VII

Same reason why Star Wars survived a fascination for decades next to other sci-fi films. It's big, loud and flashy, it was big-budgeted and technically marvelous, and has a compelling set of heroes with an easy-to-grasp, yet far-reaching story.

There's no such thing as objective appeal really. The simplest answer is that it's the game that used the excitement about the jump to 3D to significantly broaden the worldwide JRPG player base, not to mention blowing the mind of the existing fanbase.

Of course, the excitement over 3D also extended to the developers working on it and the story clearly reflects a fresh angle even if the mechanics are almost straight out of 6.

The feel of the game got kind of diluted since 8 is quite derivative plus a lot of other publishers trying to imitate it but 7 will always be the RPG that touched off the revolution.

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>>3848324
>>3848325
first posts best posts

>>3848324
>original Star Wars
>big budget
Hi, underage.

Anyway, OP, it's because the game was a massive visual breakthrough in terms of cinematics, and it came along at just the right time.

I played FFVII on the PC without prior JRPG experience and the technology didn't make any difference to me. I loved it for its story.

the materia system was fun, I also remember using morph on every enemy and writing down which ones turned into stat sources (those rhyno tanks turned into power sources I think)
I used every power source on cloud just so he could keep using the buster sword with 255 str

>>3848440
>It was my first JRPG
See? Even today, twenty years later the buzz continues to lead people to have their first RPG experience with it.

Not that it has anything short of an A+ story that's only a bit cliche because of all the imitation (and satire) over the last 2 decades.

POST THE FINAL FANTASY GAMES YOU BEAT IN ORDER OF COMPLETION

8
7
T
4
9
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2
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5


POST YOUR FAVORITE
8
X
T

>>3848321
>what *is* the appeal

The game didn't place uneven emphasis on either gameplay or storytelling. Both departments were thoroughly well developed, which might have been a first for Squaresoft.

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>>3848321

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>>3848321
You'll hear much made about it being "babby's first JRPG" but that applies to the rest of the franchise too, with the only exception being IX since nobody played that back then. Before I first played it a few years ago I expected it to be something akin VIII; nothing more than an overlong fart of melodrama, angst and development so predictable even a child should see coming miles away, not to mention a ridiculously contrived and contradictory plot that took itself way too seriously. I was quite surprised at how goofy and silly a lot of the game was especially in the first disc, and that unlike its spinoffs/sequels didn't take itself more seriously than terminal cancer and knew when to cut loose and have fun with itself. I can't speak for everyone but I really liked the story and characters, the only possible exception being Sephiroth who was kinda lame as a villain. I also really liked the gameplay especially the materia system, the only real problem I had was that it was a bit too on the easy side. I'll admit I haven't played the whole series (I still have to play the SNES games) but out of the ones I have played (VII-XIII) I thought VII had overall the best of both worlds.

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- The enthusiasm, ambition, and spirit of the developers is very apparent throughout

- The themes continue to become more relevant as time passes, and they hit on some really elevated ideas:
>The degredation of the human spirit in corrupt, corporatist societies; the inescapable, imposing nature of those corporate entities/governments
>The longing for "an answer from the planet...the promised land" amongst such a world
>The question of modern humanity's worth (with no trivial answer given)
>The idea, too rarely depicted, that death is not something to be glorified
>The human need for a dependable structure of love and support; Depression, the devastating effects of losing your own self-worth, of yielding to your worst impulses, and the oft-unsuccessful struggle to regain oneself
>The idea that in spite of everything, hope in a spiritual rebirth/delivery may not be a waste of time; death may not have the final word over life

-The story ISN'T spoonfed to you, but it is explained to the thorough player. The unreliable narrator approach is compelling.

-The end of Disc 1 is huge

-The presentation (music, atmospheric elements) drive everything home and do just as much expressing as the dialog. It's ambitious, but not pretentious. It also has this psychedelic quality that sticks out among video games. It's memorable.

-It's fun.

Some people go in with the right mindset to get floored by this game, some don't.

>>3848321
It's fun, what else matters?
https://youtu.be/ixFjDrtd1e4

>>3848524
NONE OF THEM

FINAL FANTASY 1

>>3848606
I remember I picked up XIII after my friend hyped it up. I got it used for like, 12 bucks.

And, I had all these fond memories of my time spent at the Golden Saucer on FF7.

So, naturally whey they introduce that town in FFXIII that I can't even remember the name of, but present it as Golden Saucer 2.0, I'm fucking hype as fuck.

Then, it turns out it's just some nigger drama scene, and an empty screen to run around on...

>>3848413
It may not have been a fuckhuge budget, but it was about twice the average for hollywood films at the time it was released. Possibly even because of star wars's success, film budgets really started to explode in the years after it was released; its 11 million looks small compared to films that would come after it, but it still wasn't insignificant at the time.

>>3848524
6 7 T 4 9 5 8 X X-2 MQ

7 T X-2

>>3848413
>calls people underage
>clearly has no idea what he's talking about

>>3848524
7
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7
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>>3848321

It was the first one most people played.

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Pt 1:

This game is mediocre. When I was a kid, this game enthralled me because nothing looked like it. Did the gameplay match the presentation's ambition? No. It sucks. This game is unfulfilling, making FF7 a pilot episode or beta.

