Post games that will never be translated ever, and you wish you

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Even though it can be enjoyed without knowledge of Japanese as a simple flight sim, as a Macross fan it would be really nice to see what kind of story it has going for it since it is apparently canon to the saga.

And of course, we haven't had a good Macross show since 2004, so I certainly don't have any faith for that new one coming 2018....

>Really wish I had it in me to learn Japanese.
You think there's some special gift you need to learn it?
All sorts of people have learned it and so can you.

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/thread

Frontier did a pretty good job both celebrating the classic elements of Macross while introducing flashier visuals and a more structured plot. Also the music is damn good.

I'll agree that delta is total shit though. It just rehashes Frontier but literally everything is worse.

>>3807008
There's someone working on that game right now, supposedly.

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,23367.0.html

>>3807008
>Really wish I had it in me to learn Japanese.
If you study every day, in 1 year you will be able to play any game you want (other than VNs). Just sit down and do it, simple as that.

>>3807092
I wouldn't have any idea where to start. I'm like a sheep when it comes to learning. I have to be lead or I'll be all over the place.
>>3807164
This is great news.

>>3807176
There's Japanese learning threads on /int/ and /jp/.
They offer useful resources and may be helpful.
>>>/jp/16579621
>>>/int/71313165
>>>/int/71259706

The first step is always going to be learning Katakana and Hiragana. There's a variety of approaches to that but in general it shouldn't take more than a few days.

>>3807185
Thanks. Guess it won't hurt to try.

>>3807313
Was it here that some guy was bragging about his 3rd grade reading level and that he would soon move to japan? It was hilarious how he kept saying to others "strong words from someone with nothing".

I have been tempted but I know I won't stick to it.

>>3809068
That was here.

Also here is a strong dislike of anything not in the original source language. Hence why there's basically a vocal minority of people always shooting LEARN JAPANESE in any thread about translations of any kind.

Why do people learning Japanese make some people from /vr/ so angry?

>>3807175
I was capable of playing adventures in less than a year.
The toughest genre are quizzes due to time limits and obscure knowledge.

>>3809657
Nothing wrong with learning Japanese. Never has been. The problem is people going to every single thread related to translations and saying learning Japanese is the absolutely only option. Chances are, if you're in a translation related thread, the people there either tried to learn Japanese and couldn't, or have other reasons that they can't at the moment.

>>3809657
Because they're envious lazy-fucks

>>3807008
Probably Illusion City on MSX is the only one i would like to play translated.

>>3809690
>the people there either tried to learn Japanese and couldn't
They never seriously tried. You have to be mentally handicapped to be unable to learn a language.
If you are interested in Japanese retro games then learning Japanese is the only true option.

Threads and posts demanding that shit gets translated are the problem.

>>3809691
Makes sense.

I have to pretty much agree with this guy >>3809696 Barring exceptions like people having learning disorders (even though on the internet you can find stories of people trying to learn Japanese even if they have such disorder), all you have to do is seriously try and keep at it. And have clear goals of what you want to accomplish. That's what drives you forward. I found my new goal about a year ago and slowly and surely I'm reaching to it.

>>3807008

Why doesn't someone just translate them?

>>3809706
Because when you get good enough to translate them well, by that point you most likely realized your Japanese skills are better used to play more games by yourself for your own enjoyment.

>>3809706
Because translating/hacking takes a lot of time better spend on playing games.

>>3809708
>>3809706
>>3809709
Professional JP - EN translator here. Close but not quite. The biggest problem is the time it takes to translate in relation to how much one wants to translate. That is, a translator may have like 20-30 games he wants to do, but each one takes so long that done in order they in total take years upon years to finish and free up the space for new projects.

I may want to help a /vr/ TL project, but l already have so damn much to do, there's simply no time. And if I had no projects pn my plate, then I have hundreds of new ones to choose from, such that I'm back to square one, spending years working through then one or two at a time, such that most remain untranslated.

tl;dr too many games, too little time

>>3809725
Couldnt you try like a Capcha service where each one works on one small part?

