optical media

>>3807535
Maybe don't scratch them

>>3807536
CDs get scratched if dust lands on it

>>3807535
>implying Blu-Rays can be scratched
>actually leaving loose CDs and DVDs laying around instead of just putting them back in the ducking case
>buying disc-only games
Stupid people deserve what they get.

>>3807538
>I can't be assed to provide even the most basic care for my discs
>I'm too stupid to fix them when they get scratched

>>3807535
People who didn't want to charge >$9000 for a cartridge that held that much.
People who didn't mind if slobs had to buy a game again if they fucked it up.

>>3807580
this.

I still have longbox PS1 games that work fine.

>>3807536
>gramps

that makes you what? 35 around here :)

>>3807589
I just turned 40. I didn't make up the name.

>>3807590

Oh well happy birthday

>>3807638
Well it was last month. It was when I resolved to go ahead, trip up and try to help make /vr/ more like it was to begin with

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>lend your game to some guy
>he gives it back scratched
>now some cinematic sequences will not work anymore

>>3807535
Scratches are the least of my worries because I'm not a clumsy fool. The real issue is this...

>take immaculate care of all my shit
>disc still rots

Even some of my older blu rays have fallen victim. This should never happen, it's one thing to lose your physical media to your own stupidity but it's complete bullshit that a disc can rot. Because of this I only buy carts now, never once had this problem with dvds, blu ray I still bite the bullet but it doesn't seem like the 2008+ discs have this problem.

>>3807663
Have 'em resurfaced. Rental places managed to pull it off profitably for basically the entire lifespan of DVD media so unless your friends are terrible people you should manage to loan out successfully sometimes. MY friends on the other hand were the types to just never return shit and I'm pretty forgetful. Now I only loan out my doubles.

>>3807668
I was going to call shenanigans but on my second read of your post, I can confirm that I got a blu ray game that I am 80% certain had a manufacturing defect. I've been collecting PS3 games, too so it worries me slightly how many others I haven't played yet might be sitting there unreadable. I have a few valuable Sega CDs too and I know they do sometimes spontaneously develop read errors. Never on a PS1/2 game though and I have a lot of those. PS1s wear out but the games last forever.

>>3807693
>I was going to call shenanigans

I would have just posted evidence. In fact I just noticed a new one yesterday that pissed me off, my 5 year old daughter wanted to watch the sea creatures on planet earth so I opened it up and disc 1 had rot and the other 3 were fine. Still plays.... but who knows for how long. Strange thing to happen considering I have cd's from 20+ years ago that are perfect and all my dvds at my second home are fine.

>>3807715
Well blu ray IS a new technology since the data is encoded in 3D. DVDs, GD-Roms, etc are all just basically denser and differently formatted CDs so the process had been refined from the beginning. That also follows with how a lot of laserdiscs get it too although they just read right through it since they're dumb analog devices.

Sacrifices of being an early adopter I guess. My disc was from a 2014 game though

>>3807680
Except they didn't, the number of skipping DVDs we were getting from Blockbuster and the local library were what caused my family to sign up for Netflix in 2004.

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>>3807590
>>3807658
Belated Happy Birthday, Gramps. I turn 41 next week, no lie.

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>>3808132
I don't believe it!

>>3808112
And the DVDs they sent you in the fucking mail were in better condition? I guess it was possible for them to have significant portions of their library out of circulation at any given time since you didn't necessarily get the specific movie you wanted, rather a movie from your list when and if it was available. Dark ages.

In 2004 I was downloading movies with bittorrent. It was slow but still faster than Netflix.

My family has CDs they bought in 1988 which still look pristine. If you can't take care of your shit, that's a problem on your end.

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>>3808190
Believe it, man. There are a few of us "old fogies" that lurk /vr/, as you're well aware I'm sure.

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>>3808249
Yeah there was a guy that gave me some pretty big insights into what the arcade, tabletop gaming and 8 bit computer scenes were really like in the early 80s. That's something that I really enjoy hearing about as I thought those kind of teens were so cool when I was a little kid.

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Too bad companies didn't standardize releasing all optical games in caddies. Discs would have been safe from idiots and kids.

>>3808341
No way would Sony have gone for that with their market strategy

>>3808341
But then you drive up production costs, and you lose sales from all the idiots who have to re-buy games because the disc is so scratched that nothing can read them anymore.

Why do you think all the Playstations had self-destroying cd drives? It was cheap to produce and they could sell multiple units in the same households.

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>>3808347
>>3808356
So close...

I've also got CDs from the mid 80s still laying around the house and some of them even have that factory new smell in them still. I've also read that in the beginning CDs were manufactured with some higher quality material like gold in the disc until sometime in the early to mid 90s.

>>3808356
>self-destroying cd drives

>>3808190
Habeeb it!