>1997
>Squaresoft wanted to make an ambitious RPG. They deserve credit.
>Nintendo conflict.
>They go with Sony.

Standard JRPG faire: talk to people, battle system with menus...the West understands these games, as evidenced by Mystic Quest's shitty reputation. They don't explain how some stats work. Hyper and Sadness are unexplained unless you're paying attention to the Status screen. This doesn't ruin the game, but it becomes vague.

If you think this is autistic, I'm going to remind you this is a JRPG.

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>>3848703
If you're going to say the story is the important thing, remove gameplay, and this should be Final Fantasy 7 - A Visual Novel.

- The materia system could go deeper.
- Some magic, limit breaks, and items have no purpose.
- Overleveling lets you ignore boss mechanics.
- Broken minigames.

The story’s theme is life and death, according to Squaresoft. They planned for the cast to die, but they changed their minds because Aeris had become a waifu. Aeris's death detracts from the theme. If nobody's life is at stake, your story is AERIS'S life and death. This is bullshit. They should’ve called this Final Fantasy 7 - Aeris Dies.

>The guy who wrote the Lifestream sequence wrote it to his taste and without consideration from any of the 100-150 people who worked on this game. Ho-lee shit.
>He said he regretted it. (citation: My Friends: Masato Kato, Our Millennial Fair)

Outside the context of 1997, this game is a failure. The mark of a GAME is if it holds up beyond its context. FF7 made Squaresoft money, so they succeeded.

But games aren't fun because they sell.

FF7 lets your imagination to fill in the story gaps. If you’re imaginative, you tend to defend FF7.

The territory is not the map.

Implied emotion gives you Ghost in the Shell, which requires 3 viewings. Squaresoft may have intended to use the implied emotion device, but because they bloated the development team, you get a story that makes no sense.

>>3848703
>Hyper and Sadness are unexplained unless you're paying attention to the Status screen.
It's pretty obvious what they do. That's like saying "Shell and protect are unexplained unless you're paying attention to the status screen".

>>3848703
>>3848705

>>3848546

it must be doing something right, cloud is number one in FF character popularity lists in japan, and world wide.

>>3848578
This. This poster gets it.

It's an extremely accessible yet thoughtful and subtle game. Deals with a lot of mature subjects and doesn't spoon feed the player often. It also pokes fun at itself sometimes, which is a relief.

I feel like this title resonates most with emotionally introspective people. I think it's a little too heartfelt and genuine for some people which turns them off.

>>3848324
Pretty accurate. I'd add that the game is off the walls crazy, both in terms of the plot and the silly shit that happens along the way. You really never know what the game's gonna throw at you next, and it has enough charisma to make that kind of stuff still interesting years later.

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Jesus, you guys talk about life and death as if it was the invention of the century in narrative themes. Like, this is probably the most prominent theme in literature since literally 3000+ years ago. And the same goes for not glorifying death btw

“But you, Achilles,/ There is not a man in the world more blest than you--/ There never has been, never will be one./ Time was, when you were alive, we Argives/ honored you as a god, and now down here, I see/ You Lord it over the dead in all your power./ So grieve no more at dying, great Achilles.’

I reassured the ghost, but he broke out protesting,/ ‘No winning words about death to me, shining Odysseus!/ By god, I’d rather slave on earth for another man--/ Some dirt-poor tenant farmer who scrapes to keep alive—than rule down here over all the breathless dead.” - Homer, the Odyssey

>>3848714
Tell me what they do.

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>>3848757
>it must be doing something right, cloud is number one in FF character popularity lists in japan, and world wide.

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>>3848825
It's a matter of ratios, yeah? Homer was sick of that shit in his day, and it's still a big trope in 1997 and warrants response.

Nice passage though.
Cloud: "Shut up."
FF7 did it better.

FF7 obviously didn't invent the human condition, but it doesn't have to in order to be a great expressive work. It does convey those themes in a manner that is effective and relevant today. Its wackiness adds an earnest/raw quality that's hard to find elsewhere, and the heavy stuff hits way harder as a result. And it leaves so many of those real-life question marks intact that you can feel the developers also struggling with those ideas on a personal level. (Even the Oddyssey castrates death by over-defining it through lore.) It's in sympathizing with the developers and fellow players through the lense of the story/presentation that FF7 derives its special value. It's not going to resonate in that way with everyone, but it has for a lot of people.

And it's catchy af

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>>3848551
Am I wrong or in the flash back scene to nibelheim was tifa presented as being older than cloud? I looked at the manual and it says cloud is older, or maybe they just meant he was smaller than the other kids the translation is ass.
>>3848321
I just played though it twice and honestly it does not hold up. The only thing that gets me is the little love triangle between cloud tifa and areis.
>dungeons are basically non existent
>puzzles are tedious and frustrating (looking at you clock in temple of the ancients)
>sure materia is fun
>most areas are laughably small
>the writing is just god awful

Still gives me the feels though

>>3849062
FF7's translation is total ass, it was probably "bigger".

>>3849062
Cloud was always left out as a kid, not hard to imagine he was a runt growing up.