>>3809731
That's a terrible idea, you'll end up with a terrible mish-mash.

>>3809731
What do you mean, each one? Each translator? The translation business is more, one translator works on multiple projects, than multiple translators work on more projects. Not to mention consistency would be hellish to maintain.

>>3809725
And then you translate a game you always wanted and nobody gives a shit about it. Or even worse they attack you for not translating the game they wanted.

>>3809734
I notice if I google translate a french website it is pretty much purfect, but trying it with japanese or chinese its like "bite the giant frog, SEE if I don't"

>>3809737
Japanese is a highly contextual language which means you often have to extrapolate unspoken topics or what have you. This tends to be extremely difficult for computers to do. Not to mention, Japanese is in it's own unique language family (Japonic) and is thus wildly different from English and other western languages which adds its own challenges (off the top of my head, SVO vs SOV, keigo, kanji, etc)

>>3809746
Subject verb object? doesnt korean share some roots with proto japanese and manchu?

>>3809748
I'm no linguist, so I can't offer that level of detail, I'm just saying that in English for example it's SVO whereas in Japanese it's SOV, thereby making google translate hard to work with from JP to ENG, not that those traits are entirely unique to Japanese.

>>3809746
>and other western languages which adds its own challenges (off the top of my head, SVO vs SOV
SOV doesn't seem rare.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject%E2%80%93object%E2%80%93verb

>>3809751
See above post. Japanese isn't unique as in those qualities only belong to it, just that overall it has many qualities that individually tend to differ from western languages, particularly from English. That is, not every quality is unique, some qualities are shared with some western languages while at the same time others are not.

>>3809753
Western languages such as Latin?

>>3809750
Is it true that the spoken language and written one are not lined up 100% ?
for example my teacher was asked to translate a speech from Japanese to English but she couldn't read it and asked them to read it to her first but they could not reach an exact consensus of what it said

>>3809759
There are two issues. The composition of a word doesn't tell you how it's pronounced and the pronunciation of a word don't tell you how it is written.
Meaning can change depending on that.
For instance 生物 can be read as なまもの and mean something in the lines of raw food. Alternatively it can be read as せいぶつ and refer to living creatures.
せいぶつ however is also the reading of 静物 (still life).

Translating things makes it even harder because you try to force everything into the constraints of another language.

>>3809763
oh wow, Thank you for the explanation.
I think maybe the job of translator is safe for a few more years

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>>3809759
Up to the beginning of the 20th century, the Japanese language used in writing could have its roots traced back to the language used in the peak of Heian period (around the year 1000), so called 文語 - bungo. Compared to this, the spoken Japanese language was much different - its evolution was much faster than the one of written Japanese.

You can observe this in literary works.

Compare for example

遠野物語 (Toono Monogatari) by Yanagida Kunio, originally released in 1910, which is written in bungo
http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/001566/files/52504_49667.html

to

Akutagawa Ryuunosuke's 鼻 (Hana) released in 1916, which is written in "colloquial" language. "Colloquial" here refers to the language people actually spoke at the beginning of 20th century, that is, not the bungo mentioned above, but Japanese similar to then one spoken and written nowadays.
http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/000879/files/42_15228.html

This switch occured with the generational change of writers at the time (Yanagida was born in 1875, Akutagawa was a generation younger, born in 1892) and was based on movements like genbun icchi undou. Search for "言文一致" on this wiki page to see details of that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_writing_system

So yeah, there was period in history when written and spoken Japanese were wildly different.

But I doubt this is what you teacher had in mind, it probably was something like this >>3809763 instead. Was the teacher a native Japanese? Since she couldn't read a Japanese speech I presume not, but then again, if you can't read a speech, should you be teaching Japanese? Then again, I dunno what kind of speech it was and how difficult it was.

