>No second thumbstick despite the fact that literally every

>>3883307
The number of games you miss a second thumbs tick on is tiny as the games aren't built around it. Ergonomically it was fine and the vmu bought some neat ideas to the table, it's the second slot that gets in the way, it's a shame they couldn't integrate rumble and get rid of it. Of course the cable clips to the underside of the controller so that it points in a way that doesn't offend you but you know that already and are just being silly right? Unless you've never actually used the controller before.

>>3883307
>Is it reasonable to blame this disaster in large part for the failure of the Dreamcast?

I think awkward release timing and strong competition were the reasons the DC underperformed outside of Japan. Sega was kind of the odd man out at that point.

Only Sony had a dual analog controller by the time the DC was first released in 98.

>>3883329
And yet every subsequent console had two, or at least had one and a substitute for another.

Coincidence? Or just Sega being behind the curve?

>>3883329
this, and the standard FPS control scheme wasn't yet perfected

if anything the game pad lacks buttons, it has the same as the snes and less than the saturn

>>3883319
>Ergonomically it was fine
I've hated using one of them ever since I bought a DC back in 99. They've never felt comfortable to use for more than half an hour at a time.

>>3883332
The Gamecube and Xbox came out three years later. Yes, they had dual sticks, but don't try to act like it was the standard in 1998. The N64 was still going strong with its one sick at that time.

If anything, Sony were just ahead of the curve.

>>3883335
Sega had kb+m adaptors for most of the major fps titles anyway.

Sony's selling point: DVD and promise of past titles transferring over

That alone doomed the dreamcast. Even though the ps2 online services weren't really offered till FFIX.

>>3883353
Stop apologising for Sega's mistakes. Just admit they stuffed up and should have added a second stick.

>>3883358
It wasn't really a mistake though. The controller was ergonomic enough and only halo was was making true use out of the second stick before the dreamcast was irrelevant.

>>3883307
I think it's actually pretty comfortable in my hand, I like it for the most part. The d-pad is really lacking compared to the genesis and saturn, but it's not awful and I get used to it after a few minutes.

>>3883389
I never actually owned a Genesis for comparison, but I can definitely agree its not as good as the Saturn's was.

>>3883307
>Saturn had six face buttons and two shoulders
>Dreamcast has only four face buttons

but why tho

>>3883402
The saturn d-pad is a goddamned thing of beauty, undisputed GOAT. The revised model, not the shitty original.

>>3883307
>literally every other console manufacturer had by this point realised the benefits of one and was planning to make them standard going forward

The only console at the time with dual analog pads was the Playstation Dual Shock, and there were maybe 3 games total that supported the second analog stick. It was not a standard at the time. It wasn't until the PS2.

>Decided to go with the gimmicky VMU slot, forcing the cable to be run out of the bottom of the controller contrary

Sony and Nintendo both had it (N64 mem carts, rumble packs, Sony Pocketstations). It wasn't a bad idea, but the battery life sucked and everyone just bought aftermarket memory carts instead, which did not make your ears bleed whenever the battery was out.

The cable running on the bottom was pretty neat actually, and that way it did not bother your fingers resting on the triggers. And there was a notch on the controller so you can route the cable to the back anyway.

>Is it reasonable to blame this disaster in large part for the failure of the Dreamcast?

No, it failed because Sega had their reputation irreparably tarnished, EA gave them the finger, and everyone was saving up for the launch of the most anticipated electronics device on the planet (the PSX2). Then Sega ran out of money.

>>3883332
>And yet every subsequent console had two

They were copying the PS2, and Sony themselves just rehashed their Dual Shock.

>Coincidence? Or just Sega being behind the curve?

The DC came out five years before dual analog became the de facto standard.

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>>3883412
>The revised model, not the shitty original.

No, the other way around. The original was fine, but the revised 3d pad was horrible.

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>>3883423
I was talking about the original original, the abomination in pic related with the weird shoulder buttons that barely pressed and the weird concave d-pad.

I've never used the 3d controller. Played nights once for 15 minutes and hated it so I never bothered to get the oh-ficial controller to play it.

>>3883432
>I was talking about the original original,

The grey pad is the original. I dunno what the one you posted is. Must be some third party controller.