>This game doesn't hold up
>I just played through it twice
Life is short, m8

>>3849086
There's no text indicating Cloud was younger. His teenage model is just shorter than Tifa's

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>>3848524
>mfw I've only beaten 8 and Tactics

>>3849030
My two favorite things:
>FFVII (favorite game)
>Brian Wilson (favorite musician)

Are you me? What a coincidence

>>3848325
>excitement about the jump to 3D
Except it was a huge hit in Europe too, where they never got the 2D Final Fantasy games. JRPGs were rarely released there before FF7.

>>3848551

>nobody played IX
>was on best selling list for a long time, even became a greatest hits
>all on a dying 6 year old game console

What the fuck are you smoking kid? I lined up for that game and the line was huge. I mean, it certainly alienated people that started with VII but to say that no one played it is untrue.

>>3849239
Not him but, I similarly hold FFVII and SMiLE in high regard. I think those are relatively common picks, but still, nice that there's sentimental folk around.

>>3848321
It's babby's first JRPG for a generation that experienced the jump in affordable 3D on consoles, in a time where JRPGs weren't really a thing in the western market.
Backed by a huge marketing campaign and a huge budget it easily became an icon of the genre, and like all icons it has been blown out of proportions and has an obnoxious fanbase.

Appeal isn't an objective factor, even when the game's extremely accessible like FFVII was, if you're a guy who dug deep into the genre you'd easily see that FFVII isn't anything special when it comes to game mechanics or narrative, if anything it's a retread of other JRPGs, point is most other JRPGs of the time didn't even come out of Japan and what little did come out didn't really get the attention FFVII had, marketing or not.

tl;dr: It came out at the right time to cash in and establish itself as a supposed classic.

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>>3849295

>as a supposed classic

It is a classic. Your negative opinion of that doesn't really change the fact. It's a very balanced game and earned its place in history my man its best you just accept it.

>>3849295
What JRPG had an unreliable narrator before FF7?

>>3849062
>dungeons are basically non existent
Literally what the fuck do you even mean by this?

>>3848703
>If you think this is autistic

No, I think this is something far beyond our comprehension of autism.

>>3849362
He probably only considers Temple of the Ancients as a dungeon

>>3849295
Any really large fan base will have vocal, obnoxious people in it. It's the Sanic effect.

>>3848838
For hyper it literally fucking says "cures sadness". Do you want an in-depth tutorial for every single aspect of the game? Also ever noticed how when your character is inflicted with sadness their limit gauge doesn't go up as quickly as before? For someone who claims to be "college educated" (assuming >>3848546 is you) you somehow fail to understand things even a 5 year old can.

>>3849383
Well that is just factually incorrect. Nobody gives a shit about some mouthbreather's arbitrary definition about what is a dungeon and what isn't.

>>3848838
One increases damage you take but increases the rate of limit gain, the other lowers damage but greatly reduces the rate of limit gain. Not only do they both recolor the limit gauge, but the damage and limit changes are very significant and very obvious.

>>3849239
>>3849264
Now we're talking. Yeah, the similarities between FF7 & Smile are striking to me despite them being completely different media, made three decades apart. They seem to have been made with very similar intentions.

>>3849246
They weren't excited about 3D games et all because they didn't have 2D Final Fantasies?

>>3849386
>>3849430
Guess again.

>>3849512
>Harping because they forgot fury modifies hit rate
wow, another thing you'll notice if you just pay attention

There's a manual for people like you, it's no big deal my dude

>>3849527
This isn't explained in the manual. What do?

>>3849430
>One increases damage you take but increases the rate of limit gain

No that's fury you're thinking of, hyper is just an item that cures sadness.

https://bigtallwords.com/2012/07/03/displacement-in-final-fantasy-vii/
http://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/index.php?a=ff07

Oh, scratch that, it is in the manual.

>>3849530
You are fucking autistic and a redditor and I ask you harshly and firmly to take your pedantry elsewhere.

>>3849529
I'm looking at the manual right now; under "FURY" it says "Doubles the damage incurred and causes the limit gauge to fill faster. Hit rate against enemies is decreased." and the cure is listed as "Item TRANQUILIZER", under "SADNESS" it says "Decreases the damage incurred and causes the Limit gauge to fill up slower." and the cure is listed as "Item HYPER"

I don't know why I even bothered typing that since it's obvious you're just pretending to be retarded.

>>3849542
Please kill yourself.

>>3849546
I made the following post: >>3849540, but you didn't see it.

I did this on purpose.

wow, another thing you'll notice if you just pay attention

Get my point now?

>>3849550
>wow, another thing you'll notice if you just pay attention

Coming from the legit retard who even when spoonfed information still can't understand it that's hilarious.

>>3849557
I'm quoting the other guy.

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>>3849550
Very nice. Grade A shitpost.

>>3849532
>https://bigtallwords.com/2012/07/03/displacement-in-final-fantasy-vii/

Very quality essay. Those are all connections and themes I had noticed myself, so I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees them.

It's funny - for a game that came out in 1997, it has an incredible commentary that is even more relevant today.

