Framemeister or OSSC?

Different devices with different uses and different downsides.

>>3876206
Both, of course.

>>3876206
Buy a PROPER fucking tv set with good deinterlacing and scaling built-in. Stop buying off-brand chinese shit.

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>>3876237
>off-brand Chinese shit

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>>3876237
>He knows what he's talking about

Neither, just get a CRT.

Dvdo
No one say they can't get one, because the used market is full of decent to great scalers. All our games are used so what's the difference?

>>3876294
Came here to post this.

>>3876319
They're as much as a mememeister after shipping (if you can find one of the models that actually works for retro) and not as good.

>>3876294
i agree, but a lot of people dont have space

>>3876334
Small CRTs take up no more space than a single game console and a modest assortment of games. I really don't understand the space argument.

>>3876334
Almost anyone can fit a 5", 9", or 13" CRT in their living space. I live in a tiny one bedroom apartment with my girlfriend and I have a 13" on a bookshelf/stand next to the HDTV and a 5" on my desk. Literally anyone can manage it and they're literally free (and have significantly better performance) as opposed to $300+ for a scaler.

>>3876329
Vp30 with delinterlacing card can be had for 2-250 if you don't hop on the buy it now bandwagon, last time I checked.
That's not $400+.
That setup is pretty much as good with some minor artifacts like slight ringing that you won't even notice unless your face is on the screen.

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>>3876569
>tfw I got popped to the post on a £30 VP50 Pro last week

>>3876712
*pipped

Gotta quit phoneposting dammit

>>3876341
Not the same anon but,

>I don't want a bulky huge CRT
How can you not understand this? Its not really an "argument" as much as it is an opinion.
And if your counter argument is getting a small CRT, well then, what if I want to play on a nice bigger-than-small screen that doesnt take up a shit ton of space and isnt killing my back everytime I have to move it? I don't get it.

People have different opinions for a reason, deal with it. I'm sickin tired of hearing about all this CRT master race bullshit, I agree that they are appealing, and I think the majority of people on this board would gladly own a nice 32" Component CRT if they had the luxury to do so while first and foremost fullfilling their other desires.

Some people (myself included) just like the sharp pixels once in a while, no biggie

>twf 52" rear projection unit
>DLP
>3 comp/s video, 2 component, 2 HDMI
>1080p, no delay when switching between 240p and 480p
>1.5 frames lag

If only color calibration didn't take half the fucking day

>>3876206
C) None of the above

>>3876341
firstly kill yourself namefag.

some people prefer larger screens - larger CRTs are massive.

>>3876416
5" ??? Even 9" is ridiculously small . 13" is fucking pushing it. I'd rather have a high end consumer crt closer to 30"

>>3876206

Haven't ever used ossc, but framemeister works very well. 13" crts are cool but sometimes you just want to play on the 55" oled

>>3876341
Ask your wifes sons mom about the benefits of space savings by having a single shitty emulation console connected to an LCD and an entire wall of carts because the emushit can't play ROMs.

Neither. Buy a fucking CRT

Get a crt. But if you have to go with ossc. Much cheaper, great quality and very fast

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>>3877037
>sometimes i just want to play meme rpgs on the 55" oled

Why would you buy a meme upscaler that adds input lag, when you could use an emulator which will upscale better, and be free, and also add less input lag.

>>3877579
>Why would you buy a meme upscaler that adds input lag
OSSC is pretty much lag free though??

>>3877595
it's also not a scaler, though.

>>3877579
ossc isn't a scaler, and framemeister isn't adding lag.

don't confuse those two with your average 30 dollar chinkshit converter.

>>3877626
>and framemeister isn't adding lag.
It actually has lag.

>>3877010
Then buy a house and get one. 5" and 9" are quite usable when you're sitting directly in front of them. I can use my 13" from my couch without issue. 30" is ludicrous, considering you probably didn't even have one that large as a child. I think the biggest CRT I ever saw as a kid was a 27" and the biggest my family had was 24". Subjective opinions remain subjective, yours and mine.
>>3877579
Emulating has as much if not more lag than using a scaler.

>>3877626
>framemeister isn't adding lag
Top kek kid

>>3877010
13" isn't that bad. That's the size I have and I've got a little corner area set up with a couple arm chairs a little over 4 feet from the screen and it's fine. I was worried I'd need something much bigger but I really don't.