Also it's worth nothing than even nowadays there are different styles inside the same modern Japanese. Some words and grammar are more formal and as such more fit to be used in writing, some things are better used in speech, but the same is true for all languages, I'd say.

>>3809706
From a ROM hacker's point of view at least, the format might be simply too convoluted.
I've worked on numerous translations and some games are literally 1 byte = 1 character with banks to spare, while some are real monsters under weird compressions and zero free space. It's hit and miss, really.

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Never ever.

>>3809750
Japanese isn't strickly SOV, it can also be OVS at times or let parts of the sentence implicit, so while you can translate it explicitly, it doesn't flow in the same way as in the original.

>>3809801
Yeah, it's just a vague guideline for the idea that the structure is different.

>>3809706
I've done a few ROM hacks + translations just for fun. It's probably the most difficult thing I've ever done in my life. And it takes an absurd amount of time.

>>3809736
Which games have you translated? If they look cool I'll play them. There's definitely a strong charm to playing a good fan translation.

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>Popular western TCG
>Japan only
I didn't understand before and I still don't understand today.

>>3811029
maybe Dreamcast hacking is as painful as PSX hacking? Does a TOC fixer even exist?

>>3807008
Here's my complete list:

I had it in me to learn Japanese

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Not a huge srpg fan but I always thought wachenroder looked really interesting. Maybe someday I guess.

Bros, I literally just bought some Japanese language cds, listen to them all day at work, at home I study and conduct exercises from a Japanese to English text book. I listen to nothing but J-pop and watch anime exclusively. I feel like I'm slowly absorbing and retaining some Japanese language. Any other suggestions/ advice on learning Japanese would be appreciated, thanks!

>>3809794
if its a mobile game maybe is in hiragana

that shit ain't hard

>>3812792
Hiragana is much more of a pain in the ass. I find 3000+ kanji novels easier than those PC 88 games.

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>>3812840
I'm not on that level yet anon

>>3812685
tae kim's guide

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>>3807092
it takes years of dedication to learn a new vocabulary, grammatical rules, alphabet (or not, in the case of Japanese), and all the cultural shading that gives words more subtle meanings.

i tried Japanese, German, and Spanish. its not hard. just a massive fucking grind.

anyway, here is my contribution. this game is pretty okay, but as a historical piece, it fascinates me. this is one of the few, maybe only, games made by an entirely female staff. when you play it, you can see they didn't have a massive budget, but it is very cute and interesting. I would love to know what the story is.

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>>3812427
how funny, I was just about to post that!

>>3812913
Learning a new script isn't difficult. There's even retro games that require you to do it for immersion.

Vocabulary and the like is something you acquire will reading and listening.

>>3812913
>alphabet (or not, in the case of Japanese)
>not knowing Japanese has two
>in to the trash it goes

>>3813060
The only alphabet significantly used for Japanese is the Latin one.

>>3813063
>katakana and hiragana aren't alphabets
Literally...

>>3813407
They're syllabaries.
Kanji are logogram by the way.

Looking at this thread makes me tempted to try translating one of these, but I have very little free time, and I know zero hacking ;_;

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>>3807008
Tellme anon, why don't you are learning japanese language?

>>>/jp/16601443

https://fuwanovel.net/2013/02/how-to-read-visual-novels-in-japanese-in-2-years-time-or-1-year-if-you-are-fast-%E2%80%95-learn-to-read-through-vn-or-anime/

>>3813463
You could do what I did. Offer to translate at places like romhacking.net and see if anyone who wants to hack a game will partner up with you. I managed to finding a guy who wanted to get into the hacking side of things who was interested in the range game I was at the time, and we managed to finish the hack and release it at the end of last year. We're now working on some other games together, so it's working out.

Just gotta be patient and keep offering your services for things where people can find you and get back to you.

>>3813836
Jesus I suck at typing on my phone.