>>3848524

1
4
MQ
6

6

I've consumed several of the later ones via Let's Play. I couldn't bear to play them anymore. I'll probably try FFVII sometime though, just for historical educational reasons.

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>>3848578

While we're discussing this game with relatively sincerity, I wanted to acknowledge the other entries in the series from FF6-FF10 hitting on important themes as well, in part for comparison.

Some of my favorites (not really any surprises here):

FF6
>The inability for iron-fist tyranny to ever fully extinguish the spirit of freedom
>The purpose of life isn't some grand scheme for us to discover; We can only make our own purpose, day-to-day, embracing the present - and that's okay.

FF8
>Recognizing the arsenal of defense mechanisms we build up from past trauma, and accepting the vulnerabilities that come with living life to the fullest
>Learning to make a worthwhile life out of less than you had once expected

FF9
>The challenges of facing one's own mortality
>Learning that the superficial sources of one's sense of identity - like place of birth, class, etc. - can go out the window when you've found the right person/people to live for

FF10
>The spiritual component of selfless romantic love; its ability to cut through deep sorrows, to liberate the mind from the unjust burdens, and to awaken defiance
>The importance of questioning authority and long-established institutions, a task which consistently falls to the youth

There's some magic in all of them, though in my opinion they don't all hit with quite the same density or intensity that FF7 does with its message, nor are the sums of their subject matter quite as significant.

>>3848321


Never underestimate the power of good timing

>>3849753
>Recognizing the arsenal of defense mechanisms we build up from past trauma, and accepting the vulnerabilities that come with living life to the fullest

Please, Squall was a capeshit tier edgelord who loses all relatability when you find out he had the exact same backstory as everyone else.

>>3849062
>puzzles are tedious and frustrating (looking at you clock in temple of the ancients)

I'm sorry but are you literally mentally challenged? How in the fuck is that even remotely frustrating?

>>3849062
>the writing is just god awful

Explain. Yeah it's spotty in some areas and is made worse by the babelfish tier translation but by Final Fantasy standards it's actually pretty good, even if that isn't saying much.

>>3848514
>See? Even today, twenty years later the buzz continues to lead people to have their first RPG experience with it.
I played it when it came out in 1998.

>>3848321
Because it's edgy.

>>3848546

>The game doesn't hold up because I say so. It's legion of fans who enjoy it to this day are wrong!

Why am I always surprised by how arrogant people on this site can be?

>>3850027
How is the retranslation patch?

>>3850710
>How is the retranslation patch?
>retranslation

I'd hardly call it that. The team had literally zero knowledge of Japanese. It was like they ran every line through Google translate, then reworded it to their preference. Or they actually might have just reworded the English script. Either way, it's completely pointless.

>>3850715

The former I think. The author's also a stubborn little shit who won't budge on shit that he clearly got wrong no matter how many times people who know what they're talking about reach out to him.

The original translation has its infamous problems but it gets everything it needs to across. I would never suggest anyone new to the game use the "retranslation", it completely wrecks the very human quality the writing has going for it.

>>3850027
Translators note, this actually got corrected in the UK release. I used to think it was some kind of proto-meme back in the early days of the Internet to post fake engrish screenshots on FFVII before realising the US version had that many typos.

The "cought by surprise" is still in it though

>>3850765
>this actually got corrected in the UK release

Pretty sure it didn't.

>>3850032
If technology didn't make any difference to you in 1998 why was it the first JRPG you played? Buzz?

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I first played it in 2005 (i was 16) and it blew my mind, it had a simple battle system, a good story and great characters. Cloud's story was definitely the highlight.
I remember playing Ocarina at that time too but it was boring and repetitive af.

Last year I decided to play both of them again and FF7 holds up perfectly in every aspect except the overworld character models. And Ocarina is still a drag, i stopped playing it before even entering the goron mountain (last time, I got to the desert).

The game is COOL as all hell. Running around midgar fighting soldiers and robots with tifa and barret is so badass. The rest of the game feels like a traditional medieval final fantasy except on some more industrialized cities like Junon.

After replaying it, i finally understood why it was so popular with the casuals. It was flashy, had style and was simple to play it.

>>3850051
What you don't realize is namecalling is just as bad as what you perceive as arrogance. I used reason, trying to be as objective as possible. You just strawmanned and called me arrogant. That's not nice, so don't suppose you occupy any moral highground, bucko.

>>3848321
Simple. PS1 was a hit and a new generation of otakus was taking form.

>>3850769
A PC release fixed it.

>>3850771
I was mostly a computer gamer, and didn't happen to play any JRPGs on consoles. Also I got it as a Christmas present.

>>3850710
Garbage retranslation that makes cosmetic changes in places that weren't needed.

>>3850751
This.

The characterization and the individual voices of the cast are marginalized. The original translation has a few issues but the actual tone is conveyed quite well.

>>3848321
Materia.

>>3848321
It was a fun anime style romp that didn't take itself too seriously and it had a visual style to match

Later FF games got caught up in taking themselves too seriously especially where the visuals were concerned which tended to make the more anime style bits jarring.
Sometimes you just want to see a busty anime girl spin a giant monster over her head on her finger you know?

>>3854083
It has a humor in it but saying it's a fun romp that doesn't take itself seriously is going too far.

