The Age Old Debate

Yeah, pretty much.

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>>3890329
Wait, how exactly?

At like the very earliest stage of development, in the final build the only close similarity is the Shadow Temple having a couple parts derived from Misery Mire.

It's a Link To The Past 3D counterpart.

It's similar in the same way The Force Awakens is similar to the first Star Wars movie.
Is it "technically" the same movie? No.
Is it a soft-remake that borrows ideas and plot devices from the first movie? Absolutely.

>>3890324
That's one way to describe it. Which is pretty much the highest complement.

>>3890337
Tell me which game I'm describing. Ocarina Of Time or A Link To The Past?
>complete three introductory dungeons and collect a green thing, a red thing, and a blue thing
>obtain the Master Sword and be immediately teleported to a corrupted alternate reality
>complete more difficult dungeons in this new reality to free/rescue some sages
>gain entrance to the final dungeon
>final battle involves using your sword to knock back energy balls at the villain, followed by a fight with Ganon in his beast form
>game ends with Link putting the Master Sword back

>>3890339
>shadow temple
>misery mire
Such as? I never noticed this.

>>3890356
technically the future isn't an alternate reality

>>3890361
I mean, the Dark World is essentially the future created when Ganon obtained the Triforce.

>>3890361

Yes it is

>>3890373
nah, it's just another part of the same reality

>>3890324
in it's entirety

They have a very similar structure/progression and the genear plot is kinda sorta similar. Plot details, characters, settings, and so on are vaguely similar.

So, no, it clearly isn't.

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>>3890346
This.

It's not a literal remake but from a design standpoint, it does very little new.

The amount of innovations it made in creating a 3D game make it still stand out as an achievement, though.

Every Zelda game between ALTTP and (coincidentally) ALBW is basically the same game. ALBW does some interesting things to change up the flow/pacing of the game but nothing major.

Are they still great games? Of course. But they completely quit innovating with ALTTP. In fact ALTTP uses more design philosophy from Mario 3 than it does Zelda 1 or 2.

Which is why, going into BOTW completely blind, I was literally shocked at how much of a departure from the ALTTP style it was.

>>3890324
No.

Link to the Past is a masterpiece, and Ocarina of Time isn't.

>>3890506
just because one is a master piece and the other is garbage doesnt change the fact that it's a 3d remake. It was just done horribly

>all of this Ocarina Of Time hate
Where did it come from?

>>3890490
This. I never thought the zelda dev team would have the stones to make a zelda game that actually managed to feel mysterious again.

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>>3891051
E-celebs like egorapter and his parroting fans.

>>3891132
Is that why CV4 gets shit on so much around here too?

>>3890337
Story based driven.
dungeons
light/dark world = timetravel

Not the same but similairities but its fine. Both are very good in their own way.

>>3890324
>Is it really just A Link To The Past in 3D?

I was a poor kid growing up, so I didn't even know about ALttP. I got OoT years and years later after I spotted an N64 in a pawn shop significantly discounted.

After discovering emulation and finally playing ALttP for myself, I saw the parallels right off. My first impression was, "Man, this is just a 2D Ocarina of Time. Are these games actually the same story?!" Of course, the story does have some distinctive features, but it was pretty damn similar.

Then when Twilight Princess came out, it seemed to have many parallels with OoT on its own. Well, up until you get dragged into those tedious wolf / bug hunting sequences. Then it's just a bullshit game.

>>3890324
The only real similarity is the story structure.

Literally every movement and combat mechanic works completely differently.

>>3890490
>from a design standpoint, it does very little new.
Imagine being this delusional.

Master quest best game git gud or git out

>>3891160
>>3891163
Fuck off faggot, You're the delusional one thinking that because it's mechanically different automatically makes it a different game

Fuckin' Castlevania 4 is a remake of 1, it has different mechanics due to the whip being able to do a billion things
is it a different game?

jesus fucking christ, and I know it's the same fag from the other day

>>3891168
list the differences, I forget

>>3891181
>You're the delusional one thinking that because it's mechanically different automatically makes it a different game
But mechanics are literally what set games apart from one another. A game doesn't become identical to its predecessor just because the surface level fluff is the same.

>>3891191
we're saying it's a 3d remake
of course they're going to make the mechanics fit the medium, what we're saying is that it's literally the exact same game in 3d

>>3891202
>it's literally the exact same game in 3d
and with different controls, different items, different environments, different dungeons, different physics, significantly more movement and combat options, etc.

>>3891208
see >>3890356
which game is he talking about

>>3891212
Yes, like I said, the only real similarity is story structure.

