conclusion for the search of the Eye, the main part of TDP. Although, of the four levels based around the search of the keys for the cathedral, I both appreciated The Lost City and Song of The Caverns, the former for the ancient underground civilization setting that goes unmatched through the saga (mainly good only if you like exploration-based levels), the latter for its unique and yet classic infiltration feeling. Sneaking around inside an opera house, right before the show, in a dark but lively ambient, feels really good, and predates the mundane feeling of Thief 2.
The rest of the levels after the Cathedral are more connected to the plot and how it develops than anything. If you're interested in that, try and see if you like them. They're rather simple and straighforward compared to mazes like the Tower. If you're here mainly for the taffing, you can go through them fast or even skip them with shift+ctrl+alt+end iirc. The story reveals itself in quite the interesting way imo, but it's not the main focus of the game of course.
Shortly, the Tower has its good moments, but if you don't really like the concept just skip it and see if the rest of the game can make it up to you. The supernatural and dark element of the game will stay unique even when you'll get to Thief 2, so if you're liking it I suggest you to endure through the more frustrating levels. If you surpassed the Thieves' Guild you're more than halfway there.

>>3944316
>skipping anything in Thief 1
I could maybe see skipping the thieves guild, but that's about it.

I always wondered why that intro text to the Bafford mansion talked about Garrett leaving the Keepers in anger. Ever since the tutorial he always seemed like fuck this, this skills are better used for some thieving. Nothing personal, no anger, just selfishness. In Thief 2 he seems really pissed at them though, that's for sure.

>>3945304
The Keepers used Garrett, and he eventually figured this out. In their prophesies he was the promised warrior, who was destined to bring down the Trickster. It's a fact that the Keepers always kept an eye out for Garrett, looking after him and even influencing some of the turns his life took, just to ensure that the prophesies come true. Maybe they even deliberately treated him like shit in his youth to make him leave, just to ensure that all things would proceed as written.

What is known for certain is that the Keepers by then were an old, stuffy and conservative organisation full of all sorts of petty rules, and this would not sit well with a freethinker like Garrett, who appreciates his freedoms. The bottom line is, the Keepers wanted Garrett to be the one to risk his neck against the Trickster, and he didn't like that one bit.

>>3945498
Thanks for the insight, never thought of it this way. Although Thief's story is all about retrospective and relative truth, I always imagined that what they say about Garrett in that fragment is to be understood right at the start of the game. Then again, the Keepers' words tell the player everything that is needed to know about their plans for Garrett, but only they know the future and not the player, thus those words remains meaningless until the end.

The Mansion in Thief 2 was a big turnoff for me in the game to be completely honest.
>not much to steal
>ever
>despite getting in a rich guy's mansion
>the mansion on top isn't worth risking your life exploring
>everybody moves like snails pace
>npcs gets stuck while escaping, staying completely static and rendering the level unwinnable
if's my first time playing but i feel like giving it another proper go. how much better does it get better after this?

>>3945747
You mean the very first level? It's not really indicative of the rest of the game. It's more like a tutorial in the form of a level, short and with very precise objecties. The game will get way better than that, with a variety of levels different in scope and overall themes. You're gonna get your mansion worth stealing from.
Now, the second level is a bit peculiar, but it's already a big step forward when it's about searching for what you have to steal, difficulty, and, in general, quantity of loot, introducing proper secrets and optional areas.

>>3945794
I always felt the second level in thief 2 was boring. Having to do the codes to unlock each individual garage isn't that fun.

File: thief shock.jpg (223KB, 930x1316px) Image search: [Google]

223KB, 930x1316px

I, too, started to play Thief for the first time not too long ago. Still haven't finished it and I'm not sure how far I'm in the game. I'm about 11 hours in and I'm currently in the Constantine mission where I need to steal some magic sword.

The prison level taught me a lot about this game:
>cutscene tells how the mines are rumored to be haunted
>get to the store and equipment screen
>see hint scrolls for like 250 credits
>think they will be useful because I have to dwell through the haunted mines which I expect to be maze-like
>buy scrolls
>"look out for the mines, they are haunted :^)" t. scroll

Great. Also, the equipment I buy/find don't seem to carry over to the next level, which is fucking bullshit. It's a nice game, but I don't really *feel* the stealth in it. It's more like "quietly knock out everybody so that you can be loud" game than stealth game. Of course you need to avoid being seen, but it's just so much easier to knock them out than trying to avoid them. I still think Splinter Cell perfected the stealth genre.