>>3850779
This guy gets it.

Whenever people pretend not to understand obvious hype like this I think of Kanye West in South Park not understanding the fish dicks joke

>>3850012
I love, love, love Final Fantasy 7 but the plot and writing is late 90s html chatroom roleplay tier. I replayed it just last year and parts of it made me visibly and outwardly express my second hand embarrassment.

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>>3857167
>FFVII is blatant leftist propaganda.
>against an evil corporation
>you start as an eco terrorist

You act like this some kind of revelation. It's on the box art. Pic related.

>why is (thing) popular
It's called marketing, numbskull.

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>>3858839

1. Millenials first RPG, first FF to really have a large fan base in the american market, outshined 6 in that regard which had a much smaller fanbase at its release
2. Timing, market was ready for a big release on the ps1
3. Had top tiier graphics for its time, basically was one of the first completely 3d rpgs under a big studio

I don't think it's objectively bad, it was my first FF, but I am able to know why it is so widely loved.

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>>3848321

>because of the leap in graphics FFVII was western society's crossover to normalizing JRPGs.

I thought this would be a good thing. Boy, was I wrong.

plot is pretty shit, basically everyone stops giving a shit about being an eco terrorist once sephiroth is dead, and shinra is still sucking shit out of the planet, even after meteor and all that

>guise, stop shinra, super evil corp
>oh shit experiments on the lose
>must stop sephiroth
>aeris dies
>oh shit we really gotta kill him, he's a baddie summoning a meteor
>meanwhile your original enemy is up to sucking the life force out of the planet
>defeat sephiroth
>oh shinra's tech is ruined (temporary), whatever, we won

the first disc to me felt like a fucking mess, while it's obvious that sephiroth is a larger threat due to meteor, they seem to have no care for the fact that shinra is gonna continue doing what it's doing

I mean people love/hate FFVIII but it had a more consistent (albeit simpler) story.

>>3848524

4
6
7
T
8
5
X
3

8
6
T

>>3848524

7
8
T
9
4
5
6
X
XI
XII
-

T
8
XII (if we pretend basch is mc)

>>3857167

propaganda is only propaganda when it takes itself very seriously, which VII clearly does not given the humour in it.

>>3848524
7
9
8
6
X
X-2
T

7
X
T

>>3858859
They never stopped giving a shit, it's just that Sephiroth became the greater of two evils once he appeared. You're still battling Shinra's forces well into the second disc.

>I mean people love/hate FFVIII but it had a more consistent (albeit simpler) story.

For the first disc, after which it completely went off the rails.

>storry that was originally fairly simple and revolved around kids going to school to take part in regional conflicts for money devolved into generic "save teh world" bullshit
>furries
>flying army bases everywhere
>an entire race of jabba the hutts
>OMG WE WERE ALL FROM THE SAME ORPHANAGE
>it turns out the evil sorceress was actually possessed by yet another evil sorceress who is never seen or mentioned until way late in the game
>moon monsters

Not to say VII's plot is that well-written or coherent but VIII's is no better.

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>>3857185
>that marketing

I feel bad for Americans if that's the kind of shit they have to put up with.

The game is great until they leave Midgar. Then it sucks.

>>3858875

Well, more went like this

>schools used to train soldiers to fight sorceresses
>sorceresses are manipulating the world, and one of the schools
>find out there's one that is fucking with spacetime
>all the weird orphanage shit, yeah some furries who are also getting fucked by the sorcs
>awkward love story
>kill future sorceress because she's fucking spacetime

>>3858883
Eh, close enough.

>>3857167
>>3857185
Hurr durr, everything and everyone that doesn't praise and suck the old hairy balls of our corporate overlords is part of the ebil communist plot to rape our churches and burn our kids, durr.

Leftists, socialists, communists, [insert more meme words I don't know the meaning of here].

>>3848524
7
9
6
ffta
4
and almost 5

>>3848524
>POST THE FINAL FANTASY GAMES YOU BEAT IN ORDER OF COMPLETION
7
8
9
10
13
12

>POST YOUR FAVORITE
7
10
9

It was universally loved right up until Nomura went crazy and did Final Fantasy X - World of Belts and Zippers

>>3848524
XIII
I
III
VII
IV
VI
X
X2
XIII-2
XII
WotL
VIII
IX
II
Type-0
LR:XIII

Top Three
- XII IZJS
- WotL
- XIII-2

I'm 25 and just got into the series really late.

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>>3857185
>comic mischief

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>>3858974
>XIII-2

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>>3858975
It was all a prank

>>3858979
Its a damn good game, anon.

>>3858983
It's not. And I beat XIII; XIII-2 is an even bigger slogventure with the series' worst characters.

>>3859013
>Good combat bolstered by a fun creature raising/customization system and consistently solid bossfights
>Assloads of content with both a lengthy story and big post-game
>Shitloads of replayability thanks to the paradox endings and other such features
>Story is an entertaining timetravel adventure that probably the best take on one in a JRPG since Chrono Trigger, with the sole exception of Radiant Historia
>Likeable cast
>Great music, visuals, and general design

It's really good my dude.