>>3808190 I remember waiting forever for the Initial D discs and getting all 3 fuckin rekt

34 yrs.

>>3807680
resurfacing is a total loss thing meant to make the disk read once so you can copy it

that's at least what those disc doctor grinders do, idk if there's some machine that can do it without damaging the disc

>>3807658
>trip up
Aside from being pure faggotry the main problem is that lets everyone associate every every stupid post you ever posted with you.

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>>3808319
Oh jeez, Millers Outpost! That's where I got all my jeans! They had awful commercials on TV, but inside the store was this awesome diorama of an old west town with a steam locomotive heading towards it.

Well, I don't think I started going to arcades (outside of our local Showbiz Pizza trips on my birthdays) until about '85 or '86. If you need someone to reminisce about the arcade scene from the mid '80s on, I'm here.

We had AWESOME arcades where I was from.

>>3808485
Rental places and basically any other place that still deals in discs have big ass "professional" resurfacing machines that can really grind down flush and polish as deep as necessary to get the scratches out. Can't work forever obviously but it'll recover ones that have gone through one abusive relationship.

>>3808531
Nah, I take the trip off when I want to post something REALLY stupid. At my age now I have pretty good self-editing skills believe it or not.

>>3808743
I got my teen years trademark jean jacket from a place called Jean Scene in the mall. It was the kind of place Hank Hill would have worked before he started working for Buck Strickland.

>>3807535
They generally work well enough. The problem is the OG Xbox's shit quality disc-reading thing. By the time I retired mine about half of my games couldn't run, at least not without trying for 10 minutes straight.

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>>3807535
>20+ yo cart
>Still saves, never replaced the battery

And still fucking works, CDs were a step back in technology, but I hate the drives it self I've already replaced my Saturn and PlayStation lens twice, it's so hard to maintain CD based consoles, Nintendo was right with the N64, if every company forced their hand in mass producing larger sized carts we could have cheaper and largers memory stick media , hell even SSDs could exist a lot earlier. Hard drives and opticaledia are so mechanical in their designs and have so many flaws, but muh cinematic experience, games need to be movies and Muh CGs . Fuck that!

>>3808816
Why would you decide that trips of all things would improve the board?
And half of your posts are either blod posts or pretentious holier-than-thou drek.

>>3807580
>People who didn't want to charge >$9000 for a cartridge that held that much.People who didn't mind if slobs had to buy a game again if they fucked it up

This. Broadband and muh STEAM DRM wasn't a thing yet. Is OP like 12?

>>3807663
Your friends are shit.

>>3807727
>>3807715
>Le rot.
It's called oxidisation. Carts have it worse.

>>3809558
>SSDs could exist a lot earlier.
Their Lifespan is even shorter than HDDs if you use them everyday.
>Muh nintendoboys
Carts oxidise too, and batteries leak, destroying everything inside.

>>3809786
I'm just sharing my experiences that relate to the topic of the board. I spend a lot of time here so I thought it might be nice to be a constant. I actually like to think I try to shoot down the Anonymous holier-than-thou drek with real information since obnoxious parroting of mostly-wrong information is one of the cancers on this board. If it seems to be having a negative effect on the board I'll definitely go Anon again though.

>>3809803
I didn't say anything about rot and I try not to because the term gets overused. You're right that it's oxidisation but the data layer of optical discs should never come in contact with oxygen unless they're rather severely damaged by moisture which I think is far and away the most common actual cause OR through manufacturing defects. Manufacturing defects cause inevitable damage to the data no matter how well they're stored and is what people really worry about but I've only ever really seen that happen on laserdiscs, Sega CD/Saturn games and blu rays.

>>3808356
>Be this poster
>Buy an old early model PS1 off ebay
>Play games for a bit
>After a while games stop working
>Look at disk
>Minute scratch
>It's totally not the laser that fucked up, them Sony folk put in auto CD scratchers in them devil's machine!!!
>IT'S A CONSPIRACY.jpg

The lasers on early model ps1's and the ps2 fat would damage easily because they were next to the power supply that got hot and fucked it up.
Where I live there's a guy who fixes those, either "recalibrates" them for a few bucks so it'll last a few more months or change them to more sturdy ones that won't break. Either way model 7500 and up they changed the laser to be father away from the PSU so it didn't heat up.

Tl;dr poster most likely bought an early model ps1's off eBay, the laser stopped working and then he blames it on "built in CD scratchers"

>>3809880
Seems like you're both talking about the same thing.

>>3809558
>Be poster
>Buy a model 1000 ps1 and a shitty half assed attempt to stay relevant console
>Laser fucks up on the ps1 because manufacturing defect fixed 1 model later
>laser fucks up on shitty half assed console made with cheap parts because the company was losing money fast
>imb4 Omg they shouldn't come with a defect first run
>Yfw the NES needed contacts replaced after a bit because it's design made its contacts bend by simply putting in a game the correct way
>Buy a SNES cart off eBay with a replaced battery
>Doesn't realize that carts oxidize so easily especially if you blow on them
>Game can't be read, time to get out the qtip and cleaning solution because if I blow into the cart the contacts end up rotting off

WHY ARE CD'S SO SHIT LIKE UGH!!!