>>3945850
Splinter Cell never seemed much different from Thief in that regard.
Your equipment and cash don't carry over so you actually use it. If the game didn't do that people would just hoard shit the entire game.

>>3945850
>It's more like "quietly knock out everybody so that you can be loud" game than stealth game. Of course you need to avoid being seen, but it's just so much easier to knock them out than trying to avoid them

The later levels arent so easy about this, as some of the other-worldly enemies cant be knocked out. Thief 2 also has a few missions where even knocking out isnt allowed.

>>3945850
You have to understand that back then, in 1999, Thief was still a somewhat experimental affair. Nothing like it had been done before, so naturally not all things were yet perfect. Thief 2 did a lot to improve and polish the concept, and it's by and far the superior game.

As for the equipment, you're supposed to use them during the missions, and not hoard them, and this is very much a deliberate design choice according to the authors.

>>3945805
And if you don't know what to do at first, it's gonna take a lot of time. The fact that you can open the doors only one at a time doesn't help for sure. But for some reason I like levels with very precise ways to reach your objective, as much as I like the more free ones. I liked following the instructions manual at Soulforge, I might aswell have a problem.

>>3946315
In more populated levels it gets easier to plainly avoid enemies too, instead of getting close to knock them out and deal with the bodies.

>>3946332

>Thief 2 did a lot to improve and polish the concept, and it's by and far the superior game.

spoken like a true pleb

>>3946332
>Thief 2 did a lot to improve and polish the concept, and it's by and far the superior game.

Jesus Christ, how can someone be so completely and utterly wrong on such a fundamental level?

As much as I prefer TMA for having more human/thieving levels, I do wish it kept to focusing on the "dark fantasy" aspect of the world, rather than bringing steampunk to the table.

I also wish there were more levels involving haunts, apparitions, and craymen/beasts. I never really cared for the levels that mostly threw zombies, burricks, and spiders at me, as it no longer felt like the same genre anymore.

>>3946535
>I do wish it kept to focusing on the "dark fantasy" aspect of the world, rather than bringing steampunk to the table.
As much as I like how the steampunk element was integrated in the setting and how the two games take their genre to the extreme, I agree. The mansion levels in TDP are still unmatched in terms of general feel. Sometimes it's good to just be a typical rogue in a dark fantasy world.

Are there good fms mainly based on beasts and unnatural stuff? Still have to play a lot of the good ones, but it seems like an unfairly ignored theme.

>>3944316
>The Mage Towers
Thief Gold is not that good imho. The original TDP is the one you should play the first time.

>>3946797
Thieve's Guild is a giant maze with not much landmarks in the middle to help navigation, so I can see why this isn't liked.
Mage Towers is decent, if a bit long.
Song of the Caverns is an excellent mission that makes Gold worth it.

Basso's sister delivering when

>>3946473
>>3946492
Okay¸ so you chose to disagree with me¸ care to explain why? In Thief 2 it’s obvious that the devs were more in tune with their tools, as they had grown more comfortable with them and had more experience. The game engine was able to do more. Places like the Shoalsgate Station in Framed were brilliant. Overall, levels felt better designed, they flowed smoother. In Thief you had things like loot objectives sometimes being impossible to meet, and Thief Gold had that God awful Thieves' Guild-mission, that was a fucking chore to play. And Lost City in places felt very frustrating.

Of course T1 (Gold) has missions like Down in the Bonehoard, Return to the Cathedral and Song Of The Caverns, where the atmosphere goes trough the roof, and I will love the game forever for them. But T1 also has these little quirks that stick out like a sore thumb.

>>3947448

>Places like the Shoalsgate Station in Framed were brilliant.
The mission had a rather simplistic layout. They wanted a stronger emphasis on stealth judging by the almost forced ghosting but didn't want to take it too far, so they made every npc have the most basic patrol routes possible and kept loud or very lit areas to a minimum. In the end, this mission is just way too easy to be fun. Also the starting area was fugly even by thief standards.