>>3891214
IE, 3d remake with a new name slapped on it to make a "new game"
the different physics, significantly more movement and combat options that you pointed out are to fit the medium of 3d

>>3891217
I'm not sure you understand what "remake" or "exact same" means.

some of you people are beyond retarded.

if ocarina of time is a remake of a link to the past, then every final fantasy game is a remake of final fantasy 1.

>>3890356
Tell me which game I'm describing. Super Mario Bros. or Super Mario World.
>you're a red hat plumber
>princess gets kidnapped by bowser
>jump over platforms
>jump onto goombas
>jump over pirhana plants
>collect mushrooms to grow
>collect fire flower to shoot fire
>final battle involves destroying bowser
>you become reunited with the princess

>>3890324
Baaically, but I dont see why that's a problem. They took a winning formula and applied it to a new type of game at a time when 3d was rarely functional or pleasant on consoles.

Ocarina of Time is no more A Link to the Past in 3D than Metal Gear Solid is Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake in 3D.

>>3891051
Most people on the Internet now weren't alive when it came out and have no idea what a "badly aged" 3d game actually plays like

>>3891236
Mario 1, Mario 2 (JP), Mario 3, and Mario World
are pretty much the same game

Just prettier

>>3891248
All platformers are the same. I mean, you just jump around on platforms lol!

Lets reduce everything to its most shallow common denominator.

I believe OOT functioned much better as a giant tutorial for how 3d games are played/made, but has a lot of charm, a great soundtrack and the solic progression of its predecessor

>>3891242
>Metal Gear Solid isn't Metal Gear 2 in 3D
Yo're not helping your case here.

>>3890356
Hard to say. Do you mean story or game? Cause as a game they are much much different. Progression can be the same but it's laid in a way that's different. Especially when getting the Master Sword between each.

If Ocarina was literally ALttP we'd have ALttP including, mechanics, areas, and quests in 3D N64 style.

>>3891252
>what is story
>what Is blast processing

>>3891252
Think of mechanics and control. If you ignore that you must be the biggest casual. It's not what you make it's how you make it.

>>3891263
I agree with you and was obviously being facetious.

>>3891267
okay, after looking at it again I understand.

Saying "it's just ALttP in 3D" seems stupid because the 3D nature of OoT isn't merely aesthetic, it's used in a lot of the puzzles and movement. Even something simple like the magic bean plants.

>>3891284
NO U RETARD, LINK IS GREEN, THE GAME IS IDENTICAL

Star Fox 64 is literally the same game as Star Fox.

>>3891327
this

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Well no, it's a prequel to LttP in 3D.
It's the titular past that is being linked to.

>>3890324
Nah, A Link to the Past was better.

>>3891132
nah it was like that in /vr/ before the egoraptor video he only gave validation for those feelings.

I just want to preface this by saying i liked ALttP and OoT and played both around their release dates.

OoT borrows heavily from ALttP in it's story and how the game is layed out; that being said, is not exactly a "remake". Zelda games, for a very long time, were very very similar without much changing story or gameplay wise (Zelda needs to be rescued, you're the legendary hero, go into dungeons and collect the Mcguffin after beating the dungeon boss with the item you found in the dungeon). There's nothing wing with this, but to deny that ALttP and OoT share a ton of similarities is just disingenuous. Again, not the same game remade in 3D, but obviously very similar in story and design.

>>3890361
aren't they both just the future where Gannon won?

>>3891253
>soundtrack
You know that several of the songs in Ocarina Of Time originated from A Link To The Past, right?
>Kakariko Village theme
>Zelda's Lullaby
>Ganon's Castle theme

>>3891901
This

>>3890324
No because oot is actually good while alttp is a pos.

Links awakening > oot > alttp > majoras mask

>>3891229
shh, let them be retarded.

>>3891901
Remember, nostalgia babies don't know enough about ALTTP

What makes people like OOT so much? I remember hearing about the hype for this game and thought I was really in for a treat. But the game was boring, the awful n64 midi ruins the soundtrack, and it's a remake of a game I've already played? Granted there are some differences, but the basic story structure is the same.

>>3892643
>caring about the story in a zelda game when it's literally the least important part and only exists to pad the surface with fluff.

>>3892645
>he plays games without good stories
Kek'd

>>3892651
>games
>good stories
pick one

>>3892645
It's the Ganon origin story.

>>3891132

That surely helps but the fact that early 3D games tended to shove in loads of boring unskippable animations for you to wait for when you could be having fun probably has something to do with it too. Their tendency to look like crap also helped. Also that owl that gets in your way to make sure you can't have fun figuring out what to do by telling you what to do is crap. Also the horseriding is boring.