>>3809880
>The lasers on early model ps1's and the ps2 fat would damage easily because they were next to the power supply that got hot and fucked it up.

The way they got "fucked up" was that the heat made the plastic drive caddy lose its shape, and the laser was sitting too low to be able to focus.

If they would've used metal instead of plastic, this wouldn't have been a problem - but then it would've cost more.

And the PS2 also had a self destruct anti-tamper system. When modchips were detected, the system sent more amps to the laser, greatly reducing its age.
Early PS2s also couldn't read double layer discs fine, another reason to "upgrade".

>>3809905
Why would you need to read dual layer discs in a ps2?

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>>3809809
I wonder me self
how many carts and slots are still working?
how many discs and drives are still working?

>>3810004
Besides my ps1 games I take awful care of my other disks, like I just have all my PC games and other shit in a few of those spindles in a dark and possibly humid garage and they don't ever get like this. Either way I read that CD rot takes literally hundreds of years to even start if you take good care of them while cart rot happens wether you keep it safe or not, in around a few decades

>>3810235
You got cart rot and cd rot backwards.

The masked ROMs are rated for 80 years continuous use, while pressed optical media has a lifespan of more like 75-120 years.

>>3807535
People who don't leave their dicks laying out on the table all day instead of putting them back in the case where they belong.

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>>3807658
>/vr/ was full of ignorant tripfags to begin with

>>3810378
>People who don't leave their dicks laying out on the table all day instead of putting them back in the case where they belong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQBPgJQhQHc

>>3810381
In the beginning, the average poster seemed to feel a greater responsibility to make decent posts. By tripfagging I'm taking responsibility for my posts as you or some other /v/ type already tried to bait me with.

>>3810361
Who conducted these studies? I mean I can imagine rating a mask rom for decomposition but is the decomposition of the plastic that seals the data surface on CDs really as short as 75-120 years? Seems like it could be polished up pretty good even if the surface started to get cloudy.

>>3810425
Atleast you aren't like that fag that posts an image with some paper and stuff

Furniture Polish and Teeshirt. Use the soft inside of the shirt to wipe off the foam, from the center to the outer edge, in straight lines.
I've made completely fucked discs work in this way.

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>>3810453
I took my label-maker made name off my old ID for such purposes

>>3810425
https://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub121/sec4.html

And for Masked ROM, it's not decomposition from age, it's electromigration from use, hence 80 years contiunous use, not 80 years of age.

>>3810425
>studies
Specs are in the datasheets sport

>>3810640
This.
Manufactures rate their data retention.

>>3810640
>>3810642
I'm sure those are conservative estimates.

>>3810673
Both studies and manufactures quote 200 years as the absolute maximum.
On average, most disks are gonna last more like 75-100 years.

>>3810673
I'm sure he said rated and you came back with "studies" because you've never read a datasheet. And yes, the minimum specs in the datasheet are very conservative. It's likely most parts will substantially exceed them. Even a kid who's only ever built an LED flashing circuit probably figured that out.
Damn. For someone who calls himself gramps you sure are short on knowledge. Not to mention the wisdom to just shut the fuck up when you don't know what you're talking about.

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>>3810985
He said "lifespan" for cd-roms. I'm asking how these lifespans are established. The CLIR article has no citations and "Little information is available for CD-ROM and DVD-ROM discs (including audio and video), resulting in an increased level of uncertainty for their life expectancy" then goes on state their expected life span is considerably less than CD-R discs. This seems very counter-intuitive to me and I'm genuinely curious as to these "accelerated aging methodologies", which organizations have employed them and what their results are. Can you provide a link to a datasheet that includes data retention? What facility pressed Sega CDs? Is their estimated data retention different than CDs pressed in Sony's facilities?

To clarify, this isn't some kind of attack or implication that I know the answers to these questions. I don't. I also don't do electrical engineering and I wasn't implying that I did when I said that I expect PCBs and ICs would be more vulnerable to oxidisation than pressed CDs. I'm actually surprised that there are IC style datasheets for pressed CDs and again I am genuinely curious to read one.

Or is this one of those cases where since I'm too dumb to find it I obviously wouldn't understand it so you will refuse to "spoonfeed" me something I should easily be able to google. If so, just indulge an ignorant old man.

>>3811028
readingcomprehension champ

There's quite a bit of uncertainly because there were so many ways of manufacturing discs.

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2014/08/18/340716269/how-long-do-cds-last-it-depends-but-definitely-not-forever