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>>3858981
What was the point of the mouths if they don't even move? It just somehow makes the character models even goofier.

>>3859019
I liked the battle system in XIII, it was the only reason I played through it. But the cast was hardly likable. Music and battles = good, everything else = slog

>>3858881
>Intense arcade action sequences
>snowboarding cloud

>>3848524
T

T

>>3858881
This looks like shit.

Spoil Aerith death, talk about a hundreds of characters, but the screenshot shows 6 that look the same, nobody even used summons in FF7 unless it was KOTR, the arcade was the only worthwhile blip.

>>3857167
top-tier bait, nice

>>3848321
Lucky timing. That's it. The game is actually garbage.

>>3849302
How about the game right before ff7? She IS cloud.

>>3849753
The first one is incorrect. See China. If you do it right iron fisted tyranny works and people give up their freedoms.

Hell even in the Land of the Free they're giving up their privacy and freedoms for supposed safety.

Wrong! Sad!

>>3859552
But that's what it is. ROFL.

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>>3858912
There's a difference between having a position on an issue and propaganda.

Shrinra drops a plate housing hundreds to millions on top of a sector that housed hundreds to millions. To kill a group of 5 people. Because a reactor was put out of commission. Temporarily.

>>3859834
>>3859834
It's an overblown version of the runaway train dilemma.

Lets put it in perspective of our times.


Imagine you have a number of self proclaimed terrorists break into a nuclear plant. If you don't kill them now they'll steal material and make a weapon. You have to kill the entire town to get the terrorists, do you?

Is the handful of millions lost worth the hundreds of millions you saved?

>>3859865
>You have to kill the entire town to get the terrorists, do you?

No. Destroying a town to catch a thief is mustache twirling saturday morning bullshit.

>Is the handful of millions lost worth the hundreds of millions you saved?

No, because you lost a significant fraction of your population for an unknown number of population. You have no way to know who the terrorists were working for. Where their organization is headquartered (iirc the storyline suggests they had intel suggesting it was in sector 7). Who is in charge of it. What they wanted or how they were going to use it. Hell, they don't even know in game whether or not they got any of the heroes until later in the plot.

Punching the neighbor kid's lights out for trashing your mailbox may make you feel better now, but only an idiot would think it's a solution without consequences.

The villians are written comically evil so that you as the hero feel justified in wrecking their shit. I enjoyed the game and accept it anyway. It is a game after all.

Some things are positions and some things are propaganda. Being aware of what something is doesn't change the nature of itself. Being an adult is recognizing the difference and determining if there's value to the hyperbole.

>>3859926
I gave you the consequences of the scenario don't move the posts. A weapon can be made to kill hundreds of millions with the materials stolen. Answer the only specific part of the question that matters. You can sacrifice millions to save hundreds of millions, do you?

>>3859969
No because I wouldn't have the knowledge that they had the skill. Not that it matters if I did know.

You look at how we handled Bin Laden. We have people who are trained for espionage take out the person(s) after reliable recon. We don't carpet bomb the city we merely think he's in.

So let's say I do what Shinra does. Let's even say I manage to kill Barett's little rebel group. Cloud, everyone, dead. How long do you think it would be before mass revolt? Before other groups formed in honor of the people of sector 7? Other groups seeing the weakness in Shinra security?

I didn't solve anything. I didn't stop anything. My actions will have consequences creating martyrs out of terrorists. All for a potential weapon when I have an army and a city that's basically a giant gauss cannon (so I have resources at my disposal).

The proper way would have been to use the security tapes (remember our heroes looked into several cameras during their fight out) and painted them as evil terrorists. I would have worked my propaganda overtime. I would have had substantial reward for leading to their capture (like enough money to move out of the slums reward). I would have jacked up the power rates (Shinra is the electric company) saying I had to compensate for both safety and reconstruction.

The proper evil course is to use this as an opportunity to be more evil. Not needlessly waste lives, money (those plates couldn't have been cheap to construct or raise), public perception, and for what? I need ESP granted by to know they had the capability to make a weapon out of it. And the ESP has to be wrong as they didn't kill hundreds of millions.

I'm not moving the goalposts, your argument is piss poor.

>>3860035
I gave you the scenario that specifically states that knowledge. What a thick dumb motherfucker.

>>3860035
And your slow inaction cost hundreds of millions of lives.

You lost.

End of simulation.
Ps. You're retarded.

>>3860050
And I told you that that knowledge wouldn't change my actions because I'm not a cartoon villain who has no concept of consequences.

Unless you're trying to make the point that if I was exactly the idiotic evil villains in the game then I'd be the evil idiotic villains in the game. Which is tautological as hell and doesn't change the fact that the game painted the evil corporation as a farce.

>>3860057
>every life lost strengthens my public perception and makes the good guys look more evil
>I'm the one who lost

I don't think you understand how evil works.

>>3859865
yes, easier decision than pulling the train lever to save the 5

>>3848321
>What did this one did for people that no other entry in the series did?

Get popular with normies. I guess you can liken it to Jaws and, as another anon said, Star Wars. It was the first blockbluster of JRPGs. At least in the west.