>>3883440
It was official. It was the first version released in the US/EU. So while it wasn't the true original, it was the first version seen outside of Japan.

>>3883445
Oh, so there was the original Japanese one, then they fucked it up overseas, then put it back the way it used to be?

Alright then.

>>3883456
Basically. That version was never used in Japan.

>>3883456
Apparently. I'm the guy that first made the saturn controller comment. The one with the d-pad that I really love looks like your gray pad, except its black.

>>3883319
>Ergonomically it was fine

No. Did you ever try have a proper online session playing Quake 3 Arena with that shit? A fucking nightmare of pain and frustration. The controller is awful and clunky. Even the triggers were pure ass.

If Sega released a 6 button gamepad controller for the genesis when was necessary, they could have released a dual stick DC controller had the Dreamcast lived longer.

>>3883490
Quake 3 was fine if you used the analog for aiming and face buttons for movement, just took some getting used to. And the triggers were great for racing games.

>>3883474
Yeah.

I had only assumed the overseas Saturn changed the color scheme on the controllers, like how the Super Famicom had that purple motif over here. I was unaware they redesigned the whole thing like that.

Learn something new every day, I guess.

>>3883307

>godawful D-pad
>Stick was looser than a taiwanese hooker
>start button at the bottom instead of the middle, had to put effort into just pausing the game
>curved bar at the bottom would hinder your grip on the handles at the sides

what was sega thinking?

>>3883307
Dual analog was a new idea at the time, though? It was probably considered questionable usefulness, since its functions can often simply be mapped to the shoulder buttons. Of course, it eventually one out when full 3D worlds became the norm and it was really useful for camera movement.

In any case, the Dreamcast controller was pretty comfy. The console had issues, but the controller wasn't one of them.

>>3883432
The shoulder buttons were garbage but I prefer everything else on the model 1 controller to the model 2. Think I'm the only one tho. Either way both the model 1+2 Saturn controllers are God tier.

There is literally nothing wrong with the Dreamcast.

>>3883307
>Is it reasonable to blame this disaster in large part for the failure of the Dreamcast?
>Shitty retro controllers thread, I guess.

No that is not "reasonable", you are a fucking idiot.

>No second thumbstick despite the fact that literally every other console manufacturer had by this point realised the benefits of one and was planning to make them standard going forward

What sort of an utterly retarded "point" is this? That's possibly the stupidest argument I have EVER seen on /vr/, are you 12 years old or something? Dual analogues were NOT out at that point, NOBODY knew whether they would be successful or not, at the time the dreamcast was being designed NO OTHER manufacturer had realized anything like that. You've obviously just invented this out of thin air "planning to make them standard going forward".

All your other points are completely false and inaccurate as well, but the first one is the most stupid claim I've ever heard about anything.

>>3883307
>>No second thumbstick despite the fact that literally every other console manufacturer had by this point realised the benefits of one and was planning to make them standard going forward
which consoles exactly? - not including the N64

>>3883432
I prefered this to the psx controller,

until they brought out the dual analogue, The Saturn had a better controller than the psx

>>3884457
The console itself is pretty loud. The controllers do get to be uncomfortable during long play sessions, as well as some of the design shortcomings mentioned already in this thread.

>>3884497
Please take a few deep breaths. It's just video games.

>>3883332
>And yet every person born after me is younger than me
>Coincidence or vast underage conspiracy?!?!?!?
lel

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>>3883307
>and the Geneva convention

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Thread can be closed. This is the worst piece of shit controller ever designed. It's just uncomfortable. WTF is up with having 3 things to hold onto. It makes no sense. It's designed for alien hands and people with 3 hands. It's seriously the worst thing ever. Try to bluepill me about it.

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>>3884854

>>3884854
fuck off, it's not that bad. see >>3884862

>>3884862
The first and second pics are for kids with tiny hands. People past the age of 8 can't get their hands into that tiny little middle section to hold the freaking analog controller.

Not to mention the fact that the analog controller is so poorly made and imprecise that it brought down every single game that used it.

>>3884898
>People past the age of 8 can't get their hands into that tiny little middle section
Sleep tight lanklet

>The analog controller is so poorly made and imprecise
Basically the opposite of truth. It has fewer deadzones than any console controller analogue stick since due to its unique sensing technology (which unfortunately also requires the stick to physically rub against the sensor causing long-term durability issues).