>>3876206
One is available, the other is not.

>>3876416
>Almost anyone can fit a 5", 9", or 13" CRT in their living space.

Those are useless for anything though. I have a 19" one and even on that I can barely play games because the screen is just too fucking small.

>>3878234
One is open source, so you can build it yourself.

15" is objectively the best size CRT for small space but 20" is the best in general. Anything bigger is unwieldly and heavy and just extravagant.

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My desk is pretty small and I could squeeze a BVM 14G5Uin it. Too bad I can't find anyone here to RGB mod my NES. Maybe one of these scalers will be the solution

>>3878237
>One is open source, so you can build it yourself.

The components and the required tools to build one cost much more than the other.

>>3878237
>you can build it yourself
I once fucked up a build-your-own theremin kit, never again.

>>3878276
>can't find anyone
Why can't you do it yourself?

>>3878313
Because you can see from the picture that he is retarded.

>>3878334
>Everybody needs to know precise soldering skills because 4chan says so

Kek I'm not obliged to have a degree in electronics engineering faggot. The nes is connected to the LCD ,because I was testing how the internal scaler and comb filter would handle the NES signal. Of course a proper upscale or linedobler would treat such low res signals in a better way

>>3878367
As someone with degree in electrical engineering, I can certainly tell you that you don't need any special education or experience for basic soldering.

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>>3878367
>NESRGB is difficult soldering.

I'm taking a trip to Japan later this year and I'm curious about the framemeister. Is it remotely possible or realistic to find a used one over there for a lot less? Where's the best place you might find one if so (assume Tokyo area)?

>>3876737
Finally someone gets it.

>>3876737
>>3878637
But what's wrong with a small CRT? How many other people are you sharing your retro gaming experience with? Are they so concerned with upscaling they need to be looking at the CRT too? Just let them think the reason you're beating them is 100% skill why not.

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>>3878654

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crt, you the real meme

>>3878654
>But what's wrong with a small CRT?

That it's small and you can't see fuck all of the game on it?

>>3878623
No.

>>3878654
CRTfag here. There are many things wrong with a small CRT but let's start with the one you mentioned. I might be sharing my "retro gaming experience" with a dozen people playing a SSB tournament. Or maybe only 10 playing bomberman. Or only 4 with dozens of other games. Or maybe only 1 with light guns. A small CRT isn't good in any of these scenarios.

Not everyone wants to hunch over a PVM in the basement playing alone.

>>3878737
this
this fucker doesnt get it

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>>3878973
Why do you have it somewhere requiring hunching? Why do you not also have a large display for those additional players who don't care about delay?

>retro gamer
>doesnt play on a crt

>>3879036
Hey guys you can use those lcd tvs over there, but im going to hunch over my pvm. Hmm

>>3878623
Sorry but no, I live in Tokyo and they became extinct a good while back and I hear they company making them is gonna move on to new products and wont be printing any more.

>>3879036
What do you not understand when people say "i do not like this" or "i do not want to do this"?
CRTs and Flat screen both have their respective pros and cons (although i can see your LCD only has cons). Its a fucking opinion, and threads like this exist so people prefering one over the other have somewhere to talk without stupid fucks that only play on crts because they were told to on the internet come and stick their nose in.

Why get something that you don't wanna get? You can't argue with opinion and this "discussion" is going nowhere.

>>3879106
disclaimer: I do not dislike CRTs, I have owned a fair amount over the years when my living situation has allowed it. I just don't see the appeal being worth getting one over what i currently play on.
Also, this is a thread on upscalers, CRTs already have one or two generals up, go there

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>>3879106
It's plasma

>>3876206
Apparently there's going to be a new version of the Framemeister released in a year or two(presumably with support for 4k), I'd recommend waiting for that to be released instead of buying a Framemeister now, on the other hand the OSSC is arguably the more /vr/ device since it adds absolutely zero input lag

>>3878236
Really? Are you legally blind? 13" TVs were really, really popular when CRTs were a thing, and so were 9"ers. I mean I don't care if people don't get CRTs, I do most of my playing with a hacked Wii and a Wii to HDMI adapter. I plan on getting a mememeister at some point, but my few CRTs and Wii rig for my HDTV are doing the trick for now.