>In Thief you had things like loot objectives sometimes being impossible to meet
git gud

>Thief Gold had that God awful Thieves' Guild-mission,
Thief 2 has sabotage at soulforge aka thieves' guild squared

>And Lost City in places felt very frustrating.
They actually recycled that mission for thief 2 and made it even more annoying by having cameras and robots everywhere and making your main objective move randomly throughout the level.

Thief 2 has a couple of standout levels, but also quite a few mediocre ones. The experience is a lot more uneven in my opinion. And they also removed a lot of what made thief 1 unique. Not only the undead but everything supernatural as a whole. Even seemingly normal missions like bafford's had this creepy and surreal vibe to them, and that's all but gone in thief 2, with its much more grounded setting. It feels much more generic in general. And in my opinion, the robots and steampunk elements were not a good addition.

>>3947634
>every npc have the most basic patrol routes possible

That's how they all behave in every mission, until they spot you. The NPCs either follow some predetermined patrol route, or they stand guard in one place, possibly turning around every once in a while to see what's around them. Hardly a unique issue for the Shoalsgate Station job.

>sabotage at soulforge
Justifies its length somewhat by being the final mission and the final battle against the head bad guy. Even then the level design beats that of the Thieves' Guild-mission hands down. Thieves' Guild felt like it was somebody's first level design done as a practice.

>Lost City revisited
Beating that mission is still a cakewalk compared to the sometimes aimless wandering in the T1 original, when nothing happens and you have no clue where to go. In the T2 revisit, kidnapping that one mechanist bastard is a simple matter of figuring out his patrol route and setting up an ambush. Easy job if you brought gas arrows with you. The cameras can be dealt with using fire arrows. Sure, the guards will throw a fit, but they'll forget soon enough if you just stay hidden.

I never much cared for the zombies. The steampunk in T2 did make the levels feel more modern, vs the T1 levels that felt more medieval and old timey. It changed the feel, sure. But it comes down to personal preference again, and I personally had no problem with either style.

>>3947634
>Thief 2 has sabotage at soulforge aka thieves' guild squared

Not him, but soulforge was nowhere near thieve's guild levels of bad. For one, its layout isn't an absurdly difficult to navigate maze. Its also a much more interesting and climatic way to finish the game, unlike Maw of Chaos, which was literally a boring linear corridor.

>>3947817
>which was literally a boring linear corridor.
Don't remind. I was so ready for a big ass difficult final level, and not even stealing the Eye was hard at all. Entered what at the time looked like some pseudo-hell seemed like a big deal for sure.

>>3947793

>That's how they all behave in every mission, until they spot you...

Yes, it is a unique issue for framed and also casing the joint and every mission where they tried to force the ghosting approach. You can compare any other mission in the game and guards have much bigger, intricate patrol routes. In framed it's go to the end of barely lit corridor, wait for a while, go back and repeat. Everyone has a set pattern and there's basically no overlapping patrols between guards.

>Justifies its length somewhat by being the final mission...

It doesn't. It's a tedious mission with oversized everything that makes even running around it feel like a chore. It has barely any landmarks either, since it's all the same huge metal boxes with robots running around from beginning to end. And it doesn't try to hide that it is little more than a fetch quest and you'll be backtracking the same oversized, ugly metal tunnels for over 2 hours. The only challenge is the dozens of robots the game throw at you in badly designed areas that have too little cover and/or too many loud surfaces that making trying to sneak past a chore. In the end you'll probably be abusing their ai and having them blow themselves up against a wall because of how tedious it gets. Personally, I like the maw much better as an ending to the game.

>Beating that mission is still a cakewalk compared to the sometimes aimless wandering in the T1 original...

They are the same mission, the aimless wandering is still present in 2 and even more so because of the patrol route (which gets bugged more often than not) and the changes they introduce to the layout. Cameras and robots just add to the annoyance.

File: render.jpg (262KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

262KB, 1280x720px

I'm modeling a Thief-inspired medieval house based on my apartment. With steampunk fridges and collector tower powered electricity.