I'm guessing you were born in 1999 and never handled an N64 controller that wasn't second hand due to your age.

>>3884913
>fewer deadzones
What? The ENTIRE OUTER PART OF THE DAMN CONTROLLER is a deadzone. You're basically "controlling" using a tiny little zone in the fucking center of this thing.

I'm guessing YOU were born in 1995 and the N64 was your first goddamn console so you are horribly biased. I'm probably older than your mom and therefore know my shit about gaming because I grew up with the birth of fucking gaming. I don't have fucking retro rose-tinted glasses even about the goddamn Atari 2600, let alone the shit N64.

Fuck's sake, kids.

>>3884919
Calm down, gramps.

>>3884934
Grandpa, please, take your medicine. Go back to sleep. You get cranky when you wake up too early.

>>3884919

I fully agree with this guy. You are little kids who think they know everything better and try to brag about AGE because that's all you have while the N64 controller is a terrible piece of shit. Holding it like frame 1 or 2 is also annoying as fuck. Say you play Duke Nukem 3d or the PRETTY GOOD Doom on N64 I believe you need the C buttons or cross for switching weapons. Now if I need EVERY button NO PICTURE applies to me unless you switch the hand position EVERY SECOND. WOW so much fun. The N64 was a mistake. It's a piece of shit with disgusting to look graphics back when it came out. Seriously nowadays you kids can say "It looked amazing back then!". I was already disgusted when it came out. So the games are shit and so is the controller. I stuck to my NES and SNES and never progressed much from that point on beyond.

>>3885145
>the PRETTY GOOD Doom on N64 I believe you need the C buttons or cross for switching weapons

t. literally somebody too stupid to find the control remapping option

>>3885145
How mad do you get in real life at actual problems? Jesus fucking Christ man, calm down.

>>3885145
>I believe you need the C buttons or cross for switching weapons
You believe wrong. Not surprising. Little kids like you believe all sorts of stupid shit.

I don't think the controller did it any favors, but I think the Dreamcast died long before the ramifications of lacking a second stick could be fully realized anyway.

So we have a bunch of N64 fanboy kids here. If you love your N64 so much, why don't you get a room together? The SNES has an amazing controller.

>>3884919
Deadzones refer to the actual analog sticks ability to pick up inputs, it has nothing to do with whatever you think it is. Youre going on some huge autistic tirade for a topic you dont even understand lmao.
Go google deadzones in controllers and come back when you actually know anything

>>3885749
Talking to yourself and getting mad is always the superior, mature path to follow. You are doing god's work out here, brother. Stay strong.

>>3883337
Yeah, I'm with you. I love the console to death but it gets harder to go back to every year. At the time, though, I was comparing it to the N64 controller and it felt lightyears ahead.

360 controller spoiled me on everything else forever. :/

>>3883319
this. Same with PSP. People always rant about the lack of second stick (particular with PSP due to dual sticks being a common thing in sixth gen) but people tend to forget that most of those games were designed with that in mind.

>>3884862
do you know some game ever using the second scheme? I can't remember any example, and I'm even thinking about minigames with silly and experimental schemes, like the Mario Party or Pokémon Stadium ones

>>3887252
I have to agree. The only time I recall the missing stick really fucking a game over was when they made those Ratchet games on PSP

>>3887281
also, is fun how lacking one stick, PSP's Daxter has way better camera than any game on J&D trilogy. Being able to rotate the camera with your index using L and R makes your right thumb free to rock main buttons like a bastard.

>>3887289
Yeah L and R works fine for cameras if the controls are set up just right.

Also, regarding the thread subject: Does anyone have experience with any third party controllers for the Dreamcast? Any you'd say are better than the default?

>>3887305
Concave-sticked madcatz are pretty good other than feeling a bit cheap on the button and trigger side.

>>3887320
Oh my. It certainly does look cheap, but the grips seem nice.

>>3883418
So, you're okay with the Nintendo Switch having a charging port at the bottom of the tablet?

>>3884913
Deadzones are often controlled by software. Some PS1 games actually let you set the deadzones yourself. I believe Ace Combat 3 can even let you set it to basically zero deadzone, which is actually a bad thing because the game will detect input if your sticks aren't perfectly centered.