>>3879036
I don't have any CRT anywhere requiring hunching. I also have large displays. But I wouldn't play on the CRT with others on an LCD. If anyone would play with you you'd quickly learn how retarded that is.

>>3879832
It's not a new version, they are just re-releasing it with new parts since they ran out of production.

>>3879975
Has this been confirmed?

>>3879041
I play on both.
The majority of my setup runs on a plasma with scaler. To the side I have a pvm with a couple consoles, namely 8 bit, that I am currently playing on.

You guys argue so much of this shit. It's ridiculous. Who cares what others do in their own homes to play games?

>>3879968
I do it all the time. For a long time they didn't even realize I was looking at the CRT but now on competitive games they actually bitch about it being an unfair advantage and I have to turn it off.

>>3879932
This. They act like we're the ones being unreasonable

>>3880042
>They act like we're the ones being unreasonable
Try playing 4 player splitscreen on a 13" and under screen.

>>3880048
>implying any one of has 4+ friends to play retro with

>>3879985
Sort of. The main IC was discontinued by the maker. They are creating one last batch of orders that will ship through the year. With the news of it being discontinued, demand immediately shot up, and places like Solaris can only take 3 month late preorders. The thing sells on ebay for $500 now.

There has been no news about a new type of XRGB being made, anywhere.

So, there are no proper scalers available anymore for a reasonable price.

>>3880068
:(

I really hope they see the value in this market and continue doing their thing. I missed the boat since I don't NEED one right now, but I will eventually for sure.

>>3880068
>So, there are no proper scalers available anymore for a reasonable price.


>more and more tells come without analog inputs
>good scalers with digital output are going extinct
fml

>>3880048
I played hundreds of hours at 4 player Goldeneye on a 21" Thomson made RCA. It was considered medium big at the time and got lots of praise for its sharpness even at 1/4 screen. The only 4 player split screen retro game I play regularly now is GC PSO and we do play it on the plasma in progressive scan from the Wii.

>>3880078
The market is so small that it is unlikely anyone will bother, it is simply not economical to make a huge batch of scalers and sell them cheap. So you are stuck with low production numbers and high prices.

>>3880123
I mean that's to be expected, I'm just saying I hope they don't drop the product line (or similar) entirely.

>>3880089
>i play 4 player split screen with my imaginary friends

>>3876206
Get a CRT you knob.

>>3880550
and family - unless you mean back in the day when I was excessively popular.

>>3876416
>>3877010

5" CRTs are cute. CUTE!


>>3879090

The main IC is being discontinued, that's why they will have to stop making them.

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>>3882660

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>>3876334
>have room for a dozen standard definition consoles, shelves of cartridges and disc cases, tons of controllers, other peripherals, etc
>don't have enough room for a TV

Bullshit. Fucking bullshit. And the space argument is a fucking meme anyway. For decades people somehow were able to have CRTs and this wasn't an issue. Furthermore, they don't actually take up much more space than a modern flat screen when you consider the fact that regardless of what type of TV you're using, it's most likely going to be on some sort of entertainment center ANYWAY. The actual footprint of your entertainment center and setup doesn't actually get any bigger with a CRT vs a flat screen (and you can put shit on top of a CRT, fwiw)

I just don't see why anyone would want to open up the can of worms that comes along with getting a framemeister or other upscaler.

>>3882709
>this is how the developers intended it to be played

>>3882709
hell yeah

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>>3882764
kek, I have a 13" on the other side of the room. The real reason I have it set up is that CRT whine drives my girlfriend fucking insane, and that little guy for whatever reason makes no noise. I don't know if it's because it's B&W? My 5" PVM screams.

>>3883383
>other side of the room
That's like 3 feet away in a basement that size.

I can see the argument against OSSC/framemesiter for smaller screens. But once you start desiring playing on a big screen these are almost a necessity.

CRTs bigger than 36 inches are few and far between. Additionally they are large, heavy and awkward to move.

Nowadays you can get 42inches+ for a reasonable price especially if you buy used. Add an OSSC/Framemeister and you can get a beautiful big picture.