>>3860075
Yes you lost, there was only one thing to decide how many lives you would sacrifice. You chose hundreds of millions. I didn't write anything about public perception or good or evil. You did.

Reading comprehension is not hard. You don't get to receive a question, pull a kellyanne and answer your own question. We don't live in an alternative universe.

You lost.

>>3860078
Good job! You get a cookie.

>>3860110
I don't know where to begin.

Your proposed situation isn't like what happened in the game at all. You are trying to cram a dilemma that doesn't apply.

But it doesn't work here for all the reasons I outlined. You keep forgetting one thing, the corporation is supposed to be evil. Your scenario demands foreknowledge that nobody would outright have and when I reject your pre-disposed conclusion (as you've missed the point of the actual dilemma, nevermind the machinations of the game) you get upset and start name calling.

I can only guess you started with the foregone conclusion that Shinra had to drop the plate and worked your way backwards to your 'clever ruse'. When I shot holes in that you got upset, clearly.

The point of the Trolley Problem is that there is no correct answer. That's why it's an ethical problem. So if I'm wrong, then by default it can't be the Trolley Problem as you've missed the point there.

And even your aborted deformation of a trolley problem (that's unrelated to almost all the events except people dying), I was to take the point of the evil corporation. Evil. I can't stress that enough.

In my choices I'd still have a city, I'd have a populace that at least would have trust if not renewed enthusiasm, I'd have everything I wanted and a distraction for the populace. A boogeyman to keep them busy while I'm being evil elsewhere. And then you double it up by telling me I get to know the destruction they're capable of in advance so I can prepare for it. I can have all my propaganda offices ready. Recruitment offices, etc.

You handed me a war on a platter and you think someone evil would reject it?

You do not understand evil. Evil doesn't mean stupid and nice is different than good.

>>3860158
I never said the scenario was a direct real world equivalent. See why reading comprehension matters?

>one stupid fucking nigger trolling(?)
>one autist writing walls about unrelated shit
Kill Selves

>>3860186
>Your proposed situation isn't like what happened in the game at all.

>second sentence of what you're replying to:
>Your proposed situation isn't like what happened in the game at all.

Boy howdy, reading comprehension indeed.

>>3859865
I would blow the town to save those lives sure mang

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>>3848524
>mfw IV is my first and favorite. I'm everything VII haters crap on, and irrelevantly old, too.

>>3859926
>No. Destroying a town to catch a thief is mustache twirling saturday morning bullshit.

Breaking news! Final Fantasy plots are slightly above Saturday morning cartoons but not by a long shot.

>>3848321
honestly, i don't know. i couldn't bring myself to play past the first disc.

>>3849264
>>3849484
I swear you Brian Wilson fans are more obsessed with yourselves talking highly about the concepts and drama surrounding Pet Sounds and Smile than the actual fucking music of the Beach Boys themselves.

It may make you seem higher up on some imaginary ladder but you may as well just shitpost about some vidya youtubers personal lives.

It wasn't uniqueness and novelty that pushed FF7 into the sweet spot. It was executing those rehashed themes well.

For instance, Jrpg fans would have already played games where playable characters become unplayable for whatever reason. For instance, some playable characters die- PS2, Vay- come to mind. Some playable characters leave. And some playable characters join you with your understanding that it's only going to be for one fight or one short mission and then that character will part ways with you.

Lunar gives you the feel of losing playable characters that you care about- that Alex cares about- because they decide they can't go on. We also get characters that join your party for a short time- Tempest, Fresca and Laike. But the important emotional moments are when characters you care about are no longer with you.

Luna leaves because she's frightened, hesitant and afraid of holding Alex back (in the original she leaves before Meribia) and Ramus leaves because he recognizes he isn't cut out for fighting monsters and decides to set up shop in Meribia. These aren't just teammates for a single mission or single battle- like say Gen. Leo, or Shadow (if you don't know how to save him and get him in the WoR).

The emotions you feel for Luna and Ramus are tiny compared to what you feel when you lose Aerith. But it's not just because Aerith dies that we feel those strong emotions, because we (gamers my age) already had playable characters die on us- Nei, Pottle, Gen. Leo and Shadow. But those deaths weren't emotionally powerful the way Aerith's death was.

In my view, most of the beauty in FF7 is solid execution- not novelty. Most of the elements- if not all- found in FF7 are found in other games. Other good games succeed in executing some of those elements- like a compelling story, interesting characters, fluid gameplay, and beautiful aesthetics. And when you bring all of those well executed pieces together- you get a masterpiece like FF7.

>>3848321
It has a great overworld map and a lot of sidequests/ exploration. That's probably the biggest appealing factor to me.

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>>3861336
>all this projecting
>all this belligerent jumping to conclusions
>some people are really passionate about something so they must be posers

Dude, I actually don't talk to anyone about this music. And I actually appreciate the songs and listen to everything else by Brian too. Fuck, even Adult/Child and The Paley Sessions, and the rare album of American Spring he produced and the even rarer tracks of that album that never ever even had an official release. But that doesn't mean those are the best either, sometimes his best stuff is the simple stuff like In My Room.

And the Beach Boys are the only real artists I listen to anyway. I might listen to other albums once or twice, but I mainly just listen to Beach Boys songs on repeat.