> range game
same game

>>3813502
>1) Learn 46 Hiragana and 50 Katakana. Use mnemonics. This will take 7 to 21 days.
That's ridiculously long. 7 to 21 hours seems more realistic.

>Step Two 2) Learn 2000 2136 Kanji. This will take 100 to 365 days
That's ridiculous. There's no point in knowing all those.
You'll encounter non-Joyo long before you've met even half of the Joyo. And knowing them tells you little about reading, meaning or vocabulary in practical use.

>>3814121
Yeah, that guide is shit.

>>3813502
>fuwanovel

>>3813407

that is correct, katakana and hiragana are not alphabets.

>>3807114
>super smug badass sunglasses grandpa
>confident alpha dad ready to conquer the universe
>super cool sexy mom casually leaning on you
>massive servant protecting you from all dangers

I envy that confident blue haired cakeboi desu

>>3813416
>>3814239
Very disingenuous to say you don't have to learn an alphabet to learn Japanese without pointing out that you need to learn two syllabaries. 10/tism

>>3814239
>Alphabet
>The set of letters used when writing in a language.
Nigger you need a smacking.

>>3814393
Sometimes the first definition isn't the best.
>A writing system in which letters represent phonemes. (Contrast e.g. logography, a writing system in which each character represents a word, and syllabary, in which each character represents a syllable.)
>A writing system in which there are letters for the consonant and vowel phonemes. (Contrast e.g. abjad.)

>>3814398
Syllabaries are still alphabets. That's like saying that dobermen aren't dogs.

>>3814373
Two syllabaries and over 3000 Chinese characters, actually!

>>3814221
Can we try to compile a guide to learning Japanese and retro games?
I think other guides cover the basics for the language but something about the peculiarities others won't necessarily have to deal with.

Kana only games:
These are commonly encountered on old cartridge based systems and early computers.
Contrary to what you may think they are not beginner friendly. You have to deal with the same vocabulary as other games and there are no kanji to help you deal with homophones or see the grammatical structure.
Obviously they won't let you train kanji either.
Stick to games with simple kanji instead.

>>3814393
hiragana and katakana symbols aren't letters, therefore by your own definition the kana syllabaries are not alphabets.

>>3814373
there's two different guys here, I'm not the original guy and I don't know or care what point he was trying to make. I just jumped in to clarify the admittedly pedantic point that the native Japanese writing system has no alphabet associated with it. It has two syllabaries plus the set of kanji. These are the definitions created and accepted by linguists. If you don't accept the defintions there's no further argument to be made here with me since definitions aren't provable, they're just commonly accepted terminology. If you feel strongly that hiragana and katakana should be considered alphabets you'll need to go write and publish a paper explaining why the definition of the terminology should be adjusted.

At any rate, I said it was pedantic but there are some important practical reasons to make the distinction between alphabet and syllabary. For a language with c consonants and n vowels, a written language using an alphabet will only need c + n symbols, whereas a syllabary will need cn symbols. Obviously this is more work to memorize (especially since it's multiplied by 2 for Japanese), but it helps with pronunciation since each symbol has a set pronunciation.

>>3814452
>but it helps with pronunciation since each symbol has a set pronunciation.
So does IPA.

>>3814425
>tens of thousands is >3000
Genius!

>hurr everyone is a NEET living in their moms basement with all the free time in the world to learn japanese by themselves

sorry to break this to you guys but this is far from being truth, specially here in /vr/

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>>3814510
You're likely never going to learn that many. Even 3000 is more of a milestone than a practical requirement.

>>3814512
Yes you fucking retard, I'm sure the people who browse a video game imageboard don't have "all the free time in the world" aka a couple hours a day. Also, who are you quoting?

>>3814527
>I'm sure the people who browse a video game imageboard don't have "all the free time in the world" aka a couple hours a day

I don't. Shitposting 4chan requires little time and attention, and i can do it effortlessly from my work, even, just by alt+tabbing. Studying a foreign language requires concentration and peace.