I picked up a 60inch 720p Plasma for $100 buchs on craigslist and got a framemeister just before the price spiked. For ~400 I have a gorgeous and big mancave set up.

The worst part about it is not knowing what to do with Gamecube/Xbox/PS2.

GC+component cables+framemeister is actually a bit disappointing. If you want to take advantage of scanlines with the GC I've found best results using component cables for 480i and throwing scanlines over it.

But BOY, Genesis-N64 are gorgeous in that size with scanlines.

>>3876737
fuck you

>just get a CRT!
You cannot buy brand new CRT's
PVM's/BVM's are even more expensive than a Framemeister and OSSC combined
Second hand CRT's are now getting really old, and have probably been used for a few 10's of thousands of hours.

Can anyone comment on general OSSC performance with the SNES? I hear you can get 1080p now but it's cropped. What about 720p on a 1080p/4K screen? How's that?

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>>3885581
>PVM's/BVM's are even more expensive than a Framemeister and OSSC combined

>>3885587
it's true, but even if it weren't, they're still super hard to find and there's every likelihood that if you do find one it's been thrashed out.

>>3885581
read the wiki
everything above 480i/p is output in slightly non-standard way and fully depends on if your TV can handle that

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For those who own an OSSC, what capture cards/devices do you use that work with the OSSC's line triple/quadruple/quintuple modes?

I use an Avermedia capture card, but it doesn't like the OSSC's off-spec resolutions. I can view/play with it just fine, but I can't capture footage.


P.S. I want a 20-24" BVM ... but living in the middle of nowhere means they are a thing of myth to me.

>>3887698
The solution is simple but the world doesn't need another twitch whore so no.

>>3885607
>it's true
>literally not true

>>3887849
When buying a tv, I'd rather buy new
If not, I'd like some assurance that it isn't about to die on account of having been used for 30,000 hours

Which Framemeister do I buy for Australia? JP21 or EUR? I see 4 variants, I assume the EU tax free version is irrelevant (although I might be paying with my UK account).
I guess JP21 would be better for a super Famicom?

>>3887923
>Australia
Doesn't matter. As long as you turn it upside down it will fit in. But you might want to make sure the version you get works with your non australian shit you're using in australia.

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>>3887825
Twitch whores can be fascinating.


>>3887923
Euro SCART and JP21 just determines the pinouts of the cables. Just pick one and stick with one. I suggest Euro SCART since there are many more options available for that format. They both function essentially the same, it's just that you don't want to be sending 5V down a line which is not expecting 5V. There is no better for one system or another.

>>3888004
so a super famicom would still work with euro scart?

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>>3888008
Yes, "Euro SCART" just the cable pinout ...

The video signal comes out of the multi-out port. The end of the RGB cable is your choice for what each of the the 21 pins are ... the common ones are either Euro SCART or JP21. That end goes into a converter cable that goes into the mini RGB in port of the framemeister.

Back in the day, I went with JP21 because that was what was available to me. I stuck with it. Now that more people are interested in RGB, it seems EuroSCART caught on more, so there are more options available for that format now.

>>3887917
>moving goalposts
>still making shit up

wew buy whatever u want bb

>>3888004
>Twitch whores can be fascinating
18+ sport. And I'm not talking about the gurl.

What's the wait time for an OSSC?
Does 720p/960p still look good on a 1080p/4K TV?

>>3877646
Is it the sort of lag that even normies would notice?

>>3877740
Emulating has as much if not more lag than using a scaler
Is this really true? I've never noticed lag in any emulators

Is the price for a Framemeister still 'spiked'? Looks like they're around £260 while I remember them recently being around £400. Is £260 reasonable?

CRT faggots pls go and stay go.

>Framemeister or OSSC?
They're not really comparable.

OSSC is an RGB/YCbCr-only solution that requires a decent amount of technical knowledge to use, has no sound support by default, doesn't deal well with 480i content, and has compatibility issues with many TVs and certain popular consoles. You're only likely to get 480p out of it, or 720p if you're lucky. The benefit to dealing with all this is a very good ADC and zero latency.

Framemeister is a plug-and-play solution that accepts most types of inputs, works with all TVs, does a good job of deinterlacing 480i content, and scales well to 1080p at the cost of 20ms of latency. It's also pricier than the OSSC, though the gap narrows considerably if you include the audio support board for the OSSC.

