I do not understand all of the complains about the camera in

There isn't a lot of things you can complain about in SM64. The camera not being totally free is a minor "flaw" that people point out a lot just to complain about something. Especially younger people or people who didn't play this when it came out.

How's Ape Escape's camera?

>Push left camera button
>camera doesn't move

fuck you

>>3911401
It's was an early 3D game. They didn't get everything right on the first go. It's not good. Let it go man. This is autistic.

>>3911490
If he's autistic, then you're just a down right imbecile.

>>3911401
>I do not understand all of the complains about the camera in Super Mario 64.
There was nothing wrong with it, at worst it added a little challenge. Something millenial babbies don't like.

>>3911490
>It was a game older than me. I didn't like it on the first go. Therefore, it's not good. This is my reality. Conform to it.

>>3911514
That's the post-millennial generation for you. They grew up with their parents telling them that they were some genius being because they were able to browse youtube at age 3.

Mario 64 has much better camera than the majority of 3rd person 3d games.
Ever played a fuckin game where u gotta adjust the camera 100% manually constantly?

>>3911514
>>3911527

You do realise shit like this actually makes you look like the children here, right? You assume that someone must be younger than you, and thus wrong, just because you disagree with their opinion. If you were actually mature people, you wouldn't be acting like this. Even if you are actually adults, it's immature as fuck to hold your age over someone else as if it necessarily makes you more intelligent than them, or as if it's some magic button you can press to instantly win an argument. Grow the fuck up.

And by the way, the camera is a notable flaw in Super Mario 64. Just like he said, it's simply due to it being an earlier 3d game. It would take until the next console generation for 3d games to really get the camera movement right. Don't go acting like someone else is in the wrong for stating the truth instead of playing into the legend of Mario 64 being some perfect, flawless game. There are no perfect games.

>>3911543
Nobody said SM64 is perfect though.
>writing that many words just to look "mature".

>>3911540
>Ever played a fuckin game where u gotta adjust the camera 100% manually constantly?
Examples?

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>>3911543
Y'know that's pretty well-said, anon. Just name-calling and accusing eachother of one thing or another will make us no better than /v/ermin scum.

>>3911549
not him but Souls games

>>3911548
>>writing that many words just to look "mature".
Not even him but he's spot on. I want to like /vr/ but this "my age is an argument" thing makes me feel like I'm in high school again.

>>3911552
It's been a while, but I don't remember DS1 or 2 having a bad camera.
But I guess it helps that attack is on the bumpers so you can keep one thumb on the right stick.

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Like, let's just start over.

The most notable example of the camera not working, I'm sure everyone's familiar with it, would be that corner in wet-dry world, when you're high up. Yeah YOU know the one. The one where you had to cross a plank but couldn't get the camera behind you by just pressing c-left or c-right. I think, had they allowed the camera to look through obstacles there wouldn't be any issues.

>>3911543
>some anon uses an overly simplistic argument to declare that the entire game is not good
>gets called out for it
>different anon takes personal offense
>uses verbose version of "no u" argument
>acts like this makes detractors less mature than self
>supports camera anon, disregarding the fact that he was criticized for forming his opinion of the entire game solely on minor camera flaws
>>3911551
>m-me too!
>>3911557
>samefagging
It's funny how we always get this kind of discourse outside of school hours.

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>>3911581
Don't be such a schizo, anon.

>>3911570

But you can just the R button to center the camera directly behind Mario for those situations

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>>3911595
Oh yeah, totally. You can. I love that R button.

I'm just saying, everyone uses the c left and right buttons the most. The R button doesn't come to mind right away. Which is probably what frustrates people.

>>3911598

I feel like most people who complain about the camera dont even know you can use the R button

>>3911514
>muh underage
Nice try but I was 10 when the game cane out, faggot.

>>3911801
>cane
>faggot
What did he mean by this?

>>3911595
>>3911598
>>3911615
>I 100% Sm64 without ever knowing this
sssshhheeeeiiiitttttt

I know babby bashing is this board's official pastime, but I was already in my 20s when Mario 64 first came out and I hated the camera. This was that period in the late 90s/early 00s when developers (mostly Japanese) thought it was a good idea to completely automate the camera system in 3D games, so players could just control the character and not get confused. Those were dark times for us all.

>>3911474
this right here. user-hostile design.

>>3911959
>mostly japanese
But Super Mario 64 was the first game to implement a working camera system where the user could change it in a dynamic way in a 3D game. Western games like Crash Bandicoot or Tomb Raider, or even other japanese games like Mystical Ninja starring Goemon and Mega Man Legends, that came before SM64, couldn't do.