Looks like i touched a nerve though, basement whale.

>>3814538
Oh, so you do have time, what you lack is tenacity. Figures.

>>3814543
Suck a dick dumb shit

>>3809657
While this guide is not going to be enough to teach you these skills, it will give you an idea of how to go about acquiring them.

Because every time I come to start learning jap, I get some bullshit answer like this. Instead of START HERE BECAUSE...

Learning a language doesn't have to be convoluted process.

>>3814523
Delicious blue.

>>3814523
3000 which is commonly cited is the estimate for how much someone needs to be able to read a japanese newspaper. Games which are typically intended for children will probably use far less than that.

>>3814609
There are no one-size-fits-all solutions when it comes to language learning, especially for self-learners. That disclaimer refers to the fact that the DJT guide doesn't teach you any Japanese, it only explains the basics of how the language works, what you need to do and which resources to use.

>>3814523
I get by with about 5000. But I am aware that there are a lot more.

>>3814649
I know you want to sound harcore, but how about actually checking before making such claims?

>>3813502
I can't pick a kanji learning method. Kanjidamage makes sense to me, but the guides I find here on 4chan say its bad, but they also say its good at the same time. Heisig method just seems like it would take way too long before I could start playing stuff. I basically defeat myself before I even start because I can't pick a method I want to stick with.

>>3815076
Either learn kanji from words or use Kodansha Kanji Learner's Course.

>>3814746
Not the anon you're replying to but I've seen lower numbers given and in my experience that sounds about right. By the time I learned 500 characters I was able to work my way through things like beep that didn't have furigana over all the kanji without pulling out the dictionary much. By the time I'd learned 2000 I was able to read chinese newspapers the same way.

>>3815076
I used workbooks that used mnemonics but designed for kids instead of le edgy edgemeisters. I can say that method worked incredibly well for me. Your mileage may vary.

>>3814609
Start with the kana. They will teach you the sounds the language uses.
All kanji and grammar learning is going to assume you know your kana.

Katakana alone can already help you decipher a lot of titles, menus. names and the like since it is used for foreign and foreign sounding words.

ah, the chldhood dreams of learning weeaboa.

>>3815273
Replaced by a very adult laziness to actually do it.

>>3814512
You're free not to play these games.

>>3815213
Katakana gets you through 90% of everything that's not a text heavy RPG. My youngest kid learned it in a few days. Absolutely the best ROI when it comes to learning moon.

>>3814523
You know someone doesn't know japanese when they obsess over counting kanji. Anyone that actually reads japanese for more than a few weeks will realize that kanji is such a big meme that it doesn't matter at all unless you're trying to learn a test. Kanji are just an orthography, and learning them doesn't teach you what words mean or say, so it doesn't even matter. They're not even japanese! Just like learn japanese. Kanji are a spook and hell is misinformation. Radical freedom.

>>3815948
>Radical freedom.
Huh, long time no see.

>>3815960
I'm still around, /jp/ just doesn't respond well to obvious non-otaku memes.

I'm translating a game as I play it on youtube through subtitles.
It's quite entry tier level japanese though, not that hard.

>>3815948
It's easier to count how many kanji I know than how many words.
But if I encounter a kanji or word I don't know I can easily look it up and add it to my vocabulary so in the end both don't matter until I get overwhelmed.

Would learning Kana then immediately trying to play games be a good way to learn? It would be a slog, but I figured I could just build my vocab from games, and take note of the kanji/kanji compounds I encounter while studying grammar. I just want to start enjoying things asap.

>>3816181
Personally I would advise at least learning some basic vocabulary first.

>>3816416
What would consist a "basic vocabulary" after learning hira/kana?

>>3816428
Enough that you can pick up a simple children's manga and not feel lost, so maybe 1000-2000 words.