OP, I don't know if you were alive and cogent at the time of 3D games, but FFVII and Ocarina of Time were both huge deals because they were the first 3D game of their respective franchises, which were already fairly popular. But the novelty and awe of 3D graphics at the time catapulted them to a new level of fame. It also helps that they are both very solid games that successfully translated what made their franchises good to 3D.

Basically all the kids who were shocked and impressed by these games at the time have grown up and feel nostalgic about them, thus the need to endlessly rehash them and produce related content.

In video games there has never been a bigger paradigm shift for graphics than the 2D-3D transition, so the games that were emblematic of that point in time are very fondly remembered.

>tfw owned the games for over a decade, but finally sat down to play it last night
Maybe it was because I was fucked up, but I was absolutely amazed by the background art for the towns and dungeons. Everything looks so vast and the combat is really solid once you get used to it. X is my favorite, but I can finally see why VII has been held in high regards for so long.

>>3859545
>Spoil Aerith death

The fucking tv spot has that scene in it.

>>3848524
7 9 12 13 13-2 15

6
1
12

>>3848524
4, 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, Tactics, 10

7
Tactics
6

>>3848524
I
II
III
IV
V
VI
VII
XV
XII

XII

>>3861752
Hey man I have my own passions in music too. But I've seen way too much of Pet Sounds (maybe with the occasional Surf's Up) and Wilson/Love shitposting on /mu/ that I lean more on the slight idea I have on where it may come from (on 4chan, that is), not without some introspection, that I do fail to realize that it could have been passed down from their parents or peers of their parents or just fucking real life since they are just as big as the Beatles. But the FF7 and Brian Wilson being "common picks" may have triggered some sort of hipster contrarian autism of mine (and I'm more of a fucking Ventures poser if I might add, if I ever get the damn time to devour their entire catalog).

>>3848321
VII is great, but that has nothing to do with why it got all the spin-offs. That was Square's new CEO trying to cash in as much as possible.

http://www.avclub.com/article/20-years-after-its-release-final-fantasy-viis-trum-248762

OH MY GOD GUYS

SHINRA IS LITERALLY TRUMP

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honestly the haters are the ones still talking about it most

ya'll always pop up practically weekly whining about how FF7 and Metal Gear Solid and Ocarina all got places in history like it personally offends you that games you don't like made it in the history books

do you guys not have better ways to spend your time? This was 20 years ago and nothing you do can change the fact that 20 years ago FF7 was IT.

>>3848524
>ORDER OF COMPLETION
9
7
13
8
10
6

>FAVORITE
9
10

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>>3862894
>ACTUALLY PLAYED XV
>ACTUALLY LIKED XII

wow, I don't think you belong here.

>mfw he hasn't played 8, 9, or 10

>>3848321
>an epic plot that's both grand in scale well at the same time is still nuanced and emotional
>unique cast of oddball characters that are well realized and have well paced subplots that gives the player a break from the main plot
>over the top flashy cutscenes
>Weird and memorable monsters
>Persistently throws new content at the player and keeps them in unique situation

Also keep in mind that when FFVII was released
the other major 3D console games at the were stuff like Mario 64 and resident evil.

>>3848321
It's primary audience were 14 year old animefags still going through their naruto and dragonball phase.

>>3863378
Yeah cause everybody in 1997 was obsessed with Naruto.

>>3862930
It's okay dude.

I jump to those conclusions about these things too.

My second favorite game is YU-NO, which is a lot more of a hidden gem than FFVII. So I just like the stuff I like I guess despite the context.

I agree though that a lot of the Beach Boys /mu/ thing is just phony people cashing in on "muh genius autistic underdog" thing. They've probably only listened to Pet Sounds/Sunflower/Surf's Up and maybe some surf hits compilation.

Ventures is fun

>>3848321

This is the game that made a generation of boys into men. When the baddies killed Aeris after you went to the carnival with a her, a small piece of us all died.

Also you put in 15 trillion gorilla hours to get the goddamn Knights of the Realm materia.

That game is burned into all our minds who grew up with it.

This game was also the first huge next generation game along with Metal Gear Solid (holy shit that game) for the Playstation. The Playstation back then was like next level shit young fags just can't understand. Playing the FF7 epic on Playstation back in the day was the pinnacle of growing up in the late 1990s

>>3848546
>Ghost in the Shell
>requires 3 viewings to undesrtand
GitS is a masterpiece, but it does not require 3 viewings to understand

>>3864350
No, but it takes 3 viewing to get.

>>3860035
What your forgetting is the plate fell on the slums. Not the taxpayers.
It was pointed out that the people were seen as homeless squatters underneath the plates. And weren't welcomed by anyone.

Nothing of value was lost when shinra dropped the plate except a couple dindus and tyrone.

They handled it appropriate.

>>3849062
Tifa probably hit her growth spurt before cloud, who does seem like something of a late bloomer. Tifa did seem to grow up with a lot of... development.

>>3849062
>>puzzles are tedious and frustrating (looking at you clock in temple of the ancients)

the clock in the temple of the ancients isn't even really a puzzle. you just move the hands around so you can go through different doors.