>>3912080
My mistake, MML and Goemon came AFTER SM64, and before Ocarina of Time.

>>3911959
>relates SM64 to "completely automated camera system"
You mean the camera that you can manually adjust?
>user-hostile
This says it all. If something bothers you in even the slightest, you take it as a personal affront and declare that the developers must have been out to get you. Stop lying about your age and fuck off.

>>3912087
>You mean the camera that you can manually adjust?
only up to a point as you very well know. I know Mario 64 did some camera tricks that Crash Bandicoot and Tomb Raider didn't, but it was still a nuisance. If anything, it made the camerawork even more unpredictable at times.

>Stop lying about your age
top kek kid. Sorry to rain on your golden childhood, but I was already in college at the time.

>>3912106
>but it was still a nuisance
Better than not being able to adjust the camera at all.

I don't like "settling" for a less-than-ideal camera angle. I want to put the camera exactly where I want it. Everyone plays differently, and the place I want the camera might be different than yours.

>>3912114
So you'd rather not be able to control it at all, or you just don't play any 3D 3rd person game without 360 camera movement?

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>>3911401
simple: people suck at manual controls. the camera options are godly in 64 and sunshine. other games don't involve complex maneuvers on varied terrain like 64 and Sunshine do. if you ranked any list of platformers these games get top slot. the other games if you get into a bind you are screwed because automatic camera means you have a bad unchangeable angle the game will always default to.

>>3912113
What I'm saying is that the whole approach of having an automatic cinema-style camera was flawed from the outset. Mario 64 did it about as well as could be expected, but the idea behind it was fundamentally flawed. That's why it comes as no surpise that most developers quickly switched over to the model of Halo-style R-stick camera control, even for third-person games.

>>3912120
>Halo-style R-Stick camera control
lol wut? halo influenced games in a lot of ways, but camera control is not one of them.

>>3912120
>Halo that's a generation ahead, anon.

just citing Halo as an easy-to-recognize reference point. Substitute "FPS-style controls under full user control" if you like. The argument is the same. How many third-person games still use Mario 64-style cameras? Nintendo stuck with it until Mario Galaxy, but they were the last holdout AFAIK.

>>3912135
mario 64's camera became complete when it fully evolved into sunshine's camera. wind waker's camera and current Zelda camera are a slight step down from sunshine's camera options. mario galaxy, 3d world, new mario. -- are for noobs. they purposefully dumbed down the camera to make accessibility better; accessibility better /= not better camera control.

odyssey will likely have a camera that is a slight step down from sunshine's, but slightly better than Zelda: BOTW's. it's not going to use noob cam because odyssey is a proper 3D adventure.

>>3912235
? but Zelda BOTW uses standard sane R-stick camera control (thank the goddess).

I agree that the autocam in sunshine and wind waker was more refined.

>>3911549
>please spoonfeed me

>>3912115
>or you just don't play any 3D 3rd person game without 360 camera movement?
Mostly that. I thought SM64 was awkward in 1996 and I still do. Sunshine is the only 3D Mario I can stomach playing for extended periods since it's the only one that lets me put the camera where I want it.

>>3912349
>I
>I
>I
>I
There seems to be a pattern here.

There are times where the camera doesn't move exactly where you want it, but overall it's amazingly functional considering how new 3D gaming was.

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>>3912424

I played mario 64 when it came out. the camera is a bit clunky, but it's not too bad, especially since it was a pioneer in 3d games. I remember having issues with it inside the volcano and a few other places, but for the most part it worked.

a larger problem in mario 64 is how some levels felt rushed and unfinished, especially if you compare the early levels to the later ones on the upper hallway.

it also takes too long to climb, but that's a nitpick.

for a 3d pioneer, mario 64 is a very solid game that did what it set out to do.

>>3912424
>Thread about opinions
>Get mad when an opinion is expressed just because the word I is used several times.

>>3912235
This. Finally somebody who gets it. I had just about given up all hope.

>>3912124
>>3912123
>>3912120
>>3912135
Actually that makes me wonder, which console FPS was the first to use twin stick aim-move setup? Goldeneye?

>>3914909
Pretty sure it's Aliens: Ressurection on PS1.

Game sucks though, but it has like 3 different control schemes. Regular pad with no analog, twin analog, mouse.

>>3914909
Nope, all of the Goldeneye configs were turn/move on one side and tilt/strafe on the other. A lot of PS1 games used shoulder-button strafing.

I think Medal of Honor had the modern twin stick setup, but it wasn't the default.

As much as I hate to admit it, Halo was really the game that set the standard.