>>3816445
i will have children of my own by the time i learn two alphabets and 2000 kanji

>>3816458
You most definitely won't, unless you're already married and planning to have kids in the very near future. That takes 3 or 4 months at most. Also, words =/= kanji.

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>>3809767
Japanese is ridiculous... everything is understood out of context, which means that it's the exact same words used for "he's been murdered" and "I murdered him", depending on how formal you want to be.

On the subject of the thread, I'd love to see some general Saturn translations, like the Slayers games. Now that the flash card is coming, that's gonna happen, right?

>>3816458
>alphabets
Uh oh. You're liable trigger someone with that kind of talk
As >>3816501 pointed out words aren't kanji. If you're only reading baby stuff or want basic verbal communication skills just learning a few words and the simplest way they're written shouldn't take you that long.

>>3816507
Nah. You've just been watching shit dubs or subs or whatever.

>>3816428
Get the Core2000 set for Anki.
That should provide a solid foundation to which you can add your own acquired vocabulary.

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I want SMT If... translated.
But if I can play Majin Tensei, maybe If... wont be so bad

>>3814353
>

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>>3816507
I was watching Slayers (for the first time)... Exactly now.

How long does it take to learn Japanese well enough to read it?

>>3817230
That's going to depend on the person and what he's trying to read. Probably between a few weeks and a year.
Don't think too much about how long it will take and get going.

>>3817253
>Probably between a few weeks and a year.
Bullshit, no one starts reading japanese well enough from zero in "a few weeks", not even with tutoring and classes every day a week, let alone by themselves using a stupid card program

>>3817326
A lot of people don't start from zero.
And what you are trying to read is of great importance.

>>3817230
Depends. You can start reading easy shit in a couple of weeks to months, but more complicated stuff could take years.

>>3817340
knowing a few japanese 'words' from anime and gccx (which is the case for 99% of people here wanting to learn japanese) is starting from zero alright

and "well enough to read it" implies well enough to actually get something randomly and understanding it instead of cherrypicking books for children in preschool to say "woah i can read japanese now!"

>>3817375
If you watched subbed anime for over a decade you'll know more than just a few words.

Why would you read something random? People here are likely interested about games and things like SFC games are basically for elementary school children.
Nobody is going to jump into wall of text visual novels full of technical vocabulary.

>>3817381
many people indeed want to learn japanese to play never localized visual novels, rpgs and all those eroges from pc88/98 though

Is there something illegal about running a Kickstarter to pay people to translate any of these games?

>>3817387
>running a Kickstarter
yes
you can donate via paypal or patreon though

What i don't get about people who translate stuff is that when they release patches, they do it for the niche games they like instead of going for highly wanted stuff, and then they get mad for not receiving enough attention and quit it

You know how to read japanese, you don't need to translate your obscure game nobody heard about. If you really want to be a service to the community you pick up a project people are expecting to be translated, if you don't, you're just doing it for yourself and for the other five people in the world that like the same game as you, so don't expect showers of praise and get buttblasted when people don't put your project on the news or something.

>>3817387
It's not illegal, people have done it.
You only need to properly deal with the license owners.
Don't expect big interest though.

>>3817416
>You only need to properly deal with the license owners.
Which would cost way more than you would ever make with your kickstarter multiplied by one hundred, btw

>>3817381
>>If you watched subbed anime for over a decade you'll know more than just a few words.
You're severely overestimating the amount you've actually grasped. Sure, you'll know a few set phrases, but I'd say a decade of watching left me with a vocab of somewhere between 500 and 1000 words, and most of them were pretty murky in meaning.

You can blitz past that in a month of studying.

>>3817425
You don't need to fully grasp them. Even knowing that such a word exists is already a boon.

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>>3817383
It's good to have such goals and use them to check your progress but you will probably get better results by starting with something simple to get used to things than by running against the wall.