I mean it's a good enough game but it's a downgrade from the 2D Zelda games before it. If 3D Zelda is an especially good thing then some other game must be the one to prove it, not Ocarina of Time.

>>3891139

It's part of it I think. People do parrot Egoraptor on Castlevania IV, and AVGN on Castlevania II for that matter. But those critiques could easily enough be arrived at without YouTube's help as well, so who knows.

>>3891156

Seems like Japanese game designers love retelling the same story over and over, for some reason. I think maybe they are not very smart about stories.

>>3891229
>being this delusional
their stories are totally different as well as how you approach them
The only games that could be reconsidered remakes is FF3 and FF5 due to the class changing mechanic. but they're not even remotely similar story wise Unlike Zelda which is the exact same story and gameplay from LttP all the way up til Skyward Sword

>>3890357
The entrance to both is pretty similar.

To open Misery Mire you have to use the Ether Medallion in front of the entrance, similar to Din's Fire is used to open the Shadow Temple.

Once inside (both dungeons) the path goes forward, then right with a large hole in the hallway floor that must be hookshot'd over.

>>3893568
>their stories are totally different
>they're not even remotely similar story wise
They all involve a rag tag team of heroes/nobodies who end up having to save the world/universe from literal Gods and Angels. They all share themes heavily weighing upon life & death, they all share similar character archetypes and class abilities/composition.

>>3890356
>obtain the Master Sword and be immediately teleported to a corrupted alternate reality
Only happens in OoT.

>>3893595
They've still got vastly different stories,
The only re-occurring villain between them all is Gilgamesh looking for Excalibur.

>generic DnD campaign
>Star wars the original trilogy
>traveling to the real surface
>going to the moon
>getting warped to a new dimension
>literally the story of Superman
>ancient aliens
None of those are even remotely in common to me

>>3893648
Wow, so you mean I was only looking at it from an extremely ignorant and shallow point of view?

The irony!

>>3890324
>Is it really just Metal Gear 2 in 3d?

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>>3893674
Oof...

>>3893660
Ooh
Let's look at story on Zelda, see >>3890356

>>3891236
Isn't this Sonic The Hedgehog 1?

It's like poetry, it's sort of, they rhyme. Every stanza kind of rhymes with the last one.

Fucking idiots, learn the difference between a remake and a rehash. OOT is a rehash. OOT3D is a remake.

>>3893781
epic. simply epic.

>>3893781
see, but it doesn't matter what title we use, half the autists here will say that it's different gameplay and not care about the story, or come up with some sort of inane bullshit saying that it's not from X or Y
or bring up other games like >>3891229

>>3893676
...course it is.

>>3893842
>it's different gameplay and not care about the stor
But it is different gameplay, which is the only thing that matters. The story in a Zelda game is irrelevant. Nobody plays Zelda for the story.

>>3893648
>They've still got vastly different stories
No, not really. It's the same story over and over. The only differences are very on-the-surface. If you analyze them with any depth you'll see that they're all vastly similar and not nearly as original (in general) as fanboys pretend they are. The Japanese are masters of rehashing ancient stories and giving them facelifts.

Although Zelda stories are even more similar, their respective gameplay (aka the important part) differs from one another other far more than any Final Fantasy game differs from other Final Fantasy games. The whole Final Fantasy franchise is just selecting different words from menus, both in and out of combat.

>>3892657
But that's Skyward Sword.

>>3891191
The surface level fluff isn't the same in those games, its probably the only thing that changes. Everything deep like the core design elements and progression are identical. In those Zelda games you don't see a change as drastic as SMB3 to SMW

>>3894339
I literally described 3 of them from other mediums
Not looking for original stories, but more so that they're different, and they're different enough from each other that if you've played say 8, it's totally different from 4
SeeD is nothing like the Red Wings in terms of characterization or concept.

versus Ocarina of Time or Twilight princess

the only one that you'd play and feel like it was a different experience would be Majora's Mask, but that's because it's the weird one out. and BotW

>>3894359
>In those Zelda games you don't see a change as drastic as SMB3 to SMW
I can't tell if you're baiting or if you're actually this dumb. I want to go with the former for the sake of my outlook on humanity.

>>3894359
Yes, I agree Zelda stories are all extremely similar to one another, to the point that they could literally be cultural retellings of the same event in the same vein as Noahs ark.

Good thing plot is just about the least important part of Zelda.

>>3893676
Doesn't this belong in /org/?