How technically inclined are you? Are all your consoles capable of RGB/component output? How much is that frame-and-a-bit of latency worth to you?

>>3891742
The latency added by emulators can be enormous; we're talking several times the latency added by a Framemeister. Snes9x and Higan, for example, add 4-5 frames of latency. Whether you notice it depends on what kinds of games you're playing and, frankly, how skilled you are. For example, I can play Super Metroid at a fairly high level and I find emulators nearly unusable for that game. But I can play ALttP in an emulator just fine because it's a slower game and I'm not as good at it.

>>3891774
>>3891742
only shit emulators add lag. MAME and bsnes for example are legendarily bad at it, but with FBA, Kawaks and ZSNES I don't remember ever having any lag.

>>3891774
Thanks for this, I had been turned off the Framemeister due to the idea it was 'adding lag', but if it's actually better than emulation (which I can't detect lag for anyway) then it might be fine.
Is the current price from the micomsoft/solaris site considered back to normal following the recent spike?

>>3891776
ZSNES has about 2 frames of lag, comparable to Wii VC (but still more than an original console and a Framemeister). It's also too inaccurate to be usable, unfortunately.

>>3891785
Looks like it's listed at the normal price at Solaris Japan, but it's not in stock yet. You used to be able to get them cheaper at Amazon.co.jp (which is what I did), but it's all resellers at jacked up prices right now. Once the final batch comes in, the price might go back to normal temporarily until they sell out again.

>>3891793
do we know when the final batch is expected?

>>3891807
Solaris Japan lists the release date as June 28th, but Micomsoft hasn't said anything officially as far as I can tell, so who knows.

>>3876294
This, but there are some assholes there who prefer HDTVs.
Framemeister is better but I wish they make a 4K version soon for perfect scaling for 240p and Game Boy.
8K will theoretically give us perfect scaling for most, if not everything but it's too far away from happening for now.

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>>3892317
>240p line-multiplied and scaled to 8K

>>3892389
It would look literally no different from 240p line-multiplied to 4k or even 720p. That's kind of the point.

>>3892394
yes, that's why I'm also looking forward to it, dipshit.

>>3876206
Emulate with retroP and native 240 output.

>>3892317
>there are some assholes there who prefer HDTVs.

yeah, it's such an asshole thing to prefer a 50" flat screen instead of a 20" one that takes up a quarter of the room.

>>3892451
>has never seen a crt
>crts r fukn huge man

>>3893580
>>3892451

If you want to play at a distance and enjoy the art/animation then large screen size matters to you. Large CRTs are huge, heavy, and odd sizes- which makes them difficult to move/transport.

If you know you are going to move in the next few years & want retrogaming on a big flat screen a framemeister/ossc is much better than a large CRT.

>>3896051
If you think you're going to move out of your parents basement in the next few years you're only fooling yourself.

>>3891680
bump

>>3878276
>Too bad I can't find anyone here to RGB mod my NES
you in the /crt/ discord? shout out i can help

>>3891680
AFAIK you can buy one right now if you were on the mailing list.

You might want to wait, though. Another guy is working on an alternative board that seems like a far better layout.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59525

>>3897778
I wasn't on the mailing list
>alternative board
I'm not fussed about how it looks, I just want it to work with my SNES, and possibly N64

>>3897790
It's less about looks and more about convenience, particularly on the audio side. The original OSSC board wasn't really designed with audio in mind. But if you don't need audio over HDMI, the original should work fine.

>>3897879
ah i didn't notice that the one you linked has HDMI out. That would be nice. But there's still the issue of when it's available and how much it will cost.
I take it that with the standard OSSC, you need DVI to HDMI, whilst running standard analogue audio to the TV?

>>3897919
Yep, exactly. You can get an audio add-on board, but it's somewhat expensive, and the port layout isn't well suited to dealing with audio (e.g. you can't have both SCART and line-in audio sources connected at the same time, even if one is powered off).

>>3897939
understood.
So at this point I could order a standard OSSC, which I could be waiting months (?) to get given I'm not on the mailing list.

Or I could wait for this HDMI version, which could take even longer to get?