RPGs are fine, they give you moderate amounts of text and require some comprehension.
Eroge are intended for mature players and therefore use more and more complex kanji.
PC98 actually has advantages since the high resolution text means you don't have to deal with blobs but for entry level material it shouldn't make a big difference.
PC88 on the other hand is challenging due to the halved resolution.


I actually played Chaos Angels as one of my first games. Took me about 6 months to get there.

If you intend on learning Japanese, don't worry so much about how long it will take.
Just get it started, and study when you can. You'll make progress. Maybe fast, maybe slow, but you'll learn it.
Don't be surprised by the people who go "oh you can learn it in 6 months to a year". Those people are either full of bullshit or people who can dedicate two hours every single day every day for a year.
Just get it started, that's the main goal.

Too bad no real groups ever really work on PC-98 games specifically. There's like, one maybe.

>>3817574
Personally my goals are low right now. I'm fine with being able to play a game even if it means I'm looking something up every other minute.

>>3818059
Which is perfectly fine.
Learn Hiragana and Katakana and get yourself a game with no kanji (maybe NES or GB) or even better, get a RPG that you already know and have played all the way through. That way you'll have context and you'll know where to go and what to do. But even so, try to translate and read all of it.

>>3818251
> get yourself a game with no kanji
For what purpose? You'll get plenty of kana experience without wading through that crap.

>try to translate and read all of it.
No. Try to comprehend it.

>>3818270
You're trying to get someone who knows no kanji and throw him into a game like what? Romance of the Three Kingdoms?
Start with hiragana and katakana and the chances of you getting discouraged are lower.

>>3818284
Don't play retro games before starting on kanji. Read stuff with furigana instead if. Maybe some related manga or manual.
Games without kanji are harder to read than games with (simple) kanji.

>>3818251
Games without kanji still expect you to know Jap words. If you don't even know jap words you're going to be just as lost with or without kanji.

So I started learning japanese, but the site I'm using it teaching Katakana, Hiragana, and Kanji all together, so I don't really have them all separate in my mind.
That's not going to fuck me over, is it?

>>3818675
I don't think it will.

Besides you can differentiate between the 3 easily enough, it's not hard.

>>3818708
Cool.
Right now I honestly couldn't tell the difference though.
I'm at like 2 Kanji, 13 Katanana, and 13 Hirigana

>>3818715
Never ever translated.

Seriously the period since the announcement of the project till now is more than enough time to learn (at least basic and functional) Japanese.

>>3818713
How do you learn Kanji without knowing the rest? Do they only teach the kanji with pronunciations in the syllables you already know?
Sounds like an odd approach since you can normally quickly finish the syllabaries.

>>3818708
There's a few tricky cases ヵ and 力 that can be confusing for beginners. After a while you will see the differences and realize that they won't appear in the same context.

>>3819972
Since he's posting with what seems to be knowledge of the full English alphabet I'm guessing he's more than capable of pronouncing all the required syllables.
Also, knowing the pronunciation isn't required to read Kanji. Do you think deaf people can't read or something? lol

>>3820284
English speakers tend to have trouble with Japanese (or pretty much any other) pronunciation.
Do you mean they teach Kanji readings with Rômazi? That's absurd.

Translations thread always end up like this don't they?
A bunch of people thinking they know exactly the best way to learn japanese.

>>3820467
And never any actual talk about translations. I'm fine with people learning, but one of these days we can talk about the games without this derailing.

>>3820625
Hey, I'm learning so I can translate X for the gameboy, and it's manual.

Problem is, I still need to learn.

>>3819972
>How do you learn Kanji without knowing the rest? Do they only teach the kanji with pronunciations in the syllables you already know?
>Sounds like an odd approach since you can normally quickly finish the syllabaries.
Yes, that's correct.

>>3820284
I'm totally fucking up pronunciations right now. I'm trying to get better, but my main goal is just to read.

>>3820296
It's both. It shows the pronunciation in katakana/hirigana, and then also asks me to translate into romanji on occasion.

>>3820296
You mean they accidentally on purpose say shit like Valis instead or Varis?
What exactly are Kanji readings? Is Kanji going to meet a tall dark stranger?
Yeah, it's totally absurd that they should teach Chinese characters in anything other than Japanese. kek*3

>>3820467
True. There's a bunch of reasons for this. Some legit, some not so much. There are different ways to learn. Some work better for some people. Many people aren't aware of this fact. There are different goals. Like the guys I replied to above. He's obviously flabbergasted that someone who just wants to be able to read text in Japanese video games just wants to read text Japanese video games. Absurd!. His goal would seem to be to immerse himself fully in superior Japanese language and culture and look down his nose at anyone who doesn't want to same.

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Can we mitigate the pissing contest for once? Getting back on track:

Really excited for Tengai Makyou Zero. It's the only one save for some ports that I haven't played and I'm excited to play it for the first time in English. Tom's other work makes me feel he's a very reliable translator so it may become my favorite.

>>3820467
I don't think there is a one single approach that's best for everybody. Like some people prefer Heisig and others use a vocabulary based approach to kanji.
The one >>3818675 mentions just sounds a bit unorthodox but if it works for him then it's fine. It doesn't seem downright detrimental either.

>>3820625
It's hardly derailing, Op himself talked about it. There simply is a lot more to talk about learning Japanese than posting games nobody even played.
We tried to have dedicated threads about learning but they end up getting deleted without apparent reason.
https://warosu.org/vr/thread/S3708790

>>3820920
>What exactly are Kanji readings?
There are normally two readings, the Chinese/On reading and the Japanese/Kun reading. Sometimes these have variations or there are other readings, furthermore compounds can have readings with no apparent basis in the kanji.

>>3821098
Haven't they given up?
Between all the compression and kanji jokes the game seems untranslatable. In English it would be just another DQ clone with the gimmick of a real time clock.

>>3807008
All of KOEI's business sims (Leading Company, Top Management) and all the stock trading sims on NES (The Money Game, et. al.)

>>3809657
What I wonder is why some people are so intensely hostile towards anyone who has no interest in learning Japanese.

>>3809696
>Threads and posts demanding that shit gets translated are the problem.

I don't recall ever seeing those on this board. Plenty of threads get shit-posted into oblivion by the "just learn Japanese" crowd, though.

>>3821173
They've actually made a shit ton of progress. Tom is working with DDSTrans and another graphics hacker at the moment and they've cleared up a ton of the issues that were blocking the hack from surfacing. They've got an RHDN thread for status updates and the like, but they're mostly talking about how to advertise the game and let people know it exists.

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,23162.0.html

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>>3821182
What about Koei's dog simulation game for the PC-98 called Super Dog World?

>>3821220
So Byuu was so infatuated by the game that he changed the name of his emulator but he can't hack it?
If Byuu can't do it, nobody can.

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>>3807008
Made by Game Freak in 1997. Criminally underrated.

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>>3821220
I see they made progress in making the game more European.

>>3821503
Yeah I wasn't a fan of that shit. The game is supposed to be Eastern, let the signs stay kanji.

>>3821938
Would you also prefer them to keep the original puns instead of replacing them with their own jokes?

>>3822141
Yeah. With a 100 page translator's notes pdf included.

>>3822141
That part should be localized a bit, honestly. But the signs? Really?

So, this is what I'm using to learn, for now.
What do you guys think?

https://elon.io/learn-japanese/lesson/kanji-1

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>>3822239
>We use a romanization that is closer to the Japanese Nihon-shiki romanization system. The reason we do this is that is more regular and has a one-to-one relation to the kana systems.
They should value consistency and call it Nihon-siki.
I'm more of a Kunrei guy myself.

But at this point it would make sense to ditch Romanizations and use Japanese input (which can be done via romanized inputs).

All in all it seems like a standard grammar course.