Also I'm still not clear on how OSSC looks on a 1080p or 4K TV when using a 720p or 960p output, compared to a Framemeister. I don't want cropped '1080p'.

>>3892404
>>3892394
>>3892389
The higher your res the better options you have for scaling though while maintaining perfect integer pixel scales for the cleanest image and best scrolling.

To get pixel perfect 4:3 scaling on an NES/Fami for instance you want the pixels to be 7 pixels tall for each 8 wide.

240 pixel tall NES means you ideal want a screen that can fit either of the following vertically (preferably being as close as possible to either one)
7*240 = 1680
14*240 = 3360

>>3897778
that would be the third OSSC-version, kek.

hell yeah, fragmentation!

>The HDMI connector faces towards the back instead of the side.
>SCART is the only connector on the side. The SCART cable elbow exits towards the back.

SHUTUPANDTAKEMYMONEY

>I think your real question is concerning HDMI licensing. I am going to build it and see what happens.

Fight da powa.

>>3897980
>Also I'm still not clear on how OSSC looks on a 1080p or 4K TV when using a 720p or 960p output, compared to a Framemeister. I don't want cropped '1080p'.
AFAIK If you want to use OSSC's "weird" output-modes at line3x and line4x, and your tv can't really handle them, you're SOL without a proper scaler like the xrgb anyway.

If that thing just had an optional framebuffer for scaling/letterboxing the signal into a proper resolution, everything would be so fine.

>>3898193
Then it'd just be an XRGB-3.

>>3898193
I've seen pictures of people using an OSSC on a modern HDTV, with SNES, NES, N64 etc.The image takes up the whole screen while maintaining the aspect ratio, looking sharp and clean, and uncropped. I presume this is probably the '720p' mode?

Neither option is cheap here, I just want to buy one of them and have it be the right choice, but I'm willing to gamble on whether my TV will accept these non-standard signals

>posted 10 days ago
wow

>>3898231
ossc's output of everything over 480p is non-standard.
I guess you can't know if your tv-set supports it unless you connect a ossc to it.

>>3898223
but actually available, a bit more affordable and extensible.
and not (soon to be) EOL, unlike the framemeister

>>3898245
>but actually available
XRGB3 is available right now at Solaris

https://solarisjapan.com/collections/micomsoft/products/xrgb-3-upscan-converter-unit-micomsoft

>>3898245
The output depends on the input. Give it an input with a resolution and timing that scales to a standard output and it'll output a standard signal.

>>3898513
>Give it an input with a resolution and timing that scales to a standard output and it'll output a standard signal.

>NOTE: 3x/4x/5x do not generate standard 720p/960p/1080p/1200p CEA/VESA modes (total lines, pixels per line), so they are generally accepted only by monitors and not by many consumer TVs.
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=OSSC#240p.2F288p_proc

btfo

>>3898458
Read your own link?

>As of January 2016 Micomsoft has stopped production of the XRGB 3 Upscan Converter. Once our current stock has been sold, it will stay sold out indefinitely.

>>3898526
Out of production but they still have them in stock numbnuts.

>>3898521
Well that sucks.

>>3878276

>That ed64plus

Welcome to the family

>>3881275

With asians

>>3885581

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND5wimOlhqM
I thought this was a good review of recent firmware and higher resolutions, but not SNES.

I'm also interested in SNES support. I think I will have to mod or buy a premodded SNES for the better outputs.

>>3891680
A few months maybe. Mine is being shipped soon ( I signed up to the list in early December). It depends on how they're into a cycle. I would have had it a few weeks sooner without audio chip addition.

>>3899836
I don't know much about this SNES timing issue, but I'm debating between modding my PAL SNES for 60HZ vs buying a Super Famicom.
I've heard if you do a 60Hz PAL mod (e.g. SuperCIC) that it's not the same kind of 60Hz that comes from a Super Famicom.
I wonder which option would work better with an OSSC, or perhaps if a modded PAL SNES would even work at all?

>>3899876
Just get a modded wii

>>3899876
Modded PAL will definitely have more issues. Get a real NTSC one for sure.

>>3899890
You mean like the officially modded NTSC SNES I have that has no issues? But yeah. I'm sure you know more about this then Nintendo. lel